Imogen Leaver on Letting Go of Comparison and Building a Life You Love

Imogen Leaver’s transition from your standard 9-5 admin role to Britain’s Next Top Model to Hollywood stunt superstar is nothing short of amazing.

She opens up about navigating the pressures of the modelling industry, embracing her imperfections, and finding purpose in a demanding and thrilling career. 

Together, we explore the importance of self-love, celebrating your wins, and staying true to yourself, even when the world tries to tell you otherwise.

This inspiring conversation is the perfect way to reflect on the year gone by as we look ahead to 2025! Enjoy x

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Transcript

Hello deluluigans, welcome to Dazed & Delulu. Can you believe that this is Episode 4 of this podcast. If you’re tuning in for the first time, welcome to the chaos that is Dazed & Delulu, you’re in for an absolute treat! 

And if you’re a regular around here, you’ve probably got the vibe by now that we chat a lot of shit but hopefully some of that resonates with you, makes you giggle or helps you reflect on your own personal journeys or perhaps just the shit show of my life might make you feel a little bit better about yours.

Either way, I just want to say thank you so much again for being here for trusting me with your time and tuning into the conversations.

It does actually mean everything to me that I get to be the voice inside your head and your ears as you go about your day.

How creepy anyway, moving on. This week I sat down with the wonderful Imogen Leaver and honestly I absolutely adored this conversation.

It just made me think so much about my own life.

Everything that she said was so beautifully put with great advice and I think it's very fitting for the final episode of the year 2024.

I think it's amazing to have goals, but to always be chasing a goal and never be happy in the present or be content with what you have.

I think is where people's happiness drops.

Now, Imogen, who is the sweetest human, by the way, the most down to earth, beautiful person, we spoke a lot about reflection and before we dive in, I want to invite you to take a moment to reflect on your year.

Think about all your experiences, the highs, the lows, everything in between.

Maybe you had a mediocre year or perhaps you had your best year yet.

Perhaps you fell in love, you landed your dream opportunity or you just simply discovered something new about yourself. Or maybe it wasn't the year you expected and it broke you in many ways.

Maybe you didn't achieve everything you hoped for, but the best bit is there's always time.

There's always time for a revival.

Life doesn't always go to plan and that's okay.

Thats why we make new plans or we just cruise along as long as you're happy and if you're not, you know what you need to do to become happy, then that's all that really matters.

And one saying that I'm vetoing here on Dazed is New Year, New Year or New Year New Me.

Try saying New Year more me, more learning, more growing, more evolving, more loving yourself or being kind to yourself because you've got this, and happiness and success looks different for everybody.

We all have our own time lines and this is something that me and Imogen touch on a lot.

Don't compare yourselves to anybody else.

Just think about what it is that makes you happy and go after it wholeheartedly.

At the end of the day, it's just another year.

You can start a new year at any time of day, any time of the month.

It really doesn't matter.

I also just want to wish you a very merry Christmas and a happy healthy New Year.

I know that this time of year can be hard for some and it's not always the most wonderful time of the year, sometimes it's not always the best time for people and it brings up a lot of shit.

For me personally, if you want to feel better about yourself, I'm a brokeass bitch and people will literally be getting lumps of coal this year. And I also feel particularly single in December, despite being single every month of the fucking year, it just seems to hit so much harder in December.

So if you're feeling festive as fuck and you're singing Mariah Carey at the top of your lungs, I'm so over the moon for you, but if like me, you're feeling a little bit flat, just remember it's just another day and it'll be over as quick as it comes, a bit like sex if you're a woman.

So I got you boo.

If you're not feeling it, I totally get it and if you're dancing around your Christmas tree, then that's also great too.

But if we have a roof over our head and a Christmas dinner with all the trimmings, then we really should come ourselves pretty lucky.

So I'm sending you all the love and good vibes to you and yours for this year and into the new year and I will see you all in 2020 fucking five.

God bless us everyone.

Now let's get into the episode.

When life gets messy, we get Delulu. Buckle up bitches.

It's time for a chat. Because this is Dazed & Delulu.

Welcome back to another episode of Dazed and Delulu.

I'm so excited for this week's guest because we are so lucky to have the amazing and wildly talented Miss Imogen Leaver with us.

Now you might remember Imogen from Britain's Next Top Model, but what you might not know is that she's actually appeared in some epic blockbusters, including Tenet, Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them, Spider-Man and most recently Deadpool and Wolverine.

You may have seen her without even realising it, she's often the one behind the scenes pulling off jaw-dropping stunts.

Today we're going to be chatting about the pressures of looking a certain way in the modelilng industry, the ups and downs of being a stunt performer and what success really looks like in today's world.

Imogen, welcome to Dazed & Delulu, thank you so much for being here.

Hi i'm so happy to be here.

This is so nice.

Oh thank you i can't really get actually here and this is actually happening.

So can you share a bit about your journey so far, life after school leading up to Britain's Next Top Model, what inspired you to take your career path?

Yeah, I guess, sort of, when you're at school, I just feel like looking back, you've given such a narrow avenue of jobs to take, it was lawyer, doctor, dentist.

You know, it was all those sort of, I went to Southend High School for girls, so it was very much like education first, and that's what you do.

You go to university, you get a degree, you get your career and that's it.

And I just always knew that wasn't me, but I didn't think I had any other options, so I left school.

I started working as an insolvency administrator and just spent my days like making people redundant and talking about redundancies and businesses going under and it was just the most depressing environment.

Yeah it sounds it.

And after about six months I remember I was sat next to the girl.

Nikki, who I used to work with and she was, we got on really well, but she used to say, you're like a butterfly trapped in a glass jar, like this isn't for you.

Like she was like, I don't know what you need to be doing, but this isn't it.

And I always felt the same way.

And I've been working at Abercrombie and Fitch before I started my full time job and sort of kind of opened the world of like a lot of people were models or actors and you know just doing creative jobs and just felt like that was somehow destined for me

But I didn't know how it was gonna work and and I think it was one day on my lunch break.

I was you know just wandering probably going to get a Starbucks or whatever I was doing and someone handed me a card saying like we're scouting for Britain’s Next Top Model - come and audition. So I remember like telling my parents and my parents are amazing and always supportive, but they're very much like nine to five, like get a structure, have a job, that's how you're supposed to live.

So my dad was like, "Well, I'll take you to the audition."

But obviously you've still got to do your job.

But by this point, I'd actually already handed in my notice.

I had four weeks, I had to work the four weeks of my notice period, but I was just like this isn't me.

I just know that even if nothing happens from this audition, I just cannot, I can't continue in this world.

So I went to this audition.

It was a Chelsea football club.

I was like, "I don't I remember we were waiting for four hours and there was just thousands of girls there.

And I finally went in for my audition, did it, left and I was like, you know, great experience but like there was a lot of girls there so like, you know, just really good that you got asked kind of thing.

And I was like thinking, no, they're going to call me and he was like, well, I'm Anyway, they called me back and I went through the next round of auditions and the next round of auditions, I think there was like six of us at a time in a room and then they would ask like one or two people to stay back and I got asked to stay back then.

And then I went through to the next round of auditions and it was, I think, there was like 90 of us but essentially bought onto the sort of final stages before the TV show like began and when there was 90 of us I remember we all turned up and you know probably I don't even know what I wore but probably at the time thought was my best outfit and you know hair and makeup done and we literally walked in and we were all handed a plain black dress and makeup wipes and told hair makeup off hair up and put this dress on so everyone was then suddenly on a level playing field and it was just quite daunting because you're thinking like how am I going to shine?

We all, you know, everyone's like the same right now.

And then we were all given 30 seconds in groups of 10 to just find the camera, find your angle.

It was like we just had a 30 second shoot and there was 10 of us and you were just competing to try and like...

Yeah, I don't know shine and I guess like get noticed.

And from that 90, they then whittled it down to, I think it was maybe 30 of us.

Yeah, I'd say 30 or like 25, 30 of us that went through to like another set of photoshoots the next day.

And then from that, there was 13 of us that went into the house.

So it was just like crazy and then from that I came third which was mental and then got signed with Nev's modelling agency and started modelling and one of my first photo shoots was actually with your dad.

That's actually insane!

Yes, so for context my dad is a photographer and this is how Imogen and I have come to know each other.

So it's so funny that he was the first one that you shot with.

Yeah.

Did you have any experience of modelling before you went on to BNTM?

No, not really.

I mean, I'd done like.

You had so for context.

You had no experience and you came third in one of the biggest modeling competitions in the UK.

It's bizarre and I look back and I just think it's actually such a wild experience, like everything that we had to do in that show was just like so, like beyond anything I'd ever done before, or like I'd literally done a couple of student photo shoots for a friend.

That was it.

And then suddenly I'm thrust into this world where... just, you know, like naked and doing a nude shoot, doing a shoot inside the London Aquarium, like doing in one of the tanks, going to Ireland, shooting with like birds of prey, like just doing these crazy things, and I've just like taken it all in my stride and I think you have to be like that sometimes.

I think it's only when you stop and look back and you're like, wow that was actually quite a quite cool thing to do.

Yeah that's an amazing experience to have so how old were you when you went on to the show?

I was 18.

You were only 18.

I knew you were young but 18.

Yeah, I had my 19th birthday whilst we were filming.

That's insane.

So what was some of the biggest challenges that you found like during the show?

I mean, I guess, firstly, it's TV as well.

So there's always going to be an element of like trying to create drama, trying to create situations.

Like the 13 of us were put in one bedroom.

So they were just bunk beds and we were all in one bedroom, clothes galore, like all one bathroom as well.

So just like already like, you know, 13 girls in a room and a one bathroom, it's going to cause some dramas.

And I just think it's the different personalities, but I think I've always been quite a laid-back person and just want to get on with everyone and just have a good time really.

So I think that definitely helped me because I don't think I take, I take things seriously, but not to the point where I'm not going to enjoy myself or not going to be able to relax and have a good time.

So what was the experience like after the show?

You've come third.

You're leaving the show. Yeah, it was quite a whirlwind because whilst we were filming I wasn't allowed to say what I was doing obviously and we finished filming.

I think it was around April time but the show wasn't being aired till I I'm gonna say September. So throughout that time, I remember obviously Facebook was a really big thing at the time.

So my friend had had my Facebook account and pretended I'd been on a ski season while I was actually filming, just so that people wouldn't ask questions.

And then afterwards people were just being like, asking me about my ski season and stuff and I'm trying to keep up this story and then I'm like, have, you know, sort of almost having to go back to, you know, normal life for a bit, but I didn't really know what normal life was and I couldn't sign with an agency until the show was aired.

So it was like a really weird sort of limbo period that summer.

And then once the show started and I got signed my agency, I just started working right away and I was, I was with Nevs for like eight years and worked really consistently and had some amazing experiences, amazing clients, and yeah, it was just like a complete 180 of my life.

Yeah, and definitely much more fun than the Insolvency Agency, I would imagine.

So what kind of pressure did you feel to look a certain way while on the show on the modelling?

Because obviously in the modelling industry it can be quite the cutthroat.

Obviously you were very young when you were exposed to that.

So did you feel like a certain pressure to look a certain way?

Yeah, I think I definitely did but I think I probably wasn't so consciously aware of it at the time.

I think social media definitely wasn't such a big thing.

Don't think Instagram was even, was even a thing at that point.

So as much as I was those pressures, I think...

They definitely got worse as the time went on.

But looking back, like some of the comments I would get on the show, I wear contact lenses, but at the time I just wore glasses.

I didn't have contact lenses.

I remember that I would always try and put my glasses on for the sort of results show just so I could see my images.

And the judges would always be like, "Oh, you're just so awful when you put those glasses on.

Oh my God, you're just not a model."

Like, all these things.

And it's like, for an 18-year-old girl, they're just... really like awful things even if you don't immediately take offense they sit with you and they stay with you and those things play on in your head so you know I remember like after the show straight away I was getting contact lenses and you know it's probably something I would have done anyway but it's like it's a knock on effect from everything in your life and even when I started modeling I would always say I've got a really thick skin things don't affect me but then I'm looking back and realizing I would just have a small tupperware pot of nuts with me and that would be my daily food out and about instead of lunch I'm having that.

Maybe I'd have breakfast and I would have a dinner but I'm having nuts during the day because I'm around other girls who are clearly also being affected by pressures of being a certain size, being a certain shape.

And I definitely think it's a lot better now.

It's not 100% what it should be at all.

Yeah, it's crazy sort of the things you will do.

And I, you know, I was tiny when I look back then.

And like, at the time, probably would have still told myself I was too big or too this.

And because I'm going to castings where I'm being told, oh, you're the butch girl, oh, you're too big for this.

Like, I'm No, you're never gonna fit in this unless you lose X amount of weight.

You were told that oh yeah to my face constantly you are tiny you were tiny you are tiny I cannot believe that they would have that and to be fair I don't think that these reality shows have aged well that obviously the whole thing with Tyra banks everything and the amount of pressure that she used to put on those girls that hasn't aged well. I can't believe that people actually said about your glasses and then obviously the first thing you wanted to do is get contact lenses and because you are so young and you are so impressionable at a young age.

How do you feel now looking back at that girl?

I feel mixed emotions.

I do feel a lot of sadness because I wish I could just go back and just like, you know, like shake myself and say, "Listen, you're in charge of your own life."

Like, not your agents, not these judges, not this person, not that person.

Like, it's your life, you're in charge of it.

And I think, you know, especially being at a model agency, you sort of yourself employed and you are working for the agency.

They are getting work because of who you are.

But in your head you're like, "Oh no, it's the agency.

I can't say this, can't do that."

And you just start to conform and do all these things and become maybe this person that isn't truly you.

And I just feel like now, like, you know, I don't really do much modeling now.

I'm quite selective if I get a client I've loved for years or, you know, a photographer I've loved for years, your dad or whatever.

But it's like, I'm so much more confident myself and I love the images I can create now because it feels like me.

When I look back on those pictures of when I was so young, I'm like, I don't even know who that girl was.

She just had no clue.

Because she was just thrust into this world and then you've just been berated this, told this, told that and it's like you can't even, yeah you don't even get time to realise who you are.

Do you think that that comes with age, like you say that you know yourself better now, do you think that only comes with age?

I definitely think age massively changes everything.

You grow, you learn, you evolve.

But I also then see like... these incredible teen, early 20-year-olds achieving all these incredible things in life.

Maybe it happened out of pure luck or maybe it's because they've got that sense of security and knowing who they are and having the support around them to just succeed at that point.

So I think there's definitely both sides of it, but I definitely think, yeah, as you get older, we just, especially once you reach your 30s, I think you're just like that security, like knowing who you are is just amazing.

Oh yeah, 100%.

I completely agree with that.

Like in my 20s, I was a lost little soul.

And sometimes I think I still am, but there comes with, a level of calmness about it because you know yourself a little bit better.

But how do you think the beauty standards are now compared to what they were like when you first started?

Do you think they're changing or do you still think that there's a lot of unlearning that needs to be done when it comes to pressure on women?

I think it's...

I don't know if it will ever change truly.

I just think it's at the moment getting worse than ever, I just think the pressure of like being looking at certain way or feeling you need to look at certain way or be a certain way is so strong because I think social media number one is to blame.

And number two, the accessibility of cosmetic surgery.

Like...

I just think that's it's everywhere.

It's everywhere you go now.

People are offering you Botox and fillers and this and that and like just I just see so many young girls like.

Clearly do not need Botox or fillers and they're just doing all these things their face and their appearance and their body because they believe that's how they should look.

And that, like, it breaks me a bit.

I mean, listen, I'm all for whatever makes you happy, do it.

But if it's for you, like, are you doing it because that's something you truly want?

Or are you doing it because that's something you believe that you should be doing?

And that's what other people want.

And I think that's a massive concern of mine right now, just because it just seems like everywhere you look.

It's all about changing your appearance.

It's all about looking like this or doing this or having this treatment done or having that treatment.

There's something new constantly coming out and... you know, you have people with huge platforms on social media, essentially highlighting these things and making out like they're an incredible thing to do and that's what everyone should be doing.

And also it's expensive.

How are 18 year olds finding that money?

I know that's what I was thinking like I could have barely afford like my Tamagotchi when I was young I don't understand where people were getting money for fillers but also the fact that they are having it so young like your face changes so much I mean my face is so different now than it was in my 20s because obviously I had like you have like little puppy fat why would you want to get rid of that like and your skin is so healthy and fresh and rejuvenating and it's like don't stop that.

I have a love-hate relationship with social media because obviously I work in it.

But do you think that if we didn't have social media that we wouldn't have so much pressure or do you think that we would still have that kind of pressure coming in from magazines or from the telly or whatever, which is kind of what we had before socials?

Yeah, I think growing up, I mean if you look back on like some of the magazines we had growing up, like it would be constant of like... body of the week or like fat shaming and like there would always be these images on the cover especially when it comes to women of like caught a beach body on you know and oh someone's got celibate someone's got this so like that was a toxic situation and I'm really happy that that kind of narrative has changed when it comes to magazines but then I just think it's it's disguised in different ways.

I just think it's still there.

Um, especially with social media.

And I think I've definitely sort of, you know, the last year or so.

Not fallen out of love with social media.

I still appreciate it for what it is and what it can do.

And I think it's an incredible tool.

But I used to be so active on there.

And I, you know, that used to be part of my business posting on social media.

You know, I would create content for brands and.

And I still do time and time, you know, from time to time, but I just feel like it can be really damaging.

And I, you know, I find myself start going through social media and comparing, and comparing, and comparing myself to other people.

And then I'm thinking, you know, What am I doing?

I only post the good stuff on social media.

Someone else may be doing this on my page.

Like, it's just, it's a highlight reel.

And I think I just have to remind myself of that constantly.

It's so easy to get sucked into the glamour of it.

It is.

And obviously with your job, I would imagine that there is an element of social media promotion that you kind of have to participate in that you can't really get out of.

Do you choose to share much of your personal life outside of work these days or do you find yourself taking more of a break?

Yeah, I think I definitely take a massive break from sharing my personal side.

Listen now and again, I'll share a highlight of, you know, we're out of friends birthday or doing something, you know, I'll share highlights like that.

But I don't think I've ever truly, shared really personal things on social media.

I think I've always had that barrier in place.

I think it's just healthy for me and that's what I need to put myself first in that scenario.

But then, equally, I love following some people that are so open and share every little detail of their life and I will always follow people like that.

So it's so really interesting that, I love to see that from certain creators, but then from myself, I'm like, "I'd like to keep that door shut."

Yeah, it's personal preference.

And this is the thing, a lot of times, I think a lot of people share a lot of stuff on social media, like highlight reels and stuff.

And I remember me personally, I got really upset about something. and I posted a story of me crying and then I was like what are you doing take that down and then I was like actually no fuck it I'm not gonna take it down because people need to realise that it's not all matcha lattes and hot girl walks like sometimes it is stressful and I think sometimes I don't know if I would use the word guilty but sometimes I feel like I am guilty of maybe sharing too much but then when I do put stuff like that out there my inbox is flooded with messages that are like thanks for saying that I'm having a really shit time as well and I just I feel like nobody else is.

So I do think that it is nice to be able to share that.

But then I also think that that comes with a level of is she attention seeking so you can just put stuff on social media because you want attention.

And that's never something that I've wanted to do.

The reason I created Dazed & Delulu was to help people feel less alone.

I'm sure people that look at your social media.

I think, oh my gosh, she's got it made.

She's a model, she's a stunt woman, she's got everything.

Whereas obviously you've had your own self esteem issues when you were younger with the glasses and stuff like that, which people would never know unless you were open about it.

So I do think that it is super important to be open when you can obviously and choose to share what you want to share.

But what advice would you give to young girls who may be looking at social media thinking, she's got everything and I've got nothing.

Like what would you say to those girls?

I just think stay true to yourself and comparison really is the thief of joy, use social media as a tool to like support each other like look at what someone's doing and be like that's incredible.

Wow That's amazing for them.

What's gonna be amazing for you?

What's gonna be amazing for me like?

find that thing and do it and do it unapologetically.

Just be yourself and live in that moment and do what makes you happy.

Because if you're happy and you're doing something you love, that's going to shine ten times over and it's going to spill out into that amazing positive energy and you're just going to generate more and more and more amazing things around you.

And I think... that's so important to do that.

And I think it's, yeah, like what you say, it's so important to be vulnerable as well, and be honest.

Like I do think that's such a key thing to do.

And I think for a long time, my social media just felt very like two dimensional, especially from like the modeling side of things.

I just felt like modeling and content and brand deals and this and that and it just didn't feel true to me.

So I think that's where I lost the the feeling that I could be vulnerable and more open and honest and more myself and more personal on it because I felt like it was a detachment from me.

So I think trying to find that balance with it now is where I'm at.

But yeah, I think anyone's starting out.

Anyone just young and wanting advice, just find something you love and...

Stick to it and don't care what other people think.

Exactly and that's a massive thing.

Try not to care what people think because we all care so much about what people think.

People that we don't even know their opinion does not matter.

They're probably not even thinking twice about you so don't think twice about them.

Exactly.

You've come on a long way from doing modelling so you're now into stunt work.

So how did that come about and what was that transition like for you?

So it is quite random.

It was never something that I really even had a clue about.

I've always loved film and TV, but I never knew about the jobs and the availability of that world.

And going back to school, I wish at school, I knew about all of the jobs that come with the film set.

There are hundreds of jobs on a film set, and it's such an incredible world to work in, and I just wish there's more you know, knowledge of that when you're growing up, you know I think that would be incredible.

But I was, so still with my modeling agency at the time, but I'd started going to acting lessons because I kind of felt like I wanted to do something a bit more, you know, I wanted to give a bit more.

I just felt like the modeling just kind of felt.

There was a limit to it for me.

And then I got an audition for Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them.

And they wanted a body double for the lead actress Katherine Waterston.

They needed someone in my shape and size.

So I went in, I met with all the various departments and essentially was offered the job on the spot.

And it was six months of work and that, for me, like for someone who was self-employed and working like week to week no idea what I was doing.

I was like, wow, that's this is a lot.

So I met with the stunt team and sort of they put me through like a bit of an assault course.

I did a couple of bits, you know, getting on a wire and some other little bits and pieces, which was all brand new to me.

And I just thought, this is amazing.

This is incredible.

I want to do this.

How do I do this?

So I just started looking into it, finding out about the BSR, which is the British Stunt Register and how you become a trainee on that and the training regimes and all the different things that come with it and the skills that I would need in order to progress in this industry.

So I just started training. I feel like I'm just ever learning, ever growing.

It's such an incredible, incredible, I now absolutely love it.

So do you have to undergo a lot of training for it?

Because it sounds to me like, obviously we have a mutual friend in James and I know that he was always like gymnast, acrobat or whatever.

So did you ever have an experience like that or would you literally just thrown into it and you had to just go training under the job?

Yeah.

Yeah, so I feel like I obviously didn't come into it as a gymnast like I wasn't a gymnast growing up.

I always had a high level of fitness, I was a track athlete growing up and then I got injured and so started picking up boxing.

So I was doing that alongside just as a way of keeping keeping fit really.

So yeah initially I was like right.

There's so many skills that you need really and I think you can never have enough skills as well in different areas.

I think the more the better.

So I started doing maui Thai and then hapkeeto.

I was also doing precision driving and stunt driving courses.

I have been doing, I've done my padi dive master, which is like the highest level of patty that you can get before you become an instructor.

So that, you know, is umpteen, like dives and a lot of cold water dives in the UK and also rock climbing.

I mean, there's, you just, the list is honestly endless.

Like I just think like you can never learn enough.

And especially when I was in the US, there was a lot of stunt gyms available, which was great.

So, it was a lot of like training facilities specifically designed for stunts, which was really, really great to be a part of, because you just follow your part of the community and everyone's working towards the same goal.

And what was the most exciting memorable scene that you've done, I won’t make you pick favourites but.

Yeah, that's the thing I've been really lucky.

I've worked with some amazing people and had opportunities to work on some amazing projects.

I think Tenet will always stand out as a massive highlight for me.

George Cottle who was he's the second-year director and Stunt Co-ordinator.

I've worked with a lot.

He stunt coordinated Tenet, and I mean, working for Christopher Nolan anyway, like it was a massive, like, bucket-list moment.

He's an incredible director and I'm a massive fan.

But just like, the whole energy of that set is like, there's no phones on set, no chairs on set.

Like, we're all here to do a job, like we're all here to work hard.

And like, we really worked hard like I mean, there’s a particular scene at the end of that film where they're in the desert is like a big military scene and we shot that over three weeks in Eagle Mountain which is sort of way out in in the desert towards of between California and Arizona and you know we were having 3am call times like getting in the mini bus to work like getting on set for 6 30 a.m. Like working till the sunset going back like sleeping, getting up doing the same thing and it's 106 fahrenheit, which I don't know the conversion in Celsius, but it's like, I think it's like in the 50s, like it was so hot wearing like these thick military outfits.

Layer upon, layer upon layer, heavy weapons, like just running up and down and not only are we running forwards, we're running backwards for everything because the whole film had this whole multi dimensional like time layer so.

It was so intense but just such an incredible experience and prior to shooting in the desert, you know, I'd been travelling for sort of the best part of six months all over Europe with that film and it was just, yeah, it was an incredible project and something I'll always remember.

And then more recently, Deadpaul, which was all shot here in the UK, we started in summer.

We then had the film actors union strike in the middle of it.

So we went back November last year and shot through to February.

And...

Minus 7, I’m driving a car with no windscreen, no windows, no nothing in this costume with my arms out.

Freezing it starts hailing, I'm driving at 40 miles an hour and hitting my face.

I felt like a rock and then got to do a really cool stunt where I slid the car into the arena through the fire explosion, slide the car in.

That's the hero moment where you see all of like... the cast like Blade, Electra, Gambet and X23 coming out with Deadpool, Wolverine, so that was a pretty cool moment.

Crazy.

And are you pretty fearless would you say?

Or was there like when you first started versus now would you say that like you're completely fearless?

Or is this an element of like shit?

Can I really do this?

Because that to me sounds terrifying.

I think there's always an element of fear and I think that's a good thing.

I think if I was completely fearless.

I think that adds another element of danger, I feel like you need to understand the risks and be confident in yourself that you know you can do it, but also have that sort of like butterflies that you can kind of like, okay adrenaline moment, because I think that's important as well. you're working as a team, you're working with a group of people who you know all understand the risk that we've all got everyone's gone through and rehearsed and planned out that moment perfectly and you know, we need to make sure it's done to the highest degree of safety without anything going wrong.

It just has to, everything has to work.

Every part of that team and every department has to have everything to a top level.

It's something that I would so love to just witness.

What's a typical day look like on a set?

Say if I was to come down and watch you, what would I be seeing?

I mean, it really depends what day.

Honestly, some days you might just see us all just sitting inside a tent waiting to be called to set.

Other days, you know, we're kind of maybe just doing a rehearsal situation, so we're moving mats and boxes and setting up rigs that are like a demo setup of what's going to happen on the day.

So then we're just rehearsing things, or it may be a day where it's full action, there's explosions, there's pyro, there's that, there's everything going on, it's all hands on deck and everyone's getting involved.

It really, really depends in you know like.

It's, I think it always like it blew my mind the first time I went on to a set just how much goes into a film, how many people are on set and like how long each day is and like, you might see this one scene and it might be like 10 seconds of the film and you're like, God we spent three weeks doing that like yeah it is quite insane but it's also such an incredible feeling like seeing something that you've had a hand in creating or like been a very small part but it's like wow like we all really came together on that and created something quite special.

Yeah I can imagine that it would be amazing and obviously when you get to go to the film premiere and actually watch it, it must be such a euphoric feeling to think that you played a part in that so it's a really really cool job I iterally am in awe of you.

You never know as well like you go to watch it and like is that scene even gonna you know you don't even know if it makes the cut until you go and watch it and then you're like oh they cut that bit out oh that was I took us so long to do but oh they kept that bit in that's amazing yes you just never know like how it's gonna be edited.

So haveyou ever felt particularly star-struck by anyone that you've worked with?

Yeah, I don't think so.

I think I just... yeah, I mean, it's obviously incredible to work with these people, but I always just think, you know, they're just people.

They're just like that.

And I think once you get to know them, you understand that even more.

They are just... normal human beings just doing amazing things and yeah.

And are there any stunts or projects that you're hoping to tackle in the future?

Do you have any dream roles or any dream films that you'd love to be a part of?

Ah, yeah, I mean I would love to work with Christopher Nolan again, I think that would definitely be up there.

I would love to be a Bond girl.

I think that's my ultimate dream.

Would be being a Bond girl, that would be a real dream of mine.

And then I'm a massive Harry Potter fan.

So doing fantastic beasts in the first place was a bit of a freak out moment.

But now they're doing the Harry Potter TV series.

I've got no idea where I would fit into the mix.

But I'm like surely there's some sort of role I could play there.

Well manifest it for you.

I can see you as a bond girl.

Manifestation.

So obviously with the demands of modelling and stunt work, do you find it challenging to have a personal life?

Are you dating at the moment?

How do you navigate that balance?

I think it's definitely hard when you're on a film and you're on that project for six months or whatever three months, four months, whatever it is.

Because during that time, okay, generally we work Monday to Friday, but for example on Deadpool it was pretty much doing Monday to Saturday every week. we would be up at 4 a.m. getting home at 7, 7.30, maybe 8 p.m. by the time, you know, depending on the location.

It's like you don't really have much of a life in that time.

And even when the weekend comes around, you're absolutely exhausted.

I actually met my boyfriend on Deadpool, so we spent a lot of the time together, which was great, because if I tried to date anyone else, or spend time with anyone else, it just would not have happened, because most of the time we weren't doing anything other than literally having dinner and going to bed, but it was like, there was that element of quiet time and downtime together, which was so nice to have, because it's also someone who understands the industry and understands you know, the level of sort of hard work and dedication that goes into those projects.

And I think we both have the understanding, like this year alone, like, I was away for eight weeks working.

He's been away for 10 weeks working and it's like you have to have that understanding of what the other person does.

And I think, obviously, I have dated people that aren't in the industry, but I guess maybe it hasn't worked out for those reasons that like, it's like, I'll be, I'll be around if I'm not working, I'm around and I'm available to do whatever.

And then suddenly I get on a job and people don't see me anymore.

Like my friends understand it because it's like, oh no.

We just literally won't hear from her or see her for weeks on end.

It's like maybe a random weekend like I'll be like, okay?

I'm free.

I can do something.

But yeah, it does take a lot out of you.

So do you think it is easier to date someone who is in the industry and as opposed to somebody who isn't in the industry?

I think that probably comes with pros and cons as well.

I know a lot of people that have really successful relationships within our industry, but then others that hasn't worked out.

And I don't know that I ever set out to date someone within the or be with someone from my industry, but it has just happened naturally like that.

And I think that level I'm understanding massively helps for that.

But then I can also foresee how there would be problems when.

You're both constantly working you're busy how you'd lose that time for one another.

So I think there's there's got to be a bit of a balance with within it, but that's like any relationship, right?

It's give and take and you have to find that balance you have to find that healthy understanding and level of respect for one another.

Mm-hmm.

Do you think dating in your 30s is hard like outside of your industry just as a just as a whole?

Yeah, I mean, I think so.

I think I have a lot of my friends are in relationships, but, you know, I've probably been the one that's been like single the most out of, you know, if I look on the last 10 years in my group of girlfriends as much as I've had relationships.

I've also been here, there and everywhere, working as always been a top priority for me.

And I think just dating in general is tough, especially with social media.

I mean, I haven't personally... use dating apps and had any kind of relationship come out of a dating app, but I have had friends who've got on to get married from dating apps.

But then I can also see the downside of that is people just constantly swiping and judging on that split second image of a some person.

And it's like, if you were in a bar and someone came up to you and... maybe that was that person you just swipe no on.

You've got, I just think that human connection is getting lost a bit with online dating.

Like for me it's always been, I want to meet someone organically, I want to meet them face to face because I'm so much about someone's character and their personality, their sense of humour and who they are.

I don't know how I would see that person on just an image and if I'm just going to swipe no, or swipe you.

I think it's such a...

Again, it's judging someone's appearance.

It's the same back to social media.

We're just going back to that judgment or being programmed to judge people purely on their appearance which I just think is so sad. - It really is.

And images come with a preconception as well.

I do use dating apps, not successfully I must admit.

But if ever they ask for my Instagram, I'm always like, "No, we can move this onto WhatsApp if you want, but I don't want you having my Instagram and having a preconception of me before you've met me or me having a preconception of you."

But I do think, although dating apps were designed to make it easier to date people, I think it's had the complete opposite effect.

If you're not meeting somebody at work, would you meet somebody at bars?

Will people still approach you at bars?

Because I always feel like when I'm out, I don't really get approached.

I would always say the same to be honest, I don't get approached if I ever do.

It's always like, just like, the most random, like, sort of, you know, someone with loads of confidence, but just totally not my type, or like, someone that's just there to just have, you know, maybe they just want to have a laugh or whatever, but it's like, yeah, I don't generally get approached.

And also, when I'm out with my friends, I'm out to be out with my friends.

I don't think I go out to find someone or to meet someone that's never been my intention.

But yeah, I don't know.

It's really hard.

I think.

For me obviously I do a lot of I train a lot I go to a lot of different gym classes I think that would be a good place to meet people.

Just because you're finding people that are like-minded and have the same interests as you but I don't even know where I would say to begin because even when I met my boyfriend now, I wasn't looking to meet someone.

I think that's the best thing.

I was so focused on myself and I moved back from LA the year before.

And I think moving back, I thought it was fine and it was fine, but now I look back.

It was definitely a tough few months because it's like readjusting to my home but I haven't been here in three and a half years and in that time has been a pandemic and the whole world has changed and there was so much going on that it really took me I'd say a year almost from getting back to like really settle back into myself and finding a solid place to live and navigating my life here and getting finding back into the work environment in the UK because.

Again, coming back, I've not been in the UK for a certain number of years.

I've missed connections, and miss this and miss that.

So it's like, I felt like I was starting again a bit.

So I really focused on finding that happiness in myself and being happy with who I am and being content in myself and what's my career doing?

What's my living situation?

Like, how's my life look?

Like getting back into that routine.

I think I was in such a good place with that mentally.

I started therapy when I got back from LA and I just think that was the best thing I ever did.

Like not because I was like, there's one specific thing, but I was like, I just think it's a really, I think it's a really healthy thing to do.

And actually, you start and you realise like, oh my gosh, there's so many things to unpack.

But so that was also something that I'd done and then I just think I was in a really good place mentally and it probably was, you know, where the door was then open to meet someone and to find the right person, but it's sort of interesting looking back and I think we so often just focus on what's next, next, next, what you want and what you want and you don't really look back and actually having this conversation.

It's sort of encouraging me to like really review and look back on things, so its a healthy thing.

And I think it's really great advice because I say this all the time, like the most defining relationship that you ever have is the one that you have with yourself and you do really have to love yourself first.

But I do think that obviously the whole premise of this podcast is unconventional, unapologetic, not living life to society's standards.

But do you think that there is pressure when you hit a certain age, when you're in your 30s, do you think that society is basically saying that you should have met your person, you should be thinking about kids by now because your biological clock is ticking.

Do you feel those pressures?

Or are you quite like removed from that because you're focused on the career and everything?

I think I try my hardest to be removed from that, but it's unavoidable.

I can't tell you how many times over the last few years, people have said to me, “You bot a boyfriend, yet?

When are you going to settle down, you going to get married, haven't you thought about, you know, freezing your eggs or your body clock's ticking, you haven't got long?"

Like, they're just, and it's unsolicited advice.

Like, "I don't need your input in my life.

You have no idea what is actually going on, you know, thankfully there aren't those issues, but you’ve got no idea if I'm able to conceive or not, whether I want children or not, whether I want to get married or not, you know, there's just this assumption that those are the boxes you have to tick in order to like be a part of society.

And for me it's like,yes, I would love to have a family and get married one day, but I also want to enjoy my life.

I also want to have a career I'm proud of.

I also want to achieve things that I feel, okay, great.

I'm now in a place where I can give that sort of energy to a family, to a match, or whatever it may be.

But like, right now I also want to be a bit selfish.

I want to have that focus on myself and I'm not going to feel bad about it.

And just because everyone around me is getting married and having babies doesn't mean I need to do the same, it doesn't mean that I won't do the same at some point maybe.

You know, it's like, everyone's journey is different.

We are all unique.

That is what is so special about humanity.

We are all so different and we just need to stop putting pressure on each other.

And that's the thing I think is not a lot of unlearning that needs to be done because women can have fulfilled lives now that don't involve children.

But there is still pressure coming from people like you say like, "When are you going to settle down?"

The amount of times I've had like, "Oh, so when are you going to meet someone?"

"Don't you think I'm bloody well trying?"

Like, "It's not like I'm not trying.

I'm dating a lot of fuckwits from hinge."

Like, it's just like, "Why do you have to ask?

Do we ask men the same questions?

I don't think we do."

And it's a real shame.

But obviously with your industry and with your career, you hear it a lot from actresses that when they think about having children, they worry about their career or it's the biggest career killer or whatever.

Does that come into your head when you think about kids or not really?

Yeah, I have honestly no idea how I'm going to feel if I was to have a child, how my perspective is then going to change.

Because I am sure it will, to a degree.

Like from speaking with friends of mine, I think your outlook changes a lot.

And I think doing something like stunts where there is a high risk involved, am I going to want to continue doing that when I have a child?

I don't know.

So for me like...

I, my end goal, what I would love to be doing is producing.

I would love to go into producing and be producing my own films and exec producing on films and just helping, you know, that real creation from like day one, like really creating that project.

That's definitely what I see myself going into long term.

I think right now I'm loving doing stunts and doing acting and being in that world and I would want to continue doing that whilst I can because we don't, nothing's promised, tomorrow's not promised, no one knows what's coming.

But yeah, ultimately I'd love to see myself going to producing.

Will I continue doing stunts if I have children?

I have no idea, but I could see how that might change my perspective for sure.

And what advice would you give to women in their thirties who may not have found the one or are still trying to navigate their life on their own?

What advice would you give to them?

I mean we touched on it already but firstly, focus on yourself, love yourself.

Be so content and so happy on your own and with your own company and with your own life and everything you've got going on around you and it will all happen like whatever's meant to be will happen.

I know that's cliche, but I truly believe that.

I truly believe like timing is everything.

If you know, whatever's meant for you will never pass you by.

And I just think like things can change overnight.

Like we think, Oh my God, it's such this big thing.

But you can meet someone and realize they're your person.

Get married, have a baby.

All within a year.

If that's what you want.

You could also just meet someone and just be happy and like be content and be that that's your partner in life.

Like I truly think you to meet someone they should add to your life, they shouldn't take anything away, they shouldn't change you, they shouldn't be hard work, it should just flow, you need to be partners and if it's not that, it's not worth it.

No, exactly, and that's the thing I find a lot of people who might be in relationships, who might have outgrown their relationships, are still very much like, I don't want to be single at this age, I'm just going to stay in it, but it's like, why would the end goal not to be happy?

Never, ever settle.

No.

Never settle.

I'll always say to my friends, never settle, take the risk.

People are so afraid to take risk.

Take the risk, take the chance.

Be alone.

I guarantee you'll be 10 times happier.

And maybe amazing things will start to happen for you when you take that risk.

So obviously you've accomplished so much in your life.

Do you feel like now you have it all figured out?

Or do you still feel like a work in progress?

Oh my god, such a work in progress.

I don't know if I'll ever have it all figured out.

I don't know if anyone will, I don’t  know, do people get to that point?

Because I constantly feel like...

Everything's like I'm just always like a hot mess running around like trying to do 20,000 things at once like that's always been who I am and I sometimes just like telling myself I need to slow down but I just find that so tough as well.

But yeah, I constantly feel like there's so much more out there, there's so much more to do and it's overwhelming, you know, like the world is so big, I want to see so much of the world, I want to travel so much, I want to do so many things and it's like, you know, time is genuinely the most precious thing we have and I just don't want to waste it.

No and I feel like there's just not enough hours in the day especially when you're in like a flow state like if I'm editing a podcast like five hours have gone and I'm like how like it's crazy but what how would you define success?

What does a successful life look like to you?

I think just contentment and happiness.

I think it's amazing to have goals, but to always be chasing a goal and never be happy in the present or be content with what you have, I think is where people's happiness drops.

You know, like, if you're constantly chasing, you're never rewarding yourself and you're never sitting down and accepting what you've done and where you're at in that moment, that's where you lose that element of happiness.

And for me, I think success is just like having your goals, achieving your goals, but also being so content and present in that moment and really being grateful for what you have.

And that's the thing.

I think sometimes we always look at what we don't have and we never think about what we do have or we always look at what we haven't accomplished yet without thinking, "Hang on a minute, well, I've actually done all of these amazing things and there's still so many amazing things that I want to do."

There's time to get there.

I always say this, there's beauty in the becoming.

I think some people are always so focused on the end goal.

They forget to have fun along the way along the journey.

I 100% were all guilty of it.

Even the last few weeks I've been in just one of those mental states where I've been so hard on myself, just berating myself internally for... probably nothing, but you know just not doing enough I should be doing this I should be doing that like constantly feeling like that and then I was driving here this morning and I remember the list I wrote at the start of the year all the things I wanted to achieve this year.

And I realized I've achieved every single one.

Every single thing I wrote down at the start of the year I've actually done this year and it was in that I was like oh.

Maybe my dreams weren't big enough.

Maybe my list wasn't big enough.

Maybe that's why I'm thinking, oh my God, I haven't achieved enough because actually I've achieved it all.

I haven't even stopped to be like, wow, congratulations, well done.

Yeah, that's quite cool.

All with three months to spare.

Yeah.

So, you know, let's fill up those last three months.

Yeah, exactly.

And I think it's so important to celebrate those small wins.

And yeah, I love that you've made a list, but then it's funny that you're like, maybe the list should have been longer.

It's like, you can never just be content when you get to somewhere, can you?

Because you’re always chasing the next thing.

And I think in a world that celebrates perfection, we never embrace our imperfections.

But how do you embrace your imperfections?

Oh my gosh, I have so many.

But I think that's what makes me me and what's yours are what makes you you like if we were all perfect, the world would be so boring.

Our imperfections, what makes us like, I know my brain works in a way that's like a hundred miles an hour and sometimes I can be like, just really like clutsy or clumsy and like forgetful and like all over the place.

But other times my brain will like hyper focus me into things and enable me to get so much done in the day.

I think for a long time I probably would have ignored those things and just been frustrated at myself like, "Why can't you just get this and do that?"

And now I'm like, "No, that's who I am.

That's why I'm successful.

That's why I can do the things I can do because that's how I operate and I need to embrace that."

And then how do you feel, I know that obviously you're away working a lot, but you've got a quite close knit group of girls haven't you?

Yeah, I'm lucky I've got my girls from sort of school era that I'm still close with and then sort of friends that I have gained over the years with it through work or... different experiences in life and yeah I'm very lucky.

I think definitely an age probably similar to you where a lot of my friends are like say married or I've got kids so like they've got a lot of other things going on in their lives but we all still manage to find time for each other even if we're in different countries, you know be a voice note, be a FaceTime or you know even if we don't see each other for six months a year when you do see each other it's like that really you know really important quality time together.

And how important is community and your female friendships?

I think it's so important.

I think you have to be able to build each other up.

You have to support each other.

I have an amazing group of friends that are all in the same industry all stunt performers and I'm we've connected because we support each other, we build each other up, we're so proud of one another and I think that's the strength.

Not the girls that are tearing each other down, that see each other as competition, it's like the strength is it comes from the support, from the love, from that feeling uplifted, feeling supported by your friends.

I think that's so, so important.

It is.

Do you think though as people's timelines move on and it might be different, like you said, like I feel like I'm in a similar position, like a lot of my friends are married with children now, do you worry about like drifting apart because you're no longer on the same path, but like you're no longer necessarily relatable.

Does that make sense?

No, it does make sense.

And I think that's inevitable.

I think, you know, even moving to the US and coming back, like, I drifted away from certain friends in that time.

And I think it's natural.

Like, you gain certain friends in certain times in your life and you may like lose certain friends at other points.

And I think, you know, It can all be for different chapters.

I think like we have all these different chapters of our live and some people are with you for the whole book.

Some people just are in certain chapters.

I think that's okay.

And I think as long as you're okay with accepting that and understanding that you always have love for that person.

But right now maybe you don't add anything of value to each other's lives, or maybe you're just at different chapters, different journeys, and maybe you'll reconnect again, maybe you won't.

But just as long as you are grateful for the time you had, and there's no negative energy, then I think it's It will just open doors for other people to come into your life.

Yeah, I think that's actually a really beautifully way to put it.

I never really thought about that about the chapter of the book.

I love that.

Well, thank you so much for coming on to Dazed & Delulu.

It's been absolutely amazing chatting to you and I really appreciate you making the trek. I know times just flown.

I'm like, I could just chat all day.

Yeah, I know right.

I love it.

And that's the kind of space that I want us to have.

Like, I want us to have important conversations.

Some of the advice that you have given is, so beautiful and it's actually made me think about some of the things in my life and I really do think that everything that you've said is so true and society loves to beat us over the head with expectations but we really are on our own journeys and I think that you're you've been on an amazing journey and there's so much that you should be like proud of for your success and the fact that you even think about not having achieved things, I'm looking at you thinking like wow she's amazing so yeah.

But likewise I could do the same with you, you know me I look at your life and think wow you’re you doing this, this and this, it's like it's again it's that comparison thing.

Yeah it is.

We just need to celebrate each other's amazing successes but not compare ourselves.

Yeah and it's so hard to separate that because we're programmed with social media with everything it's literally ingrained in us you should be comparing, should be comparing, like no, we just should just be uplifting and celebrating each other, because then even better things happen.

Exactly.

Well thank you so much, I really hope to see you as next James Bond girl.

I'm manifesting it for you, I see it happening.

Thank you, me too, and I can't wait to see where Dazed & Delulu goes.

Yes, thank you so much for having me on.

Thank you.

Until next time, stay Dululu.