Alcoholism, Motherhood & Sobriety: Breaking Generational Cycles

Being a parent doesn’t stop addiction—but it can be a reason to fight for recovery.

In this raw and  powerful episode, Emily Redondo, author of Wife Mother Drunk, shares her journey with alcoholism, recovery, and breaking cycles of generational trauma. Having been in rehab and psychiatric institutions over 20 times, Emily opens up about what it’s like to navigate life as a parent while struggling with alcohol, and how addiction isn’t about being a “good” or “bad” person—it’s about what’s happening in the brain.

Emily also discusses the impact of past generations of alcoholism, how it shaped her life, and the courageous steps she took to reclaim herself for her family and future. She candidly describes facing the shadows of her past, choosing life over self-destruction, and confronting trauma head-on.

This episode is for anyone grappling with alcohol, generational trauma, or the challenges of midlife reinvention. Emily’s story is raw, real, and a reminder that healing is possible, even after decades of struggle.

A conversation about survival, self-trust, and the courage to choose life.

BIO: 

EMILY REDONDO is a writer, bookworm, and proud mother of four whose articles on recovery and motherhood have been featured in Love What Matters, Genius Recovery, and Legacy Launchpad. Her interests include gardening, camping, collecting antique curiosities, and tinkering with her latest diy project in her workshop. She lives with her husband, Pete, and their lively household in McKinney, Texas.

RESOURCES/ REFERENCES:

https://a.co/d/anhTJJm

Transcript

Emily Redondo

[00:00:00] I think that, um, you know, this idea of like managing on the outside, ha you know, I had very active children and I kinda looked pretty like a normal, you know, mom out there, give or take of course. Um, and I think that sometimes that gives us the impression that we're fine, we're okay.

. 

Welcome to this Way Up, the podcast dedicated to supporting parents and caregivers navigating the complex world of mental health. I'm Andrea, and each episode we dive deep into the conversations that matter, exploring the challenges triumphs and transformative journeys of those facing mental health struggles within their families.

Whether you're here for expert advice, inspiring stories, or just a little boost to get you through the day, we've got you covered. So grab a cup of coffee, kick back and join us as we find the bright spots in the mental health journey because we're all climbing our way up [00:01:00] together. 

Welcome back to this way up. We are going to switch it up just a little bit today. Typically we are talking about what it's like to be a caregiver, uh, to somebody who is struggling with their mental health. Today our guest, Emily Redondo, is going to share what it's like to be a caregiver who struggled with sobriety and alcoholism.

She is the author of wife, mother drunk. She is the mother of four children and she is a recovering alcoholic. She is brutally honest. In today's conversation. She talks about what it was like to be a mother while struggling with alcoholism and why actually, and, and how and how. Recovery is really hard. We talk about what it's like to be a mother while struggling with alcoholism.

I already talked about that.

Emily shares her struggles that she, Emily shares what it was like to be a mother while she was trying to get sober, and why recovery was so dang hard. She shares how generational alcoholism and trauma played a role in her story and what it took to. To actually break that cycle, and at the end of the conversation she says something that really, really stuck with me, that she wants her kids to grow up to be able to talk about things.

Towards the end of the episode, she shared something that really, really stuck with me, that her goal was to raise kids who could talk about addiction, trauma, and mental health without shame or silence, you know? This is a real conversation about responsibility, truth, and doing things differently. And Emily bravely and candidly shares her story.

It's a very personal story today, and I hope that you can glean a little bit of today's conversation. You know, Emily's, Emily's very brave and candid. Uh. Story Emily bravely opens up and, and just shares

today's conversation is.

Emily is brutally honest and open with [00:02:00] the ups and downs of her life and shares her very, very personal story with many in hopes of trying to help someone else. I really hope that you enjoy this conversation, and if you do, please press like share with anybody. Wait. I really hope that you enjoy today's episode, and if you do, please subscribe and share with your friends.

Thank you.

Andrea: Emily, after reading your book, I have been so excited to have you on your book. Uh, is I, it pulled at every heart string I have as a person, as a mother, as a daughter, as just the whole thing.

It, it, it's incredible. And I'm not exactly sure where we're gonna end up on this interview because there's so many things that you can talk about in so many good pieces and nuggets, but we're gonna start with, you once described yourself as a mom who had it all together

Emily: [00:03:00] mm-hmm.

Andrea: except you were drunk all day.

Emily: Right, right.

Andrea: And I think that just, that really spoke to me in the sense that we all tend to hide things

Emily: Yes.

Andrea: it is something that you're looking to not do any longer and to give to other people the ability to not have to hide. But I wanna know what was, what was it like living kinda that double life?

Emily: Um, you know, it, it really didn't feel so much like a double life necessarily at the time. You know, it's one of those things that once you step back from it. Then, I mean, then you see the insanity if, if I may. But you know, when you're in that mental state, you don't really, I mean, you're not thinking like that because you are insane, you know, you are experiencing it.

And, um, [00:04:00] you know what, towards the end, the last few years of my addiction to alcohol, uh, which by the way, you know, I'm, i a, it was all wine, but I drank wine like a drug addict basically is kind of how I describe it. There was no, nothing, um, social or, um, acceptable in the way that I was drinking. It was super closet drinking.

I mean, forget it, I don't even know if we ever owned a wine glass. Um,

Andrea: Hmm.

Emily: but. I think that, um, you know, this idea of like managing on the outside, ha you know, I had very active children and I kinda looked pretty like a normal, you know, mom out there, give or take of course. Um, and I think that sometimes that gives us the impression that we're [00:05:00] fine, we're okay.

I mean, look, look at all the stuff I'm able, you know, the other thing is, is like the more I got into my drinking, the, I mean my tolerance was off the chart, so I wasn't really what, you know, being drunk all day for me was, um, not the stereotypical picture of drunk. Um,

Andrea: Was it like what they would call a functioning alcoholic?

Emily: No, I, well, I mean maybe, maybe at face value, but really what it was, is that my, my body, uh, you know, had completely readjusted, turned everything upside down. And instead of it being, you know, my body responding like, okay, this is inebriation and this is, you know, this is something, you know, poisonous that I'm putting in my body and enjoying the effect of it.

It was, um, I had to have [00:06:00] alcohol. My body had completely adapted to having alcohol in its system. And that's the, uh, the medical aspect of it. So if I didn't have alcohol in my body, um, I, I couldn't function so.

Andrea: Wow. That became your new normal, was just existing off of alcohol.

Emily: Mm. Yeah. And, you know, people, people die over that. It's, it's a very serious, um, situation where, you know, you wake up every day not wanting to drink and doing everything to try to, you know, continue to, you know, push forward. Like, I can't do this. I don't wanna do this. But then you, I mean, you do it.

Andrea: Yeah. That's so hard. I think you wrote somewhere in, in your book too, that you, you tried to get sober and you, I don't remember the exact quote, [00:07:00] you loved your kids so much, but even though you loved them so much that you really didn't like yourself and that could, and until you could like yourself, you couldn't get sober.

Emily: Yeah.

Andrea: I Go ahead.

Emily: I, well, I mean, love doesn't get you sober. You know, your love, how much you're loved by others, how much you love, you know, someone else, whether it's your kids or not. Um, that's not enough. It's, it's not a matter of, um, you know, changing my mind and, oh, you know what, look what I'm doing. I'm just gonna make a choice and stop.

I mean, it's, it's, addiction is really confusing and hard to explain, even for someone like me. And, you know, if, if love could keep us and get us sober, then we would all do it. We'd be there. Um, [00:08:00] and you know, my situation that I've, I've said multiple times is I got sober dozens of times. I knew how to do it.

I, you know, um, I grew up around a 12 step program of AA and I mean, that was like a way of life. Uh, and so it wasn't about how do I, how do I do this? What am I supposed to do to get sober? I knew that it, I couldn't stay sober because I was tortured by the reality of my actions and things that, you know, that happened and who I was.

And, you know, it was, it was hell. I mean, I wanted to die in sobriety, believe it or not. It was just like, maybe not die, but sort of, you know, I always prayed for a do over, like, oh my God, want a do over. I just wanna start all [00:09:00] over, or I want. Nobody to know me, like erase me from everybody's memory

Andrea: Oh, that's so heartbreaking.

Emily: it is an, you know, when I talk about it, I've had such a, um, oh my gosh, like brutal work in, you know, this type of stuff that I think when I'm talking about it, I'm thinking about the Emily that was then, you know, in that moment feeling those feelings and I'm kind of honoring her

Andrea: Hmm,

Emily: and exactly where she was.

And you know, I talk about it and I picture myself back then, and I mean, it breaks my heart too, you know, so I need to, I need to make sure that people remember her too.

Andrea: Yeah. Yep. That she needed some extra help. Then how did you take me back from when you were younger? You speak [00:10:00] about, um, generational trauma. You speak about, um, alcoholism through the, through the generations. You've also had some eating disorders. Take me back, um, about how you kind of got to where you're at or where you were at, where you finally were back to the breaking point.

Emily: Uh,

Andrea: I know

Emily: which breaking which breaking point,

Andrea: the, okay, let me say, let me

Emily: you know? Yeah. Yeah.

Andrea: Let's not say the breaking point. Let's say the healing point. Let's say where you got to the point where you were with your son and you finally said, now, now is the time

Emily: Mm-hmm.

Andrea: I need. I need to fix Emily and fix all of these years and generations of trauma so that moving forward I can give my family the Emily that they need and hopefully the future that they need as well.

Emily: Um, you know, I'm sure. That, I'm trying to figure out how to say this. I apologize. Okay. So, um, [00:11:00] I, I have always been aware that I shouldn't be alive. I've had many, um, moments in life, but I, I should have died, but I didn't. Um, and towards the end of my drinking, um, I knew it was, it was coming. I knew death was coming and it was there.

It was like a presence around me. And, um, I don't know if those kind of experiences, I mean, they, they just change. They changed me completely and feeling like, um, like I understand. Uh, to a, to a pretty big level, like what is actually, what's gonna happen and what was, I knew, I knew that either I was gonna die or someone else was gonna die because of me, or, you know, what was my life gonna look like?

And at that point I had been to so many rehabs, so many, uh, psychiatric and, you know, everyone, all they did was like, they [00:12:00] just wanted to fix me. People around me just like, we gotta fix her. We gotta fix her. And, you know, I had to get to this point where I have, I'm gonna do things I've never done before because everything I've done before didn't work for me.

And part of it was needed to stop running from my own history, you know, my own past and. It's like, there's these things that live in us, you know, it's like, oh my god. You know, somebody walks into the room or brings up a topic and your gut sinks and you're like, I'm not, I can't deal with this. I, I can't deal with this person or this sibling, or this, you know, this event that happened that was so horrible.

And I just, I can't even look at it. I will later. I will la you know, someday, but not right now. And I had gotten to the point where I'd done that too many times and I just had to do it. I had to go in there and light the whole thing up, you know, [00:13:00] until there weren't any shadows. And I knew all of it until, um, it didn't scare me.

I didn't have to run from it. Um. You know, those, those kind of things. And I don't think I really knew at the time what I was doing. It's, it wasn't, you know, the healing process is so, you know, so different for everybody. It's not linear and it's, it's really kind of something that you can look back on and say, oh yeah, that WI really healed from that, but can I tell somebody else to do it?

I mean, absolutely not because we're all so different. And at the time I just, I had to figure it out, whatever it was, because I had this feeling that if I didn't, I was gonna die

Andrea: Yeah,

Emily: and I wasn't ready to die.

Andrea: so your will to live was stronger than your need to continue down [00:14:00] the path that you were at.

Emily: And it, it wasn't just like for me, like, oh, that's scary. I don't wanna die. 'cause that sounds terrifying. It was looking at what that impact would be on other people's lives and parts other people's lives that I'm not going to like be around for. And like, you know, that was just like, excuse my language, but I was like, fuck that.

I'm, I'm not into that. Like, no, I can't, I, I'm not doing that. So.

Andrea: know what's interesting? Um, mothers, maybe it was beforehand too, but I think once I turned to be a mom, I started to be much more cognizant of how my actions and behaviors affected other people. And it became very, very important to me. And this is kind of embarrassing, but I'm gonna say it anyways.

I've been driving before and just totally [00:15:00] broke down in tears,

Emily: Mm.

Andrea: realizing. That I am going to be giving my children some of the worst pain that they've ever experienced whenever I do die. I mean, and I, I know I won't be doing it on purpose or anything like that, but it's such a horrible feeling thinking that that's gonna happen.

And then in your case, then adding on that, you could be, the reason that that happens has gotta be awful and

Emily: Well, I, you know, it's interesting because I know people, um, whether they were the mother who passed away, or the child whose mother passed away, um, or parent because of their disease of al, you know, or whatever you wanna call it. I don't know what's trending right now. 'cause I'm off, I'm offline a hundred percent and I know that some, I mean, I'm an alcoholic.

I just say it straight up, like, I know that's [00:16:00] the proper term, but this is one right here. Um, and, you know, it's, it's like I feel this kind of compassion for both ends because I am, you know, a child who had two alcoholic parents, but then I am also the alcoholic parent of four kids. Um, and I'll tell you what.

Some of the, you know, those mothers that I know, they never got the chance. I feel sad for that, that they didn't get the chance to, um, give their kids the other side of them out of addiction, that they didn't make it out. Um, and, you know, it's, it's a tragedy. It really is. And so, you know, I'm really fortunate.

One of the things I'm happiest about is all these, um, you know, they don't replace what I did with my children. Um, and I understand [00:17:00] that very well, but I get to like, add on good stuff, um, into their life and also, you know, do the really hard work so that these things that we accidentally inherit. Um, they're called out and they stop and you know it's gonna make them better parents.

Andrea: well, you're very, very brave and clearly you love your children very much to be able to do that, I think that. No parent is perfect,

Emily: No,

Andrea: but a good parent works on their weaknesses and shows their children how to grow out of them. And you're doing that. You're absolutely doing that. Do you feel because you have generations of alcoholism in your family that um, you were set up for it no matter [00:18:00] what, like it was just going to happen?

Um mm-hmm.

Emily: um. That's such a good question. I mean, I think that, you know, people who have a history of alcoholism or any addiction in their family, you know, has that little trigger button, you know, and whether they click it or not, I, I have no idea. Um, I think one of the things that is a component of the idea of like inherited, um, alcohol addiction has to do with what's going on around it as well.

So both my parents were alcoholics and they drank very differently. My dad was your stereotypical raging. Um, you know, like he, he was unpredictable, I'll say that. And so my mom was the alcoholic. That was the [00:19:00] number, you know, like she numb. We're gonna, uh, box this all up in a little, you know, she had the green jug of wine back in the day, you know, and growing up like that, I had no, I, that was normal.

I had no idea that anything was wrong, other than, gosh, my parents are acting. We, my mom's acting weird. What is, what's, what is she doing? What's, what's so funny? Or, you know, whatever it was. Um, but also, you know, we didn't talk about anything in that house. We didn't talk about any feelings. We weren't allowed to have any feelings.

Um, you don't get mad. You don't cry. You don't, uh, you don't bring up something that's bothering you, or if you get your feelings hurt, nobody wants to know, you know, you just. You just get through it 'cause we no, you don't wanna upset the alcoholic kind of. I mean, but I think that, uh, that's part of the thing that until if I [00:20:00] hadn't come to a point where I'm looking back and being like, oh, okay.

Uh, 'cause this whole book came about is like my own investigation sort of, of like, how in the world did I end up here? I mean, I had, you know, the fairytale dream of like, I wanna be a mommy and I wanna do blah, blah, blah. And I mean, I mean, I'm like people's worst case scenario in the category of mother and, you know, so as I'm looking back, there's, there's an alcohol in my history, but there's also these things that nobody knew how to deal with.

Or it was a cultural time where people dealt with it differently than they do now. And my lineage is, you know, one of the famous things that got somebody's attention [00:21:00] when I first started writing this was, um, when I said, well, you know, I come from pioneers and sort of like, wow, what? Um, but, you know, Oregon Trail material that settled into, you know, this, um, a farmstead, you know, form of living and it's isolating.

It's out there on Nebraska plains and, you know, wherever. And these men, all the men in my family went to war. They were all in from civil war, uh, I mean, probably for their back, but I couldn't get, I, you know.

Andrea: Right.

Emily: Um, but ev all of 'em, and a very, you know, my grandfather was frontline combat in World War ii, and I mean, I can't even imagine, you know, he was like, what he saw and what he experienced.

He wa and both of my grandparents grandfathers were World War ii, um, you know, in five, whatever they call it, soldiers, sorry. And they both were POWs. One grandpa was a POW in Germany and the other one was a POW in Japan. And so they come back [00:22:00] and, you know, they called it shell shock, sort of, but nobody knew what was going on or how to deal with it.

And, um, you know, the places were like, I had. Journals and diaries and family histories was more on my mother's side. And you know, my grandpa was at the tavern every night of the year, except for, except for two nights. And that's when it was closed and one was Christmas and one was on tax day it was closed.

I know.

Andrea: realize they closed on tax day, but, okay.

Emily: Yeah, I know. Well it was a very small town, but you know, other men would just disappear for a few days. Go on Benders and you know,

Andrea: You know, it's interesting you're talking about that because I don't think I've ever

Emily: oh, happy Veterans Day, by the way.

Andrea: Oh yeah. Happy Veterans You too. Um, I don't think I've ever put together the fact though that, you know, we always talk about the soldiers that went away and what they went through, but. How about the people that love them when they came home?

I mean, your grandmother, your mother, your great-grandmother, all [00:23:00] of those women had to navigate life around someone who has some sort of issues. Right. And how did they do that? It couldn't have been easy on them.

Emily: Well, there's that aspect of it, but then there's also the aspect of all the men are gone, you know, uh, when these small family communities, I mean, you know, both of my great-grandmothers had a lot of kids. I'll just say that, you know, farms like you're, you're breeding full time here. But they had four sons.

They each had four sons, and out of four, three were drafted. So one got to stay home and help with the farm, and the other three were out there. Like, what does that [00:24:00] do? You know, not only is it this aspect of complete anxiety and fear within the, the woman, but also, um, you're still a mom and now you're, you're full-time.

Um, you've got all the work and and you're by yourself. So, um, there's things like that where kids are watching and we're learning sort of like either how to deal or how not to deal, whether it's right or wrong. It's, it's what we see and what we know. Um, and then my, um, my grandfather died the same week that his dad died.

And when, um, my grandfather passed away, it was from complications of, um, being a POW. My grandma had seven kids and was pregnant with her eighth. And you know, my mom remembers going to the funeral. And then it was like, that's it. Nobody talked about any of it. You don't, you don't have grief support groups.

You don't even, my mom never saw [00:25:00] her mom cry. And then years later, my mom had a sister that drowned and everyone was wrecked by it and no one said a word about it. The funeral took place and then it was like, we can't, we can't talk about it. We don't talk about uncomfortable things.

Andrea: So this brings me to, you've done a lot of exploration and healing on yourself. I don't know if your mother is still alive,

Emily: is, my dad does My mother is, yes.

Andrea: Have you ever talked to her about any of this and how did that go?

Emily: well, um, I'll tell you what, it was really good practice of having uncomfortable conversations, which, you know, we talk about that in my house with the kids. You know, I've got two teenagers who are still at home and the other two are, um, independent adults. But, you know, it's kind of like, it's hard.

It's hard. I mean, we're so prickly and, you know, it's like, oh gosh, we, we are gonna sit and get through it. But, um, you know, my mom is in a different space. She got, you know, she got sober int in, I'm sorry, 1990 and I was still a teenager. Um, and I think that, you know, it gets to a point where even, even then, um.

If I brought up my mom's sister's name is Lynette. If I, if I said Lynette [00:26:00] in any aspect of anything, my mom was on the verge of a sob, and this is like 30 plus years later. She like, it's so in her body and couldn't even talk about it. And it's gotten easier because I, you know, I wanted to have a conversation about it, but I also talked to my mom about what it was like when I was a kid and what she was like as a mother.

And, um, I know my mom was gonna listen to this podcast, so, you know, but she, she knows, she knows me well enough, but I think it's, you know, she, she acknowledges and knows, you know what, yeah, you, um, your needs weren't met. and it's, neglect is a really hard word, but my mom was primarily focused, um, on the, the verbal and emotional and all this abuse, um, uh, from my father.

And like, I'm, we don't wanna upset him. I mean, the dinner table explosions, like, you know, everybody's looking at each other like, don't mess this up, you know? And it doesn't matter, you know, if he wants, it's gonna happen. Um, but she was scared too. And so it's, I'm at a place where it's like, I understand.

'cause she wants me to [00:27:00] understand her point, and I do, I understand. Now I can look at it and be like, I mean, gosh, you know, this was a woman who was afraid and she didn't know what to do.

Andrea: Right,

Emily: then I have to also acknowledge like, but that was me. Like, you know. Nobody protected me or my brother, or, you know, there wasn't, there wasn't any defending or, you know, taking, taking care of on that aspect.

And then, you know, I am, I'm at a place and may, you know, maybe this is just because of all the shit I've been through and, you know, therapy is always like, when you're in, in an institution, whatever it is, it's like a punch because you don't have, you know, the therapist doesn't have a lot of time and they, like, I get crushed.

I mean, it's like, so I do have this level of like, um, that's kind of like in me now and I do not have a problem saying that I was not a good mother for, for a while. On many occasions I was not. I wasn't anything that my kids deserved without any explanation to them or anybody else. Um, because, you know, then I just say, you know, but I [00:28:00] am now, it doesn't, I I totally own and acknowledge what I've done.

I mean, I've, I am my children's trauma and I think that that is very difficult for, um, some people to, to do, to, be, to be. It's not that I'm okay with it, but I'm like the ugly kind of acceptance. Like I accept it and now I

Andrea: But don't you think that buying by accepting that and taking responsibility, that um, you are being empathetic to your children's needs as they are today because they've got pain from when they were younger

Emily: percent. A thousand percent. Um,

Andrea: go back and relive those years. But taking responsibility is still [00:29:00] a very loving thing to do if you are really, if, if you're truly taking that responsibility and making changes.

Emily: yeah. Um, you know, I'm not the, uh, superpower sober mom at all. Um, it's not about me. It's, it's about, um,

it's, it's so much about. The fact that, you know, we're all recovering. It's not just me. Everyone in this house was recovering and I wanted them to do it. You know, you can't make anybody do it. But, um, I wanted them to get into therapy and get super angry about everything. I put them through, like, do it be mad.

It's a, like, I'm not defensive about it. Um, I, I have my, you know, my pinhole view of what was going on, but it's not the same as theirs. And I want them to get in there and get, you know, get mad and say it and get it out, because otherwise. You're just, you know, you're [00:30:00] just holding onto a bomb that's gonna go off at, you know, sooner or later, however that is, whatever it's gonna look like, so,

Andrea: you feel like the alcoholism created barriers to your relationships with your kids?

Emily: oh

Andrea: you,

Emily: of course, of course.

Andrea: were they afraid of you at that time, or do you think they knew what was going on, or was it until you started to peel back the onion and heal yourself? That they started to realize.

Emily: Oh, I love that question because, um, you know, on, on one aspect, help me remember to come back to both sides of that as far as like, were they afraid of me because I, I do wanna say they did know what was going on. We, you know, my husband is in recovery as well, and, um. He got clean and sober in 2003. Um, and he, you know, both [00:31:00] him and my mom just, they've never relapsed.

So it was like, they, they, they quit and stayed quit. Right. Um, that was not as, nowhere near my story, but from the very beginning, even when I was a single mom at, you know, however old before my drinking had like, really hit the, uh, hit the fast track. I, I told my daughter that she was allergic to alcohol. I said, yeah, you're allergic to it.

And you know, of course I also told her that, you know, we're never gonna own a bar we're you can't have Barbies, you know, stuff like that. was like mixed in, you know, it was like, okay, I am gonna mold this little sucker. Right.

Andrea: my daughter didn't have Barbies

Emily: Yeah. That's like, that's like the naivete of first time parenting where you oh yeah, we're gonna get it.

All right, perfect. Um, but, you know, we did that with every kid that my, you know, my husband and I have been married almost 21 years, and like, that's the same thing that we did with the other kids, and it's age appropriate. And then it kept, you know, we got more into it, but talking about recovery, sobriety, addiction, like this was, there was no shame.

They, it was just us and,

Andrea: your kids were, when you went into a treatment facility or something, they, they were fully aware of what was happening to mom and what she was doing.

Emily: Yep. Yeah, there, it wasn't, it wasn't mommy camp for a month, you know, it was in fact, uh, you know, there's this beautiful thing when they're younger before, you know, peer influence and you know, now we have so much over information online and oh gosh, all this other stuff. But, um, they would tell, you know, they told, like, I never knew it was gonna come outta their mouth because we intentionally, like, we didn't make it a [00:32:00] shameful thing.

And at my book launch, I actually got to talk to this Stella's, who's 17 now, her kindergarten teacher was there and when. Stella, it was the summer after she had kindergarten. We were walking through the neighborhood and ran into her teacher, Mrs. Si, and was, she was asking about our summer. And you know, Stella's just prancing around, you know, and this thing.

And she says, well, yeah, we didn't go on vacation. My mom had to go to a hospital because she drank too much, you know, and like just ticking it off. And I'm like, I look at the teacher like, oh yeah, that's,

Andrea: true.

Emily: and Ms. Sis handled it so brilliantly, like you just never know what's gonna cross someone's face.

Let's give a message to a child. But she was like, well that's terrific. What a good thing [00:33:00] to do. You know, just kind of went on that way. But as they got older and, you know, my drinking got worse. And, um, I. I kind of pulled a, like, I, I would think, gosh, the less I am around then the less this is gonna impact them.

You know, it's very isolating. So it's not as much of the, um, you know, the affectionate like tender loving kind of thing, because now is they're, when they're older, I'm like, oh my God, what if they smell alcohol on me? You know, even though it's like seeping outta my pores. Right. But, um, and as far as the question about were they afraid of me?

I, I'm gonna guess yes. I'm gonna guess that when I was drinking, because, um, it wasn't pretty. I mean, if it's not pretty out, you know, you can see a woman who's had too much to drink out in public. I mean, [00:34:00] that doesn't look great. More or less. You know, it's probably worse in the house. And I don't have, I mean, because of, um, I've able been able to have these kind of conversations about like what was going on, um, in those kind of moments with my mother, with my husband, and I just don't, I'm not really sure that my kids are at a point where they can have that kind of conversation with me.

Andrea: Sure.

Emily: Um, and I'm, I'm here for it, you know, I'm okay if they, if they do, like, I would be okay with that. Um, you know, whatever their feelings or experiences or thoughts were at the time. Um, my, my kids are right now in a place where, you know, they love me so much and they're so proud of me and.

I don't know. I think that they would see something like that, I'm guessing, of course. But I think that they would see something like sitting down and, you know, telling me those things as a form of hurting me. Even though it's, it is part of the healing process. I just feel like they wouldn't wanna do that to me and they can, you know, if they can do it like in therapy or, you know, to party or something, but, um, I [00:35:00] don't

Andrea: But I get that. So, you know, I mean, first of all, nobody, everybody should go to therapy because no matter how ideal your upbringing is, it's not ideal. Right. No matter what happens. And I remember, um, I was working through some stuff and the therapist said to me, well, just talk to your mom about that. And I said, I don't think I need to. And my husband was, happened to be there too. And he's like, I don't, I I don't think she needs to. Oh, no, no, no. I came home and I was like, yeah, they're really wanting me to talk to her about this. I'm like, but I don't think so. I said, she's, she's owned up to her. Part of what went on. I don't wanna hurt her.

I love her for who she is today. I love her for who she was a long time ago. And, um, I, I don't need to inflict that pain because it doesn't, it's not gonna serve that purpose, um, for either one of us. Do you fear that your children [00:36:00] could, um, ha have a problem with alcohol? Are you always kind of on edge watching them and, and such?

Are you able to be comfortable sitting back knowing that your journey has, is teaching them what they need to know about the disease?

Emily: Oh gosh. Um, no, I'm not worried about it, uh, because, um, that would put in some kind of element where I think I can change it or I think I can, um, get in there and fix, you know, you know, line everything up so that they don't go through any pain or suffering in life, especially in the category of addiction. Right. Um, that's. That's been played out in my world, you know, it's like, gosh, I, I, you know, I want, I wish I could.

Um, I don't know, maybe I don't, but I understand the want to, you know, have your kid make decisions that, uh, you agree with and that fit your kind of thing. Uh, I think both of my drinking age or ish older two children, I don't think they would lie about it because we, we do have like our individual, like very honest conversations and I wouldn't judge.

But as far as, definitely my oldest daughter has, has never had a drop to drink. She's never tasted alcohol and my 20-year-old hasn't either. So, um. But I don't take any credit. Like that's, I don't get credit for that, you know? That's just the way it is.  And I think we all have, we all are scared of our kids' future because we love them and we don't want them to, to go through pain, you know?

I mean, pain of a breakup even, know, it's like, it's so [00:37:00] hard. But me wanting, you know, like in the, in terms of like heartache, you know, a broken heart.

Andrea: Yeah.

Emily: It's, it's really, it's, I was at a point, this is kind of tricky to say, but sometimes we have to let them figure it out. And I'm less of a parent as my kids get into their teens because I want them to learn how to think and, and deal and all that kind of stuff.

It's also sometimes we see other people's pain and really what we're like backing off of or trying to fix is we want to fix our feelings and what's going on inside of us and not them. So like, if I can't handle, you know, mothering my kid through a really hard time because they're not doing it my way, um, that's really messed up.

That's, you know, they're, they're, they, they're doing it their way. It's shouldn't be my way. They're a different person. And so it, you know, it's kind of all this stuff that it takes work, you know, it's like I gotta be, um, I gotta be paying attention to what's in front of me and. Maybe that's why, like, I don't, I have no social media.

I have some social media, but I don't scroll. I only get on to do my obligations. And um, you know, I don't watch tv. I watch sports, you know, NFL on Sunday, but that's it. So yeah.

Andrea: Do, do you consider, and I'm not saying from a, um, professional standpoint or, or anything like

Emily: Good, because 

Andrea: consider, neither am I, do you consider alcoholism a form of a, um, mental disorder? Or do you think it's comorbid, meaning it exists in alignment with something? What's your feelings on all of that?

Emily: Um,

I think that addiction. Whatever it is, um, whatever your addiction is, and if it is with alcohol, I think, um, I think it's in your brain and it has nothing to do with whether you're a good person, a bad person, um, a morally, uh, you know, upstanding citizen. Whether or not you have integrity, it doesn't care.

It's your brain. [00:38:00] And

at some point, you know,

that's all it is. Because you can't, you can't control it. You can't fix it. Um, I think sometimes, you know, it's like, well, just don't drink, just don't pick up. A drink is so over simplistic. It's, its insulting.

Andrea: Mm-hmm.

Emily: Um, there's so much, you know, there, there is a lot of mental health aspects. I think there's also a lot of like, developmental aspects in terms of like, I didn't know how to do life.

Andrea: Right.

Emily: I had the completely wrong picture. And not only did I have the wrong picture because of what mothers tend to present inside the home as far as like, uh. You know, God, my mom, she said, I say this on every podcast, so I guess I should say it on this one too. She vacuumed every [00:39:00] single day.

Andrea: God loved that woman. She needed a Roomba.

Emily: She, she ironed all of my father's work shirts, like, boom, boom. I mean, she was like this domestic queen who was also smart and pretty. And then like, I think, oh, well, I'm gonna be like that too. And I crashed and burned. I mean, I didn't even like understand that dishes have to be done every day. Like, it's just like so weird.

The stuff that like never sunk in as far as like how to do anything independent. And

Andrea: Well, it was done for you.

Emily: even if it, yeah, and even if it wasn't done for me, it was sort of like. In my head, I thought, oh, well I'll do it. You know, I'm sure I'll grow, mature into that. Right? I mean, my room was an absolute fire hazard when I was growing up, but I still thought to myself, Hey, guess what?

You know, when I live on my own, I'm gonna be clean and I'm gonna know how to organize. And you know, I mean, I'm still a s slob actually. I mean, But I forgot where I was going with that. I'm so sorry. You asked me a really good question and

Andrea: I was asking you if I, if you thought that alcoholism was, um, a mental disorder, um, or if they were too aligned. But I think your, um, your analysis of that is so [00:40:00] spot on. Not from a professional standpoint, from a, um, from a, a, a survivor standpoint. I remember when my, um, daughter was, she had severe anxiety and um, she was taking some medication which did not go over well for her. And she was doing some really, um, unpredictable behaviors. And, um, my son was questioning, why aren't you, why aren't you doing anything about this? Or, you know, why are, why isn't she getting disciplined for it, basically? And I said, how can I discipline somebody for something that they don't have control over?

And I truly felt that way, that I couldn't discipline her. She had, she still had to face the consequences of her actions. And, um, but yet when there is a chemical imbalance going on in your brain, I truly believe that things [00:41:00] that the typical person can control or do, you cannot during that period of time.

Emily: Yeah. I mean, and I do think, you know, that when it comes to, to mental aspects of things, you know, whether it's a chemical imbalance or you know, something else like that, you know, that's, um, that's real. and I think that maybe that shouldn't be applied to something, because when I say I think addiction is, you know, it's the brain I'm talking about The physical act, like the, like more of a, like the physical components of this, of this brain. I have. Um, and I mean, I'm glad to tell you like mental, when it comes to mental health, I swear in over like the course of 30 years, there's not much, I haven't had, there's not many. I mean, when I see a new psychiatrist and they're like, what medications have you have been on?

I said, let's make this quick and I'll tell you what I have never taken. 'cause you know, the list is long and it, there's just so many, um, so many ways to kind of get off the important topics. And in my life, whether it's, you know, the current terminology, whether it's, uh, where does it come from? Um, is [00:42:00] it, you know, is it moral or you know, this or that, you know, it's like, it doesn't, that doesn't matter.

Like that's a, a useless conversation when we're still living, uh, in and around the, the statistics of the problem. Like, let's, let's just quit dancing. This is how I feel, of course, but like, getting into a conversation with somebody at my house about like, I don't know, is marijuana a drug or a plant? You know, it's like these kind of things.

I'm like, I mean, that's a, that's a fun and less direct conversation to have about what's really the issue in my opinion, you know? Um.

Andrea: The issue is, is that. There, there is, there is a reaction or a, a problem that needs to be addressed.

Emily: Right.

Andrea: And it doesn't matter whether it, you, you say it's blue or, and I say it's black, or you say it's black and I say it's blue, it doesn't matter. There's still an issue and it needs to be addressed. I do think, I, I like how you say the terminology because over the past few years as I've been doing this, um, podcast, there have been several episodes where terminology [00:43:00] has, has come up.

And while I, I do appreciate people's, um, sensitivities to that. I also think that sometimes we just need to say, Hey, this is what it is, you know? And in this case, alcoholism is alcoholism and there are consequences that go with that. And there's responsibilities that need to be taken. And it's hard. And we can still all say.

We've got empathy for those who are going through it. We are in understanding it from the general public is more important than what we call it,

Emily: Yeah. And you know, this is really, I think it's, it's also very individualized. I mean, I understand some people, some people don't even like, you know, whatever the, the stigma is attached to words when it comes to, you know, drugs and alcohol or mental health issues. Um, my stance is always that those words like alcoholism and alcoholic, it doesn't, they're not going away.

I mean, they're, they're still here and not everybody feels the same way about them. And I think that that's okay if, um, I, I really understand. Okay. This whole, like, alcohol use, hang on, what is it? Alcohol use disorder completely. You know, it's not enough to describe me. It's almost too sterile for the experience.

But then again, you know, that's not the same for everybody because everybody doesn't have my story. That's like, so, um, like one thing after another. I mean, it's like, it doesn't even seem like it's real. It's so wild. That's not

Andrea: was the book the catalyst for your healing or w did you start to heal and then decided to write the book?

Emily: so. By heal do you mean sobriety?

Andrea: Sobriety? There we go with words, right? Yeah. So

Emily: Well, healing, you know, it's, I'm just trying to like pick out like what the healing, 'cause

Andrea: I guess [00:44:00] coming to terms with your history, taking ownership of where you're at and then go getting, um, sober, I think that that to me is a process of, of healing, um, and acceptance of who you are. And then. Paving a path of who you want to be moving forward. I guess that's how I think of it.

Emily: Yeah. That's really, um, that's very thought provoking. I don't think that anything can be thoroughly accomplished or healed without sobriety or, um. Help with mental illness, whatever it is,

Andrea: Mm-hmm.

Emily: until those issues are addressed first. Um, and com and like you're in a comfortable space. And I, I think that that's, I places where I, I failed in the past is kind of trying to maintain early sobriety [00:45:00] and do therapy and, you know, all this kind of stuff.

It's hard. Um, it's overwhelming. It's, it's crushing because so many times, um, you know, drinking is the answer. It's not the problem. So we're drinking because I don't wanna feel this, I don't wanna, you know, we're kinda, um. Slugging it down as far as we can, and then sobriety comes along and it's kind of on shaky ground, like, you know, like a little newborn animal.

Right. And I just have to make sure that that's, that's okay. That that's taken care of, um, in a, in a good place before the deep dive, you know,

Andrea: So, so you think,

Emily: So,

Andrea: you think that you had to stop drinking first before you could [00:46:00] address the feelings that were bubbling up or? Did you think it was better to address the feelings that were bubbling up and then try to stop drinking,

Emily: well, I learn through error, so, you know, I relapsed a lot, a lot. Um, and. That's, you know, that's a whole nother circus. So it wasn't gonna be, it wasn't gonna work that way. Um, for me because I of did try to do it all and you know, oh, I wanna get better. Oh, I'm dying inside. Oh, I'm feeling too much. Oh, let's put on a good face.

Oh, let's go to a meeting. I'm not drinking today. You know, it's just like a bomb waiting to go off actually. So, um, I really had to figure out [00:47:00] this thing that was so difficult for me as a woman and as a mother is like, I gotta make boundaries for myself. I gotta figure out how to survive this. Um, and the first thing I had to get through was staying sober.

And so that's really was my life for one year where. Um, I had to throw a lot of stuff in that direction that felt, it made me, I felt guilty about, um, time-wise and attention wise. Um, but I had to really submerge myself in my recovery program. And, um, I had wanted and somewhat started the book in 2014 and, no, I'm sorry, 2 0 0 4.

No, wait, hang on. No. 2014. Okay. 2014. And then my last, um, actually last institution of any kind was in, uh, 2016. And I left there knowing what I had to do, only because. I knew how I learned from a bunch of fail failing.

Andrea: Mm-hmm.

Emily: Um, the book.

Andrea: then did you pick up the writing, the book

Emily: writing the book started because, um, I was scared. I was still scared of like, I don't, I, if I go, if I do this again, I won't make it out.

I'll, I'm, I'm gonna die. That was not even a question. You know, I had been, I had so many questions and so much confusion about my past, um, in and around addiction, whether it was as a kid or a teen or a, you know, mom, whatever. And it was like a joke kind of, because the, the family would be being, talking about a story, telling a story or something, and everybody's yucking it up talking about it, and I'm like, I don't [00:48:00] remember that.

And they're like, oh, yeah, you, you were, you weren't here, you were at rehab. Yeah. It's like for everything, all these things that I missed because I was there and I'm like, which one? You know? I was like, so confusing. So it, part of it was just making a map of like, what, what all is that? Because I do have one of those lives where somebody's like, my God, you know, how have I never heard this before?

And I've known you 20 years. So, you know, my husband and I made a list of all the places I had been. Like thoroughly, we just sat down and kind of walked through it. And up until that point I had no idea what the number was. Um, and it turns out that, you know, I had been institutionalized at least 20 times.

And I mean, that is shocking. And, you know, I don't wanna give anything away in the book, but, um,

it's, it's hard to wrap my head around that. Um, even still because it's like, I, I had a whole nother life and, um, in these types of places, it's very, [00:49:00] it's very different than, you know, the normal way that we live. And so it started with like kind of a timeline, trying to figure out things like that. But then, um.

I really dug into this idea of like, you know, what, what contributed to this? 'cause in a way, I think I wanted to be able to find a spot in my past where I could be like, this is where it happened. It's gotta be this. And if this hadn't happened, then I would've turned out great. I would've had that life.

Nothing would've gone wrong and blah, blah, blah. You know, you know, like, we're gonna find it, like, put the puzzle together and like, make sense. And as I was doing that, I found this rich and fascinating story about myself that I never knew and writing about it. It, uh, my personal experiences was absolutely re-traumatizing.

And I still, um. You know how many years? Oh God. Many years. And, and I, I still struggle with PTSD on a regular basis and I have to see someone for it. And so there were times where I had to just stop, stop writing altogether, uh, whether it was for a week or for month, you know, a few months at a time. And I'm very fortunate that my editor was like, she got, she got it.

She understood. Um, but

my own, okay, I'm just gonna say it. I feel like this is a little calling out, but, um, I have two brothers and I don't have a relationship with either one of them really. I think, uh, I mean, especially one of them. But I think what's also interesting is we start uncovering our own story is coming to terms with.

The story that others have about us and whether or not it's wrong. And my brother, about a year ago, maybe, uh, was in town and I really wanted to talk to him about things that we've never talked about. Um, and also check on some things like assumptions I made just to, to figure out like if I was wrong or maybe I got it wrong.

And I asked him, I said, you know, I get the impression, um, that, you know, you kind of see me as like just your, your batshit crazy sister. And that's really it, you know, that's, that's my title kind of in your life. And, you know, he is like, I mean. Yeah, you're kind of the, you know, I'm basically like the, the crazy one and you know that it makes people do that, right?

Like, don't you know, don't, and this is well into my own sobriety. This is well after, like I've made multiple amends with both of my brothers, and I just thought that was so interesting. And then I said, okay, I also wanna check this. I also get the impression that you and others think that I blame all my problems and that I think my life has gone the way that it has because dad was an alcoholic.

And he said, yeah, like, it, it didn't hurt my feelings as much as it blew my mind. That this whole time, all these, uh, things that had occurred, I mean, blaming my father for my life, how my life turned out is so far from the truth. And yet this is my brother. You know, it's, it's so crazy the conversations we don't have in a family.

Um, and, and also that other, some people aren't capable of having, uh,

Andrea: Were you able to dive deeper into that

Emily: no,

Andrea: narrative? No.

Emily: And [00:50:00] one of the things about writing this book is that, you know, we have, we have like our own memory of it, but the most important thing to me in writing this book is that I told the truth that it was honest and it wasn't like worse or better or it was just like. Open for the, the reader, like, here it is, you know, whatever you wanna do with it, go ahead.

But I'm just gonna tell the truth. Um, um, and so I was having, trying to have a conversation with this brother and at my mom's house in regards to my dad's passing away, which is a very messed up story in the book of how that all went down. And I wanted to make sure that what I remembered was what happened in terms of, 'cause it involved this brother and he, it, we couldn't have the conversation.

We could not have the conversation. I had to just finally tap it out because, you know, he was mad and he's, he's like defensive and he, and really all I'm doing is gathering information. So, um. And I, I do, I think that this is one of the inherited things of like, I was forced in a way, um, to, to learn new things, whether I was in a rehab or whatever.

But this kind of, um, area of my life where other people didn't, you know, in my family now or then, didn't have to deal with in the, at the level that I have, they, they, they can't talk about these things. My older brother can't, like, we don't even know how to do it. And so part of the generational thing for me, I know I'm talking nonstop, but I wanna get to this, is that, um, I wanna make sure that my kids are equipped to become adults who can talk about these kind of things, who have practiced it.

Before they are out on their own in their life, so.

Andrea: I think that is a beautiful way to summarize this because [00:51:00] this way up is dedicated to caregivers and you are a caregiver who is sharing her journey with her own kids to ensure that they are healthier than she was growing and moving forward.

Emily: I think it's just about wanting them to have a better chance. And that's the best I can do. And, you know, caregiving is hard. It's exhausting and it's often unrewarded, um, in a moment to moment kind of way.

Andrea: Absolutely.

Emily: know, there's no assignment to complete, you know, you know what I mean? It's like,

Andrea: No, I do, I do. Your, your grade comes at the very, very end, you know, really on your, on your deathbed when you look back and you said, I did a good job.

Emily: Yeah. I mean my proudest moments now are like when as [00:52:00] as heartbreaking as it is when they don't need me 'cause

Andrea: I know. Isn't that awful?

Emily: like nobody warned me about this, you know.

Andrea: I know. Well, my, my mother-in-law did.

Emily: Oh, good.

Andrea: was, oh yeah, I didn't like it at the time. He was two days old, and his head's flopping around and she says to me, she says, well, your job from here on out is to make it so that he doesn't need you anymore. And I'm looking at her, I'm like, what? And I totally get I, she warned me, even though I didn't like it. Tell us a little bit about your book, where they, where people can find it, and, um, and best of luck to you, you, your story is really

Emily: Well, thank you. And I hope I didn't talk too much, but anyway, um, so you can, I mean, it's on Amazon. You can order it off of Amazon. You can also order it at, um, like independent book websites, um, and bookstores. My, I've just discovered that it's, um, it's in a lot of Barnes and Nobles, which is super exciting and,

Andrea: Absolutely.

Emily: fun.

But, um, if you just Google it, wife, mother drunk, or type it in or go to, you know, it'll pop up.

Andrea: That's great. Well, Emily, you are really very, very brave and, um, I'm glad to see that you're sharing this and a part of you with the world because. There. We all [00:53:00] need to have more exposure to this stuff. Thank

Emily: Yeah. Well, thank you for everything you're doing.

Andrea: Let's just see if we can help. Just one person, Emily. We're okay. We've done our job, right?

Emily: That's right. 

Tara: ​I hope you're feeling a little lighter, a little brighter, and ready to take on whatever comes next. Remember, the journey of mental health is all about progress, not perfection. So keep climbing and don't forget to celebrate the small wins. If you enjoyed today's episode, be sure to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with someone who could use a little lift.

Thanks for tuning into this way up.