Ep.22 Cathy Freeman: More Than the Athlete...Beyond the Finish Line

When the stadium's roar subsides and the running shoes are set aside, what truths emerge from the silence? Cathy Freeman graces us with her presence to discuss this transition, sharing the intimate details of a life rich with growth, authenticity, and the profound connections that define us. Our conversation with the Olympic icon goes beyond her storied athletic career, revealing the significant friendships that seem to defy time and her passion for the raw energy of Rage Against the Machine.

Running barefoot isn't just a childhood memory for Cathy; it's a metaphor for the authenticity and grounding that have become cornerstones of her life after sport. In this heart-to-heart, we explore the importance of maintaining one's composure amidst the non-stop pressure of high performance, the influence of indigenous roots, and how parenthood has shaped our personal philosophies. Weaving together the simplicity of physical cues and the complexity of being a role model, Cathy's insights offer a compelling narrative on the power of staying true to oneself.

Gratitude and resilience carry us through the toughest of times, and this episode is a testament to their strength. We delve into the joy that children bring and the lightness we must cling to as life presents its hurdles. Cathy reflects on the deep ties to her heritage, the solace found in prayer and meditation, and the art of adapting with grace. This conversation stands as a reminder of the incredible fortitude within us all and the choices we make in the quest for happiness and fulfillment. Join us for this inspiring journey through the profound transformations of an Olympic legend.

@the_championwithin
@jasonagosta
jason@ja-podiatry.com
@tommorello@rageagainstthemachine
@athleticsaustralia
@wardlaw_chris

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:06

Hi there and welcome back to the Champion Within Show, where we speak with fascinating people with inspiring stories, and everyone has a story. I'm Jason Agosta and recently I spoke with Kathy Freeman, and every time we meet and catch up, we have always had the most interesting, deep and inspiring conversations. This chat is no different and we touch on a few things that we've never discussed previously. Most people know Catherine as the athlete and her iconic 2000 Sydney Olympic performance, a figure of Australian sport and icon of Olympic success. But Catherine has always been the considerate, deep, interesting person which is as I've known her. Thanks for tuning in. I hope you enjoy this episode. Kath Freeman, more than an athlete and you already know this about me is that I am just fascinated with people's stories and who people are, and I'm still really passionate about people and that's why it works unreal.

Speaker 2 1:21

I get a pan energy mate.

Speaker 1 1:24

But I was just more like you know what. I think I might do this and just see where it goes, and people are really interesting to speak to about lots of different things. I really hope that and I was saying this to Chris a while back that if we can just pass on even one thing, whether we pass anything or not, it's another thing, but if we pass on one message from one person to here, that's unreal.

Speaker 2 1:52

I agree, I totally agree. Oh my gosh, it's even if, like I mean, inevitably the unexpected will occur.

Speaker 1 2:02

Who knows yeah.

Speaker 2 2:04

And the expected will occur. But somewhere in there there could be a little bit of a lovely pearl of who knows what.

Speaker 1 2:11

Yeah, and the thing with you is why I touch base with you is because you and I have had many, many very deep conversations, and I know that a couple of times I said, oh my God, imagine if there was some young person listening to this or anyone listening to this, I'd be going oh, this is so good. I just love those combos with you.

Speaker 2 2:39

I think sometimes it feels like you and I met in a past life, somewhere in a change, or maybe somewhere in another time, I don't know. It's kind of I feel like we've known each other before.

Speaker 1 2:52

Well, it's been a long time, isn't it?

Speaker 2 2:55

Yeah, it has been a while. It has been a while and one of my favorite things in this in life is when people don't change. But I love them and people in essence don't change.

Speaker 1 3:06

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I got you.

Speaker 2 3:08

Yeah, it's just it's. It's nice safe space, you know.

Speaker 1 3:13

Yes, Now are you still into Tom Morello and Rage Against the Machine?

Speaker 2 3:17

I always, always will be oh yes, music, oh my gosh.

Speaker 1 3:25

I love the fact you're into Rage Against the Machine. I love it.

Speaker 2 3:28

Oh my God, they're amazing. Tom Morello just seems like he's just a force to be reckoned with, that guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's just like oh my God, I'm unstoppable.

Speaker 1 3:38

Are you playing guitar?

Speaker 2 3:40

Oh, I'm sitting in my house waiting for me patiently like a true friend. But I have yeah, I definitely have this sort of fantasy going on where music music somewhere in my future. I'm pretty sure of it. I don't know.

Speaker 1 4:01

Yeah, cool.

Speaker 2 4:02

I think I'm looking forward to it after the age of 60.

Speaker 1 4:06

So Right, you're just preparing for that.

Speaker 2 4:09

It's very, very slyly. It's a world's longest warm-up.

Speaker 1 4:15

So while you've been a little bit slowed up with your injuries and post-op, on that. Yes, you haven't picked the guitar up.

Speaker 2 4:25

Oh, I might need to move it out of the way To make room for the wheelchair at one point.

Speaker 1 4:32

Oh, yeah, it's an interesting thing, isn't it? What you just touched on before about patients and that resolve of pushing through while an injury is so draining, oh my God.

Speaker 2 4:49

Yeah, jay, sorry to cut you off. I had a. I have a what I call. I call it my rehab mate, but she's so much more than that. I call it my rehab mate because that's where we kind of connected.

Speaker 1 5:00

Yeah.

Speaker 2 5:00

She's like just been a bit of an angel actually, and you know we were talking about this whole idea around inner turmoil. You know, when you slow down, you know, I don't know if there's some sort of degree of turmoil within us always, or if it just comes out because you are slowed down or you've got more time, or in your own head, yeah, the human condition becomes more interesting in some ways.

Speaker 1 5:30

The questions yeah, do you think that's because you're a little, you end up a little bit removed from your distractions, like we all have so much going on, and maybe, just like because we have to sit still, we're a bit immobilized or moving in efficiently. I wonder whether some of that stuff within us, as you mentioned, might come to the surface, because we're constantly running and distracted with other things.

Speaker 2 5:56

Yeah, you're right. You're right, my friend. I mean sitting with a couple of friends before and you know, just talking about how sometimes the wheels are spinning, you know those wheels are spinning and even though physically, you know it's like being in a car that's spinning in the dirt, you know sort of, but the clocks can still be. It's just moving so fast and so even that in itself is a distraction, and so it's like sort of this sort of you know, I wouldn't call it.

Speaker 2 6:30

it is a setback, obviously like any kind of injury, but I'm really sort of sensitive with language, especially when it comes to my own sort of storytelling.

Speaker 1 6:41

Yeah.

Speaker 2 6:44

Like it's really you know the challenges there and the opportunity and the gift is there and incredible life learnings.

Speaker 1 6:51

Yeah.

Speaker 2 6:52

You know, reveal themselves. It's really, it can be, it is, for me anyway, quite profound.

Speaker 1 6:57

Yeah, I think the thing is. It's like this massive change of pace, isn't it? Yes and I think what it does when we have an issue that slows us up and almost gets you back to realizing that, oh my God, I do have to pace myself better for health, for longevity, and for the people around me to maybe see who I am or for me to be, you know, of benefit to them.

Speaker 2 7:25

Authentic yes, and being authentic is a gift in there as well, jace, because there's no energy or the, you know the having to sort of put it on, and it's this huge depletion, you know fear of depletion, complete depletion of energy and spirit. So, simplicity is an undegotiable.

Speaker 1 7:53

Exactly. Yeah, someone said to me recently because I, you know, don't work as much. They said what you're doing and put it into literal terms very simply, and I hadn't realized this. And another older practitioner who works upstairs for me said to me what you're doing is creating longevity. And I hadn't thought about it like that. I just thought I just needed to cool my jets a little bit and do other things. But he put it so perfectly labelled and I've been sort of thinking about that and I thought this is so important.

Speaker 2 8:31

And it's so important. Jason building longevity is, yeah, it's like you know, a mutual sort of mate, sort of colleague of ours, and I'll remain nameless because it's I think it's I'm getting ahead of myself, but he's releasing a book. He's bringing out a book encouraging Australians to consider living beyond 100. And you know, this whole may know who he is already, I don't know, but but it's interesting, it's just interesting. There's this whole uplift in people's lives about the whole notion of living for longer and not just living but living well.

Speaker 2 9:10

It's, and maybe it's just a reflection of the world we share. You know, people have got to find ways to evolve and and if you?

Speaker 1 9:22

think about it, even like from an athlete point of view, and then just what we're talking about now. You can't go full bore like a car flat out the whole time, which is what happens. On speaking to someone recently who's just like she was saying that every 15 minutes of every day is just locked down with something to do. I have to be somewhere or run around, and it's like you can't do this, you can't keep this going. Oh yeah, but I'm just in the trenches and I think one of the things about mastery is mastering yourself. Isn't it Of self control, composure and, you know, also being productive? Hmm, yeah, that pace. I think for me that that pacing yourself that term is becomes so, so important.

Speaker 2 10:09

Oh, jason, it's. You know that pace dictates what we see in through our eyes and through our hearts and what we hear through our ears, and how we interpret and how we absorb and and how we take it. And you know that, you know the kind of trans, the quality of transmission you know, and and what we do with that when that certain information comes into, comes upon us, and what we do with that information. And it's almost kind of disunder, being disunderable, when you sort of living at a pace. And you know, because life, you know there's sanctity around us, you know there's, you know there's there's wonderful gifts all around us If we only just stop still for a bit or slow down.

Maintaining Composure and Authenticity

Speaker 1 11:03

Yeah, I've got. I've got a youngster who's on turbo and he's very good at everything he touches. But my, my deal with him and hopefully this is, you know, pass on to others as well is it being on turbo? And we know this with ourselves, Is it? If you don't have a good composure or, you know, go back to pacing yourself. You do not have great clarity and your perception of what's on around you. That's my detail with him.

Speaker 1 11:38

Yes yes, take a deep breath, cool down. If you don't have a composure, you don't have clarity.

Speaker 2 11:44

Great point. Great point and I think it's self-awareness too. Like I know athletes, I've learned we have to be able to read our physical cues. When you know organs start going over time, like the heart races or the lips dry, or you know the sweating and the palms, or you know the legs are wobbly I've got to run to the toilet again but then you can still have the physical reactions. But it's that sort of consciousness and that deep awareness and you know behind, you know the observer in watching our bodies play out.

Speaker 2 12:23

You know it's interesting, it takes time, you know because we're so used to reacting, reacting, reacting, and we feel like we need a sense of belonging over there when in fact, no, it's within us.

Speaker 1 12:41

Have you worked this out yourself, that composure, or you have someone along the way who you've spoken to or just tapped you on the shoulder every so often?

Speaker 2 12:51

I attribute my, the way I manage things in terms of that composure piece especially. You know what people have seen in me in the public running live my husband might have seen more to the contrarian times, but that's another so another day. Hey, but certainly when it's all driven by love and from the heart and you know when things really matter, privately or publicly, it's, I think I mean I kind of. You know you're an athlete, jason, you spent time running a lot. You spent a lot of time on your own and as a barefoot. For me, as a 10-year-old, as a barefoot kid, running on the dirt in Northwest Queensland, I kind of that was my earliest, earliest interest, and there's a lot to be said about running barefoot too.

Speaker 1 13:53

I might add, Absolutely there is.

Speaker 2 13:55

And I kind of and maybe it's the culture, my Indigenousness within me as well that there's always been a wake within me, but that oneness with the Earth has always kept me grounded and kind of all my influences the way I wonder about things and contemplate. You know it's sort of like an active form of meditation. You know there's this whole sort of scientific curiosity around contemplative sciences now. So it's, you know there's a community growing all around that sort of consciousness sciences and part of that's meditative practices, traditional wisdoms, but for me as a kid it came about through running barefoot.

Speaker 1 14:47

Yeah, yeah, learning that resolve, you know, and being, I suppose, calm and composed and having that beautiful demeanour that you have. Do you think that's come from there? And you've learnt some along the way, though, as well?

Speaker 2 15:02

Oh, definitely a case of having it as part of my nature. Even Mum said I was quite a calm kid, quite a plastic kid, and chaos was sort of not sort of something. I wanted to be part of my inner world really and so intuitively and instinctively I kind of refined my own inner world to suit me and to be completely me.

Speaker 1 15:32

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Does that? You know what I mean? Absolutely.

Speaker 2 15:37

And you know, as we get younger, jason, it's easy to import words to these such feelings. As a kid it's a you know, and life in the busyness and you know it's hard to find the right words or the right sentiment because we're all living in it. It's a chaos. There's a lot of chaos around, so yeah, yeah, yeah and like See you haven't changed a bit either.

Speaker 1 16:01

Going back to what you said at the start. You have not changed. God help us. I love this.

Speaker 2 16:09

I love how we are. It's nice when you yeah, it's nice when people don't change. We haven't changed, jason, we're still no, just getting better though. Carrying on, I think so.

Speaker 1 16:21

Yeah.

Speaker 2 16:24

Of course.

Speaker 1 16:26

Are you telling? This is just across my mind. I don't think I've ever asked you this before. But do you know like over the years you know, we haven't seen much of you and you and I have caught up every so often. That's supposed to have happened, and maybe a bit like this yeah.

Speaker 1 16:42

And then it seems like you've just sort of got involved in different organizations or sort of coming out of yourself or into the public eye a little bit more. Has that sort of been a conscious sort of reckoning for you, or has it just sort of happened?

Speaker 2 16:58

Oh, great question. Parenthood certainly refines you a bit more, doesn't it Become more refined right? Yeah, in terms of your personal philosophies.

Speaker 1 17:10

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 17:12

And you know we care deeply about our children's futures. Yeah, we want to have a voice, we want to practice our voice and that's in alignment with who we actually are. You know, and that's what I call being. You know, trying to be a role model to our kids is, I'd say, is important. The most you know it's. You know it's important.

Speaker 1 17:37

But the best thing we can do, isn't it?

Speaker 2 17:40

I think it's the greatest gift we can be, and it is the greatest gift, again, give our children is to just be who we are, in the fullness of who we are. You know, and you know that connection to what they are, they inevitably are connected to is can be challenging and that's but it's. You know we're in there all together, aren't we?

Speaker 1 18:07

So is that why you've sort of got a little bit more involved with, I don't know, just organizations or speaking a bit more, or I don't? Know that's sort of pushed that a little bit.

Speaker 2 18:20

Yeah, I mean, I guess, I mean I, I mean I'm learning too. I'll never stop learning as well, and but certainly I'm am drawn and I'm lucky because I, I advise, because I still folks still give me reasons to be involved and I still feel appreciated. You know when, when I'm welcomed, you know into that company, or you know on their journey. So yeah, yeah. That's. That's an important point. But and then when I I think people can feel that you know, I am quite authentic.

Speaker 1 18:57

Yeah, Do you have you realized the impact that you can have on people?

Speaker 2 19:06

I don't think I ever fully will, jase. I mean I I talk to folks who you know, who tell me who I am, often excitedly and in a positive way. There are the others, you know, naysays as well. But no, but seriously, like I've, I've kind of go into it all. You know some 51 soon, so I've got to cop to it all a bit at some point and it would be irresponsible, you know yeah.

Speaker 1 19:45

Yeah, that's it. I think that I mean, if you think about what we gain from learning about ourselves, what you're talking about athletically, and you know that learning, result, how to resolve issues and coping with the scenarios that you're in and then growing from that is so important. And I think if we can't pass on or mentor people at some level I mean now in our fifties, I mean it seems to be like this it's great time of being contemporary, but also very, very experienced. I think a really cool thing, if we can.

Speaker 2 20:20

Yeah, I'll be honest, the contemporary part in terms of like technology I find quite daunting. I can never keep up with that pace, and I think you'd agree that it's often the children who are teaching us. Teaching us more.

Speaker 1 20:40

Yeah, I have it every day.

Speaker 2 20:42

Yes, yes, and it's a flip on that traditional model. Isn't it that we grew up with this kind?

Speaker 1 20:50

of thing yeah.

Speaker 2 20:53

And, you know, trying to hold your own as well and trying to gain the respect from your child or your children. Yeah, it's not for the faint hearted. You have to be quite strong within who you are. But I think, yeah, it's.

Speaker 1 21:12

I think they underestimate that how we are still. You know, we still have one foot in this world and even though it's their world of newness and tech stuff, as you said, I still think that, you know, we can probably relate a little better than what they think and have messages of depth better than what they think. Yeah, I think they are distracted more so Probably our business.

Speaker 1 21:40

I think they're incredibly distracted and don't have a depth of, I suppose, being in the moment and learning, which I think is a bit of an issue which we need to, you know, obviously help as much as we can if that makes sense.

Speaker 2 21:56

Yeah, no, it completely makes sense. I think we're swimming in the pool to get. We're all swimming in that. We're all on that side boat.

Speaker 1 22:03

Yeah.

Speaker 2 22:04

If we're trying to raise children today, you know, who are not quite that old, who had hit 18. Yeah, we're all in the same boat, I reckon. I mean, I acknowledge I can't do it on my own, so I often, you know, like yesterday I sat with a lovely young daughter of a friend of mine, you know, and she had a similar skill in upbringing to what Ruby's currently, to what my kids are going through, and I need to try and understand more through the eyes of another young person who's been through it fairly recently.

Speaker 2 22:43

Yeah okay, I can get a group on it. Try and get a footing on it.

Speaker 1 22:47

So yeah that's tough though, isn't it.

Speaker 2 22:50

Yeah, it's not even. It's tough to stay relative. Yes, yes, because friends are way more important than parents.

Speaker 1 22:59

Yeah, it seems like that, doesn't it.

Speaker 2 23:02

It seems like it yes, yeah.

Speaker 1 23:07

And what about you know? Obviously you're very recognisable and people know what you've done with yourself in the past. Are you constantly spoken to or asked about things? As far as you know other kids' sports and what people should do with themselves, you know, whether it's athletically or not. Do you sort of have a fair bit come in from other people?

Speaker 2 23:37

I've been like a couple of times to mentor athletes, which is lovely. I don't put myself out there as a coach, I just don't have the capacity to do that. I'm not really. I mean, I have been involved into the fold with NRL because that's what I grew up with, but this is all very you know, doing a favour for a friend, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know who's married to a lady.

Speaker 2 24:03

I'm working with you know, and it's all NRLs that one sport that I grew up with, the one sport that I grew up with I grew up with, you know and it's all NRLs that one sport that I grew up with, the Matilda's, was a huge honor. Being invited to be a part of their journey was really special.

Speaker 1 24:25

What was that? What did that involve?

Speaker 2 24:28

I and my family and friends. We went and spent a time sitting with them and just chatting and then we all died together. This was before the last. This was in Melbourne last year. So, yeah, and before the World Cup, on the yeah in that period, right before it's commenced.

Speaker 1 24:52

Yeah, yeah, Do you enjoy that speaking?

Speaker 2 24:56

I always get a little bit nervous. Like once I started, it's like it just feels like we're just a pack of girls. You know, we're just this pack of girls. We could be, you know, having it at someone's house, have a country or something. Like you know what I'm like. There's no formalities with this one, but no, I did enjoy it. I really enjoyed it.

Speaker 1 25:27

And on that note, I think you told me once before you're so not into sport. I'm not sure whether that is 100% or not, but are there other sports that fascinate you?

Speaker 2 25:39

You know what, if you sit me in front of, if you sit me in front of a sport, whether it's it could be grassroots right, it could be the best in the world. If you sit me in front of it, like like Jason, if you and I sit in front of a screen or you know a YouTube and watch footage, I've no doubt we'd have no shortage of conversations. No, exactly.

Understanding Sports and Self-Development

Speaker 2 26:01

And it could be. It could be, it could be chess, it could be, I mean, it could be archery, it could be darts, it could be sailing, because I think we're both really curious you know, yeah.

Speaker 1 26:16

I love that about how people handle themselves in different domains. Yeah, yeah, as I said, at the start of the year. That was sort of like what you know sort of fascinated me with doing this.

Speaker 2 26:26

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 26:27

You're right, though I mean, you sort of end up talking and picking things out, don't you? Whether you're into an activity or not?

Speaker 2 26:35

Yeah, exactly, go deep with it, like because at the start you know it still requires, you know that there are commonalities. It still requires that particular application mindset. You know preparation demeanour. You know you talked about composure, you know all of those.

Speaker 1 26:55

Yeah, yeah. So what I like about it is looking at the different activities and how people handle themselves in, especially when the pressure's on Tennis recently was classic you know, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 27:09

I mean, I was watching Eager at the Australian Open and you know she's world number one, but she sort of just lost herself a little bit. And after she says you know, for some reason I was so stressed at this tournament more than others and it came out on the court. It's quite an interesting thing. And then the next person who's so cool and calm barrows their way through the draw. I love that. I love that sort of you know, watching how people handle themselves.

Speaker 2 27:35

Oh, the drama.

Speaker 1 27:36

Yeah. So tell me, people are gonna want to know are you still into the athletics and still follow it?

Speaker 2 27:44

Oh, it's hard not to follow, especially when there's a, you know, when there's a spike in interest in the media. Well, though, can I just speak about someone who might be meeting soon talking about sports people I admire. He's not an AF, he's Bruce Dool, he's supposed to play for Colton. Oh, I think it was 11.

Speaker 1 28:12

Maybe it was oh it was, he was 11. Who do you bury? For I don't even follow the AF Earl. Oh well, then you can go oh no, it's weird, isn't it?

Speaker 2 28:24

I'm too.

Speaker 1 28:25

Italian. Well, I just got a little bit whitewashed with your whole AFL thing and I and I can I be honest with you, I was um.

Speaker 2 28:34

I don't know.

Speaker 1 28:38

I just never had never grabbed hold of me and I couldn't, rightly or wrongly, after being in, say, our scene and that aspiration of focusing on how far you can take yourself, I couldn't believe and I still can't believe how it seems so amateurish and so poorly managed, especially with the younger players. Oh, but say what you feel, and I have despised watching how the younger players are managed, both training and just how they coordinate them within a club, and I just couldn't believe. Just yeah, I mean, how amateurish it was.

Speaker 2 29:16

Fascinating. I find that absolutely fascinating because, um, yeah, I have similar views with some of the talent ID processes that occur in I won't say in any. I am quite critical, let's put it this way. So you and I have similar, I think, sentiments and depths of feelings, because we care and like. When you feel like the, you know, when you feel like there's a lack of, yeah, there's a like, there's, you know, there's like a vision, I think that can be quite offensive.

Speaker 1 29:54

Hey, totally yeah. So I'll give you a quick, quick overview. I walk into footy club and I run into one of the players and I said, oh my God, this, the vibe here, is incredibly different to what I've seen. And and this is Paul Barnard, actually at Esen, and he said to me if you look, we have this line of players here and they oversee the young guys, and we also have a two year program with the young guys in stepping up.

Speaker 1 30:21

They're loading in the gym, stepping up there, loading with their actual footy training and they need to play, they need to really show that they're improving and after two years they should have made the mark and, you know, been in the top 18. Or you know they're pushing on the door, they're slamming on the door to enter the, the main team. And he said if they're not well, they, they're usually delisted. And he said I can guarantee you, there's 10 or 12 guys here. Half of them will get found out as to. It's too hard for them, they can't bring themselves to a level that they need to, and so it just goes on. But we prepare them and we coach them along and we develop them as people, which is the really interesting part.

Speaker 1 31:14

Yeah, it sounds like teaching them how to handle themselves when they cross the white line. And then that all changed and I watched it change dramatically and how these young boys would come into AFL and be absolutely slammed and it was literally survival of fiest and I had learnt to despise that. So, on top of my lack of interest, it was very uninteresting and a little disturbing to me. Oh geez.

Speaker 1 31:42

Because these people would come and see me for problems and I was like you know you're 18, you shouldn't have it and have these fractures or whatever. And that's that's to answer your question. Well, I'm not into it. I sort of that sort of is a lack of inspiration.

Speaker 2 31:56

Oh, completely. Hey, look, I'm like that, I'm similar, I have similar views, I do, I really do. I haven't spent enough time, obviously, in either in AFL or NRL. I guess one of the reasons why they hold on to them I hold on to my the taboo still is maybe he, you know, there are some players who want to say or there are competitors or sport performers who hit the arena and they're not attached to any of that. You know they're not. Yeah, and it's interesting the flow between management and performer, because you have to have flow within you before you. Yeah, that should take priority really.

Speaker 1 32:42

And that's developing yourself, isn't it? Yeah?

Speaker 2 32:46

And people, I think, sometimes feel that they need a job in order to shape people and to influence people and to own the sense of ownership and overlay of the externals on that Individual performer, the real magic actually comes from within. If any people outside would just let you know, just let it be and let the natural instincts of the individual regardless of how young they are. See how beautiful you are, Catherine.

Speaker 1 33:18

You talk about that beautifully. Oh my God, here we go.

Speaker 2 33:24

But it's very much in line with what you just said. Jason, it's in line with what you just said.

Speaker 1 33:28

My friend, yeah, but what you said is quite deep and it's so important to recognise that, though within yourself and others have to be smart enough to recognise that. But you've got to, you know. Blossom yourself within and grow you, all the characteristics of you, in your sort of style, not in anyone else's. I've seen it. I've seen it, we've seen it.

Speaker 2 33:56

I've seen it all the time where young athletes lose themselves, they lose themselves, they lose touch with who they actually are, and it's like the light you can see the light gets dimmed down. It's really, and how can you understand why you find it disturbing?

Speaker 1 34:14

Yeah, I got back to what we said earlier about the distractions. I think the younger person you know they're worried about what spikes they've got, what colour they're wearing, what sponsor they're going to have or you know can.

Speaker 1 34:27

I earn any money out of this, or you know, whatever it is, and but then so that person doesn't develop themselves, can't see, can't look within, which is what you were talking about. The other part of it is the people externally the coaches, the managers and, holy shit, the parent. Sorry, I was putting it politely. They want you to be a certain way and behave a certain way and they forget about the depth within.

Speaker 2 35:01

Yeah.

Speaker 1 35:02

And I'd recently spoke to someone in the States who's a manager of different people and she said the best advice I can give is say we're talking about parenting in sports. She said the best thing is when a parent can realise that their involvement should be to facilitate the team around the athlete, get the team right and help with that, and that's it yeah. That's it, perfect, perfect, and it made complete sense, yeah.

Speaker 2 35:38

And you know what, if you don't encourage your kid to trust in their own instincts, then because we're not going to as parents, we're not going to be around forever. That's just the bottom line.

Speaker 2 35:47

You know kids will the parents the basic rule is they'll let live us, you know, yep, but you know whoever that person is is, yeah, wholeheartedly agree. Facilitate, you know, not actually blocking. Blocking, we can't. I don't think parents intend to create, I don't think they go out to upset the system, I think they just get. I think I mean, you know A little too absorbed. A little bit carried away.

Speaker 1 36:22

Yes, yeah, just need to take that step back. Yeah, that's a tough one, though, to speak to or try and change A really tough one. I mean, I've spoken to lots of people through. You know what I do during the days, you know and it takes a while, and if you win that over, that's a really, really big win.

Speaker 2 36:41

Yeah it's. I don't think it's. It's ongoing Like it's like it because, especially when they're young, you know as parents who are on edge, who are on guard, you know being hyper-villageant and making sure that our children are safe and well and you know making good decisions allowing. You know they've got to make mistakes. They've got to. You know cock it up, cock somethings up.

Speaker 1 37:10

Yeah, yeah, you know that's we all do.

Speaker 2 37:12

We all have to yeah. You know, we all have to. Yeah, didn't have. You know how do we learn and grow it?

Speaker 1 37:18

My, my words to some people have been like if you can't look within and develop within and, going back to you, know the mastery of handling yourself and grow that and learn that. What makes you think you can handle standing on the white line. Yeah, like exactly exactly no one's holding a hand at that point.

Speaker 2 37:40

Exactly, unfortunately. No, I don't want anyone holding my hand either.

Speaker 1 37:46

No no.

Speaker 2 37:48

And and and. But like you know, it's nice to have you know in the background. My family have always been there.

Speaker 1 37:58

Yeah.

Speaker 2 37:59

Like my brothers often say at the drop of a hat, like that's their vote, that's, that's, that's our thing. At the drop of a hat.

Speaker 1 38:05

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 38:07

And that's all I need to know. That's all I need tonight, and I'm you know, different needs, different rate of growth, personalities. You know capacity it's, it's, and the world is changing so fast. So, fast, you know, at times. At times are ahead of me. I know that for a fact.

Speaker 1 38:29

Yeah, yeah for sure, but how we handle ourselves. You know, at the centre of it all is us and how we handle ourselves.

Speaker 2 38:38

Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

Speaker 1 38:42

The other thing you just mentioned, talking about the people around you, is that I think over a period of time, for a long, long period of time, your team around you never changed. There was complete consistency there. I mean, I was fortunate enough to be part of that as well. Here we are still today, yeah.

Speaker 2 39:01

Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1 39:03

Oh, thank you for having me. I learn a lot from that, though, Because that was such a stable sort of platform obviously to to launch, from having that network or that core group of support around you.

Speaker 2 39:20

I mean, I mean, I mean, there was a little period of of that where change did occur.

Speaker 1 39:25

Yeah, I realise.

Trust, Unity, Discipline

Speaker 2 39:27

Yeah, but it? But in essence, yeah, it was pretty stable and pretty. You know consistent apps for sure, and that was definitely a choice on my part as well, and I think we all did, we all managed it really well. I think, yeah, through it all, I mean a lot of the reason why it did stay so strong has a lot to do with a man named Chris Wardlaw, who was who we both know.

Speaker 1 39:56

Yeah, Well, people can go back and listen to his episode on this show.

Speaker 2 40:00

Oh, yes, oh my gosh.

Speaker 1 40:03

Yeah, sorry, gaurn.

Speaker 2 40:06

Yeah, no, and so he certainly was part of central role in keeping it all together. Because, athletes, we can't do things on our own. I don't care who you think you are, and trust is mutual. Trust is mutual I sit down with Chris and my coach forward, and the trust is always there.

Speaker 1 40:36

It's just always.

Speaker 2 40:38

And still to this day actually.

Speaker 1 40:41

Well, that's for a liability, isn't it? For all our people.

Speaker 2 40:45

That's it. But yeah, he's almost like liking him to the Bob Dylan of the track and field world of Australia.

Speaker 1 40:54

He'd like that I know I start calling Bob more. Hey, bob, yeah, exactly. Oh, that's great. So, and on that note, he and the people who haven't heard his episode this is Chris Wardlaw's episode on this show. He mentioned one thing which we have spoken a few times about, about goal displacement. You cannot have goal displacement go off and do one thing when you're trying to target. You know whatever you've done in the past or let's say, I've got to target some contest coming up you cannot place the goal, and he was so definite about that.

Speaker 2 41:35

It's a really powerful point actually, because the goal I never went off, the goal that I shared with my coach day to day.

Speaker 1 41:44

Yeah.

Speaker 2 41:44

Okay On his on the training program. Right, that's it. That's it. It's as simple as that. Yeah, the program and that's it. Okay, offer. I mean, if I felt like any modifications need to occur, I'd have a conversation with thought.

Speaker 1 42:01

Yeah.

Speaker 2 42:02

And and we, yeah, we'd work it out together. You know, as a team We've, we, in fact, we never had one argument in the whole time we were together.

Speaker 1 42:13

Yeah, okay.

Speaker 2 42:15

Such, it was such a simple relationship. Simple, simple, strong, yeah, yeah, just based on complete respect, complete.

Speaker 1 42:27

Everyone knows where they stood, yeah.

Speaker 2 42:28

Yeah, absolutely Everybody, and we all had a job to do and we all were on the same. We're all wanting the same thing, which? Is actually one of the loveliest things ever.

Speaker 1 42:39

Yeah, okay.

Speaker 2 42:41

When that that sort of unified, you know, the unity, the unified, it's almost like. It's almost like a unified consciousness, sure.

Speaker 1 42:52

Yeah.

Speaker 2 42:53

Gravitational pool, that sort of held us together.

Speaker 1 42:56

But there's a discipline in that, though, isn't there. There's a discipline from you, but also everyone around you, to be, you know, on the same sort of track.

Speaker 2 43:07

We're all on it together.

Speaker 1 43:08

Constantly, and that's not just weeks and months.

Speaker 2 43:12

It's.

Speaker 1 43:13

We're talking years, years and even now, as we're talking about personal development now, at our age. There's discipline with that.

Speaker 2 43:20

Oh, it's a little bit different.

Speaker 1 43:22

You know, keep growing things like that.

Speaker 2 43:24

Yeah and um, but does it start with um like? Even as a kid I remember having loads and loads of conversations um with my mother and you know she was quite a spiritual woman. Still is. And we'd you know there'd be, we'd go to places. I guess you could call them prayer meetings or church gatherings or whatever. That's just words I'm going to use to just you know the story.

Speaker 2 43:49

But, um, and we'd talk about that. You know and and and and discuss and explore and listen to people's. You know meanings of, you know risk, you know there's these beautiful virtues around, respect and respect was always big actually. So what does love mean? Yeah, okay.

Speaker 1 44:09

Yeah.

Speaker 2 44:11

This loves. You know, respect is a form of love.

Speaker 1 44:13

Yeah.

Speaker 2 44:15

And, and you know kindness to one another and humanity and you know these sort of big things in the mind of a, of a small bear for bush kid. But it was, you know, it was it occurred. You know my mother and my family would be hanging out with this. You know, with these. You know refugees from, you know Iran and you know who were banished from their country because of their religious beliefs. And my mom happened to share the same beliefs. And here I am, yeah.

Speaker 1 44:49

Yeah.

Speaker 2 44:51

But that surely plays a part in in who you are, in who we all are.

Speaker 1 44:57

Yeah, well, I think what you're saying, that sounds like it's been so grounding and such a major part of you let's developing a spirit, if I can put that right. Yeah, sounds like it.

Speaker 2 45:08

Yeah, Like, like, like a what carries you through life, you know yeah.

Speaker 1 45:16

That's so cool. I think a lot of us miss that because the distractions we have around us, oh, and I think if you don't have that parental support, I think that is you're never going to track that down, or it's going to be much harder, at least anyway.

Speaker 2 45:29

Oh yeah, I love having, even at my age. I don't know if your parents are around, but you know, having mum at the end of the phone is just like sunshine sometimes yeah. She's like sunshine, or you know, she's just warms me up immediately.

Speaker 1 45:50

Yeah, yeah, you know you want that level of understanding.

Speaker 2 45:55

I think you all want that.

Speaker 1 45:56

Yeah.

Speaker 2 45:57

And and you know that's yeah, I heard in in a 007 movie that that orphans made the best spies or something, and it's an interesting thing to hear and think about and I wonder if it's because I don't have any real attachment, or or they've got nothing to lose. I don't know. Yeah, you know, but I don't know. I will never know what it's like to be an orphan, but obviously neither will you, and most of us don't will never know, thank goodness.

Speaker 1 46:32

Yeah.

Speaker 2 46:33

But that's anyway. I can sort of understand the solid the presence of my family is, to consider what it would be like not to have one, you know. But I surely, I surely wouldn't be who I am today.

Speaker 1 46:48

Jason, that family.

Speaker 2 46:50

Yeah, that's, norris, so yes.

Speaker 1 46:53

But that, as I said, that's obviously been a huge part of you and a huge platform and and a solid platform Grounding, grounding in the development of you. Yeah, so we have the Paris Olympics coming up, yes, If you follow the track a little bit.

Speaker 2 47:13

God, the women are amazing.

Speaker 1 47:14

The women's 400 is incredible. I just I think you and I have spoken about that. It's just like insane the depths. I love how it changes so much that that event changes all the time.

Speaker 2 47:27

But they're running more for 48s, it's just whoo.

Speaker 1 47:31

But what I wanted to ask you was there an event that you wished you had have done?

Speaker 2 47:36

800.

Speaker 1 47:38

I was going to say I think you would have made the most amazing 800 run.

Speaker 2 47:42

Like four sort of went for the. Someone suggested four hurdles, but I liked the fluidity of running without her.

Speaker 1 47:51

I like that freedom.

Speaker 2 47:54

I don't have to jump I, you know it's. I mean I respect the 400.

Reflections on Growth and Identity

Speaker 1 47:59

I had lots of fun. I was talking to your best mate of that and I said, oh my God, all these years I've watched you. All I wanted to do is see you run 800 years ago. It's a shame.

Speaker 2 48:10

I mean looking back, if I yeah, I didn't really have my head turned, screwed on properly when the Cinellin fix finished, cause I just I felt like I'd just come out of a. I just come out of some crazy.

Speaker 1 48:26

Vortex. Tell me what that was like, though Tell me what you mean by that.

Speaker 2 48:31

Oh well, I, I'm like I've had so much time to reflect, obviously. But look, I've had other folks tell me that, like you know, they sit and talk with me and they compare the person I am now to the person. And you, can, you get this, the person I am now to the person I am. I was back then and I I sort of you know, athletes don't need words, we just, we just let our performances do the speaking, you know, and so it took me a long time to understand that that you need to start using words without Catherine, you know, yeah okay, but it's interesting I've never, I've never seen you as anyone different, like along the, along the journey.

Speaker 1 49:11

I've never seen, I've never thought of you as like the Olympic title or holder. I've never thought of you like that.

Speaker 2 49:19

Yeah. I just, you're just you know, I know I feel that and that's, that's a loveliness of us.

Speaker 1 49:29

So it's interesting to hear that you you sort of sense that you were quite different and it was a whitewash afterwards, which I understandably, you know all the accolades that come with it. But so what do you reflect now?

Speaker 2 49:42

Oh, excuse me there are differences. I'm just a. I'm a lot more. I think I'm a lot more grateful these days, just a lot more grateful. Yeah, okay, yeah, I think when you're in it and pursuing something, you pursue something, you get it, you do, you do, you do become a little bit matter of fact about it and you know that's that. It's over with a bit clinical with it almost.

Speaker 1 50:11

Yeah.

Speaker 2 50:12

And now, even after all these years, and I and I feel, and I hear the reactions and other people who were there in the stadium that night and and people feel a genuine excuse me, a genuine sort of connection.

Speaker 1 50:27

Yeah.

Speaker 2 50:29

Not only that one night, but just to me.

Speaker 1 50:32

Sure yeah.

Speaker 2 50:34

And sometimes you can't separate the two. Yeah, and it's interesting. Yeah, and some people who have watched me over the years you know, because I like to forget that I've been been around for a while now. You know, being in the media from the age of 16.

Speaker 1 50:56

Yeah.

Speaker 2 50:58

And to now people have have felt like they've watched me, watched me go up, basically. So and I feel that when they provide their insights with me about my story and you know folks sets that, you know, straight after the Olympics were about five to seven years or so, it took me a while to sort of come up and look up at the horizon because obviously that, the post career, that that phase there where you come out of retirement but you know, and you come out of that peak Olympic Games For me, I look back and it was it I needed. I needed time to sort of sort of just sort of absorb everything.

Speaker 1 51:47

Just swallow the whole thing, yeah. Yeah, and I digest it and think about it, and Totally Contemplate who you were.

Speaker 2 51:54

Sorry.

Speaker 1 51:55

Did contemplate who you are as a person.

Speaker 2 51:57

Oh, yeah, I remember yeah.

Speaker 1 52:00

What you wanted.

Speaker 2 52:01

Yeah, absolutely Like I wanted to go abroad and waitress. So, after the Sydney Olympics, I wanted to all go away to the circus and become a player.

Speaker 1 52:09

So cool, we should have done that.

Speaker 2 52:12

Like.

Speaker 1 52:13

I just wanted, you know, Total removal.

Speaker 2 52:15

I want to title anon infinity.

Speaker 1 52:19

Yeah.

Speaker 2 52:20

And and I wanted norm. I wanted, I wanted just to be like everybody else.

Speaker 1 52:25

Yeah.

Speaker 2 52:27

And that was really hard.

Speaker 1 52:28

It was tough.

Speaker 2 52:30

Any of us have probably ever seen or ever heard. Yeah, it wasn't going to happen.

Speaker 1 52:33

Yeah.

Speaker 2 52:35

And, and, and, and. For a long time I, I didn't, I didn't like it. I felt quite, quite.

Speaker 1 52:42

We've never spoken about this before.

Speaker 2 52:43

No, jase, no, we haven't. So it's um, yeah, some major identity crisis going on like an existential crisis and, um, for for a while, cause I I don't think I've ever spoken about it myself before.

Speaker 1 53:03

Yeah, yeah. I think it's okay though, because I mean there's an acceptance that sure you go through different things, but we grow from them, don't we? Yes, a period of time, and that's what you, I think you're getting at. Yeah, it's tough, I mean.

Speaker 2 53:18

Yeah, yeah, I think it was um heady. It was very heady.

Speaker 1 53:22

Yeah.

Speaker 2 53:24

But people go through things they can't possibly be prepared for all the time, every day, you know. So I guess you know there's a there's a lovely sort of comfort in knowing that. Yeah, but I would, I guess you know. I think it's going to be so self-centered too.

Speaker 1 53:39

Yeah, what was the tough part of it? Like people wanting, wanting an autograph every five minutes or being asked to be here at some launch and do some media.

Speaker 2 53:50

I think I got frightened. Yeah, I got frightened by um well, first of all, as soon as I crossed the line, the it was at the top of madness. I don't know if that's the right word, but that feeling in the stadium that night was hysterical. Oh, I mean, I mean how you know, you know, it was like, it was like pretty hard to put into words. I don't know what exactly it was, but I felt it was certainly. It certainly wasn't prepared for it.

Speaker 1 54:31

Let's put it that way, yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, it looked like there was just this unbelievable relief on your face.

Speaker 2 54:39

I'm asking hysteria. Yeah.

Speaker 1 54:44

And then I'm sure also, it's almost impossible to understand how something like what you've done and other things that people do, other events harness people together so tightly and so intensely. I could watch that. In the stadium, but for fuck's sake, we're talking about not in the stadium. We're talking about like nationwide and beyond. Yeah, it's you can't fathom that. See on the track at that time, surely?

Speaker 2 55:16

Yeah, I didn't. I didn't. I surely got a sense for it as soon as I crossed the line in that blue. It just absolutely didn't more than just blow it, blow me away it's. I mean, I'm still working. The only way I can describe it is I can still feel the vibrations in my bones. I'm like thinking about it.

Speaker 1 55:35

I was going to say what does it feel like now to just talk about right now? Because it's like just I don't know, it's initiated something in me on this end here.

Speaker 2 55:43

Yeah, I can't explain right this second. Yeah.

Speaker 1 55:47

There you go yeah.

Speaker 2 55:48

Yeah, it's, it's just powerful. I know, I know, oh God, I know it's, it's. It was just one of those moments in time that I don't know if it was just for all Australians. I'd be interested to hear what others had to say, so I doubt it off, but yeah it is.

Speaker 1 56:13

Do you think now, after all these y'all honey, oh God.

Speaker 2 56:23

We're getting young, Jason. We're getting younger.

Speaker 1 56:27

Do you think that? What was he going to say to you? Sorry.

Speaker 2 56:32

No, that's okay.

Speaker 1 56:34

So after that it's obviously been at times a little bit troublesome and tough to work through and you just take a step back from everything. But the most amazing, beautiful thing is that you've grown and you have incredible perspective outside of what you did, who you were like, grown into who you are and you've never lost you. That's the most incredible, amazing and whatever adjective you want to put to it. I love it.

Speaker 2 57:10

Now that means a lot to me. Thank you, because, god, it's a true tragedy if some, if any, like I. Look back to that young kid who he left home for boarding school at the age of 14.

Speaker 1 57:22

Yeah.

Speaker 2 57:22

I mean, my advice would be just don't lose yourself, just for God's sakes, for goodness sakes.

Speaker 1 57:29

Yeah.

Speaker 2 57:30

Just stay authentic, stay real, stay you In it all, so in it all.

Speaker 1 57:38

Yeah, that's it.

Speaker 2 57:39

And let people play to your strengths.

Speaker 1 57:42

And that goes back to where we started with this was being a little bit slowed up with injury, and that doesn't it. It's just you've got you to fall back on and all those attributes you've developed.

Speaker 2 57:53

Yeah, thank you, it's so important yeah.

Speaker 1 57:58

It comes out in different ways and different times, doesn't it?

Speaker 2 58:01

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 58:02

Yes.

Speaker 2 58:02

Absolutely, absolutely. So I think yourself, you, you, me and I are the only people who matter the most, you know.

Speaker 1 58:18

I remember that one, absolutely. You got any messages to pass on to, I suppose, other people who may be listening, and whether they're in business or sport or whatever they're doing with themselves? Yeah, apart from keep hold of yourself. What would you say to someone who, okay, we're talking about the Olympic year, yes, we're six months after the Olympics. What would you say to a person who's aspiring to try and get on the team or is on the team already? What would you say in two minutes as far as how you need to handle yourself?

Speaker 2 58:54

Listen to the coach. Yeah, that'd be the first thing. Listen to the coach, yeah, oh well. And listen to your body, listen to you, listen to you, listen to yourself, listen to your coach, listen to yourself.

Speaker 1 59:06

Yeah.

Speaker 2 59:08

And everything will be all right, no matter what.

Speaker 1 59:11

Yeah.

Speaker 2 59:12

Yeah.

The Power of Gratitude and Resilience

Speaker 1 59:13

Yeah, that's what's happened to you. Everything's been okay At the end of the turmoil after Sydney. Everything's okay.

Speaker 2 59:19

Yeah, I'm still yeah, yeah, I mean, yeah, it's important to gratefulness. You know it's like gratitude, peace, jason.

Speaker 1 59:33

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 59:36

Every day there's. I know I sound a little bit romantic, but I feel that this is all of who I am Like. Gratefulness is like part of that same theme around happiness, Exactly, you know gotta be grateful and appreciative. I mean, I was always super, super, super protective of my, of my happiness, yeah. So kids do it really well, they know how to be happy and you know, let's not forget that, yeah that's true Exactly, so we need to maintain that for sure, oh absolutely, it's a fantastic message yeah.

Speaker 2 1:00:15

Oh, I think so. In fact, I know I say so.

Speaker 1 1:00:20

Yeah, I mean, actually, you just made me think of one last thing. When you say that protect your happiness and we were talking about discipline and not changing anything and just going through you know what was designed for you training-wise or whatever it might have been. Is there a time that? Not even a time. Do you think that you always took things with a little bit lighthearted approach, or do you think that that came later, with your discipline of training and how you built yourself?

Speaker 2 1:00:56

That's right. I've always felt casualness is sort of part of being relaxed, like physically relaxed, and casualness, and I don't know if this has more to do with my, the fact that my Indigenousness is part of nature, like we're part of the natural environment, or if it was a tropical mindset, going up in the tropics or in a small town sort of. You know, there's less sort of ambition, potentially the density of competition. And you know, like in the city, like here in Melbourne, for example, you only have to look at the school environment, particularly, you know private school environments it's hard, it's competitive, it's ambitious, whereas where I'm from it's a bit softer. You know we enjoy the beach a lot more because they're beautiful.

Speaker 2 1:02:00

Where I grew up was, with Sundays I spent time in the desert. It's softer and life was simpler in the 70s as well in the 80s. And also the genetic call that I've got you know it's my family. History is interesting. That plays a part in it. I'm sure of it. You know, if I would say, for example, and it you know, part of an immigrant family, I'm, predominantly I am, but they all mixed in with the indigenous population, hence me, yeah, like I've got Chinese, english and Syrian back. You know historic ancestors, so as well as indigenous. But, like if I'm just, you know the sort of the themes in my ancestor's story play a role, I'm sure of it.

Speaker 1 1:02:59

Yeah.

Speaker 2 1:03:00

I was dictated where I grew up and the people I looked up to and were under the influence of, and you know the type of people you know I got to sit and talk to and listen with, share conversations, with form to my. You know part of how I walk through life. But certainly as I got older and you know going to boarding school and being in a competitive boarding school where it was sort of like more attuned with mainstream Australia, competition, ambition drive, all of that, I was still always very aware of that impulse in me to remain true to you know, to make where I'm from and the community that I'm a part of and I always will be.

Speaker 2 1:03:57

And yeah, and like, for example, jayce, my grandmother's country is of the Cookie Yellenji people of Far North Queensland and it's part of my job, my responsibility, to ensure that my daughter feels connected to that same land and to that, to the people of the land up there.

Speaker 2 1:04:21

Because it's so important to me and to all of my family. But certainly I think sometimes it's a choice or an awareness. It doesn't matter what you're talking now here in Melbourne, us now, but certainly I think it's better for my health. How I manage stress, how I manage chaos, pressure is and it helps me refine, it makes me refine my choices, you know.

Speaker 1 1:05:05

Yeah, that's like what you're saying sort of fall back on those attributes of calmness and grounding which you gained from being young up north.

Speaker 2 1:05:13

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 1:05:16

That's what you're radiating now. Is that calmness and that grounding effect that background hat on you?

Speaker 2 1:05:22

Yeah, the one that is certainly sort of the simplicity of being in nature.

Speaker 1 1:05:28

Yes.

Speaker 2 1:05:29

Being in nature and having. Yeah, and there are certain cultures that are certainly more, especially when they're not part of the mainstream. They're just a sort of a laid back demeanor.

Speaker 1 1:05:43

Yeah, but that's clearly enabled you, without probably being too aware of it, maybe back in the day, of handling the situation you've been in. I mean, you might have practiced being a bit more composed and things like that, I assume, but you've had that fall back to calmness and being grounded.

Speaker 2 1:06:05

Yeah, well, certainly, like I, prayer has been a big part of my life since I was a little girl, and so prayer allows opportunity to go within and a bit like meditation and again going back to those virtues I were introduced to as a little girl as well. But certainly I've also got a knack for kind of conserving my own energy and being practical in matters. Yeah, like you know, control balls versus uncontrollable, choice of being happy versus unhappy oh, you know that sort of whole idea of being. You know what's it called when you have to make the most of that situation at the moment when changes occurred.

Speaker 2 1:07:00

Yeah, you know sort of fluid thinking and, you know, being adaptable.

Speaker 1 1:07:07

Yeah.

Speaker 2 1:07:08

And I think you know one of my favorite places by Bruce Lee be like water.

Speaker 1 1:07:12

Yeah, that's it.

Speaker 2 1:07:13

Sort of fly yeah.

Speaker 1 1:07:16

Well, as we said, you know, you sort of lose some of that sort of introspective a little bit, don't you, with the distractions.

Speaker 2 1:07:22

Yeah.

Speaker 1 1:07:22

Oh, without a doubt, I think that's you know. At the start of this I was talking about if people can get one thing out of. You know this episode, or you know others, or whatever. It seems like maybe what we're doing. We're talking about going like, stopping and having a good hard look and, as a young person, trying to find, I suppose, yourself within a little bit and growing up, and it seems like you have had the most unique sort of background compared to some of us, that sort of facilitated, that grounding which is, you know, it's extraordinary to hear.

Speaker 2 1:07:55

Yeah, yeah, and so different for most of us. Yeah, and it's, without a doubt, a big part of the choices. You know, the pattern of my life, the way my life's turned out is, has a lot to do with her choices earlier in my life. You know, to surround her and her children with positive, you know, with good people you know, people who are good influencers and very protective, kept our lifestyles very simple, very, very, very private person, quite guarded, but also, at the same time, very compassionate and warm.

Speaker 1 1:08:37

Yeah, Okay. Do you find that you have to if to make sure you bust out a little bit of the city? I certainly have you just got to go up north again, something like.

Speaker 2 1:08:52

You know, this conversation would be incomplete without that question, because it's you.

Speaker 1 1:08:58

Because we all have to bust out at some point.

Speaker 2 1:09:01

Oh look, I think it's interesting you say that.

Speaker 1 1:09:04

Like a deep longing, like I've just got to bust out.

Speaker 2 1:09:08

I've got to. I'm keen to walk. Nor, I mean, I've still got a slight limp with this entry. Yeah, I'm getting a lot better though, which is fabulous, Still got a lot of work ahead of me, but I think the thing I'm really is just walking in the sunshine, just walking, walking, walking all over the place. I don't care really where I am. Okay, I mean, I do have one condition, and then it's not raining and it's in the daylight, but only because I'm still anxious about foot placements.

Speaker 1 1:09:43

Okay, not being.

Speaker 2 1:09:44

And balance and probably Because you're doing point planter yes.

Speaker 1 1:09:47

But I've yeah.

Speaker 2 1:09:48

I'm sure you'll get there. I think you're right. It's just a patience game, isn't it? Yeah.

Speaker 1 1:09:56

And you've got all those attributes. You know that you're all that resolve to push through.

Speaker 2 1:10:00

Thank you.

Speaker 1 1:10:03

And pacing yourself. You know yeah.

Speaker 2 1:10:07

That's. That's certainly very important as well.

Speaker 1 1:10:10

Hey, I know it's your privilege to come on my show, but it's also my privilege to have you. You, I was going to finish with some smart it's totally my privilege. Your privilege.

Speaker 2 1:10:21

I don't know my privilege.

Speaker 1 1:10:25

And another wonderful deep chat again. And yes, it's just always, it's always amazing, it's always a joy. Yeah, beautiful, thank you so much. Thank you and the people will love to hear about you and what you're on about and your perspective of things. I really, really appreciate your time You're welcome. Yeah.

Speaker 2 1:10:46

You're welcome.

Speaker 1 1:10:47

Let's make sure we we do this face to face and catch up sometime soon.

Speaker 2 1:10:53

I look forward to that.

Speaker 1 1:10:54

Yeah, we'll make sure of it.

Speaker 2 1:10:58

Give my love to your loved ones.

Speaker 1 1:10:59

I will, and you too. Thank you, we'll speak soon. Thank you so much once again.

Speaker 2 1:11:04

You're welcome.

Speaker 1 1:11:05

Thank you.

Speaker 2 1:11:06

Bye, Chase See you soon.

Speaker 1 1:11:10

Thanks for tuning in and I hope you've enjoyed listening. There's a lot in that discussion Rage against a machine, parenthood, domina, composure, being authentic, developing self, family and connection to others, and it goes on. Kath Freeman Much, much more than the athlete, a beautiful, beautiful soul. Links and details are in the show notes where you can follow and support this show. Thanks for listening and I'll speak to you all again very, very soon. Thank you, bye.