#12: Beth Pascall - Western States Winner 2021: A Journey of Perseverance, Balance, and Hope

Have you ever wondered how a world-class ultra-marathon runner and a paediatrician find balance? Meet our guest, Beth Pascall, winner of the Western States 100 in 2021... an embodiment of grit, tenacity, and perseverance. She unpacks her journey, addressing her battle with a recurring injury, the mental toll it's taken, and her unyielding determination to run again.

We further delve into Beth's world, where she discusses letting go of sponsorship pressures and her thoughts on the differences between bike racing and running. She candidly shares her journey of preparing for the Western States and striking a balance between her medical career and her passion for running. Beth's reflections on her six-month sabbatical and her perspective on running as a selfish pursuit, but one that complements medicine, are genuinely thought-provoking. We also gained some practical advice from Beth on eating enough for injury prevention and performance enhancement.

Our conversation doesn't stop there; we discuss current affairs surrounding the Ultra-Trail du Mont-Blanc (UTMB) and the Dacia sponsorship, the decision of Killian Jornet not to participate, and the impact of sponsorship in races. 

Her story is a beautiful reminder of the strength of the human spirit. Join us in this engaging exploration of Beth Pascall’s world.

Thanks for being part of our running community. Keep clocking those miles, keep pushing your limits, and above all, keep finding joy in the run. See you on the next episode of Maximum Mileage Running Podcast!

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:02

Hello everybody and welcome back to another episode of the Maximum Mileage Running podcast, and I am absolutely delighted today to introduce our guest, because I'm here with my co-host, faye, as well. Our guest today is Beth Pascal Beth if you have been living under an ultra-running rock is a top tier Solomon athlete who absolutely smashes ultra-marathons when she's not working in the hospital as a full-time pediatrician and she's actually won the Western States 100, including some of her other races like UTMB Top 5 Finishes and the Bob Graham Round Record. And Beth is here to talk about how she has balanced it all and to talk about what's been going on the last couple of years and also some current affairs as well with UTMB. So, beth, welcome to the show.

Speaker 2: 0:53

Hi Nick and Hi Faye, Thanks for inviting me to do this podcast. Yes, it's nice to be here.

Speaker 1: 0:59

Thank you very much for coming on and I'm just going to say it. I mean, I'm not famous enough to be getting Beth Pascal to just come straight on my podcast on like episode 10 or whatever. I'm on. You and Faye, you and Faye actually know each other. How the hell do you know each other?

Speaker 2: 1:17

We went to school together, but I think maybe Faye could correct me on this, but only very briefly, maybe for like a couple of years or something like that.

Speaker 3: 1:27

I think it was three or four years, maybe it was. No, it was primary school, so I don't blame you for not remembering, because it feels like a lifetime ago, but it was that we went to school together for about. I think it was four years, but yeah, I think so Okay.

Speaker 2: 1:46

Yeah, you probably remember better than me because I think you were the one who left that school and went elsewhere. So, whereas I was in the same place for my childhood, that's like proper.

Speaker 1: 1:59

You traitor, you left I forget about you.

Speaker 3: 2:02

Yeah, I just went off, yeah.

Speaker 1: 2:06

Very good. Well, no. Thank you very much for coming on, Beth, and I always like to kick off the show with the question what is your why, when you're 90 miles into your 100 mile race and it's tough, and you're like you're questioning, why the hell am I doing this? What is your why?

Speaker 2: 2:27

I think the answer to that question is different when you're 90 miles into a race than, like when you're you wake up at five in the morning and need to get out the door to do a session. I think when I'm 90 miles into the race, the thing that is keeping me going is is, like, all the people who've helped get me to that point. So all the people have put in time and energy and you know my husband who's who has been crewing and taken all his annual leave for years and years to support me at races and it's it's the people that that care about me and that have helped me get the start line that there are people that keep me going, like in the latter stages of a race. But but why I get up at five in the morning to go and train, I don't know. I don't, I don't know.

Speaker 2: 3:22

Yeah, it's an interesting one. Certainly, I just feel better if I am, if I'm being physically active, that's, if I'm running, if I'm cycling, it's I don't know. I I've always been really into sport, so I don't know. And if I can't do anything physical, then I'm just not a very nice person to be around, I suppose. So I think, I think it's that, more than like a real drive to be the best at something, that that kind of gets me up in the morning to go and train.

Speaker 1: 4:02

Yeah, I love that. I always say you know, I think I'm competitive ultra runner, I love it, I love racing, I love competing, but ultimately I still run for my mind. My ass just follows yeah. And that's yeah, that's a really important thing, Cool, okay. Okay, you've got a question.

Speaker 3: 4:22

Excellent. So, yeah, I wanted to. Obviously, with all the success that you had with your races and you've had some outstanding achievements that I'm in absolute awe of. Obviously, in the last couple of years, you've encountered some injuries and I just wondered how. I mean, we've seen some some brief kind of glimpses into how things have been over the last couple of years, but how have you dealt with that, having gone from the success to then having to deal with an injury, and you know, physically, mentally, you know saying how important physical activity is to you in all shapes and sizes how did you, how did you deal with that, I suppose? And, yeah, how did you manage that?

Speaker 2: 5:17

Yeah, well, it's just one injury actually, but it's always just been one injury, the same injury. I think I've gone through stages really, and how you deal with it depends on what stage you're at. So I think early on I dealt with it fairly well. I could just channel my energy into doing all the things to get better physically. So I was. So I was driven to do everything right, to do all my rehab, to see all the right people get all the support I needed, and I guess I had complete confidence that it would get better in the early stages.

Speaker 2: 5:58

So mentally it was difficult, but that wasn't the most challenging part of it, certainly. And then as time went on, it became apparent that it wasn't getting better in the way that we had expected. So you kind of transition towards it gets much harder mentally and I certainly have not cope with it well at all at times and you go through that transition phase of, I guess, still being really motivated to do everything, everything to get better, but at the same time like not wanting to put your life on hold waiting for an injury to get better. So I and I was, you know, I was clear with myself that I didn't want to just be like an injured runner, like if I couldn't do the thing I wanted to do, I wanted to do other things, basically.

Speaker 1: 6:59

So I love that, beth. I just wanted to just hang on that for a second because I'm injured at the moment. I've got a hernia operation in two weeks and immediately my mind went to oh God, I can't run, I'm so depressed, what am I going to do? But I think it's so important for people listening and I try and say to people all the time don't focus on what you can't do, focus on what you can do. I think that's just so helpful and you've obviously taken that approach.

Speaker 2: 7:28

Yeah, yeah, thank you. But despite that, you know, I've found it really really difficult and it doesn't. It doesn't really get any easier not being able to do the thing that you want to be able to do, especially with the way that my life was set up at the time and everything. You know, your whole kind of life revolves around everything. So it was really hard, but I kind of threw myself into other things and was still not wanted to compromise, like recovery, to get back to running. But yeah, I've been doing other things, like riding my bike, doing some races, bike races and, yeah, just filling my time with other things. And I guess at times I've had to purposely take a step back from from wanting to be part of the running community. So like I don't follow I'm not like a running geek anymore, I don't follow all the races I don't like, it's just not. I've had to kind of detach myself in some way Because you know, I don't want to spend my whole life thinking about the thing I can't do.

Speaker 3: 8:42

Absolutely, and that makes complete sense. Yeah, taking a step back and and, like you've said, making the most of what you can do, did you find, with, with the journey, with the injury and the ups and downs that came with that, did you find that you spent more time focusing on other elements of your training and life that you hadn't necessarily had time to before? Did you notice anything about yourself that you kind of, in all the all the kind of hubbub of everything that was going on? Was there anything you found, you know you found discovered about your training or your rehab that was was quite useful?

Speaker 2: 9:27

Nothing that really jumps to mind. I mean, I wish I could say that I'd thrown like all my time and energy into one specific thing and got really good about it or cultivated a new passion for something. But honestly, like in the early stages, I mean I'll be honest, there's been times like when I was running, when you're training really hard and like working full time as well and things like part of me would be like I wish, I wish I would get injured and then life would be so much easier I wouldn't have to do like, you know, not, not not very often, but I, you know, like very occasionally, because God, if I broke my ankle and I wouldn't have to do you know like. You know, obviously not, not seriously, but no, but yeah. But actually when I did get injured, like I found it really hard to think of the positives early on and I so I thought that I would spend much more time doing doing other things.

Speaker 2: 10:22

But certainly the early stages I didn't. I didn't want to do anything. I really like I didn't want to do anything. I was like less engaged in every area of life. I would say, but but yeah, that has changed a bit and and I do spend more time doing other things, like gardening, I don't know, like I guess I have a more well rounded life at the moment, like it's not all about. Yes, I do a fair amount of cycling, but also do lots of other things, like I don't know, going like wild swimming and just just, I don't know, my life isn't all about, yeah, running and work, yeah, which it was before, absolutely.

Speaker 3: 11:13

And just one more question around that when, when, in regards to sponsorship was there, how did how did you feel around kind of your commitments to your sponsors, when, when and how, how did you deal with that? And how was? Did you feel pressure, I suppose? Was there a degree of pressure or worry that came about in regards to your sponsorship?

Speaker 2: 11:40

I did feel pressure early on, but that was purely from myself and I think I I was anxious about not being able to perform for my sponsors, but but the sponsors have never put any pressure on me at all. So Salomon is my, is still my, my main sponsor. I'm still with with Salomon and and yet they've they've been really supportive.

Speaker 1: 12:10

Yeah, brilliant.

Speaker 2: 12:10

Throughout. Yeah, so yeah, all the pressure I felt was from me and now, like I've kind of let go of that, so I don't, I don't feel, I don't feel anything to do with sponsors. I don't feel, yeah, I don't feel like I need to get, get back to running, just to that's really good, that's really lovely to hear you know.

Speaker 3: 12:31

but I am.

Speaker 2: 12:33

I am in a fortunate position that I have another career, so it's not. It's not the same as other people who are full, full time athletes who rely on, like their salary from their sponsors for, you know, for their living. So I am fortunate in that respect.

Speaker 3: 12:49

I was just saying before you, but before we started, I said to Nick, I was out running this morning and I I wasn't hitting the intervals that I should be hitting and I thought, thank God this isn't my job, because I'd be beside myself with anxiety because I'm not, I'm not performing, I'm not performing and I can't imagine the pressure that comes with that. In regards to you know, it's one thing having a hobby or a really you know order, like you know, amateur professional type career, but, like you say, when you're relying on that, it's a different ball game, isn't it?

Speaker 2: 13:22

But yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't think that I I ever felt that much pressure, even even when I first got like a proper contract. I don't think I. I perhaps felt a little bit, but I didn't feel feel so much pressure, to be honest. Certainly not in if not an individual. If an individual session didn't go well, I wouldn't be much about it too much. Yeah, just me. Well, don't worry about it.

Speaker 1: 13:52

No, that's what I say to all the time. Will biking ever replace running? If you can't get back to running, do you think you'll keep up with the bike racing? Is it gravel? Is it gravel you're doing?

Speaker 2: 14:07

Yeah, I mean I'm a bit confused really. I've been doing a little bit. I don't really know what I want to do. Will it ever be the same to me as running was to me?

Speaker 1: 14:23

Yeah, I guess so.

Speaker 2: 14:24

Probably not. No, I mean, I'm never going to be a decent cyclist, like I'm an okay cyclist in the way that most good runners would probably be okay, okay cyclist, but I'm really nothing special and I can't see myself ever putting as much time and energy and having as much passion for it, to be honest. But you know, there's a little spark there, but maybe in the future I'll take it a bit more seriously. But certainly in the last couple of years I've not been. I've been a bit all over the place. My training has been very unstructured. Like as I said before, the priority has been trying to get healthy, for running and cycling is just something else to fill my time with. So so I haven't. I guess I haven't ever given myself a chance, proper chance, with cycling yet, but I don't think I'll ever. I can, I'll never be that good at it.

Speaker 1: 15:20

No, here's one for you. If you could go back and change anything, you know the time that's kind of led up to, you know, western States, and then it was kind of after Western States that you know the injury started to happen, is there anything that you would have changed to? You know, you look back and think, well, maybe if I'd done that differently, maybe I wouldn't be in a position that I found myself in.

Speaker 2: 15:44

Yeah, but but these are things that that I could never have known at the time, like I don't kick myself for doing things that I did, but now I can look back and say, oh well, I should have had three months off after Western States, maybe I wouldn't have got injured. But like you know, no one does.

Speaker 3: 16:06

No, no, no, no, no, no, no no.

Speaker 2: 16:07

It's not like I. I think that was a really stupid thing to do. Yeah, I like most of it. Well, it's certainly. I've been really, really unlucky and yeah, there's small things that I would change, but there's nothing that I can definitely say. This is what caused the injury. And if I hadn't done that I mean maybe even if I had three months off after Western States I still have would have got this injury. Maybe it was always always going to happen. Maybe I was genetically predisposed to get it. So so yeah, I don't know, it's not like I. You know, if I'd done more strength training, this wouldn't have happened, or there's nothing specific like that. I think it's mainly really bad luck.

Speaker 1: 16:51

Yeah, yeah, no 100%. I think it is bad luck because you know we. I remember when you won Western States. I remember whatever time it was here when you crossed the finish line I was like best one, best one. Yeah, I was one of the one of your biggest cheerleaders. It was a great time, it's I?

Speaker 2: 17:10

have to say.

Speaker 1: 17:11

I have to say it was. I saw your Western States throwback post on Instagram a few weeks back and it was sad, I have to say it was sad to see the tone of the post that you put. You know it clearly. What was it you said?

Speaker 2: 17:31

You'd have to remind me.

Speaker 1: 17:32

now I'm just talking about exactly what it was you said. You said something along the lines of you know, perhaps my life could have been different, rather than you know, now it isn't different. You know, I thought when I won Western States my life would be different, but now, you know, I'm still a doctor, I'm still doing my job.

Speaker 2: 17:52

Yeah, I guess what I was trying to say is, like, before a big race like that, the race was everything. Yeah, like it really was the most important thing in my life to do that race, yeah.

Speaker 2: 18:07

And then you don't really think beyond that and you don't think about, like, what happens afterwards and you think that if you won the race that life would somehow be different. But really it doesn't change anything. Like, if I could go back, I would have, I would have. If I could say, would you have? You know, I would have preferred to not have won that race and not get injured for sure. Like, yeah, I wish I'd never run that race. For sure it's, yes, it'll be like something that'll stay with me forever. But still I, yeah, I wish I hadn't done it.

Speaker 1: 18:44

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 18:46

But something I do like that you often mention in your posts is about not looking backwards and looking to the future, and I think that's really important and it comes back to what you said and kind of thinking would you change anything? And we can always look back and think what if? But I think I like the idea that you're often like I can't be looking back, I'm looking to the future and what might be next and what I can do to get to that point. And I think that's really really positive to read and see, you know, because that's applicable to many areas of life and it's just nice to think. You know it's good to look forward and we can't keep looking back at the what if? I've done this differently.

Speaker 2: 19:28

So yeah, thank you, and I guess I've had to. It's not something that I chose, it was something that I kind of had to do out of necessity to stay sane, I guess. And you know, I think everyone, everyone does the same, but it takes some time to stop looking back and start looking forward again, for sure.

Speaker 3: 19:50

Absolutely.

Speaker 1: 19:51

Amen to that. I am going to ask you to look back a little bit, because I am a coach who helps people with busy lives. I don't work with any elite athletes, but you've been an elite athlete and somehow you've held down the job as a pediatrician. And one of our biggest questions, I think, was actually from one of my athletes, because he works in the healthcare sector as well as a lead pharmacist for a mental health trust, and his question, a little bit like mine, is so, first of all, what did you? What did you are training for? For something like Western States and UTMB and the Bob Graham record round, etc. You know what. What did a week of training look like to you and how the hell did you balance that with being a doctor?

Speaker 2: 20:42

Well, no, no week looks the same. I can't really give you an example of a week, but it was all. I guess it because the shifts are very you go through stages of, like very intensive work. So you might work like three or four 13 hour shifts and then you have some days off, but you might have a week where you're not working very much at all in a week where you know it's a really big week. Work wise, this training is completely built around, built around work.

Speaker 2: 21:12

So I would try to not not schedule periods of intensive training around periods of intensive work, like there was no point, you know, doing an interval session between night shifts, because you know you're just not going to recover from it. So so, yeah, schedule like hard periods of training when I had time to recover, when I wasn't working as much, and I guess you know I didn't train. I didn't train as much as, you know, most other pro runners I was racing against like my training volume was lower, certainly on average throughout the year, but I would, I would try and have a few short weeks of of high volume training, kind of in the lead up to a big race, and I and I knew that I could get away with that, but certainly training high volume all year round was not going to work for me.

Speaker 1: 22:05

Yeah, how did you prepare for Western States? Because, if memory recalls you, you went out there a little while before right to get a climb.

Speaker 2: 22:13

Yeah, yeah, so I actually wasn't working at the time. I ran Western States, so I had a six month sabbatical from work oh, ideal, which was cool, it was a lot of fun. But I don't actually think that it was because of that that I won Western States. Like, looking back, I was. I think I was off work from like March until September or something, but I was in really good shape in March, like I was, you know, in the shape of my life in March. So I don't think it was necessarily that that helped me. I would say that it it enabled me to spend time at altitude and time running in the heat, which which was beneficial.

Speaker 1: 22:58

Yeah, that's key for something like Western States.

Speaker 2: 23:01

Yeah, and it's. You know, it's not possible to to get those things whilst being a worker in the UK. So that was that was the main reason it it. I mean it did help kind of fine tune things before the race. And yeah, it was, it was, it was a lot of fun to have some time off, but but certainly at the end of it I was, I knew that I didn't, I couldn't do that full time, like I. I guess I've always kind of felt that running is a kind of selfish way to spend your time and I I, I, I'd agree with that.

Speaker 2: 23:42

And I, yeah, like I, I think it, it, it, it complements medicine really well, because when you're running, it's really just about you and when you're at work it's it's nothing about you at all. So, yeah, when I did have the time off, I did feel that like it, like who's benefiting from this? Only me. I didn't feel like it was something that I could be satisfied with and get enough meaning from doing like full time.

Speaker 1: 24:12

Yeah, yeah. So are you saying that it never sort of cost? You mind that maybe you could go full time pro athlete? Yeah?

Speaker 2: 24:22

yeah, certainly I would have had. I would have, I guess, if I was still running now I could. I could have had like more chunks of time off, but I would still have to. You can't just well, it's very difficult to just like quit medicine and then go back to it five years later. I always wanted to keep keep up medicine. But, yeah, it was in the back of my mind that I could try and get some more chunks of time off, but I was never going to sort of leave medicine for a prolonged period of time.

Speaker 1: 24:50

No, no, fantastic. And working with kids, right. I mean, I'm a, I'm a father of a six and a three year old, so thank you for everything that you do there, thank you. We had a question come in I wanted to ask and what is your biggest piece of running advice that you would give? You know, any, any, any average, any, any sort of runner that might be listening.

Speaker 2: 25:17

That's a big question.

Speaker 1: 25:18

I know.

Speaker 3: 25:22

It can be. It can be more than one, it doesn't you know. If there's a couple of bits, that's fine. Oh, that was it no sorry, Let me re.

Speaker 1: 25:28

Let me re ask the question what's the best bit of running advice you've ever been given? That was it. Sorry, I've just rechecked it.

Speaker 2: 25:35

The best bit of running advice. No, that's even harder. Maybe I'll stick to the first bit, gosh. I mean, I'm trying to think of something that isn't like really obvious that everyone tells people all the time like, oh, consistency.

Speaker 1: 25:53

I do. You're going to say that I do it.

Speaker 2: 25:56

That's, that's kind of obvious. Um, I mean, eat enough. Eat enough, I would say, is the best thing that you can do to prevent injuries and get faster.

Speaker 1: 26:19

Yeah, good one, I love that and once you're on that, yeah.

Speaker 2: 26:22

The most dangerous thing you can do is that it's very dangerous if you don't. Basically yeah.

Speaker 3: 26:28

That's a really interesting yeah and I'm wholeheartedly behind that. But just with that, just a kind of side question to that when you were racing, did you help in regards to making sure that you were fueling enough before and during and after sessions and races? Did you find yourself at any point comparing yourself to other runners and thinking am I in the best shape I can be, and did it ever cost your mind that? In regards to that energy deficit, was it ever cost your mind that that was a way to achieve that?

Speaker 2: 27:18

As in body image did.

Speaker 2: 27:20

I ever feel that I didn't look like a run, enough like a runner, and comparing myself to the way other people looked, absolutely yes, early on, I would say when I first started running I would look at people on the start line and think, oh, I don't look like a runner. But I would say that quite quickly changed as soon as I had like any like half decent results. It didn't bother me at all. No, so I mean, I've always been like quite muscular, yeah For a runner and yet, but I don't think that, no, it didn't, it didn't really bother me, I guess.

Speaker 2: 28:08

I guess I've never been in an environment where body image has been in like the running context has been like a big deal. So it's not like I came from a background of like fact running and always doing like running to a high level when I was younger and perhaps more vulnerable to that kind of mentality, and I guess I've always, always been surrounded by, you know, good coaches and good people who have not paid any attention to that. So I think I've been quite fortunate and I've never felt like, oh, I need to lose weight to get faster. It's not been something that has ever, ever really been pushed towards me or something that I've paid attention to.

Speaker 1: 28:58

No, that's good. I think a lot of people listening will be glad to hear that, because it is something I hear a lot. It's actually something I've been going through a little bit myself recently because we've had some stuff going on with my wife's health which has meant stress, eating and things like that, and I have put on a solid six or seven kilos and I do continue to look at myself and go well, you know, I'm out there running some pretty quick times but I can feel my dad barely bouncing up and down. And actually it's only when you start working with the right people and having that right support network around you to say, you know, either they don't say anything to you like you've had, or you have the right people around you to say, well, you don't need to worry about that because you've just done a half marathon PB, or you know one a an ulcer. So you know, don't worry about that sort of stuff.

Speaker 2: 29:49

So yeah, certainly the mentality is shifting. In running and in all sports, to be honest, like climbing, cycling or all these sports that have a kind of or historically been felt to be, weight, weight dependent, the mentality is shifting and that stronger is better, not not lighter is better.

Speaker 1: 30:11

Yeah, that's a In the short term and long term. Yeah, that was Chris Froome when he, you know he won the Tour de France. I think it's still still there in the background in the cycling world. Please listen. Anyway, how do you feel about your sister and her achievements and how do you feel about her flying the Pascal flag at the moment in the running world? And how is that relationship between you two Because I've got two sisters and we're always having digs at each other about things how is it between you two?

Speaker 2: 30:52

We have a good relationship and I'm really happy that she's running well. I think I was the one who was pushing her into running.

Speaker 1: 31:05

Good on you.

Speaker 2: 31:07

Yeah, I mean, for a few years I was like you could be good at running. If you like, put your mind to it Edges, I know it's your thing. So I like to think that I kind of helped to get started with running and taking more seriously and things. So, no, I'm really happy that she's running well and yeah, it's really really cool to see.

Speaker 1: 31:28

I remember the demoralising moments on mile 22 of the when over words. When she overtook me. She's really good.

Speaker 2: 31:41

Yeah, she's certainly got similar style to me. She's good at running long, she's got the engine, but she's not super fast. So, yeah, the exact same to me.

Speaker 1: 31:53

Yeah, now she's doing great and all kudos to you for supporting her and pushing her in. Let's talk a little bit about current affairs. It's UTMB. How do you feel about the whole dacha piece around that?

Speaker 2: 32:20

Well, it's crazy to think that they thought they could get away with it without a lot of stick.

Speaker 1: 32:29

It's bizarre yeah.

Speaker 2: 32:32

I mean, it's so obvious. All events get a lot of stick for having such sponsors these days. So yeah, it's crazy to think that they thought they would get away with it without anyone making it fuss. But at the same time, like no one is. I don't think anyone's going to UTMB probably don't care Like they. No one is going to boycott the race because of it. They're so big I'm not sure they care about their image that much. Yeah, I think that's the unfortunate truth.

Speaker 1: 33:12

Yeah, Do you not think? I don't know. I thought it was very coincidental that Killian signed the petition and then the next day said my injury's too bad, I'm not going to race. Do you think, reading between the lines, there was something going on and then Marquis the Marquis man that you definitely want running your race decided not to do it.

Speaker 2: 33:37

Amongst all of that going on, no, I mean, I don't think so. Who knows if Killian would have signed it if he had been doing the race.

Speaker 1: 33:45

Come on, I like a conspiracy theory.

Speaker 2: 33:49

No I don't think so. I don't think. No, I don't think that's got anything to do with it. No, Okay.

Speaker 1: 33:58

There might have been a little bit of something going on and I don't know. It felt like there was a little bit of a message there, a little bit of okay, I'm going to say it's my injury, but I've just signed this petition and I wonder if it might have just been a little bit of because the man has got some power now in terms of his reputation not in terms of his attitude at all, because Killian just seems like the most amazing man, but certainly in terms of his reputation.

Speaker 2: 34:24

I think, if he was boycotting I think if he was boycotting the race because of that, he would have said he was boycotting the race. Yeah, that would make a bigger statement, right?

Speaker 1: 34:34

Yeah, Emily, still isn't she.

Speaker 2: 34:38

Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1: 34:40

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 34:41

I would like it to be true, but I don't think so.

Speaker 1: 34:46

How about Damien? Because I saw I mean Damien Hall. He only lives just down the road for me. I've got to get him on here at some point and get him in for a cup of tea. I don't really know him, but he's obviously very vocal about the whole thing. Did he boycott it, do you think? I don't think he was running anyway.

Speaker 2: 35:06

No, I don't think he wanted to run anyway. No, but no, I mean, Damien is doing a lot of good work with it. No, I don't think he was. He boycotted the race because of this.

Speaker 1: 35:24

No, and do you think there is a world where UTMB drop thatcher and perhaps seek out a better sponsor sooner rather than later?

Speaker 2: 35:44

I don't know. I don't know. Friends have bigger deal they've got with Datcha. I think they care more about money than their reputation, if I'm honest, unfortunately, I think you said it there, beth.

Speaker 3: 35:58

It's become such a big event now, hasn't it that? It's like you said, it's not so much about the reputation, because it is what it is, and people want to go do the races because there's so many races now, so it's kind of enticing more and more people every year, isn't it From? You know different levels of running and I suppose, like you say, do many people even pay attention to that when they look at the race. You know they see the name of the race and they probably don't even notice that the sponsor is what it is, perhaps. So to some people it might just go straight over their head, and then to the race organiser, it's like win-win, it's not really you know, in some ways, that the coverage of this conversation has kind of elevated, it, hasn't it?

Speaker 3: 36:49

in regards to the race?

Speaker 2: 36:50

I mean, I think, I think I mean from memory. The only announced this year is a sponsor. Quite late, you know well, after ever spent years collecting their running stones and absolutely no one can boycott at that point because of the sponsor.

Speaker 3: 37:09

Yeah, I have a friend. I have a friend who has been trying to get in to do the CCC for goodness knows how long and he's there now. So he's racing on Friday. But I, Dave, was never going to boycott for the sake of a sponsor. He's so desperate to do the race.

Speaker 3: 37:28

And it's worked so hard to get to that point. He's like it's all he wants and that he's not. You know, given the fact that they're sponsored by DATURE, a second thought so they've potentially been quite clever in the sense of it was a last minute unveiling of their new sponsor and no one was going to be able to do anything about it.

Speaker 2: 37:51

Yeah, yeah, probably.

Speaker 1: 37:55

I feel like I perhaps boycott UTMB just for the price of the races now. I mean, I almost feel a little bit like ultra running is going down an elitist path with the price of some of the races. I mean UTS is. I think the early bird price for the 50k is £159, just for the 50k, and then to 270 for the, for the 100 miler. I mean that's, that's some serious cash to enter a race. Yeah, yeah, and you've got to be one of those just to put the same.

Speaker 2: 38:33

But it's the same way across all sports, right? Well, I say all sports, I mean Ironman Triathlon, for example. Is is obscene. It makes UTMB running races seem like cheapest chips.

Speaker 3: 38:48

Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1: 38:52

Yeah, Beth. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Faye, have you got any more questions?

Speaker 3: 38:59

I just wanted to ask you one more thing, and you know it's quite another big question, but you can answer it as you like. But do you think or can you see yourself with the way things are racing again at any kind of level or distance in the near future? Is it something that's on your radar? Is it something you're thinking about?

Speaker 2: 39:26

Not in the near future, but in the future, the longer term future. Yes, yes, I can. It's not like I've given up trying to rehab this injury, like we're still working systematically through different kind of treatment strategies and things. So I do feel optimistic that at some point I'll be able to run again, but it's not in the near future, no.

Speaker 3: 39:54

But that's good news, that's good to hear, and you're thinking about it and it's there, and you said you're working towards that rehab.

Speaker 2: 40:03

Yeah, I mean, I don't have a crystal ball, so I don't know for sure and there's no like magic solution. But but yeah, like it's not like I've given up, we're still. We're still working on things and I'm reasonably optimistic that at some point in the future I'll be able to run again. But but, as I said before, in the meantime life goes on and, yeah, I'll keep pursuing other passions and other things in the meantime. That's how good.

Speaker 1: 40:37

I'm not going to say, if I'm going to say, when you are back, are there any particular races that you are eyeing up, any particular challenges that you've? You've got, you know, sort of one eye on for when you do return.

Speaker 2: 40:48

No, not at all Like I couldn't care less about races, or like the motivation to run again is is just like the day to day you know just been able to go for a run with my friends or my dogs, or like I really. I really my motivation to run is absolutely nothing to do the races or anything like that. I don't have any thoughts about that at all.

Speaker 1: 41:16

Love that Great. Well, beth, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. It's been an absolute pleasure and you know I know I will definitely be looking out for you, you just being back out running again. You know whether you stood at the start line for another race again or not, I don't really care either. I just want to see you back running because we know, we know we can tell from your words and the way you speak about running that you do miss it, and we know you'll be back. So thank you, beth.

Speaker 2: 41:47

Thanks, that's very kind.