More Than Lunch: Food as a Classroom Tool

What does it really take to make food education for all more than just a great idea? In this lively, laugh‑filled episode recorded at the Farm to Cafeteria Conference in Albuquerque, the Farm to School Podcast crew digs into how food can be a powerful lens for learning—without becoming “one more thing” for schools. Joined by all‑star thought partners Alex DeSorbo‑Quinn of Pilot Light and Erica Curry of Row by Row, the conversation explores joy, standards, gardens, cafeterias, culture, and creativity—and why there’s no one‑size‑fits‑all recipe for teaching kids about food. Come chew on big ideas, practical examples, and a shared belief that learning through food can help students (and teachers) thrive.

Transcript

More than Lunch: Food as a Classroom Tool - Transcript

What does it really take to make food education for all more than just a great idea? In this lively, laugh‑filled episode recorded at the Farm to Cafeteria Conference in Albuquerque, the Farm to School Podcast crew digs into how food can be a powerful lens for learning—without becoming “one more thing” for schools. Joined by all‑star thought partners Alex DeSorbo‑Quinn of Pilot Light and Erica Curry of Row by Row, the conversation explores joy, standards, gardens, cafeterias, culture, and creativity—and why there’s no one‑size‑fits‑all recipe for teaching kids about food. Come chew on big ideas, practical examples, and a shared belief that learning through food can help students (and teachers) thrive.

00:00:04 Rick

Welcome to the Farm to School Podcast, where you will hear stories how youth thrive and farmers prosper… And I've been pushing the wrong button. There we go. It's quiet now… When we learn how to grow, cook, and eat delicious, nutritious foods across in schools.

00:00:19 Michelle

This is our third time trying to do this intro. Are we really just going with it?

00:00:22 Rick

Yes, we are. It's good enough. Anyway, across the country and the world. Hi, everybody. I'm Rick.

00:00:28 Michelle

And I'm Michelle. And you may have heard once or twice that we are so psyched that in the state of Oregon, we spent years coming up with our next 10-year plan, which is a lot to do with diverse public-private partnerships. and we have a whole podcast on that Rick will link to. Also to tee this up, we're talking about food.

00:00:50 Rick

Which one is that I got a link to? We have a lot of podcasts.

00:00:55 Michelle

Oh, the one about how we came up with developing A statewide plan.

00:00:59 Rick

Oh, right, yeah, got it.

00:01:01 Michelle

Because I was there. As you know, you develop plans, right, in our workplace, maybe our lives, but then you have to do the plan. And one thing that is super aspirational about Oregon's approach is we put things in the plan that everyone said needs to happen, but they aren't currently in people's work plans. And they're not necessarily in people's position description. So we are now in the process, at the time of this recording, it's April 23rd, 2026. And we, it'll air at a different date, but at this point in time, we are really thinking about how do you actually execute on an ambitious aspirational goals. So one of them, and so please Google up farm to school counts. That'll be in the show notes as well. We publicly put out our statewide plan and how we're measuring progress towards it. But the one goal area we want to talk about today that we're excited about, we have special guests for this podcast, is food education for all. So in Oregon, I'm actually going to read this, but it's worth it, that we have agreed that our goal is that every student from early childhood education to K-12 in Oregon has access to experiential learning about food and agriculture that supports whole child development and understanding of career options.

00:02:31 Rick

Yeah. And imagine our surprise. We were at the Farm to Cafeteria conference in Albuquerque. I say we, and it was Michelle. Michelle and co-host, guest co-host, Christy Sherding with The Henry Ford. Thank you, Christy. But they were there and they interviewed Erica Curry from Seattle. She's a Farm to School consultant.

00:02:53 Michelle

Yeah, with Row by Row.

00:02:54 Rick

Row by Row. And then Alex DeSorbo Quinn, Is it no, Alex? Is that right? With Pilot Light, and she's out of Chicago. Now, imagine that. I have right in front of me, as you can clearly see this publication by them, and it's their school impact, and I'll link this in the show notes too, but it's like right front and center, the main title of the whole thing is Food Education for All. And I'm like, did they get.. Did we get that from them? Did they get that from us? So it's like independently is so great when two minds are thinking alight and that's their focus and this is one of our five main goals.

00:03:34 Michelle

Yeah, so we are partnering with these amazing thought partners and that's what we started exploring with them here. So enjoy.

00:03:42 Rick

Enjoy. See you on the other side.

00:03:47 Michelle

So we're at the 2025 Farm to Cafeteria Conference in the amazing Albuquerque, New Mexico. And this is like an all-star slaying crew. Did I use that word right?

00:04:01 Christy Sherding

Yeah, they're going to slay the day and the podcast with us.

00:04:04 Michelle

Slay the podcast.

00:04:06 Christy Sherding

It's what all the kids are saying these days.

00:04:08 Michelle

I didn't know this. We're laughing.

00:04:09 Alex Desorbo-Quinn

Yeah, no, I'm learning.

00:04:11 Erica Curry

We're slaying, obviously.

00:04:13 Michelle

What do your kids say?

00:04:15 Alex Desorbo-Quinn

I mean, right now, 6, 7. Mid. Mid is a big one.Everything I cook. My son's like, I'm like, how was it? My nine-year-old? He's like, it was mid.

00:04:24 Erica Curry

Whoa, I haven't heard that. We both have nine-year-olds.

00:04:26 Alex Desorbo-Quinn

MID. Yeah, mid.

00:04:29 Michelle

And for our listeners, who are our guests here?

00:04:32 Christy Sherding

Oh, yes, we should. Who are you?

00:04:35 Alex Desorbo-Quinn

Hi, I'm Alex Desorbo-Quinn. I'm executive director of Pilot Light and very excited to be with you and with Erica, because we haven't seen each other in years. I haven't just figured it out, over 5 years.

00:04:45 Erica Curry

That's what happens at these events. I'm Erica Curry. I am in the farm to school world as a consultant through Row by Row.

00:04:53 Michelle

And in the state of Oregon, I'm sure many of our listeners have heard this a million times and you will continue to, but we have had this extensive visioning process and have coalesced around 5 goal areas that we are hyper-focused on for the next decade. And one of them is food education for all. which is actually the title of Pilot Lights publication. And all things education.

00:05:20 Alex Desorbo-Quinn

We can all unite around it.

00:05:21 Christy Sherding

It's great minds, think alike.

00:05:22 Michelle

That's what I thought. And one of my go-to people for education and thinking it through is Erica Curry. And I just thought, oh, could I get you 2 together? Can we talk about it?

00:05:30 Alex Desorbo-Quinn

It's serendipitous that we both showed up at the same time.

00:05:33 Michelle

So what do we do? What's happening in food education for all? Where are we going? What are we doing?

00:05:38 Alex Desorbo-Quinn

Well, Erica and I were just talking about food education standards. And one of the challenges that we faced early on at Pilot Light was, and I'm sure most folks in the field, just there wasn't a great definition of food education. So we hosted a summit in 2018 and we brought all different folks from disciplines and education and food and child development together to map it out. What are, you know, how do we define food education in a really comprehensive way? Like what are all the ways in which food connects to our lives? What are the knowledge and skills that students now pre-K through 12 need to have informed, healthy relationships with food. And we ultimately publish these seven standards, which we can share with you for your listeners. But they are a great definition for all of us in terms of like all the ways in which food shows up in our lives, from how it connects to our culture and our history and our identity, to what we should learn about, and ask about where it comes from. How the impact of our choices on our health and the environment, and then what we can do about it. How does that shape our decisions? How can we advocate for a better food system? And we were just chatting about what that looks like, as you know, how we can partner with other organizations in agencies to make those standards, really establish them as a definition for food education, but also something that can support teachers with implementation in classrooms and give them that roadmap so that they can tie it to core content and use food education to support their goals.

00:07:22 Erica Curry

And I love thinking about the standards and sort of the definition of food education, I think that's like going up even more level. Food education for all, so what is food education? If we want it for all. The basic idea of everyone, but we're thinking about kiddos often, knowing how to plant, grow, harvest, cook, and eat food. Most basic level, have that food bring joy to our students or kids in our lives and understand how that relates to their lives and should be something that is honored if it has to do with their culture, highlighting recipes that maybe were passed down through families, something that is specific to your region. It's so fantastic to be here in New Mexico and to see all there was a workshop yesterday on corn. And how you can teach about corn, in a myriad of ways. So what is food to you? How do you value it? And what, whether you're 90 years old or whether you're three years old and understanding the process of how it gets into our bodies and can bring us joy.

00:08:27 Michelle

So are we talking food as a lens for other subjects or are we talking food as the focus of the education?

00:08:36 Alex Desorbo-Quinn

I think you can do both. We work with our teachers to support them in teaching through food. So they're engaging their students in core content, math, science, and social studies. We've had teachers across any subject. We have a lot of special ed teachers. This year we have a music teacher. So it's just so cool to see how food can be a mode of experiential learning. And kids are excited and engaged because everybody connects to food and everybody finds joy in food. And that supports Teachers and their goals, but at the same time, kids can be learning about food, and we're in an environment where strategies like that are really important, because, at least as of... last year, students were receiving on average about 8 hours of nutrition education. But for something that we do and engage with every day, it really should be part of every child's learning experience. And that's really the only way that we're going to create change. So supporting teachers who are in the school buildings and bringing that into their classrooms, for us at Pilot Light, that's been a great strategy. But there's also ways in which you can support others in those school communities with.. of implementing food education in schools to connect to those goals. Different entry points. I think that's the other piece too. So it's this concept of food education is going to resonate with different people in different ways. And that again, we're at a conference. There are so many different people here with so many different perspectives of what farm to school is, what food education is. It might look like garden-based education. It might look like planting a tomato to some kids. With other folks, it's learning a recipe. It's developing a recipe and cooking with students, which is one of the most amazing parts of the pilot light program. With others, it's teaching science, you know, STEM education. I was just in a workshop. We were talking about teaching science and having that. But the biggest piece, I think, when you're thinking about teachers and you're thinking about public schools is

not having food education be an add-on to what is already happening. We know there's so many requirements within public education, and it's a tough nut to crack, right, public schools. How can we look at what's already being taught in the curriculum, national mandates, standards, state standards, district, and say, oh, great, you have social studies. Let's look at how we can teach that through food. We can teach that through growing food, gardening, science, whatever it might be.

00:10:58 Christy Sherding

Yeah.

00:10:59 Michelle

Or social emotional learning.

00:11:00 Erica Curry

Social emotional learning. Yeah. Which we know is a huge part, particularly post COVID and thinking about the state of the world that a lot of schools, mental health, mindfulness, thinking about, again, that joy piece, good education and joy.

00:11:17 Alex Desorbo-Quinn

One component in hearing you speak about, Erica, all the different ways in which food, the different concepts that we teach kids around food education, there was no element of that where you're like, oh, we're teaching them about calories, or we're teaching them the difference between Christian education. We're telling them what to eat. And I think that's the beauty of food education, this idea of food neutrality and not assigning any moral value to food choices and really through food education, we can emphasize inquiry and curiosity. And everybody, you're not always going to make the healthy choice every day and that's okay in messaging that to our kids.

00:11:59 Erica Curry

And what can students control within their lives? So going back to the social, emotional learning and leadership and honoring student voice is another big piece of food education. Kids are in cafeteria environments. They have the social piece of learning and how you can look at that space, how you can think about where they're eating food, how can that be a place where their voice is being honored and their, personal emotional experience is also being reflected. And that's, I think there's a lot of work, particularly in this space with farm to school around thinking, you know, gardens, cafeteria, classroom, all of these environments, how can we have these environments be joyful, how these environments can connect to food and how we can elevate students' perspectives of what is important to them with their culture, their experiences.

00:12:45 Alex Desorbo-Quinn

Yeah, and when they go home, every kid has different access and different experiences and making it so when they go home or when they go to a grocery store or wherever they're finding food that they don't experience any shame or stigma in that.

00:12:59 Christy Sherding

And acknowledging that there's no one-size-fits-all or right solution to it. It's just meeting people where they're at.

00:13:06 Alex Desorbo-Quinn

I love that.

00:13:08 Michelle

So related to, I'm gonna get nuts and bolts, like…

00:13:12 Christy Sherding

Bring it, Michelle, Bring it.

00:13:14 Michelle

How do we do it? We're going to slay this question.

00:13:17 Christy Sherding

Four letter word of the day. The good one.

00:13:20 Michelle

I was like, is it SLA? Oh, I was thinking ING. It's like SLA.

00:13:24 Christy Sherding

It is almost Christmas.

00:13:25 Michelle

AY. The, but it's like for institutionalizing, are you saying standards? is any state adopting standards? Are they embedding? Like, what's some bright spots where this is happening?

00:13:42 Alex Desorbo-Quinn

There are some amazing bright spots out there. New York City. New York City has a commitment to food and climate education. And they took the food education standards and- That pilot light. Yep, pilot lights, food education standards. And we worked with teams of teachers in New York City to build out their own competencies and customize them for New York City. And I think it's just amazing that they're guiding the work that teachers are doing. There's, I think that the idea of adoption with standards, to your point, can be a little scary and a little, you know, like we're not going to touch that, but there's other ways that we can bring it through.

00:14:18 Erica Curry

And wellness policies, I think if you're thinking about institutionalizing food education, wellness policies are, you know, they need to be revised continually at the district at the school level. How can food education be a part of that, thinking holistically about health? In Oregon, Michelle, you and I were working on some social emotional learning things. And there's a roadmap, a social emotional learning roadmap for education in Oregon that can be used to help support, you know, and think about food education as a means of promoting social emotional learning in the classroom and the garden, garden-based education too.

00:14:52 Michelle

I want to demystify those more. When you say Pilot Light works with New York City to do this, what do you actually do?

00:15:01 Alex Desorbo-Quinn

Sure. So, I mean, it happens at multiple levels. I think it's really important to work with states or cities and to explore how we can make food education standards the standard and what strategies we can look at to make those, first of all, to amplify them, but also to explore how we can institutionalize them. But it also happens at the ground level. It's really important to be partnering with teachers, partnering with students, partnering with communities to build those proof points and those stories. So in New York City, we have about 120 teachers who have brought these standards into their classrooms and used them to connect to core content. And we have incredible results around that. We have results that speak to, first of all, around the cafeteria and how Food education can be a vehicle for shaping relationships with school food professionals and building a culture of food education. But we also have proof points from students who are bringing this home to their families and sharing that back with their teachers. And we have teachers who are reinvigorated by it in their practice of teaching and learning in the classroom. And they're finding that food does bring that joy to their classroom and that that brings excitement to them to be delivering this to their students. And when we can share those stories at the policy level or with district leadership, when they're seeing their teachers excited by this and energized, and they're seeing teachers who have been in the classroom for 20 or 25 years saying, this has changed the game for me, that's a really important story to tell because there are real challenges right now across the country with teacher retention and engagement and food education and food as experiential learning can be a really great strategy to support teachers.

00:16:54 Michelle

And so do you have policy briefs or impact statements or how do you share those stories?

00:17:02 Erica Curry

I think really telling the story of what is happening on a practical level. So here's an example. I'm working with a district right now. They're looking at mapping from K through 12. food education at the district level to map that with curriculum. So that might mean that in second grade, they have a science curriculum that relates to seeds and plants. Let's look at how we can take that process. They're literally growing seeds, you know, in the classroom and they've got like these science kits.

00:17:29 Christy Sherding

Fun. I want to do that.

00:17:30 Erica Curry

Yes. So squash. Let's take the squash seed. Let's plant that in the school garden. Kids are helping the plant, the squash seed grow, then they're harvesting it in the fall. The squash is then harvested. It's put into the school food through squash soup. That is a part of the harvest festival for the whole community. So that it starts with the curriculum and then it's integrated into the school a little bit, you know, more fully. Another example is in 3rd grade, time immemorial is a really important part of their standard and their education. How can food education be mapped into that? There's a potato in Washington state where I live called the Makah Ozette Potato. Very rich history to this with the indigenous communities with the, you know, in our state in particular. So we actually have a potato. There's a whole, look it up. It's a really cool potato. 

00:18:19 Michelle

We'll put a link in our show.

00:18:20 Erica Curry

Makah Ozette Potato. 

00:18:21 Michelle

I'm happy to do that. Because it's a personal interest of Rick Sherman.

00:18:25 Erica Curry

Is it really?

00:18:26 Michelle

Yeah, that's a fun fact. You'll learn more.

00:18:28 Erica Curry

Oh my gosh, I had no idea. But we planted that in the school garden, and then the kids are harvesting that, but they're learning about the history of, their community as well through a potato.

00:18:37 Christy Sherding

It's specific to them, right? So again, not one-size-fits-all, because we're not going to find that potato in Michigan or Illinois per se.

00:18:45 Alex Desorbo-Quinn

And what you're touching on, it's state by state. And you know, we're, it's interesting to see how this comes to life in different regions and how we can map food education to support teachers' goals, district goals.

00:18:59 Erica Curry

And I want to highlight CTE, career technical education. Huge entry point for food education. When I was talking about mapping that from K to 12, we're also working in the high school within this district. Students are taking field trips to a local farm to learn about growing food. That is a horticultural credit through career technical education that the students are then getting. And these are high school age. So really looking K-12 in public schools for opportunities for food education, you can map that all the way across.

00:19:28 Christy Sherding

I love listening to you guys talk, Michelle. I'm just like, keep going, keep going.

00:19:33 Michelle

I'm like, how do I do this? What do I do? Because we came up with, in Oregon, I know I'm so Oregon-centric, but a model farm to school language for state wellness policies. And so we put it out there and some districts adopt it, some don't. I think that's when I'm finally realizing is like, there is no one-size-fits-all. I'm always looking for the solution, but maybe there's no one solution.

00:20:00 Alex Desorbo-Quinn

Coming back to how this supports the district, how this supports them in their goals. And I think that's something that we could do better at. We could collect more data around that. We could have more stories around that because we see it. And we have so many anecdotes around it, but how can we connect to, I mean, we've talked to a number of districts who are like, we just care about our math and reading scores and that's it. And we really have to convey that food education, it's a critical component of supporting the whole child, but it can also support students in academics and give them experiences that they'll take with them and they'll retain what they're learning. 

00:20:39 Erica Curry

And that goes back to meeting them where they're at, the place-based approach. If they, what is important to you? Is it math? Is it science? Is it social emotional learning? You know, is it, are you in the middle of revising your wellness policy? And go, you know, and sometimes tools are gonna be used that, you know, these best practices around wellness policy in farm to school, and sometimes not. I'm working with a district right now, we are revising the wellness policy.  Slow Food has a wonderful wellness, like they came out with a wellness policy toolkit. They wanted to have the model that was available in that state, in within their district. They just felt more comfortable. Or looking at local districts that had other sample policies, fine. That's great. Let's go with that. Let's see how we can have that, you know, be our tool. Meeting them where their comfort level was, but then helping that to move the needle, however they're, you know, so that they have that ownership. I think it's important for schools to feel that it is their program. Food education is something that they do, not something that has been put upon them. that cultural piece where it's integrated into the culture of the district, into the culture of the school. One school I work with, sunflowers. It just became something that was planted year after year because the location of the school garden in that actual school, it worked. It was a sunny, dry place. They have sunflowers painted now as murals inside the school.

00:21:52 Christy Sherding

It's their jam. It's their thing.

00:21:54 Erica Curry

It's their jam. It's on their t-shirt. It's part of their school pride. And that makes that connection for them then into, and we give away sunflower seeds at the.

00:22:02 Christy Sherding

And the students have ownership, the parents, the staff.

00:22:05 Erica Curry

They're making sunflower murals that they're painting and sending home. That is something that they took on rather than, here, this is what you should do.

00:22:12 Christy Sherding

You're force feeding it to them.

00:22:14 Alex Desorbo-Quinn

That's hard to do, but finding those entry points, you mentioned CTE. We've done a lot with the FFVP, the Fresh Fruit and Vegetable Program, which is a USDA program. It's boxes of fresh produce delivered into classrooms. 2.7 million students receive these boxes in their classrooms and some of them up to four times a week, nationally. It's in the farm bill and a lot of teachers, school, food service, district leadership, they secure this program and then pass it along to teachers. And a lot of times teachers are like, no, like this is just too much. It's like one more thing.

00:22:50 Erica Curry

Pilot Light is a great program in that lever.

00:22:52 Alex Desorbo-Quinn

Yeah, called Snack Time Explorers, and you're doing another podcast later where you'll touch on it..  There's a strong social-emotional learning component, but it's this great entry point, and it gives teachers a taste of it. You know, they're already getting these boxes of food. How can they make it available use of their instructional time. And we've seen districts where their school food leadership has taken the reports that we've shared back with them to say, this is the impact in your district. This is what this program is doing for your teachers and your students. And then they're sharing those reports with their boards. And it's a success for them. It's something they want to celebrate. But to your point, finding ways to bring this in to give them those stories and to celebrate it and lift it up. 

00:23:41 Erica Curry

Low barrier, applied, it's place-based. Food education is place-based. That's the last thing I'll say. It is reflecting the values of the community, the culture, and what, you know, is driving them individually as students, as teachers, what's motivating them, and then celebrating that.

00:23:55 Alex Desorbo-Quinn

Yeah, and food education for all, you can't argue with it. I don't, you know, I don't think anybody out there is… It's a very non-controversial statement. We should learn about food in America. American students are not, largely.And it's just, to your point, finding ways to lift it up in districts and local communities, thinking about how we identify those champions, whether it's the teacher, the district, the larger community, and how we can use those stories to garner more support at whatever the state level, whatever level you're looking to do that. But once people bring it in, they see the impact. And I think at the end of the day, we see it a lot for teachers in particular, but when they see their students talking about food, engaging with food, when they see their students connecting to each other through food, bringing that home to their families, it's something that they see that impact and they want to keep doing it. And it's just about how all of us at this conference, all of this community, how we can work together to just keep building our causeway and getting more people involved and generating more of those stories.

00:25:09 Christy Sherding

Well, this has been super wonderful talking to two trailblazers and... wonderful women in this space that are really moving the needle and being so innovative. Speaking of food, though, I think.

00:25:21 Michelle

I was going to say, do you ladies want to..?

00:25:23 Erica Curry

To go for lunch? Let's go have some joy together.

00:25:26 Christy Sherding

Yes, let's share a meal.

00:25:28 Alex Desorbo-Quinn

Yeah, love to do it.

00:25:29 Michelle

Thank you for sharing your story.

00:25:31 Alex Desorbo-Quinn

Thank you for having us.

00:25:32 Erica Curry

So fun.

00:25:34 Michelle

That was an unexpected conversation and I really appreciate it because really this is what it takes to chew on if we're going to have food education for all. It means it looks different.

00:25:44 Rick

Chew on, I get it.

00:25:45 Michelle

I get it, right? The pun was intended. Food education for all is different for everybody. And we'd really like to thank you so much for listening today. And thank you, Christy Sherding from the Henry Ford for being a very special guest co-host.

00:26:00 Rick

Yeah, Farm to School was written, directed, and produced by Rick Sherman and Michelle Markeston with production support from the amazing Leanne Locker and the incredible Lauren Toby, sorry Lauren, of Oregon State University. The podcast was made possible in part by a grant from the United States Department of Agriculture.

00:26:18 Michelle

And the content and ideas of the Farm to School podcast do not necessarily reflect the opinions of Oregon State University or the United States Department of Ag.

00:26:26 Rick

Do you want to learn more about Farm to School?

00:26:29 Michelle

Sure, who doesn't?

00:26:30 Rick

Check out more other episodes, show notes, contact information, and much more by searching Farm to School podcast OSU.

00:26:37 Michelle

You know, you can just put in your browser Farm to School podcast anymore. We used to not have our own website, but we do now. We're like profesh. All right, check it out then, because we want to hear from you.

00:26:48 Rick

If you want to hear from you, give us an idea for show notes and say hi.

00:26:53 Michelle

Bye everyone.

00:26:54 Rick

Thank you. Bye.