Future-Proofing Talent Teams for the Age of AI and Automation with Mike Joyner, Founding Partner at GBD Talent

What if your hiring process worked better because it trusted people more?

Mike Joyner, Founding Partner at Growth by Design Talent, sits down with Shannon on the first episode of Offer Accepted Live to discuss what recruiting looks like in an AI-powered, resource-tight environment. With experience building teams at Apple, Facebook, and Pinterest, Mike brings a real-world view on how talent teams need to adapt.

He explains how emerging roles like career guides and AI coaches support both hiring managers and candidates.

The conversation covers what automation frees up, where trust gets built, and why job seekers might already be ahead of some employers. Mike also shares the habits that help teams stay curious, avoid overwhelm, and create standout experiences, even as things keep changing.

Key takeaways:

1. AI lifts load, not purpose: Automating routine work frees recruiters to invest human energy where relationships win offers.
2. Clarity beats fear: Clear policies on data and tool use encourage staff to explore new methods without risking trust.
3. Roles are shifting: Expect teams organized by problem skill and career stage rather than old functional silos.
4. Trust scales impact: Authentic messages, logical processes and real empathy create candidate memories that fuel long-term hiring success.

Timestamps:
(00:00) Trust at the core of hiring

(00:25) Introductions

(00:51) Guest profile: Mike Joyner

(02:12) Why talent teams must adapt in the AI era

(03:04) Lean teams and higher stakes per hire

(04:31) Using AI to give every candidate an executive experience

(06:32) Making innovation a habit through timeboxing

(10:03) Agility and upskilling in hiring

(12:08) Future team structures in talent acquisition

(22:56) A trust-based model for hiring excellence

Transcript

Mike Joyner (00:00):

It's very easy to gravitate towards structure, process, things that are measurable, that you can put metrics around. Obviously this idea of alignment and continue to build in feedback loops. I think if you zoom out, ultimately hiring is the human judgment call. It's very emotional and it's kind of based on imperfect information on both sides. And so really at the core of all of what we do, it's just about building trust.

Show ID (00:25):

Welcome to Offer Accepted the podcast that elevates your recruiting game. I'm your host, Shannon Ogborn. Join us for conversations with talent leaders, executives, and more to uncover the secrets to building and leading successful talent acquisition teams. Gain valuable insights and actionable advice from analyzing cutting edge metrics to confidently claiming your seat at the table. Let's get started.

Shannon Ogborn (00:51):

Well, hello and welcome to another episode of Offer Accepted. I'm Shannon Ogborn, your host, and this episode is brought to you by Ashby, the all-in-one recruiting platform, empowering vicious teams from seed to IPO and beyond. Woo, thank you for the energy. I cannot be more excited. I have known Mike for several years now. Some may know him as one of the pillars of recruiting operations, so it's no surprise for him to join us at our first conference on the rack off stage. And the first episode of Offer Accepted Live. Mike, for those who don't know, is one of the founding partners at Growth by Design Talent and has spent his career helping high growth companies like Apple, Facebook, Pinterest, build really strong recruiting foundations. He's led organizations through IPOs, built teams from scratch, and now advises companies on everything from structured interviewing to ATS rollouts and a little bit personal about him when he's not doing that. He is playing soccer or chasing great coffee. Mike, thank you so much for joining us.

Mike Joyner (01:53):

Love the coffee.

Shannon Ogborn (01:56):

Well, I know that one of the things that we've talked a lot about is about talent teams evolving, especially in this AI era and beyond. I would love to hear a little bit of context about why you think TA teams must evolve.

Mike Joyner (02:12):

Well, first, thanks for having me. Congrats. Kudos to the team. This conference has been amazing, starting with just the context that we're all in. I mean, I think the feeling is like we're off to the races. We have this transformative technology and every company, every stage, every industry is trying to figure out how to boost their business and take advantage of that. And you have companies that are now accelerating faster than any company in history in terms of getting to hundreds of millions of dollars in a RR in months not years. And I think what that has also shown as well is that those teams are doing that and accomplishing that in with very lean teams. And so that's a much different kind of context in prior maybe waves that we've gone through in the past. And I think what that means for us in the talent space is maybe overall in that hiring for companies is maybe a little bit less than before.

(03:04):

And when I think about that, it's like every hire that now a company is making, there's this more at stake, right? It's this higher leverage and there's just more emphasis on really driving quality. And when I think about traditional recruiting, where we see that pop up all the time and we have part of this is our business is exec recruiting. It's such a curated experience. There's time and care taken because the stakes are so high. If you have a mishi where you are really calibrating on the role, you're making sure there's alignment across the team and on the candidate side, you're really taking care and time to understand what is the thing that's going to really progress someone in their career. Because if they make a wrong decision, then the stakes are even higher because it's much harder to hire or define that next executive role.

(03:47):

And what I'm optimistic about and what I hope for us is that wouldn't it be great if every candidate had that same experience? And what I hope that AI will unlock for all of us is that we're able to invest that time into things that just weren't financially feasible to do before. There aren't enough hours in the day to be able to do that for every candidate today. And so that's for teams, I think for individuals, I think we're all kind of just trying to struggle to keep up a little bit. And one of the things that you hear all the time is what's actually going to happen to certain roles and certain types of work in our space. And I guess now been around for long enough and done recruiting ops and people ops for long enough to see some roles come and go.

(04:31):

And I think if you think about every job as some collection of tasks, of course if a high percentage of those tasks are manual and things that can be automated, then those are probably going to give way to your AI teammates. In reflecting back to the jobs that I've seen come and go, there used to literally be someone's job to take physical resumes, scan them into a system quality check and make sure that that was true. And it's like, okay, that's not the best, but it was a useful and something necessary for you to actually drive your process. Same thing on the employee side with HR records and things like that. And so it's inevitably work that actually is kind of crappy. No one really wants to do it. You kind of have to endure doing it. And what I'm you're really excited about is seeing all of the net new roles that get created when you have this transformative technologies that come. Right? So in the onset of the internet now you have web designers, web developers with mobile app platforms, now you have app developers with cloud, you have now SaaS and enabling things like ASH V to exist. And in a lot of ways I owe a lot of this technical evolution to the creation of profession that I've grown to love in the recruiting ops space. And that's been enabled by the onset of data and systems and companies really needing to prioritize how do you make the most of those capabilities?

Shannon Ogborn (05:51):

And to one of your earlier points about companies spending so much time in the evolution needs to happen. Companies even one of our trends reports showed how much more time a company is spending interviewing now more than ever with less resources. And so evolving to those AI elements, you're going to have to make up the time somewhere. You have higher responsibilities with less people. And so how can you evolve to make that possible? And I think part of that is this innovation as a practice. So in order to evolve, you have to innovate. Can you tell me your thoughts on the concept of innovation as a practice?

Mike Joyner (06:32):

Yeah, I mean, first I think it's very easy to feel overwhelmed right now just with the amount of change, the amount of information coming at you with, I mean minds blown on all the product features just today on what now Ashby is going to be capable of doing. So for me, the thing that's allowed me to just get a little bit more grounded but then still lean into curiosity, lean into the learning is time boxing things in a way, just getting into the habit of creating space and space and time to actually learn and process. And so for me, those are Wednesday and Friday mornings. And so whatever that is for you, I think if it doesn't get scheduled, it's just very easy to get just kind of overwhelmed with the fire of the day or the task of the day. And so being able to take that time, get caught up on whatever the latest things are, and I think just getting hands on and just trying things. And so for me, where I start is trying to figure out what are the things that are just really frustrating that just eat up just a ton of time that it's kind of like there must be a better way. And

Shannon Ogborn (07:33):

Now we're a shark tank now.

Mike Joyner (07:34):

Oh my god, there are so many aha moments where if you just kind start to dabble, start to dip your toe, they're like, oh wow, that's possible. And I think another thing that we've started to do within our DBD team is kind of share what we're learning. And I think that's also an unlock. So just realizing that it may not be something that was obvious to you, but someone was able to discover some new insight like, oh my God, that's blowing my mind and I'm going to be doing that immediately. One of the things to that that can be challenging is I think there's this dynamic right now where CEOs and executives are seeing the massive opportunity that this new technology is unlocking into a business. And it's either the character to stick, they're mandating employees spend time, this is now part of your job, or just putting that as now a new value as an ic.

(08:24):

It can be very easy to get lost in that. I think there's some element of there's now more that's being asked of people than ever before, and I think there is a little bit of fear. It's like, okay, if I actually figure this out, then that's work that I'm now not going to be doing. And so I think companies that are doing, I think walking this line in a really intentional, meaningful way or helping navigate employees out of that fear. So I think ServiceNow is an example where I was just talking to a leader the other day where they now have internal models, they're able to stand up tier one support, and so their people ops and HR ops seemed like that was their job to respond to employee questions and inquiries and things, and that went away. But in a way to support that, they were also re-skilling those same people to become HR VPs and people partners. And if you could only afford to get that time and invest it somewhere else, I mean this is perfect example of where you can really add a lot more value into the business by kind of automating some of that stuff that really didn't add a ton of value in the first place.

Shannon Ogborn (09:24):

Yeah, I think on the note of innovation, agility is equally as important both as an individual and as a company. If you aren't agile and you're not using that in the form of innovation, you're going to have a lot of problems because you can only keep up. Most companies, especially SaaS companies have competitors that they're trying to keep up with or edge out. And if someone's doing something that you're not, you're already a little bit behind. And so having the agility, and I think hiring people with that skillset or mindset is actually going to be part of the future of hiring.

Mike Joyner (10:03):

I mean, some of the best people I've ever worked with are constantly trying to figure out how to get out of the mundane stuff and focus on the thing that's more meaningful. And inevitably, I mean portions of their job, they actually automate or even just stop doing because it's not high value, but they're spending times with the things that actually do. And those are the people that generally have this hockey stick kind of career to them because they're constantly learning into something bigger and more meaningful to the team.

Shannon Ogborn (10:30):

Absolutely. And one just I guess tangential comment to this is I've noticed in terms of people who are evolving with ai, I actually feel like job seekers have been evolving better with AI than some people that are in the job because there's a lot of jobs now that have been demanding this aspect of innovation within individuals. And I've noticed that a lot of folks who, and we know that the market's been tough in the last couple of years, a lot of the job seekers I know are just so freaking good at the AI stuff, and they are upskilling because they know what the market is looking for in terms of those skills. So that's an interesting trend that I've been seeing on the innovation piece.

Mike Joyner (11:10):

I think part of it too is that a lot of companies have not been super great at defining where the edges of the sandbox are. So if I'm an employee, it's like, okay, I don't want to do the wrong thing, so therefore I'm not going to risk it because you don't want to put data in the wrong place or you don't want to try this thing that actually is not okay. And so yeah, I think providing some level of clarity and we're talking to a number of teams that are trying to be as intentional about this, where there is kind of this ethos that's now a new direction for the company and trying to be thoughtful about how do you provide the operating principles and sort of the edges of the sandbox so people can start to experiment and feel okay about that.

Shannon Ogborn (11:47):

Definitely. One of the things you alluded to earlier was the shape of teams. Who's on these teams? What do the roles look like? How many should there be? I think what might be helpful for the folks here is to understand a little bit about what does the future talent team look like in your eyes, especially based off of all the companies you're working with.

Mike Joyner (12:08):

Yeah, I mean, no one's going to get it right. I think that's true. If you were to try to predict how things have evolved, it's interesting because I think some companies are already starting to show just signs of how this might sort of evolve. I think it's even just within the last week, Moderna just merged their IT and HR teams, ServiceNow, I mentioned their chief people officers, also their chief AI enablement officer. The chief people officer at Roblox is also their systems officer. And so the CIO reports into them. And so you can see a world where the people implications are very real, but obviously the technology aspect of that is both a technical thing but then also a cultural thing as well in terms of how that gets implemented and communicated across the company. I see the class of jobs that potentially evolve for talent teams and almost just two dimensions.

(13:02):

And so on the one dimension you have humans, people, us, and on the other dimension you have machines or your AI teammates and those probably even have names. And I think I'm even just thinking back, Clara was a scheduling thing back. Devon's now an automated coder that exists right now. So if you look at a couple of these dimensions, so human to human talent and hiring is ultimately an emotional decision. It's a big decision that people need to make and ultimately it kind of comes down to trust that it's going to be something that is going to further someone's career and that teams are going to feel like they have the person that's going to change the director of their teams. I think there are a couple of different roles that can come out of that that really optimize for the time that you get back.

(13:47):

I think one is this idea that, and I think we were talking about this in one of the earlier sessions around mobility. And so I think really thoughtful companies have really invested in people that can help employees discover career pathways. And even experienced people I think sometimes don't know that based on their experience, there actually unlocks in other paths that they could explore and it takes someone to coach them and learn about their motivations, learn about their skills and their backgrounds to open their eyes to those possibilities. And I think the same thing is true on the hiring manager side of great recruiters are advising managers. They understand the context of their teams and in some ways can guide them into thinking about maybe not the edge cases that could potentially be game changers for their teams. So that's this idea of a career guide.

(14:37):

The best recruiters I've ever worked with played the long game all the time, so they truly understand the best talent and it's really just about timing and the right opportunity coming up when they're ready to move. Another category is just I think something that is very real right now, which is there's a lot of fraud, there's a lot of stuff that people are having to get through. And so even if it's in a short term actual verification, someone's job to define how does that show up in a meaningful, thoughtful, intentional way through your process gets

Shannon Ogborn (15:06):

Without hurting the candidate experience. That is the big thing right now. There are some people who just don't really have a digital footprint, especially in roles, let's just say like CSO roles or more security based roles. A lot of those folks just don't really have a lot of online profiles for reasons that they just know so much about security. And so you might overshoot that and try to make an accusation that they're a fake candidate or fake profile and in fact it's just that they have a

Mike Joyner (15:35):

Load. Yeah, I do think it needs to be a thoughtful thing to that point. You still need to get the signal is this actually the person that we're interviewing and the person that showed up for the job is the person that we thought we were going to get a real thing? And hopefully that resolves itself. But I think having someone focused on figuring out what is the thoughtful design around how to software that. I think the other category is this idea of that curated experience. Like I was saying, if you can actually give everyone the exec recruiting experience, what would that look like? And it's probably you're going to have access to much better people. And so having people that actually it's their job to figure out how do you curate the experience for candidates through the process, I think can be a big unlock for teams.

(16:15):

And so that's the human to human side. I think the human to machine side or the human AI teammate side, I kind of think of three different categories of things and you can kind of start seeing some of this popping up now. And I think the question is does it sit within the people org or does it sit within this IT org or is it kind of a blend? I think you have your AI strategist that your architects, so these are people that have domain expertise and talent and people, but they really essentially become the product managers to figure out what is the whole ecosystem of available tools, how do those things interact with each other? What are the ethics and the policies and governance around these sorts of things? What's actually okay for us to use versus not? And then there are people that I think are just take those systems and then are just executing at scale.

(17:02):

And so I do think that these are people that really understand what is their workflow within recruiting, but then can actually extend because these agents can work 24 hours a day. So there are certainly lower complexity roles, higher volume that could be fairly automated, but you need someone at the wheel making sure that that's tuned to the right thing. And I think that the other category is this idea of AI coaches, and I think this is where you have people that have been in the talent space for a really long time and effectively you have probably the smartest teammate that you've ever had, but they have no expertise in your domain or how certain teams or certain roles need to optimize for and it's just a continual process. I was actually reminded of this. We had someone recently join our team, very bright, very capable, but was a duty tech and new to recruiting and just coming in and out of me is that was a word salad. Can you explain to me what actually just happened? And I think very similarly, these general models are very capable, but figuring out how do you actually tune that for not just recruiting overall but then specifically for the roles that you're trying to hire for and what great looks like. And I think that's going to come from people that have been in the space for a long time.

Shannon Ogborn (18:12):

That actually brings up a question around the subject matter expertise and more generalist. I know that we previously talked about skills that will matter, I guess kind of a brief fire off our XX going to get more niche or more broad.

Mike Joyner (18:29):

Yeah, I've kind of heard the back and forth of this debate. I kind of see that there's a possibility that rather than specialized around functions, you get specialized around career stages. So meaning people that are at a certain point in their career, maybe a certain sort of level expectation because part of your role on the talent side is really trying to figure out where does this person fit within our organization? And I think the challenge that we've had thus far is kind of like, okay, well they didn't fit for this role, but then you had no context of this other role maybe is the perfect fit. And I think if you had someone who is constantly curating these certain pools of talent but then have broader context across the entire organization, you are much more likely to be able to find maybe dots that weren't obvious that you can connect both from the business perspective as well as on the candidate side.

Shannon Ogborn (19:20):

There's a lot of missed opportunities in, okay, we're rejecting this candidate for this role, but not a lot of investigation goes into could they be great for another role that we just don't have purview?

Mike Joyner (19:31):

And I've been at earlier stage startups in the larger enterprises and you can kind of see that progression happen. It's like in the earlier stages, everyone's tuned for the company and everyone's aware of all the different roles and it's very, I guess more free in terms of how candidates get shared across. My hope is that there's some unlocks that can happen when you're able to automate some of, again, you just have more time to be more connected into other parts of the business versus today where a decent part of the job just kind of gets sucked into just day-to-day stuff that doesn't necessarily add a ton of value.

Shannon Ogborn (20:07):

Definitely. Well, we are on the ops stage, so I think that probably folks are wondering what does this mean for ops and what action plan can ops take?

Mike Joyner (20:19):

I mean, if I think about the makeup of a lot of ops people, I mean they're builders. They just love to kind of get in there and craft great experiences. They love getting their hands dirty in technology, they love new things. But again, kind of back to the overwhelm because I also know that there's just a real reality that also being in any operations role and in any function your day can get blown up in a second. It's like you might have a perfect plan for your day, and the thing that happens is you just have to focus on getting it over the finish line. And again, I think my advice would be a couple of things. One is one thing that can help shortcut to some of these insights is just following great people that are already aggregating a lot of this knowledge together.

(21:00):

And so for me, thinking about some of those people, there's obviously Hung Lee with the Brain Food podcast is obviously this podcast which has a ton of new insights. Sarah Tll is an investor and partner at Benchmark. She does an amazing job of framing markets and how that fits. Lenny's podcast is one that I follow, which is really geared towards product and product leaders, but there's so many corollaries over to talent and a hundred percent of the time I walk away with some new insight. And then I think just this idea of, I can't remember who said this first, but I love this idea of just increasing your exposure time because I think that just has compounding effects in terms of your learning. If you just can't make it a habit every day or every couple days putting in a handful of minutes or hours into just practicing and getting your hands in there, you're just going to be way more prepared than a large majority of people. And I think the reality is today there's not really any experts. It

Shannon Ogborn (21:57):

Could be one of you, it could be.

Mike Joyner (21:58):

And so it doesn't take a lot to get you into that space. And I think that the way I've seen a lot of this play out over time is some of the most successful sourcers that I've ever seen, they were just very early in trying to figure out Boolean search. They were just the masters of that. And then some just learn lightweight scripting and coding and then they can generate candidate lists and qualified lists and they're like a hundred thousand x more productive than people. And it's not like they're any smarter, but they got to,

Shannon Ogborn (22:28):

Well, I think it's no complacency

Mike Joyner (22:30):

Exactly. They're just curious enough to learn. And I think they were just frustrated with the inefficiency of things. And I think now what's great is you don't have to learn how to code or script. Everyone has equal access to being able to unlock that potential.

Shannon Ogborn (22:43):

Definitely. A lot of folks here have heard hiring excellence repeated a couple of times in a lot of the sessions we've done both here and upstairs. So we always love to ask our guests, when you hear hiring excellence, what does that mean to you?

Mike Joyner (22:56):

Yes, okay. So as a recruiting ops person, I think it's very easy to gravitate towards structure, process, things that are measurable that you can put metrics around. Obviously this idea of alignment and continue to build in feedback loops. I think if you kind of zoom out, ultimately hiring is the human judgment call. It's very emotional and it's kind of based on imperfect information on both sides. And so really at the core of all of what we do, it's just about building trust. And so then how do you do that? And so to borrow a framework from Francis Fry, so she's the person that went into Uber during it's pretty gnarly times, like they broken trust with customers, they broken trust with employees and investors. And she introduced this framework that I love and it's called the trust triangle. And the elements of building trust are authenticity. Is it logical? And then is your empathy directed towards me? And so if you think about how that applies to excellent recruiting practices and teams, authenticity, are you able to clearly articulate what is it like to work at your company? What are the things that you actually value? How do decisions get made? And I think the companies that are exceptional at this are so clear at why you should not work at their company.

Shannon Ogborn (24:08):

We literally have a section of our job postings that say, why you should not have this job. Why wouldn't you want this job?

Mike Joyner (24:16):

That is so great for candidates to know, okay, that's great. Sign me up or Yep, nope, that's not for me. And so if you think about a Netflix and a Google and a meta and a more recent Coinbase taking a very clear stance, and it's definitely not for everyone. It's true to them and what they value. And I think that's the thing that I think makes the process really efficient. More like this dog whistle recruiting where it's like you're attracting the right people and they're the ones that are kind of seeing it. So that's authenticity. And then I think on the logic side, it's like, okay, does it make sense? Right, okay, on the hiring team side,

(24:51):

Harder than you think. Harder than you think. So if you're on the hiring team, it's like, okay, I understand why we need this role. I understand my focus area, what I'm trying to assess for, I understand what we're prioritizing here. And then if you're a candidate, you just have transparency, what is the process going to be run? How is that decision going to get made? And then if you don't get the job, I think it's more like, okay, I'm disappointed. But I understand, and I think I'm on this last dimension of empathy. I think this is so important. And it's something else that some great folks that I've worked with, it's this concept of caring is free. So when you talk about a recruiting process, a lot of people think about the tooling and all these investments, but at the core it's have you taken the time to as a recruiter to really understand the dynamics that a hiring manager is having to solve for? There could be political things going on within the team, there could be pressure, they need to ship things sooner than later and it's all falling on them. And then on the candidate side, have you really taken the time to understand what is the true motivation that a candidate's trying to solve for the next step in their career? And the really great recruiters take those extra moments to really get that insight and to kind of connect maybe dots that weren't obvious?

Shannon Ogborn (26:04):

The thing that I had noticed over being an individual contributor recruiter over several years was there were recruiters who could just turn through candidates and they'd hire people and they'd hire people and they'd hire people, but they would never hire a rejection ever again. Whereas people who really cared about the candidate and they cared that they didn't get their dream job this time, but they really wanted them to get it next time, those people had to work less hard, honestly, long-term because people knew that they cared about them and they trusted them not only at the company they were at, but at a future company. They would look up the recruiter and say, Hey, I see you move to such and such. I think this is a great company. Could you get me in touch with someone for this role? And then they would hire them and the care, it shouldn't be for that reason, but I think it does actually have really strong long tail impacts on your work as a talent professional.

Mike Joyner (27:02):

It's so true. I mean, just being kind to people goes a long way and you see it over and over again. Hiring managers remember the great recruiters and they take them with them. And then I think candidates are very much the same. Unfortunately, I think there are maybe more bad experiences than great and exceptional ones. And so the exceptional ones really stand out. And when those candidates are ready to make a move, they know who to be in touch with. And I think more importantly, if that recruiter goes to another company, then that may be a no-name brand company or it maybe hasn't broken out or it's still in self, and they have the relationship and the trust to be able to contact these people that otherwise would not return their call or their outreach.

Shannon Ogborn (27:40):

They don't yet trust the company, but they trust you. And if the company's hired you, they think, okay, well if they've hired this person, I feel like I can trust the company because this person is there

Mike Joyner (27:51):

Advocating

Shannon Ogborn (27:52):

For me. Well, we are at our last question here, especially with your tenure in the space, both in-house and your work with GBD, I would love to hear what is your recruiting hot take?

Mike Joyner (28:05):

So I kind of hate this line that keeps going around our community, which is like recruiters aren't going to be replaced, but recruiters not using

(28:12):

AI are going to be replaced. And I think, okay, so maybe if we're a couple months into chat, we're several years in now, and to me, when you have a transformative technology, it's like touching every aspect of society, our personal lives, our working lives, it's just kind of like table's sake. So if you take your job and profession seriously, it's something that you're spending time doing. And as you mentioned, I play a lot of soccer. And so to me it's like the equivalent of saying, okay, soccer players aren't going to be replaced, but soccer players without cleats are going to be replaced. It's kind of like, sure, yeah, it's pretty obvious. If you are wanting to be competitive, you want to win, you take the tools that are available to you and you lace up and get after it. And I think the thing there is back to the individuals that are really leaning into the curiosity, I think are essentially creating an unfair advantage for them. And then over time things become available to everyone. It becomes much more obvious. Maybe it gets productized into products like Ashby, but I think right now it's this moment in time where if you're really leaning into that learning, you're creating a ton of advantage for yourself to that hockey stick career growth that I think I've seen a bunch of people that in these moments in time, are really taking advantage of the new capabilities.

Shannon Ogborn (29:27):

And I think there's several things going on in the market now. Some is AI driven, some is economy market driven, that there might be less roles. So there may be people in any role that are moved into different capacities. But as far as recruiters go, you can have all the tools in the world and you could have a tool that runs your process A to Z, but humans connect with humans to join a company that they work with humans. So not having any of that in the process, the role will evolve, but doing rid of entirely, I think is a misguided, to your point, it doesn't quite make sense to

Mike Joyner (30:10):

Me. I mean, almost a hundred percent of the time, if you ask someone, what was the memorable thing about your experience at a company?

Shannon Ogborn (30:16):

It was the video interview.

Mike Joyner (30:18):

It is the video interview. It's the video interview. I mean, inevitably there are big significant milestones of work that you kind of worked really hard to ship, but ultimately it's the relationships that you had and the people that you had the opportunity to really get to know. And I don't think that's going to change.

Shannon Ogborn (30:33):

Completely agree with you. Well, I think we are coming up on our time. Where should people go to learn more about you and your work?

Mike Joyner (30:41):

LinkedIn, mike@gbdtalent.com and gbdtalent.com is our website if you want to kind of check out what we do. So thanks for having me.

Shannon Ogborn (30:51):

Amazing. Well, Mike, can't thank you enough for joining us on our first live episode of Offer Accepted super stoked that we've gotten to this point and hope people will give you a follow because you got lots of interesting things. Say follow the GBD newsletter.

Mike Joyner (31:05):

Yes sir. Newsletter,

Shannon Ogborn (31:06):

That's another thing. Thank you all for joining us, and we'll see you next time.

Mike Joyner (31:09):

Thanks.

Show ID (31:11):

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