The Mama Judy and Jill Podcast

Episode 18: Understanding Yourself - The First Step to Creative Growth

• Jill Gottenstrater and Judy George • Episode 18

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In this episode, we dive into an essential part of the artistic process – self-understanding. Mama Judy and I share our personal stories and lend insights on how traits like procrastination, laziness, a get-it-done mindset can greatly influence the creative process.

We also chat about how the artistic medium you choose might be influenced by your personal preferences. You'll learn how comfort with certain mediums can guide your choice and influence the work you create. 

We also explore how asking the right questions can help you understand your artistic practices better. For a list of the questions Mama Judy suggested you ponder, click here.

We hope you enjoy!

We mentioned a few episodes during our chat today. Here are the links:
Watch episode 17 with artists Bee Sieburg and Molly Courcelle. 
Listen here to episode 15 on the power of commitment to your art.
Listen to episode 12 here and episode 13 here where we talk about the power of accountability to be able to create art consistently. 

If you'd prefer to watch this podcast, you can find us over on our YouTube page (The Mama Judy & Jill Podcast).

We'd LOVE to hear from you! Click here to send us your thoughts and ideas for a future episode.

Send us a direct message on Instagram:
>> Mama Judy on Instagram
>>Jill on Instagram


Jill:

Oh good, you made it. We are so glad you're here. Welcome to the Mama Judy and Jill podcast, an intergenerational chat about life, art and the creative process. I'm your host, jill, and joining me is my wonderful co-host and bonus mom, mama Judy. Let's get started. Hi friends, thanks for joining us again today. We are so happy to have you here, either listening or watching on YouTube. Hey, mama Judy.

Judy:

Hey Jill, how's it at your end of the world today? It?

Jill:

is good. It is good in Asheville, north Carolina. We're kind of in the 60s here, which has been nice, crisp fall weather, which I am loving. How about you? Oh?

Judy:

I'm still in Sedona for another week and it is still high 80s here, because of course, this is a desert, but I can hardly wait for fall. I envy everybody that is starting into fall, my favorite time of the year. Yes, it's wonderful. Hey, jill, I don't want to get us too far off track, but I have a question for you what kind of an artist are you?

Jill:

I would say I'm a slow stitcher, maybe slash. Mixed media artist.

Judy:

Okay, that's a good answer, but it didn't answer my question. Okay, what you told me when I asked your question which, trust me, I've done the same thing, because I think most people answer with what kind of an art they do, what medium Someone asked me that I'll probably say I'm a mixed media journal artist. Okay, but what I really meant by that question is do you understand yourself enough to know how you, as a person, influence your art and how you can use self-knowledge to harness your artistic energies?

Jill:

Wow. Well, first of all, even though we're on this podcast and I knew we were going to talk something about this no, I don't know how to do that. Please teach me how to do that, because it sounds very compelling. My first thought when you said that was like oh, I'm a joyful person, so joyful art, that kind of thing.

Judy:

But the way that you just put it feels very powerful, and I think it is too Jill, and I'll tell you where the idea hit me. And then, because I am a person that does a lot of self-introspection, it just kept growing. But in our last episode with Bea and Molly, there was something we asked. I think it was. We asked them both, but it was Molly's response that sparked in me the idea that we, if we know who we are as artists, what makes us happy, what draws us in, we can then translate that to our art. And, on the other hand, if we don't know who we are, if we have no self-understanding, we're just going to kind of bumble along. Now, a lot of people won't even have given this some thought, but I challenge everybody out there listening to stop and think for a minute what kind of an artist are you? And of course, you and I are going to give examples, because that's how, that's who we've got, you and me. And so I'm going to talk about a self-revelation in my own art.

Judy:

I realized, for example, that I love procrastination. When I have an art project or something. I don't like sitting down and accomplishing goals per day. Now, I might do art every day, but I don't like having to meet a benchmark, whether I've said it or somebody else. I've known this about myself for a long time, even when I was doing papers in school. I'd be that person staying up to the last minute to get it done, but I would get it done and I would get it done very well. Procrastination, for me, is not something I feel guilty about, but I need to understand that it is part of who I am and, yes, it does influence some of my artistic energies and what I'm.

Jill:

Okay, let me just ask a quick question on that. Sure Okay. So when you're saying you like to procrastinate, let's just say because you do sell some of your journals and sold on Etsy over the years. So of course, if you know someone is waiting on a journal, they've said, oh, I want to buy one. That is like you have a commission and so you have a date or a deadline, right, so you could still procrastinate as long as it gets done. But how does this work when it's just your own journals, or are you ultimately creating most of your stuff to eventually put on Etsy? You?

Judy:

know, as it turns out. Up to this point, most of the things have gone on Etsy because part of my process is sharing them. But the thing that I've realized on procrastination for me is that let's say that I run across an artist that I just love their style and I would like to develop techniques like that person's style, and I download and buy all the classes they have available Because I procrastinate. It might be two years before I get around to taking those classes. Honest to God, I have some out there that I bought over two years ago, and as I was sitting there looking at them and thinking about procrastination, I realized allowing myself to procrastinate sometimes holds me back. I have not learned those new techniques. I have not practiced what I want to. It's still sitting out there in procrastination. I'll get to it someday. So procrastination can be something that will hold us back.

Judy:

But if I didn't think about that and know that about myself, I would not then turn to myself and say, as I did this last week okay, kiddo, you've got a lot of really good material out there. Did you buy it just to leave it or are you actually going to use it? And I sat down and I didn't put goals on it, but I made a commitment to myself, which we talked about in another one. So this is a commitment to me. I have these classes and I'm going to spend X number of time every week on these classes. But if I hadn't thought about it, they'd probably still be sitting out there and I would think about them and I'd just go. Oh well, one of these days I'll get around to them. That's just one tiny example of how self understanding can either hinder or support our artistic energies. I was not supporting my artistic energies.

Jill:

Okay, well, let me ask you another question. I think anyone can listening, could plug in whatever they need to, for this example, you know if they're not a creator. But my question for you on that follow up is you said then you decided to make a commitment to yourself. Do you know yourself as an artist that once you make a commitment to yourself that you will hold yourself to it?

Judy:

Yes, because I've thought about this enough and I understand that for me as an artist, there are times when my procrastination is no big deal. There's nothing that is keeping me from. But what I realized with this was I really am keeping myself from growing If I don't get those classes out and if I don't use them. I'm not going to grow through the techniques that I will learn in those classes, and I think enough of myself that I want to now invest time in doing that.

Jill:

Okay so, let's say, someone was listening, though, and they said, okay, great, I'm also a procrastinator. However, even if I told myself I'm gonna make a commitment, I'm gonna put in two hours a week to watch the videos and stuff or do the exercises, but I just know myself, I can't hold a commitment to myself. I'll commit to anybody else, like we talked on that other episode, but would that mean that that type of person should? Then what do they do? Commission? Find somebody? To buy something from them.

Judy:

They get an accountability partner. Okay, yeah, right, you know we've talked about accountability partners, and maybe accountability partner isn't quite the right word, but it's someone that you trust, that you can. They will make sure that you are going to stay on what you say you're going to do. So I would do that and, believe me, there was one time in my life in my personal self understanding that I would have needed that person. But now I've done enough introspection to know I am my own roadblock. And it's not even about money and investing in the class. Let me ask you a question that's probably the opposite answer. You just got done taking the class. Did you start that class right after you bought it?

Jill:

Yes, and at once, Because I was so excited to learn Okay, I love learning new things. I saw something that was being created by the instructor that I just felt like it would bring me so much joy to create and some healing, and so I dove right in and, as videos were released, I was watching those immediately.

Judy:

So why do you suppose you are more of a dive in person than I am?

Jill:

Well, I think one reason could be that you are a much more seasoned artist. You have a lot of experience in your life. I don't, so there is a lot more for me to learn. I mean that maybe that's true or not, but I feel like I'm just doing my little stitching stuff, and so I feel like the whole world is open to me, and so I'm at this place where I want to learn more, and I feel like even for the next five years, I could feel that way.

Judy:

Okay, so am I going to be correct in assessing that when you were in college, you would not have been up late the night before the paper was due with me?

Jill:

No, except for calculus, because I couldn't get it in my head.

Judy:

But, and you know, each personality is different. You and I are just two examples, and human beings are very complex, so I'm not trying to put us into categories, but understanding your characteristics goes such a long way in not just in life, but in handling all kinds of things. And before we go on to another question, I want to read a quote that I just loved by the artist Henri Matisse. We need to view ourselves with the same curiosity and openness with which we study a tree, and what I get from that is to Matisse.

Judy:

It was just as important to know yourself as it was any subject that you're going to paint or draw or stitch, and there are ways to, if you've never really thought about yourself, given an honest assessment because, remember, this is between you and you. You don't have to share this if you find something you're uncomfortable with. I mean, I was for a long time uncomfortable with procrastinating, but I realized how it fit into my personality, how it held me back, how I can use it in the future. So you can ask yourselves a series of questions as you go around throughout the day and you actually use the word. That could be one of the questions what brings you joy?

Jill:

Feeling the fabric in my hands, creating something pretty, just spending time in a meditative process for me.

Judy:

Well, two thoughts With you. The first thing you said was feeling the fabric. So right there, that tells me that you chose the stitching in part because you love fabrics. I probably chose mixed media because I like the Jack Rabbit approach. I don't have to try to make things look representational. They can be abstract. You can use your hands, you can get there. It's very important for me and I've learned this about myself through examining different things. I've tried I have to use these guides, for example.

Jill:

I've learned that over the listener podcast. Oh, I'm rubbing your fingers. In case you're not on YouTube, use your fingers.

Judy:

I have to use my fingers and my hands. If I have learned over time by just observing how I feel when I pick up a particular medium, what resonates with me, not just the visual. But if I hold a paintbrush, for example, you would think that that is using your hands, but holding a paintbrush to me is very foreign. I've had to learn to be comfortable with holding and I'm putting out my fingers about eight, nine inches long a long paintbrush that is between me and the canvas or the paper. So it's very important.

Judy:

My understanding of myself, knowing that I need to be able to get right to my materials with my fingers, has helped me well. I don't know if it's helping, it's guided me to the mediums that I like to use the best. When I'm sitting at a table with spray bottles or paints and glues, my hands are in the middle of them. When I am practicing new painting techniques, I'm a foot, foot and a half, two feet away from them. That's not the same feel to me. So just understanding that type of thing has helped delineate down where I will place my artistic energies, wow.

Jill:

And that made me think of one of the things I think I like about the stitching is that I can sit in a cozy chair and stitch. I really like to feel comfortable and cozy and be able to do it in multiple places, so meaning you could be upstairs or in your living room or sitting in another chair. But that's important to me, I realize just feeling cozy while I'm doing it.

Judy:

That then will draw you to an artistic medium that allows you to do that.

Judy:

I'm guessing, just like me holding the paintbrush, if you were standing in front of an easel with a paintbrush, even if you thought you wanted to paint, it would not feel the way you wanted to feel.

Judy:

So in our two examples, what people can take away from is that the artistic medium that we choose to focus our energies on is far more than just the materials themselves. It's part of who we are, what we want out of the experience, and any question that you can ask yourself as you go through the day will help you with that understanding. And if you come across something that's like an epiphany and you can go oh God, that's right, you know, I hadn't thought about that then you can see how maybe that particular thing relates to your art practice. And I'll ask another pretty glaring question on it. When you come up against something else and these questions I send out to the entire audience also, but when you come up against something new or something you don't know how to do the way you want to I almost used the bad word, correctly, right that, the way you want to what do you do at that point?

Jill:

I usually go to YouTube or look in a book.

Judy:

Okay. So you go find the answer yes, okay. And then there's another self revelation that I've realized over time I quit.

Jill:

Oh, are you sure, mama Judy? I would think that you would first try different things and just be creative, like I don't see you going to YouTube necessarily, but it seems like you would try things first, is that not true?

Judy:

Not necessarily.

Judy:

Okay, remember when I said you learn these things about yourself. You don't think about you go. Oh my well, that's interesting. I am probably and these again, these are my labels. These are not anything you go to a book and find, but I would call myself a lazy artist up to this point, and what I mean by that is I have always gravitated to what is easy for me and I've been successful enough in those that I have never really put out the effort to get beyond the uncomfortable feeling, the roadblock, whatever you want to call it. But yet I never thought about that. I just did what I thought I liked to do, which obviously is part of it. But trust me when I say a big part of it is I don't want to put in the hard work. Now, if you just found that out about yourself let's say that that was your self revelation what would you do with that in relationship to your art?

Jill:

Well, when you said that while I'll go out and look if it's a stitch, that I go look and there are too many pieces, I'm getting confused, I'm like, forget it, I don't care. I don't really care to do that one anymore and I'll move on to an easier one. So I think I am lazy in some ways as well, but I'm okay with that. Like I'll go because I want this to be easy for me. I want to grow, but I want this to be easy for me. I don't want to be stressed out gritting my teeth as I'm doing my art.

Judy:

People as they walk by. That's a very good point. And any of this that we learn about ourselves. You then are the master of your life, in that you then can choose how to use it.

Judy:

What I have chosen, realizing over time all of these things about myself, I sat down, I had this you know me myself and I talk where I looked at it seriously and said what is it you really want to do with your art and do you really truly want to grow in this direction? And so what I've done just like with the procrastination and getting out the classes is I have made a commitment to myself. I won't turn and run at the first hint of difficulty and I'm going to give myself a gold star you know, like you did gotten the first grade when you did something good, because all this week I have been following a person that does little short videos on their technique and boy, I have kept after it, even when I just really didn't want to be there. Because let me go to a human aspect there's only two reasons that human beings make any decision we either move towards pleasure or we move away from pain.

Judy:

Now, in my art practice, that pain is the uncomfortable feeling that I feel when I can't achieve what that person that's been doing it 40 years. So I want to move away from that pain. It's a psychological, emotional turmoil within when you get to that situation and I want to move beyond it. Two choices work in the road quit or continue on. Normally I would quit. Now I am continuing on and this does not mean that a year from now anybody will look at my work and my journals if I'm still doing them and say, oh look, I see where she picked up some new techniques. It is more about me and the development of my entire creative energies, or entire creative energies, I think.

Judy:

I got that out right Right now I kind of put myself in a box and I'm very happy and very comfortable. But if we look at something, if we look at a person and say man and I'm going to again reference Bea and Molly in the background of our last YouTube session, you could see their beautiful different painting styles and I know you were going to attach their information so people can see their work. And I looked at that and thought I would like to be able to do something more in line with that.

Jill:

The Molly one abstract yes, because I love abstract Right. And, by the way, listeners, that is episode 17 that you can check out. So we interviewed two artists named Bea and Molly, mother and daughter duo. So check that out if you haven't heard it yet.

Judy:

Yes, and check out their work too, yes. So again, self-assessment, self-understanding. The more you understand any subject, the better off you are, you're better informed. Well, like Matisse said, we need to study ourselves as much as we do that tree we're going to go out and paint because it can guide us, strengthen us, help us overcome areas, even overcoming fears. If I know what's blocking me and it is a fear and I am aware of it and honest self-awareness, then I can move beyond it.

Jill:

Right, okay, so is there another question or two that might be helpful for other people, including us, to think about, as they're having these self-reflective times to understand this more? Can you think of another good question that might pull something out from us? If people don't?

Judy:

mind that I'm going to look down because I'm reading off my iPhone. Here are some that I came across and, as I've been thinking about myself, I've written down. What do I like about creating? What stresses me about my creative practice? Why do I really want to create? That's a question that came from Molly. When we asked them why they created, Molly gave just a phenomenal reason on why she was compelled to create. I think we all will use the phrase, similar phrase like oh, I just have a need to. I hear that quite often and I understand that. But beyond that, what is it you really like about creating? Why do you do it? What did I love about the creating process as a child? Yeah, Now do I still have that in my practice?

Jill:

Ooh, that's a good one too, because just on our last podcast with Bea and Molly, another one, bea, who's the mother of the mother daughter duo artist, bea, said that she remembers she has a painting in her studio and she remembers painting that at age 10. And she said I remember what. I think. She said something like. I remember what it felt like and how happy I felt creating that. She said I feel the exact same thing today and she is in her late 70s.

Judy:

Yes, Bea still has the childlike enthusiasm for her painting that she did when she was 10 years old. Yes, and if you ask yourself that and the answer is no, I don't, then if you really want to, you can bring that element that you remember back deliberately back into your practice. So, what brings me deep joy? Do I like structure or am I more unstructured? And structure can be anything between how we approach our workspace. What kinds of art do we do? Is it more structured? Is it abstract, which is a little more unstructured? And here's mine that we talked about already.

Judy:

Do I procrastinate or do I need to reach a daily goal? Do I give up easily or do I stick with something that is uncomfortable? Are there any fears that keep me from creating something I want? And my last one, that I really like, that I I'd like to you know, tell you that I'm perfect and I do this all the time, but I have to keep going back to it.

Judy:

Do I have a mindful practice? Do I sit down and am I present at that time, in the moment, with a mindful approach to what I'm doing? Do I truly feel the emotions of what I'm going through when I create? Do I bring in extra sensory things to the experience I think a mindful practice is a beautiful practice. Now, I don't want to confuse people when someone says I just kind of sit down, like you use the word meditate, that's also mindful because you're focusing on what's in front of you. So all of that list of questions, and if our listeners want more, there are more that I can provide, but I think you can come up with your own. And the most important thing is to just take the time to figure out who you are as an artist, as a human being, I should say who you are as a human being, and how then that knowledge relates to your art practice and work with both your strengths. What are your creative strengths? What are your creative weaknesses?

Jill:

Well, I think this exercise is going to be very important to a lot of people. I am actually going to go back and re-listen to this so that I can think about this, because I have not been very introspective about this. I'm really interested in doing that as well and to our listeners. I will also some of the things that Mama Judy read out and listed out. I'm going to go ahead and just put those in the show notes and on the different places where you'll see this on YouTube and stuff, so that you can obviously listen. But if you want to just sit down and really think about those for yourselves, you can have that and I'll just have them written out there like that.

Judy:

Perfect. And just one last thing, just kind of summarizing for everybody out there. Like you said, it's the full spectrum. Some people have done a lot of introspection, some not. It's important to understand your art and you are your art. That's where it comes from. It comes from within you, and the more you understand about both, the better. Whatever that word means. Better, better can be. You know, maybe you that stitch that you said you didn't want to do because it was too complicated, maybe you'll go back at some point and try it out, master, that's a step in the improvement. So it all leads into helping us have a better artistic practice.

Jill:

Well, this has just been. I feel like a masterclass today, mama Judy.

Judy:

Sometimes I can't shut my brain off.

Jill:

Thank you. This really has been helpful. So we hope, obviously, that this will be helpful to you as the listeners, and we'd love to hear from you. As we always say, I would also ask that, if you like this podcast or the YouTube page, if you would share it with a friend or two to help us to continue to spread the awareness of our podcast, and we love having new listeners. So we would really appreciate that, and yeah, yes, we would.

Judy:

And, Jill, I just want to reaffirm what you said. I go out to YouTube and some of the comments I've received on Instagram and every one of them is just so important to us. You know, we're kind of like we have mentioned before. We're in this little vacuum of you and I out there just having a conversation on things that are important to us and we hope they're important to others as well. So when we get that feedback, it all, be honest, it's kind of like a whole good. It's a validation, friends, and we all need that occasionally.

Jill:

Yes, and Mama Judy, by the way, being caught in a vacuum with anyone. I would have no one else but she to be stuck in a vacuum with.

Judy:

We can be stuck on that desert island together. Just bring your art supplies.

Jill:

Yes, we could use coconuts and like dye dying, that's right.

Judy:

Tom Hanks and his ball that he made would have nothing on us.

Jill:

Yes, All right, everyone, until next week. We look forward to being with you again next week and thanks again for tuning in. Yes, all right, mama Judy, I'll see you soon, love you. Love you too, bye.