Navigating Change as We Age: A Coaching Conversation with Dr. Annika

In this conversation, Dr. Dwayne engages with stress expert Dr. Annika (https://askdrannika.com) as she reflects on her life experiences, aspirations, and the challenges of navigating the second half of her life. They discuss the importance of embracing things outside of our control, being honest about what truly brings joy, and celebrating one's proven ability to effect change in both personal and professional realms. Dr. Annika shares her past struggles and the lessons learned, emphasizing the significance of planning for the future while balancing her desires and responsibilities. The session culminates in actionable steps for Dr. Annika to take as she continues her journey of self-discovery and fulfillment.

Takeaways

I want to be 100 years old and I have another 30.
Life is too much fun and too interesting to understand.
I have a whole storage in the basement with weaving stuff.
I know what to do to take the step back.
I have my plan B and C.
I want to live healthy and then go.
I can do things that would be just for me.
It feels good to say it out loud.
I have every confidence that you're going to do this work.
Thank you for having this conversation.

Chapters

00:00 Navigating Life's Transitions
03:46 Embracing Change and Control
09:12 Exploring Future Aspirations
14:41 Lessons from Past Experiences
18:30 Balancing Personal and Professional Life
30:02 Finding Joy in Choices
37:13 Planning for the Future




Keywords

life transitions, personal growth, coaching, stress management, future planning, self-discovery, work-life balance, joy, resilience, health

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Transcript

[00:00:00] I want to be a hundred years old and I have another 30 or 30 years. 

[00:00:08] I see myself doing things that I love to do, I don't hear any equivocation when you say, I'm not ready.

[00:00:18] If you can say that, and if in the same breath, you can point to work that you're engaged in now, that brings you satisfaction. What's the struggle?

[00:00:30] 

[00:00:30] ​

[00:00:30] 

[00:00:35] Today's guest in her own words has lived a beautiful life. She's a busy professional navigating change in the second half of her life.

[00:00:46] And as many people do. She's struggling a bit.

[00:00:50] We'll spend an hour working through these issues. And she achieves a remarkable breakthrough. 

[00:00:58] here's a note for the listeners. Hours before we had this conversation. She experienced a brief. But profound health scare. 

[00:01:09] which she describes as the episode opens. 

[00:01:13] I hope you'll enjoy this episode. And when ever you want to learn more. About coaching. In times of transition. I'm here.

[00:01:25] They. put the thing in the arm, took the blood for they needed it to have the callium before to see that it was all right. And I was just sitting there and I said, now I'm going to faint. And I fainted. 

[00:01:41] Wow. 

[00:01:42] Sitting in a chair. Or leaning back in the chair, really good. They haven't even started anything.

[00:01:49] They've just taken the blood. And I was lost for a couple, for a half a minute and two doctors came in and they took the, cardiac things and everything is fine. 

[00:02:01] Has it ever happened to you before? 

[00:02:03] And it's the blood pressure was 90 over, something lower. So it was really a blood pressure dip.

[00:02:14] And he thinks he said he thinks it's because of the thing they put in my arm and it probably hit some nerve somewhere where it started this reaction. 

[00:02:26] Yeah. 

[00:02:27] And they didn't even start. So I had to go home without it, without doing it. And then I have a new time on the, on 9 11. 

[00:02:38] Do you believe there are any mistakes, Dr.

[00:02:40] Annika? 

[00:02:42] What do you mean? In this or in 

[00:02:44] Do you believe that there are coincidences, accidents? 

[00:02:50] In life? In life. In general? 

[00:02:53] In life, yeah. 

[00:02:55] Absolutely there are coincidences in life. 

[00:02:58] Okay. 

[00:02:59] Alrighty. 

[00:03:00] I was just reading what you had initially written. Yeah. that you wanted to work on today. If that is still the case, that's great.

[00:03:10] If it's not, we can work on anything, but it sounds like you just had the perfect experience to really focus your attention on this topic that you wrote down and I'm gonna let you voice the topic in your own words, because I do think that it's significant. that we're having this coaching conversation on a day in which you had something like that to happen to you for the first time in your life.

[00:03:42] Yes. 

[00:03:42] Yes, it is. And that's one of the things I said to the doctors, I'm, I want to be a hundred years old and I have another 30 or 30 years. 29. So this, there won't, I won't let anything bad be in my way. 

[00:04:00] Yeah. Yeah. So what do you want to work on today? 

[00:04:05] I do want to work on that. What am I, because It is a, what do you say like I said, I'm 71.

[00:04:14] Yes. I've had a long life. I had a good life. I've had real bad things happen to me, but I had a good life. And I do want to be here for a long time. And I don't want to be a retired lady doing nothing or doing ordinary retirement things that I find boring.

[00:04:38] But sometimes I feel maybe I should because people around me and all that. It's a tough world in a sense. So I don't know. 

[00:04:50] All right. So what is it specifically about the Does the desire to live another 30 years and to not be bored that you want to focus on today?

[00:05:04] I just don't, I just think life is, it's too much fun and too interesting to understand and keep up with what's happening in the globe or on the globe, even though it's sad for the moment. and follow my kids and my grandchildren and I just want to be here. 

[00:05:30] Okay. So thinking about, so I, I want to make sure that I understand what you said.

[00:05:38] So you were saying that because, yeah, because, for you and I have known each other for a while, but just for the benefit of the listeners you're Swedish, you're in Sweden, And though you've spoken English for many decades, it's not your first language. And when you use the phrase that life is too much fun, what I am, think I'm hearing you say is that life is a lot of fun.

[00:06:07] All right. 

[00:06:08] Yeah. 

[00:06:09] But then you use similar language to say that, there's. Too much to keep up with in the world and so what I think I'm hearing you say Is that there is this push and pull between having fun and I don't know, what do you mean by too much to keep up with in the world? 

[00:06:35] No, right now the world is on fire, literally, I would say, with all the wars and all that.

[00:06:46] So there's a lot of things that I could live without. 

[00:06:52] Okay. 

[00:06:53] But I try to keep up to be positive. aware of what's going on so that I see it feel prepared or whatever you would call it. If when things change, because we have no there's no secure way for us to know what's going to be going to happen.

[00:07:12] Yes. 

[00:07:13] So that's just the precaution. part of me that I want to have control, so I don't intervene or whatever you would call it in that part more than that I keep up with what's going on so that I can take caution for what I need to do for my life and my family. 

[00:07:37] So there's the part of you that wants to be prepared and it's a part of being prepared.

[00:07:42] You want to keep up with world events. You want to keep up with the existential threats that are out there. Global warming. You mentioned, the world is literally on fire. And all the other ways in which things beyond our individual control are collectively affecting us. But at the same time, you want to have fun.

[00:08:05] Yeah, uh, yeah. Yeah. And I'm not, I don't think I'm letting the things outside ruin or disturb my life in that sense that I don't do things because of it, but it's just that I need, I want, I like the control. I think that's the part of it. And then I want to focus on the good things and my family and the job or whatever you would call it that I do.

[00:08:39] Okay. You like the control. You want to focus on your family. You want to have fun. You want to be prepared. With those things in mind, what specifically do you want to work on today?

[00:08:59] I want to, if I want to discuss and it's about what what should or could or can I do that's gonna help me. Continue to have a good life for the next 30 years. 

[00:09:16] Okay. Alrighty. No it's coming into focus here. So there is this push and pull, which is very understandable, all right, especially for someone who has dedicated her life to care of the human body.

[00:09:37] All right. And especially to someone who has gone beyond. The traditional frameworks to really lean in, to the ways that the individual person can identify things that are causing them stress, put frameworks into place that allow them to get out of their own way, remove the sources of stress, deal with the patterns of being that are causing stress.

[00:10:13] And so this focus on the things that you can control, that makes. Perfect sense. All right. So what is it? 

[00:10:26] Yes, exactly. Exactly. That's what I help my clients to do to figure out how it works and to have take control of that. 

[00:10:37] Yes. And so as you're struggling with this question of how you can live another 30 years, how you can have fun, how you can be prepared.

[00:10:50] For the things that we, that are hard to predict, how do you feel about your ability right now to do those things? 

[00:11:00] I would say that I have like the outside world, those things that I try to keep control of, they, they don't steer my life. I wouldn't say they, it's just, I have that on the side so that I just know, and then I live my life in, inside.

[00:11:19] My bubble, or whatever you would call it. And it's more about the question Can I keep up with doing this stress work and doing that, or maybe I should take a step and do other things because I do have one thing that I have decided earlier that when I don't have the strength or when I'm tired, too tired to do it or don't want to meet that many people and so on, I'm going to go.

[00:11:52] Back to weaving, hand looming, because I did that when I, before I studied medicine, I learned how to hand loom and I did a lot of it. Sold stuff, rugs and carp yeah, rugs and tablecloth and everything. 

[00:12:13] Yeah. So it sounds like you are in the process of, as you are in the process of weighing these choices that are before you about what the next 30 years of your life are going to look like.

[00:12:30] You're also thinking about plan B's and plan C's. All right. Yeah. And and it sounds like you feel good about those plan B's and plan C's. 

[00:12:41] Yes. I have a whole storage in the basement with weaving stuff. 

[00:12:49] You're prepared. 

[00:12:50] That's been coming with me all my life. Yeah. Because it's always been a I'm born in a textile city and my father was working as an engineer in that, in the biggest company for cotton, Textile.

[00:13:06] So I've been groomed to be inside the textile things. I always, all the time when I was young, I sewed my own clothes during my whole teenage period. Just about everything except jeans, . 

[00:13:30] Yeah. 

[00:13:31] So I, and I always liked to do things with my hands and I also learned now, in the old days when I been working with stress and that, crocheting, stitching, weaving, or whatever. It's all the same as meditation. So I haven't been meditated all my life, but I didn't know it. 

[00:13:58] Yeah. Yeah. So then as you think about your desire to navigate this next phase of your life successfully, all right. And to focus on the things. They're going to allow you to have fun, allow you to be prepared.

[00:14:19] How are we going to know what success looks like?

[00:14:24] That is a good question because you probably won't know it until afterwards. And then as I see it, as the doctor maybe, is that you have to change or do the changes before you hit the wall again, the stress wall or the too much wall or whatever you would call it. I don't think I will ever go into that real stress wall because I've been inside it, I've been very close to it, and I've been, Know what to do to take the step back.

[00:15:07] Yes

[00:15:09] But it's Yeah, it is it's tough to know exactly what 

[00:15:16] but I think I'm hearing you say That you trust your ability to not hit the wall to not go so far in the direction away from what success looks like for you. 

[00:15:35] Yeah. Yeah, that's true. Because I've yeah, my, my saddest story is that I lost the baby and my brother within one week, just when I was starting medical to work as a medical doctor.

[00:15:50] So I was in a black hole for a while. And so I know what it is down there. I learned how, that I needed to take care of myself to get out of it. Otherwise, I would have stayed. I've seen patients staying in that hole. for their whole life. And then when, um, we got three more kids today, grown up, healthy, beautiful ladies.

[00:16:17] And when they were teenagers and I was working full time, I was very close to hitting that wall. And I realized I took that step back. And since then I have had I think I have the ability to actually stop before. 

[00:16:36] Yes. So you're acknowledging right now that, hey, I've had experiences in the past. That were really tough to overcome.

[00:16:51] And those experiences have made me really aware of what those guardrails look and feel like. Oh, I'm getting close to the guardrail. I need to change course here. And with very good and understandable reason, right? You had two major traumatic life events, one right after the other, which any normal human being right.

[00:17:17] Would have struggled with. All right. Yeah. But especially someone who is in the middle of. completing their training. All right. And so yeah, very understandably, you've carried with you the lessons. 

[00:17:32] Yeah. And that's probably why I do love to work with people, helping them to understand, to get it. That's my kind of goal, to help people to get it.

[00:17:44] This is it. And then they can work because if they don't get it, nothing's going to happen. 

[00:17:52] Yeah. So then as you think about that, all right, the importance of getting it, right? That if you don't get it, the thing that you're wanting to happen is not going to happen. Need to address or resolve so that you can feel successful in this period of your life

[00:18:15] Yeah that's where I struggle feel that I it's almost like I'm in the what do you say? point where I have to, or where I am thinking, I'm thinking more about this now than I've done earlier. How much do I want to spend the time with helping others, going for others, doing things for others and instead go back and do things for me?

[00:18:55] But when I start thinking about doing things for me and doing that, I just feel I'm not ready. I couldn't take that on full time, because I know I would be bored after a little while. Even if I do love the textile. 

[00:19:11] Okay. 

[00:19:12] And the other things that I need to do or want to do. 

[00:19:15] And so when you say, I'm not ready, how do you feel about saying that?

[00:19:21] It does feel good, because I am not ready. . 

[00:19:24] Yeah. It feels good to say I'm not ready. 

[00:19:29] Yeah. I'm, I am not ready to just leave and, because then I see myself for 30 years because I'm still going to be a hundred . 

[00:19:40] . 

[00:19:40] So I see myself doing things that I love to do, but that would be boring too, or too much, or, and maybe too lonely because I do love the part of this business that I'm doing to talk with other people to have come to meetings and all those things when I get to speak to people around the globe. 

[00:20:09] Yeah. And so if you can say with conviction. And without any equivocation, I don't hear any equivocation when you say, I'm not ready.

[00:20:21] If you can say that, and if in the same breath, you can point to work that you're engaged in now, that brings you satisfaction. What's the struggle?

[00:20:33] Yeah, that's also a good question. Maybe the struggle is that all the people around me are going off the rail from the work base. And they sometimes not even talk to me because we don't, we are not on the same level anymore. And they keep talking about they're going golfing. I don't know. day out and day in, and I feel that is so boring.

[00:21:01] It's just not my thing. Or they go and have dinners and drinking wine and putting out photos on Facebook with the plate and the wine and it's not my thing. 

[00:21:16] And so when you say all the people around you, What I think I'm hearing is you're the peers at your age. 

[00:21:25] Yeah. Yes. Yes. Exactly. The people that we have been meeting with and going to dinners to, my me and my husband and it's, it just becomes more and more boring.

[00:21:42] And one of the things also in these occasions is that I don't drink alcohol at all anymore because I just don't feel good. I can't, I think I have the genes that the Japanese have that can't take it. Because my mother couldn't drink alcohol and my grandmother couldn't. So I just decided many years ago, I don't do that.

[00:22:09] And then when we go to these dinners or whatever, people drink and after a while they're all drunk. And yeah. Not so funny in my ears, and they, I sometimes feel they think I'm boring, and so I think that's why, that's the road division that's coming up, 

[00:22:37] and so can you describe that division for me, like the road that's going in two different directions?

[00:22:46] The one that I have been walking on for a long time now is the one with my business and the meetings and a lot of, I have a lot of connections in the States and the regular talking to people all over the globe. And I think that is That's rewarding for me. That's fun. It's it feels good.

[00:23:11] And sometimes I help people too, and that feels even better. And then the other is the private life that we had is not the one that I really enjoy. Want that much anymore. 

[00:23:29] And when you say the private life, what do you mean by that? 

[00:23:31] Yeah the people, the when we talk about doing things meeting people in here for dinners or yeah, occasions I do love when we have we have the three girls and we have, they have the boyfriends and we have two grandchildren and one on the way.

[00:23:54] And if we have. dinners together because they all live in the same town. That's, I love that. That is beautiful. They are all music. We don't do sports, they do music. So we go to a lot of concerts with them. And that is also something that I really enjoy. 

[00:24:18] So what's keeping you from just focusing on the things that you enjoy and not the things that clearly you don't have any interest in?

[00:24:26] I am not really focusing on it, but they are hitting us every now and then, you get invited and it's hard to say, no, I don't want to go there because then they think, or, yeah, I'm not at that point that I'm going to say I'm not going to go because I go with my husband and he thinks it's a lot of fun, 

[00:24:51] okay. So when those go ahead, 

[00:24:55] yeah, it's just since I think I am aware of the problem, I think it's easier to go through it. So to speak, 

[00:25:07] when you say you think you're aware of the problem, what does that mean? 

[00:25:11] That means that I'm aware of that. I feel outside from these people and that I can deal with that for the moment.

[00:25:23] Yeah. Because I know that's what it is and it had worried, has worried me more than it does today because I, because of this

[00:25:38] thing where I, 

[00:25:40] What do you say, where I know where I'm more happy or more where I want to be. 

[00:25:47] How does it feel to say that out loud?

[00:25:50] It feels okay. 

[00:25:52] So I'm going to be even more granular with the question. How does it feel to say, I enjoy these experiences with these people. I don't enjoy these experiences with these other people. How does it feel to say that out loud? You didn't use those exact words. But I think that's what I'm hearing you say.

[00:26:16] Yeah, that's what it is. I like, I love to do things with the family and we go to concerts and musicals and so on together with them. We have a lot of music. My sister is a musician too. So that's also what I brought up. I'm brought up with music and textile. And And also I love this connections with people around the world and some of them are of course in Sweden too, in the business.

[00:26:51] But I don't enjoy that much the people that we used to meet more before and I still do it. 

[00:27:01] Yeah. With less 

[00:27:02] fun. 

[00:27:03] Can we do a little imagining exercise? Are you open to that? 

[00:27:08] Yeah, let's try. 

[00:27:09] Okay. So the phone rings. And it's an invitation to go and have one of these experiences that you don't expect that you'll have fun in.

[00:27:26] You hear the invitation. What happens?

[00:27:30] If I, if they call my phone, usually they come by invitation paper or email. Then I discuss with my husband. And we'll see whether it's a fit in the time to begin with, and if it is, then we usually, we'll probably go. 

[00:27:52] But before you have the conversation, all right, whether it's a phone call or whether you pick up the mail and you read the invitation, What goes through your mind?

[00:28:04] Yeah. It's

[00:28:06] what goes to my mind? . 

[00:28:07] And let's forget about the possibility that this could be heard by someone somewhere. In fact, we don't have to re, we don't have to broadcast this. I really want this space to be your space to lean into this moment. And 

[00:28:22] but I would, what goes in my mind is that.

[00:28:27] Maybe this is not exactly what I want, but I'll do it for the others. 

[00:28:33] Okay. For my husband. All right. 

[00:28:35] Mainly. 

[00:28:36] And when you make that decision. 

[00:28:40] And there are times when I don't go to things that I think is not for me. 

[00:28:46] Okay. All right. There's times in which you see the invitation and you say, okay, I'm willing to compromise.

[00:28:55] Maybe what I'll find the most fun for the group dynamic, but then there's other times in which you say nope not gonna do it 

[00:29:05] Yeah, it depends on who what it is There are things that I don't Join my husband with 

[00:29:16] And so when you think about the difference between those two times What stands out to you?

[00:29:22] The difference I sit alone at home and and, but he's having fun because it's something that he wants and that's fine with me. 

[00:29:34] And I'd 

[00:29:35] rather sit home and watch TV or do something in front with my computer or whatever. Okay. 

[00:29:42] All right. And so when you make that decision, it sounds like You don't regret it, and he doesn't either.

[00:29:51] That's how it is. 

[00:29:53] There's no conflict internally or externally. Okay, so what's the problem?

[00:30:02] Yeah, what's the problem? That's a good question. I don't know if it's a problem. It's more that like we started off with What am I going to do the rest of my life and how, what things are going on and how can you, how can I the most out of it in a good way for me and for the rest of the world because I can do, if I would do things that would be just for me.

[00:30:36] Very just for me that would not feel good inside me. 

[00:30:41] Yeah, because you value being able to be Productive and to have impact and to be a change agent you still value that but you also value The things that truly bring you joy whether those are things that you do In connection to other people, or what are those things that you do sitting alone at home in front of the television doing your weaving, right?

[00:31:12] Yeah, I am an introvert. I've always been happy to be alone, so to speak. It doesn't bother me. I get more energy when I'm by myself than in big groups. 

[00:31:30] And you have balanced those two things, it sounds fairly successfully. 

[00:31:37] Yeah, like I said, I've had a good life. 

[00:31:40] Yeah. Even 

[00:31:40] though I had my struggles, but I had a good life.

[00:31:44] How would you rate your ability to balance those two things successfully in your, in this phase of your life? 

[00:31:53] Rate in what's 

[00:31:55] If you had to give yourself If you had to give your ability To balance putting your focus and your effort and your energies on the activities that allow you to be connected to other people and to have impact and to get joy from that balancing that with having time to recharge and to nurture your introspective self, how would you rate your ability to do that on a scale of 1 to 10?

[00:32:26] 10 is I'm a superstar rock star. One is I'm sitting in the corner in first grade. I have no idea what I'm doing. 

[00:32:35] I would say that I am somewhere at the top eight, nine. 

[00:32:40] Yeah, you're somewhere at the top. You've done this very successfully. And it sounds like you're navigating the space at home with your husband in a way that is acceptable to both of you.

[00:32:54] It sounds like you've demonstrated over and over again in some not so easy times even, that you have the ability, you have the strength of mind, you have the focus of will, you have the fix, the fixity of purpose, all right, to use some old time language, to move yourself from one point to the other, to balance these competing desires and interests.

[00:33:22] How's that land with you? 

[00:33:24] It sounds good. 

[00:33:26] How's it feel though? 

[00:33:28] It feels good. It's, yeah, it's, I liked the way you put it before when you said, I have the plan B and C. 

[00:33:39] Yeah, 

[00:33:39] because I haven't seen it in that perspective. With those things that I think about what I want to do. But that's a very good way to say it.

[00:33:51] I have my plan A, what I'm doing most of the days, and I have my plan B that I can start any day when I, when things happen that I feel that I have to do that. 

[00:34:07] And the difference between being overwhelmed by the choices, And making those choices deliberately, the difference is what?

[00:34:21] Yeah, that's yeah, that was really a good way of seeing it. 

[00:34:27] What's the difference between those choices being a source of stress versus those choices? being a source of pleasure and power and confirmation that this is a life well lived. 

[00:34:46] It is. It's, yeah, you get me wrong. I get mixed up in the language, but you 

[00:34:53] can say it in Swedish.

[00:34:54] If that helps you to get the thought out, because, but seriously, the whole point is get the thought in front of you. And then put thought in a way that you can share with others. 

[00:35:08] Yeah, but I think it is it is, it feels good to have to to see that I am doing what I want to do. Most of the time, I know I have a backup plan.

[00:35:23] It doesn't stress me that I'm not doing it because it's there. I can go feel the change. Fabrics. Anytime if I want, and, and when I go down and see, I, every time that I've done it so far, I, we have other stuff there, so we have to go down there sometimes. And it's yeah, I love to have it here, but I'm not there yet.

[00:35:49] Yeah. It feels good to know that, hey, I have these choices in front of me. I can make these choices. I can switch gears from what I'm doing now when it no longer is resonating with me deeply. I can shift gears to something that I find equally as comforting and equally as pleasurable, but in a different way.

[00:36:12] Yeah. 

[00:36:13] And I can also I, no one see, as long as I have. my ability to think clear and people believe me I can can transform this in the future so that I do just a little bit of speaking and talking to people and less of that and start doing the textile introvert things. 

[00:36:41] Yeah. 

[00:36:44] When, because I, of course I am still going to be 100.

[00:36:49] I want to be healthy and have energy and all that and I take good care of myself. But I know also that when you, the older you get, there are things that might be less easy. That's just how it is. 

[00:37:09] In the time that we have left, how do you feel about your ability to deal with those things as they come up?

[00:37:16] I feel good. I feel content that I am capable. And I just hope that the world around me will tell me if I start to not be so ready in my head.

[00:37:33] Because 

[00:37:33] that's maybe what I feel. What would be the kind of worst fear is to get out of your own mind I want to live healthy and then 

[00:37:47] Yeah, it sounds like here in our last few minutes and this happens a lot in a coaching session You know that people Ooh, they get to the meat. They get to the money, right there at the end.

[00:37:59] And so sometimes what we have to do is give people some homework. All right. Because what you said right there at the end, Ooh, that really speaks to the heart of the matter. All right. Hey, there's some things that I can't quite prepare for all by myself. And I need to know that I have people around me and systems in place around me.

[00:38:26] So that I'll get the feedback in a way that is nurturing for me in a way that keeps me safe in a way that preserves my autonomy and my choices. But guess what? If there's any human being on the planet who's able to put those guardrails in the place because of the training that she has. Because of the focus that she has as a stress coach and helping people to put those systems in place for themselves because of the personal experience that she's had dealing with tragedy and loss and what that's taught her about overcoming adversity.

[00:39:14] Oh, that person's you. You can identify the things that you can do right now to begin to put those guardrails in place. What's one of those things that you could do right now?

[00:39:28] I have been planning to write a list of things for tomorrow. to take care of in case when I, where to do with the business and all those, all those people. And then my youngest daughter, she's becoming a pediatrician, so I can have her as my guard, so to speak, to tell. I have, they are, I'm very close to my, all my three daughters, but she's the one that would see it.

[00:39:59] So you're already doing it. You're already thinking about it. We're just giving you the space and the framework to begin to say it out loud so that you can use that awareness to then make some conscious choices and your ability to make those choices. Oh, it's proven, it's demonstrated over and over and over again.

[00:40:25] And so you mentioned one way you can make the list. All right. 

[00:40:29] Yeah. 

[00:40:30] How far have you gotten in making that list? 

[00:40:33] We had an old list before I started. It has to be revised a lot, and I have to put other things in there. All right. 

[00:40:43] So you know what's important to you. You know what the guardrails are that you want.

[00:40:49] You know what you want them to accomplish. And that's it. You have a list that you know needs to be revised. When are you going to make that revision? 

[00:41:02] One of these days. 

[00:41:05] Which one of these days?

[00:41:07] Yeah, maybe I can just take it all. Take it out to begin with, to look at, to see 

[00:41:13] what's in there. Okay. So you'll pull the list out and begin looking at it and begin thinking about it. All right. And then, yeah. When are you gonna do that?

[00:41:22] Yeah, when am I gonna do that? I can do that tomorrow to take it out. 

[00:41:26] Okay. All right. Tomorrow so it's Tuesday here, in Tulsa, Oklahoma. It still Tuesday here too. Is it still Tuesday? There. Yep. So what time tomorrow?

[00:41:39] It would be in my before lunch because but I can't say the exact time because I have meetings in the morning. That's 

[00:41:45] fair. So sometime before lunch tomorrow, you'll pull the list out. You'll take a look at it. You'll begin to do the mental and emotional work of taking a look at that list. And starting to write down the things that need to be on that list.

[00:42:08] I can, I think the best way is to take it out, look at it, put it by my bedside, and then I can scribble down as I come along, thinking of things, and then, Take time next week or in a couple of weeks to sit down and do it on the computer so that it's all right with all the information. 

[00:42:32] How are you going to hold yourself accountable for this work?

[00:42:35] Yeah, I'll just do it because I've been thinking of it for a while. 

[00:42:41] Okay. Alrighty. So you trust yourself to do the work. And might I make a suggestion? Are you open to a suggestion? 

[00:42:51] Yes, maybe.

[00:42:54] No is an answer too. No is a full sentence. Just like you tell those invitations, no, just like you say, nope, I'm not going to do that. You can say no now. And it's a hundred percent valid. 

[00:43:08] I can send you a note. 

[00:43:10] Or did you want me to do anything 

[00:43:12] else? I'm happy to read your note, but even more organically, it sounds like there's a daughter over there.

[00:43:21] Yep. Who you trust, who you already have. in your, um, support system. Who's your person? It sounds like you're going to make her the person who can speak for you when you can't speak for yourself. 

[00:43:35] Yeah. I think she's the best one to do that part. 

[00:43:39] So she might be an excellent source of accountability for you as you navigate this space as well.

[00:43:46] How does that 

[00:43:48] feel? That's perfect. 

[00:43:50] Yeah. Yeah. So when are you going to reach out to her? 

[00:43:54] I think it will be in the weekend because she works and she has this baby, so they are fairly full of stuff in a week. 

[00:44:08] So tomorrow, pull the list out. Begin the process of looking at it, sit by the bedside, make notes as they come to you, and then this weekend, have a conversation with your daughter about the list.

[00:44:24] All right. How's it feel having a plan? 

[00:44:29] It feels good to say it out loud because I've been thinking a lot about this. 

[00:44:34] Yeah. You know that this is the work that is. 

[00:44:39] And It's both from what I've seen patients and also from when my parents and other people. Things happen. It's that it's so good to have things in Done in advance.

[00:44:56] Yes, you know the value of it. Yeah, 

[00:44:58] because clean The so called we call it death cleaning or death sorting Yeah, when we are sorting out things and so on so that our kids Don't have to go through all the stuff because I gone through all my parents stuff and it was a lot. 

[00:45:18] Yeah. So you're using the skills that you know you possess and you're doing the heavy lifting that only you can do, which includes bringing the people into the conversation that you trust.

[00:45:38] Yeah,

[00:45:40] that's true. How are you feeling right now? 

[00:45:43] I feel fine. 

[00:45:44] Good. Good. I have every confidence that you're going to do this work. You're going to do it efficiently. You're going to be real effective at it, but most importantly, you're going to take from the work, what it has to offer you so that you can keep dancing so that you can keep having those moments of joy with your clients around the world.

[00:46:13] Keep having those moments of joy with your daughters, and you have granddaughters now, too, is what I remember. Yes, I 

[00:46:19] have one granddaughter and one grandson and your 

[00:46:22] grandchildren Yeah, 

[00:46:24] and the granddaughter to come 

[00:46:26] and a granddaughter to come. Yes Keep having those moments of joy with your husband and with your weaving.

[00:46:35] Yeah, I have every confidence that you're gonna do that.

[00:46:40] How do you want to end the session? 

[00:46:42] I don't know. 

[00:46:43] Listen, thank you for being engaged in the work. And yeah, keep me posted. I want to see where you go with this. 

[00:46:52] Okay. And thank you for having this conversation and you may put it out. I don't think I've said anything that I can't say. What do you say?

[00:47:04] Say it in Swedish.

[00:47:06] Stand for or what do you say?

[00:47:10] I received the sentiment. I hear what you're extending toward me energetically. And I do thank you. Yeah. Good work. Proud of you.

[00:47:20] Until next time. Yep. 

[00:47:22] Thank you, Dr. 

[00:47:23] Annika. 

[00:47:24] Thank you. 

[00:47:25] Bye.