The Champion Within
This is a series with fascinating and inspiring people, and what it takes to be the best you can at whatever your endeavours may be.
We will learn from others as to how they have handled themselves in their own pursuits, and so that we can apply to ourselves.
We’ll talk about the necessary support and how important it is, to have the best and appropriate systems around us, so that we can be the best possible. We’ll discuss aspects of ourselves that we can all develop.
This is a show with inspiring people, including musicians, artists, athletes, medical specialists, business entrepreneurs and more…in the pursuit of excellence.
I’m Jason Agosta, a health professional and former athlete, and I'm fascinated in people’s stories, my own involves developing certain attributes over time, but also things that were not done well or were significantly missing.
Join me on The Champion Within in discovering that everybody has a story, and everybody has a message.
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The Champion Within
Ep.8 Sarah Jamieson: Triple Olympian 1500m Runner...Perseverance and Resilience
Prepare to be captivated by the incredible journey of triple Olympian over 1500 metres, Sarah Jamison, as she shares her experience, knowledge and insights into the world of running. How do high-performance athletes perceive recreational runners? Find out as Sarah unravels her decade-long journey of understanding the mindset of recreational runners and the significance of technique in running. From teaching kids the basics of hopping and skipping that form the foundation of running to the importance of proper form and technique, Sarah provides invaluable tips and advice for both young athletes and their coaches.
Sarah's story is not all about victories and podium finishes. It's a tale of resilience, perseverance, and mental toughness. Hear about her battle with lower leg issues that led to multiple surgeries before she could train at an elite level. Ever wondered what it takes to keep pushing through adversity? Sarah's determination and stubbornness are a testament to her inner strength and drive for excellence.
As we delve deeper into the conversation, Sarah opens up about the US college athletics system, its impact on Aussie athletes, and the struggles she faced while supporting young athletes in Australia. She discusses the opportunity the US college provides to athletes and the tactical racing lessons she had to teach herself. How does confidence play a role in big meets? Sarah reflects on the importance of confidence, the changes in the system, and her experience of missing out on the Beijing final. Wrapping up our chat, Sarah shares her experiences from three Olympics, her inspirations, and her life after running, offering younger athletes advice on how to stay composed, gain confidence, and seize every opportunity. This conversation with Sarah Jamison is filled with wisdom, resilience, and dedication that will inspire not just runners, but anyone with a dream and the will to pursue it.
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Welcome to episode 8 of the Champion Within, where we speak to fascinating people with inspiring stories. I'm Jason Agosta and today I speak with Sarah Jamison, a triple Olympian over 1500 metres who, with her history, epitomises, I would say, perseverance and resilience in getting back to training and running the Australian record and putting her on the Olympic journey that she's had. Today, sarah coaches young runners with a focus on basics and a real understanding of getting on their level. I have to apologise in advance for some sound quality, but this was too good not to put up and there are so many messages for the younger athlete. So you have the Perth Running Club which is coaching. Is it anybody or just children?
Speaker 2:We have a recreational adult group. I enjoy just the non-elite kind of side of it.
Speaker 1:Obviously you can just sense it that you've got that energy for running and giving guidance.
Speaker 2:Yeah, look, I think, jason, the thing that I'm retired I'm far from elite now I now understand them. It probably took me 10 or maybe 15 years to understand that mindset, like their mindset.
Speaker 1:So you're talking about the mindset of the recreational runners, taking you more than a decade to get it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, 100%. I was just always checking results and I think it's an obsession. When you're in it, you're obsessed with being the best you can be and being the fastest you know, doing as much training as your body can handle. So it just took a long time to, I guess, re-wire my brain. Yeah, it actually did. I thought about it a lot in the last couple of years because there's a bunch of girls that I sometimes jump in with here and run and they're my age. They were never elite runners, but their goal is now to break a three hour marathon and things like that. Yeah, I sometimes jump in to run with them and they talk non-stop about running and diet and the things that I spoke about, probably back when I was training, and not a rude way to them.
Speaker 2:but I feel like I've moved on and I now understand the mindset of a recreational runner, the person that wants to enjoy running for the two entities, like I said, vanity and sanity.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, so it sounds like you've just completely well. It's taken a little bit of time to just zoom out and see different perspectives. I think that's what you're saying.
Speaker 2:For sure, because when you're I mean probably from the age of, you know, 16, 17 up until when I retired at 35 I thought one way, and that was I have to run as hard as I can. I have to be the best I can be. I have to, you know, aim to be one of the world's best runners. So it's a big chunk of time to have that way of thinking, and I think to rewire your brain takes longer than Well, it's 20 years.
Speaker 1:You're talking 20 years of being at a certain level. Yeah, I did it. But do you find now that, because of this sort of, you've zoomed out and got a good perspective and you're on a better level with these people you're coaching now?
Speaker 2:Yeah, how do you?
Speaker 1:say it, you just like, can totally relate to them.
Speaker 2:And I guess I can understand, because my body is not a leech like it used to be. I'll go out, for you know, in an ideal world I'd jog four times a week, or maybe chuck a little session in or do something like that just to feel good.
Speaker 1:But then something's still there, see if there's a bit of you know, a bit of zip still there.
Speaker 2:But then I'll pull up and see all the next day and I think, wow, you know, and a lot of you know, recreational women they have. You know I can relate to a lot of their health problems, their injury problems that you just get through all the age, yeah.
Speaker 1:And post kids. Yeah, okay, I get it. Yeah, it's interesting, though, talking about that, because I think one of the things that's very poorly done at the other end of the spectrum is that you're talking about coming from an elite level and dealing with this recreational group and being on their level, but if you go back to where you were, I personally think it's done very, very poorly. The coaching aspect of getting on your level at that time and totally understanding you and developing you as a person and an athlete Not telling you what to do and helping you with your running but it sounds like you have recognised the changes from there to where you are now. You know quite obviously.
Speaker 2:And I think just on that, like a lot of recreational runners that are just doing it, they just want to do a half marathon for completion, or they want to run five kilometres without walking. They a lot of those kind of people are scared if you said, hey, I'm this, you know, ex-olympic runner, come and be coached by me. Yeah, a lot of people are fearful of coming to that level.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:And I get it like I understand probably why some people have that thought in their mind before they just think you're going to smash them when they're rock up. Exactly thinking is just going to be very, you know, a bit sterile, a bit military, like.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But you know other people, you know they, they see it differently and they think, wow, she must have experience.
Speaker 2:You know she's obviously you know, you know that level when I want to absorb that and I guess I coach a lot of kids, so kids are probably my biggest market and it's mainly recreational kids. So school terms, after school kids come for 45 minutes. We teach them pretty hardcore run technique for 10, 15 minutes because, as we all know, running is the base of what's in. I think If we teach kids how to move properly and I see so many kids these days it can't even hop and skip With our younger groups that five, six, seven girls, a lot of just sort of that basic motor.
Speaker 1:You know motor motor skills are poor.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, definitely. So a lot of those, you know. We're trying to teach those basics and then move into running technique. And and parents laugh it up because they want their kids to be able to move better. They want little Johnny to do better news, you know yeah, yeah. Because he comes last every year in the hundred meters. And how can we help him?
Speaker 1:Yeah, tell me when you, when you talk about teaching the kids technique, just briefly, because obviously you know, you know what I'm doing, you know daily, but how would? How do you simplify that? What are you focusing on? When you speak to junior and you say, right, we're gonna do this with our technique, I want you to hold yourself in a certain position. What are you actually passing on?
Speaker 2:Um, so it's really basic and I guess each, each week, we might only kind of focus on one thing but say you know just a basic of, and over the years I think I've got better at changing my lingo to really kind of Stripping back so kids understand. So he just yeah the simple as I just say hey, you're needs to look like the capital letter, l your armies to look like that. Yeah, he said a five year old. We need a 90 degree angle. Oh, but no idea what you're talking about yeah.
Speaker 2:It's a little bit of a capital L and when we sprint, you know, pocket your hand comes to your pocket, yeah, up to your eyes. So because I pocket to socket, so it's just coming up with those little yeah.
Speaker 1:I guess catchphrases that kids it's that I can relate to, yeah and so many parents go Wow, you know, it's you.
Speaker 2:My kids told me all about pocket to socket. That's one thing that we've kind of come. That's resonated, that's yeah, that's cool. It's fun. So just just the real basics, like action. Yeah every kid looks behind them to see who's coming behind them and Looks to the side to see if they're being the kid next to, and we just try and teach them. You know eyes for you know your posture means oh yeah, good point.
Speaker 1:You know what I'm so sick of? Seeing that even the most elite level, they've got no idea what it's doing to them.
Speaker 2:I know it's changing.
Speaker 1:I saw this in Eugene.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the other day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like it was just insane. Yeah it's like what is going on here. I mean talk about losing technique and your forward momentum. I mean the best middle distance runner in the world doing it with the guys. Yeah, I mean nearly got taken out, like you know what. I don't know what's going on.
Speaker 2:So hopefully the kids that we coach aren't watching these meets.
Speaker 1:Just yeah, yeah but there are perfect examples to the kids can watch.
Speaker 1:I mean, I'm not sure whether you and I spoke about it in the past, but you know I talk about this all the time that if when you watch the, the world-class races, you never really see anyone out of the top five who does not look beautiful and symmetrical and just upright and technically, you know, so efficient. Yeah, if you think about middle distance running in the distance running now, how it's progressed so much, I Personally think that if you compare 20 years ago to now, that top five or half a dozen are so efficient and Almost perfect with their technique. Obviously there's variations there, but there's there's characteristics which are common amongst a lot, whereas in the past I think maybe a lot of runners sort of got by, but now it is so intense and so so much faster that we see the people who can run efficiently and technically very well, with economy and movement. They have come through to the top and they're the ones running faster than anyone else. Yeah, I think that's a really common characteristic which and again going back to coaching is so poorly done.
Speaker 2:Yeah, look, I think it is. And I have parents come to me and say, oh, you know my kids now in a running group. The coach doesn't give any kind of technique feedback and I think that's a key too is trying to have small enough groups. We can give that Back and if kids can learn it at a young age it's very hard to undo a 30 year olds bad technique. It's if you, if someone's moved like that for you know so many steps in their life over 30 years, it's very hard to change it.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I'm pretty passionate about getting kids around. It's hard to kind of get the kid probably between five and seven to understand that and we we kind of trying to teach them all the basics of movement, so hopping, skipping, etc. But the kids that probably from eight and above, we really bang on about technique because I think now With the internet and there's so much information that's everyone's got access to about training and everyone's got access to the fancy carbon plated shoes and I think finding those one percent is you know, in your technique is it makes a difference, you know? Yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean that what you're talking about is there's a lot of distraction that goes around the core. The core point you need to emphasize is you and technique. Yeah, not about the fancy shoes, not about this certain magic training regime or whatever. People have lost sight of that for sure, there's no doubt. Can I ask you, if you go, we go back to your time when you were at your best, or even prior to that. Did you focus on technique much?
Speaker 2:No, not a lot, jayce. Like I mean, obviously we had, we did drills a bit. We probably saw drills more of, I guess, warm up rather than, yeah, improve your technique. I think I was kind of blessed when I was younger. When I was a junior athlete, I was coached by Leigh and Perth, who's still coach, is Lynn Foreman. She was a 400-hundred-runner and she was big on technique and I think just her hurdle background made her think that way and she's a fantastic junior coach. She still is and she was always on at me.
Speaker 2:I used to run kind of very flat and, you know, on my heels a bit and she worked hard and I did a lot of hurdle drills like as part of my training from I started with her when I was 13 to probably about 18 and you know very low mileage. She just wanted me to get faster over 400 and 800. She always told me that I'd be a 3K runner one day, when the 3K was still an event for women on the world stage. But she said we need to get you faster and you need to have better technique. So I was lucky to have someone who had that opinion. Yeah, that's great, because as you get older, no, it's definitely not something as more as a middle distance runner. I think once you establish, it's more just about getting as much training done as you can.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's like golf or like tennis running, I mean, the whole neurophysiology part of it of creating patterning is crucial. I mean, look at the tennis players yeah, repetition, repetition and, purely, you know, trying to perfect your technique. Really, yeah. So one thing that stood out obviously you were quite efficient, and Lynn taught you a fair bit and obviously got you to do the hurdles, to get you to stand up off your heels. That would have been what that was about. For sure. If we go back, though, I mean before you won a national title over 1500 meters, you were a good runner, you were a good athlete, a above average, elite national level, but we're sort of just scratching at the surface. And then you won the national title, and it seemed, from that point on, it was given an awakening or a turning point. So what happened at that time?
Speaker 2:I think it was basically I was in Perth that I always went, I guess until I moved to Melbourne when I was sorry age 22. Yeah, I probably ran about 40 kilometers a week and I was trying to be. I think it was that move once I'd finished uni here in Perth and decided to make the move to Melbourne. That was kind of a big turning point. And something else as well is my. I kept having these lower leg issues that no one here in Perth could diagnose, and it was just a trip to Melbourne and spending a couple of weeks there and finding out what the problem was, having surgery in Melbourne that fixed the problems that then allowed me to train at the level this is the bilateral ankle problem.
Speaker 2:No, the bilateral perineal nerve release.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:So I'd had compartment syndrome surgery three times in Perth and they told me I'd put it for a fourth time because the problem still existed. Having a battery test and having the problem diagnosed, having surgery on it yeah, that pretty much. I sort of see that as the second. I guess chapter two of my running career was. I was at junior career. Chapter two was getting my legs sorted once and for all.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so that was around about 23 or so, was it?
Speaker 2:Yes, About three years before Sydney Olympics, yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay so, but you had surgery on the medial side of your ankles as well, didn't you? I?
Speaker 2:had plantifacillitis.
Speaker 1:Plantifacillitis tarsal tunnel problem.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah.
Speaker 1:Can I just go through that? Yeah, because I have a vivid memory of you. Yeah, and I was with you and your husband and I remember dropping you off somewhere and I sat in the car and watched you be piggybacked in to your home. Yeah, and you just come out of surgery and could not walk. Yeah, I mean this is heavy. Yeah, because I knew I had known you for a little while and I watched you get piggybacked in because you couldn't walk post-op. Yeah, and I remember my thought was holy shit, how are you going to come back from this? This is so heavy and the outcomes are a little bit unknown too. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And mind you, the surgical techniques are nothing what they are today.
Speaker 2:It's changed A lot more invasive.
Speaker 1:It's like brutal. Yeah, I remember that post-operatively it was going to be a battle and I remember watching you thinking how can you come back from this and what sort of level are you going to get back to, and all this stuff, and I was like, ah yeah, I was like this is so heavy.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:This is language, but this is so heavy and I think, if you talk about those periods of time when you had surgery, and that's a lot of time off running.
Speaker 2:Oh, every second year after a long time there I was having surgeries, yeah, and I was saying that in the even years I was okay and I was able to go to Sydney Olympics in 2000, but then 2001 I had the plans of faciast surgery I'm mentioning yeah, then I was able to go to Congames in 2002, then 2003. You know it was something else. So, yeah, I really the reality, only went to one world champs, like because they had to have a sort of in the odd years.
Speaker 2:I was every second year on surgery on something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but what I was going to say is that those periods sometimes give you a time to reflect, get things in perspective. It's also a bit of recovery time, holistically.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But I have to say it also shows, you know, if we think back to that time and people who have, you know, been aware of this, when you think back to it, I mean one you showed you know how tough you were and how disciplined you were and, from what I remember, those two things really you were a standout with that. You didn't mind putting yourself on the line, you knew how to hurt yourself, yeah, and you really did separate yourself from so many other women on the track.
Speaker 1:You did have those episodes of having to. You know, I'm sure there was times you were at home going holy shit, Wow, what's going on? But you were able to go deep and draw within.
Speaker 2:Yeah, 100%. I think I've always had a pretty tough mindset, like being like that. I was born that way. I look at different relatives. You know who. You know my Dutch relatives. You know they're pretty hard, well, but I think definitely I had it in me. But I think those times they do they make you sit back and reflect on so many people that the hardest thing, to be completely honest, is people going. Why do you do this? Why don't you just give?
Speaker 1:up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, why don't you do something else? And I didn't want to. I was just, I guess, stubborn in a white eave. I also knew that, you know, this was my thing in life, this was the thing that I could do well, and I knew that I hadn't even scratched the surface with how it could be and I didn't want to give up. And those times, honestly, they just made me so much stronger. Like I stand on the start line and think no other person here has been through what I've been through surgery wise, yeah, and so one has had those times, like is I was piggybacked in when I had plastered up to my knees for three weeks. I couldn't walk. I just, you know my hubby and leave me some food next to my bed and go to work for the day, and if I needed the toilet I'd have to shuffle, like it. But I just, you know, those times just made me so much stronger Perseverance. I got more strength, you know, each time it happened.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:And that's what made me want it so much more.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And then when I did have success, it made it so sweet Like it matters Absolutely.
Speaker 1:So that's if we think post Sydney, which is 2000 leading into 2004,. Where were you then?
Speaker 2:I guess that's when I was kind of floating between. So Peter Fortune was my first coach when I moved from Perth, so so my husband, jaya was running 800s. So we thought Peter Fortune, we'd met him a couple of times before, he had towns and Lewis, kathy Freeman, he had a really good stable of athletes that suited where we were at. So you know to be with thoughts, you know he's just, he was just a legend and you know he's. He was just such a great guy and he's so many great things for me as well, and it got to the point where I needed people that was sort of more, sort of more that 1500, five cane. He didn't have those type of athletes. So I jumped in with with Chris Wardlaw, with the rabs rabs crew, trained a lot with Ann Cross and Kate Anderson and kind of. That's when I guess really my training lifted Because the mileage increased.
Speaker 2:The mileage increased exactly and yeah, I sort of got some really good results here in that period and Rob obviously moved to Hong Kong with his work. So it was up because by correspondence, but he was obviously getting busy. So that's when I jumped over to Bruce Scriven's squad. That's right.
Speaker 1:And that was another turning point, though, wasn't it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean Scriven was. He was really unique in the way he had a lot, of, a lot of athletes that were just prepared to help me out and be my training partner. So I was always lucky to have you know one or two, you know males that could you know run a stride or two in front of men. I think having that really, really lifted me to another level and, yeah, that was again, that was just another big step up in my career.
Speaker 1:I think you know, talking about this and just thinking back, I mean, if you think about what's happening currently with women's middle distance running and the timing, you ran four minutes flat, if I recall, which was the Australian record. Yeah, I think you paved the way and really set the score for what's happening now. I think it's underestimated. You know, it might have been a while ago and that's probably the first thing you will think or say, but you know, sarah, you, I think you did set up that sort of next level of 1500 meter running. And if you think about the girls now, one thing leads to another.
Speaker 1:I don't think we can underestimate what you had set up and you know the legacy you left, because the girls now I mean sure, they're running around four minutes consistently and then it's gone 358 consistently, yeah, and now it's like we're going to run 355 and 356 for sure, yeah. And going back to what you, what you were saying earlier, do you think that that has? Do you think that's sort of happening just because of the time we're in there's more people running quicker and success breached success or do you think there's other factors involved?
Speaker 2:I think I think the world has and I think Australian athletics, the way of thinking has changed a lot, and I think I remember was probably 10 years ago I was a coaching athlete here in Perth who was a really good junior and I went to the AIS with a bunch of Australian coaches just all the, all the crew that are still around coaching senior athletes and we were having chats and someone said what are we going to do about these American colleges poaching out athletes?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I had a completely different way of thinking. I just think with it that the institutes here, you know they struggle to support. You know, between the ages of probably 17 and 23, when our young athletes are establishing themselves, they're moving out of home, going to university, trying to train full time, which is what's required if you're going to get to that Olympic, you know, world class level. They're trying to pay the bills and once I moved out of home when I was 19, my parents didn't do anything. So you know, I was largely just trying to work part time jobs and train and that sort of thing. Institutes can't support our athletes well enough, you know they can't, they can't give them. You know the things required. So I think to go to, on my opinion was to go to US college where you it's put on a platter, you get even, you're a parol, you get medical, you get.
Speaker 1:You know your education, yeah, everything.
Speaker 2:You get this competition, high quality meets coming from Perth. If you stay in WA and you're trying to make it to Olympic level, it's very difficult because you're paying for yourself to come up with competitions, accommodation, etc.
Speaker 2:You know it's a hard one. It hasn't changed. It hasn't changed. It hasn't changed. Nope, I think back it was probably 10 years ago. I remember back to this meeting and some of the older coaches were pondering what we were going to do about US college is poaching our athletes. I just, I've never seen it that way and I think that they have really changed their thinking. And I think I have. Although I might have paid for the white, I didn't go to US college. I had lots of offers back in the day when I was, you know, year 12, but the world was such a smaller place. The internet didn't exist. It was such a big thing to do. You'd have to write letters home. You know you couldn't accept it, you couldn't send it off this time. But I think athletes you know I look back to a Michael Powell you know those kind of initial guys that went to US college. I see them as the ones that really paved the way. Yeah, and you look at all our best athletes now, like Jess Hull, lyndon Hall, you know Ollie.
Speaker 2:Hall. You know I could go on with now. I know I've got a large amount of athletes that have been through the US system and it allows you. I look back now I think, wow, I wish I'd had the chance to do that, because you get to learn your craft. I was a terrible tactical runner on the first or a minute because I, when I grew up in Perth, why you just didn't think about it, or no, I mean, I grew up here and I was the fastest person in WA, even at probably.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I was the fastest runner in Perth.
Speaker 1:There's no people, no numbers around here.
Speaker 2:You go to the front. I just I just led every new race, that's how. And then obviously, coming over, you know, over East, I learned to be more to running packs and you know, but it was never something I got a really good chance to practice because I guess I got to, you know, a high national level, you know relatively quickly. So then I was at the front of packs again. So then I'd go overseas and be in a heat at an Olympic Games. I'd suddenly be in a pack of in my only way of knowing how to come to be run was towards the front.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And it's not always a way to run, and I look at the kids that go to US college and they run the indoors. Outdoors they have heat semifinals of you know hundreds of A lot more competition.
Speaker 1:There's a lot more people. This is interesting. You bring this up. There's more than 140 Australian athletes at colleges at the moment in the US and there is that negative connotation that, oh, we've lost them. But it's not. I mean, the whole thing is with this and this happens with the tennis players as well I know many of the young girls end up in college. Over there You've got full scholarship, all their tuition paid, paid everything equipment, accommodation, the whole lot and these girls are going to make the tour. So they do come out. These athletes do come out and with years of experience with competing against the numbers yeah, numbers are so far greater that's what they're coming back here with. Well, we're seeing them on the world stage being able to handle themselves. Like you mentioned, olly Hall's, one particular, and Jess Harlem, and you know yeah, I mean running, running indoors in heat, semifinals at.
Speaker 2:You know, at any kind of meet you learn how to where to place yourself. You know you learn race strategy, all those. You just you kind of. You know you're refining your craft and that's something I wish I had the chance to do, that I would if I had my time again. That's one thing I would have loved to have had the chance to do yeah. To learn how to race tactically smarter.
Speaker 1:So is there, is there a race that you feel that you could have? Is there one that stands out that you, you know, retrospectively, can think of and think oh you know, I was that, I was tactically, you know, terrible but in great shape, and is there one that stands out that is a little bit frustrating, sort of hangs there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, a lot of people as I had a lot of criticism after the Commonwealth Games in 06 saying, oh, I didn't, because I got boxed in, I was on the right. I managed to squeeze up with about 30 or 40 minutes to go, but then that's a 15, 1500.
Speaker 2:And Lisa Dabriski from England came down the outside. I didn't know. I was boxed in, you know, and, like I said, I copped a lot of criticism. People are like, why didn't you get out earlier? But believe me, if I could have, I would have. But I think sometimes those decisions come down to confidence as well. Do you have earlier in the race? But that's not one that I regret, because I did the best I could and I know hand on heart that I was thinking about getting out about 600 to go. I felt like I couldn't. But probably the Beijing Olympics is probably the one that hurt the most.
Speaker 1:Can I just go back to that one? At the Commonwealth Games, I remember sitting there watching that guy she's all over this and it's like, oh no, and you feel. I remember you finished full of running. I spoke to you about it after but I remember saying oh yeah, but at the end of the day that's racing, isn't it?
Speaker 2:It totally isn't, it's frustrating to watch.
Speaker 1:So I must admit you know you finished so full of running you had it there.
Speaker 2:It was a race that I couldn't watch. I didn't watch it for like in two or three years after it happened and I remember just being the sportsman's night and then you go, I think, and someone put it on just before they introduced me. It was the first time I'd ever seen it and I just broke out. I was kind of half-watched, half-not not sweating, just going. Oh my God, I just can't believe. You told me before I was going to get the silver I would have taken it. I didn't have a perfect lead-in. I don't think anyone really does.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, in the hyperbaric chamber with some old people and a couple of a faithful players out in a hospital in Northgood or somewhere, because I had a little tweak in my calf and you know I think that dented my confidence a little bit. Leading in I didn't tell many people that that had happened. I didn't want people talking about it. But I think having confidence in these big meets, yeah, when it comes to strategy, super important.
Speaker 1:So is there one that's outstanding? You just mentioned you went on to talk about Beijing.
Speaker 2:Beijing, I was in the third heat. No, sorry, I was in the first heat. What am I saying? I was in the first heat and obviously they've changed the system. I think this World Champs. They changed it. So now it's just come into top six places or five places and you're heating it through to the next round and then it's just qualifiers. Now, being in the first heat, you don't know If you're in the third heat. You can be watching the TV screen in the waiting room and you can see what time you need to run. Yeah, in the third heat to make the next round. In the first heat, you don't.
Speaker 2:So I just remember sitting on the shoulder of marrying, the use of Jamal, and kind of we were just running around blindly, not really kind of without a time in mind, and I just let her probably dictate the race for a bit, and I think I missed the final by a bee's dick and I sort of think, wow, maybe I should have sat back because I just got tired late and a few people just rolled past me. Yeah, I didn't make it through, and then having to sit in the stands and watch the final of Beijing, it hurt because I think tactically, if I'd run differently. It could have been a totally different ball game If I'd been able to make the final, because the final was super fast. One of the Kenyans just went for it and that was my best style of running was just going for it.
Speaker 2:Getting myself from the gun and that's what the final was. I sort of went into that and really really good shape I think I had about the sixth or seventh fastest time in the world at the time. But to walk away, the first person to miss the phone, or just because tactically and I also bring up that time.
Speaker 1:At Beijing, was it? I'm quite sure it was Beijing. But years and years later there was a huge number of the women's 1500 meters who, I don't know what they call it, disqualified or Band or whatever, for doping. Yeah, there was an enormous number that came out of your event.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so they were heaps of heaps of the Russian girls, that they were called for doping and so they were gonna rub all Russians out. Yeah, for Beijing, but for some odd reason and I never found out why they let one girl run, and Almanova and I was, and she made the final. Obviously I was the first person to miss the final and I think she Positive the next year.
Speaker 1:No, no, no yeah.
Speaker 2:That was. That was just the nature of the bees back in the time when I was running and yeah yeah, I just it was frustrating at times, but I'm not if I'd run differently and I hate, I believe I could have made Made the fire.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you've spoken about confidence, spoken about being really tough, running from the front, all those things. What would you say, or is there words or a mantra that you've lived by or you pass on to others now, especially in your position as coaching juniors?
Speaker 2:I guess it depends on the level they're at. So for someone I Guess I sort of look back to, I don't think you realize how sure you're or Pro professional career is gonna be like when you're in the event. You know it's. You never know when you're gonna get an injury. You have to see that a season or miss a mate. So you have to seize every opportunity.
Speaker 1:That's what I waste time, don't.
Speaker 2:I stop because you never know when when your next race is really gonna be. So every time you get the chance to have a crack, you've just got to have a crack. Don't sit back in a race and waste any opportunity yeah, that would be my vice or someone of that level. But, but probably to parents of young kids. I can see so many kids, you know it's not just in WA, I'm sure it's everywhere around the world. But I'm just not a big believer in flogging kids and having kids train hard for running until they get, you know, in their late teens. Because you know, I see so many kids. Just you know they're winning everything and doing super well and they're they're having those results because they're training three times harder than everyone else.
Speaker 1:Exactly, and they're on the 15 or something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then everyone else does. You know, when they get a bit old they start training to the same level and then they start, you know, matching motion with them. That kid mentally can't cope anymore because yeah. Because, other than the parents and I think in the parents and you. Then you see them drop away from the sport. I think that's why it's sad. I think yeah, I think you see that thousands of times. So I just seeing people get excited about a young kids performance.
Speaker 1:Well, that's what brings people into the revolving door of our rooms.
Speaker 1:Yeah every day. And one of my things to say listen, juniors not going to Paris next year, get over it. They don't want to hear it and they hate it. Yeah, but you know what she's actually. He or she's not even going to LA and they're often say, yeah, people hate this, but have you ever tried to do as much as what juniors doing? Put their head down. I know, I know it couldn't do that. Of course you could, because you're trying the 15 or like a 25 year old.
Speaker 2:I've said, my oldest after high school. You know he's in their cross-country team and you know one of the teachers coaches across country team is trying his best. We know Harry's 12. He hasn't gone through puberty. You know he's needs. He needs to improve his technique and improve his speed. But you know one one session at 6 30 in the morning was 16 500 meter intervals and and it's just no elite athlete does that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2:My mouth on like it's just like, what are we trying to do? And this kid is you're giving this to 12 year olds. It's like what's what's going on here? And surprise, surprise, you know, my son's got sevens and you know, yeah.
Speaker 1:You've seen Drew's?
Speaker 2:yeah, it's just, you know it's hard to sit back with running training knowledge, but you don't obviously come across as a nodal, or yeah, it's tough, it's tough Okay.
Speaker 1:So let's ask the same question again, but we're talking about a person in the early 20s or mid 20s, is on the cusp of, you know, being quite elite. What do you pass on as words of advice? What things stand out from your experience? Yeah, it picks world champs, you know. You said don't waste time, but you know, for example, what, what would you say, like when you go to this event, just observe this, or taking a certain, you know, aspect of it?
Speaker 2:I think there's something I could say, but I think Confidence and belief self-belief is one thing, like there's no reason why you know if there's a runner here from Russia or from the US, is that you know. There's no reason why that you have better than you. Don't look at it. Don't look at it, pb on paper or the seasons best and and slot yourself into a position that you think you're going to place like that. That's just great If you don't don't be intimidated.
Speaker 2:Don't be intimidated at all by anyone, because you know, I think If you've trained hard, you've prepared well. There's no reason why if you run us and I'll talk about the middle distance in a middle distance race, if you run a smart race we've seen anything can happen you know, yeah, yeah. I think if you don't run with confidence, you're not gonna put yourself in the correct position, you're not gonna do the things required to make it to the next round. I think Having confidence is it's absolutely.
Speaker 1:Did you have that advice? Did you have good support around you? Do you think you had enough support around you? Like people in your ear, I just supported you. Were you know someone to lean on words of advice?
Speaker 2:I did. I had a really good support network and I think that's that's important. You've got to surround yourself With positive people. You got to surround yourself with people that believe you can achieve what you're trying to achieve, because If anyone, if if you have a seed of doubt or other people have a seed of doubt, you're not going to do what what's required you know. Achieve your best, um, but I always had a really good. The one thing I think back to I think I wish I'd utilized sports psych. Um, I remember back in the day, like you just thought I thought the sports side everyone's gonna think I'm bonkers, you know.
Speaker 1:I can't.
Speaker 2:I don't want to go to a sports side because you know it wasn't about making you better.
Speaker 1:It was like some negative connotation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah and I remember it. 2000, um, the 2000 Olympic, we had a camp at nunchie and I met the sports side that was with the team. He was a lovely man. He just wandered around but you'd see him come in thinking, yeah it, almost you're. I was a bit scared by him. I was like I don't want you know, I don't want to chat to him, I don't want anyone to see Okay you know head problems.
Speaker 2:you know it was we. I don't know if everyone thought that way, but now I definitely would utilize, I think, if I, if I'd been older, utilize A sports side, if I'd been open to it myself, though, though there, that Institute, you could access them, but I was just sort of as a weakness if you had to go and see a sports side, okay, hmm, whereas now I could have, potentially. Yeah, I think I could have, maybe had a couple of pointers.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just had a better perspective maybe.
Speaker 2:Especially in those times when Maybe it was slightly underdone because it had an injury and you were thinking in mind you know example to come down oh six. You know thinking, wow, I'm not not in the best shape because I miss three days of training because of my car. You know you're just letting your mind go silly places that you know if you had that one person, one neutral person, not your husband, not your coach, to tell you like stopping in that way, I think, this way, you know.
Speaker 1:I think, staying in control and be composed. Yeah, if we talk about the big show, we've been to three Olympics. Not many people can say that yeah, it's pretty amazing history. So you know, obviously it's so daunting to go to world cross, world champs or whatever it is.
Speaker 1:There's nothing like the Olympics and I said this to chris wardlaw recently about sitting in the stands of 2000 and if for any young person and I was seeing there myself way past it but I thought, if you're a young person, when you sit there and you go, oh my god, this is, I want to be part of this and I really had a feel for it when you do that, the first time you are so much more aware of what it's all about, and then the second time you're so much more familiar and then the third time you're even more familiar and obviously they're all a little bit different. What did you pull out of those experiences, do you think, as far as growing as a person and obviously as an athlete, but as a person particularly what do you think you gained from each experience, or particularly the first one that you could pass on?
Speaker 2:I think, going to your first one. I mean, for me that was just the realisation of the dream you know something about, since I was, you know, saw the LA Olympics and nothing, 84 on the TV as I, wow, this is what I want to do. Sydney was just kind of the realisation of the dream, but I don't need to scrape it onto the team, so just to see it was the first big kind of meet that I've been to. Just to see it was like, wow, okay, this is big. Like, if I'm going to be competitive here like I was just making up numbers If I'm going to be competitive, I need to train hard and, you know, I guess, evolve as an athlete. I sort of was such a new athlete. I look back now and think, wow, I had no idea what I was really doing at the time.
Speaker 1:What you're in for, that's it. You have no idea what you're in for. No one's there to guide you, no.
Speaker 2:And, to be honest, even by 2004,. I'd run at the circuit a lot by that stage. I run the European circuit but it's not great. I hadn't been to a World Champs or anything like that. So you know I'd been to a calm games in the interim, but still 2004 was like okay, wow, you know, this is, this is a big deal. I went there and I was probably let sales making up numbers in Sydney, I was sort of just that middle of the road kind of athlete. In Athens, jean, was a totally different story. I was going in, you know, as one of the I mean, people potentially had me penciled in to make the final.
Speaker 1:I was sort of I'd had a good lead up.
Speaker 2:I'd had a good couple of years I'd come of age, I'd almost was at my peak. So I guess just experience and confidence as I went, as I went through All that was saying, you know, maybe I didn't run with confidence in the heat but just picked up confidence in you. What to do in the village situation I'm. The village is very distracting. I always preferred to be separate, living like on the European circuit, living in an apartment on my own or with one other person. It was distracting being in a village situation where you've got you know, just so much action all the time and the kind of person that finds it hard to you know cut off from the fun and the, you know, high energy.
Speaker 1:So you know just.
Speaker 2:I guess I'm going to deal with that better to over the three Games, just to be able to tuck yourself away at the right time and focus on what you are actually there for, not getting distracted by by the fun that was happening outside apartment door.
Speaker 1:You know, I listening to, I can hear it that there's just so much depth you've gained from these experiences that you can pass on. Yeah, that big, the big experience is something that I don't think is spoken about too much in preparation. This is what you're in for, this is what you can expect. You know the bright lights thing. But then you obviously come home. You're always retrospectively, you're thinking, oh God, I had that time again, I would have done this or would have done that. If you had to pick one Olympics, one Olympics has stood out for you. Which was the best experience Sydney, just because I said it was the realisation.
Speaker 2:That dream of walking into the Sydney Olympic Stadium with the Australian team. Like nothing, nothing will compare to that, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:Most admired runner.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'd say Freeman, like Kathy. Yeah, watching her just prepare, I sort of you know, being Peter Fortran squad, then my husband being a training partner for her for a period of time, rooming with her at a meet or two in Europe, just seeing the actual she was just a freak of it. An athlete, yeah, just a physical weapon. Yeah, what she could do in the gym for her size, you know the training she could do, that was amazing Mental approach.
Speaker 1:Obviously, just what she did at the Sydney Olympics is, yeah, the enormity of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but like yeah, not many people stand that kind of pressure.
Speaker 1:What about in your event in 15? Was there anyone you really sort of were inspired by?
Speaker 2:No, I can't really think of anyone. To be honest, I was on your O'Sullivan. I used to sort of admire her when she obviously was living in Melbourne. When I was there at the time she was, you know, an amazing athlete and sort of watching what she was doing on the world. That was pretty pretty inspiring Other sports.
Speaker 1:Have you been involved in other sports in the past, or even would have liked to have done? Yeah, what takes you fancy now?
Speaker 2:Post-running, like I've played a fair bit of golf, which is something I never thought I would do. Yeah, I'm a patient person. So golf, paddle tennis, I don't know.
Speaker 1:So how's that going for you then being so impatient playing golf? I?
Speaker 2:have my good and bad days with that way.
Speaker 1:You are so competitive, still I can see it Brutal.
Speaker 2:It's like it's pretty.
Speaker 1:Talking about that. I think that's one thing that did stand out. You haven't mentioned this about. You were so like, so competitive. Yeah, I know that you, every time you ran it was like, yeah, she's got the most out of herself. It's like the only other person I remember seeing, and you sort of felt that every time they're stepping on the track, was Deeks. Yeah, and then you, you really stood out against the other women, like, yeah, she's just going like flat out, but so competitive, yeah, yeah, oh. And the looks on your face sometimes at the start lines like, well, holy shit, like don't get it away.
Speaker 2:And I mean I couldn't help myself. I want the parent daughter raise a kidney. I don't know if you've been helped yourself. Yeah, it hasn't gone. Yeah.
Speaker 1:No, it never does, I'm sure.
Speaker 2:I would love to try it back in the day. Afl oh right, okay, again, kick a ball, potentially road cycling, yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, well, back then there would have been no pathway for you know, for the AFL side of things, like there is now. Anyway, yeah, you probably would have been an awesome cyclist with what you've done on the track. Okay, thanks a million for your time. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1:No, it's been fun, See you mate, it's been nice to see you Bye. I've known Sarah for a long time and she has been one of the toughest athletes I've ever met, in knowing what she's worked through and not giving up in achieving her Olympic dreams. A person of honesty and depth and amazing resilience and a great athlete. Thanks for listening and you can find more details on this episode on the show notes, where you can also subscribe and support the show, where you will also find all other links. And thanks again to Shona Mara and the Silver Sound for the music. Thanks again for listening and I'll speak to you soon.
