Not-So Kind Regards

How Vision (Not Hustle) Builds Resilient Brands with Sabbia Co.’s Katie Tingle

• Maddy Birdcage & Caroline Moss

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Success isn’t about grinding 24/7, it’s about having a clear vision and trusting it through the highs and lows. In today’s episode, Caroline Moss and Maddy Birdcage sit down with Katie Tingle, founder of Sabbia Co., a skincare brand where plant-based medicine meets cosmetic science. We discussed what sustains a long-term business: alignment, resilience, and staying true to your purpose.

Katie, a Full Library™ student, gets real about the moment she almost walked away from it all, the mindset shift that brought her back, and how she rebuilt a business that now feels more fulfilling, aligned, and profitable than ever. If you’ve ever felt like giving up, this episode is for you.

Episode Highlights

  • Why vision beats hustle when it comes to lasting success
  • The moment Katie almost shut down Sabbia Co. and what changed her mind
  • How brand psychology and audience schemas helped her rebuild with clarity
  • The danger of chasing short-term revenue without a long-term mission
  • The 1% rule and why tiny, intentional interactions create customer loyalty
  • The power of organic content and top-of-funnel marketing for sustainable growth
  • How trusting the right people in your team can help you step back

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Speaker 1:

the previous 12 months before, when we just had that tax return. June meeting, our accountant was like what the fuck did you do this year? And I was like I don't know. He was like we like 5X'd our profit and it's because of that, Like there's no other explanation. Like we didn't spend more money on ads because ads cost money and even to your profit anyway, Like to do that extra revenue for basically free.

Speaker 3:

Welcome to the Not so Kind Regards Podcast. I'm Maddie Birdcage and I'm Caroline Moss.

Speaker 2:

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Speaker 3:

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Speaker 3:

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Speaker 2:

Welcome back to another episode of Not so Kind Regards everyone. Today we have a very special guest on the show. We have Katie Tingle, the owner of Sabia Co, which is a skincare brand where plant-based medicine meets cosmetic science, and the focus for today's episode is going to be talking about leading with purpose, how it's the ultimate growth strategy. I can't wait to dive into this with you. We're also welcomed by, of course, maddie Birdcage, so welcome to both of you. Thank you. I'm so excited to get into this topic today. When we were brainstorming topics with Katie, she's like this is the number one thing that's grown your business, you reckon, katie?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, for sure. I've seen such a big difference, and not only in the, the profit and the revenue, but like enjoying myself instead of feeling like it's a fucking grind every day of the week, like I've decided to go to work and I love what I do again. That is the biggest thing.

Speaker 3:

I think I would love to, just straight off the bat, jump in and ruffle some feathers, because when people say it's leading with purpose and all those fluffy, wonderful good feeling words, what does that actually mean?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I think too, especially in this day and age there's so much fluff and it's really convoluting what it means to run like a successful business, and I think there's lots of like unauthenticness around the word.

Speaker 1:

For me, leading with purpose means that I love what I do every single day and I have a mission with where I'm going and what I'm doing, and it makes those days where shit does hit the fan a lot easier, because I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. I know where we're going in five or 10 years time, instead of getting bogged down with, like you know, a sales goal or some type of revenue goal. I can see the end goal and I can see the impact, and it just makes what I do every day so much more exciting. And also for my team to really understand the purpose of the brand. It helps them to feel excited about what they're doing every day too, because sometimes, when you're an employee, you feel a bit lackluster and you're wondering, like why do I give that extra 10% to the boss? So I think that, for me, is is what it's about. It's like yeah, it's purpose.

Speaker 3:

So I would challenge that.

Speaker 3:

Then I would say it's leading with a vision yeah, and if, if you really break down into looking at, like, what the big guys out there have done, what the billionaires have achieved, you'll see every single one of them. That's what they're doing as well. They're leading with a vision. They're not looking at. They don't get upset if oh my God, I didn't hit my revenue goal this month and I completely, I love that. That is where you've gotten to with your own journey and that that's what you're modeling for other people, because I think it's so easy with how e-commerce gets spoken about online. It's so short term, it's so short visioned, it's so all about just hitting that revenue month or selling out of this product. And it's like, once I know with myself, once you start hitting those goals consistently, you almost have, if you're not leading with a vision or a purpose, you probably you'll have like a crisis and you're like what the fuck am I actually? Why am I doing all of this?

Speaker 1:

And it gets to the point like I'm sure you've experienced this feeling, because I know we both had a similar journey of feeling like we're almost about to like lose our dream businesses and then to get it back and to be at a point where you're making a lot of money, like money doesn't begin to really have much meaning anymore and I feel like for me, I've never really been driven by the money or the revenue or like fancy things. So having that purpose or that vision is what strives me to go every day. Otherwise I would just give up and I'd not be into it For sure.

Speaker 3:

I mean, I would love to dive deep into this journey of getting to where you are now, because if we think about a lot of e-commerce brand or any business owner who's currently at a point where they are struggling to get the revenue that they want in their business, of course they're going to be so focused on the money. So can you talk to? I mean, share, share, share the journey, share when it all went balls up and then share how we ended up at this point where you're literally an orb of glowing light on the other end of the screen well, the reason why we started Sabiaco was I struggle with my skin after coming off the pill.

Speaker 1:

I couldn't find anything that would work. I really started to uncover that pretty much everyone was lying in their marketing campaigns about being clean or green or natural or even understanding what it takes to clear skin with plant-based medicine instead of like proactive or something that's going to bleach your towels and probably upset your hormone health. So that was the reason there was such a big passion and a personal passion, because I was so invested like I didn't have skin confidence and I'd always, always wanted that. So starting the brand had so much passion and so much like empathy for people on that struggle and that is how I think we launched and blew up quickly. We sold out in the first eight weeks and I had to quit my job because we didn't really know what we were doing. We just had a crack and I had to quit my job because we didn't really know what we were doing. We just had a crack and I had a vision and I was like I just want to try this and then we had like really great growth. But I guess, if I could go back or I can share any advice. We didn't have a plan, and I mean that's okay. But when you start hiring people and you don't have a plan or a vision or an onboarding process, you don't get the right people in your business. Then your message starts to get kind of almost watery because this person's saying this, this ad agency is saying this, and I felt like I got to this point where I had my dream business but I hated it. I didn't like anything about the business. I didn't like my team that came to work every day I'd avoid going into the warehouse because I didn't want to be with them. I felt like the ad agency we were working with just didn't get the messaging. I would see ads and be like it doesn't even make sense.

Speaker 1:

And then I had a really personal goal to have my first child and I kind of got to a point where I was like fuck it, I've given it three years. I just want to have this experience. I want to have my baby, I want to be at home with him and whatever will be will be. I just fully surrendered to the experience of. It was on my heart and I needed to experience that with my family. And then it all went to shit. I think we oh my God it was awful being in my first three months of postpartum and seeing being in the red every single month and and not having the time or the energy to come in and make good content or things that I knew worked, or not having that passion or that drive. And I really got to a point where, like we had some serious conversations about just just pulling the plug, like I even said today like just put all the stock at the tip, like I can't even be fucked to have a closing down sale, like I'm just, I'm done.

Speaker 1:

And then, um, I am quite a spiritual person and I do obviously do a lot of mindset work, which is why I love what you guys offer and the way that you structure marketing around mindset, because I think there's such a big key part to running a business and marketing well with the right mindset. And I kind of had a big vision board planning kind of session and I just ended up saying, if this is what I'm meant to be doing, give me like a sign and I will. I'll put Louis into daycare, I will give it this one last shot, I'll put in like 20 grand of our own money and just give it a reboot. And that day, unpromptedly, I think we had like 50 people message us and be like you've saved my life, you've saved my confidence. Like my skin has never been better. We got all these reviews like it was actually mind-blowing. We'd get a couple here and there every day, but it was just this massive volume of people being like please don't give up and I know it was like the universe supporting what I had asked for. And then I was like okay, go back to Dave and be like all right, we're not selling the business, so we're not going to close down. I'm going to give it one more go.

Speaker 1:

And I think that's when I fired everyone and I took it back to like that grassroots feeling Like I was packing, I was doing ads, I was doing everything with my like six-month-old son at work with me in the warehouse. But it felt good again. It felt like that's why I started the business, that's why I had that passion and I was doing it every day again and then got to a point where obviously we were getting so busy again that I couldn't do all of those jobs anymore. And that's when I actually found Maddie on TikTok and I was like okay, I have hated working with agencies in the past. I don't really like doing the ads, I don't really know how to do the ads.

Speaker 1:

But what can I like? How can I do this? I need some type of resource. I need to be able to put my passion and what's in my brain into my content, into a brand deck so that no matter who walks in the door to help me with Savia Co, they get it like right down to the core, to the way that our customer feels and thinks about not only their skincare but their day-to-day lifestyle and their routines and their habits. And that's when I think Maddie and I had done a couple of back and forth calls and I decided to do the full library and I had all of that in my brain, like doing the exercises and learning about that, like deep, you know their archetypes and all these words that I had never really heard of. I was like I know these people, like this isn't hard for me, like it was so easy and fun and our customers have the same archetype as me and the brand, which is like a trifecta. Obviously I'm doing the right thing with the right circle, so that makes it easier for me.

Speaker 1:

But now, when we're onboarding people, it's so easy like I don't look at resumes. I don't give a shit about their experience. To be honest, I ask about their habits, about their routine, about their mindset. When they're having a bad day, what do they do? Do they feel comfortable to explain that? And it's always like every time we hire someone, they're like that was the weirdest interview ever and I was like well, that's like, that's how we do it. And now we have a team of such aligned, beautiful humans that get it. And like, when our customers come in to do click and collect or whatever it is, and I watch the girls interact with them, I'm like that's me, that's how I do it. And you know, you can't really teach that personality trait to your staff. They have it ingrained in them. You just need to be able to like inspire them and excite them about what you're doing. That's the story.

Speaker 3:

Holy moly, oh my God, katie, I literally was like about to cry. What.

Speaker 2:

I know, I was too. I was crying, then chills, then inspire. I think.

Speaker 3:

For me it's like our stories are so similar. First of all, like we literally went through the same thing of of it falling apart because we we lost sight and lost control, and then having the courage to not give up and keep going, because I had the same conversations with Jack, my husband he's not in the business, but it was literally like if things aren't fixed by this date, we're out, type thing, which was wild. And then in yeah it's to, to go in and have to like let go of more than half your team and then get back on the tools and rebuild it again. But you rebuild it bigger and better than you could have possibly before 100%.

Speaker 1:

There's no staff member, gm, anyone that I could have hired to put it in the position it's in now. And I'm so grateful that I saw that and I felt that like I knew it had to come from me and I think that's I guess that's what I resonated so much about with you is, you know, we had done a not a similar program, but a very well-known ad learning program before I found you and it was just the complete opposite. It was like go on sale, lower your prices. Like volume metrics, like doesn't matter if you're not making a big profit. It's like if you're doing 2% profit but you're selling you know 5,000 things, that's all that matters. And I was like no, it doesn't, like that's well, not for me.

Speaker 1:

And that's what's important to understand when you own a business or whenever you're doing. Whatever you're doing is like it doesn't matter what you see working for somebody else. You need to really understand what's going to work for you and make you feel good, because it is like it's shiny object syndrome in the marketing world, like every agency is going to tell you whatever you want to hear. But I loved that about you, that there was that, that focus on the mindset piece on knowing who you truly are and being comfortable with doing that. Like I showed up after not sleeping all night and breastfeeding and doing my skincare routine, looking like absolute shit. But I didn't care because I was like, nah, these are my customers, these are my community, and the same as me in the morning.

Speaker 3:

That's what I was about to say, that it's like you showing up, like that is what resonates with them.

Speaker 2:

What was the moment, katie, when you were like because you were probably so deep in the rebuilding mode that you didn't maybe have a lot of time to like reflect and think and think about this whole vision stuff that we're talking about now? So what was kind of that moment, that light switch where you're like, oh, this is all, this is all working towards something bigger, like I've got a vision, now I've got purpose, like was that slow or was that like a?

Speaker 1:

oh, I've got this, it all clicks now this is like a really random thing to share and I really was on the fence if I would share it or not, because it's very controversial.

Speaker 3:

But that's what you guys are about yeah, I mean, I'm here for it, go please you can't not tell us.

Speaker 1:

I've done a lot of shamanic work, like a lot of shamanic healing, and I've always known that I would have something big and great with the business. I've always known that. I think that's why I just couldn't walk away. But in September last year I was slowly building the team. The revenue was getting big and I was like, okay, it's getting hard again, I need to have more people. But I couldn't. It started getting blurry again and I was like I can't let that happen again.

Speaker 1:

So I worked with a shaman and I did a psychedelic journey, like an eight hour journey, and it was intense, so so intense. I was absolutely terrified. I almost pulled out. But I was like I just know I have to do this and I just I saw it so clearly, like so, so clearly. And then I chose to work with him over the past couple of months to really bring that like real vision that I saw into some type of onboarding process, some type of strategy, so that when we are growing like there's that handbook almost, and then also like just before that and I guess how I kind of briefed him into the brand was I don't know what the document's called, but in the full library where you make your pretty much a brand deck your strategy.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, like I kind of presented that to him and he was like you've gone a little bit too business. Like you're such a empathic, vision-based person. He's like if you were to, you know, put this to a board member and say, join my company, you're not going to be happy because they're not going to get it. Like it's not going to work. Things like you need to get really deep into those like core feelings and values and beliefs.

Speaker 1:

And then, yeah, working with him over the last couple of months, I just feel so clear on the vision, and so do our team, and we have like just such a different way of processing things. Like the girls have KPIs but they don't feel like that and I asked so many weird and wonderful questions with them about you know stuff on those types of topics. So now I know how to work with them and get them on board with the mission. But yeah, that's how it got so crystal clear. It was such a transformative experience for me. It was just like to be able to visualize when you're meditating, where you're going is one thing, but to be able to like journey through it for eight hours and feel it and experience it and truly like coming out with that knowing and that trusting of I'm not putting something on a vision board. Like this is happening. It's really shifted it, for me.

Speaker 3:

I'm so interested in this, but it freaks me out yeah, it freaked me out.

Speaker 1:

I I had some the the Monday before we did it. I was like, oh, I don't, I don't really want to do it. And he's like why? And I was like this is fucking terrifying and I'm losing control. Yeah, and that's what he said. He's like your it's now time, like your business is waiting for you to now surrender. You've given it everything that you can possibly give it. You need to be able to let it have a go now. Basically Like it's time to surrender.

Speaker 1:

And that's what always came up in like the shamanic stuff. She was like you've got such a tight grasp on it. And I'm like, yeah, because I almost lost it, like as if I'm not going to have a tight grasp on it. But that piece of learning to really just surrender and trust and also putting trust in the people that help you on your mission, like whether that's your team or whoever you have in your circles, it also helps them to step up that little bit more. And that's what I've seen since being, you know, since fully surrendering in that experience and then now surrendering with the team and being like okay, like you've got it, just have a crack. And they're like oh, okay, like all right, we'll just see what happens.

Speaker 3:

Like it's really shifted it. Yeah, I mean, I'm exactly the same. It's like I always tell the team you've got this and I'll back up whatever decision you make. But I always tell the team you've got this and I'll back up whatever decision you make. But I think you can really only do that if you've got the right people in your team. And that all then comes back to that the strategy, the vision that you have and, as you said, unconventional interview practices. I'm exactly the same. I don't care if people have degrees. What their experience is like, it's like what kind of person are they?

Speaker 2:

Are they?

Speaker 3:

trustworthy? Are they problem solvers, do they? I don't even know what the criteria is, but it's just like I make sure my dog's there to suss around. Yeah, he's like, and I'm like, if they're not dog people and I'm like, I'm like, I'm suspicious. Um yeah, and it's like you can. You couldn't have done that with your team previously. Like the reason you can let go now is because you've brought the right people in.

Speaker 1:

Even like something that I I did really love about in the course that I did with you guys was like I think it is it the archetypes, or it's like the caregiver, or or I didn't want it to be the caregiver, cause I was like I'm not fucking everyone's mum, like I don't want to be that.

Speaker 1:

But then when I kind of flipped my mind on it, I was like they're the people that I like in my corner, they're our customers, that's how they talk to me and that's kind of I feel like having that deeper understanding and a bit of psychology around, like who my customers are, how to communicate with them, like even with the girls, with customer service, for example. It helps them like really understand that everyone's an empath. And like saying something like at the end of an email, like if you have any further questions, like saying it with a bit of love, or you know, I hope you love your new skincare. That simple one sentence really changes their journey with the brand, because it's they're like, oh, like that's you're talking to my heart, whereas most people don't think about that like one percent extra definitely, and I want to really highlight that and and bring it out.

Speaker 3:

For example, if your archetype was the hero, for example, which is much more speaking to people who are about purely driven by results, like success at all costs type thing, you wouldn't sign an email off as hope you love your skincare. It would be more about. I mean, caroline, you can probably jump in here, it would be like your skin. Skin's gonna beat everybody else's, I don't know yeah, can't wait for your skin to crush it.

Speaker 2:

Can you imagine a skincare brand? Maybe I'll try that, who knows? Yeah, because if you're like focusing just on acne or different things, yeah, I'm going to say that I could see some skincare brands actually being the hero.

Speaker 3:

Proactive does come to mind only because you mentioned it, but I feel like, oh, I can't think it'd be a very masculine skincare.

Speaker 1:

I feel like a supplement brand would be doing that, for sure.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, it's like you're about to hit greatness, like literally what they would sign it off with, and it's like you signing that off in your emails. People would be like, okay, weird vibe, but just a thumbs up.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, it just doesn't align. I love how you've taken because obviously, in the full library, the first step is to do this strategy work. The second step is then to create the content and the mindset is like a constant thing that happens. But I love that you've taken it even further and you're not just using this strategy for your marketing but, like your shaman has seen your strategy, like you're doing it for personal growth as well. But it's also then your customer service and how you interact on every single touch point, and really so it should you know, oh, it should and it's so true, like when, when a customer has seen us on an ad for the first time, never heard of the brand.

Speaker 1:

They might have done a skin consultation with me, then they might be local to the gold coast and they're going to come click and collect their order when they meet me. It's the weirdest experience but I feel like such a dickhead saying this. But it's almost like I'm a celebrity and the first thing they always say is you're exactly like the ad I saw or the conversation we had. You're exactly like the ad I saw or the conversation we had and I was like to me. That's the biggest compliment of all, because I want to incorporate that vision and the way I want people to feel at every point of the journey and it makes me feel like I've done my job right as a founder to be able to do that.

Speaker 1:

Or if I'm on a call and I see the girls have that interaction when they pick it up and they ask the little questions that instead of just being like oh yeah, here's your automatic like have a good day, they're like have you tried the brand or do you want to try this sample or what? It's just that extra like one percent really makes a difference and I think when you think of startup e-commerce brands, they don't care about that 1%. They just see, like someone that they followed on TikTok, start a brand and now they have a Range Rover Like you know, and they're just like I want that.

Speaker 1:

And then they get to a point where they're like why am I doing this? I hate what I'm doing, I'm not surrounded by people that I like and at the end of the day, my Range Rover is, I'm in heaps of debt. Like I'm in heaps of debt, like I'm in this position and I don't even like what I'm doing and I've got all this debt around me now like people have forgotten why you should be starting businesses.

Speaker 3:

I think anyway, I feel like this is something I mean. Caroline is so filled in with everything, like my own existential crisis that probably kicked off in September last year, but it's like my G-Wagon was was a big goal for me a very long time ago and I got it and now I'm like I actually couldn't care less, like I really I don't care.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, we say Maddie's entering her soft girl CEO era.

Speaker 1:

Oh, I'm doing the same.

Speaker 3:

And I'm loving it. All I want to do is be in my garden and like so clothes like what the fuck?

Speaker 1:

who have I become? We literally, like we have our birthday in September and then we obviously have Black Friday in November and in that like six week or eight week period, we did like more revenue than we did in the past, like 24 months, yeah, and every ounce of me and I also felt pregnant so I was in my first trimester, so it wasn't ideal and every ounce of me was like just keep pushing, katie, like just keep pushing, keep doing stories, keep you know like hustle, hustle, hustle. And then I just got to this point one day and I was like I give a shit, I don't care if we don't make any sales for the rest of the year, like I'm celebrating this and it's the first. I took six full weeks off, like didn't plan it.

Speaker 1:

One day I was just like I'm not coming back in until the 6th of January and the girl's like okay, what do you want us to do? I was like it'll just be fine, like just. And then we like have just had the biggest January ever and I've not I've probably posted on Instagram like 10 times like I'm getting back into it this week sent like two emails since November and I'm like you know, it is possible. I think people keep telling you you need to just be like hustling hard. If you, if you've got a vision and you do the work, and the work is intentional, you don't have to work as hard because the work is more powerful and people forget that.

Speaker 2:

I want to highlight two things there. One is we talk about authenticity so much and like what we do and coming back to you, reflecting the way you want to show up, is how you are in person, your team showing up the same way, like that, that's what authenticity means to me and like you could have identified that archetype and go that's not what I want to be, but it's finding that middle ground, that it's like. This is how I show up for my customers and how I want them to feel with every touch point of the brand, and it still feels authentic to me. And the second one was that we say what happens three months from now is because of the marketing you're doing right now, and so because you showed up and you hustled a little bit, but then you go okay, this is a sign that this stops now. It's not going to be my forever. I'm not going to stay on this cortisol high forever. I need to give myself a break now. And you listen to your body and then look at the results yeah, for sure.

Speaker 1:

And I think like when you look at the things that I was doing in the business three months ago I would say from like May to September the content I was creating didn't really have too much to do with skin and lots of people around me who have businesses were like I don't really get too much to do with skin and lots of people around me who have businesses were like I don't really get what you're doing, katie, you're not selling your products and I was like that's not what my social media for the business is about. It's about going back to those core values of why our customers want to engage with us. They want to become the best version of themselves. Our mission as a brand is to help people embody themselves to become the best version of themselves. Our mission as a brand is to help people embody themselves to become the best version of themselves. Choose yourself every day.

Speaker 1:

Skincare is one thing that you do every day what you eat, how you clean your house, the way you talk to yourself.

Speaker 1:

I started incorporating a lot more of that into my content One.

Speaker 1:

It made it funner for me because there's only so many videos you can make about how to do your skincare routine. It gets boring for me, but it made it fun again. And then this whole new community of people came in that were like here's a business that has such a core mission that they don't even care about selling their products. They just want their customers and their community to feel good. And then now it's like like it's still just generate. Those videos are still just popping off in the background and I'm like I don't need to work as hard because I've put intention into that work and I can have a break and then I can go again and when I feel inspired to do that next time I'll bang it out again. But I know what works this time, instead of being like doing that same repetitive, boring routine video or using influencers that don't align with the brand or aren't authentic caroline, I'd love for you to break down why, what katie did, why it works so katie's obviously using top of funnel content strategy.

Speaker 2:

That's what you'd say, katie, yeah, yeah, um, so you mapped out content that's relatable, aspirational or controversial to create attention. That's what we do at the top of the funnel, and when you have other platforms like email and stories and everything else that you're doing, that's where you're building trust and that's where you can make sales. So this is what people get so wrong all the time. It's like they make their feed just about the product and like nobody cares anymore. Like really, like I follow up, brings them like oh, cool photos, but then I never look at it again and the way the algorithms are, it never gets shown to me again. Versus like somebody showing up and being authentic and teaching me how to clean my house with I've signed up to one of your lead magnets about like the lemon peels yeah, it's fucking genius.

Speaker 1:

And then lemon peels yeah, it's fucking genius. And then, like you know what, I I never created that content because I know we went on a few calls and I was like I know the persona, blah, blah, blah. But I just couldn't, yeah, I just couldn't be bothered, maybe to to figure out what to do. And then, when I gave it a break one day, I just decided to make like some. I think I made like a low-tox laundry powder and I talked about like you sleep on your pillow for eight hours if you've got like bleach it's gonna mess up your skin, but I did. I ended up sharing like 10 low-tox recipes.

Speaker 1:

And a cheeky little thing because I know everyone listening loves marketing is that I use many chat and they had to comment to get the recipe.

Speaker 1:

But that comment sent them to our website, which means they got on our pixel for advertising. So then they've seen my face once being like, okay, she's a low tox expert. Then they're seeing my videos in ads of me talking about my skin or about formulating and they're like okay, like we know that she knows her shit around, like clean ingredients and clean living, and now I didn't know that she has this skincare brand and then when we did the birthday sale we only do two sales a year, so when we did the birthday sale we were like rattled, we almost wanted to turn it off because it was so massive that we were like I don't even understand these numbers. And I honestly think it's because we built that funnel so big through those videos that when we went on sale everyone had been seeing us a little bit and they're like, okay, they never go on sale, I'm just going to get it and then Black Friday came around and it's like two to three months later when the products run out, and then we're still generating that funnel.

Speaker 1:

But then there's all these people who are like second-time customers and they're like, oh, I'm getting it, getting it again because it actually works. And then we also have the return customers that we've been nourishing and like really caring for for five years and I was just like, wow, I didn't even like plan for that to happen and that's the best strategy ever Surrenders.

Speaker 3:

When people do what we say it works. So can you give us like some indication of numbers so before you started using like top of funnel content and like using the strategy from the full library and our funnel and everything like, what kind of difference did that make in your bottom line?

Speaker 1:

revenue. When you look at actual revenue, like the previous 12 months before, when we just had that tax return, june meeting our accountant was like what the fuck did you do this year? And I was like I don't know. He was like we like 5x'd our profit and I it's because of that, like there's no other explanation. Like we didn't spend more money on ads because ads cost money and even to your profit anyway. Like to do that extra revenue for basically like free. Yeah, I've got girl mouth brain.

Speaker 3:

That's correct. I mean, that's how I look at it as well.

Speaker 1:

Well, we kept the ads, then the same because I was like well, ads is always like helping get new people and helping those people who have gone to the website after seeing the recipe like it all works holistically. But never before doing that stuff did we really have an organic funnel, like every now and then a funny video or a filling video or something would do well, but there was like weeks and weeks of every single video doing over like 10,000 to 100,000 views. Because people were like I want to learn how I can make a $3 laundry detergent that's better for my house. As if you wouldn't want to learn how to do that.

Speaker 3:

So I want to touch on a few things. So ManyChat is something that we have started to use in the last few months as well, but specifically, like all the things that you've kind of mentioned, all of the benefits of the full library. So, getting the strategy piece done, aligning your authenticity with your business, creating an organic marketing funnel on your socials where you don't like the ad spend thing, that's not even a factor at this stage. I'm using ManyChat sequences, all of that. That's what our express mode program that we that is launching at the end of january, all of those pieces is what we've created into our express mode program and we get ai to actually write the strategy for them oh, so good it is.

Speaker 3:

So this is, this is what we've identified all of the things that you've benefited from as a brand. That's what we've basically taken out and put into express mode. We've still got the full library in existence and it will continue to grow and get even better for marketers and, I would even argue, brand owners like yourself that are naturally quite good at marketing and also want to know all the little, the nuts and bolts behind why we do things. But it's like having it's so simple, it's having top of funnel content that doesn't talk like, doesn't sell anything. You're literally just getting people to know that you exist but then guiding them through to either your website through a many chat sequence or getting them on your email list, because then you can retarget through ads or retarget through email or even just something that we're doing a lot now is like just nurturing people in the DMs, like actually just having genuine conversations with people, genuine conversations with people.

Speaker 1:

I do that and we do voice note, voice messaging, because you don't have enough time to write back to every single person, but it makes it a lot easier to get back to everyone. If you can just do a voice note, then it humanises you and people are like wow, the founder of that brand gives a shit about me. That's not a staff member, that's not a computer, that's her voice. I've seen it in ads. We get that all the time and I'm like I like doing that.

Speaker 3:

I know that it makes them feel cared for. How much time do you spend a week voice noting and like speaking individually? The reason I want to call this out is because I feel like no one online talks about this individual nurture. And you see, all of these marketing coaches that are like this is how I made a million dollars and I just I did Automated off, yeah, and you don't. They don't say that in the background they actually spend like hours and hours one-on-one nurturing. So how much time do you think you spend chatting to your customers.

Speaker 1:

I have a treadmill and I do an hour every day and that's it. I leave it to that. I have that segment in time that I leave it for for voice noting on Instagram and then I do our one-on-one skin consultations and we probably get like five to 10 of those a day. But the girls will do, like the first, you know, couple of questions that don't really need my brain in them yet. And then by the time I'm doing that final email, I know like where they're at with their skin, I know what to recommend for them and we're honest with that. Like the first couple of emails aren't from me and then the last one, I'm like hey, maddie, thanks so much for sharing everything. I've read over all your details. Like this is what I recommend. It's it's me. If you need to talk to me in the future, let me know.

Speaker 3:

Basically, I love this so much. You've literally you've you've bridged this model between online and offline selling, and this is something that I I really, if you're an e-commerce brand owner, you need to do this, and I want you to take Katie as an example. I'm getting goosebumps talking about this. See how she's doing the things. She's going the extra mile. First of all, she's investing in programs, and she's invested in not just our program, but other programs as well. She's taking what resonates, what works with her, and she's doing the thing, not just knowing that she has to do it, she's actually doing it. Then she is going to step further and creating an in-store experience online.

Speaker 1:

I think this is something I've said to like, obviously, I've made a lot of friends who have businesses now and they they've seen that growth, like it can't be hidden, what happened in the last 12 months for us, and they're like, oh, like, how did you do that? And no one wants to work anymore. And like I know on myself, like I'm preparing to have another baby and I'm I'm a bit nervous. I'd be lying if I'm not, like I can't give it what I've been giving it for the last 12 months. But I'm pretty certain in the systems I've put together, that I will still be on a treadmill for an hour a day at some point. With a newborn strapped to me. I can do that task. Yeah, I can have my baby in content. I've done that before.

Speaker 1:

But I think nobody really wants to work anymore. They see that shiny person who's tripled their business or whatever they've done, and they're like, okay, like that looks really easy. I'm just going to get that agency, I'm going to get that influencer, I'm going to get that and I'm going to get this product that's trending and it's like everyone's doing that. That's why it doesn't work. People want to find that humanized experience, like you're shopping in a store but no one wants to go in store anymore.

Speaker 1:

Like, how do you create that for your community so that they feel like like the amount of people that tell me they screen record our stories because they want to repeat, watch it? And I'm like it's like me and they're like I just want to listen to that again and I'm like that that's when I know I'm doing something different. You know, like, yeah, I've never, I've never watched a brand. I don't follow any brands, even if I love them. I've never watched their stories. I don't look at their content because it's that I don't care. Like I like the product. I've bought it. I don't need to know about the product. Like I don't feel like brands are nurturing their customers anymore. They're not giving them the tools to elevate their life with whatever their product is. Like whether you sell confidence for clothing, like clothing for confidence or for us, it's like I don't even know what we do anymore. It's gotten to this point.

Speaker 3:

We're just making people wellness coach.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, but that's like the skincare is like the 1% of what we do. It's like and it's not the thing that we ever really talk about anymore.

Speaker 3:

You're solving a problem for them. So I mean, if you can, what are the plans for Sabiaco then, like where are we going, where are we doing laundry detergents, like what's happening?

Speaker 1:

no, I think I've got a very clear on the fact that we will be known for skincare. I don't want to like dilute what we do I love. I personally am, as an individual, live a very low-totop, minimal lifestyle and to make content around that is enjoyable for me and I understand what that gives our community. It's helping them be that best version, which is our vision. We're just going to keep grinding. It's not grinding, but it's like keep showing up. If 1% of the world right now is buying Sabia, then it's going to get to 100% at some point and we're just focusing on that.

Speaker 1:

We're not getting worried about products or ingredients that are trending. We're just doing what we're good at and we're showing up every day with the right people. We're having fun, we're resting. We're like being a model individual for our customers so that they know, wherever they're at at life, like there is that opportunity to do better and to feel better, and I feel like that's my role at the moment. Is it being a role model for my community, to show them that when you take that little extra care in yourself, like where it propels you in your future, whether you want to own a business or be a mom or be good at your job or have a nice garden, like wherever you're going, like I feel like my. Now my role is to just be that role model, to show my community that it's possible and give them the tools to help them get there 100%.

Speaker 3:

I love that so much. What advice would you give to business owners that's my final question too. Yeah who may be starting whether they've experienced something like us, where they've grown their business, they've toppled it down and now they're rebuilding again, or maybe they're building for the first time. What are the actionable advice steps that you would give them?

Speaker 1:

I think really getting back to that drawing board of like, why are you doing it? What does the product that you're creating, what is the purpose behind it? Because if it's just a trending hair clip, like I'm sorry, but start again, like, why do you want to own a business? I think is the most important question. Because there's two people. There's people who have, like a passion and they want to solve an issue, like me, and then there's people who just want to like build a huge business and sell it and they keep doing that and that's completely fine.

Speaker 3:

Like there's passion in that, yes, I was about to say. Do you know what they're passionate about? They're passionate about business.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I, I, I love starting businesses. I still don't like running them. I don't know how I can get rid of running the business and just do the bit I like. But I think that's what you really need to ask yourself, because there's no longer that period of starting a business and having a trending product that gets you there anymore. That period is done. That TikTok business or product I truly believe is done. That opportunity is gone.

Speaker 1:

And this next opportunity for business owners is like giving that experience to customers, that and really understanding like what are customers seeking? Like they spend so much time online but they're so lonely, like how can we be giving? And I think that's what it comes down to. Like if you want to be a business owner, you really almost have to be an empath. You have to care, like to to do it well If you're selling anything, I think anyway, but getting like really down into your purpose and your mission and actually asking yourself, like, how much are you going to commit to this? Because if you want to go out with the girls Friday, saturday, sunday night and go to the beach half the week, like that's fine, but you won't be in this position. I don't think like if you do, great. But I think it's about understanding what you're prepared to give and being authentic and true to yourself the whole way along the journey. Like you know the experiences that we had and having those conversations and being really open and raw and honest. That takes like a very big person to have those conversations and to be honest and to not walk away and to seek help and advice. And you don't get help and advice if you can't be honest about how you're feeling or where you're at or your numbers.

Speaker 1:

Like I've told you, maddie, like a bunch of things that two years ago I wouldn't have told anyone. I would have been like I don't want anyone to know that my business is going to shit, like I'm not telling anyone that. And then I ended up telling my whole community on Instagram. Like never in my world would I have imagined that I would have showed up and put that on stories. So, yeah, I think yeah, so much. I have so many things that you need to do.

Speaker 1:

But I think it's that and like I'm not someone who has a marketing plan we still don't have a marketing plan Couldn't tell you what I'm going to post tonight on Instagram. Like that's not how I run, because I am very intuition led and that works for me, but for some people that doesn't work. So understanding, like how do you want your business to operate? And if I had a team doing our social media, that wouldn't work. So it's understanding, like, what are you building? What are you creating? Like, what's the outcome and the goal.

Speaker 1:

And for me, until the day that I no longer have Saviaco, I am the social media manager and I never would have thought that at the start I tried to give that job away. Like that was one of the first jobs I tried to give away and then it just ruined the messaging and I was like, well, that's my job, I'll make the skincare and I'll do stories and someone can do all the rest because that doesn't need me to do it Exactly, and that's how I operate as well me to do it Exactly, and that's how I operate as well.

Speaker 3:

And I want to highlight the fact that you don't have a planned social media schedule of what you're going to post this week. Neither do I, but you really can only do that if you have a clear brand strategy where you know every post you do is going to be some variation of what you wrote in that original strategy.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, like I know the core of what it's going to be, it's going to be making people feel good. Yeah, whether I decide to do a recipe or a video about mom life, or a skin journey or whatever it is like, I don't know what it will be, but it will be something that goes down to that core vision of making our people feel better.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, exactly. Sorry, Caroline, do you have any other?

Speaker 2:

questions. Thank you so much for your time, katie, and like, for just bringing all of this advice and knowledge, and wisdom and vulnerability, and like everything that you've brought to us, like, what a special episode thank you, thank you for what you're doing with your, your brand and your personal brand business and and I literally wrote down it's 2025 is the rise of the empathic entrepreneur.

Speaker 3:

That's me, that's you, that is me, that's that's like, that's what's going to win these drop shipping, these scammy, like in it for one product that's dead, that's gone. It's the, it's the empaths, it's the people that truly care, the ones that are willing to put in the work. You don't have to put in the work forever. Like you said, you took six weeks off and you're you're gonna like, hopefully, have another baby very soon. You're gonna need to take some time away as well, but it's like there are seasons and when you're in those seasons, you double down and that's, I mean, good, old-fashioned hard work.

Speaker 1:

Yeah and I think that's what I said earlier Like people don't want to do the work anymore. But if you can really look at your life and understand the seasons that you're in and like embrace them, like just before I fell pregnant, I have never been more attractive, like it was mind-blowing. Like we literally looked at this house I'm sitting in, we didn't have our tax return down, we didn't have any shit organized and I was like I got tears in the bathroom. I was like this is the house that I want. And two weeks later we got the keys and Dave was like how the fuck did you do that? And I was like I'm in fuck, did you do that? And I was like I'm in that state.

Speaker 1:

And that's when I was making the content. It was very attractive, like all the things was just bringing people in. And then I got tired, my energy was zap and I was like okay, time to tap out, time to step back. Yeah, I think that people don't. They don't get that in business. Like they don't get that you should have those cycles and to really like nurture yourself. Otherwise you're not going to like what you do and you're going to do a shit job at it. So there's no point of doing it anyway. You might as well just have the day off.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I agree it's like, and that that is a mistake that I made when my business a few years ago was was struggling, I your initial instinct is to go in harder and hustle harder and work harder. That's actually not. That's not the solution, and the solution is to get really honest with yourself about what the fuck are you here to actually do and then focus on doing that. But I always relate it to a slingshot like a slingshot like you can't go forward unless you get pulled back, and it's like you go through these phases and then there's nothing like a human birth on the horizon to give you some deadlines either.

Speaker 1:

I had that six weeks and then I was like, oh my god, I literally two weeks ago I was like I don't want a business, like how do we sell it? Like I'm done, be a mom, yeah. And then Dave's like, all right, here we go again. Yeah, dave, we love Dave. Poor Dave, oh my god bless his soul. But then I was like this week I'm like, oh, I'm back, like I just needed to have that, I needed to have that time to be like I just needed a rest. I'm done, yeah. And now I can see, like you know, april I'm done again.

Speaker 3:

So tell us more. Where can we find you?

Speaker 1:

If we wanted to check your skincare, tell us about the consults that you mentioned. So I think the funnest place to get to know us is on Instagram. We're Sabia S-A-B-I-A-C-O. You're not going to really learn much about the skincare there. You're going to learn about the essence of our brand and what we're here to create and do for you. If you want to have a skin consultation because I mean, I guess I've not even really explained what Sabia Co is yeah, I am the formulator of our skincare brand, which means I make the actual recipes, the formulations.

Speaker 1:

I work with a dermatologist and a chemist to kind of like support the vision of what we're doing. We use potent plant extracts that are proven to heal the skin without any nasties that are going to upset your skin barrier, your hormones, your health. You can use them all through pregnancy, like they're so good for you, they're so nutrients dense. That's what we sell on our website, which is sabiacocom, and on there we do offer free skin consultations, because I think I'm just really tired of seeing brands like not give a shit about their people and they're like buy this cream, it's going to sort out your breakouts or your fine lines or whatever, and they don't. They don't have that duty of care and skincare is really overwhelming like it's overwhelming at the best of times, even if you kind of know what you're doing. So we offer the free skin consultations which are always done with myself.

Speaker 1:

We recently launched our starter kit program, which is like our best selling products. There's a couple of different ones and it's targeted to your skin concern, whether you've got breakouts or aging or, you know, redness and they are what we sell the most of every single day. It's mind-blowing. But yeah, I recently spoke about just how how proud I am to be able to deliver such quality products to people and see the difference it's making in their life. Obviously, we know how we feel when we feel confident in our skin, and that makes us more attractive in life to start the business or to meet the love of your life or to have those conversations that you're like if you have a breakout and you feel shitty about yourself, you're not going to do it. So for me, skincare is just so much more than a product you put on your face. It's like it's helping you become the best version of yourself, and I think that's what Cybeco really encapsulates, which I'm so proud to be able to say.

Speaker 3:

Congratulations, Katie. You're incredible. You've built an incredible business and I know I can't wait to see what happens next.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I'm very excited. We're focusing on subscriptions this month and it's just like a whole new way of making revenue that I've never thought of. It's a good idea. Yeah, yes, go around. Yeah, I'm excited. Thank you so much for always supporting me, too and giving me help with the marketing things, and I've had those moments where I'm like I don't want to fucking do it or I don't know what to do. Thank you.

Speaker 3:

Always here for it.