The Mama Judy and Jill Podcast
Welcome to the place where we, Mama Judy (bonus mom) and Jill (bonus daughter), have conversations all about art and the creative process.
We chat about finding inspiration for artistic expression, conquering the hurdles that hinder creativity, and empowering the creative spirit.
Along the way, we share techniques, tips, and stories from our experiences with fiber arts, mixed media, hand stitching, painting, and MORE!
Our goal is for you, our listener, to walk away inspired to create (whatever creating looks like to you).
Whether a seasoned artist or someone just starting out, we look forward to you tuning into the podcast each week.
Questions or podcast topic suggestions? We'd LOVE to hear from you!
Email us at podcast@jillgottenstater.com
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The Mama Judy and Jill Podcast
#29: Embracing Death in the Creative Process to Let Something New In
In this episode, we talk about the transformative power of 'death' within the realm of creativity. Join Mama Judy and I as we explore the concept of 'death' not as a literal end but as a metaphorical passage - the conclusion of one artistic endeavor and the beginning (or birth) of another.
Throughout an artists journey, there will be small deaths that present themselves in the creative process. The death of an idea or a vision... the death or ending of a project...
Instead of thinking of this in a depressing way, we encourage you to see death as a transformation in creativity.
Join us!
Resources mentioned in this episode:
Sewing Peace Project
Book: Wild Ideas: Creativity From the Inside Out by Cathy Wild
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Oh good, you made it. We are so glad you're here. Welcome to the Mama Judy and Jill podcast, an intergenerational chat about life, art and the creative process. I'm your host, jill, and joining me is my wonderful co-host and bonus mom, mama Judy. Let's get started. Hi everyone, we are so glad to have you back. We're here with us today. Hello, mama Judy.
Speaker 2:Hi Jill, hi everyone.
Speaker 1:It is great to be back here today I wanted to ask you something, mama Judy. I know in several of our podcasts in the beginning, when we first started, we would always check in with each other and say what have you been working on lately? That's been fun, so what have you been working on?
Speaker 2:Oh, gosh, you know, keeping with that, I got to have a thousand things going at the same time. I've got two journals going on, I've got some experimentation with acrylics and I have another project that involves stitching that I found on Facebook, that I'm going to do for next year.
Speaker 1:Oh, I love the idea of what you're going to be stitching. Would you care to share that, because I just think that's such a beautiful thing for anyone to consider doing it. I'm actually going to do it myself after you told me about it, so can you just tell people briefly what it is?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'd be happy to. And what we can do, jill is, we can also include in your written notes where they can see where it started. And I found it on Facebook and it is a woman that does stitching and we all sometimes get to feeling that the world is out of control and there's nothing we can do about it, and so I think what she decided is to do her love of stitching with random acts of kindness, and she makes a heart hand stitches up, she calls it a patch and it's got one or two hearts on it and it's got this beautiful. Saying something to the effect of this is for you, and I've made this. You can either keep it or pass it on, and in a world where you know, let's sew peace I think that's the name of the project. So S-O-W-S-E-W-P-E-S. Yes, and they can then keep that or pass it on, and it's just a beautiful sentiment.
Speaker 2:And I thought about years ago we used to buy stickers that you could put anywhere and it was, and it basically said you are beautiful. And we would stick them on trash cans, we would stick them on benches, wherever. It's just the idea that maybe what you put out there will brighten somebody's day, and you never know when someone gets something they need to hear at the right time in their life, and these patches were kind of the same thing. You leave them in random places, right, and I also love.
Speaker 2:I follow an artist that I've bought some of his paintings in Utah and what he does is he makes a small painting and he'll put it out there with a similar kind of thing. You have now found an original piece of art. Take it home and enjoy it or pass it on. I just love creativity and good intentions behind all these being shared with the world, so I'm going to do it next year. I am going to put at some point it out on my Instagram page, but I would love it if we could put it in the notes for the podcast.
Speaker 1:I will link it up for sure. And I've also seen another thing. Similar is where people do painted rocks and sometimes if you flip it over it'll have a nice word or a little phrase on the back. I saw one the other day that said it was called a rock garden. It said take one, leave one, enjoy, or something like that.
Speaker 2:Yes, I love that. We all need those kinds of things. So, anyway, that's what I'm going to be doing. That's my new project.
Speaker 1:Good Well, and I was just showing Mama Judy, before we started the podcast, that I just treated myself to some. If you're watching on YouTube, I'm showing you these paint brushes I got for watercoloring, so I'm going to be doing some watercoloring for fun and to incorporate into journals, as well as some of my stitching projects. I like stitching paper onto fabric sometimes.
Speaker 2:I have to interrupt us for a minute. If you can hear some rumbling in the background of our podcast, that is thunder rolling across the desert. We got a great rainstorm. It's not rainy now. I am outside, but I can hear the thunder coming, which I'm not moving inside. But if I get struck by lightning. You will know it. You guys will be the first to know.
Speaker 1:Well, speaking of being struck by lightning, let's talk about the topic for today.
Speaker 2:Okay, before we go down that rabbit hole too far, okay, all right. Now this is going to seem strange to some people, but not really. We are at the end of one year and a new year, calendar year will begin, and that thought that one year is dying and a new year will be born along with a phrase that I read in one of the books that I periodically pick up got me to thinking about death in the creative process. Now, death is usually not something that people think about, especially in relationship to creativity, but every time that we go about our creative endeavors, there are small deaths in it. It could be, for example, the death of an idea, it could be the death of a project. Now, death the way that I'm presenting that just to me, means the end of something. It doesn't physically mean that you're going to die or that your project is suddenly going to burst into splings, but that the idea. All along in the creative process, we have all kinds of small, little deaths of things. What do you think?
Speaker 1:Well, you're right, the way that it sounds the death it seems like it's got to be done and gone. But I like that you're using it in the way of it's an ending in something, just like you were saying the calendar year and ending a death of something. But tell me more about the idea of how this for artists, how can they use this in our lives or in your creative practice for good? Because it sounds depressing in a way if you think about it that way. But let's talk about how it's a good thing.
Speaker 2:Okay, this is a perfect time. If you guys don't mind me looking down, I'm going to read the quote that caught my eye, and this is by Kathy Wilde, who has a book called Wild Ideas Creativity from the Inside Out, and I think we've referenced her before.
Speaker 2:Yes, I'll link up that one, because she is one of the books that I seem to continually pick up. In every act of creation, something dies so that something new can be born. So it's really that idea that I'm talking about death and creativity. If I sit down to do a painting, let's say, and I have an idea of what I want it to be like, but for some reason that does not come about, it dies. In that process of dying I may find some new idea that automatically comes forward and is the rebirth. It's almost like death can be a transformation in creativity. One idea can transform into another idea, one technique can transform into a different technique. So it isn't death and they're depressing. Oh my gosh, I'm going to die someday, but it is an ending of something.
Speaker 1:Yes, and I like that what you said. It opens up space for new things to happen, Because if we're just going to stay with, stay with the whole time, if you would never move on, really.
Speaker 2:That's right. And think about it, and I think sometimes we've all done this. We get so attached to something, we become in love with an idea or the vision that we have what this painting or this collage will look like and we hang on to it, and hang on to it even when it is not working. To me, part of that is we need to let go, we need to let it die, let go of it and then see what comes out of it.
Speaker 1:And it made me think, and I actually, since we're on a computer, I just looked this up quickly. But have you heard the phrase kill your darlings? No, okay.
Speaker 2:I felt that way at times.
Speaker 1:I thought it was from Stephen King, but we'll find out. It says the phrase kill your darlings means eliminating any part of your writing characters, scenes, sentences, side plots that, while you might love them, don't serve your story.
Speaker 2:Ah well, basically we're talking death is killing your darlings, that idea that you thought would be so great when you try to execute it, not so good kill it off.
Speaker 2:Let it die. Let it die so that the new can come forth. We're letting every year, throughout the world, we let one calendar year die On December 31st at midnight. 2023 is dead, 12.01,. 2024 begins. We haven't really lost anything, we're just keeping track on this calendar, but we let one die so that one can come on. I think we need to do that and recognize that in our creative process and understand it is part of the process.
Speaker 1:Another way to think about it when you were saying that is that you know, when you do some this is probably more with writing and journaling, but and I think this is taking it more literal, but I just want you to hear this one You're journaling something, you're especially pouring your heart out, your emotions, you know, whatever. So it's a kind of a therapeutic type thing. And then, if you ever seen where people go and put it into a fire and let it burn up Been there, done that, yeah, and so that's the same thing too. It's like a release, because the other thing about with death is if at some point you have to let go and release things, whether it's just into the world or to have open hands for new things to come. But the burning of that made me think of a death, of that, but you still did something good with it. And then it goes up in the air and she's part of the process.
Speaker 2:It is, and as you were talking, I was also envisioning these journals that I've just completed. That project is dead as far as the process of creating them. So there are these little deaths throughout the creative process that we probably don't even think about, but I thought it was really interesting that Kathy Weill brought it forward to remind us that something dies in the creative process so that something new can be reborn. And that's also in the natural world how things grow, even the plant that never truly dies off, let's say, a morning glory. So every year my morning glory dies off to the ground, but then from the roots below the ground it comes back up the next spring and maybe that's a good way to look at our creativity. Our creativity has roots way, way down into us and some creative idea will come forward and then, for whatever the reason, it will complete itself one way or another and die off and a new one will come forth.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I like that visual that feels good, see where you have the roots down there, and it's just a natural part of being alive in this world is death is such a big part of it. And the first thing is with art is artists, though, we get to continually create. It's not like, oh gosh, that project's done, dead, I'm done, I'm done, I'm out of here. There's no more art to be created. There's nothing more creative for me to do.
Speaker 2:That's right. We get to just keep dying and getting reborn, dying and getting reborn Along with that. Another word that maybe people haven't thought about with the creative process is grief, and we can get attached again, like Stephen King or whoever it was that you quoted talked about. We can get attached to something that we just can't let go of, but when we finally let go of it, we feel horrible or we're depressed or whatever. That's part of the grief that comes when something dies off. It's okay to grieve because that idea that you were so sure was going to be great, it was going to be a wonderful painting, it didn't happen. It's okay to grieve it To the natural process of death, and grieving is part of the rhythm of creativity, if you want to look at it that way, and I think that's kind of where we need to look at it and to understand it's all part of the process.
Speaker 2:Creativity seems to me to be like the natural world. Everything that we experience in the creative process and being a creative is we're repeating what the natural world does. The natural world kills things off. Here goes the helicopter.
Speaker 1:You got all kinds of things. I heard some birds in the background earlier.
Speaker 2:I am not out on the patio by myself. The thunder is gone, but the helicopters are coming by Hopefully no more. Anyway, it is. It's all part of that natural rhythm. We're involved in the rhythm of life and this is, in our creativity, just part of the rhythm of life, death and grief and being reborn, and we have all of this, I believe, has very deep roots that allows our creativity to continue when one dies and another is reborn.
Speaker 1:I love that. It feels like just a good natural process to be part of. It is.
Speaker 2:Sometimes we don't think about it or sometimes we shy away from it because those things the letting go of an idea or a project, or the disappointment, those are ugly and messy and they don't feel good, but they're fleeting. They should be fleeting as far as the creative process.
Speaker 1:Right. One thing I knew we were going to talk about this is I looked up something because I was thinking about the ego and there's an actual term called ego death and I thought about the role of death in this process is of an ego death where, when we become too perfectionistic, we're being too prideful, whatever it is around our art to quiet that or silence that ego part of us and let that have a death to that part, so that we can go on and be creative and be free and not have that ego hanging over us. And so, like the ego death. I just thought that was an interesting term and it's not gone forever, obviously, but it'll be waiting for you right around the corner, but I think it's a neat thing to think about also.
Speaker 2:Yes, it will be knocking at the door trying to get back out. Yes, no, that is. That's a great thing. That just again exemplifies the fact that the idea of death is out there in everything and that some death is needed to grow, to change, to evolve, and I think the reason, one of the reasons, like I said, we were ending one year and beginning a new one, but I also wanted to use these words like death and grief because normally they're not considered things you normally would talk about and they're just there, they're part of it. They're not necessarily bad in the way that we're talking about them. We're something dies in order to be reborn and we have to let it die. We have to grieve it if we need to, and then move on to what's coming forth. It's again, as you pointed out, jill, it's just part of the natural process.
Speaker 1:And another thing I just thought I was used to do a lot of jewelry with beading and you've gone away from that a little bit. So I'm wondering you've gone away from that some because was it part of it? Because it's so small in your hands and stuff it wasn't comfortable. Is that why you kind of quit doing that so much?
Speaker 2:You know that's perfect, because I was going to bring that up, so thank you. Oh no, it died a natural death. I did it for probably close to 15 years in some form and then, all of a sudden, without even knowing it, I just did not want to do it anymore. I just I couldn't even. I just didn't want to do it. Period. That's a natural death. Yes, what that did. After a period and I'm looking back now I didn't realize it was a natural death I couldn't figure out for a while. I couldn't figure out, well, why don't I want to do this? I love doing this and it just wasn't there. After a period of almost like an incubation period, the journals showed up. So if I look at that process, if we look at my process, that's exactly what happened. One form of creativity died off naturally and another form eventually took root, even within my journals, where I started several years ago. I've noticed on Instagram they don't look like what they look like today, right. So again, death and evolution and growth. Yeah, and thank you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it also doesn't mean that this might not be the case for you, but you could go back to doing beating and jewelry and then there's just a new version of that. That's reborn. Doubt that you will, but who knows? I mean, I'm just saying, if someone's listening, there could be something that you do for a long time and really enjoy, and it has its natural death, and then it may come back around and have a rebirth.
Speaker 2:And it's funny that you should mention that. You must be sitting inside my head listening to what I'm going to talk about. But it has been shooting its little tendrils back up here in the last 10, 12 months and I have a lot of supplies and it will come again. But it is not going to be the beaded embroidery work that I used to do. It will be in a different form. It will be in the form that it needs to be where my creativity is. Now. I don't know what that looks like, but it's just waiting for me to. It's just in the death and rebirth process. It's just getting strong enough for me to take it up again. So it is, it's going to come back.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a beautiful thing. I can't wait to see what you do with your beads Me either just a surprise.
Speaker 2:The other thing, jill, before we wrap up, that I wanted to talk about death and breathing. It's a little side thing, I didn't want to get hung up on this in today's discussion, but death and breathing, as we have said before, are strong, strong emotions and they will often show up in what you create, especially if you work with paints, I think, or even sculptures, and you may process those emotions of death and grief by producing something that represents those emotions. So before we were talking about the little deaths that come along so that you can evolve, but if you in your life have experienced strong grief or a death that creates that, you may process those emotions through your art.
Speaker 1:Ooh, that's nice.
Speaker 2:Death and grief show up in our creative process in many, many ways, from the little adbd ones to the really strong, significant ones. Yes, and it's just all part of it.
Speaker 1:Yes, I would. This is so interesting too, because I'm sure a lot of people are going to have different thoughts and feelings about this. I would love to hear from our audience, especially if you could go over to our YouTube page. You can just click on the link for the YouTube video of this in the comment below. I'm curious what have you experienced, because this could be triggering something like oh, that's what that was, or not to feel so bad about something going away, like to me, it's an encouragement. If you're feeling like this is happening in your life, consider it a fun thing to think forward to, about what's coming, the rebirth or the birth of something new. But I would love to hear stories from other people if they've experienced this or they acknowledge it's happening or has happened in their creative life. I would, too.
Speaker 2:Jill and in fact when I was reading that chapter on in Kathy Wilde's book, it was that word, death, that hit me and went. Oh my God. I've had all kinds of deaths in my creativity process, but I had never associated that word with what I'd gone through, because we just don't naturally think about death and grief in the process. I would be delighted to hear anybody's feedback.
Speaker 1:Yes, me too, and that would be really interesting to hear. And speaking of words, we have next week we have a special episode that Mama Judy and I are doing and it has to do with words and choosing a word to guide you in your life, in your creativity, and all that. So we really want you to tune in. Next week We'll just have a discussion and also I'm going to give you a fun exercise to do. That has been transformational. I've been doing this exercise for probably 10 years now at least, and we're going to be sharing that next week.
Speaker 2:Yes, and as we leave Jill, I would like to wish everybody the end of one year and a happy new year.
Speaker 1:Yes, happy new year 2024. Oh my gosh. All right, Mama Judy, love you and we will talk to you next week. All right, everyone Bye-bye. Thank you, Love you.