The Champion Within
This is a series with fascinating and inspiring people, and what it takes to be the best you can at whatever your endeavours may be.
We will learn from others as to how they have handled themselves in their own pursuits, and so that we can apply to ourselves.
We’ll talk about the necessary support and how important it is, to have the best and appropriate systems around us, so that we can be the best possible. We’ll discuss aspects of ourselves that we can all develop.
This is a show with inspiring people, including musicians, artists, athletes, medical specialists, business entrepreneurs and more…in the pursuit of excellence.
I’m Jason Agosta, a health professional and former athlete, and I'm fascinated in people’s stories, my own involves developing certain attributes over time, but also things that were not done well or were significantly missing.
Join me on The Champion Within in discovering that everybody has a story, and everybody has a message.
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jason@ja-podiatry.com
The Champion Within
Ep.27 Kerry Fisher: The World of Skateboarding...Cultural Impact & Olympic Triumphs
What does it take to master the art of skateboarding? On this thrilling episode of The Champion Within, we sit down with Kerry Fisher, one of the most influential figures in the skateboarding industry, to uncover the secrets behind the sport's meteoric rise and its deep cultural impact. From the adrenaline-pumping ramps to the fashion runways, skateboarding's influence is everywhere. We promise you'll gain unparalleled insights into how skateboarding has evolved, fueled by both a passionate community and its recent Olympic debut. Discover how governments are stepping up to build skate parks and create opportunities for future skateboarding stars.
Join us as we navigate the intricate world of skateboarding progression and competition. Kerry shares expert knowledge on the technical challenges that make skateboarding both a science and an art. We draw fascinating comparisons to other sports, like pole vaulting, and explore how advancements like landing bags have paralleled innovations in skateboarding. Dive into the subjective nature of skateboarding judging, the significance of waxing rails, and the environmental variables that can make or break a skater's performance. Understand why younger skaters are dominating the scene and how the generational shifts are fueling rapid talent development.
In this episode, we also spotlight the powerful intersection of skateboarding with fashion, lifestyle, and marketing. While high-profile collaborations, such as Keegan Palmer's work with Golden Goose, are blending skate culture with mainstream fashion. Kerry and I discuss the global proliferation of skate parks, the resurgence of vert skating, and the unique blend of grassroots passion and commercial appeal that defines modern skateboarding. We also touch on the resilience and mental toughness of young skaters. Tune in for a compelling conversation that captures the essence of skateboarding's past, present, and exciting future.
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@f1shface (Kerry Fisher)
@arisa_trew
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@goldengoose
@supremenewyork
Welcome back to the Champion Within where we speak with fascinating people with inspiring and interesting stories. I'm Jason Agosta and in this episode we delve into the world of skateboarding with Kerry Fisher, a skateboarder at heart and an industry stalwart. Kerry has been instrumental in carving out skateboarding categories for giants such as Nike and Adidas, but his journey doesn't stop there. He's brought his unique energy and learnings to the consumer electronics world via Skullcandy, blending his passion for skateboarding with innovative tech resonating with the culture of skating. We speak about skateboarding at the Olympics and the impact that skateboarding has on the apparel industry. Obviously, skateboarding is massive globally and I think we're just about to have a bit of a push here in Australia after what we've seen in the Olympics. You know, I think, the impact of skateboarding people don't realise how big it is with, say, the fashion industry, the hardware as well, yep, and if we think about like, just apparel, like the impact on footwear is massive, yep, which I know you've been involved in, you know, for most of your working time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly but the one thing that's interesting is like globally, they say that there's, you know, something like worldwide they're saying there's 90 million skateboarders In Australia. Here we have one and a half million, which doesn't sound that many, and I'm sure the number's probably much greater. Yeah, but I think with what we've seen with the young guy Keegan Palmer and the young woman Arissa True, what we've seen the last week at the Olympics in Paris, I'm sure those numbers are going to go up, because the impact of that on kids wanting a skateboard and let's go to the skateboard today is going to be massive. That's it.
Speaker 2:Absolutely no, it is. You've got to. I guess one thing. The first thing that pops to mind is accessibility. Skateboarding is so accessible, right, easy. It's a useless wooden toy. It's a plank of wood wheels. You can put it in your arm, you can put it in the boot, you can put it on the back of your bike. You know, like, there's all sorts of modes of transport, also of transport. Also, in Australia, there's more skate parks now than cricket pitches. Right, okay, it's there. So the thing is, it's so accessible and it will grow. There's waves, so there was a big boom in the 80s. We came to the 90s and the early 2000s. It came down and started climbing again. And you're right, the trajectory now of skateboarding all the way from 2024, paris through to LA in 28.
Speaker 2:I think it's very exciting to see what sort of growth and how it grows, because that's the important bit is how it's going to grow. Yeah, you know the performance side, the skateboard side, and what I mean by that is the purest um, uh, you know, it's the. For me, what's fantastic is the people in the industry, how it helps them. You know, for me, what's fantastic is the people in the industry, how it helps them. You know the growth of the industry, whether it be, you know the hardware, the apparel, you know the footwear, whatever it might be Sure. So I think that's exciting as well. So, yeah, I think we're in unexplored territory.
Speaker 1:To be honest, I think one thing that people don't realise, particularly with the Olympics that we've just seen in Paris like, what the Olympics does is create a pathway for these sports, whether it's BMX, breakdance, skateboarding, whatever. And there's a lot of the naysayers out there saying, oh, it's not purist activity or Olympic activity, but what the Olympics does is create a pathway for people to strive for excellence. Yeah, and instead of skating being like, oh no, I don't want my child hanging around the skate park with all those kids, or just not going to school or whatever else goes on there, now you can see that there will be a vision of like, yeah, if he wants to go skate, let's go and skate, because there's a pathway to strive for excellence, which is what the Olympics does. And those two young people we've seen Keegan Palmer and Arisa Truer, and everyone else involved in it, and even the older guys, like Andy McDonald from the UK was 51. Pedro Barris is I'm not sure what age he is.
Speaker 2:Well, he looks older than he is, he's 29,. But yeah, he's seasoned, though, because of the age he started, you know.
Speaker 1:But there's a range of people there and now it's like there's a pathway for people to strive for, so it's going to be interesting to see what happens with it. And your point about how it's going to be interesting to see what happens with it and your point about how it's going to grow, yeah, is going to be interesting because obviously it's the building of skate parks which is going to be the big thing, isn't it like from a government point of view?
Speaker 2:so to your point, you know the the development of careers as such, if you want to, if you want to, that is, the skate parks are going to be important, the bowls are going to be important, the vert ramps are going to be important. I just want to make a quick point. You know the purists, or the. You know the people that just want to skate. They don't care about the Olympics, and that's good. You know, like, I can see both sides of the fence and you can have both, and that's the beautiful thing. They're going to skate or they're going to create a DIY spot and skate that with their mates, drink a long neck and have fun awesome. Then you're going to have your kids that want to skate and they will be skating at the parks because it's so accessible and there truly is.
Speaker 2:Now, whether that comes into, you know, um, you know there's a guy there's got. You know there's many people around Australia that have, um, skate schools. That's great During the school days, the introduction, you know, into skateboarding. It's going to help them Even just like, naturally, at the skate parks, just skating all the time and skating all the different skate parks so that you're learning every single different obstacle time on board. It's yeah, there's a lot that can happen on that progression path. Then you get into, you know, I mean you get into the sponsorship, you've got the managers, the management, it's just yeah, on that point about coaching and schools are there many around?
Speaker 1:Are there many coaches and like people setting up like they've done in the surf industry? There's a surf school popping up, you know left, right and centre. Are there many in the skate?
Speaker 2:world. There is a lot and there's some great ones. There's, you know, there's one in Mordialloc here. It's called Curbside Coaching and it's a guy. He's a great guy. He's rented out a full warehouse and he's got a full skate park indoors and he does, you know, after school. He does school holidays. He has one-on-one lessons To that level. You know. There's several around the country. It's accessible. But then you've got individuals that go to skate parks and coach and do school holiday programs. You even have some brands that are doing it. So it's already started. I'm interested to see where that goes as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so the numbers of that will be interesting, won't it with, hopefully, the increase in parks? Yeah, interested to see where that goes as well. Yeah, so the numbers of that will be interesting, with the hopefully the increase in parks. Yeah, so, hopefully, uh, from the olympics we can see, you know, kids like dad, mom, I want a board, I need a skateboard, because it was so inspiring. Yeah, that park skating was so inspiring and so cool to watch. Yeah, it's one of the best things I think I've seen at the olympics.
Speaker 2:for sure it is and what's interesting there is, there will be kids that will be like Mom, you know I want to skate and I want to do this. It's going to be how people navigate through that mental hurdle that it's really hard, like skateboarding is really hard. These guys make it look easy, yeah, but it's really hard. These guys make it look easy, yeah, but it's really hard, yeah. So that's the interesting. You've got to. I guess where I'm going with this is that if you want to skate, you've got to want to skate, yeah, like you really do. It's not like your parents can't really push you into it, because it's just that it's really hard.
Speaker 2:Well, hopefully they don't have to because it's so fun, huh, exactly, but that's it fun, but that's the, that's the, that's the beautiful thing of it, even from the mental health point of view, the the benefits of skateboarding, because when you're so rewarded when you make something, because it is so hard, whether it be the first time you stand on a skateboard, the first time you push to, the first time you do an ollie, you know it's. The progression is so rewarding.
Speaker 1:We'll get onto some of the terminology like ollie and crook and smith. I mean, it's not just cracking up, I'm completely ignorant to the whole thing. Yeah, um, the accessibility point you make is um so true, isn't it? Because it's so easy to just pick up a board and go down the shop and jump this and jump that and yeah go for it.
Speaker 2:That's how I get my morning coffee yeah, that's it.
Speaker 1:For any of us, though, that's the whole thing getting in school or go and get your coffee, yeah. Um, now, going back to what you just said about being difficult, one of the things I saw in the street skating the street style skating in paris, yeah was that it looked incredibly difficult. This is coming from complete ignorance and you need to set me straight, and everyone else, but to look at the skater's fall and I have to say, looking at the falling being quite consistent then I started looking at it in a different light, thinking, oh my God, that is really really hard. What they're trying to do, yeah, is jump, flip the board, slide down the rail and try and land that thing, and then, time and time again, they're falling, falling.
Speaker 1:I'm thinking. Initially I thought, oh, these guys are supposed to be the best of their country around the world, and then I looked at it in a different light and said this is insane what they're trying to do at speed. Yeah, you would have a different appreciation to me of that, but I think most people would go, oh, he's fallen again and another one's fallen, and another one's fallen. But it was quite interesting to look at that and then realise this is so hard to pull off.
Speaker 2:It is and it's actually hard to. If you've never skateboarded, you wouldn't understand that. So you know I fully respect that respect that it's like and he's tried that four times the other olympians they wouldn't make the olympic team if that happened.
Speaker 2:Yeah so I get it I mean 100, I guess it's the. There's many variables, um, you know it's concrete number one. So it's really it is really hard to fall on. People don't want to fall on it. Um, but yeah, I mean with skateboard it's not a perfect sport, it can't be, it's never mastered.
Speaker 2:I don't think it's ever mastered, you know, because there's so much progression. So you think about it and I mean it's the same with the Olympics. I watched something the other day on track and field and there was guys in the 1908 Olympics, I in the 1908 Olympics I think it was Athens, anyway, I might be wrong Doing high jump and pole vault and they had no landing bag. Yeah, they had no landing bag. So it progresses and now they have landing bags and they have all this stuff.
Speaker 2:It's the same with skateboarding. You know it becomes a very progression thing. But the technicality of it all, the consistency, you know, like if you're flipping a board, you're making the board it's a bit of timber hit the ground. You're flicking your front foot off to make the board turn around, then you're catching it no straps thing, it's just like magic carpet. And then you land in on a, on a round rail, with a piece of metal that you're supposed to stick on where the rail is. Some of it's got wax on, some of it doesn't, or your tail, same thing, and it just you know it's super hard.
Speaker 1:So many variables. I think that's the thing there's a good point you made about you never perfect it and there's an endless progression. Yeah, like playing guitar or whatever it may be. Yeah, just on that point about the waxing we heard a lot of that spoken of in Paris. Because of the heat and the sunshine, yeah, saying, oh the rail, the wax comes off the rail.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And an obvious question, and this might sound completely ignorant why don't they just re-wax it?
Speaker 2:Well, because it goes back to my point, because it would be a what's the word? Advantage. It would be a what's the word?
Speaker 1:Advantage.
Speaker 2:It would be a disadvantage to other skateboarders because it's a variable. So if you put more wax on it, it becomes more slick, right? So, people, there's different variations of that how much wax you put on. Personally, I'm not a fan of wax, but these skaters need it because of what they're doing. You know, it's kind of nearly dangerous. My understanding of the rule in Paris was that once the comp had started, yes, you couldn't go and wax the obstacle. That's why you're. I don't know if you noticed it at all, but they had bits of wax in their pocket and they were waxing their tail or the middle of their board. Oh right, okay, so it applies wax, but you couldn't go on and give a thick lather of wax because it would be a disadvantage to the other skateboarders when they're trying tricks. Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if we go back to the bowl skating and the young guy Keegan Palmer, and you just said like it's endless progression, he gets out of the bowl, he's won the competition, he says, and he's just done this most outrageous run and just flipping and turning so high. And then he gets out and says, well, I had a few more tricks under my belt that if I had to pull them out I could have. And I thought what else can you do? This young guy is crazy and such an inspiration and hopefully an inspiration to so many young people and, as I understand he's, he lives in california, yep, which is a bit of the hot bed of skating, isn't it?
Speaker 2:yeah, absolutely. I mean skateboarding was born in san diego. You know it's the, it was the birthplace and it's the hub of the industry. You know it's. You know it's the great weather, lifelong, great spots, hilly, you know, it's got some Hills there, it's got a lot of building, but it's got the beach, you know, because it all derived from surfing. So, yeah, san Diego is the spot, but it's interesting. I'm not sure if you were leading into a question with Keegan on that, on that run bit, but you know he would have had more in his bag. That's the thing with skateboarders they're the biggest critic. They would have landed that run and gone you know, I could have done that better.
Speaker 2:You know I could have done that better and most likely he could have. You know, I think I heard a sound bite of of him saying you know, I want it on my safety run. Yeah, it's incredible, you know. Of course he did. He is. I mean, he is incredible, but it's interesting. You know, like some there'll be people in skateboarding and then the naysayers, of course, but they'll be like, yeah, but I liked Tom Shah better and you'd be like, okay, why Better style? So that's where the subjective judging comes in. You know, like there's technical tricks, there's speed, there's amplitude, there's all of that, but style plays a big part in how do you get style. Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 1:That's true. It's interesting, you know, watching those competitions, how young the skaters were, and I couldn't help but think there is an 11-year-old from China, there's a 14-year-old here, a 15, a 16-year-old. How come we don't see the majority of the skaters like, say, 20 or 25, and they're bigger and stronger and more powerful than, say, the 15-year-old. Why is it that they're so young? Like Arisa, true, I think was 14. 14, correct.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a really good question. My belief, or my opinion of that and people might have others is that it's generational and it goes back to that cycle. You know, late 80s it was massive 90s, 2000s, and then it comes down the bell curve and then it's getting peaking again, feeder competitions to a certain level. So you've got competitions, right, yeah, you've got your car park competitions and then you've got your state competitions and then, you know, then X Games came along and then this competition came along, and then the Olympics came along. Yeah, people that were truly passionate about skateboarding and I'll use Pedro as an example. He wanted to win. You know, his whole thing is I'm a winner and he is, yeah, he's great. So he's 29. There wasn't a lot of them at that time, right, yes, okay, there's only a couple that have gone through that then can make it into the olympics. Now, however, at the same time, even since paris to to the.
Speaker 2:You know, the point of this whole conversation is the, the light it shed on skateboarding that now this generation is coming through.
Speaker 2:Then you have countries you know, like Japan did extremely well and still do in skateboarding, like they are the outliers here. You know they've created this skateboarding mecca and performance at a young age of people that just can do tricks that should take 10 years in two years. And then you've got China that have full skate programs. You know, like some of the stories I've heard you know I do a lot of work in Asia Pacific Some of the stories I've heard around skateboarding in China is that you know, some of the academies would be like, oh, you're a gymnast, you'd be good at skateboarding. Okay, you know, at a young age. So that's my belief of why we see such a young generation coming through and why we're kind of missing that middle gap. Because it is right in 25 to 35 which could still perform, and there's people 25 to 35 that can skate at an olympic but they just probably choose not to Right okay, because of their psyche growing up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so getting back to you, were talking about being accessible, but the access to competitions or the want to compete is probably greater for this younger generation that's what you're saying, yes, the want, yep, right, okay, so it's still really inspirational to see the Pedro Barras at 29 and Andy McDonald at 51. Yeah, go around and not to skate, just like you know.
Speaker 2:Half as good, but really really good it's so cool, you know, yeah, and then you have people like Tony Hall championing him.
Speaker 2:He's there on the sidelines, yes, New dogs next to Tony Hall, yeah, championing Andy McDonald. You know it's like it's awesome and that's the other thing. There's not a lot of Olympic sports that I've seen and once again I could be wrong but the way that skateboarders embrace each other, their competitors, at an Olympic sport, you know like at the end of their run they're high-fiving the competitors. You know like, yeah, you're going to beat me, that's awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's one thing we notice all the time at like, you know, these games is the sports where you do your run or you know, you do your high jump or whatever. You spend so much time on the sidelines with those people and you're obviously travelling around to different competitions around. You know, globally, you spend so much time with each other. You do get to know true gather really well. It's not like, oh, we'd run a race, yeah, high five at the end, and we're out of there. Yeah, these guys are actually hanging around on the sidelines consistently. Yeah, um, what I was going to say was tell me, getting back to the age of involvement and of competing, is it an injury issue as well? Like, you've been skating for 10 or 15 years and I'm now 25, and you know what? I'm just a little beat up.
Speaker 2:I think sometimes, yes, absolutely, but I think sometimes life you find a girl, you get married, you have kids, you know. So you've come into a point again where you've got to choose, and whether you want to choose or not, but life puts you in this direction. So that's about that age, that that can happen. You know, it's like different things in life are important then, but it depends how much you're invested Instead of spending two hours a day in the skateboard well, not it you, but mentally you do.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean. Like I'm 50, I'm invested. Like I love to skate, so I'll go my body fix so I can keep skating and I don't care if I only skate four hours a week, but I'm stoked, yeah. Yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:There's just different levels of investment, yeah sure, it's a really big push for the companies involved with these skaters, isn't it? Like the status of these guys we've seen, you know, on our televisions this week is going to be through the roof and it's a massive push for the companies apparel companies and I think you and I touched on this about the influence on the fashion industry skateboarding has been a major influence absolutely, but you know you think about.
Speaker 2:So there's two parts to this and I might need you to remind me of the question in a sec, so I'll probably go off on a bit of a tangent, so I'll probably go for it. Go um, the fashion side, okay, so if you look at a brand like nike or adidas, right, they got involved in skateboarding, they're not from skateboarding got involved. They did a very good job, I think, of investing in skateboarding and they did that purely because they wanted to be. They could see that skateboarding influenced fashion. It influenced the people that surround the fashion world, the brands that live in that fashion world, and then the endemic fashion world which is the skateboarding fashion world. You know there's things and they go hand in hand. You know, like we chatted about it the other day, the pants and the shoes, the silhouettes, the size. You know like that, that. You know brands are going to be very good at watching what different segments of the industry are doing so that they can adapt and make sure that they're leading that chase.
Speaker 2:Where I'm going with that is what I find interesting is there's no, there's no uniform for the Olympics for skateboarding. There is kits, but I can tell you right now. I know some of the people that designed the US kits or the Netherlands kits. They're just skateboarders, so they designed it for function, but also what a skateboarder would wear each and every day. You know, I looked at the Australian skateboarding outfit. I mean, I'm not sure that truly represents what skateboarders would wear every single day. It was a little bit performance-based, but it would probably be something that Keegan would wear, you know. To be honest, yeah, okay, look at the US kit denim jeans and an open collared shirt. Yeah, like.
Speaker 1:I noticed that there was quite a variation between the US skaters Exactly the button-up polo shirt, then the open collar, you know things like that.
Speaker 2:You know. So they're still building it to that skate sort of style, but I think it's the way that they wear it. You know the skateboard is the way that they wear it. They influence it because it's cool. You know, it's just super cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, talking about being cool, you just remind me when you said you know Tony Hawk was there and Slick was in the audience. The it just reminded me when you said you know Tony Hawk was there and Snoop was in the audience. The number of high-profile people around the world who were there at the park skating like the one that stood out for me and didn't notice was Ben Harper, but it's just like people just gravitated to it.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, it's so exciting. Nicole Kidman was there. Nicole Kidman was watching the women's skateboarding. It was awesome. I saw a clip of her on Instagram and I was like, oh my God, how good.
Speaker 1:Well, she was a BMX bandit, so she's pretty you know she's pretty cool, yeah, yeah, but I'll sort of like that as far as how it pushes a lifestyle with the fashion. It's not just selling fashion, getting back to it, but there's this exciting activity, that driving a lifestyle, and now that people can see there's a a really professional sort of edge to it. But there's a pathway and I love that that.
Speaker 2:It sort of almost sells a great lifestyle it does and it's it's the link, isn't it? You know, yeah, lifestyle, it's the fashion, it's the way you wear it, it's the performance. Um, what I? So my marketing brain sort of switches on when I look at how do you connect the dots as a brand to commercialize it? And what I mean by commercial? I get sales right. So an interesting one. So keegan palmer rides for golden goose, which is a italian high-end luxury footwear company. You know he sells for a thousand bucks. No skateboarders buying that, right, yeah, away, yeah, they're doing it for the connection to the fashion world. Yeah, he had a signature shoe that he was wearing in the hopes that he would win. That went on sale straight after the the event, you know. So, like that's, golden goose will do very well at that. No skateboarders going out buying that, by the way, yeah, and tell you what? There's a lot of school mums going out and buying that, yeah.
Speaker 1:So that's that's what I find fascinating yeah, and that obviously that flows onto the hardware, like the boards and the wheels and things like that, which is massive industry and we just that's.
Speaker 2:That's the piece that I love because that gives back to skateboarding, you see. So that really does go back into the skateboarding industry. Golden Goose doesn't go back in there. I kind of love what they're doing because it's cheeky. Yeah, yeah but you know, when it comes to the boards, the guys that you know, the skateboarders that started these brands, and it's going back to them. It's going back to the industry. That's what I love and that's what I hope happens more.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, that's one thing about the Olympics. It sort of does make it quite pure, doesn't it? Without seeing everything emblazoned with the company's logos the branding. I sort of like that. It brings it just back to the board and the wheels.
Speaker 2:It can entice some grassroots marketing, which I really like. We mentioned this the other day. Steve Van Doren was there from Vans, wearing a big Vans hat and holding up a Vans T-shirt. I mean, that's the guy that owns this you know brand, or the founder's son, you know, still at an event in his Hawaiian shirt, big American guy, vans. Yeah, I kind of thought it was pretty cool, to be honest.
Speaker 1:Tell me, when we talk about skateboarding being massive in other countries like US and Brazil and through Europe, have we seen an increase in parks that are built in those countries? Do you know?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely so. You know, I'll use Indonesia as the example. Right, you'd be surprised. I mean, skateboarding is not represented in indonesia.
Speaker 1:It's not you know, you don't hear of it.
Speaker 2:You don't see any indonesian skateboarders. I mean there are some hundred percent, but it's not no, and you wouldn't go. I'm going to go to indonesia to hit all the parks. There's probably 40 to 50 skate parks there. Yeah, okay, as an example, understand different population. You know the 247 million people, different per capita skate park, but you wouldn't think of it.
Speaker 2:Brazil, I mean, skate parks are popping up everywhere and it's not slowing down. You've got in Australia alone there's five different park building companies. You know they're all sprouting for and you know Convict, which is the biggest one, now has a staff of you know I can imagine like sort of 50 to 60 headcount in their business dedicated to building what they're calling urban spaces. So it can be skate park, playground, landscaping, pump track, but they'll be implementing them all around. But they do it all around the world. I mean the US skate parks have. So Australia led the skate park builds. So a lot of people were influenced by Australia. The US was one. The US was so slow behind building all skate parks. Yeah, okay, you know they had one per city or something. Now they have one per suburb. Right, okay, so it's good. But, yes, brazil, all those countries definitely growing in skate parks. Even you know the Asian countries Hong Kong, china, they're all building skate parks.
Speaker 1:So are we seeing more of the street-style skating or the sort of bowl or park skating being built, or is it a bit of both?
Speaker 2:It adapts. So it's very similar to the Olympics. They have their street and they have their bowls and that's what's in the parks. Right, vert skating is actually making a comeback, you know. So they're even looking at putting vert ramps in the 28 Olympics. Yeah, that's the one we want. Yeah, it is. I mean, look, I think that one's so exciting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, we might see the old boys come back out, well yeah, maybe, but you know what A lot of those so interesting.
Speaker 2:when a lot of those park skaters were, or are, all vert skaters. They had to adapt their skateboarding to a smaller transition so it was quite difficult for them. That park Okay. Once they get a big ramp, what they'll be doing? Sure.
Speaker 1:Especially Tom Schaar. Tom Schaar, the park skater.
Speaker 2:He's come from more of the vert background Yep, Right okay. Yep, he was out at the start of the year, in February, at an event called Belco Bowl Jam and he just blew everyone away with the way that he skates. He's incredible.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, that's another thing. Actually, talking about the competitions, do you think we'll see more of the competitions, like more competitions arise in the next few years? Possibly?
Speaker 2:What I think we'll see is that the current competition circuits will reach more countries. For example, there's a competition called Street League of Skateboarding and it's been around for years. That came to Sydney last year and it will now come back again, so the competition series will be more global. Yeah, so, once again, more accessible points of entry. Yeah, okay, I don't know if more competitions will develop. There's always community comps local parks, shops run comps, but when it comes big scale, I think you'll see X Games, street League and the likes of those.
Speaker 2:What you're also seeing is then the fun side. There's a and this is very grassroots, you know, but it's quite big in skateboarding. So later in the year there's a competition coming out called the Bunt Jam. It's a podcast that they've made into a skateboarding event. They're doing one in Melbourne which is a real fun sort of event. It's sports cross skateboarding, so the skateboarders perform basketball teams and then they'll play basketball and then they'll skate. It's all fun and games like that. You've got ones like Copenhagen Pro, which is in Copenhagen, and it's basically. I went last year.
Speaker 1:Which I know you competed in.
Speaker 2:yes, there's a sea of skateboarders there and the town, just the city, just lets them roam free. It's the most incredible experience. So you've got different where I'm going is you've got different formats of competitions, as well, yeah, okay, yeah.
Speaker 1:Going back to bringing in people, I think you mentioned, like handpicking people from other sports to bring in, which we've seen with gymnastics going into the aerials, skiing, yeah.
Speaker 1:All of those people we've seen have come from gymnastics and they've got that ability and spatial awareness to flip and turn upside down and not lose where they are in the sense of where they are. Do you think that we're going to see more sort of specific training with the skaters, where you, you know they'll be able to go to a training center or something, and maybe this is already happening, I don't know. Yeah, they'll be able to flip and turn and whatever, and land in the um yeah you know, in the foam blocks.
Speaker 1:I'm just thinking outside the square here, as far as taking it to another level and training the youngsters as to whether we're going to see that sort of pathway. Okay, yep, you're great at gymnastics.
Speaker 2:You could do this I think two parts of that is that. And look, I don't know you could. I would never imagine trying to get someone from another sport to try skateboarding. I would encourage it, but I don't know the results. I think it needs to come from the desire to skate because, like I was saying, the progression's so hard. But on your point, is there the training facilities to do the foam pits and all that stuff 100? There's great operations around the world. There's a place, woodwood, which is a camp. There's actually one coming to sydney, I believe at the end of this year, and they have, you know, vert ramp and then on the side of it you know a foam pit. So you can try stuff off the vert ramp into the foam pit, or you can go over like a fun box and it'll be a foam pit on the other side so you can start trying anything. Make sure that you are aware, as opposed to putting someone that is spatially aware on a thing that slips out from underneath them. Skateboarding Well, that's it.
Speaker 1:You know, that's how we all become a little bit more broken. Exactly, it's interesting actually talking about that. I did look up a long time ago the forces. So when someone jumps off a ramp or gets vertical in the bowl and then they land close to being on the flats, it's something like eight to nine times your body weight of loading. So you only have to be a little bit off and it's going to hit pretty hard.
Speaker 2:It's a good point. I mean it's very easy to break yourself off proper like really easy. Yeah, well, that gets back to what I said earlier because you've only got to be like the, the littlest piece to your point off and it can just all go wrong.
Speaker 1:That's why there's knee surgeries, you know, like ankles, wrists yeah, so that yeah, that goes back to what I was saying before about is it? Is it? Um, you know, that is that why we see the youngsters predominantly at these, at the Olympics, because they're not so beaten up, I don't know more mobile, less broken, you know it sort of makes sense, in a way 100% Can bounce back quick recoveries, yep.
Speaker 1:Now the young girl who took our televisions by storm at Orissa. True, she was so under the pump in that competition and then just came out and the sense of composure. It's incredible and such an unbelievable example for other young people to go back and look at and say, yeah, that's how I've got to handle myself and really true Olympic level sort of, I suppose I would say, presented a true olympic spirit absolutely, you couldn't ask maturity beyond her years.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she's just cool she's cool in every aspect. Right yeah, calm and collected, like the definition of it was it's. It's amazing. You know, I don't know arisa, but I've seen her on Instagram. I know of her through the skateboarding industry and every time you see her, that's her. It seems like nothing bothers her, and I think the main thing is she's just having fun. It's real simple. That's exactly what it looked like too Just having fun, and you know, if you're having fun, nothing fazes you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think she even said something like yeah, she said something about. I just don't let it bother me, because one of the presenters asked that pretty similar question and I think it's so cool. But I also wonder if it is an age thing, like at 14, you're not really too worried about much, are you? I was wondering if she's 20, when it's potentially sponsorship deals on the line or money on, I don't know. Like, I'm just making yeah, yeah, yeah, like how you present yourself, yeah, you know, does it change the game a little bit? I don't know, but she also, she surrounds herself with good people also. You know, I know a lot of her network and they're, you know, they're just really good people as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and they're just really good people as well. Yeah, well, we noticed that with the other Australian guy, keegan Palmer very well presented, so polished, yeah, the maturity beyond his years, exactly, yeah.
Speaker 2:So I think something as well that he's been in skateboarding so long traveling the world. That's life experience as well, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a lot of well, yeah, yeah, a lot of perspective. Yeah, do you think that the whole industry can grow, and maybe more rapidly than what it has, because of the push that the Olympics has brought on with?
Speaker 2:skating. Yeah, my hopes is 100%, yes, and I think it can. But what's sad right now is that if you look at the core of it, you know there's skate shops actually closing at the moment and skate shops that have been around for 10 to 12 years, and I don't have the answer exactly why. You know you can suggest that there's more. Some of these brands have gone wider in their distribution so they can get it more conveniently, whether it be online or at bigger doors, I don't, you know.
Speaker 2:Um also covid was a big effect because it gave a negative sense of the growth of hard goods and then people stocked up because they couldn't get supplied and then they got stocked with a lot of inventory, their cash flow, et cetera, et cetera. So right now there's a lot of skate stores shutting down, right. But I think when it comes to probably the athletic or the performance side, it's going to grow. I think that's hands down. There's going to be more. You know, like the start of our conversation, there's going to be more people wanting to be involved and you'd hope that, with more participation, more growth in the industry.
Speaker 1:So, with countries that are, you know, are hugely populated, we're now seeing them on the global scene, like China, for instance, as we were talking about. It's going to be interesting to sort of watch this space, isn't it it is and see what happens there.
Speaker 2:What's interesting in China, and I think it's changed a lot culturally. You know, 10, 20, 20 years ago there was a real thing and you know, because I used to ask people and friends up there that skated, like, why is there not more? A lot of the times is that there was a one child policy in china and they didn't, their parents just didn't, wouldn't let them skate. Yeah, you're not allowed to skate, you know you're going to need to work, you need, you know. So it's going to be interesting how that changes. And then, um, culturally, you know, you have a look at where it's big australia, even brazil, the us. It's very beach, it's very free, it's very easy, it's you know, it's a different sort of vibe as well. My hopes is that in china. I would love to see what skateboarding growth looks like in China. That is going to be exciting, for sure.
Speaker 1:Now I've got to ask you where are we going to go with the fashion side of things? Give me a prediction. I know skating is selling a lifestyle, but what are we going to see from a?
Speaker 2:fashion point of view, Definitely. Well, I mean, if you go off history and if you go off cycles, we are going to get. Well, you know, right now we are in that little bit more um, bigger profile shoe, Um, we're in very, very big pants, wide leg, um, we're in oversized shorts, Um, I just see it slimming in a little. You know, like, I think, just it's going to know, the likes of the Vans silhouettes are going to come back on, the vulcanised shoes are going to come back on, which then, you know, the fashion brands will jump on after also.
Speaker 1:So you see, the changes actually will influence other sort of aspects of the textile industry. Oh yeah, absolutely, They'll look at it.
Speaker 2:I mean you look at Supreme. I mean, you look at Supreme. You know you look at Supreme and the stuff they'll put out. The fashion world's looking at them. You know. If you looked at a fashion brand's mood board and their you know two-year narrative, there's pictures of skateboarders on there. 100% they want and that's why I was talking about the golden goose bit. They're like we need skateboarding to make sure that we're relevant and accessible to and look cool in this world like it's they're definitely following.
Speaker 1:So where the whatever the skateboarders are wearing when you watch them, that's what's going to come in fashion, sort of two years later really, like I said, there's enormous reach, and this goes hand in hand with what we're saying about creating a pathway so people can be inspired as well.
Speaker 2:And incredible reach, oh, incredible reach. You know, like skateboarders bought in cargo shorts to the world of fashion. You know, many, many years, 20 years ago, like you know, this guy, Mike V, was skating in cargo shorts. Next second, you know, they're everywhere. I think actually like military pants will make a bit of a comeback in the next year or so as well.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's my thought. We'll watch this space.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:Hey, I really appreciate you joining me so interesting. Of course I'm really a little bit ignorant to the skate world but you know, skated a lot when I was younger. But you know I skated a lot when I was younger. But you know, I'm just, like many other people, just been fascinated with what has been presented to us in Paris and it has been next level compared to the previous Olympics and I think, if you think about LA in four years' time, I'm going to step up again.
Speaker 1:yeah, as you said, it's sort of like the heartland of the whole industry. It's just going to be amazing to see what happens.
Speaker 2:It'll be massive. I can't wait. I'm going to try and get there myself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you should try and line up and compete. Oh, yeah, try and go for it with your broken legs and everything, exactly, but that's really cool and it is, you know. I think what you've just done is given an insight behind the scenes. Yep, because we just see the skaters dropping and yeah that's cool yeah we don't see the reach that it has, and it's so interesting what you're talking about with golden goose yeah, no, I thought it would be a good example, that one.
Speaker 2:I actually sent you this thing on instagram last night. You know kieran woolley, who's in the Olympics three days later he's at the local skate park in paris skating with all the kids, just like it's no big thing. I'm curious if there's other Olympians in Paris going for a run at the track field or doing high jump over it. You know what?
Speaker 1:I mean.
Speaker 2:Like it's just kind of an interesting concept.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's true, that's good. Yeah, I saw this morning that the surfers had flown in from Tahiti.
Speaker 1:Oh right, gabriel Medina was there, he'd flown in a few days ago and he was at the the medal, yeah, but he flew in from Tahiti to Paris to be and he's in the village. He's at whatever game, whatever it was. He was at the track and field. Yeah, he was just mixing it with all, just lapping up the whole scene. Then carly vast, the guy who won the surfing he came down the sen yesterday or last night, yeah, being towed and surfing the wake and he's come under the concord and the um eiffel tower.
Speaker 1:And then he got up on the thing it was like so cool, yeah, which is really cool.
Speaker 2:We were actually joking. So under the eiff Tower there's a pond that used to get drained and cleaned and it's skateable. We were like, imagine they did an event there, like, as in Paris, they drained the pond and they did that. I thought that would be pretty cool.
Speaker 1:Hey, that's so good. I love the influence on the fashion thing. Yeah, it's good fun. I don't wear fashion, but I'm so into it. I just love seeing what's going on.
Speaker 2:I'm actually looking to get some cargo pants. I've been looking for some good ones, some military pants, you know, stay two or three years ahead.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:That's it. We can start a brand and put out a. Actually, I'll do that. We'll do a brand now on the hopes that it's going to turn on big. Yeah Well, that's what you have to do, isn't it Exactly? Well, that's what you have to do, isn't it Exactly Well, the big brands can take that risk. You know, when I was at Nike even, we'd be like here's the four options, we're going to go after all of them, and when one hits, we're good.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, we want a cargo, we want a skinny jean and we want a tank top. Making cool, let's design this and then just go out and market with all of it. It just didn't matter. You know like you had the money and the resource to do it, yeah. But if you're an independent, you're like this one better work.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay. Everything's on the line? Yeah, but it is. I mean, as I said, it's like selling a lifestyle, isn't it? And people will follow that. All you need is one profile, one person of profile, just to be seen and boom. Every 15-year-old has got to have that.
Speaker 2:I mean we have that now.
Speaker 1:So we've got a 14-year-old. I need this, I want that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's who they're targeting. That's who they're targeting, right yeah.
Speaker 1:It's just so powerful though you don't realise. No, Don't slide down the bowl and your golden goose is your $600, $700 gold. That's hilarious, oh man.
Speaker 2:It's fun. Well, because I was a bit involved in it all, because my best mate's his manager and he's setting up the. This guy, corbin Harris, is setting up the Golden Goose Skate Program program, which is not a skate program because it's not meant for the skate stores or the skaters. So when I was in copenhagen, yeah, I got a look inside that world and I met with the. You know, they got me in just a chapter the mark, the global marketing guy and stuff and their approach and everything. And it's just amazing. Because they're like, no, it's not, it's not really for the skateboarders. I'm like, well, well, you've got to do something for them, like you can't just come in and take it all, yeah, so yeah, it was just super interesting.
Speaker 1:But it is interesting what you said about who's going to buy the Keegan Palmer shoe. Is it the shoe it's school, it's school mum's. So it's the mum who's cashed up and she thinks, yeah, I'm going to be more cool if I have the skateboard shoe. That's it 100%, it's been $1,000.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm not going to buy the $600 or $700 one. I'm going to spend $1,000.
Speaker 2:Exactly, and it's like then the other mums might see and go oh, she's so trendy with her skateboard shoes, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Exactly, yeah, yeah, exactly. You know what's interesting? The number of people who come into my rooms now who are wearing, say, prada, gucci, especially Gucci, yeah, anyway, some of that really high-end, those high-end brands and the quality is amazing. I check them all out and they're insane. The materials and the way they're constructed, yeah, but they've all come down, like, to be accessible yeah, a fix of $700 a pair, that's it. So, oh, yeah, I've got three pairs of those Goochies, yeah, like, and it's quite consistent that that's happening because they've actually brought the cost down for the street shoe.
Speaker 2:Exactly Now that I've put Gooch into your brain, you're going to start seeing them. I can guarantee it. I've been through the store, I've had a look. You see them all the time they come in all the time, all the time Thanks so much I appreciate the time Been good fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and we'll speak again soon. All right, mate Cheers. Thank you. See, from building iconic skate brands, kerry Fisher's story is a classic in staying true to his roots and core values while also making a massive impact in a commercial space. You can find more details of this episode in the show notes. Be sure to check this out, as there is plenty of information and links to follow. You can follow Kerry Fisher on instagram at fish face, which is f1 sh f a c e. That's f1 sh f a c e for kerry fisher. You can also follow and support this show as well through the show notes, and the champion within is on instagram at the underscore champion within. Thanks for listening at the underscore champion within. Thanks for listening. Stay tuned and I'll be with you again soon.
