The Champion Within
This is a series with fascinating and inspiring people, and what it takes to be the best you can at whatever your endeavours may be.
We will learn from others as to how they have handled themselves in their own pursuits, and so that we can apply to ourselves.
We’ll talk about the necessary support and how important it is, to have the best and appropriate systems around us, so that we can be the best possible. We’ll discuss aspects of ourselves that we can all develop.
This is a show with inspiring people, including musicians, artists, athletes, medical specialists, business entrepreneurs and more…in the pursuit of excellence.
I’m Jason Agosta, a health professional and former athlete, and I'm fascinated in people’s stories, my own involves developing certain attributes over time, but also things that were not done well or were significantly missing.
Join me on The Champion Within in discovering that everybody has a story, and everybody has a message.
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The Champion Within
Ep.18 Richard Hussein: Harmony in Talent Spotting and Performance Coaching
Dive deep into the heartbeat of the music industry with Richard Hussain, who brings over two decades of experience to the table in our latest episode. As a talent ID consultant, Richard illuminates the art of spotting and cultivating new talent, sharing war stories from the trenches of music and sports industries. We traverse the landscape of artist development, examining the transformation from intimate club gigs to electrifying headline acts, and debate the consequences that streaming services like Spotify have had on artists and listeners alike. With every anecdote and insight, the nostalgia of vinyl and CDs gives way to the immediacy of digital streaming, painting a picture of an industry in constant, captivating flux.
Richard Hussain doesn't just stop at the music; he ties in powerful parallels with the sports world, discussing the mental gymnastics behind coaching high-profile stars and athletes to reach their zenith. We unpack the importance of mental fitness and the surprising role hypnotherapy can play in achieving peak performance. Through tales of resilience and adaptability, like a rain-soaked Coldplay concert turned magical experience, Richard shares the secrets to enhancing communication and overcoming stress, whether you're facing a stadium crowd or a ticking clock in the pool.
In our candid conversation, Richard and I reflect on the threads that connect passion, success, and longevity in both music and sports. He offers a personal glimpse into the fulfillment that comes from aligning one’s profession with their passion, drawing from his journey as a DJ and mentor. Success, as Richard reminds us, leaves clues for those willing to study and grow. By episode's end, you'll walk away with a renewed sense of what it takes to leave your mark on the world, be it through chords, coaching, or sheer charisma.
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Welcome back to the Champion Within show. Thanks for tuning in. After a break, in a few weeks, I'm Jason Agosta and I hope you've all had a great festive season and best for this year, but, of course, best always. Recently, I caught up with Richard Hussain, who has worked in the music and sports industry for approximately 25 years as a talent ID consultant and in the strategic creation of a performer. Richard has worked with various high performance individuals, including artists, athletes, teams and organisations, in coaching, leadership and team building. In corporate consulting, richard has focused on strategic creation, planning and implementation in entertainment and operating structure. Richard has worked with major record labels, including EMI, bmg, virgin, capital, ministry of Sound and currently works with Warner Music. He has mentored several athletes as well. Thanks for listening, and this is Richard Hussain. What I'm really interested in is what you are doing within the music industry for so long, and you mentioned to me about your talent ID role and what that encompassed.
Speaker 2:Well, look, there's a bunch of roles that I've done in the music industry, but essentially the main role is what they call in the business called ANR, which depends on artist repertoire. So that's everything from talent acquisition and developing artists and it's almost like a proactive recruitment agent. So you go out there and go right I think that's the talent, they're starting to get a bit of traction, or you know and then develop them and put it with another songwriter or put them with another image consultant and put it all together and then give it to marketing and obviously then deal with all the stakeholders in the company, whether it's finance, marketing, sales, admin etc. And then putting it together.
Speaker 1:So does this mean identifying a young? Let me think, for example, you identify a young singer who's got great talent and then you link them up with the right musical backing and then all the other aspects of performance that go with it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it can go completely from A to Z and it can be different parts of the cycle. So there's times where there's completely started with a better artist two or three years ago and I'd give them advice, and then they've gone on to their journey where they're starting to do shows or whatever, and then we think it's maybe the time is ready and then put some investment behind them or do a little bit of a development plan behind them and then tie it all up.
Speaker 1:So the small show becomes a big show.
Speaker 2:Could be yeah, or could be a good spot.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm thinking about the biggest show on earth at the moment, which is probably, you could arguably say, taylor Swift. I mean, she's obviously started. People let that start from grassroots, and then someone sees them, grabs hold of them and then, I don't know, produces a phenomenal personality.
Speaker 2:Well, there's two different schools there, because one yes, we could come in. Or sometimes you've got an artist like Taylor Swift, which is quite she's quite a remarkable artist. So they've got the talent. All they need is a little bit of a push. So I've given ourselves too much credit. There's sometimes it's just phenomenal artists that almost just they're doing it themselves. Whether you're with them or not, they're going to go for it yeah, yeah Okay.
Speaker 2:So you know and I say that humbly, but you know, although I've been part of a lot of success, you know it's my team also and their team and how we work together, and it tried to give you a bit of a different understanding of the. You know the world of music.
Speaker 1:Yeah, is this on behalf of the record companies?
Speaker 2:If you look at the history, what I've done, some of it has been on behalf of the record companies or some of it has been on behalf of myself, being a consultant for artists, so, but you know, usually a stakeholder here and there, whether it's a record company I'm working with when I was working in the corporate life or the record company that I'm partnering with Right. So that's the idea. But, yeah, it's different yet very similar to any other industry. You know it's the same sort of thing is how do we get? You know? And we used to be, up until probably Spotify, which is an interesting thing we used to be the gatekeepers of what most people would listen to. But today, you know Spotify is out there and anyone can load their track and put it up there. So we really, really controlled what consumers would listen to in the region.
Speaker 1:Okay, so how is it tell me how that's changed then? I know we had a brief discussion about this the other night, but how has this changed with, like, the streaming platforms?
Speaker 2:Well, it's, it's, you know, we've gone from just in everything you know. We've gone from, you know, purchasing and I own this and now I rent it and I can access it whatever I want. Yeah, and everything's available, not what just you know, not what just the record companies push out there or, you know, be independent or whatever. So it's the evolution of what's happened in technology and society of having everything instant, you know, yeah, and that's come with this changes to the business which, in ways some people would argue, that's great for a consumer because they can. They can, you know, access anything they want, whatever type of genre. Everything's available. At the same time, for some consumers it, you know, makes it more lost if you get lost them. There's so much out there.
Speaker 1:Oh no.
Speaker 2:It's a paradox of choice? I think yeah.
Speaker 1:I think I mentioned to you that that's. One of the things is that when, when we grew up, you'd listen to an album was usually vinyl, but then CDs come in and we thought CDs were going to last forever. And you know they're gone. But although they sound better and but that's something. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So I think vinyl sounds better.
Speaker 1:to be honest, Well, vinyl, yes, but I know that the amount of sound that's on a CD is far better than what we stream on MP3 or something like that 100 percent.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's, that's right.
Speaker 1:But it's interesting, though when we listened to music, you know, years ago, we'd listen to an entire album and we knew what song was coming next and we knew what song we were listening to. But now, like my children, they would listen to Spotify stuff and it's just like a mixed bag of so much and they wouldn't even know the artist.
Speaker 2:Well, if you look at, I mean, some of the best you know, famous, let's call it, amazing albums out there, whether it's, you know, saturday Night Fever soundtrack, or you're talking, I'm talking some of the biggest records, okay, dark Side of the Moon, pink Floyd, or even you too, you know Just Whichly. Yeah.
Speaker 2:You listen to that album, you might have discovered a particular track. Today the discovery process is different. I mean, it's now, it's done by algorithms, but you know there might have been a track on a Prince record that you oh my God, that's such a good record, how come that's not a single? There's a song by Prince called Erotic City, which is like a B-side of when Dubscribe right. Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:But yeah, it become a club hit right, but not a commercial hit, commercial hit. So the discovery process of when you used to put on that record and just play it and you know someone would be cooking or doing things in the background, it's not as evident now with the way trends and things are going. Yeah, you know it's good and bad things to that, but you know.
Speaker 1:So how does that influence the whole industry, the streaming industry, on the influence of the artist and people like yourself in developing someone coming through? Did they get the sort of rewards? Or is it harder for you, because there's such a massive volume of music that's, you know, streamed on Spotify, to get traction with the artist?
Speaker 2:No, look the business. In my opinion humble opinion it's essentially the same from decades. The difference is just the platforms. Once we used to have the retail stores like Sanity and Virgin Megastores, and today we have Spotify and Apple Music, and these are different platforms. Tiktok Essentially it's about getting the music across to an audience and engaging with an audience and creating some loyalty.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is about right. And then you know, the crux of it is the real moneymaker is, you know, the live shows and merchandise and then getting music in films and stuff like that. The real money comes in and publishing and stuff. So has it changed so much? Yes, if I would say, is that today, when we go back to Dark Side of the Moon as an album, they come out to do a masterpiece or record from A to Z. Now it's more like that's a two and a half minute track, you know. So just get it out there.
Speaker 2:Because we're playing that game at the moment with so much out there, I think, in a way, with my experience, is like more so now. Yes, it's in ways you can say it's more of an even playing field, but at the same time, no, without expertise, we still know how to market and connect and do things that you know an average singer that's doing his stuff in the bedroom probably won't know how to do, because we're working on it on a daily basis with multiple different artists. So that's the difference. Yeah, I mean the information is out there. Someone goes out there and really researches it. Well, you can do it, yeah.
Speaker 1:How do you find the next big act?
Speaker 2:Well, we've got this. I think I told you last time I do work with Warner's and 12 Months. One of our tools it's a Warner program called Soda Toad, so it's an interface dashboard that gives us this amazing data out there and it says right this is trending in Spotify.
Speaker 2:This is trending in TikTok. Look out for this. This is unsigned, so it's made our job a lot more easier than you know prior to the days. It would be like go to a radio station I'll talk to you, know. I'll go to a pub or venue to see who's sort of happening. You know the chit chat around and then look at when to engage to talk to them and see what asset got. So, but nowadays we've got the data there for us. It makes the job so much more easier. I got you and.
Speaker 2:I Whether or not I'll be replaced by AI. You know as a hitmaker, that's the truth, but I still think that I mean, ai is fantastic, it's getting there, but I still feel like you need the feel of knowing what's good. And there's been many times where I've got it completely wrong and I think I told you I don't know if I told you I'm writing a book at the moment, but so I've got a list of stories that where I thought I've got it and I understand the business and everything else and then you know it completely flops. So you know it happens to all of us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we had a bit of a laugh the other night when we were speaking when we first met, about how you know, instead of rocking up to Brunswick Street and Fitzroy and doing the pub crawl and checking out every band at the Evelyn and so on, now it's TikTok. That's how the artist is found, or, you know, has a huge huge sort of push through that platform. It's a completely different scenario.
Speaker 2:It is Especially growing up in Melbourne. You know you'd go to the ESP, you'd go to all these places.
Speaker 2:And then you know there's the chit chat about that's a new band that's sort of coming out and etc. But yeah, look, most of the times it's still on. You know, tiktok or Spotify, where you discover there is, you know, I still get a heap of artists that come to me from somehow, somehow someone in the industry, someone that knows, someone who's by order radio station. It's still that. But there's a whole different ways of discovering new artists.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's funny, I always remember you've just reminded me this. I remember walking to the Palae Theatre watching to see this young band, as a bunch of 15 year olds, play silver chair, and they blew my mind. I couldn't believe the power and I thought, oh my God, these kids are just going to nail this. They are just going to take the roof off any stadium they're going to play in. They're just going to be amazing. All because of that feel. You just had this sense and this feel that really resonated deeply within and then, sure enough, they just took off and I mean we're talking a long time ago. That's old school compared to now. Tiktok, yeah 100%.
Speaker 2:But then you know, on the flip side of that, there's been so many things that they've gone through the cracks that you think how was that artist rejected? Like you know, I hear this one yeah, okay, I've got, yeah, so he's a Melbourne guy, melbourne bass, yeah, and he got rejected by all the labels. And now I want to touch it and it's become, you know, one of the you know, if not the biggest hit of the 2000s. You know so, yeah, and Savage Garden is another example. You know, molly Maldrum rejected them, they all rejected them. And then you know, so you know, sometimes, as much as we think we're experts in it, something's happened.
Speaker 2:I've got a funny story that I'll share with you on in 2012. I had my contact in London contact me and he says, look this, you know you should sign this, this, this artist, and I said, okay, well, what is it? And he says, well, it's Korean, and I got a lot of languages in it because it's in Korean. So Korean is a big, easy track. But you know, you know Universal is going to go for this track and with Universal being one of the major companies and you should take it for the region which you know I was having the Middle East for a long time and I said, oh yeah, all right, yeah, sounds weird, funny, send me the demo. Now they follow up on the demo, so I can't take complete responsibility on, you know, missing out on that opportunity. But I, because in my mind I thought there's no way that Korean I'm in the Middle East. That ain't going to work, you know.
Speaker 2:So I follow it up and it was Gundam style, so so that's happens, you know, so a bit of luck in the drawer and in the right place at the right time 100%.
Speaker 2:Now I could have made a lot of money on that, but you know that time and that sort of taught me something to say that as much as I sort of like get it, but now I get it, get it is that everything in anything can work. You know so the concept of can that work? If I said to you you know we're going to release this, going to be the biggest Arabic song, this is going to be, you know, the biggest Arabic song in Australia, what that makes sense, right, yeah, but it could happen and that's, that's out of that.
Speaker 2:And there's so many those outlier examples that, yeah, okay, it's rare, but okay.
Speaker 1:I'm just going to mention. You worked for Disney music group, warner music group, emi, capital, bmg, virgin Records, ministry of Sound. Tell me who has been the most phenomenal artists you've worked with? A stand out, from where you've seen someone move from start to finish?
Speaker 2:Where I've observed artists where I've been really impressed by, like a big example about Coldplay, where I've seen a reverse like of an artist like, like Nile Rogers, and there been some, some of them being phenomenal. But Coldplay is an example, is just talking about a phenomenal artist. We had a, we had a show for him in Apple W in 2008. And it was raining and it never rains in a way, hardly. Yeah, and you know it's outdoor and it's raining and the promoters come to us in the management's kind of we're going to have to cancel 25,000 people whilst they're playing, you know, and we need to cancel the show because you know audio equipment is worth millions of dollars. What are we going to do? So you know they've contacted Chris Martin while he's on stage. You know the band keeps on going. He's coming up, what's up, what's up and go. Man, it's raining, it's going to storm. You know, what are you going to do?
Speaker 2:We got to turn off the sound, sound, and just the literal example is that the way he adapted to that Challenge was he said I've got this. Was he talking about the sound? He pulls out the acoustic guitar. He says and he just engages the audience because I know it's raining, do? We don't really have much shelter, etc. Etc. But let's make this a night to remember. And he starts singing singing in the rain, you know, and. And the audience just went nuts, mud, sand, whatever it is, it was just, and that that's sketch into my, you know, into my unconscious, in that, super impressed, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, quick adaption.
Speaker 1:So I think it's like like, like a compilation of when you ask me that question, my answer is a different experiences, yeah, that I've had, you know, impressed by can I move on and talk to you about your mentoring and coaching of artists, and you've been associated with a few well known sports people who we know here in Australia. Yeah, what is that encompassed as far as mentoring an artist or some of the personalities you've been involved in? What is that just been like? Okay, get your shit together. Smart enough, sharpen up on stage. You need not to do this, but you need to do that and teach them how to perform. Is that what that has involved?
Speaker 2:Yeah, a bit of everything of that, but I think it's an evolution because I've been in the business for 25 years and and everything from you know an artist being afraid to jump on stage and all yeah, and how would we work with them without having Certification skills like I've gone out and done an NLP course and, yeah, I self on understanding behaviors and and how to influence, but I guess I kept on always, always did that for so many years and then applied my learnings in the music business with some you know, some actual scientific studies to become better at it.
Speaker 2:So, but it's all. It's just a bunch of different stories and issues and and in the music business, with the tourists for dealing with, you know Davis and and rock stars, yeah, and then how do you deal with that and get the best out of them and so so I hope that answers your question, but that's that's how I've evolved to get into, you know, the last two, three years, more into sports, and this is where we obviously sports with you know, work with, because it's the same whether it's you know you're a, you're a AFL legend or player and and your style, will you start like a music star? So yeah, I just I, just you know, use my transferable skills to apply to that, and you know is that getting back to communication.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think communication is is is one of the pillars getting on their level and like really getting them to communicate back.
Speaker 2:Well understanding, you know, because the experience like there's an experience associated with dealing with stars yeah, I know how to deal with them, because if you treat them like a star balancing act, you got to treat him with the respect of a star. But also the same thing is like I don't really care about this. For me, what I care about is you, you know, and your art where it's the way, not not the inflated ego.
Speaker 2:Correct and they tend to respect you more when you are, you know, because they're getting so much praise, praise, praise and you're not coming in with the praise Like a real person. Yeah, it works. Sure, it's a fine balance. It's it's enough, to be honest.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. I think that's getting on that person's level isn't an understanding that they can have so much of their athletics or so much of their music and then when you come in as a bit of a fresh voice and don't in, don't indulge them in that you know consistent saying that they're involved in. I think that is a big thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so so, but I do see the similarities and I think it's like I think we spoke about it the other day when first met. It's just that when you, when you do think for so long, it's like you you might tell me about the sports industry and I say that's so similar to what we do with different issues and how important the mind is and how important rapport is, and just just general understanding of a person.
Speaker 1:So you've gone down that pathway, though haven't you like that sort of mindset coaching?
Speaker 2:I have. I have. I've been fortunate to have my coaching for CEOs, corporates, some sports people. I've had an Olympic Olympic swimmer. I've got a great story with him. He was the oldest Olympian swimmer to qualify for the Olympics in the last one, so I think it was Beijing, was it so?
Speaker 1:Britain, hayden. Is that the one? The Canadian swimmer?
Speaker 2:Yes, so he's from Canada and you know he was like and it was just a, it was like six to eight months before the qualifications and you know everyone said to him that he couldn't make it and one of his issues was that his body would break down before. Every time he'd get to qualify previously his body would break down and he'd have to sleep and all that. And I know that that's got to do with stress, right. So we worked on his mental state. I mean, he came third, which is great, but we got him there. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So the other one's Greg Williams diesel, which is I was just going to say for all the listeners I mean all the footy people out there you have worked with Basahouli yes, I was lucky enough to do a little bit with it Eseden and who he moved on to Richmond Premiership Player Unbelievable, grand final performance. You also mentioned Greg Williams.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, Well, Basah, I told you was in our brief, brief conversation that and I mentored him for a long time and I helped him with his Basahouli Foundation, which I've helped him on some of his camps, just helping the kids with visualization and the power of the brain and how sometimes the brain, sometimes the brain can control the pain. So I'm just teaching them mental fitness skills, which this is what I try to do with, whether it's an athlete or corporate CEO. Is that the importance that we rely on eating good food and exercising but no one's really putting it out there and saying well, we need to exercise our brain and how do we do that? Yeah, that's what I'm really interested in, because that's to try to get the best version of the person or remove limited beliefs and stuff like that. So that's. And the other thing is I do hypnotherapy, so, but that's what it is at the end of the day. It's like Scientific procedures of what we do, but it's really asking the right questions with the unconscious mind starts going okay.
Speaker 1:Well, so what have you actually done with, say, if we use the footballers, for example? I mean, what sort of approach have you had with dealing with those guys?
Speaker 2:Generally it's about unlocking emotions and negative thoughts. So you might let me say, for example, you've got a player that's got extreme skill but too scared to go in.
Speaker 2:Okay, so this is here because this is some traumatic event that's happened prior, that. So we just help them deal with that. So then they will go in and get a little bit more harder. Or you know, because it's everything, everything, every experience, the way you deal with it, could leave an imprint in you and it could be either negative or positive. Sure, so if you haven't dealt with it in a particular way, then yeah.
Speaker 2:So I've worked with, yeah, things like that, and also with coaches, which is really important, where, by understanding your players more in depth and what their primary patterns are so a group of them that are visual and you've got a group that are more process-orientated and you've got a group that's very kinesthetic the communication with each one could be a lot more effective by you understanding their primary patterns. Who is this I was working on? It's a quick, quick, you know, five-question survey understanding their primary patterns. It's not 100%, but it's roughly. Their primary and secondary patterns, yeah. An example is that if you've got a group of visuals, you'd say do you see them? Okay? Yeah, if you're dealing with a kinesthetic feeling type, you'd say does that feel right? Right, so you're talking their language. You've got to be a lot more effective with your communication. It's little things, but it's an added resource which I'm very surprised that I don't do enough of it here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so this is being tactful, getting on their level.
Speaker 2:Well, more than just rapport. You know, that's what you think about it. A coach can get through to that player and that player more than you can get to the other player and he thinks, oh well, because he's more coachable. No, not necessarily it's, maybe it's because of your communication. Yeah, so it's asking different types of questions Now, but I've been fortunate and.
Speaker 2:I love the AFL and you know I'm an advert carton supporter, so and working with Greg Williams is a delight because he's like one of my favorite players as a kid growing up. So, yeah, there's a lot of different things we do. These are the small, small examples of. Just one is understanding if someone's got a limited belief and giving them a different perspective, yeah, and then also giving them mental exercises on what to do. I want you to visualize, I want you to do this. We create a vision board forum. There's a whole bunch of different things that we can do, right, so to help them manifest what they want to achieve without the limitations. And then the other thing is the communication the way you communicate and the way you communicate to yourself, which is super important. These are all unconscious things that we don't realize. We're communicating to ourselves Like, oh, am I good enough? Yeah, am I going to get this, you know, and this is some stuff. So what's the meaning of that self-belief?
Speaker 1:So from that experience of dealing with those guys at that level and also the artists you've dealt with at a high level of performing, what messages can you really take home and pass on for someone up and coming or listening? We've got a young player or a young performer who's listening.
Speaker 2:One of the key things is that there's always and today we're in a great time where there's resources out there to help you get to wherever you need to get to. That is the one thing I'd like to say is that, whether you want to become the music artist of the football star, anyone can make it. So one is be teachable. Go find out the you know, go find people that are great resources. Study success, because success leaves clue, and model yourself on some of the greatest. If you look at someone like Chris Judd, which is a great example of a football, the guy is he's on it, right. Or Greg Williams right, absolutely. He's going to the game, no fuss, is just going out there to get his and, knowing Greg pretty well, you know he'd have a goal, that he'd go right in each quarter. I need to get a minimum of 10 to 15 possessions. That was his game plan. I'm getting it right so and he'd go in there with a plan of vision. So, yeah, I guess what I want to say is that success leaves clues. Someone can make it, and go out there and surround yourself with great, positive people and just go do research, educate yourself as much as you can and surround yourself with good people that you know, that know what they're doing.
Speaker 2:So if I come to you and I say to you, jason, you know you're telling me, listen, rich, I want to start up a business and I've never, ever started up a business. But I'm telling you, mate, you can't do that. So get the information from the right sources. This is the point. Get the information from someone that's done it. So you want to. If you want it to become a rock star, you come to me right, because I've done it. I know what it takes. I know about the endurance or marathon. You know, you've done marathons. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm going to tell you, you know, like you know, I mean I'll go to a doctor and he tells me to quit smoking, and he's smoking a cigarette. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Someone in the gym. No, yeah, yeah, mate, you can do it. You know You've got to fit the part, but that's what I'm saying. There's a lot of people that talk and they're great at talking and it can be really smooth, but what I say is always is to go out there and do some due diligence, know your audience and know who you're talking to and just be a person that really wants to be educated and learn from everything. So that's my key.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's good. I mean we've spoken about this a few times on this show in different episodes about how I mean what has resonated just then, what you said is use the resources around you, whatever they may be, but particularly the people, and we've spoken about athletically how it takes. You know, for you to be the best you can be, you've got to have that best circle of people around you, like, no matter what sort of what they bring, it's got to be the best person for you. But it does take time to sort of set that up and we often talk about it takes six to 12 months for an athlete to end up with the right people around them and when you get it right the really smart people, they don't change the circle. That's right. And I know someone I've worked with and in her 13 year journey not one person was, you know, removed and replaced from that circle of resources. It was so important.
Speaker 2:There's two things I want to say. Your vibratrix you tried, because one is that when you start changing your frequency and you start, you know, taking it to another level and it shoots up, then sometimes even just like in life, you had a great friend at 20, he's not likely your friend, yeah yeah, you don't change, right, yeah.
Speaker 2:And then you get to that new circle because your vibratrix not that you've changed. You know they might say, oh, you've changed, you're not the same bloke. No, I'm not, I've changed and that's okay. So that was a good point. That was the one sort of thing. I I don't know if I'll get the other one but and the other thing is that within your circle and I'm gonna give you the example, because I've had so many situations where I deal with an artist and I say everybody loves it I'm like dude, your friends are listening to the track, your mom's listening to the track. Of course they're gonna be your fan.
Speaker 2:So people of and it goes back to having a really good opinion leader. That's gonna give you the hard truth, because some people could be like this is the best, because mom's always gonna say no, it's the best, or could be like mom could be the opposite guy on my son can never do it Right. But the thing is, don't take things on face value. Actually go out there and be objective when you're going out there to, because everything's like a sample test. Taste it, see what it's like. So and I've dealt with a lot of mummy managers before that have managed artists and they're trying to relive their own experiences.
Speaker 2:Experiences where they wanted to become that at 16, but instilling it into their door and they've got a lot of crazy stories.
Speaker 1:Is that? A big part of what you've done with the artists is like dealing with parents and people around them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the young ones, the younger artists I've signed. I've signed probably the youngest is probably I worked with a nine year old that she was freaking, amazing. And then to the extreme, where I signed an 81 year old famous artist, painter, who could no longer use her hands because she had arthritis, that she used the creativity into the music, the producing music. So extreme cases of both, and both require different sort of different velvet gloves. Sometimes you know being hard and I mean, I guess at the end of the day and I guess it's similar to your business is that with everything you try to do, you try to do it ethically and have that velvet glove, but also be real, because you're not doing someone a favor by not being real.
Speaker 2:You don't care. You know you could be in the case of, like Greg Williams, you know two times. You know Brandlow Metalers, premiership Player, et cetera, et cetera. Sometimes they just wanna hear it real, that's what they're coming to you. And then if you do it ethically then and with real care, then you know and I don't know at all either, but it's just an opinion that where I'm going in wholeheartedly trying to help someone, that's all.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so we're two from here for you. As far as dealing with the music industry and adapting to, I suppose, the new world of streaming and getting artists up and mentoring them to be the best performer they could be, where, two from here for you? What's on the horizon?
Speaker 2:Well, like I said to you, I'm currently with Waters and I've got quite a unique role, a hybrid, based in Melbourne, but I travel to Dubai and so I'm continuing. I'm doing both of my passions. I mean, the future horizon looks like you're using still the music industry stuff, more so now on the commercial than the A&R traditional A&R role. It's more of a simple term, it's more like a project manager. It's like we've got a team of A&R and you say right, and they'll come to you and say what do you think of this? Do you think this is good? Should we sign this? Yeah, and ask the questions of right, is this commercial? I'll have a listen to it feel sometimes there's no data, there's no, nothing, but the song is got potential, you know. So, okay, so that's on the music side.
Speaker 2:So continuing to do that and trying to establish myself back in Australia, because I've been out of Australia for so long. And then my other real passion is sports. So I want to get more into sports in Australia and my ultimate goal is is how can I help that person with the experiences that I have wholeheartedly, to get them to become the best version of themselves? That's it. Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 1:Exactly, and that's what it's about, isn't it? As far as performance goes, is getting the best out of yourself. It's not like you can have goals, but you have to focus on yourself and get the most out of you.
Speaker 2:And I think the real question is why are you doing what you're doing? And that's the question I always ask why are you doing what you're doing? And it's okay, because if it's about the fame, that's okay, that's the. I want the fame, that's okay. I'm not going to judge you. A good coach should never judge you. What your decisions are right or whatever the reason. Oh, I want to do it because I want to send out the message yeah, my communication to the world to become more peaceful, or whatever my music and whatever it is, and that's okay, it's fine. Everyone's different folks, different strokes, so it's all good.
Speaker 1:But I've got to tell you I have that all the time about this show why are you spending so much time doing this stuff for this podcast show? And my answer is always like it's just a fun thing. And I'm fascinated but really passionate about people, both in my daily work but and I'm just intrigued with people's stories, like when you and I met, we just started talking straight away and I was like I found it's just so interesting and you know you meet, like I've met yourself and others who are from a different, you know, working world to me and everyone has a great story.
Speaker 2:But do you see, the similarities at the same time.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, there is for sure. But the second thing I'm asked is like not just you know, the first one being why are you doing this show? And you know, just like a fun thing to do. And when I had, when I was on air with one of the Melbourne radio stations, my, my funnest thing was interviewing people, just learning about what people were on about. But the second thing I'm asked, which is amazing, and that's just I think it's signed at the time. So are you gonna make any money out of this? How are you gonna make any money? It's like you know what happened. I haven't even thought about that, like it doesn't even cross my it doesn't even come into my radar.
Speaker 2:Can I give you a good example about something Some of the most successful artists I've worked with did not go in there for the money, yeah, and that that was the most astonishing thing. They just had an absolute. And here's the thing you know, a lot of the A&Rs like to take a lot of credit for, you know, breaking an artist, but they would have done it with or without you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, they've got it, they've got it in their eyes. Whether you're looking at a runner and you go like this guy, she's got it right, she gotta do it. All I gotta give is a couple of tips and you know from experience. Sometimes I don't even have to, but I still do think. The other thing is I really believe in that 10,000 hour model.
Speaker 2:I think to be an expert in something you've got to, I could say, you know, I'm an expert in the music business and in the mental coaching space because I've spent hours and hours and hours crafting on my on becoming better. So, just like what I, what I push to people, I try to walk. Well, I do walk to walk because I I studied the greats you know in my business and that could be someone like the Clive Davis or Quincy Jones or an understanding what they did, yeah, that's what they were. It's not just about luck and, yeah, you could say luck, but they've attracted that luck Thing is is about looking at it and going all right, there is an opportunity in every single aspect, in every, every different interaction. Most times, right, yeah, that's cool, you know. So that's the way my, my sort of philosophy is.
Speaker 2:But I'm excited about my new, new, you know, embarking back in Melbourne. You know I moved back in February. I had a wonderful year. This year. Carton had a great season, which is great. You know they almost went to the top and you know I would go into the football again, and, and, and you know, enjoying let's call it more of a real life compared to what I've been used to.
Speaker 1:Sure, that's great. I love the message you've left me with study success. Success leaves clues. I think that's a fantastic message to pass on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it definitely does. It definitely does, and you'd know that in your business, I mean, you know For sure it does. And then the other thing is, I guess, do what you do, what you love to do, you know, try to make. I've been fortunate, jason, that my vocation has been a passion, right, so I would have put it short to listen, to know. But you know, I've been a DJ for 30 years, right, right, I would have done DJing for free, right? What are the? I couldn't care less. I just wanted to go into a venue and play songs and make people have a wonderful experience.
Speaker 2:But when you're able to do a job, that really doesn't feel like work, don't get me wrong, all of it, anything, whether it's the most funnest job at all, even a podcast or whatever. Sometimes you will have times where you're challenged and it is like work, but I'm talking about a majority of the time where you're doing what you love to do. I think that, for me, is trying to live a fulfilled life, you know, instead of going. All right, I'm making money, I work for Coca-Cola, I work in a bank and the bills, but I'm, you know, as you know, depressed as shit, you know. So.
Speaker 1:I think what you're saying is if you've got that passion that drives your longevity.
Speaker 2:But is that the same for you?
Speaker 1:Absolutely, there's no doubt, absolutely, no doubt.
Speaker 1:I mean, on my other show for podiatrists simply the best podiatrist we talk about pacing yourself and managing yourself so you have that longevity and maintaining the passion for people instead of drilling yourself. You know, 80 hours a week, so but I think the you know the thing that starts it off is having that passion and trying to manage yourself better to keep that. It's interesting professionally in allied health. You may or may not know, but there's like more than 50% attrition rate within five years and it's because people just absolutely hammer themselves or they haven't had the fascinations and the passions from the outset. They thought they were going into something that was going to be cool or, you know, monetary for them, and they've just like pulled the pin after a short period of time.
Speaker 2:And then what happens is that you know, or the coach says so you know what. Just play like you used to play when you were 16 years old. Yeah. And all of a sudden it's like, wow, a new coach.
Speaker 1:You know, we've seen that and we've seen that several times or many times with people changing clubs and changing training groups or whatever, and they just you know, really blossom.
Speaker 2:And one of the things that they always say is the other thing is you know, the grass is not green on the other side, the grass is greener where you water it, you know. So we go out and put the water in and you got to invest in that. It's just you know, old school sort of like beliefs of value is that you know they still stand today. There's a really good thing that Tony Robbins says is the secret of living is giving. Go out and give.
Speaker 2:You get a back 10-fold, you know. But yeah, we think oh no no, I can't give you know like, oh my God, I'm going to lose like very limited in the thinking, and that's I guess. What I'm trying to do is is use my international experience to expand different thinking and I'm hoping that I'm able to add value to the sports industry. My passion is AFL. I love the sport.
Speaker 1:I think there's a huge avenue there, because what we know is that there's not a lot of mentoring that goes on. There's a lot that's very insular. I think we might have had this chat, but just from experience, the organizations are very insular and they don't let much in from outside because they almost are protective of that. Everything's just so right the way we've gotten, we've got the right people and they're not open at all to their thinking and letting different aspects in and different people, but with Richmond that they're turning point, a lot of got to say it's got to do with Dr Emma Murray.
Speaker 2:I'm not sure if you know who she is yes, yeah, yeah. And she's. We have the same sort of issues and our P coach also and she went in with Dusty Martin a lot. Yeah, and they went in and come into training and she'd go right. Today we're going to do, you know, visualization. We're going to do anchor rig or whatever. It is all these NLP terms of psychology, to get the best best out of them. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Obviously it's not just her, it's having, you know, great CEO, like you know, like Peggy and the GM which is Gail, and then Hardwick and that whole nucleus again by attracting the tribe and the vibe, you know that help. And having the right players, I mean like a bachelor who the Enrichments are great. Case study I mean Dusty was, you know he's a freak, but having someone on that team which is completely different culture, islamic background, very, very grounded, very humble, etc. The acceptance of human acceptance of that and that creates, you know, I know a lot of stories from the inside that that created that bonding that they had. You know, sometimes adversity creates. You know it's amazing what that can do Exactly. It's a great way to go forward and it can work backwards, just like life.
Speaker 1:How many times have we hear that in that grand final who leader Martin? Who leader Martin? No, no, no, no. But her, the psychologist input? No, dr Emma Murray, emma Murray sorry, I'm trying to get her on the show actually, but yeah, I mean, obviously she's had a massive influence with developing the thinking or the thought process of these guys. And then you've got someone at the helm, like you know, the coach, who has been there and done it, and I think it's just a resource.
Speaker 2:Jason like we like to take, you know, ownership of things. But I think it's just. It's a clever move, it's like a great hire that someone does in the company, but it's an additional resource to compliment your coaching. That's the way it's got to be. I mean it's and you got to have the, the buying. You don't have the buying. She means nothing at the end of the day. I can come to you and you say to me Rich, I've got a problem. This if you, you don't have the buying or the belief that you can change and you could be sold. So I reckon, kudos to all of them, that all of them involved, because if you look at that as a great, it's a great case study. A year before they want to want to sack, yeah, they said that's it. I had some, someone tried to spill the board and a whole bunch of different things. That's right.
Speaker 2:They rallied together, they got a couple of highs in, they got her in and they all stood, and then I put the resources intact. Yeah, story telling, don't you think that's what we do Exactly?
Speaker 1:That's it, and that's passing on the passions, isn't it? And experiences, and and being open to learning. You've got to be teachable.
Speaker 2:The first things that I do when I coach someone. I have a process. If I could share that with you, I have three. It's three things, right, so I do it. First thing, I do an audit, right? So in that audit, is we call it, let's call it the discovery phase, right? Yeah? Yeah, I want to know how teachable you are Now. If you don't pass that, you know I'll go on to the next step, you sure. Thank you very much, I can't help you go see someone else.
Speaker 1:So I know exactly what you mean. I've had recent case, yeah, with this point. It was so disappointing, though too Well not to get past that first day because you really want to help. I actually found it really like not disturbing but, yeah, disappointing.
Speaker 2:Psychology is a crazy thing, you know. Some people get comfortable in in in a place of sadness, you know, because they're so used to it and we don't want to change and there's a whole bunch of different things. But from discovery I got it. From discovery to action and getting goals, and you know, understanding what, what we've got, setting goals and with the action, and then the last part is nurturing, mentoring and maintenance of that there's. The whole program is like that. My program is called lion. Lion is an acronym which is lead, inspire, own and nurture. So that's that's what I. My philosophy is around it's not the video end door, but in general, that's what I would try to push Perfect.
Speaker 1:Perfect. Well, we'll make sure we put all this up on the show notes, as well as resources for people to refer to. That's great. But that's so good, because it was like you spoke about be positive, resort, use your resources and get the people around you on board, or good people. But the study success success leaves clues. So good to speak to you, and so it's such a pleasure to meet you.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, it's a pleasure, pleasure is my.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just really super appreciate your time and following this up so promptly, because it was only a couple of days ago anyway that we touched base. But I really appreciate your time and thanks for coming on. The champion with Enrich, thank you. Thank you, it's a pleasure. Thanks for listening More details in the show notes, where you can also follow and support this show. Stay tuned to the champion within and I'll be with you again soon.
