Lessons in Supporting Family Mental Health with Gwen Gulick

In this heartfelt episode of This Way Up, host Andrea welcomes Gwen Gulick, a resilient mother and wife who has faced significant challenges in her family life. Gwen's journey includes supporting her husband through depression and navigating the complexities of her children's mental health conditions, including depression, OCD, anxiety, and ADHD. On top of these challenges, Gwen and her husband have both battled and overcome cancer.

Gwen generously shares the invaluable lessons she has learned along the way—lessons that have helped her cultivate a family environment filled with joy and love despite the hardships. Tune in as Gwen provides three key takeaways (and more!) from her experience, offering insights that can inspire and support others facing similar situations.

Key Take Aways

• Finding a clear diagnosis may not always be necessary, and it's more important to focus on understanding and managing behaviors.
• Parenting children with anxiety requires finding a balance between protection and exposure therapy.
• Family experiences with mental health challenges can bring them closer together and teach them to prioritize their own well-being over societal expectations. 
• Finding a supportive community of parents facing similar challenges can provide validation and resources.
• Weeding out relationships that are not understanding or supportive is important for the well-being of the family.
• Prioritizing family and not waiting for the dust to settle allows for living life despite challenges.
• Families for Depression Awareness offers resources and support for families living with depression and bipolar disorder.

BIO
Gwen works with clients to create thought leadership strategies that build a following and strengthen relationships. Some of her best work has been with purpose-driven executives intent on making a positive mark on the world. She brings expertise in thought leadership, holistic strategy, executive coaching, and story weaving.  Prior to founding Quickstep, Gwen worked in marketing and public relations at Harvard Business Publishing, Pegasystems, and tech PR firm Horn Group. Her past client work includes ATG, Cognos, Netegrity, MIT, Information Builders, Oracle, Poly, and Zoom. 

Personally, Gwen is committed to helping families living with mental illness through community outreach and her volunteer board position with national non-profit Families for Depression Awareness. A cancer survivor, she participates in the Pan-Mass Challenge ride for Dana Farber Cancer Institute. Her favorites include cycling, lake swimming, conversations with people over age 80, and singing in a local community chorus. A midwestern transplant, she lives in Harvard, Massachusetts with her husband Tag, two teens, and two dogs.

References and RESOURCES
@FamiliesforDepressionAwareness @familyaware @QuickstepCommunications  

Transcript

Today we are joined by Gwen Gulick who is making a big impact on so many families through her community outreach and her volunteer board position with the Families for Depression Awareness. She is going to give us a personal glimpse into her journey, navigating her family that has been plagued by mental health challenges, um, over the years.

And she's going to play Monday morning quarterback and share the lessons that she has learned along the way. Welcome.

Thank you, Andrea. It's great to be with you.

It's great to be with you. Thank you so much for joining us. Um, I would love to first pry into your, your life and if you can give us a little bit of background about your family and the journey that you've been on.

Sure. So I've been married to my husband for about 24 years and we have two kids who are now a sophomore going into junior year of high school and one who is 20 years old and we have been in our household, at least a collection of us have been living with depression, anxiety, ADHD. Um, and for my husband and myself, cancer, um, going through cancer treatment over the past, I would say 15 years.

So it's, it has been a lot of stress and, um, it's almost like you, you gain wisdom and age ahead of time. It's like in dog years, we've been through kind of the gamut of things. And. Um, we have learned a lot along the way. I think in the beginning it was much harder. I was fighting to try to solve everything.

And as we moved through over the years, I learned a lot of really valuable lessons that, you know, as I pick those up, things got easier. And so it's, it's definitely been a journey. I think on this, on this continuum of people living with mental health conditions, I would say we're toward the severe end.

We're a family that is never quite out of it. Um, even the good times we're still kind of keeping things in check and in the bad times we've been in situations where people have been hospitalized and, you know, there've been really intense treatment periods for many of the folks in my family. So. You know, our experience maybe is a little more intense than the average family would go through, but I think a lot of the things we've learned would apply to any, any family that's struggling with anxiety and depression in their household.

Now, just to clarify, you are, you do not currently struggle with any of those. You've got a family that you are managing. Is that correct?

That's correct. I do have ADHD and I have had periods in my life where I have, you know, dealt with some depression and anxiety, but

Well,

my two kids and my husband are the ones who have kind of chronic conditions that we, we manage.

Yeah. So that's, that's tough on you. And of course you would have some periods of time where you have depression and anxiety, right? I mean, your life has been stressful. You mentioned something that it just, I think, I mean, it struck a personal chord with me when you said, uh, there was a period in your life where you wanted to solve everything.

I know I went through the same thing. It was like, okay, I need to fix this. 

 I was going to do anything and everything that I could to fix it.

I mean, I stayed up, I swear, 22, 24 hours a day trying to come up with a solution and it wasn't until I relaxed a little bit and let things happen that I felt like I had, I actually had more control over what was moving forward rather than. control.

think you're probably like me and that you're a successful person who is used to being able to figure things out. I actually, it's something people I work with say, Oh, if something's really challenging and we give it to Gwen, cause she can always get it done. So to be faced with something in your own family that you can't solve is just infuriating.

And I. Did what you did I researched and you know tried to find answers and saw professionals and read a lot and I think it's tricky because mental health conditions are not like other illnesses. They're not clear cut. We spent a lot of time, time trying to get a name for what was happening with our son when he was, you know, he was little, he was six, seven, eight years old.

And we knew there were major things happening and. And the professionals would say, well, at this age, it's really difficult to know if it's anxiety or ADHD or exactly what's happening. And as a parent, it was really frustrating because how you would handle those conditions was quite different.

Right.

we were kind of like, we need a game plan.

What are we supposed to do? And they, they weren't able to give us clear guidance. So I think one of the things looking back, I, I know now is you may not get a clear answer, And if you, if you pin your hopes on, well, once we know what it is, then we can handle it. You may be disappointed because even if you do find out what it is, it may, there may not be an easy, easy path to solve, solve it.

Right.

It's better to kind of look at it, I think, from situation of, you know, what are the behaviors that are happening? What things seem to make it better? What do we need to communicate to school? You know, how do we need to change the way we parent, you know, go on vacation, whatever the things are based on the, the behavior more than what the name of the thing is that your kid is I think I got very caught up in trying to define and Get a clear plan.

And it was never that easy in our house. Everybody has a couple of things, so it's not, it's not very simple. The solutions are not simple. So

know, I was going to ask you how important the diagnosis was for you, but you just answered that in that. Okay. Yeah. It's, it's a nice to know, but a lot of times it's irrelevant

yeah, it is helpful for school. I,

Okay,

for, for, um, to get your child on a, an education plan at school and get additional supports, which for both of our kids was really, really important. You do, it is really helpful to have a diagnosis for that. But it's almost like you should get it for that purpose and then just kind of set it aside and look at your kid individually.

Because even our two kids who have the same diagnosis, it looks completely different for my son than for my daughter. Yeah.

convinced that my parents were parenting. My sister and I completely different when we were growing up because we were so different. And then I had my 2 kids and I realized it had nothing to do with parenting. And everything to do with the child themselves and how they see the world and how they react to the world.

So just like you said, even though they may have the exact same diagnosis, it's how they're perceiving and, and taking in that and then responding to it that matters as a parent.

And I don't know if you've had this experience, but I think every parent thinks that about their kids. Like every kid is different and you can't parent your kids the same way, but it seems like when you deal with anxiety in particular, it just goes more extreme. Like it just, the, the differences and the, um, The way that kids interact with the world is just heightened.

So it really makes a difference how you behave as a parent. I mean, I think that's the other thing is it's really easy to, it's as much as you're trying to be helpful, sometimes helping is the wrong thing, or it can be detrimental to a kid with anxiety. Too much help can actually make them more anxious.

So trying to, you know, back away. At the time where you feel the most urge to jump in and help is, is something that it took us a while to learn and, you know, that's something that definitely I probably would have been more measured about my willingness, you know, my want to jump in and save, save the day.

Right,

have, like, stood back a little bit more when they were younger because I think it, in our case, you know, we were supporting them avoiding things that made them anxious or, you know, just kind of, um, continue, making it continue instead of kind of holding the line and, and showing them that they were strong enough to handle things that made them anxious.

Well, it's hard for you to watch your child be in discomfort. And then that makes you uncomfortable and it's hard to allow yourself to be in discomfort. So, of course, you're wanting to do something, right? Because everybody's uncomfortable and it's just, right?

that is definitely true.

you know, the one thing I, um, when I look at anxiety, I think one of the challenging things as parents is, and it goes against almost every parenting instinct that you have, is this.

Um, therapy, the exposure therapy that you're exposed, you're supposed to expose your child to things that terrify them. But I think this view of parenthood is that we are supposed to protect our kids. So it kind of goes back and forth, right? You're like, okay, I'm supposed to protect my kids, but yet I'm making them see something or expose them to something that is.

It's terrifying and that is actually protecting them from being overwhelmed with, with anxiety. It's just, it's, it's a quandary.

It's true. We went through an intensive outpatient, um, treatment program with my son for OCD. So he developed OCD at one point and they were the masters of ERP. They, they, they did amazingly funny things to, to help him. help kids work their way up to exposure therapy. And so we learned that it wasn't like an all or nothing thing, like, okay, day one, you're going to go do the really scary thing.

You know, it was, they talk about ladders or steps up. Um, it was really important to communicate with our kid about, This is, I, I want you to know, I still see that you're in distress. I'm not deserting you. I just can't do the things that I've been doing to accommodate this anxiety. And so it was really funny.

One of, I remember going to get on the elevator where we were staying and, um, You know, one of the things was he didn't want to touch the elevator button. And so one day we sat in the hallway for a really long time waiting for him to touch the elevator button. And that was like, that was an example of the things, one of the things that was hard for him.

And it was, it took a really long time to work our way up to that. And it was, it would have been much easier to just press the button. You learn how much damage it can do to continue to do things for your kids when they're. you know, their brain is telling them they can't do it when in fact they of course could do it.

So

Right. And that takes a lot of patience as a parent to sit through that and watch that and cause you, you know, you're like, okay, touch it, just touch it here. I can make you touch it, but you don't want to. So yeah, it's tough. I didn't realize you had said that your son had gone through OCD for a period of time.

Um, does that mean that he doesn't? have it anymore or it's just, uh, it's just like in remission or controlled at this

I think he still sometimes has the intrusive thoughts that are such a big part of, of OCD, you know, but he, the treatment was really successful for him. They got him past the point of He still feels the discomfort, but he can manage it, and it doesn't stop him from doing things the way it did. It was extremely bad for a while, and it was ironic because we went through the treatment, and one of the things they told us when we got home is he had a, his was around contamination, so he could go out in the world and touch things and do things, but then he didn't want to bring that back into our house.

So he would need to wash his hands, you know, he wouldn't want anyone from the outside coming into our home, things like that. And so, one of the things they told us when we went home is, you should not wash your hands when you come home from being outside. You should not, like, just things like, show him that you're, you can, you can do less of this and it's still okay.

And then, no kidding, a year later, my husband was going through cancer treatment and had Um, You had to have a stem cell transplant and they went over all the rules. And when we came home from the hospital, when he came home, the kids had to change their clothes and wash their hands. When they came home from school, they had to do all the things. And then

did that trigger anything for him or

we thought it would, but it was okay. And then a year later COVID happened. And then it did, he did backslide at that point. So it was kind of like. We, it was like a cruel joke. We, my husband and I have a very dark sense of humor.

which you have to have,

so we said, of course, of course we would have a pandemic and all need to be like putting on hand sanitizer after we go to the grocery store.

can't, you have to have a dark sense of humor and you have to be able to laugh at that stuff or else you would just. Breakdown. Right.

It's true. It's true. And we, and we'd still do breakdown sometimes. It's, it's not like you get to the other side of things and everything's easy. We still have tough days even now, so

So just curiosity is your husband, both of you had, um, cancer. Correct.

we

How did, how did that, now your husband has depression, is that correct?

He does, yes.

Okay. How did that both of you impact the family? I mean, that's a lot of stress to have loved ones going through such a serious, you know, illness.

would say that it, even though both of our kids will say it wasn't the cancer, I think the cancer exacerbated their anxiety in both cases. Um, so it was me getting cancer was at the same time that my son developed OCD.

Interesting.

our daughter's OCD really came out more pronounced after my husband's stem cell transplant and kind of that, that whole time period.

Um, so I don't think it means that they wouldn't have had anxiety, you know, struggles with anxiety. Otherwise, I just think that it kind of pushed it a little bit more severe than it might've been otherwise. Um, at the same time, it, In a lot of ways, strengthened our family as a unit because, you know, between the challenges with mental health conditions and then the cancer treatment, we kind of just became our own little unit from, you know, and then the pandemic, we were like just us against the rest of the world.

Like we weren't, we were not out and about the way that most people around us were. And so we, I think we got a lot closer. I think we, Um, through all the different treatments and things that we went through, uh, with the kids, we learned a lot of good communication skills. And we, you know, we have two very funny dogs.

So they bring us hours of laughter and entertainment. And so it just kind of changed our dynamic. I think we, we learned to rely less on other people and to be more tuned into what was working for us and not being so worried about what other people thought we should be doing or how we should be handling things because we were just kind of cut off from people for a while

Right.

and it ended up I think for us being not a bad thing in that regard.

Well, I think in today's world, and I mean, gosh, we've always heard it right. There's keeping up with the Joneses and such as humans. We are always looking at what somebody else is doing, and we're always evaluating. Are we doing what is right for our family? You know, are we doing what is right? And we're going to compare it against what other people do and not, not that we wish to have to go through any of this.

However, what a beautiful gift you were able to get out of it. Which was to be able to say, okay, I need to look inward and just focus on what's working for my family and making us happy and us well. I mean, that's, that's a huge, that's a huge gift that I think most people really don't learn until they're almost on their deathbed.

I, it's true and I think it's really easy especially with social media. to compare and to constantly measure your family's happiness and what you're doing against the people around you. Um, and I'm a very extroverted, social, outgoing, like, likes to be involved, likes to participate kind of a person. And so I, sometimes my husband looks at me and he says, I don't know how you ended up with this family.

You really don't go with the rest of us. Um, because I would be out at every party and every, you know, volunteering and doing all those things. Well, the reality is, you know, I've even slowed down and started to realize like, Oh, you know, there's just things that are just not for us. Like we have very good friends who, um, Vacation and family members to that vacation with big groups of families and they go off and they rent the same places every year and they all hang out every evening and, you know, dinner for 30 at a restaurant kind of thing.

right.

My family would hate that it would not be fun. They would feel like so annoyed by the whole process. And. You know, part of me initially used to feel kind of like, oh, I wish we could be in that, you know, crowd. And now I'm just, you kind of accept your family is the way it is, and You need to make the most of what you can do.

So we do different things. One of the big things that happened for us several years ago was, uh, I kind of put boundaries around Christmas for us because we were taking our small son and traveling to. My parents in the Midwest and my husband's parents and, you know, packing everything up and going and or having them come with us and having it be a lot of people and the holidays were really stressful for our son, like he would get very anxious around.

You know, having people watching him open presents and he would get lots of like, have big anticipation about what was going to happen. And he always felt let down and it was not usually a good day in our house. It was kind of hard. And so one year we just decided we're, we're going to do Christmas Eve and Christmas morning, just the four of us, nobody else.

Nobody comes over, we don't go anywhere. And we got a lot of pushback about that. And also just. well meaning friends and family, like, how can you spend Christmas alone? That's so sad. Well, for us, it was just a really natural thing to just take the pressure off that. intense day that has so much emotional buildup. And we found other holidays, other times of the year where we could spend time with family and a more, when there weren't so many high stakes kinds of things happening. And we just completely rewrote how we celebrate the holidays because of that. And still to this day, now my kids could totally handle being with people for Christmas morning, but we all really like that.

We have our quiet time, just the four of us with the

You have your, you have your own traditions,

We do. And it, it took some getting used to, and it took a lot of resetting of expectations with our families. But for us, it was the right call. And it has made that those holidays so much nicer for us, for my husband and me, um, as a result.

So,

Well, that's important. The flexibility and the boundaries and then having to have, I mean, it takes, it takes courage to stand up to your family, right? And say, this is what I need to do for our family. Because you know, I mean, not to rub it in, you know, you're disappointing other people. Right. Bye. But your family is what's most important and the health of your kids long term is most important.

That, I mean, that's amazing. And I think that's a huge lesson, um, to, to glean because it's, it's, and it's not an easy one. I don't think.

yeah. Well, and I think you've probably had similar experiences of like where you all of a sudden will realize you need to set a boundary. Like you, you just, um, you start to resent or you start to feel so much stress. And you know, we try to walk the line of not just letting our kids avoid everything that makes them uncomfortable.

But there were certain times where it was just such a level of anxiety or stress around something that we, we were just, We would look at each other and say, what, what are we doing this for? Like, this isn't good for anybody. And we didn't want our kids to be judged either, to feel less than, or like they weren't equipped, you know, couldn't handle things, um, in the eyes of somebody else.

Because we would measure them always based on what we knew about them and what we knew they could handle. But everybody else is looking at them, comparing them to a typical kid who doesn't have these conditions. It's not a fair measure. To do that. And so it's tough, especially with an older generation that has different expectations in general.

Uh, it was tough sometimes to feel like we were being good parents in those situations. And after a while you just realized like, I don't really care. When people think,

don't you look back now and say you were. incredible parents because I'm looking at you saying you are incredible parents for being able to do all of that, um, and know what's best for your kids. Well, yeah,

that compliment because it feels, you know, we always see the things we could have done better, I guess, but, um, we definitely have dealt with more than typical parents deal with. There's no doubt about that. And we are, you know, our bar is just different too. We had a lot of years where we weren't sure that our son would even make it to 20.

Like we were worried about his, um, getting through the next week. And so to see him be in a place where he's, he's still struggling with certain things, but he's able to do so much, um, and live life. And I don't know, be kind to other people and, you know, be fun to be around and make jokes and go to the movies and do normal things.

Those were things we weren't sure he would get to experience. So

It's amazing right there. Well, and right there tells you that you, you did the, everything you did was right. Even the mistakes you did were right. You know, I mean, really, that he's living a life that's, you know, Nobody lives a life that is completely problem free, but being able to experience joy and happiness, empathy and kindness is, is huge, is huge.

So if you're a parent and you would want to share anything, I mean, you've already given us so many good little tidbits here, but look at me, I'm crying.

Oh,

me that, I'm sorry.

to do that?

It was just so sweet. You know, I'm like, oh,

I'm not.

I just felt the little tear coming down. I was like, oh, okay, I need to get rid of that.

Um, if you were to tell parents anything or give them some pieces of advice, what would you say, you know, looking back and saying, gosh, you know, I just wish I would have done this differently. Or this was something I did really, really well. All other than the things you've already just told us.

Sure. So I think one is that you need to find your people who are in a similar boat, and it could be through the special ed, um, community at your school, if your, if your kid is on a, uh, education plan or a 504 plan, you know, the special ed communities at schools are pretty active and bring in speakers and it gives you the community of other parents.

I found a support group that was for moms of kids who were, um, having just any kind of social, emotional, developmental difficulties in school. And it just, we met once a week in a church hall and just shared what we were living through. And there's something really powerful about being able to share a story that would shock most people and have everybody like smile and nod and pat you on the arm and say, we get it.

Like, that is a very powerful thing. When kids are little, You know, younger kids who have, um, emotional challenges, it can be kind of explosive temper. It can show up in all different kinds of ways. And so to most parents, it looks like, Oh, this kid is just horribly behaved. This kid is, you know, trouble. They don't want their kids to be friends with a kid like that.

They don't want to have a kid like that in their home without adult supervision from the parent. Like it just changes the dynamic of, of what your experiences as a family. So, being around other parents who have had kind of more severe behavior or, you know, health situations is just very comforting. So that's one thing I would say, is to find, in whatever way, online support groups.

There are a lot of those as well. Just people that you can be open with. Um,

it's validating too, right, that you are not only you're experiencing something different, but that it's okay that you are, that your child is experiencing something that may be out of the norm, but it's okay. He's not unusual for, you know, or

right, right, that this isn't,

of those things

Yeah, it just, it normalizes things. And then you also have people to say, Hey, I'm looking for a therapist. Hey, I,

right? You have a

run into this? Do you, you know, you can share, um, local, uh, resources and help. And that's really wonderful too. Like, Oh, can, do you have a list of accommodations for depression that I can put into my IEP with my, you know, that I can take into this meeting or things like that.

Um, another thing I think is out the people who are not your people. So we definitely did some house cleaning over the years where the people that were the best buddies during, you know, the preschool years, it just didn't last when things got tough. And, um, in particular when our son was hospitalized the first time, um, he was having He had a really negative reaction to a medication he took and had started having suicidal thoughts, and he was young.

He was only nine, so he went into an inpatient treatment. for about a week. And we learned that, you know, it doesn't fix anything. It's just kind of a stabilizing thing. And then you still are dealing with similar things when they come home. By the time he went back to school, it had, you know, everyone had been talking.

So the first time I went to a school event after we got, he got home, I was like descended upon by all these well meaning moms who wanted like all the scoop. And it was just really clear. that some of the people who had been our close friends were not going to be the people who would be our close friends going forward.

Not because they did anything like horrible. They either were overly gossipy and interested in what was happening or they just withdrew. We had kind of both of those scenarios. And so that was really tough. We were relatively new to our community. So we, we had just made these friends and were, it was, it was tough to, Like step away, but we found just a smaller group of people that we could really trust and people who would understand if we said today is not a good day for us.

We really wanted to be there, but we can't show up, but please invite us next time.

hmm.

Um, and those are the people that we're still friends with, you know, 15 years later, and they know everything about our kids and accept them for who they are and don't ever, my kids never feel, um, judged or, you know, uncomfortable around those families because they've been through, you know, they stuck with us through all of the tough times and didn't, didn't expect them to be different than who they were.

So,

That's great. That's great advice, actually. That's really good advice because it's hard to shed, shed sometimes, right?

Yeah, because you, it's like you're giving up friendships, it feels like, you know, you're like, oh, I don't want to do this and you miss out on some things. So you see those people on social media all getting together for a party and you're not there and, you know, so sometimes it's a little tricky, but in the long run, it just made everything better for us to, to narrow the field, I guess.

We're just very, we're choosy about who we are. We hang with

Yeah. I keep hearing over and over again, family first. That's what you did. You just prioritized family. I mean, that's what I hear over and over again with you. Anything else?

Um,

 I would say not to wait for the dust to settle, to live your life. Initially we had this feeling of like once we get him on the right medication, once his therapy starts to work once, you know, whatever, once we get to this milestone, then we can. go on that vacation, do whatever the thing was. And I think for a lot of families, mental health is, it's not like a one and done thing. It can be, there are some people that will have a period of depression and take a medication and see a therapist and they're okay the rest of their lives. But for most families we know, you know, it's, there's a genetic element, multiple family members are affected, And it kind of can come in and out.

So there will be periods when things are better and periods where things are worse, but it's not like it's ever over. It's not like they ever get to the finish line and they can just say, Oh, we're done. It's all solved. So, and then we had the wrinkle of, you know, our cancer treatments kind of woven in.

And so for us, we really got, um, to a point where we realized like, we're just going to go do this. Now we are going to take the trip. Now we are going to have the party. Now we are going to do whatever the thing is we want to do. Even though we may not all participate in the same way that we would like to have everyone participate, or even though it may exhaust us and we may need to sleep the whole next week because we're tired out, we're going to continue to, we're going to try to push to do the things that are important to us, um, instead of waiting.

And I think that, you know, that's, it's like the old carpe diem. It's not like it's original, but I think for us, it was. There felt, there felt to be times where we just couldn't do anything like we just like even somebody would say, Oh, you and you and your husband should go out for a night alone. And I would be like, well, who can I leave my kids with when they're so, you know, but you can find people who will take care of your, you know, emotionally messy children and you can find ways to get out.

Um. together as a couple or you can find vacations that are going to work for your kids, even if they're not super easy going and roll with it kind of kids. So we, um, really pushed to do those things even when it wasn't easy to do them.

That's great advice. And I know you said that it kind of sounds, but it, it is great advice because I think so often when we get into stressful situations, we withdraw, right? Like especially, and we just, and we, it's almost like we punish ourselves a little bit and don't realize that, you know what, a little bit of joy can take you a long way in, you know, being stronger for the next challenge that you've got coming up.

Yeah, it's true. And I think those big things are one way, like we, we had a party after, um, we had both gotten through cancer treatment and, um, We were not feeling great, either one of us. And we were kind of like, so we, we called it the, we kicked cancer's blood party and we invited everybody that had been helpful during our treatment to come over and just, it was very casual and it was a really, really fun party.

And my husband was exhausted by the end of it because he was still recovering. But we love, we love looking at those pictures. Like it was such a fun day for us. And it was kind of like we were spitting in the face of. The hard stuff. So there's those big moments and then there's little moments too. We have learned over the years that like little gentle nudges can really work.

So my kids might, if you said to my kids, you need to get some exercise today, they would be like,

Yeah. Yeah.

but if I say I'm taking the dog around the short block, does anyone want to go with me? Somebody might go with me. And so one of, I feel like one of my jobs as the somewhat emotionally healthier person in the household on a regular day is to just pull them along with me when I'm doing what I'm doing.

Like my, it's sometimes with little kids, it's modeling behavior with older kids. It might be just making a suggestion. Um, but I do it with my husband too. He knows this. Like, I'll just be like, Hey, why don't we. I'm going to do this. Do you want to come with me? Like I'm going to the grocery store. Why don't you ride along?

Like just trying to get them out into the world and doing things that make them feel better

Yeah.

they don't really want to, but that's something that as a parent, you actually have a lot of influence if you just kind of, that's not really being sneaky. It's just being creative, I think.

Creative. Exactly. That's what it is. It's totally being creative. Um, but also teaching them that when they go out into the world on their, that they're going to be sometimes responsible for telling themselves to do that, those hard things, you know? I mean, and the more that you can instill that thought pattern, the better off they are once.

They leave the nest and go, and go out on their own.

Yeah, we just had the conversation yesterday that, um, you, you're not going to ever feel like doing this. Like, you may not ever feel like, oh, I really want to go do this, but you have to, even if you don't feel like it, there's a huge benefit to pushing yourself to do at least a little something.

And there is, I mean there is even for the, the, the healthiest of, of us, right? They, you know, I mean I can tell you. I love to work out, but there's still some days I'm like, I don't want to work out, I just want to stay home, or I'm feeling bad or sad, and if I push myself to do it, how much better I feel, or if I make myself go to bed on time, how much better I feel, you know, it's a simple thing.

Sometimes tell us a little bit about your work with families for depression awareness. And what that organization is

So Families for Depression Awareness, or FFDA, is a family focused national nonprofit. They serve families living with depression and bipolar disorder, and they have a special focus on the family caregiver, so folks like your listeners who are helping someone else in their family who's dealing with a mood disorder.

They offer so many free programs, webinars, resources on their website, and Um, they also center on family stories. So there are lots of videos on their website and on YouTube of people telling their own lived experience and how they've benefited from, um, you know, treatments or how they've learned to communicate with each other.

You know, different things. There's a lot of great content on the website, tips and tools that folks can use. And the idea is really that the, the caregiver in the family is really like the first line of defense. They're often the people who spot a problem first before the person themselves realizes it. And they're also also really instrumental in getting help because as you know, if you're depressed and you're feeling depleted. it's really hard to go through the process of trying to find a therapist or going to see a psychiatrist, especially when it's so hard to find providers now that are taking patients.

So, um, there's a lot of great support through the, their programming to help with that. So, I

Is it

check them out.

is it only online or do they have groups like live groups across the country as well? Yeah.

So they don't have groups across the country at this point, but they do have several times when they run any live events or webinars, they'll do a kind of breakout portion after that to connect people online. They're also offering a new service, which is really great, which is to help, um, when someone's coming home from an inpatient treatment.

to help, you know, match of a caregiver with an advisor that can help prepare them for how they can best manage that transition home.

Oh, that's amazing.

that I think a lot of families will benefit from. And you can find them at familyaware. org, but they're also on social media. So they're on YouTube, Facebook, and Instagram.

Okay.

so people can follow them and, and it's great. There's a mix of really practical tips and how to's and data driven, uh, evidence based. learning, and there's also just encouragement and stories and help from other folks who are living with similar experiences to the caregivers.

Well, it sounds like an amazing resource that I could have probably used about 10 years ago, right? I will have,

helpful.

I bet I will have all of that information in the show notes so that people can access them on social media or on the website.

That's wonderful. Thank you.

Gwen, thank you so much for sharing your story and your insight. I think the more that we can share with everybody, the better off we're all going to be as we tackle this thing with mental health.

Great. Thank you, Andrea.