The Champion Within
This is a series with fascinating and inspiring people, and what it takes to be the best you can at whatever your endeavours may be.
We will learn from others as to how they have handled themselves in their own pursuits, and so that we can apply to ourselves.
We’ll talk about the necessary support and how important it is, to have the best and appropriate systems around us, so that we can be the best possible. We’ll discuss aspects of ourselves that we can all develop.
This is a show with inspiring people, including musicians, artists, athletes, medical specialists, business entrepreneurs and more…in the pursuit of excellence.
I’m Jason Agosta, a health professional and former athlete, and I'm fascinated in people’s stories, my own involves developing certain attributes over time, but also things that were not done well or were significantly missing.
Join me on The Champion Within in discovering that everybody has a story, and everybody has a message.
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The Champion Within
Ep.14 Matt Clark: Steeplechaser Tokyo Olympics...The Power of Unwavering Confidence
Join us on a thrilling journey with our guest, Matt Clark, an international athlete hailing from Adelaide, with an incredible story of qualifying for the Tokyo Olympics. Matt's story is one of grit, determination, and an indomitable spirit that allowed him to overcome near misses and secure his position on the Olympic team. It's a tale that emphasizes the need for unwavering confidence, an almost audacious ego, and the crucial role that composure and behavior play in the intensely competitive world of athletics.
Dive headfirst into the whirlwind of preparing for an event as massive as the Olympics. Matt candidly shares insights on the grueling process, the unexpected challenges that can blindside an athlete, and the invaluable lessons learned from his journey. This narrative deftly highlights the immense effort and dedication of a team, underscoring the importance of not taking their contribution for granted. Through Matt's experiences, we'll unravel the intricacies of finding equilibrium between competing for points, training for peak performance, and staying focused even when things get tough.
Our chat concludes on an enlightening note, with Matt revealing the physical and mental demands that come with being a high-level athlete. From the relentless training to the precision of technique, to the savvy of racing strategies, Matt underscores the importance of adapting to different environments - the contrast between Australian and European races, for instance. He highlights the significance of proper technique and efficiency to prevent injuries and the critical role of a sports psychology professional in understanding personal limits. This conversation is a window into the thrilling, yet demanding, world of athletic performance and the delicate balance between personal life, professional aspirations, and the quest for sporting excellence.
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Welcome back to the Champion Within shows. Speaking to people with inspiring stories. I'm Jason Agosta, and recently I spoke with Matt Clark from Adelaide, who competes in the steeper chase on the track. Matt competed at the Tokyo Olympics and also more recently competed at the World Championships in Budapest. Of note is that Matt missed the Olympic Qualifier by 0.16 of a second before being selected a few weeks later.
Speaker 1:We talk all things that go into being an international athlete aiming for the Paris Olympics, starting with growing and learning to become a high level athlete. You know, last year you came back with some experience and you're growing a little bit, but this year you've grown a whole lot more and it went pretty well. And then next week you're off again. There's another level. All of a sudden you're going up a level and another level. I said you just got to keep zoomed out and in good perspective, because that's what's happening and what you're doing is growing and learning to become the person to be at the next level. You know what I mean, like if you're going to be in that category of international. Well, you know, you're slowly growing to be that person. What we were talking about there's a certain demeanor or vibe or confidence with that next level, isn't there?
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's an aura or something about you think about the steeple in the top half of the final or the top 10 or so. There's a certain level of whatever it is maturity or that's become accustomed to a certain behaviour of adapting to that level.
Speaker 2:It's that internal ego, I think, and like you see it in, like every event, like I think, the guys who are at the top of their game they didn't just get to the top of their game, at least not over the ones that stay at the top they don't accidentally get there. They work out that they are there and they want to stay there, and they work out the tools that got them there and they put them to practice. And I think that's what you see Is them using their craft that they know they have on the day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's composure, isn't it? Being able to handle yourself in the right way so you make the right decisions and behave appropriately and race appropriately. Yeah, exactly. So tell me, is that what you've learnt? Tell me, but this is what this show is about. Have you learnt that there are aspects of you that you've had to evolve to become, because all this has happened really quickly for you? You went from I think it was correct me if I'm wrong 832 to 822, missed by 0.6, and then went back a week later.
Speaker 2:Yeah, then 0.1.
Speaker 1:Yeah, missed 0.6 and then went back to Gold Coast, was it?
Speaker 2:Correct, yeah.
Speaker 1:And missed by 0.13 or 0.16 or something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, 0.13.
Speaker 1:A qualifying time and then, all of a sudden, two weeks later, you're in the team.
Speaker 2:Yes, after a very late withdrawal, that was a no-binding week.
Speaker 1:Yes, exactly so for you that happened almost suddenly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, basically.
Speaker 1:Missed by 0.13, two weeks later, British athlete withdrawals and so you're the next ranked athlete, so you're in the Olympic team. So that's happened overnight. So I suppose what I'm asking is that those things, or those aspects of being an elite runner at an Olympic level you've had to grasp that really quickly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, definitely. And it's interesting, I think, when I look at when I was trying to qualify and I was thinking about, oh, can I run this time or can't I, I think I was actually pretty confident going through that I could run it and I think that reflects in the way I went about those two 822s, Like I'm really, like we talked about, really composed, really relaxed, really confident in myself. I think I went into the second one saying to my coach I made a few mistakes even a week ago. If we just get it right and we just pace it a little bit more right, I should get this time. Don't worry about it.
Speaker 2:It's funny I look back like 822 is flying. I've got to take an 822, three days a week in the last two years but at the time I was so confident I could get it. But then once I got selected in the Olympic team, it felt like such a different thing than stepping up to that Olympic plate and I remember, even though I was confident in my ability, being confident to compete, just felt like a different ball game and I think that's something that I didn't prep myself for and I think that really showed on the day. I remember being in the race, just getting so overwhelmed, the first couple of laps being like, oh, this is not what I'm used to, this is not what I'm used to.
Speaker 1:So what do you mean, though? What was the bright lights all about, though? Did you step out, or you just confronted with the Olympic show?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I think that was it.
Speaker 2:What were you overwhelmed about? I think the whole last two years leading into it at least definitely the last 12 months, I qualified through a COVID period. So I mean, steep already in Australia is a bit of a quieter event. There's a couple of the pointy ends and then that's it. So if we get fields with three top guys or four top guys, that's a pretty good field in Australia.
Speaker 2:I'd never done at that point any overseas racing. I'd done one overseas race in the steep world. That was World Uni Games and I hadn't gotten used to racing in a pack before and, I think, on a massive world stage before either. So obviously, getting selected for the team all happened very quickly for me and that was a bit of a rollercoaster journey and I think I was just trying to like fake it till I made it and I think we hadn't really put the time of preparation in to actually, you know, focused on. Well, now we're not just going through the motions of like really control time trial anymore. It's about positioning, it's about holding yourself against other people, it's about jumping relaxed and, I think more being okay with imperfect situations, which is what I learned.
Speaker 1:So tell me, is that that's not something you went through, is sort of visualizing or speaking to others about what you're in for?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I had a really good conversation with the athletics Australia sports like this year, and one of the things we talked about this year was being comfortable with imperfections and expecting imperfections. And I think when I ran my two A 22s leading into the Olympics, I kind of look back at them now and I'm like, given the situation and the jump I needed, they're almost like these unicorn performances, like it's. They kind of just came out of nowhere, like I remember 10 seconds was it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, 10 second PB in like a race that literally had the minimum required people for it to be like a legally allowed race, townsville in like the middle of our winter, like it's like no one goes to Townsville because a quick truck, like it's like the most random thing ever. I'm going to look back on it and but the thing is like I hit two of them in a week, yeah, and so I was just like, oh yeah, cool, two A 22s in a week, fantastic. But I look back at actually the careful planning we put into that that my coach was there, my fiance was there, my, my pacemaker for the day as well was my trainee partner. Have I done all my work with the last two years leading into it? And I was like we basically controlled every single variable we did and I don't think I really appreciated that and then that's prepared myself for the next step yeah.
Speaker 2:I kind of just thought, oh, everything's falling into place. It was happening again. I didn't really prep myself for that big, overwhelming performance.
Speaker 1:So, was there, was there not someone on the team or prior to leaving, that you could just like hey, I really need to, you know, get my shit together before I go to Tokyo. What am I in for? Is there not? Was there not someone?
Speaker 2:like they definitely lean on, or I think they were like I don't think it was a matter of the services weren't there. I think it was just a matter of like my own ignorance and even like a little bit of my own arrogance. I think I just didn't take for granted, as I said, like the hard work and the almost like perfectionism that my team put in to get those 822s when we needed, and I just thought that everything would fall into place normally Right the Olympics.
Speaker 1:Okay. So what you're saying? Yeah, you're prepared, planned, everything goes your way with the 822 time, make the qualified, but then you get there and it's like whoa, things are a little bit different than my world.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly Like I didn't prepare for something which is it's going to be, there's going to be messiness, there's going to be, there's going to be jumps that you don't get right, there's going to be people to cut in on you that knock you, that push you around. And I just thought I just have this clear run all the way through and that all fresh with the K to go, because I've been closing well on these 822s and that it just be easy and I was. I was up for a very rude awakening, so welcome to the big boys.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's that's exactly what I thought, like I remember, like I put up an Instagram post and it's like trial by fire and that's exactly how I remember. Yeah, and it's funny like I was chatting to Riley McGowan, who he debuted last World Champs in the 800, and he said like a little bit of the same thing he goes. That was the most like intense, overwhelming experience, like my first ever major team kind of thing. And it goes, just happened at a blink of an eye. Like the race is going so fast and I don't think anything can properly prepare you for your first.
Speaker 1:No, I totally understand what you're saying and when you finish you sort of think, oh, I wish I had had that experience before. Or yeah, I need this again because I know how I'm going to handle myself 10 times better.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I remember the world cross, and yeah, absolutely, I totally get it. So. So what about now though? We've done Tokyo, you've just got back from Budapest, the World Championships, yeah. So what does it feel like now, as far as zooming out? And I know you've just jumped off the plane and arrived home a week ago, or whatever, what? Does it seem like in retrospect.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I think it's funny, I think the mistakes that we made in my first major, in my first major at the Olympics, I think we were on top of them for the second one, but unfortunately, some of the mistakes, some of the things we got right in the first one we didn't get right in the second one. So I think, such as I think physical form and that's a little bit of a case of it's a bit of a needs basis. So the steeple chase field got cut from 45 to 36. Yeah, and so, even though my points and the planning that went into gathering points to qualify like improve me and I've moved up from like, for example, I was 46, I finished 30., 35 or something 37th on the overall and then I got in a roll down again. So I'd actually improved.
Speaker 2:But we're talking about world rankings here, world rankings here, yeah, but then, like the, the field size got shortened, so I've kind of found myself in the same position again, which means all through a year of this year to make sure that I could get to the start line. I was like chasing points to try and get myself qualified and unfortunately, like that just led to like you're racing, racing, racing. You never actually get a training block in. Yeah, I was praying for a little bit of a form miracle on the day kind of thing. But like, in terms of like, even like I didn't have the fitness, I think in the last K, and like chatting to a lot of people that like know the sport quite well, like they kind of also the same thing, they're like, yeah, you looked really good out there, You're in a good spot, you're comfortable in the pack, you just you know you didn't have a fitness and I think that's and that's just about you know, like if you were in a position chasing all season, then that could have been a different ball game.
Speaker 1:But yeah, okay, so it's the amount of losing the training blocks. Is that what you're saying? Yeah, yeah, 100.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like I'm one of those guys that I know like I go well of high mileage and really high training load, yeah, and I come off that and I respond really well to like a freshening up phase, like a taper phase, and then I go race and you can do that really easily in Australia because, everything's controlled.
Speaker 2:I get into whatever race I want, whereas in Europe, like you kind of have to make sure at the start you have to run well in Australia and then you have to prove fitness in the first couple of races over there and then you're not in a good qualifying space. You can't just go off and go training. You have to go make sure you spot secured now. Yeah, I just run the time and have done it.
Speaker 1:Yeah so, but you have to do the races, don't you? To get used to the thumping and the pushing and dealing with everyone else's desperation?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Which is what you haven't had, because you've had it all your way here. But you need to get into the packs over there, as you put it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I have to do it, yeah, and like I think it's like it's getting used to races that aren't perfect, like I know. Like when you're in Australia, if you kind of like I don't know if I'm like mess up one hurdle every like three or four laps and like I was a bit frustrating, like get back into it Over there, if I like nail three out of the five barriers a lap in a pack of 12 or 15 people going around, then I'm doing pretty well. So it's a different ball game. And I was actually chatting to one of my previous coaches, justin Ronaldo, over there. I mean I was even saying it's actually different hurtling technique as well.
Speaker 2:So in Australia when I started steepling, I got taught how to do like it's more of a sprint hurdle technique. Yeah, that works really well in Australia because it's like you travel really by, travel really smoothly. It's really efficient. When you got the space, get it clear run. You get it clear run. But then when you've got a pack, you actually can't jump like that. You need to have a more tucked front leg, yeah, and you need to lean in a bit more to it, because if you just lengthen out you're just going to jump into the giant front of you and you know, if you decelerate too much, leading into it to the time you're going to cut in and you're taking spot. So it's a different jumping technique in Europe to what I jump into.
Speaker 1:This is the toughness of the steeple, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean it's tough, but I mean it just adds like a new dynamic, which I think is something that I've been overall able to capitalize on, and actually make. Australian teams from.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think.
Speaker 2:I stayed at 1500, which has got less dynamicness to it, and I wouldn't be making Australian teams.
Speaker 1:There's a few things. Obviously, technique is important in the steeple and that has to vary a little bit depending on your positioning and speed during the race, I assume. And one thing you mentioned was your mileage. What sort of mileage do you do per week? When you said you know like large volumes, what do you?
Speaker 2:normally get up to when I'm doing like really heavy training blocks. I can max out at like probably I've got up to like 183 before kilometers a week, but I think I get pretty good results of like if I can do a block right here around 100 miles away. So 160 kilometers, yeah, and I can do that for Finding a six-week training block. At that I'm flying by the end of sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, everything comes with it, doesn't you? Your 15 is gonna come with it, your five and your 10k, but yeah, so when you, as you said, to taper off, you're gonna get it. One thing with you I've noticed is your technique is beautiful. You run beautifully. You're so efficient. Is that something you've worked on or is it just sort of always been? Maddie Clark.
Speaker 2:It's funny. I kind of worked on it.
Speaker 1:So because it stands out, because not many people are that great, but you stand out. It's really efficient.
Speaker 2:I mean like running, or like actually like clearing the barriers and running, running, yeah, okay, yeah. So when I was, when I first started running actually so I was like 13 I actually was a terrible mover so I just like I can overstride, put my heels like make divots in the ground, I'd swing my shoulders a lot. I had this defensive Antiripelvic tilt like I actually looked really bad. I actually took a break from the sport late high school just because I was getting shinspin. So I really enjoyed running.
Speaker 2:And when I came back to the sport, I remember there's a lot of talk around like Oregon project and how smooth Galen Ruff was. And I remember just being like, yeah, I'm just gonna run the Galen Ruff, and I was starting to scratch because I hadn't been running well down. I just remember like just thinking, like I'm just gonna force myself to try and run. I don't think I moved like Galen Ruff, but I just remember like thinking like, run up on my forefoot, pull your leg under your body, we heal up really well and and strong arms when you sprinting kind of thing, and I did my best to mimic. Yet I think it came out a bit different, but I still think it came out smooth enough.
Speaker 1:But there's, there's definite characteristics there of efficiency across the board, of everyone at that top five In the world-class level. You look at them, they've all got, you know, very similar characteristics, both men and women. And I'll just make a point for all listeners Galen Ruff came out of Oregon With Mo Farah and that when those two guys stepped out onto the track of the 10k the London Olympics, it was oh my god they'll have a look at these two technically absolutely beautiful. And I was reading about them later on and they had focused so much on technique because they'd realize it, with good technique you can sprint. Yeah, so the focus was all about sprinting, but that came from beautiful technique and apparently they were obsessed with it. If you follow through as you are now, it's gonna have great impact on efficiency and what you can do, and I'm assuming that also follows through with your hurdling technique as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think one thing I probably learned from it is like because because I kind of like forced myself to learn that kind of form Technique is that I was pretty confident that had some like just good coordination skills. Yeah, and I pick up new techniques quite well. And so when I started working with Steve Fabrus, who's like he's a middle-distance coach, he also used to do 400 meter hurdles himself back in the day and he taught me to hurdle. Um, it was something that I was getting obsessed over, like we just do it. We started in April, the year before the domestic season started.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was in the April before the domestic season started, so what's that? That's like you know, seven, eight months before we even did a Stable and I was doing hurdles every single week, sometimes twice a week, just getting on top of it, nailing it, making you know, and I was like a perfectionist. So I was like to pick me brain, being like I can't do that better, kind of do this better. It's like, mate, it's good enough, it's stable. I was like no, no, no, it has to be perfect.
Speaker 1:Okay, three or four times in the last 15 minutes or so, you've mentioned the word perfect. Yeah, is this been? Has this been you? Where you have just been and this is very common for distance runners as well where there's an assumption that everything's gonna be so ideal and your way and so perfect, and that actually creates this intensity Within and when things don't go right, it's not that good for the individual.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so tell me is this you and who you have been. Now you're talking about it. I can hear it in your voice. You're thinking retrospectively about it. But is that who you've been, this in intense sort of Athlete, trying to have that perfection in whatever aspect it is of your athletics?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's it's funny use that term intense because, as the first thing my coach said to me after came back, I started getting back into it. He goes you just need to dial back the intensity a little bit. No, after, after this world champs and he's like you just need to like Relax a bit more and chill out. Oh he goes. You've been intense at the moment. Yeah, like I look back and I think Once I really committed to my running more, I think that intensity went up and yeah, it definitely isn't always a good thing. Overall, having that discipline and drive to be better is really good. But yeah, at times I think that perfectionism isn't always a good thing. Like I've been like overly perfectionist about you know it's perfectly. It's even like I got times I've been frustrated with my like teammates because, like they're not hitting splits perfectly.
Speaker 2:And like I think it doesn't matter if you're a little bit off, it really doesn't matter exactly. Um, it's. It's definitely something that I think has made me get to where I am, but at the same time, too, it's something I've had to learn to control, as much yeah.
Speaker 1:So what we're talking about is that runners perfectionism or obsession with? Many having to be ideal, but and you realize that that's almost like a waste of time and waste of energy and nothing's gonna be perfect. Yeah, I think it's embracing the impact.
Speaker 2:I think, exactly. I think it's. It's a matter of you always want to try and find An aim for the most ideal purpose to whatever you do, but you need to embrace that it's not. The journey is not gonna be perfect, yeah, and be okay with that.
Speaker 1:No, it's not. Yeah, and we always say to some of the people I help out that it's okay to you know, be that stubborn person and aim for the perfection and that be a little bit obsessive about things, because that does give you that positive drive and people forget that. People often look at eyes Trying to be perfect and obsessive or whatever, but those elements of us, or you as an athlete, they give you that positive drive. You just got to control it really, which is of what you sound like you've actually grown from and have learned.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's still a work in progress, but I've learned that always is yeah, yeah so go back a little bit.
Speaker 1:When you said when you started to take it running more seriously and the intensity went up, when was this?
Speaker 2:I think probably so, probably halfway through when I was training with Justin Rinaldi. So I started training with him about 20, I'm going to say about 16.
Speaker 1:Because our cafe chat that we had a few years ago, your question.
Speaker 1:Right, exactly this is what I'm getting at Our cafe chat. Your question was I don't know whether I need to focus on my professional allied health work as a podiatrist, or am I really going to nail the running side of things? You're sort of in two minds and asking a question of what I should do. How am I going to balance this? And it sounds like probably from that time on or not long after you, right? Okay, I'm going to work out the best way I can be the best I can.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean because I reckon if I was sitting in your chair at that cafe it would be like man. This guy is like insane. He needs to work out what he wants to do with himself.
Speaker 1:No, that wasn't at all. Do you remember what I said to you? This is going back way pre Olympics. I'm not sure when was it To 16, to 17.
Speaker 2:I can. This would have been, I guess would have been touched later like to 17, maybe 18.
Speaker 1:All right, so maybe three or four years before the Olympics. Yeah, and I said to you, I said it's such a short lived time on the track. It's going to come and go so fast. You just got to go for it. Everything else is still going to be there for you later on. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I think the other thing that really stuck was how much you would benefit all other aspects of my life too. So when I was like kind of thinking like, oh, you know, like maybe I'll just give it one shot and if it doesn't kind of work out, then I've got to actually to fall back, when I was going to do that, I remember you being like no, no, no, no, no, no. Like go go do this, go do the Olympics. Even if you miss it another four years, go try again, Because if you make it once, it's going to like change your life and like it really has, so has it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so tell me how. Tell me how it's done.
Speaker 2:Like I think one like I work with a lot of runners, like in my clinic, so like from a marketing point of view, it's definitely changed my life. It's definitely like changed my ability to accumulate patients. But then as well, I think as well just psychologically and I think, really taking myself seriously with following through a plan, knowing that I have the potential to have really, really, really good outcomes from it. So I think, committing to a plan harder, it's really changed my life with that, Because you know, like the amount of planning that me, my coach, my whole team did to make the Olympics was immense and I think the fact that it like came off really was like the positive reinforcement I needed for like that switch to go off in my brain and just like just I mean it's probably bad for my intensity, but it really really ignited something, I think, in my drive to succeed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you've done that beautifully. And here we. You just come back from the world titles as well. There hasn't been just a flash in the pan.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think you have most.
Speaker 1:I think you probably get this anyway. But from the outside, looking at you, have just scratched the surface and talking to you tonight you sound like you. You know, open that up a bit and you can see the potential and the pathway of where you could possibly go, you know, heading into Paris or even LA or something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah no, definitely Like. I think so that the sports like I work with. I remember he sat down with me at the first time I met him and he said all right, realistically goes, if things are perfectly for you leading into Paris and everything goes really well and you have a good run and you're on your day, you super fit, and you just everything's. Now it goes like how far did you think you can go with this? And I realistically said and I truly still believe to this day that I think if I get everything right on the day and I get everything right on my preparation, I can be in that Olympic final.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, for sure. I'm sure you can too. Just go back to what you said about your team. It's a very important point, isn't it? You need everyone around you partner, work, colleagues, whoever it is for them to be on the same sort of pathway and have the same drive to get you. It's a bit like it's a bit like the tour, isn't it? You've got the lead writer, there's a goal of getting you to Paris and the whole team's got to be like right there supporting you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so important. Yeah, and I think that was one of the shifts that I really took advantage of when I moved over to Adelaide. So, like previously when I was in Melbourne and I like had an amazing squad in Melbourne, like like I'm sure everyone in athletics knows Ronaldo's squad, like he's got Peter Boll, joseph Dang, brad Mathis, he had Alex Rope, he was record holder like he's got a phenomenal squad of athletes, and so for me to leave that I had a fair bit that I had to make up for it like missing something like that talent and training part, and I think one thing that Adam did he accused my current coach of doing really well is like really creating a more team-based approach to running in team tempo, and that's something that I don't think I'd ever really properly had before and probably didn't really fully understand until, like that Olympic opportunity came up for me, didn't?
Speaker 1:realize the importance of it.
Speaker 2:Didn't realize the importance of it. I think like everyone kind of has that almost like superficial romantic idea of having like a squad around them and you know like, oh, we trained together, we raised together, and like they probably don't really understand almost like, I think, the emotional investment that comes with it sometimes. So I just remember when I was qualified and I still go to this place now, like when I'm racing a really important race. I like when things start getting like tough, I just think about like all the sacrifices and all the hard work that everyone's done to get me there and I just find like that can just give me another gear. Like you're not there to like ever give up, when, like so many people have put in so much hard work around you. And like it was so obvious, like when I had my best results in Queensland, like I had my coach with me there the whole way. I had like my fiance come fly up with me, like she took time off work cause she's just like now, if you want me around, just so that you're comfortable, like in between training sessions and to hang out, and like to upload like literally some of the most mundane jobs, like make lunch or make dinner or whatever. I'm there for you.
Speaker 2:For a couple of weeks I had my training part, my training partner, one of my best mates, and like Max Stevens as well, like he, he got a bit unlucky in the back end of domestic teams and he got a calf tear and he goes all right, this, this isn't going to happen for me, so the whole focus is on you. He goes let me know what you need, let me know what you need from a pacing job. He goes I'll be there and I'll be dragging it through as far as I can. And I remember when he stepped off every time he goes go get it, go get it, go get it off the Olympics, like mid-race, and I just remember it's like it's just, it gets so fired up and spurred on from that Like he just you can just find so many extra, so many extra gears. I think like when you've got that team around you, I like there's so many more technical stuff too, but like I think that emotional drive, having like a real proper boarding team around- you is something that you just-.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's good. It's so important, isn't it?
Speaker 2:It's so-.
Speaker 1:And what about the support team around you? Like you know, just physio massage. You mentioned psych a few times. I mean you must have that all organized around you to be the best you can be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm pretty lucky so I don't get too injured. Like I don't remember the last time of, oh it wouldn't be. Yeah, I wouldn't have got a proper injury in the last eight years, maybe kind of thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just don't get injured.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I just don't get injured Like you-.
Speaker 1:Drop the intensity.
Speaker 2:People squirm when they look at me.
Speaker 1:Huh, Drop the intensity.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, yeah, like people squirm when they look at my Return to Running program, Like even my coach just laughs at it. Sometimes he's just like I don't think I could break you if I tried. Yeah yeah, okay, and so like fortunately I haven't had to do too much with too many physios, that's good.
Speaker 1:I think a lot of that comes from technique, though your efficiency is really amazing. Yeah, no I definitely agree with that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I definitely agree with that, like I think I think, yeah, that helps. That's a really good starting point. And I think as well, I know my body really well and I know exactly what it needs, how hard I need to push that training when I need to step back, and I think you kind of learned that from pushing too far and making mistakes. So fortunately I've got a maybe slightly bigger window than most, but I know when I've kind of put myself in a hole, in how to avoid that for the next time. And I think that understanding of your body, I think that that's a massive injury deterrent too. But in terms of my weight attain, as I said, I haven't had to do a lot with injury prevention and injury management, with physiotherapy. I'm getting into like a gym program now that I want to target a little bit more like, I guess, metabolic and performance enhancement, so we're just kind of working through that at the moment.
Speaker 2:I think my so psychology has been a massive thing for me. I tried a few sports in Melbourne. I tried a fair few sports in Melbourne. I tried like at least four of them. It's one of those things that I reckon you just have to shop around and find one that like works for you. And it's not even about them necessarily being like a good or better, like psych, it's about them just being able to like I think, relate to you and have you buy into them just as much objective kind of thing. And so he kind of the fashionist yeah, perfect.
Speaker 1:Sensitive.
Speaker 2:He kind of referenced. But he's kind of show this research shows that, like like it's all just science for me. So I'm just like-.
Speaker 1:Okay, so go back on that, though. What were the obvious deficits that you had when you were shopping around for a psych? I mean, what did you feel was not great with you, or how you were handling yourself?
Speaker 2:Like one of the obvious ones that I was like really struggling with in Melbourne that I struggled with. Or even like my first year in Adelaide too. Like before I started working with Chris. Like I was just wildly inconsistent. Like I remember, like even Adam said to me goes, yeah, the first year I coached you. Every time you step out onto the track, it's just you're just rolling the dice Like I've no idea what you're gonna get. Like the first major race I did with Adam, I ran 28, 30, what do I run? Like 28, 39 for 10K at DataPek so, and like that's still my PB. Like how good is this new report? I'm out of the park. And then later in the year I run a 938 steeple or something. It's just like what's going on Like it's a roller-jump.
Speaker 1:You think that was all not because of the shape you're in. This is all about you, how you handled yourself.
Speaker 2:Oh, I think you could nearly put me on the track any day of the week and I should be able to break 938.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So, like I think a lot of those wildly bad you're like wildly inconsistent and bad results it was a psychological thing and I had to learn to manage. I think a lot of just that intense personality I have, Like I carry a lot of like passion into my running and I think I've kind of learned to get the most out of myself with it. But it's if you don't manage that right, it is literally a roller dice. You don't know how to control that, so you can get hyped before the race too early. You can get hyped and then mirror the race and make a move. That's just like silly and you throw your race in the bin. And I think that was something that I was struggling with a lot. It's just like that, managing the right times to peak my psychology, to get the most out of myself, Because you peak it at the right time and amazing things can happen. But you peak it at the wrong time and your race just goes in the bin.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, you and I were just talking about that in the off air, though, about I was saying the conversation I had tonight with someone else was about looking at the behavior and the way the next level or the next group of athletes handled the way they handle themselves. Number one thing is composure, and they can make great decisions and they get used to doing that, but when they need to step on the white line and really fire up, they're fantastic at it. Yeah, and having that beautiful balance like most nearly all the time, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely yeah, I mean yeah, Compose but also really, really desperate on the track Composure desperation. I don't think they're spoken about enough. No, I don't think runners are taught how to handle themselves or develop themselves.
Speaker 1:I think the person you sound like you've thought about this and really grown a lot, kept really really good perspective of yourself since Tokyo and obviously now Budapest. You made the Olympic team so fast and it was all overwhelming and now you sound like you have this amazing perspective of where you're at and most probably I'm assuming you're already thinking about what I have to do for less than 12 months I think it's less than 12 months before Paris Olympics.
Speaker 1:So, I'm sure that you've come back and Adam's going. Yeah, just chill out a little bit, buddy, with the intensity, because you're only coming to the country for a week or two, but you must be thinking about Paris, less than 12 months away, and what you have to do. So what has to either be done or improved upon, or how do you handle yourself in the next short period?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so the easy thing for us is putting a plan together, and I think the easiest thing is putting the training together in advance, because we can guess what we're going to do, kind of thing.
Speaker 1:How does all this fit in professionally with your work being a podiatrist?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so first of all, I'm incredibly fortunate. So I work in sports and arthritis clinic Michael Nishki, who's quite a well-known podiatrist over in South Australia. He's my boss and I've got one of the very few employees I think that really understands the needs of my sport and he's incredibly helpful.
Speaker 1:Well, he's a runner. He's a runner, you better understand.
Speaker 2:He's a runner, he's a coach. He coaches high-level runners. He coaches Kail Maholon, who made that world on the 20-plus country team, and so he gets, I think, the physical and psychological and time needs to go into it. So he's really generous with me taking time off. I took three months off this year to go do European season. There wouldn't be heaps of employers that would hold that job for them when they come back on it. I've just been through that.
Speaker 1:This has happened the second year in a row for me as well, with Sarah, as you know, but it's so cool to be able to contribute a little bit just by providing that opportunity, just to come and go as you please, and that's part of being the team as well, isn't it? The team is the part of the team.
Speaker 2:That's part of the team and I always say that. I always say that he is as much part of the team as anyone is, if not more than a lot.
Speaker 1:You've got great support at work end but you're also providing a lot for that practice or for those people you're seeing as well. But you're actually bringing in a lot with that. The rep you have and people would love to be associated with that. Always it doesn't go away seriously. Decades later you'll still have that rep Getting the balance of the week with your goal of being in Paris and maintaining the professional life as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think that's something that I've gotten a lot better at, probably the last in particular, 12 or 18 months, so I'm just being more comfortable Like I've met my fiancee over here.
Speaker 1:You found your place?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I found my place. So like I just feel like everything's kind of just fallen into the right, that's cool. I'm just with a bit of help and work, but it's all fallen. It's the right place.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's great, it's great to catch up with you yeah it was really good, I've been there so many times and taken note of what you've done since our cafe chat that day and really followed you, and it was so, just wonderful and just so amazing to see you in Tokyo and obviously more recently in Budapest as well. So well done and I really have to say, great job with the perspective you've gained from these events and having that balance you seem to have with your work and your athletics.
Speaker 2:And yeah, like a big thanks to you. Like I was saying to you like off air on the phone the other day, one of the things that really stuck to me and really encouraged that move to Adelaide was you saying, like you, just you got to think about your running in a more professional sense and any opportunity you have to create a more professional environment you've got to grab with two hands.
Speaker 2:And yeah, and that's 100% like what I did, and I reckon I might not have considered an interstate move without it. So big thanks to you too.
Speaker 1:My pleasure. I think if any of us can help just a little bit in, you know, contributing to the forward movements or drive that's, you know, that's a great thing. Hopefully, and then whatever capacity it is. But thanks again for your time and coming on the show. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1:People will love to hear about that importance of balance. And now you can look back and go, yep, okay, I've got that in perspective and this is what I gained from it and this is what, how I'm going to handle myself, or you'll have a better vision the second time around, like you probably did in Budapest.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'll have a much more, I think, particular and specific focus. And yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1:But also that awareness that, as people have said many, many times over many years, there's nothing, there's absolutely nothing like the Olympics no, no, no, no, no, nothing like it. And to be there once. And if you get to Paris, well, that's a huge amount of experience you carry in and we'll be following you the next 12 months and, yeah, we'll stay in touch.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, definitely for sure, Cheers mate.
Speaker 1:Thanks, Matty. Thanks for listening to Matty Clark. I'm sure he'll continue on at the highest level heading into the Paris Olympics. He's touched on a few things that we've spoken about on the show, including technique, which we spoke about with Sarah Jamison in episode eight, and, more importantly, the balance of coordinating a working week and handling yourself the best possible way. More details will be up in the show notes, where you can follow and support the show. Check Matty Clark out on Insta at Matty M-A-T-I Clark C-L-A-R-S-K-E. You can follow this show at the underscore champion within. Thanks again to Shona Mara for his music from his band, the Silver Sound. Thanks for listening to the Champion Within and speak to you soon.
