The Champion Within
This is a series with fascinating and inspiring people, and what it takes to be the best you can at whatever your endeavours may be.
We will learn from others as to how they have handled themselves in their own pursuits, and so that we can apply to ourselves.
We’ll talk about the necessary support and how important it is, to have the best and appropriate systems around us, so that we can be the best possible. We’ll discuss aspects of ourselves that we can all develop.
This is a show with inspiring people, including musicians, artists, athletes, medical specialists, business entrepreneurs and more…in the pursuit of excellence.
I’m Jason Agosta, a health professional and former athlete, and I'm fascinated in people’s stories, my own involves developing certain attributes over time, but also things that were not done well or were significantly missing.
Join me on The Champion Within in discovering that everybody has a story, and everybody has a message.
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jason@ja-podiatry.com
The Champion Within
Ep.24 Tamsyn Lewis: Triple Olympian and Commentator, on Integrity and Patience in Development
Step into the world of elite sports with three-time Olympian Tamsyn Lewis, a figure of inspiration and a fountain of unapologetically bold perspectives on today's athletic landscape. Together, we navigate her journey from the track to the commentator's booth, where her passion for sports and dedication to a 'positively driven' ethos continue to captivate audiences. Tamsyn's candid discussion on integrity and the battle against doping, alongside her insights into the technological evolution of athletic gear, offer a unique peek into the challenges and triumphs of a professional athlete. Her narrative is a masterclass in blending the rigors of training with the serenity of personal time, inspiring listeners to find their own balance.
Youth sports lay an intricate foundation for long-term athletic success. Tamsyn and I reminisce on the early days of our sporting adventures and the invaluable influence of coaching philosophies that emphasize technique over intensity. The power of less-is-more resonates through our stories, with Tamsyn sharing how these formative years shaped her career. Sarah Jamieson, a fellow coach, echoes this sentiment, stressing the significance of restraint in training. We also celebrate the cherished connections forged through sports—bonds that last far beyond the finish line and into the realms of sports commentary and community engagement.
Rounding off our conversation, we turn our attention to the excitement brewing for the 2024 Paris Olympic Games. As Tamsyn prepares to bring her expertise to Channel 9's coverage team, we highlight the resilience and depth of Australian athletics and the pulse-quickening anticipation for the upcoming events. Our chat about running shoe trends and sensory perception peels back the layers on the influence of industry marketing, encouraging athletes to find the right fit for their unique stride. This episode is more than just a conversation; it's a source of motivation for sports aficionados and anyone who appreciates a tale of grit and elegance.
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@jasonagosta
Hi, there you're listening to the Champion Within Show, speaking with fascinating people with inspiring stories. I'm Jason Agosta, and recently I spoke with Tamsen Lewis, epitomising what this show is all about, and just so good to catch up with such a wonderful and inspiring personality. I've always loved Tamsen for not only what she has accomplished, but for speaking her mind, and although at times the media has taken things that have been said by Tamsen as controversial whether it was leading into the 2008 Beijing Olympics stating that not all athletes would be clean, or, more recently, regarding footwear in the athletic world she has not been wrong in speaking her mind. Tamsen Lewis is a three-time Olympian Sydney 2000, athens 2004 and Beijing 2008. The best Olympic results were in Sydney, where she placed ninth in the 800 metres and finished fifth in the 4x4 relay. In 2008, she won the world title in indoors in Valencia over the 800 metres and overall Tamsen has won 18 national titles.
Speaker 1:Tamsen Lewis began her media career with Melbourne on Radio and she's been a commentator around the globe for athletic championships and presented the athletics track events at the 216 Rio Olympics and the 221 Tokyo Olympics. She's been a beautiful personality around athletics here in Australia and I just love the way she calls stuff out. I caught up with Tamsen on a rare day off from her coaching and teaching role.
Speaker 2:You know what they told me? I had to take today off at work. Why? Because I'm meant to be working, point eight. And you know what I'm like if I do anything. I do it a million miles an hour and I'm like fully invested. So yeah, they just they said, got to take today off, but I'm still.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's good.
Speaker 2:Still, yeah, I'm at home with my dogs, so at least I'm at home.
Speaker 1:There's always something to do, though, if you're going to do it right anyway.
Speaker 2:Exactly, I don't like doing things not fully committed. I think it's do something, do it properly, right, do it well.
Speaker 1:This has been a strong characteristic of yours, obviously.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think Forever, I think I've been born like that. It's anything that you try out, you want to do well, which is probably a blessing and a curse, right? Because it can eat away at you if you think? That fear of failure has been probably a driver. It's changing that mindset around.
Speaker 1:Well, as long as you're in good control, that's the main thing, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah yeah, we've all got so much going on, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Just got to keep it all balanced and in control, yeah.
Speaker 2:I think it's always important to find new time, so no matter whenever you're really busy, you have to try and find that half an hour a day where it's just your time.
Speaker 1:Whatever it is your outlet is.
Speaker 2:you've got to make sure you find that time to do it. For me, it's walking the dogs, which is fitness and exercise, so yeah it combines nicely.
Speaker 1:Do you know? It's funny talking about this. We've spoken about this a lot, about how you can be so driven and get things done and you do things 100% and it's just like it's just us, it's just the way it is. But others around us will say and this is the bit we've spoken about in the past is that, oh my God, you're so full on or you're so obsessive, or whatever? And it's like what the fuck? You know what? This is how you get shit done Exactly and you do it well. It's actually like I just was thinking about this for a long time and the term I came up with was like this is positive drive. Oh, I like that you can bring in. Oh, you're so full on and obsessive, or whatever. Hang on a minute, I'm just positively driven.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I like that.
Speaker 1:And that's what makes sense.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because I think when you don't have as much to do, that thinking time gets me.
Speaker 1:That's the critical thinking time.
Speaker 2:I just don't like it.
Speaker 1:Why, why?
Speaker 2:tell me I don't know, because I like to have goals to hit and targets to hit. I like finishing a day knowing I've accomplished something and even if it's accomplished nothing in the sense of if you, said you've accomplished today and I just said, oh, I went for a run with my dogs. I got all the shopping done. I picked the kids up. I dropped them off at school.
Speaker 2:That's still ticking goals, so it doesn't matter how big the goal is. It used to be, you know, trying to tick off a session to be a little step closer to getting my Olympic goals or other goals, but now it's a different sort of goals that I just like to feel like I've done something.
Speaker 1:that's yeah, yeah, I get that in a day. That's so important though, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, hey. The one thing I think I'm speaking to is I have to say thank you for bringing athletics into my lounge room so beautifully and with all your passion. I just love you commentating and your track interviews, and anyone who watches athletics will know that that's what you do. Is that something you've always wanted to do or can see yourself doing back from back in the day?
Speaker 2:I think when you're a child you're so self-centered you're just thinking about anything that's in your world. You know, I see it with my kids now. Everything with kids is just what's in your world. But I think now that I look back, the point of difference for me was I love sports history. You know, I really from a young age. I remember the 84 Olympics and I would have only been six but my head, and that.
Speaker 1:How are?
Speaker 2:you, yeah, the images of, like you know, carl Lewis competing even in 88 Olympics. You know the horrific 100 meters with Ben Johnson and Flogio running down the track. You know Sebastian Co, daly Thompson in that to Calfron in 84. I just images like that really stuck in my head and I loved looking back in time at the history of sports, not just track and field, all sports.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I think for me, even though I was self-centered and driven for my own goals, I still was always aware of what other athletes were achieving and what was happening in the world of sport, and I found a passion for global sports really early yeah, okay, I was just coming together. Countries competing fascinated me, so I think it makes sense to me now. I love talking to athletes and driving drives them, and I'm not necessarily driven by the results that they achieve. Sometimes, to me, it's their backstory what got them to the start line, what makes them tick.
Speaker 1:Yeah, who are they?
Speaker 2:Because even though, and that's the beauty of sport, right. Everyone find themselves on a pitch, on a basketball court, on a starting line at the end of a long jump runway. But they've all had incredibly different backgrounds that have got them to that point. And I love those stories and I love it.
Speaker 1:That's what these whole shows about. I don't know if you've listened to it, but it's fascinating talking to fascinating people really, or anyone has just got.
Speaker 2:you know so many people got a story and it's so inspirational, interesting, Everyone has a story, every single person, even those people who sit there and go. My story is not that interesting. Everyone has a story, whether you've grown up in hard times or whether you've grown up in middle class or wealthy background. Everyone has a story, everyone has a journey and everyone's had good times, bad times.
Speaker 1:When you mentioned other sports, were there other sports that you participated in or would even have wanted to be involved in?
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely, you know, I think for being a female sports person, when I was younger I grew up with boys I was older brother that I just clung to all the time and his mates were always playing sports. So you know, when they were playing cricket at the front I joined in and then when they'd go inside I'd practice my bowling to make sure I hit the stumps and I was allowed to do an over of the bowling in backyard cricket. You know AFL footy, I'd kick the footy all the time.
Speaker 2:But, I think, because I have this passion for global sports, I probably would have done the sport my daughter does. She loves it soccer.
Speaker 2:I just think that you run and you can. You know you have to be fast down that wing, like. There's lots of things about soccer that I think are brilliant, and the team side of of it as well. But growing up I was fortunate. I see other sports where you have to specialize quite early with running. It was so natural to me that I was able to participate in most sports at school and so I have great memories of competing in, you know, softball for my house, in house sports and doing that for my school as well. I was lucky. You know volleyball, water polo, carnivals everything that was on offer I put my hands up to be involved in and I think that was I was really lucky to be able to do that because I didn't play that hard.
Speaker 2:As a junior I really held back and my coaches were my coach and my parents were really adamant that less is better when you're a teenager and I think that's why I had such a long career and I wasn't sick of that.
Speaker 1:It wasn't.
Speaker 2:it wasn't be able to end all for me. I had my childhood, I lived my teen years and I did play sport that was on offer at school as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, but they're the signs of being an athlete on turbo. They come out pretty early, don't they Got to do it all?
Speaker 2:Got to do it all have to do it all Exactly. But I think when you're really talented at one sport, it is really difficult to hold back and I just was so lucky that I had the parents and my first coach who'd coached at that elite level that just were really adamant to hold me back and work on technique with running first, before we could pump the kilometers and the workload in when I got to my legs.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was a really strong message in one of the previous shows I did with Sarah Jamison. Ah, jammo yeah such a strong theme of that episode about, you know, just coaching youngsters and focusing on technique and things like that. Yeah, pete, I love that Can.
Speaker 1:I just point you into that direction in a second. Can we just go back a little bit? What you just said Talking about sport and world sport and commentating, I have to ask you that one of the things that I've noticed with you being involved with the commentating in the media is that that has kept you so well connected to not just athletics but to people, the people side of things. Clearly that has been such a benefit or a spin-off.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I feel really fortunate to be able to, because you know, with sport I think you retire and that's the bit where you find athletes have that depressive sort of state where you so into something and then you have to relinquish it a little bit.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And you do find that that's where you spiral out of control a little bit, because you've lost your training routine and then you've also lost your connection to those people. I think, being able to stay within the world of working in it, I've had to hold on to my connection to the sport and the people that are in it, and that's my favorite bit about it, because so cool. Yeah, it's not just the friends that I've made within the country, in global, you know people from around the world.
Speaker 2:So last year I went to Hungary for the World Championships to work for World Athletics in the commentary team and you do. You keep bumping into those people that were such a big part of your childhood and you think it's like no time has gone past and it's wonderful. It is lovely, really lovely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that sort of radiates a fair bit. It does, it really does, and it's so good. You know that's part of the passion bit, isn't it? Yeah definitely you just mentioned about. I think you and I might have touched on this one. We spoke recently about less is more. As a teenager, yeah. And your role now that I mean that sort of dovetails perfectly with your role now, isn't it with coaching?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that I've got a different experience to Gemma and I've heard what Gemma said and because she had such bad injuries as a teenager, she's learned, she's lived a learned experience, Whereas for me I didn't have those injuries.
Speaker 2:I didn't have any real massive injuries when I was a teenager because I was held back so well, watching it all happen and see young girls make great grounds as teenagers and never go on with it in their 20s.
Speaker 2:I witnessed it all and so I realized how fortunate I was to have those people around me that held me back, and I also know that if you're a driven person, you will do whatever the people around you say. So I was very lucky. I didn't do much, not because I didn't want to I had busy fights with my mum and dad and the couple and I want to do this, I want to go to that world champ, so I want to aim for that, I want to train more but because I had really good people around me that held me back and were smarter than I possibly was at that point. That's why I had such a long career. So I genuinely think that's where I have to give back, because I was so lucky to have people around me that did the right thing by me, because they understood the growing bodies and not to put too much workload into them, and so I feel like that's something I need to give back.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, it's refreshing because you and I both know it's not how it is the majority of the time.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, because I think people don't understand. They see a super talent and they just they don't realize you've got to play the long game. They play the short game all the time because they want that quick goal, they want to see the name in star, like in light, straight away. But you really do have to play the long game in track and field. It's hard, absolutely it's difficult, especially when you do see a phenomenal talent. But if you are patient in sport you tend to reap the rewards for sure.
Speaker 1:You know my, you know my comeback is to some of the parents and the coaches who come in, because you know what I do clinically. Excuse me, have you ever tried to do as much as what junior is doing? Because you're training her like a 25 year old athlete and she's only 13 with two fractures. Have you ever tried to do as much as she's doing? Oh no, I couldn't do that and, by the way, she's not going to Paris either.
Speaker 2:No, I know that's so clever so frustrating.
Speaker 2:Try and walk in your child's footsteps. Can you really do that? And that, exhausted, exhausted. And you know, I have a daughter that loves so many sports. Right, she's got ball skills. She's like her dad, you know, who played cricket. So she's basketball, soccer, tennis, loves them, can't drop any. So then you have to do minimal training of each. You want to play a match of each, that's fine, but you have to do minimal training. And so, for example, last night was hot, basketball training was on, but she had soccer on Tuesday and then she had basketball Wednesday. So I just said no, no, you have to have that one off and you rest. You have to plan rest, because there's so many sports on offer these days for the kids and you just have to be really that parent that just pulls them out, holds them back when you feel it's needed.
Speaker 1:But one of the problems is the accolades, isn't it? The people parents and coaches see that junior is doing quite well and you know we've got to make every meet we can and try and win every title we can at a young age. But then there's the thought of, like you know, sponsorship and what we're wearing and being involved with the right coaching group, or there's all these spin-offs that people end up being more focused on rather than the development of you. Yeah, there's like more going on around us now than probably what there was when you and I were at it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely Because of social media as well, the kids have a really hands-on approach with how amazing athletes are and what they're doing, so I would have had no idea what a 400-meter runner was doing when I was a kid. No idea.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Wouldn't have even thought about my compared, liz, or people around the world, because you just don't have them right there in front of you. If you pick up a phone and you scroll through social media, yeah, that's it, you know, you see some young stars Jakob Inge Britson's one, for example fantastic middle distance athlete, and he has been one that's been able to train really hard as a junior and then go on with it. But then that's one out of them tipping over the operates that would do that work and break down.
Speaker 2:But people grab onto that because they can see it. It's readily accessible to see what he does for training and they think, well, that's what he did will emulate it. But you can't. You can't carbon copy anybody. And the same thing, because sometimes you take a thousand athletes, 999 breakdown, one makes it through. They're the story, right.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:It's all the press, but I do think it's so accessible to see what everyone around the world's doing. Athletes in their 20s that are trained a race, trained and hardened, and they see their results and they see what they do and they just try and it's an impatient thing again.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. It's funny you say it, talk about it, because I was looking at Anna Hall yeah, a haptathlete from the States and she's the most unbelievable athlete. Yeah, and you look at some of the weight sessions that she does. This is all through social media, yes, and I thought, oh my God, if I was trying to do what she was doing, then this is full on and imagine some young woman like targeting, trying to do what she is doing.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It'd be an outrageously huge load.
Speaker 2:It's kind of like athletes like Anna probably need a warning label. You know, do not try this at home, do not try this until you've built your body up and your strength, up until you're at this point. But they don't have warning labels.
Speaker 2:athletes, they need to. Because, you're true, if I wanted to be the next haptathlon champion, I would look at Anna Hall and see what she's doing. But that's taken her years to get to that point right, until her body is strong enough to do those weight sessions, to do those sessions on the track, to be able to train for seven events without breaking down. And every haptathlete still breaks down, even when, you know, is strong in the core and have done all the rehab and everything that they need to with their technique to try and mince those injuries. But they still break down because what they're asking of their body to do, the training for the seven events at a world class level, is just, it's not natural, it's hard. The human body's probably not meant to do all that training.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. One thing I know you spoke you and I spoken about is what's missing with athlete guidance, and probably the number one thing you and I could both think of is coaching, yes, and which is what you're involved in now, though, yeah. And obviously that must be quite difficult to sort of balance with all the different individuals you have to deal with.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no it's. I love coaching. Absolutely never thought I would want to coach, but I do love because I love technique. I love good technique. I've always loved mechanics because I can understand that if your foot placements right, you tend to then see the rest of your body come into alignment and and and your body's meant to land a certain way and then everything else flows well. When you watch an athlete run and win 100 meters, I prefer watching the one who does it with beautiful technique than the brute strength and just get there because they've got wonderful leg speed we have.
Speaker 2:But you had that, jammo had that natural ability, natural talent, but I still work on the technique.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the technique was natural to me with the leg stride. But you know what, when, when coaches tried to get me to do a little bit more work to get fitter because I didn't have the aerobic ability perhaps as some of the other talented 800. I would have the mindset of getting the session done but I would drop my technique. And so the main injury I did have was because of bad techniques. When I got tired doing 2200s and I'd reach and as soon as you start to reach and you sit down a little, bit.
Speaker 1:I was trying to be out tall.
Speaker 2:you're clawing right and you're having to drive and pull your head. You're having to drive and pull your hand string and so my upper hand string injury was pretty bad in 03 and 04. Most injuries can probably be fixed with good technique and good coaching.
Speaker 1:You're not wrong, the two things that bring people in. One is technique, the other one's training.
Speaker 2:And so, even though we have coaches, I think we have a shortage of great coaches.
Speaker 1:So poorly done, isn't it?
Speaker 2:So coaches who are willing to do that research and listen to others who perhaps have learnt what doesn't, and then just being adaptable. But it's a hard ask to be a coach because, especially in track and field, you don't get paid for it. It's got to be something that you love to do. And then you still with coaches. You still have to be really patient with your athletes, and then it's finding a coach that has all those capabilities. It's tough to find.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is. So it's interesting talking about that, isn't it about the training and technique. Are there things that you, if you look back on your career, are there one? Is there one or two things that you could say, yes, I should have done that better. I should have done that better that you would definitely pass on?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, definitely. I mean, I don't ever like to look back because I think you can't change the parts. You can only work on which direction you're heading.
Speaker 1:No, I better form your own opinion though.
Speaker 2:It does. It does you learn from your mistakes? And I actually I always say this to my kids too Don't worry, don't sweat the mistakes, because that's actually what helps you develop into a better person, right? Because if you made no mistakes then you wouldn't be keeping on learning. You know, I'm okay with the mistakes I've made and I think that if I tried to change too many of those mistakes in life, I wouldn't be where I'm at now and I'm really happy with where I'm at now. But in track and field, yeah for sure. I think when you're born with a lot of potential and a lot of talent, it's hard to not look back if you didn't succeed in the actual goal that you had. For me, the young age, I always wanted an Olympic gold medal.
Speaker 2:You know, I was lucky. I won a world indoor gold medal from hard work and In Spain.
Speaker 1:I think wasn't it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, in Valencia, and that was really special to me because it did take a lot of hard work. You know, you make your first team in 1994. And I won that in 2008.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know what I mean Like that's a lot of training and a lot of ups and downs. The main things I'd change was when I was a teenager diet. I got caught up in the world of how you're supposed to look and I listened and I should never have listened, because athletics is a wonderful sport. Good athletes come in all shapes and sizes, and so you have to make the best version of you, not the best version of somebody else that you're trying to strive to be.
Speaker 1:So what happened?
Speaker 2:I just didn't. I didn't feel my body the way that it was supposed to be and I got way too skinny. Way too skinny and I lost all my strength and it possibly meant that I changed my course of my career, because I was a striker and I ended up an 800-meter runner.
Speaker 1:At what age?
Speaker 2:Oh, first time was probably when I had I went on a camp to interstate with the rest of the Talon and Juniors around the country and I had coaches that would always say little things just about my build because I wasn't the typical. Oh no, wow. And so then I, even when I would be getting skin folds done and I'd be put with a distance runner, they'd assume that I'd have the more skin folds, but I was actually genetically quite lean, but just little comments that would be made. You'd listen, you're so impressed, especially if you're driven. And so about 14. And honestly, 14 to 19 probably had issues. I mean, there's times where I was amazing and there's times where I'd regress.
Speaker 1:So if I could change anything.
Speaker 2:I probably would wish that I had my mindset now where I look in the mirror and I'm proud of what I see reflected, Whereas back.
Speaker 1:Can I ask you just looking at you. Sorry to interrupt. Have you spoken about this much before?
Speaker 2:Not a lot, like not a lot.
Speaker 1:Because I'm guessing not.
Speaker 2:No, it's not something that I really, because I just don't look back, you know.
Speaker 1:But I'm very aware of things you can help people be aware, though.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that is true, that's a shit pathway to go down. Yeah, it is you lose your strength.
Speaker 1:You lost control for periods of time, then you got it back and you lose control again. This is all around us, especially in athletics. It's more than what we assume. I mean, this is all around us. And then you've got a coach poking you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but it's not just to lead athletes Like I'm ahead of sport at a school and it's not just to lead athletes, it's young people in general, teenagers, that just can't look in that mirror and be proud of what reflects back at them. And that breaks my heart Because, honestly, each of us have such strengths and such talents and I wish every youngster could just be proud of who they are. You know, and that for me was, even though I had a lot of people that thought, wow, you're one of the best athletes in the country, you've got so much success, you've got such a big future Even I couldn't look in the mirror and be proud of who.
Speaker 2:I was, and that makes me really sad, because the person I am today is super confident.
Speaker 1:Sure.
Speaker 2:Who I am and so yeah, but it's not just to lead athletes, it's so many young people and I think social media has just really magnified it, multiplied the issue 10.
Speaker 1:Because I was just going to say this ties back to the social media world, doesn't it? I remember coming back from overseas and Fernando Mamedi, who was a 10,000-meter world record holder from Portugal, was at the same event, and I came back and I was like, right, I really need to lose tons of weight and be like Mamedi. And I just completely just lost everything. Just I remember I think I might have been a uni walking around going. Oh my God, I feel so weak. How could I do that session tonight? And it was all because of that. It was that perception I need to be like him or her or whatever it is, and it's so wrong.
Speaker 2:Isn't it funny? Because I remember in a race in Madrid I think it was a World Cup I used to I looked up and the scoreboard and a friend of mine who was at the race knew what I was thinking, because I could see it and I thought, oh my goodness, I've got abs, because I always wanted to have those abs that stick out. You have the six pack and you have the V.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sarah, jamison, six pack.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I never had that, because it wasn't who I was. It wasn't why I was made up, but I could do a million sit-ups, so I was just as strong in the core. What did it matter how it looked on a screen? Yeah, that's so silly right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:It's just exactly what you just did.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Some have fixate on something and assume that that's how it's meant to be, because that's how they did it Silly.
Speaker 1:So this is the message to pass on, though, isn't it? For anyone listening who's a parent or coach, it's like they really have to have that broad view of everyone is different. Everyone's got their own strengths. I think that's what you passed on, yeah.
Speaker 2:And when my brother coached me I remember I was a bit heavy because I was coming off that hamstring injury and I said it to him because at that stage I was smart enough to know. Okay, as an 800 meter runner, I know that your power to weight ratio is important. And I said to him I have to lose weight, don't I? And he said to me if you eat well and do the training that I'm setting, your body will find where it's meant to be, and you know what Absolutely.
Speaker 2:That was the best thing to say. It was so amazing because it's true If I'm eating and I do the work wherever my body ends up, well, that's the best for me. That's how I meant to be.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And after that took a while till I got my body strong again, but then I went on to have the best years of my career. Yeah, I got into a tie line. I wish to answer your question, which was probably a little while ago. If I could change anything, I would have got to that point, I think, a lot earlier.
Speaker 1:A lot quicker. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but you'd obviously learnt that and yeah, that's great. Yeah, a lot of people will also say that you're someone who has been a little bit controversial amongst the scene of track and field, and I love that because that's passion. I don't see this controversy. I see it as passionate and well informed, which is not what people regard.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:No, and one of the things you were just talking about and was in regards to technique. I mean you just reminded me looking at you and talking to you about this little shit around us, about footwear, and you know this is my field and I know you've had a little bit to say about it and I don't think you're wrong in any way because there's so much to say about it and report. But it is one element of running which has been absolutely overcooked to the max. I've got to have the latest shoe, I've got to have the racing shoe that someone says wearing and the whole thing's just blown up. And I love that you've had a fair bit to say quite openly about it, because every time I see a young person run, they've always got the latest, thickest shoe on. It's just a disaster. Clinically. Has that always been something that you've sort of been? Have you been aware of that? Have you sort of thought about the things that you've said? That might be a little bit provocative.
Speaker 2:It's funny, it's the way I grew up. You know, I've never, I've never worried about what those who don't know me or those I don't respect think. So I don't read things and I don't actually hold anything. It doesn't upset me if somebody says what I'd said was silly or wrong, because unless it comes from the people who are in my inner circle that I respect, then you know. I'm just saying my opinion and you don't have to agree with it and I'm okay with you not.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, I was also.
Speaker 2:You know, I came up, I was brought up by parents that I was allowed to say what I thought. Yes, you could have a hearty discussion if you disagree with it, but it was never. You know, I was never told to shy away from saying my opinion. I was never told to just say what somebody else wanted me to say. So they like me Rather not be liked for being who I am than liked for trying to put someone else so for me.
Speaker 2:I'd like to think I'm an intelligent person and that I do have an opinion. I love to have a discussion with people about things that I have an opinion on, and one of them is the shoes. And I love running because the whole world can do it and it's so. It's such a wonderful thing when you can just go to Kenya or you can go anywhere in America, and it's about, you know, athletes coming together to compete. My biggest concern with the shoes is that I hope that it doesn't take away from that level playing field that we have. That's such a wonderful thing. When you look through the eras of track and field, it doesn't come about that young kids are lining up and they're able to spend a little bit more money than their parents have bought them the best shoes and they have a little bit more technology that makes their kid that little bit faster. That change results. As long as it doesn't change results, I'm okay with it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sure.
Speaker 2:I don't like how it's all of a sudden the sport that was so pure, where you had Zola Budd running around in barefoot and everybody had an ability to do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because it wasn't about how much money you had to buy the technical aspects of shoes or gear. I'm worried about that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm Freddie can tell that the shoes are changing the results. There's incredible athletes wearing these shoes running incredible times. That's fine, I think everybody agrees with that. But and technology does happen as we advance in the years, and I understand that as well we have better tracks than we had back in the day. But I don't think when we were back, you know so, when Jesse Owens was running, everyone was running in the. You know, it came down to who the better athlete was.
Speaker 1:Yeah, same shoes on Cindy.
Speaker 2:I don't want to see the shoes changing results.
Speaker 1:Yes, the differences.
Speaker 2:Records are going to be broken, like, and I think comparing across eras is, you know it's. It's something that's really difficult to do when you look at times and it's something that's really irrelevant, because if you say but was unreal, that's awesome, but Jesse Owens was still amazing as well. Yeah, and they're never going to race each other at their prime, so it's it doesn't really matter who won't run fast, faster, because they're both incredible athletes, yeah but, you don't want results to change because of what people are wearing.
Speaker 1:I think what you are getting at also, and I think what you're amazing with with your commentating, is that you bring this beautiful personality around athletics here in Australia for sure, there's no doubt, but the things that you've said what most people will be thinking or talking about in the lounge room.
Speaker 1:Yeah and that's what it is. But you're basing that on an Incredible athletic history which most people wouldn't have. Do you know, man? You're still in the circles, like in the depths of the, you know, the vortex of sport and media. So what you're saying is passionate. Yeah, well, I like to think it might be opinion opinionator, that's fine, but you've formed that on an incredible history of understanding and there's nothing wrong with that, and nine times out of ten, it usually is the fact that we say things that people are thinking.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean for me and I reckon that's a great thing.
Speaker 2:I like to think it comes from the right place too, because for me, I'm all about big teams and sending as many Australians on, and so we've got Aussies to cheer for in every event. It doesn't matter if our best Australian doesn't make a final. We need that person there to cheer for that somebody else can aspire to beat when they're back at the nationals the year after, like I just. There's lots of things in our sport that I'm passionate about, and most of it falls back to the fact that I just want to see as many Aussies competing our sport and depth, depth in track and field to keep rising and it to be one of the premier sports in our country.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's you. I don't be hard with the Matilda's, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Oh it is. But you know, what I love about soccer is that People were talking about who was fast and how they ran, of running in every sport, or most At least, and so I always feel like it's okay. It's okay if someone does little athletics or they did athletics at school and they're a fast hundred meter runner and then they branch off into another sport, they still have that passion. Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, they started, they did it, they, they understand it, they wait until that manu kid comes out.
Speaker 2:I'm like I think I've lost. I think I've lost both my kids to ball sports. But I'll keep trying.
Speaker 1:I'll find their way, I'm sure, so tell me what. What are the hardest things with the coaching that you do now? I mean, you're working at a school. Yeah there's obviously lots of youngsters there. What are the difficulties to deal with?
Speaker 2:I think with, with parents. Most parents, thank goodness, absolutely wonderful because they want their kids to be active and Painting, and so I think for me, the most difficult thing is seeing kids who aren't confident enough to participate.
Speaker 1:They have Okay.
Speaker 2:So it's that changing that mindset and making sure that their fear of failure not being scared to put yourself out in a tennis match and lose six love, because it's amazing that you're having a go at it and you're learning a new skill. Me that the thing that that's the toughest is getting numbers and depths. And and it's not necessarily about the ones who can do sport going really well, because I think that pathway exists and I think there's always going to be a pathway for the elite. For me, it's trying to get more people participating, and I work at a girls school making sure that the girls who aren't doing sport and perhaps would fall through the cracks because they're not seen as being the stars of the sports teams, it's making them participate.
Speaker 2:Okay into a run club, getting them to find some sort of activity that they love to do I don't mind which one it is, and it might be finding a new sport to put on the curriculum but just to have as many girls for the perhaps wouldn't do sport because there's so many people, I say, okay, we need to fill this athletics team. Can can you run? Oh, I can't run. Well, yes, you can. You just got that fear of failure that you're gonna lose, and that doesn't matter. It's not about the result, it's about being part of something bigger, being part of a team and enjoying it. And I think for me, when in a in a girls school with teenage girls I am, I always want to see them learn to love physical activity and.
Speaker 2:I take it as a win when I see them doing physical activity or a session that I've given them during during their schooling years after their finished school, and that they love it. They've found that passion for being physically active.
Speaker 1:It's inclusion, isn't it?
Speaker 2:It's so, and that's one of the biggest things.
Speaker 1:Like a sport is for everyone, is everyone at school and and there's obviously that you know there's we're talking about schools the balance with you know, academia, yeah, like us with work or whatever that balance is so crucial to trying, I Suppose, form that through the drug of sport but maintain that as they go into the later years. It's so important, mmm and see.
Speaker 2:That's where the parents sometimes sometimes come into it. You know you've got a carnival on and some parents won't let their kids out. All the kids are so intense with their academic studies that they won't miss a day of school because they're too worried. Effect their results. And you know that Sydney University did a study recently with four year olds to 21 year olds and they found that the Students that were physically active and doing sport had better academic results.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, almost complete sense, doesn't it?
Speaker 2:makes complete sense to you and I, but we've got to get it.
Speaker 1:Yes yeah, yes, and this is like another constant message We've had also is that you can't you can't try and flat out on turbo a hundred percent of the time, but you can't study on turbo a hundred percent either, or work or do anything. It's all about that balance.
Speaker 2:Time management. And if you get time management skills when you leave school, where everything sort of spoon fed to you when you've got to be what classroom, you'll be so much better leaving school because your time management we a lot better. But you know, I mean phones is another one that has really destroyed young people in terms of their time management, because the half hour they spend scrolling Media they could have gone for a walk or they could have done something you know physically active, you know Jog or played a team sport. They could find that time to join the badminton team or play volleyball. So there is capacity, there is time in the day to do everything, but it's just time management skills Sometimes need to be worked out and priorities need to be in the right order as well.
Speaker 1:Just keep the scrolling. Check out Anna Hall. Oh my god.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my, my t-shirt will definitely not will be on when I'm hanging out with Anna Hall. Works pretty hard, but she's a leap right.
Speaker 1:Absolutely One of. Yeah, like you said earlier, there's, there's. One of us isn't there? Yes, the people shouldn't follow. So the thing that resonates here is that you have, from your incredible history, this passion to pass on the messages and the coaching, and it seems like you're in the perfect place for that, both at a school. Yeah and you commentary.
Speaker 2:Yeah like.
Speaker 1:You have an amazing voice, but you've got the platforms.
Speaker 2:Well, I feel, you know, at the age of 45. It's taken a while, but I finally feel like I'm exactly where I'm meant to be.
Speaker 1:That's cool. It's interesting. Earlier on you said I didn't see yourself coaching in that, but now you've, you're obviously right in there, because you and you're getting off on passing on what you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and, like I said, it's not necessarily about coaching an elite athlete to success, it's just passing on little things and teaching. You know some, some child who just wants to learn how to run just a little bit better of a technique and they learn that, if I can see them love running.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I do. That's a win too, because I think it's a gift to be able to run and love it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I Tell me we're in an Olympic year. It's only like six months, well, probably less than six months away. Oh my god, are you gonna be on air in Paris?
Speaker 2:I am.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna be World Athletics.
Speaker 2:Nope, I'm working with Channel 9.
Speaker 1:Fantastic.
Speaker 2:Heading over there at the end of July and I'm gonna be there Track start watching the athletics and hopefully seeing a lot of Australians do very well, because our team is magnificent.
Speaker 1:Some of the standards just gone, nuts, hasn't it? Oh no.
Speaker 2:Oh good, and every single athlete that will represent us has such a great backstory and wonderful, wonderful team Like. I really, really love this Aussie team and I just think they're gonna do something so special and I hope that every single person in the living rooms around the country really get on board, get to know all of the team names and the athletes and their stories and follow them, not just at these Olympics but for the rest of the country.
Speaker 1:So interesting. Tell me in your event, if we actually we go back, let's touch on 400. I was saying this to Kath Frim a couple of weeks ago that I love the women's 400 because it just continually changes.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:These people just come in and out. And anyway, one of my favourite, mila Weibo. Yes, I think she's just an amazing athlete. I can't wait to see her in Paris. But how about the Australian women in the 815? Success breeds success, that's the old saying?
Speaker 2:It's so true, isn't it? Success breeds success.
Speaker 1:The jet is insane.
Speaker 2:What an incredible crop of middle distance runners we have from those that are starting their career out in Claudia Hollingsworth who's? Just talk about beautiful technicians. She makes it so easy, doesn't she? She's so strong for someone so young in the core and that's natural. I saw her run when she was just playing AFL footy and doing running for her school and naturally she has that beautiful, strong core as she runs across the ground technique, so she's running beautifully. And then you know Lyndon Hall at the other end of her career 32, 33.
Speaker 2:Technically as well. Abby Caldwell is just a talent as well, another good technician with a really smart racing brain, and our Australian record holder. She's brilliant as well. Katrina is it. She's fantastic, and we've been watching these races where Katrina hasn't even won yet.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:And she'll come back and she'll work it out. I think Katrina is so fascinating because she has so much self-doubt for someone who's so incredible, so incredible. Once she gets her racing legs and she gets her self-confidence back again, she'll be right there at the Olympic trials. And Ben Derry, 400-meter runner-step, morgan Mitchell's coming back into form. There's just so much depth in the women's 800 and 1500. The Olympic trials, these names that we're throwing out. Some of them are going to miss the Olympic team, but they're incredible athletes and deserve to be representing our country. So it's going to be fascinating those Olympic trials for Australia, and I think that the fact that we have so much depth is what's going to make them go so well in Paris.
Speaker 1:That's it. It's always the same. Yes, exactly Did you have that when you were coming through? You have to remind me. Were there many people at your level?
Speaker 2:No, I was so lucky leading into Sydney in 2000. Everyone wanted to be part of the track and field team, so everyone was gearing up, working really hard. The 400 meters really stood out because I think we had seven A-qualified athletes, which was the standard you had to get to make the team, and I think that was totally led by having Catherine Freeman in the country representing us. Everyone, to make the team, had to step up a level and you wanted to be part of that 4x400 squad with her.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:The 800 was really strong. The 800 had depth, but it fell away after about the third or fourth athlete and then after 2000,. It was incredibly hard because you had lost a lot of athletes. So it was nationals where it was pretty tough.
Speaker 1:Was that your best run at the Sydney Olympics in the 800? I think you were eighth or ninth.
Speaker 2:I was ninth. I missed that final by three 100ths of a second.
Speaker 1:Oh, really Okay, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:We don't look back. No, that's okay. It was heartbreaking. I found out I missed that final by the whole collective crowd just signed because I refused to watch the race, because I was in the first heat and it was first three, next two fastest Just coming out the other end stronger. It was a great race. I don't think I could have done anything differently.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:What do you do?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's it. Hands are tied up.
Speaker 2:I looked back at some of the results and it was in that final. That's a different story, but I couldn't have done anything different, so it's all right. But I think I probably ran my best race in the heat of Beijing Olympics, where I took it out, and I think I ran 159 something. So that's a good Olympics and I gave what I gave what I could. Just wasn't good enough.
Speaker 1:But on that, point of the comment you just made, without going there, is that other people have mentioned that they've, like you know you've lined up on the line in Beijing particularly. I think it all came out later on that these women had tested positive, and does that still linger? Does that sort of still leave some irritation there? You know what's the others who have said that that just like it's still a Missy Olympic Final and I know who I was racing against and sure, and we knew they were dived up, and it all came out later on, years later.
Speaker 2:I would have been in Sydney Olympic Final if you took out the drugs, the ones who came out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would have been in Sydney Olympic Final. It would have changed lots. But you can't look back. You can't be bitter. I've learned that from my parents. They had that whole outlook. Where they competed, they left it behind. You've got to move on. There's so much more living in your life to be had and being bitter isn't healthy for you. And you did nothing wrong. You don't look back Now. I actually said it leading into Beijing Olympics. I remember it now. I said that I left and right and I'll be on the start line with drug cheats and I got crucified for saying it.
Speaker 1:Well, Sarah said the same thing. She wasn't crucified, but she said the same thing. Well, it was her 15.
Speaker 2:Well, I said it before the Olympics, like before we ran, so in 2000,. As we were going into the village I said it and the press went nuts about me saying it because they thought it was bitter. But I'd say it again because it was true.
Speaker 1:It was true, yeah.
Speaker 2:But it wasn't fair that Jammo had to race against the Russians. That have all been their results and nulls now she had, you know, and she was running so well and she missed the semifinal there. And if she was in that semifinal, who knows? Because she loved the pace fast and yeah, I feel more upset for her. I feel absolutely heartbroken for Bronwyn Thompson in the long jump, you know, final. Those things upset me. I have kids. I looked them in the eyes. I sleep well at night.
Speaker 2:I might have hit everything I could and I treated it like it's a sport and you're trying to get the most out of yourself. And there are a lot of people who are disadvantaged by drug cheats, but you just can't let it define you, because otherwise they're still winning. Live your life.
Speaker 1:But the whole thing is you weren't wrong in saying that. I have no doubts I'm lining up against some of these people doing the wrong thing and it gets back to you doing the best you can.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And clearly what you're presenting here is that you're content that you did everything you could. There's nothing more you could have done, and that's like. You have to have that contentment.
Speaker 2:Well, I try my hardest and, at the end of the day, I did it for me and so it's for anyone else.
Speaker 1:People forget about that though, don't they with athletes, particularly on being solo. You forget that that's what it's about is being the best you can.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I got to represent my country and you know I had such wonderful memories, honestly. So I feel like I'm one of the fortunate ones. I represent my country at three Olympic games. I had a home Olympics. I got to run at the home of the Olympics, you know for in Athens.
Speaker 2:You know I won a World Indoor title so I got to stand on the podium on my own and hear the anthem. I'm one of the lucky ones, so I'm okay with it. But I do feel sorry for athletes that have missed out, like yeah, yeah, yeah. Long jump and and Jamo in in oh wait when she was running absolutely beautifully. I do, I feel for them. Yeah, all of all the athletes I've just mentioned have moved on and doing beautiful things in their life, you know anyway. So I feel like they won as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, hey, to finish off, I'm going to hit you with this. I think that the reason why people are running so much faster now, agree or disagree with me. I like it, but we were talking about technique earlier. Now, if you go back and look at running compared to more recent times, one of the reasons I think everyone is running so much faster is because of technique.
Speaker 1:And that is from 100 to the marathon. If you get the top three, top five competitors at all, that world-class level, they're all perfect and they have this efficiency and economy of movement. People aren't smart enough out there to coaching and that to realise that that's a common denominator. And so there's not three minutes in a shoe in the women's marathon. There is not three minutes. I think everyone's going to say to me maybe they might help a little bit, but not that much. The negatives of all those shoes no one speaks about and there's so many negatives and that's what I try to impart as far as injuries and poor economy. The technique is the big stand out. Look at Kip.
Speaker 1:Chogyi jogging on the spot because he looks so perfect. Look at the women's five and 10 from Budapest. Just look at the top three. They look like they're just so efficient and there's an economy there.
Speaker 2:I love listening to you talk about the shoes, because you have such. You know that's your background.
Speaker 1:That was to be the iceberg.
Speaker 2:But I would find that fascinating listening to you talk about the shoes and I've heard you talk a little bit about them because the things that are the negatives, like do you want more? I might not have thought about them, but I think when you say techniques improved, I think the depth of the field from the technique has improved. Everyone knows, but I still think there's like. So Tommy Smith in 1968 Olympics, 200 metres, phenomenal race he had. He ran beautifully off the ground, natural Jesse Owens natural technique.
Speaker 1:Lewis.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Carl Lewis, that beautiful.
Speaker 1:Goes on.
Speaker 2:There's so many wonderful, wonderful Merlene.
Speaker 1:Audie your mate, Seb Coe.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so they had it, but I think the depth fell away because people just, you know, they may not have had the time. They were working as well as doing that, whereas I agree there's a lot of coaches now who are focusing on technique to get those little thousands of a second and that improved, stopped those injuries, and I think the depth is so much closer where you're seeing races, where they're stacked. You know, there was a race overnight in 1500 metres where we had, I think, 11 athletes under 340, which is ridiculous in a 1500 metres. But all of them are fighting so hard to get these Olympic spots that they have to lift. And how do you lift? You have to work on those little things, you have to cross the T's and technique is a big one, and so I think you're right, I agree with you that.
Speaker 1:I think there's also that group, as you mentioned. The depth is huge and then one person runs a certain speed for the marathon or a certain time for a marathon or 10K, and it's like, oh OK, right, that's the pace, so I'm going to go out at that pace, yeah.
Speaker 2:Do you know?
Speaker 1:what I mean. So someone set the bar and that's the new pace to go out at and that's the new pace to run it. So we're all doing it as a technically efficient group.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And there we go. There's a record, there's, you know, 10 seconds, or whatever it is.
Speaker 2:Well, I can't talk in marathons, but I know in 800 metres if you were in a race where somebody ran faster, you tended to run fast because you just went with them. You did a six-point goal. Catch you at six-point. You just went out right. You got dragged through on the train. So yeah exactly. You do have to lift. You want to win and you want to be the best. If someone sets that target, then you have to work out how you can get there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, OK, here's some more shoe stuff. The thicker the shoe. You cannot feel the ground. So think about everyone. Everyone can understand this.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Run down the hallway in a normal pair of shoes and then put the thick soft shoes. You cannot feel the ground.
Speaker 1:No, it will stop so your sensory perception goes out the door. What that means is you hit passively, there's more impact, but because of the softness, you end up moving more and your muscular control is not activated quick enough. And that's why we have all these problems from Joe on the street who needs the $400 later shoe trying to emulate what he sees on social media. Do you know what I'm saying? Like nine out of 10 people are not strong enough to cope with it.
Speaker 2:OK, so are you seeing more injuries away from the feet because of it Like?
Speaker 1:not so much away from the ankle. Mostly it's just mostly ankle yeah Right, I can't afford it. Yeah, which is really interesting. But it's interesting watching people running them how soft and sloppy. So imagine you sort of running on the beach. That's harder and sort of softer and more inefficient than running on the fastest Mondo athletic track. Ok, yeah, no I know there's a difference there, I anyway. That's enough for clinical talk.
Speaker 2:Keeps you like. You don't run as tall because you can't feel it Like. I was exactly about feeling that you know the bulls ear feet and staying tall and having your toes up dorsiflex and feeling hips high off the ground. Sounds like I hated it.
Speaker 1:That's it Exactly. You got your honor. Ok, there's a coaching for your school this week.
Speaker 2:All right, kids, you're all running in the 90.
Speaker 1:That's enough for me. This is your episode, not mine.
Speaker 2:Do you know how fascinated I am listening to you talk about shoes?
Speaker 1:Because I'm so simple.
Speaker 2:No, because I'm so all about feeling when you run.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's what it is. It's a sensory perception.
Speaker 2:I know in my spikes, I know I could. So when I was a kid, most people go down and watch running and they'll be bored. I used to love the sound of the ground my dad and my brother would make and I'd be like I want to make that sound and I worked out that you make it by landing underneath yourself, having your toes up, and just that push.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 2:You can't feel that.
Speaker 1:You can't.
Speaker 2:No, because that's how I ran. I was all feeling.
Speaker 1:So this is my irritating thing about the sports industry the companies create these trends and they're funneled to the shoe store and the shoe store wants to be part of the shoe company and that's funneled from the shoe store to the consumer. They want to be part of the sports company. Then there's practitioners like me. Most want to be part of this sports company in the glossy sports scene. Some mostly nearly all of them do, but so they're funneled all that information.
Speaker 1:And then there's a sponsored athlete who doesn't get looked after very well at all, which really is one of my massive irritations. It just so irritates me that someone can be the face of a shoe company in this country and not even get paid. There's two, I know, from two different companies and I think it's a joke. So there's this vortex of marketing that's made out to be so wonderful from the shoe companies without giving back to the people who need it, to go to Paris or whatever, and the trends they create are just so wrong for the athlete. But, joe, on the street, nine out of 10 people need that shoe. They want to wear that shoe because someone else is wearing it, or someone who's big and strong and elite can handle wearing it, but the other nine out of 10 can't handle wearing it, and that's where we see all the problems. But isn't that silly.
Speaker 2:Like I mean, isn't I mean to every foot so different? Yes, if we shoe, I mean for me, what shoe I like to wear is very different to what shoe a competitor would wear. Or somebody who doesn't run wears Like that's just bizarre to want something. Now say it's human. You want what someone else has, exactly OK. So if I get keep Joe gay shoe, will I run to our marathon.
Speaker 1:No OK. As brilliant as you are, Tamza, I'm telling you now, honey, sorry, but no. Let me know, when you catch up with your mates from Beijing Olympics, I will be able to help you out.
Speaker 2:OK, yeah, no, but it's an interesting scene, isn't?
Speaker 1:it, especially in the Olympic year, where these things are pumped up so much and they're in our eyeballs every day. Ok, do you? Know for all these years that I've known you. I know we haven't crossed paths that much and spoken that much, but you've always been a super strong, beautiful, beautiful personality and you still radiate that now and I love you coming into my lounge and commentating. Thank you.
Speaker 2:Well, we did meet a while ago, I think. I walked in Yep and you haven't been able to get rid of me.
Speaker 1:Since, there's the yeah, that don't want to. Hey, thanks so much for joining me. Thank you for having me. We look forward to listening and watching you and listening to you in Paris too, with your expertise and beautiful, beautiful commentary. And those kids at that school don't know how lucky they are, or they're better. Thank you.
Speaker 2:I can't wait to see the Aussies in Paris. Yeah, you've got me Tabsin.
Speaker 1:Thanks for joining me.
Speaker 2:Thanks, Jace.
Speaker 1:Speak soon.
Speaker 2:Bye.
Speaker 1:Thanks for listening to the Champion Within. You can catch more details of this chapter of Townsend North on the show notes, where you can also follow and support this show. You can follow the show on Instagram at the underscore champion within. Stay tuned and I'll be with you again soon.
