The Champion Within
This is a series with fascinating and inspiring people, and what it takes to be the best you can at whatever your endeavours may be.
We will learn from others as to how they have handled themselves in their own pursuits, and so that we can apply to ourselves.
We’ll talk about the necessary support and how important it is, to have the best and appropriate systems around us, so that we can be the best possible. We’ll discuss aspects of ourselves that we can all develop.
This is a show with inspiring people, including musicians, artists, athletes, medical specialists, business entrepreneurs and more…in the pursuit of excellence.
I’m Jason Agosta, a health professional and former athlete, and I'm fascinated in people’s stories, my own involves developing certain attributes over time, but also things that were not done well or were significantly missing.
Join me on The Champion Within in discovering that everybody has a story, and everybody has a message.
@the_championwithin
@jasonagosta
jason@ja-podiatry.com
The Champion Within
Ep.21 Kate Parker: Sea Shepherd...Marine Conservation, Vaquita Rescue, and Marine Plastic Pollution
Dive headfirst into a world where courage meets conservation, with the indomitable Kate Parker from Sea Shepherd, guiding us through the frosty skirmishes in Antarctica to the heated battles in the Gulf of California. Joining me, Jason Agosta, Kate unveils the gritty reality of Sea Shepherd's quest to rescue the enigmatic Vaquita porpoise from the brink of extinction and their relentless war on illegal fishing. Together, we navigate the complexities of the marine conservation frontier, where every removed net counts and alliances with local communities are critical in upholding the sanctuary of our seas.
This episode doesn't just capture the essence of environmental heroism; it throws you into the eye of the storm, where the fight against the unseen enemy of plastic pollution rages on. We share chilling vignettes from beaches littered with debris, a testament to the far-reaching tentacles of our convenience culture. The conversation is a rallying cry for awareness, as we dissect the profound impact of our daily choices on the ocean's health and future. Tune in for an awakening to the stark reality that stretches beyond our coastlines and into the deep blue.
Our journey with Sea Shepherd culminates in a profound reflection on the transformative power of activism, from a deckhand's evolution into a maritime officer to the personal revolutions that redefine our commitment to the planet. By weaving tales of high-seas bravery with a call to embed environmentalism into education, this episode serves as a beacon of inspiration. It celebrates the victories within the Viquita Refuge and honors the rich biodiversity of our oceans, once hailed as the "Aquarium of the World" by Jacques Cousteau himself. Prepare to be moved, motivated, and mobilized to chart a course towards a legacy of enduring ocean conservation.
www.seashepherd.org
@ladyparker1984
@seashepherdaustralia
www.tangaroablue.org
@tangaroablue
@daughtersofthedeep
https://films.nationalgeographic.com/sea-of-shadows/#/
@jasonagosta
@the_championwithin
Hi there and thanks for tuning into the Champion Within. I am Jason Agosta and today I've been really looking forward to getting this forward. We have an episode regarding Sea Shepherd and a wonderful person in Kate Parker. Kate Parker has been involved with Sea Shepherd since 2015, which is an international direct action marine conservation movement. The mission is to protect marine wildlife and the destruction of the habitats in the world's oceans and assist with marine debris. Sea Shepherd has used innovative direct action tactics to defend, conserve and protect our seas and enforce international conservation laws. Sea Shepherd documents and takes a stand for critical ecosystems against illegal fishing where poaching affects other marine life. In delicate ecosystems, sea Shepherd is active in deterring any illegal activities and bringing in local communities and authorities and law enforcement to support and manage. I spoke to Kate Parker, who has crewed and driven the vessels of Sea Shepherd in the last couple of years.
Speaker 1:Kate describes the mission of Sea Shepherd and the action taken in Malagro to save a marine environment and the extinction of the Vakita porpoise, all due to illegal fishing of the Totoaba fish in the Gulf of California. The Vakita is also known as the Smiley Panda of the Sea Due to the dark circles around its eyes and mouth and was listed as critically endangered since 1996. In 2019, united Nations UNESCO organization added the Gulf of California to its list of world heritage in danger due to the imminent extinction of the Vakita porpoise. A protected refuge for the Vakita was established in 2005. The Malagro mission that Kate has been involved and discusses can be seen in Sea of Shadows, a 2019 documentary on Nat Geo documentaries and Apple TV about environmental activists, sea Shepherd, including the Mexican Navy, marine scientists and investigators trying to prevent the extinction of the Vakita, which involved fighting back Mexican cartels and Chinese mafia who were destroying ocean habitats in their pursuit to harvest the Totoaba fish, known as the Cocaine of the Sea. This is Kate Parker. Thanks for doing this. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2:So great, yeah, that's totally fine.
Speaker 1:This is always so casual.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Two people sitting on the couch, bringing others into the land room. Think of it like that.
Speaker 2:Perfect.
Speaker 1:But what I wanted to I was just thinking of this driving in just now is that? What I wanted to start with was most of us have heard of Sea Shepherd. We've seen the stickers on the cars, but we don't actually know exactly what it stands for or what goes on, and, from what I understand, it's all about the preservation of marine wildlife. Correct? It's more than that, though, isn't it? If you can tell me that? It's more than that, it's about the environmental side of things as well Saving environments for marine life or of marine life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, I'm not an official spokesperson for Sea Shepherd. These are just my opinions based on my experiences, and I can speak about what I know Sea Shepherd to be.
Speaker 1:Obviously, this has been going on for a long time and it's not just an Australian based organization, which I thought it was. This is global, this is an international organization and it's got lots of bases around the world.
Speaker 2:Correct. Yeah, loads of different ships and loads of different places that we operate out of. I think it's sort of famous in Australia because what sort of propelled Sea Shepherd into the spotlight really was whale wars that was on Animal Planet. That featured the whaling that's happening in Antarctica.
Speaker 2:So I think Australia's always had that close connection to Sea Shepherd and people think it is an Australian organization because of the proximity to Antarctica and the stuff that we do in Australia to raise awareness about what's happening in Antarctica. Actually, originally it's from Europe, right? Actually, originally originally from Canada, yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, but because it's sort of spread out globally I mean, there's been missions everywhere- from what I've read. It's like one you mentioned Antarctica, but then there's one of France, and it just goes on once you start looking into it.
Speaker 2:Yes, so the organization has been around for over 40 years, so there's literally hundreds of campaigns that have happened and, yes, a lot of them are repetitive every year in the same place. So the Mexican one is the one that I've been to a lot, but Antarctica happened many, many times. There's a lot of things happening in Africa at the minute, but some of them are just sort of one-off campaigns that happen and just meet the need at the time.
Speaker 1:And has it been more about, like the anti-whaling and the conservation of marine life, or has it been for you, like what you've been involved in has been protection of environmental places?
Speaker 2:Kind of a bit of both. So a lot of the offshore campaigns would be more directly stopping the damage that's happening to wildlife out in the ocean. So whether that's boarding vessels and checking what people are catching, or whether it's in Malagra or Mexico, we literally pull the nets out of the ocean and stop in animals from getting hurt there. But there's a lot of indirect work that happens. So in Australia we have like the Marine Debris campaign and we hose beach cleanups all the time. We have a lot going down and collecting plastic off the ocean, counting what was washed up on the beach, counting what we found, putting it into a database, using that information to go and rally for changing government and try and ban single use plastic bags, things like that. So it's really from like every angle, like whatever we can do, whether it's protecting the environment, whether it's going to climbing rallies to try and share more information and protest against people who deny the fact that the oceans are warming and all those kind of things.
Speaker 2:So it's a very realistic thing. But I suppose the thing that Sea Shepherd is most famous for is those vessels going offshore and going directly to oppose whatever's happening in the oceans.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:But really there's stuff happening at the government level. There's pushing, there's advocacy in Australia around all the shark nets that are happening in Queensland and in New Zealand and WA. So there's a lot of stuff happening at a political level based off information that we've gathered from observations. But so it's probably the less sexy part of Sea Shepherd, but yeah, there's a whole bunch of different things that are happening all around the world.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I think what most of us are being exposed to through the media is just the active sort of campaigns like you drive a massive ship and you take that ship beside another massive ship which is doing illegal fishing or whatever it might be. So most of us have seen that, yeah, the operation, as I read and as I understand, operates under the maritime or the international laws correct like, and I read that Interpol's involved.
Speaker 2:Yeah, come be.
Speaker 1:So it's an interesting point though, because we sort of have. Well, my Impression was oh, this is an organization which is just out there just driving a ship and hosing another one down and ramming another boat that's doing wailing and things like that, but it's actually operating under laws. Yeah and with military support though, too, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Correct and it depends on the country and what we're doing, but I think I think that is the nature of you know, an NGO that's come from a very grassroots place and has Grown to this international, global organization along the way. Things have changed and that's not to say anyone is better or worse, but I do think it's great that the organization now is is not necessarily all about sort of kamikaze. Let's go out and like ramp some ships and do it outside of anyone's support, but it's actually working alongside local government.
Speaker 2:So in a lot of cases, for example, you know, in Africa, or what we're doing in Mexico, we're, we're working with local authorities to police the waters themselves and they might not necessarily have the capacity, the boats, you know whatever to go.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you sort of facilitate that policing exactly, yeah, so it's making the arrests.
Speaker 2:It's not us that are enforcing the laws. We are facilitating the law enforcers in the country to do it themselves. So it's bringing fisheries ministers on or fisheries Employees on to the boats to actually make that call and put those fines, and whether it's calling Interpol and getting them to get involved, that's just. We're there because it's not really much policing that happens in the oceans around. Yeah, that's a sort of highlight and I think that type of work is probably more effective in the long run to enable People to enforce their own laws rather than us, you know, trying to go in there and impact.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so this makes me think there must have been so many hairy situations because people are clearly armed with the illegal fishing and whatever goes on. Yeah, where do you stand with that? Like you drive the ship, yeah, where do you stand with that when there's you're approaching another or you know illegal fishing group? Yeah, they're armed. Yeah, what actually happens like it must be volatile.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly. So I guess it really depends on each different campaign as to what the level of dangers are, what that situation is. I can probably only really talk to the Malagro campaign in Mexico, where I'm joining, to explain a little bit for the background that way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that one's been running now for, I think, 12 years. So essentially in a very small part in the northern part of the Gulf of California, which is just on the inside of the west of Mexico. There's a small porpoise there called a Viquita, and it only lives in that area, as did indigenous. That area and its population has been on mass decline and it's a going to go extinct, or it was going to go extinct, because there's a lot of fishing that's happening in that area to catch a fish called the totoaba, and the nets that they use is, incidentally, killing this Viquita porpoise. So the porpoise is not the target of the fishing but it, because it only lives in that small area and the fishing around there is so dense, a lot of the are getting tangled in those nets right.
Speaker 2:And the fish that they're trying to catch Is swim bladder, is shipped over to Asia and it sold at one point it was worth more than cocaine and so there's kind of a lot of people trying to get their hands on this fish, including the cartel Swap from drug running to fish catching because it was more lucrative.
Speaker 1:So you're involved with the cartels? Yes, correct, and so when?
Speaker 2:so I've been actually been doing that campaign now for the last eight out of ten years and when we first started going out there there was a lot more Viquita, it was a lot more. People didn't really know what was going on. People were a lot more afraid of us. So we would go out and you know, if we were in our small beds at nighttime and they came across, as they would, you know scatter, and we were using.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they were afraid of us. They didn't really know what the situation was with sea shepherd and where we sat in relation to the government and law enforcement, which is that we, you know, we can't enforce laws ourselves. We're just there to kind of highlight the situation. And then, you know, at that time we were using drones at nighttime because they would set the nets at night. So we're using drones with night vision to find out where they were dropping their nets, and then we would go the next day and then pulling them physically, pulling them out of the water and releasing any animals that we could and, yeah, just trying to remove as many nets as we could from that situation.
Speaker 2:But over the years, these people who were trying to catch the fish illegally, they sort of tested the waters a little bit with us and they tried to see how we would react to violent situations.
Speaker 2:Or you know what was our line and so on. One of the campaigns think it was Malaga, for they shot one of our drones Out of the sky and the vessel actually got shot as well shot at, should I say. And so as a result of that, because at that point we had no military protection whatsoever, it was just a bunch of volunteers on ship. And then after that we then partnered with the Mexican Navy and got the Mexican Navy on board and then those guys have got, you know, the, the armor and the protection right and from that point onwards, if, if anything happened, they would. They would be taking obviously the lead in kind of defending the vessel. And then over the years they got more and more confident and they started, you know, attacking our vessels. So, like our ships would get attacked, they would throw lead weights, knives, there was like a lot of Molotov cocktails.
Speaker 2:They set up boats on fire, there was like a lot of battles that were happening because they were trying to get us to leave the area and then, as a result of that, our level of security shifted and changed and now we've actually come all the way through that, that we're at quite a peaceful situation. We have independent employees to carry on board to protect the crew, but actually the last time it was there last year, the interactions that we have with the cartel these days, or with the illegal poachers should I say not necessarily cartel, but often attached has much minimized. And now we're patrolling a stat area where the Vakita lives and the Vakita population, for the first time ever, is no longer in decline, it's stabilizing.
Speaker 2:Fantastic We've pulled a lot of nets out of there and they tend to be just sort of leaving us alone, so it's not like a perfect picture, obviously, rather that they weren't catching that fish anywhere at all. But at least we've managed to get to a point where we've got an area that's fairly well kept away from illegal fishing and the Vakita hopefully has a chance to kind of recover, because they got down to less than 10 left in the world Right.
Speaker 1:So just can you spell that out for me? The Vakita. V-a-q-u-i-t-a. Okay, and the cocaine fish. I'll call that.
Speaker 2:The Toto Abba.
Speaker 1:Is that being still caught and still sold, but it's lesser.
Speaker 2:I believe that a few things have happened. Look, it was a very complex picture. I've really kind of stumbled through the explanation there. There's a lot of different stakeholders, a lot of things are happening, it's you know. Yeah, it's more gray than it is black and white, but yes, the Toto Abba at one point was worth, I think, like 80, I don't even want to say an awful lot of money. I believe the price has dropped now and I don't know why that is. I'm not sure whether it's because we're not really sure what's happened there, whether because there was so much getting shipped over there that just brought the price down in general, and maybe that is why the poachers are in the area less, or maybe they've moved somewhere else, or maybe they're just sick of the amount of involvement and harassment that they're getting from us being there and constantly calling the Navy on them.
Speaker 2:And maybe it's just not worth their bother. Every time we pull their nets out of the ocean they're about $1,000. I understand the actual nets that they use. So we're costing them a lot of money just by pulling those nets out. So yeah, for whatever reason, I think the last I heard the price of the Toto Abba had gone down a bit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and is Sea Shepherd the only organization in that area doing that, or is it like side by side with other groups?
Speaker 2:No, there's other groups involved as well.
Speaker 2:There's like local the Balai, and as they have had a boat and they were joined us with us and also local fishermen, so it is complex. I probably haven't explained it deeply enough. There's an amazing documentary called Sea of Shadows that will go more into the depth of that. It features Sea Shepherd, but it also talks about the local community, the impact had on the community, the fishermen versus the poachers. So we have to be really careful to say fishermen, not poachers, because there's a lot of local fishermen who just want to go out and fish and because of everything that's happening in that area, they've had a lot of bands on fishing and things like that which they meant that they couldn't even survive. So we work in collaboration with them. So some of the local fishermen were helping us remove the illegal nets because they just wanted to get back to their way of fishing. So there's quite a few people that will work with Sea Shepherd as well.
Speaker 1:That makes sense though, doesn't it? Because you're obviously trying to assist the community, but you've got to get them involved with. The masses are always going to work better, yeah exactly yeah. So is there other areas that you've been involved in? You mentioned Mexico, but other sort of campaigns.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so mostly Mexico. I did the last Antarctica campaign. That was my very first campaign. That was in 2016. And, yes, so Operation Nemesis that was called and yeah, I think that one was relatively successful. It wasn't the high drama that we've seen in a lot of Antarctica campaigns where literally the San Larell and the Nishimaru, two of the Japanese whaling vessels, squashed the bobbocker in between it and you can see they're like water cannons everywhere.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I remember seeing that.
Speaker 2:Lots of videos. Yeah, that was an incredibly brave decision by the captain, who stayed in that position for three days to prevent them from refuelling. That's what they were trying to do. They're trying to refuel so they could stay down and keep on fishing, which is actually illegal to refuel at that part of the world, but anyway.
Speaker 2:So we didn't have anything like that, but we did successfully find the whaling fleet and we did chase them and we managed to prevent one of the vessels from whaling because they were chasing us. But eventually we did have to go home. So when we ran out of fuel we went back and then after we left, they caught the quota that they had set out to catch. So it was a mixture of costing them a lot of money, causing them to not be able to catch as much while we were there. But then I think that was maybe one of the catalysts as to why they stopped doing the Antarctic campaigns, because it's extremely expensive and it's kind of David Goliath situation and we're not always as effective as we can be in other areas or resources in other ways. That has not been.
Speaker 1:I was just thinking about that. There's organisations that you're involved with and others. How effective is it? Like, if we talk about that whaling situation or other campaigns, like, is it constantly David and Goliath situation? I mean?
Speaker 2:yeah.
Speaker 1:And then the movement is bringing the local governments and the local law enforcement.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, and I guess, within all of that, the most powerful tool we have is media. So whilst we weren't physically able to stop them from catching all of those whales, we did manage to catch them. We had a helicopter. We caught them with a whale on the back of their deck, which, funnily enough, they then pulled a tarp hole in over when we got there, but it was just like a whale shaped tarp on the back deck and we were like all right, cool, nothing to see here.
Speaker 2:But that image that we took on that campaign I heard it was one of the most shared images that C-Shepard has ever put out and so even just to get into the public consciousness and awareness of what's happening. We might not always be successful on the front lines every single time, but if we can pump out the media, if we can make people be aware of what's actually happening, then they can then make their own choices around things like whether they agree with mass fishing and also, if they really feel passionate, making their own requests to government to change fishing practices and international laws and things like that. So it's not necessarily all about the effectivity in the moment, which is, of course, important, but it's also about showing the world and getting people's attention and helping people to get to the point of understanding that you go and buy a catatune in the supermarket. You've probably killed a whole bunch of animals, including whales, and you can love whales Whales are so pretty but you need to understand what's going on there.
Speaker 1:Like the, joint arts kind of thing.
Speaker 2:So it's a lot about advocacy as well as it is about the actual demonstrable work that we do.
Speaker 1:So we're talking about marine wildlife environment, the marine environment. What about the debris? You touched on it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so waste.
Speaker 1:I mean, have you seen much out there? I mean, you drive a big ship here, yeah, absolutely. Out where most of us will never go, and it's just so intrigued about that because it's obviously a big brass, but also the oceans.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I think that plastic in the oceans is almost, if not the same amount of pressure on our ocean systems as global warming is going to be Like I think it is escalating out of control and again, people just aren't aware they've sent those really deep submarines down to the bottom of the marina trench and whatever found plastic bottles, like plastic will outlive us all, for sure. And the amount of plastic that's entering the oceans I saw a statistic it's like one dump truck every minute. It's like 150 million tons every day. I don't know, it's just an outrageous amount.
Speaker 1:And sorry, it was 150 million tons a day dumped into the ocean.
Speaker 2:It's one dump truck a minute was the statistic I looked at, but 150 million tons, I don't know a minute a day, I'm not sure One dump truck.
Speaker 1:a minute I'm going to tell you the story Talking about.
Speaker 1:You've just reminded me talking about this. You know that image that you see in paradise, where the palm trees on this beautiful beach and the reef is crystal clear border and the reef is extraordinary and colorful. Anyway, I'm surfing this place and everyone else went in around to the jetty on the boat and I stayed out anyway, when it was time I had enough, I paddled straight into this little island and I was in the middle of the Indian Ocean. And as I'm paddling towards this island, I go oh my God, this is this image of this is postcard perfect. It's got everything in that. I'll never forget it. Then, as I get closer to the beach, I think, oh my God, what is that on the beach? And as I get closer and closer, all it was was the waste that was generated from the industry on the island and anyway, there was a Coke factory on the island where I was and there was so many people had moved on to the island to live there, but all the waste was literally just thrown on the beach.
Speaker 1:Yeah never, ever forget that. Yeah, and it was my first time of actually experiencing like the extent of what you know. I suppose man's ignorance is. Yeah totally, and the marine world.
Speaker 2:Correct Unless you see it with your own eyes. It's sometimes well obviously outside our mind, which is the biggest problem with the oceans, whether it comes to fishing and sustainable anything or whatever plastics. It's all kind of hidden but sometimes you stumble across those places and it's not necessarily the place locally that's created the plastic, although obviously in that situation it was. But I think I think I've talked to you before about like a lot of our marine debris team and sea ship but they go up and do very, very remote beach cleans up in.
Speaker 2:You know it's on land and very, very remote places and the apps that you covered in trash, like so much plastic, but it's all swept down on the currents from somewhere else Right okay, from that area, but yeah, they have. Have you heard of the five gyres?
Speaker 1:No. So there's five great big plastic patches just floating around in the ocean, and when I say the Pacific one, the Pacific Ocean one we've heard of which is like, I'm not sure the size of it, but it's like yeah, Well, one of them is about the size of Texas and it's just floating plastic that slowly disintegrating because of the sun breaking it down into like micro plastics.
Speaker 2:The animals eat them. A lot of animals, lots of animals die because they consume so much plastic that they think that they're full, but they're obviously malnourished. So there's a lot of those, is it? In the North Pacific? There's the islands where all the albatross live. I don't know if you've heard of that documentary albatross, but it's really subtle. There were some very powerful images that came out of there. There's just so many skeletons of birds on that island and all you can see in these images is the bone structure of the animal, where it's spine is or whatever, and then where it's stomach is, it's just full of bottle caps and lighters and it's just all it's got inside of the belly or so many other times. There's whales that have just washed up on a beach and everyone's like what's going on? This looks like a normal, healthy whale and then they open it stomach and its contents is like 50 plastic bags or whatever. It's absolutely devastating and, yeah, I have seen it in my own eyes.
Speaker 2:I went diving in M'Bool, which is one of the world's best dive sites in the world and don't get me wrong, M'Bool. Often M'Bool is very sippid down as the dive site, Absolutely pristine. This is in Borneo Very lucky to have gone there. But you leave from a place called Sipidan and in Sipidan is where all the dive schools are and you go and book your diving or whatever, and they're beautiful little huts over the ocean and literally as you're walking up the steps to get into the dive you look down and you can't see water for plastics, just plastic bottles, chip packets, everything, Like you can't even see the sea, it's just like a whole ocean of plastic and it's all just sort of washed in from the local areas.
Speaker 2:But even then I saw this I think they're called a lace monitor lizard floating on its back, upside down, dead, and I'm not sure I'm laughing. It was horrible. I'm laughing because I said to the guy like what's what's happened? And they were like, oh, I must have maybe hit his head on a fishing boat or something. But it literally had its face inside a plastic bottle, Like it had obviously put its head inside the plastic. What a container to eat something or whatever. And I died from that and it was just sort of floating there in amongst all this plastic and I was like, wow, what a, what a powerful image Like we're here going to dive in one of the world's best dive sites, Yet we can't literally get past.
Speaker 1:So what does some sea shepherd do in regards to this? Is it more just, I suppose, putting the imagery out there, just promoting the beach cleanups? But there's obviously going to be. You know, there's an impact we need to have with changing behavior, isn't there?
Speaker 2:Correct.
Speaker 2:With all of us, yeah absolutely, and it's from the top down, it's from government, it's from industry down, but it's also from the bottom most, from the power that we have, the way we spend our money, what we choose to procure like that is absolutely so powerful. And, yeah, I guess C-Shepard sits across, like all the different facets of activism in that space, whether it is going and picking up trash off the beach, which is what we encourage people to do. All the time we were on beach cleans all the time. I know over in Mexico, in Milagro, they found a bunch of seals over there with plastic trapped around their necks. Yeah, I've seen them go and physically capture those animals and remove the plastic.
Speaker 2:So there's some hands on that kind of stuff as well, but more on the less attractive side of things, getting in at the government level and really pushing for government to ban plastics in industry, to ban single use plastics in the, in general society. And so one of the things that we do when we're doing those beach cleans is we itemize everything that we've collected, which is super, not sexy at all. We've done the beach clean, which is kind of gross anyway. We then sit around and divide oh, here's a cigarette button, here's a plastic coffee bar, but whatever, whatever.
Speaker 2:But in doing that, we're collecting data which we input into a database called Tangaroa Blue. It's not C-Shepard's, they already had it set up but we will use our data to input into it. And then that information is what's been taken into government, into parliament and to lobby for change at that industry level. And so the Tangaroa Blue data was used to ban single use plastic bags in Victoria's. There was a successful story there. But, yeah, there's so much that needs to be done at that level. We need to be, you know, push it even at our personal level, obviously choosing things that are not single use plastics, but also voting for government parties that are going to actually prioritize this as initial. Sure, the Greens, you know. So. There's so many different ways that we can do that, but I think, as a collective, it's our obligation to move away from the convenience that we've created in this world, like we're just making the world convenient, haven't we?
Speaker 2:But yeah, it's a pain in the ass to be the reusable plastic. Reuse all bags to the supermarket or whatever.
Speaker 1:But it's not that hard. Is this how you became interested in it? Is this why you know the sustainability side of things? Obviously, you mentioned you're diving. You're clearly involved with the marine world.
Speaker 2:Definitely how it started was through the diving stuff. So I became a diver, however, many years ago and, yeah, did a lot of diving and did start to see a bit of like the plastic in the oceans and that kind of stuff. But it was a documentary that I watched called Cowspiracy that had this really one powerful line in it that just made me kind of go crap, I can't have to change anything.
Speaker 2:And then the guy at the end he says you can call yourself an environmentalist, but unless you change your habits and stop eating animal products, you're not an environmentalist. And I was like, oh okay, and that's when I started changing my dietary habit and started thinking about my plastic consumption. And, like you know, you can claim all these things and you can say I love the animals, I love the ocean and everything, but unless you actually directly change your habits, then you really not.
Speaker 1:there's no, this is what we've been talking about on this show as well. Episode nine, we're talking about textile waste with Lee May great episode, one of my favorites great guy, extraordinary background, and we ended up talking about textile waste. And how do we change this? And we basically concluded that it's all about behavioral change. We just have to change our behavior. So, instead of feeling Sydney Harbor annually with textile waste, we all have to change behavior to pull back on that.
Speaker 2:So what did you decide was the barrier to them?
Speaker 1:Well, I'm not too sure whether we decided what the barrier was. It was again. It was behavior. In like a perfect example is like. I think it was 15 to 25 year olds. Consider that a garment worn twice is old.
Speaker 2:Yeah exactly.
Speaker 1:I mean that is such bullshit. I mean where does that come from? Yeah, this is just a cultural world.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it comes from convenience culture like everything's disposable, which I think started out in like well, certainly with plastics and stuff start in the seventies, when plastics got popular and post war kind of. You know everyone's got money now why do the dishes just throw them in the bin? You know, like that kind of attitude like why make your life difficult? Just make it more convenient. But let's not think about like the actual implication of the fast fashion industry and globalization or consumption or whatever.
Speaker 2:I think for me like the biggest problem that I see, whether it's ocean activism or feminism or, you know, black Lives Matter or anything. I think it's like willful ignorance. It's not even people don't know the information. I think it's the people get the information and they go, oh yeah, but this doesn't really affect me, or I just don't really want to. I don't want to stop using single use coffee cups. You know what I mean. Like, yeah, I get what you're saying, but it's not very convenient. So I'm just going to get this pre-packaged food and put it in my kids lunchbox every single day, because I can't be bothered to cut something up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, choose the easy option, always. Right, it's convenience culture, like you said. Yeah, convenience culture.
Speaker 2:And so that's the thing that needs to change, and then so many things in the world will be better if people could just give more of a shit. But how do we, how do you maybe get?
Speaker 1:Look, you know, this is the purpose of doing this. Also, if we pass on one message like, and just make one person aware, that's cool, that's exactly right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's the purpose of this whole show, if you just pick one thing and do it differently. Yeah, yeah, yeah, if everybody did that I can imagine, could imagine the change you know, because I think people feel like they are.
Speaker 2:It's all a bit too above my head. I don't have that much power. What difference will it make? But the collective power of where you choose to spend your money is massive. Sure, I can imagine if everybody stopped going to Coles tomorrow, coles would fall on his ass Like that's a no brainer. But we have to. Just, I don't know like there has to be that push, and I think in Melbourne, like I can see that shift. I do feel like it's quite a greenie place. That's why I live here. You know you do have a lot more kind of sustainable clothing brands and vegan places and you know these plastic websites and things like that that can give you information. Or you know community gardens that you can go and buy local veggies and that kind of stuff. But you've got to remember that we're just a little bubble in like the whole of Australia.
Speaker 1:And you know, I think you know being on the coast there's more, you're a bit more immersed in the environment and people are much more aware. It's a big standout as a difference, that's for sure.
Speaker 2:Well, the point at which I felt like God, I need to get involved with this, as I went and did a tour of the Steve Irwin, which was one of the vessels that was docked down in Williamstown, and those guys on the boat had just come back from their campaign and they talked a little bit about it when I got on the boat and they showed some videos. But basically what happened was they found a vessel that was illegally fishing for tooth fish or it's down in Antarctica. It's like this very large fish that often gets resold as like Chile and sea bass or whatever, but it's flesh is we've got a very high percentage of oil so it's really hard to burn it. So it's like very well, you know, people want it, whatever. So they're fishing this tooth fish, which is super illegal.
Speaker 2:So each of us had found the vessel radio. The vessel was like you guys need to go to port. You're wanted by Interpol. This is an illegal, criminal vessel. You need to go. And so the two ships from Sea Shepherd which were there, the thunder just took off and one of the vessels chased the thunder and then the other vessel collected the nets they had in their water, so the Sam Simon, as was, at the time, pulled the nets in that this illegal fishing vessel had been using, and it was 72 kilometers of nets just drifting through the water catching 72 kilometers.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So if you look at some pictures of the Sam Simon, like it's absolutely, it's almost not unable to float, Like it's so weighed down with these nets, and they brought it back to port and destroyed it or whatever and saved any animals that they could. And then the other vessel that chased after the Bob Barker, chased after the thunder, chased it all the way from Antarctica up the coast of Africa I think it was like 110 days that they were chasing them for and were like we're not gonna stop chasing you, Like you need to go to port, you wanted. And eventually the criminal gang owners of their Spanish criminal group, they called a May Day. So they said their vessel was sinking and by international maritime law, if you call a May Day, then you have to go and assist the vessels. But what they did was they opened all the hatches and they waited until the vessel was almost half sunk anyway before they called it the last minute, this May Day, because they had so much illegal stuff on board. So where there's one illegal activity there's probably others. So who knows what else was going on there, right?
Speaker 2:And then we, as Sea Shepherd, had to take the crew of that illegal vessel on board our vessel to save their lives.
Speaker 2:All right, and that in itself exposed a whole part of the illegal fishing industry that I wasn't aware of, which is the human trafficking element.
Speaker 2:So on board a lot of these big industrial vessels they actually take people from Myanmar or Indonesia, take their passports and essentially keep them as slaves on board these vessels. So when the crew got off that vessel they were absolutely delighted to get away from whatever horrific conditions they've been kept in. You know, on board that vessel and Sea Shepherd was actually able it took like I think 11 hours for the Thunder to actually sink and Sea Shepherd took a small boat and actually boarded the vessel as it was sinking and managed to seize like laptops and evidence of the tooth fish in the freezers and things like take pictures. And the whole thing went to court. And then those guys got slung in jail, like the Spanish owners of that outfit. They got slung in jail and they got fined like I couldn't even remember, but like an awful lot of money for all of that illegal activity. And that was the moment that I was like holy shit, like this is a serious war that's happening.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:You know like this is not just a couple of people with a couple of lines catching fish. This is like mass destruction and humanitarian shit that's happening. You know these people that get trapped at sea for months and months and if you break your arm and you can't work, well, they'll just sling you over the side because you've not any papers anywhere and you're of no use to them. So you know, when you start to unpack, like the reality of real fishing, it's just such a head fryer. But I thought that was such an amazing campaign.
Speaker 1:So that was your inspiration.
Speaker 2:That was the point that I was like yeah, I think I really want to do something about it, yeah cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, amazing guys, amazing, oh my God. See, it's like a movie set. We don't hear this stuff, though we don't see it Exactly.
Speaker 2:More people should follow the C-Shop pages.
Speaker 1:Well, listen, I'm going to put all the details up on the show notes. People can follow that and lock into it, read about it and get involved. It's huge for all of us, massive. Yeah, that's it, and the other thing I think of is the education of this through schools, and that's what happens. That's it. Well, we do that.
Speaker 2:C-shop would go out into the schools and we do talks, Everything from like Kinders all the way up to university. Obviously we change the content, but yeah it does, it needs to be embedded into the curriculum, though You're right, like environmentalism needs to be pushed down the throats of the future generation, policy changes that's what needs to happen.
Speaker 1:But the behave will change Exactly.
Speaker 2:Exactly Target the kids.
Speaker 1:Can I just take you back a bit?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm really fascinated in you and you are so interesting in that you drive Just you as a person. But what you do with driving this 1,000 ton ship I find extraordinary.
Speaker 2:Well, I haven't yet got on that vessel, unfortunately. I'm going to be joining that one Right, so I can't tell you how that feels, but I should imagine it's fucking terrifying. But I'm sure there are lots of. I'm sure all the experience captains is walking apart. Now. I've been an officer on a 450 tonne vessel and I don't even know what the coast guard cut. A few of the coast guard cut us, and how did you get?
Speaker 1:into this? How did you get into the driving of this massive vessel? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So when I first joined Sea Shepherd I joined as a deck hand Because you did no skills in that position. They said, you know, you don't need qualifications. And I was like, ok, great, I just really want to get involved. And I did that for I think the first six campaigns I was a deck hand. But meanwhile one of the deckies on my very first campaign had said to me because I was loving it, you know I love being at sea, I love learning about everything. And she said to me well, if you want to continue your maritime stuff when you're not with Sea Shepherd because I could only do a few months a year Obviously it's not paid, so you have to have a job she said why don't you join the coast guard? Because the coast guard will keep your skills up while you're not with Sea Shepherd.
Speaker 2:So after that first campaign as deck hand I joined the Australian Volunteer Coast Guard and I started training with them and I just that's just on a weekends here in Melbourne we're out patrolling and whatever.
Speaker 2:And I gained quite a few qualifications like maritime qualifications with them. And then eventually I did so many maritime qualifications with them that I said to Sea Shepherd would you let me go in the bridge and they were like sure. So then I did a campaign as a second officer, so bottom of the pile in the bridge, like it's captain, first officer and then second officer, so not a lot of responsibility on my shoulders, but I learned more about navigation and using all of the instruments that we're using the bridge and actually driving around whatever. And then after that doing that for a little while, I went and got an official captain's license. So I took my 200 ton license last year and now got the tickets and we'll be getting bigger tickets later this year as well. So it just sort of was like a gentle escalation. But it was the Coast Guard really that got me into the bridge, otherwise I would have just dated the deck crew in Sea Shepherd.
Speaker 1:But yeah, there's a lot of study involved in that, though, too, obviously.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Alongside the experience.
Speaker 2:For sure yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, but I guess it's a hobby that's sort of almost on the brink of becoming a career. But, it's definitely something that I'm super passionate about, and so it's just, I don't know when you're, I suppose, when you're passionate about it, what do they say? Choose a job you love, you'll never work a day in your life.
Speaker 1:Well, at least I hope you just don't get into some volatile situation. But you don't have military backup, because it sounds like it's like you know, so full on, like a movie in some of these situations that you get yourself into?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it can be, but you know, there's a lot of things out there that need to be highlighted or exposed. And have you got one Sorry.
Speaker 1:Sorry, I was just thinking, have you got one scenario that just stands out? Was like let's start with the best one that you feel that, yeah, we've had a massive impact on this or we've shut down all this illegal fishing. We've got one sort of best scenario that stands out or most enjoyable.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of them are like works in progress, I guess, so there's not like a real, like specific point. I suppose going back to Malargo this year was the first time that I've actually seen the Viquita Refuge almost empty, and so that for me was like a massive win. After years and years of battling with so many people trying to fish in that area, to go and see it almost completely quiet was like a huge wow.
Speaker 1:Is it a beautiful place?
Speaker 2:It is absolutely stunning, yeah, absolutely stunning, just surrounded by beautiful mountains and you know. And the density of wildlife. Do you know Jacques Cousteau? He's like the godfather of diving. Yeah, he called it the Aquarium of the World. There are so many animals, whales, millions of rays, dolphins every day, birds, sea birds, everything just incredible. And to hear this year, when they did the scientific study there where they tried to count the Viquitas although that's really hard to hear that that population has finally stabilized after 10 years of working in that area Like that was, I would say that's probably the biggest win that I felt.
Speaker 1:Sure.
Speaker 2:Malargo M-I-L-A-R-G-O. Perfect, thank you. Operation Malargo, yeah.
Speaker 1:If you had to give me a scenario which was probably the most heavy situation you've been in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I definitely started out because it was my birthday, which always happens to be on the ships because I normally go away the first three months of the year, but it was my actual birthday and we were getting attacked by the little poaching vessels that were trying to get rid of us in the area and they were throwing Molotovs and whatever out that vessel.
Speaker 1:In Malargo.
Speaker 2:In Malargo, yeah, in Mexico, yeah. So we're getting surrounded. There's probably like 30 of these little skiffs surrounding us. They throw things at us, they zoom at us and try and put us off. And we'd prepared for this, and so I had a bulletproof vest on and a bulletproof helmet and we'd done all the drills and then suddenly I'm there on the bridge wing with like a fire hose in my hand trying to fend off the vessel, just because we don't have, obviously, actual guns. As Seisha put, this is before we had military on board Just using a fire hose and pumping seawall around them, you know, just hoping that if they do shoot, that it goes, you know, not on my bare legs Well, I was just wearing shorts, you know. I'm like how much is this vest going to save my life? I don't know. But anyway, they didn't show us on that occasion. That was good. But I definitely remember thinking like, oh, this is a curious choice for my life, kind of like a sitting duck. But yeah, that was pretty hairy, that's probably the most.
Speaker 1:So these are the things that we just just don't see enough of them. We don't see enough of that volatility that you know you're putting that situation, which that will make people aware, that's for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's so interesting and I love it. I really enjoyed reading about it on the C Shepherd website, which I'll put all the all the details up on the show notes and the places you'd spoken about and the data and the documentaries and all that sort of thing. But on the C Shepherd website, for anyone listening, it's beautiful pages of imagery but it goes into quite a bit of detail of all the campaigns you've done and what you stand for. You know marine wildlife, environment and then the debris and you have just been amazing to speak to and super interesting but unbelievably provocative in thinking about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, good, oh, thank God. Are we going to change stuff? Yeah, how do we?
Speaker 1:I mean, if we can pass on that you know, that message of just thinking differently.
Speaker 2:Exactly and obviously that's the theme for your podcast. It's just about changing mindsets, and and and to do that, you need to give them the right motivations, and it's about finding what that is. So if it's some like really emotive imagery of whales getting caught in by catch or something you betcha will be putting it out there. We're talking those heart strings to try and get people to think about it.
Speaker 1:So when do you leave for the next campaign?
Speaker 2:I'm leaving in March.
Speaker 1:And that is to go where.
Speaker 2:We're going to be going to ship tours of Australia. So we've got three weeks so we'll be in Hobart, melbourne, sydney and Gold Coast and we'll be open for the day so people can come down take a tour of that vessel I was telling you about by the merchandise here, about our campaigns and stuff, and then we'll be announcing what the campaign will be around that time.
Speaker 1:Okay, can we find that on the website as well?
Speaker 2:Dates when it gets released it'll be on the website In places yet beautiful, okay. Oh, the information is on the website already.
Speaker 1:Okay, so people can get a little bit closer.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Meet, you Come down and meet me. I'll take you on a tour of the ship, for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's okay. Yeah, absolutely, I'm coming down, for sure I love this. You be careful out there with the fire hose, I will I will.
Speaker 2:I'll wear my bulletproof jacket and I'll be very safe.
Speaker 1:Make sure you've got the military backup. Yeah, sounds like a movie set.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's outrageous. Hey, thanks so much for coming on, champion Within. I was really super keen to speak to you. As you know, I really did I thought you were so much fun, yeah, pleasure, pleasure, hooking up with you too always.
Speaker 2:No thank you.
Speaker 1:We'll speak soon.
Speaker 2:All right, we take it.
Speaker 1:Thank you Bye, bye. Check out the Sea Shepherd website, seashepardorg, for more information and short videos of the missions undertaken. A great example is the distant waters film on the Sea Shepherd website. Sea Shepherd is also involved with Tangaro Blue Foundation, which is an Australian-wide not-for-profit organization dedicated to the removal and prevention of marine debris, one of the major environmental issues worldwide. Again, the Malagro mission that Kate has been involved and discusses can be seen in Sea of Shadows 2019 documentary. The link is in the show notes. Make sure you have a look. It's amazing viewing. Check the show notes for all links and don't forget to look up seashepardorg. You can follow and support this show too. And thanks again for listening.
