The Champion Within
This is a series with fascinating and inspiring people, and what it takes to be the best you can at whatever your endeavours may be.
We will learn from others as to how they have handled themselves in their own pursuits, and so that we can apply to ourselves.
We’ll talk about the necessary support and how important it is, to have the best and appropriate systems around us, so that we can be the best possible. We’ll discuss aspects of ourselves that we can all develop.
This is a show with inspiring people, including musicians, artists, athletes, medical specialists, business entrepreneurs and more…in the pursuit of excellence.
I’m Jason Agosta, a health professional and former athlete, and I'm fascinated in people’s stories, my own involves developing certain attributes over time, but also things that were not done well or were significantly missing.
Join me on The Champion Within in discovering that everybody has a story, and everybody has a message.
@the_championwithin
@jasonagosta
jason@ja-podiatry.com
The Champion Within
Ep.9 Lee May: The Art of Denim, Style & Sustainability
Have you ever pondered the art and science behind a perfect pair of jeans? Buckle up and brace yourself as we take you on a compelling journey through the world of sustainable fashion with Lee May, a designer and master craftsman whose intriguing journey takes us from the bustling lanes of London's Saville Row to his renowned denim label, Everwear Denim. Lee opens up about his apprenticeship at Hardy Amies, his experiences at the Alexander McQueen fashion house, and the process of blending traditional tailoring techniques with cutting-edge denim designs.
Lee invites us into his world, sharing the secret behind why Japanese denim is the gold-standard of the textile industry. Get a glimpse of how Lee combines unparalleled craftsmanship with sustainability, ensuring his jeans are not only a perfect fit but also built to last. We delve into the challenges in the fashion industry, the impact of waste management, and the importance of quality over quantity. Lee's commitment to sustainability, quality, and style not only offers an incredible insight into his world but also encourages us to rethink our own fashion choices. Tune in and be inspired by Lee's dedication and passion for fashion and sustainability.
www.everwear.com.au
@everwear.denim
@the_championwithin
@jasonagosta
@the.silversound
Hi there and welcome back to the Champion Within. Thanks for tuning in where we speak to fascinating people with inspiring stories. I'm Jason Agosta, and this episode is with the most interesting person to speak with, being Lee May. Lee is a designer and master craftsman extending from a history in the fashion and textile industry. Lee developed his tailoring skills from working in the heart of London's custom tailoring and fashion region, which then led to several years working with the Alexander McQueen fashion house. Lee now combines a love for designing perfectly fitting denim garments and the use of traditional tailoring techniques for his label, everwear Denim.
Speaker 1:We discussed Lee's history, design and quality of garments, detail and the use of older machines. We also talked sustainability and the impact of the textile industry on the global environment. I have Lee May from Everwear Denim. Hey, jason, thanks for having me on, thanks for joining me, and I've been really interested in our discussions we had about bringing fashion to the people, which is what you're doing, thanks. I have to say that I love fashion, but I don't wear it, unless you think a black t-shirt is fashion. But I really admire what you're doing and you've had incredible history as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, to be honest, the word fashion to me is a funny word too. I've worked in it a bit, but what I'm doing now is more about just making clothes and clothes that have meaning and clothes that fit and clothes that are really good quality, rather than fashion, which fashion, to me, tends to be trend based and seasonal and all those things. So, following trends, yeah, which I'm trying to make good, classic menswear, yeah, perfect.
Speaker 1:But your history in the past. I know you studied here in RMIT in Melbourne but then you ended up in London and I should explain to the listeners that you went to Savile Row, which is a road, it's a main street in Mayfair, I think. Is that right? Yeah, it runs parallel to Regent Street and that is sort of like the main region for custom or bespoke tailoring.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so probably the mecca for tailoring. One street, maybe 20 different tailors to the street where you go to get measured up for a bespoke suit which is a handmade English suit. So how did you end up there? I guess it goes back to being a teenager being into clothes, not having the money to be able to go buy the clothes I wanted to wear, so just thought the easiest way to get there was to go get a sewing machine and make them myself.
Speaker 2:So, 14, I think, I got two industrial sewing machines and I've got a sewing machine and went about finding a great teacher to teach me how to sew and to cut. And, yeah, she used to come over to my house on Saturdays and we used to sew and make clothes. Cool, yeah. So it started there. I was into jeans back then, so doing work experience at a couple of different denim brands and continued that through my whole high school working with those guys nobody denim in Fitzroy. From there, yeah, I went to study at Brunswick RMIT, studied three years of fashion, really hands on course. I got a lot out of it. Gave me a really kind of great overview of like broad range of skills to sort of set me on my way.
Speaker 1:So what did you end up doing in London then?
Speaker 2:So from RMIT I went and worked for two Italian tailors in Armadale. So I did a trouser making apprenticeship. So I think I was there two and a half years. And then I thought, if I'm going to do tailoring which I've become sort of obsessed with the craft and the way a handmade suit was made and put together skills that these older tailors if I was going to pursue it, I was going to move to London and just give it a crack over there, right, okay.
Speaker 1:So from what I understand, on Savile Row you have one specific job. Is that how it works? Like you just did one part of the tailoring?
Speaker 2:Yeah, basically there's a team of people who are involved in producing a suit. I guess you have a cutter who is customer facing, takes measurements, runs a customer through the order, discusses fabric and then they, with those measurements, draft a pattern. Then that pattern is laid on the fabric and cut out, and then the jobs are given to each garment maker. So you have a coat maker who makes just the jackets, a waistcoat maker who makes a waistcoat and a trousers maker who just makes the trousers. Oh, because it's very specific, yeah, yeah. And then, even on the coat, you'll have a finisher and that person's job is just to do all the hand finishing. So they sell the buttonholes by hand. Yeah, okay, you know, and that's separate to the coat maker.
Speaker 1:So specific and so hands-on, but you obviously have learnt so much from that. Just like on the job, hands in there, Just yeah, 100%.
Speaker 2:I did a three-year cutting apprenticeship with. So I worked one-on-one with the head cutter, will Adams. So, starting off at number 14, hardy Amys yeah, and so Ro Hardy Amys. He was a designer in the 50s. He designed a lot of the dresses that Queen Elizabeth wore in the 1950s of the tour of Australia, but then he was kind of way ahead of his time. He designed all the costumes for 2001, a space odyssey, and like he was just, and Savile Row was so conservative then.
Speaker 2:And it was all men's wear and he just yeah, he definitely pushed the boundaries. And it was this beautiful house that he designed, very different to everything else on Savile Row Big, grand staircase and reading room with a whole collection of vogue from the very first issue all the way through to current and hand-painted wallpapers and stuff like that. So it was a amazing place to spend, yeah.
Speaker 1:And then from there. Everyone wants to know this, but you spent I'm not sure how long with Alexander McQueen's fashion house.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And how did you end up there? Because that is like we're talking like next level.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I guess, after working in kind of a fairly conservative world of like English tailoring, completing my apprenticeship, I actually just I kind of wanted to keep learning. It was always a journey of like for me, just to keep getting as much out of it as I could. The Qatar. So Alexander McQueen, or Lee McQueen he actually worked at Savile Row for two years as a coat maker. He worked at Huntsman McQueen ended up opening their men's flagship store on Savile Row. So I was working at number five Savile Row and I ended up moving to number nine Savile Row, which was where the Alexander McQueen bespoke department was based. So right place right time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, a little bit. I wanted to the head cutter, Richie Charlton, I think, probably the most talented cutter on the row cutter maker. So it was as much about going working with Richie as working for McQueen. But I think, yeah, both those were amazing opportunities to work under Richie and then to work for McQueen, With still all that classic bespoke techniques and informing all of our decisions, I guess, but applying it to a more sort of contemporary fashion.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was going to ask you. So that history of being a cutter and the specific sort of hands-on experience you had, that sort of, went a long way when you went and moved into the McQueen set.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we still had bespoke customers and we would still make gray navy suits for CEOs or finance guys or whatever. There was all of that as well as classic tailoring black tie, white tie, morning dress, those sorts of things. But over the three years we worked quite closely with the menswear team, so a lot more creative. We helped them when they had something beside of this wild or crazy tailoring idea and how we could bring it into an actual garment that worked to go down a runway or for a shoot or for a press piece.
Speaker 1:Alexander McQueen's sort of fashion house. It was seen from day one as like just outrageous and he was sort of came on the scene as a little bit rebellious. I think he was seen in that light. But was it outrageous and just like just so different to what sort of the mainstream high end houses?
Speaker 2:were, I think, after he passed away. I think they did an amazing job. Sarah, who's the creative director, took over, yeah, yeah, I think she's done an amazing job to keep his legacy going, but moving the company forward and, yeah, but saying true to its roots.
Speaker 1:Was it outrageous though, as we've seen and read about and heard?
Speaker 2:By the time I was there probably not, it was probably more. It was a big fashion house but creativity was still first and foremost and nothing got in the way of that. So amazing to see that design process and what was possible with the use of different techniques like embroidery and hand embellishment, but also the use of weaving fabrics just incredible what they were willing to do to deliver that design.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so spend our time and expense on quality? Absolutely not. I should also say, while we're speaking today I think you might be able to correct me it's either this week or this month that it is 10 years since Alexander McQueen's passing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, I'm not 100%.
Speaker 1:And there is a legacy and it stands and it does move on and it has a reputation, and I just love how people do that, how they sort of forge their way and come out to be quite different. And you are part of this and it obviously has had a major influence on you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think I was a very small part of it. It was an amazing opportunity and, yeah, it definitely has shaped me. In what way? Detail, yeah, it's just every detail, the smallest things. Proportion scale yeah, but mainly detail, I think. Yeah, to the nth degree. Yeah, perfect.
Speaker 1:So one of the things I've noticed about you is I love how you're doing all this classic stuff, but you are so obviously fascinated with restoration and I love when I walk into your sort of factory showroom and there's like 10 old I don't know. They look like they're probably from the 50s or 60s sewing machines which you have restored.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I have probably about 10, 12 sewing machines from anything from maybe 1917 through to the 60s. Yeah, all do a different job in the gene making process. Yeah, but they're all very specialized, but they're all old.
Speaker 1:They're all really. And is there a difference with that, With that sort of let's call it older machinery versus the new age?
Speaker 2:So yeah, there is a difference. There's a difference in, obviously, how they look. They're beautiful old machinery. Oh they're amazing, yeah, how they sew. They're very different to the modern machine. They have like small imperfections when you're making and they almost have their own little sort of personality that when you're sitting on them and sewing you know how to just handle the fabric going through them.
Speaker 1:I was going to say, does that sort of let's call it old school or basic machine that you're making work for you? It fits perfect to what you're doing now with your bespoke denim.
Speaker 2:Definitely. I think it definitely produces a different pair of jeans to what a factory pair of jeans would be. They are handmade and they have that feel to them. They're not perfect, whereas you know they can make a factory made pair of jeans in, say, seven minutes They'll be, you know, inverted commons, perfect, right, you know they kind of lack character, yeah, and the detail, and the detail absolutely yeah, and they're about speed and mass production Mass production Whereas you know I cut everything by hand.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I cut one pair at a time to finish using these beautiful machines that were built to last 100 years, not five years, or to be superseded by the next thing. Yeah, I guess you're working perfectly. You know they don't miss a beat.
Speaker 1:So can I ask you, talking about the denim, I know that you use Japanese denim, so is this like because of the high quality or is it just a feel it brings?
Speaker 2:no, it's more about quality. Japanese and America to a point, but not so much anymore. So, basically, when Levi's well, not Levi's. When, when jeans became a garment, they were a work, a piece of work wear. They use denim because it was hard wearing and they, they use these old narrow width looms To create the denim fabric. Basically, quite slow Production so, but they create these again kind of imperfect Denim on an old shuttle loom with the indigo dye. Yeah, that's what we kind of came to know as Levi's jeans. Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:And then, post the Second World War, after all, the American GIs were based in Japan, the Japanese had never seen Levi's and they became obsessed with them, right, so, like anything, they kind of said about Creating their own style of jean. Yeah, late 50s, that sort of time. Um, they couldn't get the denim, I don't think, out of America. So they created their own Toyota shuttle looms, which are the narrow width Looms that create the denim. I guess they had their history of indigo dyeing, which goes way, way, way back. So they already had the dyeing techniques of hand dyed natural indigo, yeah, and then applying it to weaving the fabrics. They pretty quickly became the best added in the world. Is that right, yeah, yeah. So yeah, japanese salvage is the best denim in the world. It's Um, it fades better, it's softer and shapes to your body with wear better than any other denim. And then the cotton they use is is a beautiful long fiber that um, that lasts and you're doing um.
Speaker 1:From what I saw you doing jackets, shirts and jeans so I predominantly make jeans.
Speaker 2:Um majority of what I do is bespoke. So yeah, and get measured up. Um talk about fit and style you bring it to the people.
Speaker 1:I think we had that chat, yeah, about the one on one. You know, customized, you know jeans well, this is the go back to what you said a few minutes ago about you know the mass produce. I think you said a pair of jeans is made in seven minutes or something. Yeah, I mean, you are bringing it to the people and it's such a unique sort of aspect of this, from what I can see.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I mean, I think when you think about how, how much you wear a pair of jeans, they're probably the most worn garment in your wardrobe. So having something that's great quality and fits you better than anything else you can buy, you're gonna wear it.
Speaker 1:You're gonna live in those basic, non-stop, and the thing I love about it is you could have one pair of really good Japanese denim jeans, from what I can see, versus what most people probably do is go on by three or four pairs. Mass produce lower quality denim, you know, versus one one really high quality pair. Yeah, absolutely that's what I can see and I can. I think that that is a really important point of To bring up, because you and I had that discussion quickly about, uh, sustainability.
Speaker 2:Yeah, fashion in general is not Um friendly to the environment.
Speaker 1:We're gonna go through this yeah.
Speaker 2:So I think the only, the only sort of the best way to wear clothes is to buy less, buy better quality, wear them more, wear them longer. Yeah, repair them With with my jeans that I make. You know, I guarantee them for life. Um, I'll do Repairs for the life of the jeans. I've got a dining machine so can mend and darn the jeans. You know, if you blow out a knee, we can do a mend on those and blend it in so you can barely see it. Or if you, you know, lose some, some buttons will replace the buttons or re-stitch. You know, pocket in. Um, basically, I'm creating a garment that I want you to wear for as long as possible. And, yeah, especially with jeans, they they get better the older they get.
Speaker 2:Mm, so the longer you wear them, you know they're just getting better.
Speaker 1:Yeah, more comfy, more like yeah, there's two things that um I think of with the textile industry. One is um the intensity of working in that industry, with deadlines and just Seasonal changes, and I don't know whether you experience that or not. And then the second thing I read a lot about is you know, the waste and landfill.
Speaker 2:There are times when you work Long hours but also, you know, saying the lead up to a show in paris for mcqueen, we'd work, you know, till one one am Every night, but then Post show, we'd have a week off, mm, you know, and that would give us a week on top of you know, your yeah and your leave, um, so they were aware of that's quite balanced. Yeah, definitely Uh, but I think once upon a time it wasn't yet people were less aware of those things. Yeah, and then the yeah. I mean, the amount of clothes that go into landfill is scary and the amount of clothes that are made that are purely manufactured to be sold on sale is staggering.
Speaker 1:The fast fashion.
Speaker 2:Totally. That's the cycle of you know. It might be on full price for a couple of weeks and then it's just discounted, discounted, discounted and yes, it's like really poor quality too, totally.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think you even see it now when you go charity shopping, up shopping, the quality of clothes in up shops is crap. Okay, you know, when I was, you know 16, 17, 18, it was great. You know you flip through rails of great quality clothes and I think in the last 10, 15 years we've just we're making really poor great clothes. That I mean if you're selling them at that price, you know you have to make them for next to nothing, so the quality of them is just so poor, okay.
Speaker 1:And none of it can be recycled from what I read, because of the chemicals and the actual recyclings.
Speaker 2:Recycling isn't the answer either. Like just consume less and consume like and buy better quality stuff.
Speaker 1:Can I just go through this quickly, because I've just I've been reading up on this since 2000, the year 2000,. Global production of clothing has doubled. We're buying 60% more clothing than we did 15 years ago and we're only keeping them for half as long. This is from the ABC. Yeah, some surveys reported that young people considered garments to be old if they'd been used twice, which is what you're talking about. I'm sticking to my one pair of jeans, you can tell you. And also, it's estimated that 85% of all garments go to landfill and that's enough to fill Sydney Harbour annually. So if we talk about that industry of consuming clothes, people really need to have a good hard look at this.
Speaker 1:I'm just going to take this another step further, and you may know about Ghana, the city of Acra, and this was also exposed by ABC. And just to get people thinking about this, because it fits in exactly with what you're doing, lady, which I love, the World Bank funded a landfill project at the cost of $95 million to aid Acra's waste problem, because they're just getting containers and containers taken into Ghana of waste clothing. And what they did? They basically dug a big hole for $95 million and we're going to try and deal with the waste problem At Open End 2013,. With the capacity this is an estimate it was going to operate for 15 years. It was filled in five years and then it caught fire and it burned 11 months and they were saying that 40% of the garments that get taken into Ghana are such poor quality and the rest of them, the hawkers, just take them and sell them on the street.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't even think they're not even wearable clothes or quality it is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it gets back to that fast fashion scenario you were talking about. It really is such an amazing and the enormity of the problem. I don't think many people really are aware of what they do in a day and where that goes in the long run.
Speaker 2:Yeah, when it comes to clothing and how much. How much we consume.
Speaker 1:The consideration is zero. You know, when I started talking to you and I was, you know, looking into this and reading up on it I was like just mind blowing. How come I didn't know this before I said all of a sudden I feel so guilty about my black t-shirt?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I don't know what the answer is. I think we've kind of got ourselves into a really bad habits of buying cheap, poor quality not only clothes, but all consumables, which is probably why I love old sewing machines and old scissors and things that were designed to last 100 years, so outlast. Now we don't even design things to last two years.
Speaker 1:But I think we have an acceptance, almost that, oh you know, you've got five years out of an appliance or a couple of years out of a t-shirt or whatever it is, and that's just the way it is, and we're almost indoctrinated with that thought process of like, oh yeah, this will last me. Or buy my wetsuit, which is supposedly recycled, and I've been looking into that as well. But you know, buy this product that and I just accept. I've got one season out of this thing and next winter I'm going to get another one.
Speaker 2:A mentality that we have here in Australia. I think there are other countries around the world that do it, definitely do it better, and probably places where, coming back to clothes, garments and design more for purpose. So you know, those really extreme cold weather. So Scandinavia people will invest maybe $2,000 in their winter coat, you know, but a proper technical piece of clothing, you know, wear it for 15, 20 years. Yeah, okay, you know, and that's just you know, and that's all they want. And they'll wear their same ski gear every winter. They're not worried about buying the newest, latest colors and how they look. It's all about quality and function.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a big part of the trend, though, isn't it His colors and style? And that I mean the marketing that comes out of. You know, the fashion industry is amazing with developing trends, and people just grab hold of it or create something different.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're always looking to sell more clothes every season. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:So I think that one of the points you and I can make with this segment is getting people to think about you know, when they purchase something. Where is that going? How long is it going to last? How am I going to wear it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, where is it made? How is it made?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Under what conditions is it made? You know, if you're buying, say, a t-shirt for 10 bucks, how is it being manufactured somewhere? So the fabric's been made. It's been manufactured by a human, then shipped to Australia, then sold through a retailer who is paying rent on their retail shop for $10. Like it just doesn't add up. It's not viable. We need to be really aware of where our clothes are made and how they're made.
Speaker 1:I think and how much we need. We actually don't need much, yes, so amazing isn't?
Speaker 2:it Well, and we tend to wear a pretty small selection from our wardrobe anyway, that's interesting.
Speaker 1:I always say you know, my background is that you've got six pairs of shoes there, but you know the one that's most comfortable. You always just go to it every single time, probably like the pair of jeans or shirt or whatever.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think I get a few customers coming back to me and being like you've kind of ruined me now because I can't wear any of my other jeans. I just want to wear it, which is great. Yeah, get better and feel you know, and just be the comfiest things to put on, sure.
Speaker 1:Well, I love what you're doing. People can find you at Everwear, which is in Dramana, and here on the Mornington Peninsula in Victoria. Yeah, we're so happy to talk about this and from that consumption point of view and sustainability point of view, it's so important.
Speaker 2:Definitely come in. Come in and see the factory, see how it connects where your thoughts come from.
Speaker 1:I think you and I spoke about that connection with people when I came in. We just met each other. We were talking about this. I was fascinated with the old singers, the singing machines and the old scissors.
Speaker 2:People so often say wow, I didn't really realise how many machines we use in making one period.
Speaker 1:How many machines would you use in a pair of jeans? I?
Speaker 2:think it's probably eight or nine.
Speaker 1:Really.
Speaker 2:They all have their specific job to create a pair of jeans as we know it today. I think I love what denim is. I love the ability of it, the history of it. I love all clothes, but I also love nerding out on one thing.
Speaker 1:There are some really important points there for a lot of people listening. As I said, look up the show notes and you're going to find Lee's details. You can track him down and I can only say that it's so well worth the whole experience. Thanks, lee, really appreciate your time. Thank you. Thanks, jason, see you out.
Speaker 1:You've been listening to the Champion Within. I'm Jason Augusta and that was Lee May from Everwear Denim and former Alexander McQueen designer. Amazing history to share and making amazing denim clothing with a strong view of textiles and the environment. Make sure you check out Lee on his website, wwweverwearcomau and his Instagram page, wwweverweardenim. Go and check Lee out at his factory and showroom, as there is so much to learn and it's just so inspiring. I love the rawness and the hands-on work he's doing at the highest level of quality. You can follow and support this show at the underscore champion within and on the show notes, and make sure you consider your next purchase of clothing. Thanks for listening and I'll be with you again soon with a follow-up with Erin Ferguson and the Everesting Effort. Thanks for listening.
