Not-So Kind Regards

How to let go and make messy progress as a Perfectionist

• Maddy Birdcage & Caroline Moss • Season 4 • Episode 2

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About this Episode: 

Is perfectionism getting in the way of you taking action and getting it done?  

In this episode, we dive into the perfectionist mindset and its impact on both personal and professional life. We explore how perfectionism can actually be transformed into a superpower when you have the right tools. Caroline shares her journey of navigating perfectionism, offering insights into the challenges it presents and the strategies she has developed to overcome them. Maddy adds her perspective, highlighting the importance of balancing perfectionism with action, especially in the fast-paced world of marketing. Together, they discuss the role of self-awareness, support systems, and the importance of embracing imperfection in achieving success. 

Episode Highlights: 

  • Understanding the perfectionist mindset and its effects on productivity. 
  • Strategies for overcoming the paralysis caused by overthinking. 
  • The importance of self-awareness in identifying unhelpful perfectionist tendencies. 
  • How perfectionism can be turned into a superpower with the right approach. 
  • Practical steps for perfectionists to take action and achieve their goals. 
  • The role of external support and accountability in managing perfectionism. 
  • The significance of embracing imperfection in personal and professional growth. 

Resources:  

Where To Find Us:  

To work with us, book your discovery call at https://www.birdcagemarketing.com.au/start-here

To discover the school, visit https://birdcagemarketing.com.au/

Speaker 1:

Welcome to the Not so Kind Regards podcast. I'm Maddie.

Speaker 2:

Birdcage and I'm Caroline Moss. We are done with the digital fluff and pleasantries and we're here to talk straight about brand building, digital marketing and personal growth.

Speaker 1:

This episode is, of course, brought to you by Birdcage Marketing, the forward-thinking business growth and digital marketing brand that started this all. If you are a small, medium or large size business, don't know how to get started or need to tighten up your digital marketing efforts, we are currently taking on new strategy and virtual marketing manager clients. Let us shape your strategy, give you the action steps you need to implement and then hold your hand as you and all your team implement the exact process that will take you from where you are now to where you want to be. To get started, book your discovery call at birdcagemarketingcomau and let's do this. Now back to the episode. Hey Maddie, hi Caroline, how's it going today? Great, I'm really excited to dive into the perfectionist mind.

Speaker 2:

And we would say that's more my brain out of the two of us, hey.

Speaker 1:

I can relate very slightly because I feel like when if I'm going to perfectionist mode, it it's a really bad thing. But I'm really interested to hear more about the challenges that you face and then how you've been able to overcome it to still achieve success in your career yeah yeah cool. How do people know if they're a perfectionist? Okay?

Speaker 2:

so I would say you know, if you're a perfectionist, if you automatically go, okay, I'm an overthinker, I'm an overanalyzer. I have to think of all the things, all the what ifs, before I take action on something, and the to-do lists and uh, yeah, like I love sitting in a strategy, I love sitting in like the planning mode, like that, and then it's like, oh crap, I gotta take action now. And it's like all those fears start coming up of have I planned enough? Am I gonna make a mistake? Am I gonna be a failure at this is? Are people gonna judge me for not having prepared enough? That's a big one too.

Speaker 1:

I feel like from because I mean everyone except my sister and I in the team are actually perfectionists and I feel like from mentoring and supporting the team with what they're doing the biggest, the worst thing that can happen to a perfectionist is being caught out not having been prepared. So if I think about some of our strategists, if they're on a call with a client and the client dropped something on them that was like oh, that was in an email I sent you, that's like the worst thing that could ever happen to them.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that feels like the Jenga, the final Jenga block being pulled out and you're crumbling down.

Speaker 1:

I mean, it's not a great feeling if your job's client service to like you should be on top of it, but it's like it's not a great feeling if your job's client service, to like you, should be on top of it. But it's like it's unrealistic to think that you can get it right a hundred percent of the time. It is unrealistic. So how? What have you done to navigate through with this? Because, just like being a multi-passionate, where having all of these different focuses and being able to juggle so many different things, it's actually your superpower being a perfectionist can also be a superpower if channeled correctly. Definitely so how do you?

Speaker 2:

channel it. You have to start to identify what's helpful and what's not towards getting towards your goal. So if there are certain what-ifs that are helpful which there are, because it's really good to be prepared for things, it's really good to even go have a plan B or plan C, it's good to kind of try to anticipate what clients are going to ask you or some of the things that could go wrong in a marketing campaign. Because things go wrong but you have to go. You can't sit in that what if, what if, what if, and go down that like wormhole of just you start to spiral. Basically, what you have to do is go. You have to start to back yourself and go. Well, if this happens, I have proven to myself from previous things going wrong that I always can get myself out of this, or I can always find a solution, or I can, yeah, and it's not 100% my fault either, and so how do you flick that switch?

Speaker 1:

it's almost this looping, it's almost like this, this OCD looping, where it's like you could just show up every day and sit in front of a computer and keep strategizing, keep planning, and then how do you then just like do the thing. Because for me as a multi-passionate, I'm like just fucking do it, just do the thing, just do it. But for you as a perfectionist, like what strategies have you learned to flick that switch? I think it's a.

Speaker 2:

I say this a lot in our podcast and I say this a lot in life. It's a skill you have to develop and it's like a muscle that you're growing. So you have to first start to be self-aware that you're a perfectionist and identify what's helpful and what's not helpful. And if you're constantly just sitting in planning mode and not doing something, if you're taking three hours to write a social media post because you want it to be perfect, because you're worried that you're going to misspell something, if you're holding on to a client project and delaying it before you can deliver it, can you think of any more examples like that?

Speaker 1:

yeah, I've got some ideas. See, isn't it so funny. We're so good at mentoring the opposite version of us. Yeah, prove to yourself that you are safe, even if you make a mistake. Yes, that's big thing. So my challenge would be send the thing out before you're ready, and then, or even I would challenge yourself to put a social media post up with a spelling mistake in it and then see what happens. Guess what? Nothing happened.

Speaker 2:

I think that's part of it is you start to have life experiences where you do make a mistake and you can go. This is the moment that I either crumble or this is the moment that I build resilience, and that's a big thing I think, as a perfectionist, is building that resilience muscle and going. I am still worthy, even if I make a mistake. Spelling things are going to. So I've had really harsh bosses before and that was part of it too.

Speaker 2:

Like I've always been super self-critical of myself because it's like what I saw growing up. It's like you achieve high, you don't make mistakes, there's not a lot of room for error, you just have to try 100. Like you always have to give it your best. And then I had bosses who were like I can't believe you posted something with the wrong time on it, the wrong date on it. Like come on, team. Like you can do better than this and like and then that's just like echoing what you're already criticizing yourself about and that's really hard. And then you get older and you you start to back yourself and you get more life experience and you start to put things in perspective as well. I think in therapy, like I've gone to therapy.

Speaker 2:

I've done the journaling, I listened to a lot of psychology podcasts and you just start to realize, like, like we've talked about in previous episodes, you set your values and you go. Is being perfect One of my life values? That it's absolutely not, even though it's like one of my mental health conditions. Yeah, it's like my. My values are actually like playfulness and having fun, and it's like if perfectionism is getting in the way of those things, especially like when it comes to now being a parent and the home duties, it's like if that's getting in the way of me having fun and being present. Those are more important to me than having the perfect.

Speaker 1:

X, y, Z, a hundred percent. I think also what perfectionists need to realize is that there is no such thing as failure. I say this all the time, and there's no such thing as perfect. Well, no, is there? Maybe? There is Maybe in utopia.

Speaker 1:

No, do you think in one sphere of life and somewhere? Do you know what I almost think of what perfect is? I mean, some people would argue that perfect is not when something can be added, but when nothing else can be taken away. Some artist said that I don't know. I would argue perfection is actually like the messy chaos If you think of like a perfect Renaissance painting and how chaotic and how much there is going on at any given time, like it's almost like the imperfection is the perfection.

Speaker 2:

So, yeah, that's the thing the imperfection is the perfection. We were just talking about somebody we both look up to and like the business and manifestation space and she's called manifestation babe and just how. She is like a very smart, very successful businesswoman and she does things chaotically like she'll. She'll record podcasts, episodes on her phone in her car yeah mad, she's my aspiration, she'll just start coughing in the middle of a course or something and leave that in there.

Speaker 2:

You know, she she is the opposite of perfectionism, because she has such high self-worth, because that's what she teaches, and it's kind of like she's perfect for that, right. But it's like the people who are succeeding are the people who are not scared to make a mistake. I think that's what we're trying to get at Once you learn that you're going to cope with those mistakes and that they're part of the learning process and that mistakes actually make you better at your job, because those are the biggest learning experiences.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, if I think of what I've learned, we were talking about an old client this morning, caroline and I, and talking about how fuck I would never go back to working for a client like them, but a client like that ever again, even though the paycheck was huge Every single month. But a lot of styles would have to align for me to accept a project that big every single month again. But like that. And I said to Caroline, I said taking on that client was actually the start of the downfall that we had a few years ago. And then Caroline said, yeah, but you learned from that. Think of everything you learned from that, everything I learned from that. I was like the lead of their project. It literally transformed how we work as an agency. Now that one client, that disastrous one client.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Transformed how we now do what we do, and now we're leading the way on how agencies should be working with clients.

Speaker 2:

And it transformed kind of what I thought I wanted out of my career as well, which was like high stress, high power. And this was all while I was pregnant and the pregnancy hormones were through the roof too. And you knew before. I knew you said, when you come back from maternity leave, you're not going to want to manage big projects like this, you're going to want to be doing something different.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, Well, it's because I've been there. Yeah, we have two types of clients that come to us or students, multi-passionates, who dive in and will start anything but tend to not finish, and then perfectionists who don't start anything properly.

Speaker 2:

Or who don't post on social media for a month, because they're so worried about writing the wrong caption, or they're so I would say both of them. Come back to trusting your decision-making skills. Do you know?

Speaker 1:

what I think it is. I think for both of them. If you're like I'm sure there are people very much middle of the road and they probably don't have the problems that like we might experience.

Speaker 2:

I feel like they're not in our universe, though.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, do they exist?

Speaker 2:

I don't know they would probably just go work in like a cubicle or something. No offense, couldn't do it. Probably not listening to this podcast.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you're right.

Speaker 2:

It's like it's kind of like we're dealing with two ends of the extreme right and it's like if you're on the, if you're the extreme perfectionist, if you're the extreme multi-passionate, you're probably very ambitious is what I would say, but you're also quite stuck in a lot of areas, would you say, most like marketers not just entrepreneurs, but marketers would be more like your team, like more perfectionist, like do you know many marketers who are multi-passionates and who are experienced marketers?

Speaker 1:

none that lead a team. Yeah, so go me. Yeah, yeah, actually, none that lead a team. I actually know quite a few creators content creators that I speak with, and they've had teams. They've shut their teams down, which I mean I could have been very tempted to do the same a few years back not have a team, because I struggled, but then I just got to learn how to hire the right people, and this is the thing. This is what these episodes are about. They're talking about how do you negotiate with how you're already naturally inclined.

Speaker 1:

Yes, yeah, your superpowers exactly how do you negotiate with?

Speaker 1:

Some people might call them a curse or a downfall, to be adhd, multi-passionate or to be ocd, but I actually I believe that if you really tap into these and you and you use them the right way, they actually they do become your superpower because it's like you, you kind of at the end, each end of the spectrum.

Speaker 1:

And if you are like at the end of the spectrum, such a perfectionist, it means you can deliver things to an incredibly high standard and you can do things in 10 million times better than the person next to you, right? So if that's the case, if you, as a perfectionist who tends to think of everything, pre-plans for everything, can deliver at a high standard, if you can simply figure out how to overcome the inaction piece, that's when you're unstoppable. And it's the same with the multi-passionate. If you are all the way at the end of the multi-passionate spectrum, like I am, like my sister is where it's like we're inspired by new ideas literally every few seconds, I dare say If you can figure out how to channel and focus, that, that's when you become unstoppable. It's when you deny those things about yourself that you become middle of the road.

Speaker 1:

No one wants to be that no one wants to work in a cubicle.

Speaker 2:

No, or just unhappy, yeah, not living authentically, yeah. So what I would say with being a perfectionist is start to identify those like anywhere where you're procrastinating, anywhere where you're self criticizing and it's holding you back from completing the work, anywhere where it's stopping you from living in your values as well. Like, if you know, moving this thing there, moving this thing like doing this, or like like rewriting a sentence 20 million times. Like, do people do that? I've sat on writing pieces for very long times, wow. But that's where you, that's where you have to start to self-identify.

Speaker 2:

And now, like I don't know which end of the spectrum my husband sits on but he cannot spell for his life when he sends a text message. And now I text so much more like him. But I used to be. Even I used to have to put a period in the full stop in the right place. I just have comma. You know everything. And now it's like I just hit send and it's like it's exposure therapy for me, yeah, and it's like I need people to see that I'm.

Speaker 2:

And it's like for me to go like, oh, I misspelled something. Oh well, oh, I'm not perfect, yeah, and like I'll do that now with like social media posts like I I try not I expect to check the spelling maybe once or twice, rather than like 10 times. You know, I don't wait to like have my perfect hashtag strategy or perfect this or perfect that. It's like it just have to. That was working with you.

Speaker 2:

Actually, I don't wait to like have my perfect hashtag strategy or perfect this or perfect that. It's like it just has to. That was working with you actually when I first started posting on TikTok, because you were like you just need to post more because that's where you're going to learn the most. And so I was like okay, well, if this is stopping me, because I think I need to have the perfect SEO strategy and the perfect caption and the perfect this and the perfect that and the perfect lighting and the perfect. Nothing's going to be perfect, so just freaking post and I'll learn as I go. Yeah, and like like it's taken me a year to level up my content yeah, interesting.

Speaker 1:

I think what we need to figure out, like what perfectionists really need to figure out, is why are you so afraid of potentially failing? I'll give you a hint it's because you're telling yourself stories that aren't reality. So what you're basically telling yourself is and this is for people that have a fear of failure it's if I fail at this, it means that I am a. Insert. Your biggest fear here it means that I am a bad person, I am unlovable, I'm a fraud. I'm a fraud, I'm dumb, I can't do anything.

Speaker 1:

Right Like it's because these are stories that you've, you're telling yourself, which you've inherited from how you were socialized growing up, from your teachers, from your parents, from society, from all of these things. When the reality is, there is no such thing as failure If you simply do not give up. Even if you do give up, reframe that, my friend, that is a pivot that isn't quitting, that is a pivot and that's what just you just keep going. The only way you can fail, in my mind, is if you do something once and you're like well, see, I can't do it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's, that's failure you see that in everything people are just like oh, I'm just bad at that, yeah, I'm not gonna even try.

Speaker 1:

It's like well, no, you decide whether you fail or not because you can decide. Well, it just didn't work that way, I'll not gonna even try. It's like well, no, you decide whether you fail or not because you can decide. Well, it just didn't work that way, I'll try it another way. And so I think that's what the perfectionist can learn from the multi-passionate. It's that? Oh well, that didn't work. I'm bored of this, let's try something else. I think what, what's?

Speaker 2:

interesting about me if I do say so myself. Well, let me be the decider. I can be bad at something for a really long time and stick with it. I don't know if that's like perfection. Yeah, I think I'm just stubborn, like if I look at sports like that. I've stuck at like I'm not naturally good at a lot of things, but I'm like I'm going to figure this out, cause it's fun, so funny.

Speaker 1:

All of you strategists are exactly the same. Cause that's what Maria's like as well. It's like if she finds something hard, and you're the same, if you guys find something hard, it's like well, I better figure this out. And it's like that's again the superpower of a perfectionist. It's the fact that it's like I'm going to get this perfect. Like you, you challenge yourself to get it perfect, but then you do need to kind of like release that and be like yeah, I'm 80% of the way there. Like release that and be like yeah, I'm 80% of the way there. That's good enough.

Speaker 2:

Which is so good about hanging out with you and working under you. Obviously it's like sometimes you'll be, I'll be like well, should I go? Like do this course or this or that? You're like Caroline, you know what you're talking about and then I turn that onto my mentorship clients. I'm like you actually know what you're talking about. You don't need to go study for 10 more hours. Like you're going to learn as you deliver. It's like you learn as you go. Learning from experience is the biggest learning experience in life.

Speaker 1:

Like you can study, study, study all you want, but until you start doing this, is coming from people that have done many university degrees in our profession, what we currently do, and yet I don't think we learn anything from them.

Speaker 2:

Some things are starting to trickle back in from communication. I need to you reckon. I think it's just like there's so many persuasion tools that I want to go back and study again now.

Speaker 1:

Well, Maria brought in her old uni books and she's the oldest out of all of us, at the ripe old age of what 36 or something, I don't know. Some of the books were actually really interesting, like when it comes to persuasion and psychology and all that kind of stuff. So like the theory is still there.

Speaker 2:

The humans are humaning.

Speaker 1:

But I didn't learn any of that. Mind you, I did do an arts degree in media and then advertising my master's degree.

Speaker 2:

So I did a communications degree and then I got to my first job in SEO and I was like I had to Google what SEO was on the first day of my job. Isn't that ironic, Googling what SEO was on the first day of?

Speaker 1:

my job. Isn't that ironic?

Speaker 2:

Googling what SEO is, and then um, but then it's like I felt like I didn't learn anything practical in my degree, whereas my friend got like a PR and advertising degree and she's not in that field anymore, but she was like it was very practical, hands-on Whereas I learned like media criticism, ethics, persuasionasion, like logical fallacies, interpersonal communication, and only now, oh, 12 years.

Speaker 1:

I don't know how long ago I did uni 12 years later something like that 2013 yeah yeah, 2013.

Speaker 2:

Only now am I starting to see that. Oh, it's, it was a really important. I think it's just like everyone should learn it for life pretty much, especially when it comes to politics. You mean how to communicate with other humans, yeah, and like persuasive tools that people use to influence others that aren't always ethical or logical, like propaganda.

Speaker 2:

Logical fallacies yeah, propaganda. We like studied old ads and like they were messed up, like they used to make women use. Like clorox, which is like household cleaning stuff to. Can I say douche on our podcast? Yeah, like you can say whatever you want.

Speaker 1:

It's our podcast. It's not racist.

Speaker 2:

I don't like racist people but yeah, there was a lot of sexist ads back then and there was other ads where, like, women were like crying in the bedroom and their husbands were coming home and it was like an ad for, yeah, some kind of douching product. It's all about douching. Nobody douches anymore. Pretty sure it's really bad for you. I know exactly they're making these women do it and it's terrible for their like ph systems wellness, wellness, 60s style.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, jack was showing me some old, like marlboro ads back in the day. Marlboro is very like the everyman isn't it no, they were cool. Oh the cool dude like cowboy yeah it's like the cowboy, like that's what I felt, like everybody wanted to be yeah, but it's not the everyman, it's more, it's definitely more like the outlaw. Yeah, yeah, it's like cool. Yeah, that's why smoking is cool okay, what were we talking about?

Speaker 2:

oh, being a perfectionist, but still yeah. So being a perfectionist, it does drive you to achieve and learn, like I'm definitely a lifelong learner and I'm proud of that part of myself and I'm like very happy to be in the process of learning something too like I find that fun obviously because, like the strategy part and the planning part is a fun part for me.

Speaker 1:

I feel like it's difficult to talk about your, how you approach your perfectionism now, because you are, I mean it's healing ongoing, healed at this level like no next level. Yeah, that it's like okay, the perfectionism that you see coming through from your one-on-one coaching clients. Yes, what advice do you seem to be giving over and over so?

Speaker 2:

a lot of my coaching clients. Some of them you know will get so busy with work and they're so busy delivering the level of work that they want to deliver in their business to their clients that it's really hard for them to then go and work on their marketing, because the perfectionism comes from the external validation of the people who are paying you versus the future marketing that you know your business needs. But then you get in your head and you go well, I can't make time for this, or I can't, you know, do a whole week's worth of this or that, or you know it's like you just have huge expectations of what you can deliver.

Speaker 2:

And so it's what I try to do is help them get really realistic about okay, when you have really big workloads, how can we still fit a half hour to an hour of marketing in every single day? Yeah, and if you have more quieter workloads, how do we not go on a spiral of, oh my gosh, my work is drying up and look at this as a gift and it's a? Time and it's not a time to overanalyze and go oh my gosh, I don't know what to post because you do. You have a strategy?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you can reach out to me via email and on Instagram and we can work through this, I mean the advice for perfectionists seems to be the same as multi-passionates, but the difference is no, it's actually the same.

Speaker 1:

It's have your clear life values to figure out, like what is important to you, what must, what should you be focusing on? Getting as perfect as you can versus what should you be letting go? That's your life strategy, your vision board. Then it's your marketing strategy, to make sure that you have a plan and you're not overthinking and you're simply taking action on what feels aligned to you. And then it's having the right support, the right people, to get you out of your own head. Because, my god, god, we've, we've both. Like you are currently coaching. I've done a lot of coaching in the past. It is so easy to identify the patterns, the energy, the stage of life, the, the thinking that your clients are going through, but it's so hard to pick it up on yourself yeah and we do a lot of like, reflective work with each other, like even this morning when Caroline arrived in from Cairns.

Speaker 1:

Before we sat down and did the podcast, I kind of unloaded onto Caroline and she reflects back to me what's going on and you know, I hope that's how, that's what we do. It's about supporting each other, but it's about, I think, the benefit we have is that because so much, so many of our team are coaches, it's almost like having an in-house therapist.

Speaker 2:

And we all are into personal development and we're all into human psychology because we're marketers yeah, and we're all into mindset stuff yeah, because you can't work at Birdcage and not be.

Speaker 1:

No, no, but it's so hard to pick it up on yourself and that's why you need, that's why coaching works, that's why having I mean not everyone is a great coach, obviously, but it's like. That's why coaching isn't simply teaching people how to do marketing, it's not. It's also not simply talking about manifestation, it's being having. It's being able to, number one, identify what is actually happening with your client at that time. Number two, what they need from you emotionally, spiritually, practically, strategically all of the ease, and then it's also then like holding the vision for them and keeping them on track. Can you talk about, about those six support systems?

Speaker 2:

that you did in your webinar the other day. That was really cool.

Speaker 1:

So what I basically identified is that we need creatives and multi-passionates, especially, and perfectionists as well. We need six levels of support, or we need support in six different areas in order to be successful. It's not saying that if you don't have these, you can't be successful, but from my experience, when I eventually built support in all of these areas, that's when things got a lot easier for me. So number one is skills and knowledge, so it's like learning new things. Number two is strategic vision holding, so like holding the vision for you. Number three is operationally, so that's like the practical implementation of stuff. Number four is creatively, yeah, and that's like having a brainstorming. You said like a professional untangler, professional untangler where it's like having creative back and forth and brainstorming and that kind of thing.

Speaker 1:

Number five is financially, because we live in a capitalist world where we need money to make our lives easier, and so you need someone who is supporting you, or many people who are supporting you in managing this very important asset. And then you need a personal support which looks that is self-care, so like health and fitness, that is kids and family, that is home life, that is all that like personal care stuff. You need support in all six of those areas, and it's no surprise that five of those is the support you can get from Birdcage Marketing School. That is on purpose, and I always like to joke and say one day we'll have the sixth, where we can come to your house and make sure you get your massage and that your kids are taken care of and that your meals are cooked. And maybe one day the ultimate support for creatives and entrepreneurs.

Speaker 2:

I think as moms and as women who are just by default, end up picking up a lot of the load in the domestic sphere. That is something we talk to students and coaching clients, mentoring clients a lot about and you'd think like, oh, you're a marketer, why are you talking to me about this? But it's like we understand that if you're running a business as a woman and you have kids and you're expected to run the household and you have no support in any of those facets like no wonder you're burning out and no wonder you can't make time for everything, because that's like the job of 10 people and you're putting this pressure on yourself to be able to do that all and do it well and have the energy at the end of the day to keep going.

Speaker 1:

That's the thing. It's like something that we've learned is that we can teach all the great marketing strategies and tactics and frameworks in the entire world, but if you don't have the time or the mental capacity to execute it, what's the point? And so that's why we are so passionate about supporting as many aspects of those support systems that you need, and I do wish we could provide the personal and home support one, because I know that is such a huge load for so many people. But it's like how do you do that?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, as an online marketing school. It is the job of a lot of people in that space and a lot of women do it all on their own, especially if you have, like, a partner who goes away to work and different things like that.

Speaker 2:

Or you've got the kids at home, yeah, or just doesn't support you. But how many people have we been in like office hours, so our student office hours that they get with us once a month, and you're talking to them about like can you cut corners at dinnertime? So that, like, because they're like, no, I have to make five different meals for my five different kids, who are all picky. It's like, well, how is that affecting you at work, not just time wise, but mental load? You're having to plan that many meals, plan all those groceries, and then that means you can't deliver something in your work or think creatively about a problem in your work, because you're

Speaker 1:

focusing on this other thing 100%, and that's something I figured out quite a few years ago. It was when I was struggling with money still and I was finding it hard to justify like having a cleaner or paying for child care or doing any of that stuff. And then I was like hold on, if my hourly rate is $120 and a cleaner's hourly rate is $45, and a cleaner's hourly rate is $45, it means that if I do three hours of work while I have a cleaner here for three hours, I'm actually making money. And that's how I've then equated absolutely everything in my life Back to time is money, which sounds like such a 90s businessman demeanor thing and evil, but it is. But it helped you feel less guilt about it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and now I've gone the next step, which is where I want everyone to go. It's like well, actually you don't even need to be working while your cleaner is cleaning. You could be out with your family having a nice time, because self-care plays dividends in your business as well. If you invest in yourself, invest in your energy, invest in your time, you will lead to making more money when you're actually at work later on. But yeah, that's how I look at everything. That's why I now have someone that comes to the office once a fortnight to clean my car. We have a cleaner twice a week in the house. Well, we did have an ironing lady, but my husband's kind of taken that over again. My mom literally looked after all of our financials. I'm outsourcing my renovations to my dad.

Speaker 2:

Good no-transcript I don't know. He's renovating or he's managing the renovation.

Speaker 1:

Both One day when he finishes his house that he's flipping. But like I pay, I pay my mother and I will be paying my father for this as well. Like I'm going to be paying money for it. But it's like I already can't keep up with what my brain is thinking about, so why would I add more to my plate? Okay, so let's get back to these perfectionist folk. Someone is currently sitting here and is like that is me. I'm a perfectionist. I am constantly stuck in this loop of planning, planning, planning. I do like one post every few days. It takes me three hours to write. I'm not getting anywhere. Like I just don't know how to get out of this. Like, what are the next three practical steps they need to take to sort their shit out? What are the next three practical steps they need to take to sort their shit out?

Speaker 2:

You know, it'd be really easy for me to say, just like, get out of your own way and start acting, but it's like, yes, we need to do that, but how do you get there? You need to find support. You need to find what motivates you to take action. So one thing I would say is, like we talk about what a lot of people talk about in the social media space and it's a little bit annoying. But your why? But seriously, like, what is your message? How are you impacting people If what you're doing is holding you back from sharing something that could just change one person's life or just make them have a tiny bit better day or make them smile?

Speaker 2:

Wouldn't you want to share that over holding it back? So that would be the first thing. The second thing would be so like something that I've realized in my 30s, that I tried to DIY everything in my 20s, but in my 30s I started paying professionals to do things. So, like a nutritionist, you know, going to a Pilates studio rather than trying to work out at home Doing, you know, working with a personal branding coach, outsourcing, outsourcing, outsourcing, things like that. Like I have a, I have a fortnightly cleaner now, you know, it's like I've tried to do DIY everything and I realized that when I pay for something, I'm more motivated to take action on it because somebody's holding me accountable yeah, even if they're not literally going, hey, what are you doing? It's like that money, that value that I've put into it holds me accountable. Now, and because I'm a perfectionist I am a teacher's pet, so with my nutritionist I want it to be her best nutrition client ever.

Speaker 1:

And guess what? She's one of my good friends now, so I achieved that.

Speaker 2:

I'll ask her if that's why.

Speaker 1:

Agreed. That's the thing. This is what I'm saying. Like, being a perfectionist like you might be so hard on yourself. You're like, oh, I'm so I don't take any action because I want everything to be perfect, but it's like. It's actually like, use that to your advantage. Like, sign up and commit to something. Sign up and start working with people like us that know how to manage your superpower, and then use that to your advantage. Use the fact that I've paid money for this, so I'm going to do this perfect, yeah.

Speaker 2:

And then you get the result yeah, and then you get the validation of your coach going, that's perfect.

Speaker 1:

And then you're like and then we're just stuck in an endless loop of perfection hunting. What do you reckon that's?

Speaker 2:

a that's a joke, obviously, but you do just have to find the steps. If you like planning, then plan out the steps you need to take to get there. Figure out what motivates you, figure out your values, figure out why you want to do this thing in the first place, and then that should motivate you enough to take the action. Yeah, I agree, get out there and start doing. Post that thing that's been in your drafts. Just close your eyes and post it. Just post it. Send that thing to the client. Send the proposal, send the quote. Yeah, send it. Charge what you're worth. Yeah, put an extra zero on there.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it scares you, but do it and then you'll be like me one day and you'll be like I don't proofread a single thing I've sent out in the last 12 months. All right, well done. Good work everyone.

Speaker 2:

Keep trying, you've got this, you got it. Come chat to us, send us a message on Instagram if you need. Yeah, if you've noticed this or just started noticing it and you need a little bit of untangling, yeah, all right. Yeah, all right, bye-bye.

Speaker 1:

Bye. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Not so Kind Regards podcast. We hope you enjoyed it. If you did, we would really appreciate if you left a review, on whatever streaming platform you are using. It helps us to grow as a brand new podcast and to help many more business owners and content creators reach their goals, just like we hope this brought you one step closer to your. Remember, connect with us on TikTok, at Maddie Birdcage and at Birdcage Marketing, and the same handles on Instagram again, and if you really want to learn how to work with us, make sure you head to our website and book a call. We would love to speak with you.