The Franchise Edge | Nancy Bigley

In this episode of the Franchise Edge Podcast, host Jamie Adams interviews Nancy Bigley, president of Unleashed Brands’ Snapology and The Little Gym. Nancy shares her experience in the clothing industry and how she accidentally fell into franchising after a friend connected her with American Leak Detection. Bigley talks about her initial role in running the company’s operations and her eventual transition into franchising. The episode highlights Bigley’s lifelong love of learning and her willingness to help others.

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(exciting music)- Hey, welcome back to the"Franchise Edge" podcast, brought to you by Scorpion. I'm your host, Jamie Adams. And this week I'm talking with my good friend Nancy Bigley. Nancy is an Unleashed Brand. She is the brand president of two of their brands, Snapology and the Little Gym. She's been in franchising for over 30 years. She started her career at American Leak Detection. She went on to work at the Dwyer Group. Now of course, neighborly Dunkin' Brands. She started her own company, her own franchise called Bottle and Bottega, which she eventually sold to Painting with The Twist. And she went on to work a COO at Painting with The Twist for a period of time. Been at Unleashed Brands for a few years now. Nancy and I are really, really great friends. I would say that she is one of a handful of people during the pandemic years that I locked arms with. Spent a lot of time on Zooms talking about things we were doing to kind of make it through. She's a wealth of knowledge, lots of operational experience. She's highly, highly involved in the IFA. You're gonna love this conversation. And I can't thank Nancy enough for taking an hour and spending that time with me at IFA this year. So without further ado, enjoy this episode with Nancy Bigley from Unleashed Brands. We're an IFA, so that's exciting.- Very exciting.- On present day weekend.- That's right.- A little bit odd. Next year's Super Bowl weekend.- Oh, is it? Oh.- It is. In Vegas.- Okay, we gotta start planning for that now.- So I better be invited next year. Otherwise, what else am I gonna do?- Yeah, let's do it. I'm inviting you.- Okay, great.- Today on record, on camera.- Great. So how many years have you been in franchising now?- Mm, 30-ish.- 30-ish. Okay.- Yeah.- Long time.- That's a decent amount of time. Yeah.- That's a decent amount. It's respectable.- Do you wanna know what I was doing 30 years ago?- No.- Okay. Are you sure?- Yes.- Okay. All right, all right. Well, maybe we'll talk about that another time. All right, so you started American Leak Detection.- Yes.- That's okay. So now this is what I love about franchising, especially like I've got great relationships with so many of you beautiful ladies in franchising, many of who are in the trades.- Yes.- Which is crazy.- Isn't that interesting?- It's very interesting.- I know.- So, of course, Sanda, who was with us last night, and I've had her on the podcast before.- Yeah.- How did you get into American Leak Detection? A plumbing based company.- I know. Isn't it weird? Completely by accident.- Okay.- So I was in clothing industry right outta college. That's sort of what I had done up through college, high school.- This makes perfect sense, knowing you like I know you. Yeah. Okay.- Right? I mean, you know.(all laugh) So, and I just didn't like, like as I was getting into it more and you know, and you're out of college, and you're like,"What am I gonna do with the rest of my life?" And I realized like that whole industry was not my jam and it wasn't fulfilling. I didn't appreciate the people that were in it. It just didn't feel genuine to me.- Okay.- So I'm like, I need to get out of this now and do something different. Completely different. So a friend of mine actually said,"Hey, I know this guy. He owns this franchise company called American Leak Detection, and he is looking for someone to run his company on operations." I'm like, "Great, let me, you know." So I did my interview and actually he had hired someone else-- Interesting.- By the time I interviewed with him. So I didn't get the job immediately'cause he had already hired someone. And then he called me back, I don't know, six months later, three months later, four months later. And that person had left me. He's like, "Hey, I really liked you. She's not here anymore. I want to hire you." So I'm like, "Okay."- Okay.- Didn't know anything. And back then, you know, you had to look things up, like by paper.- Yeah. Yeah, yeah.- So I couldn't Google and like, "What's franchising?"- Right.- So, yeah, it was just very organic. And I started off in running their company owned operations, they're company owned unit, and had really good success there. And started, you know, going,"Hey, what are you guys doing? What's this franchise thing?" Like, "Do you need help over there?" And I'm always been a like,"Hey, if you need any help, let me help you. Hey, I can help you with that project." That's just how I've been my whole career.- Yeah.- I love to learn, I love to try things I've never done before. And then I just fell in love with it. And the wins I was getting at the company owned unit, I started sharing those wins with franchisees. They started going, "Hey, we heard you did this."- Yeah.- "And it really worked great. Do you mind sharing it with me?" And then I just started. And it organically just moved me over there.- Yeah.- And I was there 12 years. Moved my way up through the company to vice president. So I really worked in every role that we had and helped build infrastructure and really the whole processes.'Cause, we were 45 units when I started, when I left we were 165. So we had our own warehouse.- Wow.- I ended up running that. Like, you know, it was just a lot of different cool things.- Yeah.- Which really helped me as I obviously started mine.- Of those 45 units, when you started, were they all company owned or all?- No, we only had one company owned and then the rest were franchised.- Okay, so you ran operations for, I would assume the president or the CEO's store.- Yeah.- And just got that dialed in. And then as he started expanding into the franchise.- Yeah.- He just took those learnings, and then applied them.- Yeah, I kept running the company, owning it for quite a long time. And then I started in the franchise side probably within a few months of starting.- Okay. I mean, I know it was a minute ago, but do you remember like, was there one big win, like one big needle mover in the operation side of the business early on that you still remember that it was like, man, when we did that, like it really changed either the economics of the business or the efficiency or both of those things? I know I'm putting it on the spot, but.- You know what was interesting? And it's weird that you say it's the one thing you remember, but the couple things I remember is just getting the West Coast group pretty much, it was the California group'cause we had quite a few in California.- Okay.- We were headquartered out of Palm Springs, which was the other reason I stumbled into it.- Makes sense.- Yeah. Because I live there. There's no other franchisees in Palm Springs.- I still haven't been invited to your house either, by the way.- Oh, you're invited.- Okay, thanks.- So I started bringing our franchisees together to talk about marketing.- Okay.- And like, sharing best practices. And then we started doing co-op marketing. Like, "Hey, okay, let's all do this together and pitch in." So I started organizing co-op marketing, which was not part of what we did at the time. It wasn't in our agreement, but it was more to me just logical.- Yeah.- Like, "Okay, we all wanna grow our business. Let's decide on what are the top three things we think are gonna move the needle and let's pool our money and do it together.- Yeah.- It not only did it really move the needle, but it just helped build that comradery. And it just helped us work better together. And it allowed us to share in other ways as we kept just moving through operations and other things, so.- That's really interesting. And I guess back then too, I mean you mentioned, you know, you don't have Google back then, right? It's like a different format.- I know I totally aged myself when I said that.- I remember not having Google.- Okay, good.- I remember AOL was a thing. You remember AOL.(Nancy squeals softly)(all laugh) Exactly. Exactly. I spent a lot of time, I'm not gonna talk about that. I spent a lot of time in chat rooms when I was a kid.- I bet you did.- I was looking for love, you know?- I know. In all the wrong places.- Well, clearly, clearly. Okay. But going back to the co-op piece. So what types of investments were those? Like Yellow Page co-ops? Were they, okay?- Yeah, well, Yellow Page, we couldn't really co-op, but it was more like direct mail.- Okay, yeah. Yeah.- Yeah. We didn't have digital at the time, so it was more direct mail. It was also like shows, so we would do a lot of like home home shows.- Yeah.- And so sometimes we could, sometimes it crossed markets and we could go to like one in LA that would cover a couple of different markets.- Yep.- So we could share registration fees, but other times it was like the booth,'cause those are expensive as you know. And so we would decide on what we wanted to have as a booth. We would go in on the cost and then we would just move it around.- Yeah.- From franchisee to franchisee. So, yeah. It was just very efficient way to work.- Yeah.- And help again, just build great relationships with that region.- Got it. Yeah, yeah. And again, just thinking about the operation side. And I do wanna come back to marketing 'cause you know, this is really about you know, sales and marketing.- Right.- But I just wanna get as much value out of your operational background'cause I know that that's where you spend so much time. But were there other things, again, as you were scaling the brand and as you were bringing in new franchises, were there like a handful of like really buttoned up process things or operationally oriented things that you feel like again really made the mark, and helped kind of the business get started off really well and humming quickly?- Yeah, I think definitely. I remember creating the work order, right?- Yeah.- So as customers would call in for plumbing problems- Yeah.- We were writing it on just pieces of paper.- Yeah.- Which is silly.- Yeah.- I'm very much about if we're doing something more than once we need a process for it.- Yeah.- And so, I was doing that work myself. So I would, okay, what am I commonly asking?- Right.- What things are we forgetting to ask? That was a big one too, right? Going back to marketing, which I keep telling you I'm not an expert in.- But you keep bringing us there.- I'm gonna keep bringing it up.- I'm gonna there in a minute.- I know. I know.- Yeah, just keep testing me. Keep testing me.- But you know, we'd forget to ask. And certainly, as I started hiring a team, it's like we'd forget to ask that question. Like, where did you hear of us?- Yeah.- And that was super valuable, obviously.- Sure.- For us to keep scaling. So I created, you know, a work order that we would all consistently use. And then just things like that allowed me to then start building better processes for the franchise, and start building training materials. And, you know, things like that. So it was just simple things like that and customer service. I mean, I legit, (chuckles) it's so embarrassing, but, so our customer surveys were legitimately postcards.- Okay.- That would go out. That would all come back to the corporate headquarters. And then I would type them into something.- Okay. All right.- So I actually created our first technology. I don't know how, like I read a book, like that's. If I don't know how to do something, I will find a book or something and learn it. So it was like our base or something. So like created this process to like put the cards into so we could actually spit out data that was useful.- Yeah, yeah.- Because it was all manual before that. And like, I don't even know what. So that was a great process to add in learning. It was obviously very archaic. But better than pad and paper.- Yeah.- And then again, that just gave us really good insights on what were we doing well as a brand, what weren't we, where did we need to do more training, where did we need to put better processes. So those were some really early on things. And then obviously as we pretty soon thereafter, you know, moved into the internet and all those things.- Yeah.- And QuickBooks was a really big lever that I pulled again, there just wasn't that technology of, you know, people calling in and like scheduling systems, and things like that. It just wasn't available.- Right.- 'Cause it was also new. So when QuickBooks quickly came online, and I sort of figured out a way to make that work for the franchisees- [Jamie] Yep.- And at least streamline processes for their teams, give them really good data back, be able to process invoices faster and get them out to customers. So that was a lot of our early learnings.- Yeah. So, like anytime I hear anybody in an operations role, like the two words that always pop into my head first or organization and process.- Yeah.- Have you always been just an organized process-driven person?- Yes.- Okay.- Yeah, and I think that's what I loved about being at American Leak Detection.'Cause, our founder, Dick Rennick, my boss, and really all of my bosses honestly, have been amazing at just letting me go. Like, just letting me try things.- Yeah.- And I've talked about this a lot over my career of like finding those people that will give you a safe space to fail and try things and see what good at, 'cause I didn't know what I was, I mean, I, I knew what I liked, but I didn't know I was, you know, just outta college. I didn't know what I was good at. And so being able to, you know, really explore the different departments and try different things, I found out very quickly. Like, franchise sales was not my jam. Like I was good at it, but I didn't like it.- Okay.- 'Cause, I was more about the relationship. I wanted to stick with it and see it all the way through and help those franchisees grow their business. Like that was where my passion was.- Yeah.- But yes, I've always been, my brain works very systematic. I like to not just execute something. I wanna understand it. So I wanna understand it so I can make sure that I'm building things the right way. So yeah, my brain's always been a clutter freak and all those things that like, probably borderline OCDA little bit, but. (laughs)- Yeah, I mean, look, I wouldn't prefer to you as OCD in my experience with you, you are a planner though. You're like one of those people that's like,"Hey, there's a concert coming 18 months from now, I'm gonna buy tickets right now and get it on your calendar." And I'm much more of like,"Hey, like, don't buy the tickets now'cause I can get 'em cheaper like the day of."- And I don't like that, Do I?- I know you hate that. It gives you like anxiety.- It really does.- Massive amounts of anxiety.- Yeah, yeah.- I get it. I get it. But that just goes to show your organization, like in your personal life, right?- Yes.- Okay, so you mentioned something a second ago, I wanna come back to, and like, I want you to think about this question, like through your entire career.- Okay.- Not just at American Leak Detection. But you mentioned about you enjoying working for bosses that gave you space to kind of try different things, and made safe to fail and learn.- Yeah.- Like is there a failing experience that you've had throughout your career that sticks out, and you're like,"Man, at the time it was like, this really sucks." But when you like put yourself three months later or a year later you look back and it's like,"Man, that was kind of the catalyst to all these other great things that happened because I had that learning." Is there something that comes to mind that you'd share?- I think, you know, probably a downfall that I have is taking on too much 'cause I, you know, and especially you know, that's how you grow and learn.- Sure.- And you wanna contribute. And I think saying yes to too many things and then kind of getting in sometimes, you know, a little over your head, and not being as great in execution as you normally would be.- Right.- And I think I learned that, you know, at a couple points where like, okay, you don't have to say yes to everything. No one's gonna judge you by saying no. And I've learned now that if I do say yes to something, that is like another huge piece for me. Like taking on another brand.- Yeah.- It's like, okay, that is gonna be a stretch for me, but this is what I'll need to be successful.- Yeah, yeah.- To feel successful and to actually be successful. And I am very comfortable having those conversations now, and being okay with, like, if I can't get those things, then I'm okay saying, well, then, I'm not willing to put myself in that position because I don't think it's gonna be the best thing for the brand. So I'm okay saying no now.- Yeah.- I wasn't comfortable. Before I felt that that was, you know.- Always pressure to say yes.- Always pressure to say yes. And then it was just more then I was spending more time, and more time, and more time. And like then, you know, it's like you can only work so many hours and it was just too much. You know, I was starting to get into those places.- Yeah.- So yeah, I think that's just your young learnings as you are trying to make a place, and you know, show that you can do things.- Yeah.- And can be reliable. So, but it's a track we can find.- I think also, I mean like, most successful people are successful because of, it's like a curse, right? You say yes a lot.- Yeah.- And for all the reasons that you mentioned, right?- Yeah.- You wanna try new things, you want to push the envelope.- Yeah.- You know, you want to, there's probably a little bit of, I wanna be the hero a little bit in some of that, but I do think like the older you get and the more experience you have, like you learn, you know, okay, what are the things that I can say yes to, and what are the trade offs I'm gonna have to make-- Yeah.- In order to actually do these handful of things really well.- Right.- Okay. So we're gonna get back into the career piece. So you go from American Leak Detection to Dwyer Group.- Yep.- Which is where I first met you a really long time ago.- Yeah.- How did that happen? Like, how did that transition happen?- So, of course at the time I think Dwyer had seven brands.- Okay.- So I went to work for Mr. Electric.- Okay.- And I'd been at American Leak for 12 years.- Yep.- Just some changes happening there. It was just time to do something different. I'd known the Mike Bidwell, Dina, like the Dwyer family for a long time.- Yeah.- So, and had been doing some work with Mike on some technology. Him and I were always very passionate about operations and technology.- Okay. Yeah.- And so, you know, had a conversation with him and he's like, "Hey, why don't you come here?" And so I interviewed there and went to work at Mr. Electric just for a short time. I was only there a year before I was recruited by Duncan.- Yeah.- And again, what I liked about Dwyer group, obviously they are to me the epitome of process.- Yeah, yeah.- So I always appreciated that and culture.- Sure.- And I really loved that, but I really wanted to, you know, I was excited about multi-brand opportunities.- Yeah.- And like how does that work? And how does one franchisee have multiple brands? And so it was again, just, you know, I had kind of reached I think the end of my learning.- Yeah.- And I was needing, and really wanting to learn more. So that was sort of my attraction there. But it was still service-based business. So I felt like it was still kind of along the lines of what I was already doing.- Yeah.- But I built some really cool programs there. They're low voltage lighting program and it's really cool for outdoor landscaping.- Yeah.- It was a fun project. So I was excited and learned about electrical.- Yeah.- And again, bought a book on electrical so I could learn about electrical and went to some classes. But, so when I got approached by Duncan, while I loved it at Dwyer. I was like, "Yeah. food, I haven't done food yet."- Yeah.- So it was just a big.- Ice cream too.- Yeah, ice cream.- I love ice cream.- I mean, who doesn't love ice cream.- Well, you know, I love ice cream.- I know.- Remember last night I went to town on that ice cream.- You did go to count on that Sunday.- No, don't put ice cream.- I did too.- Yeah, don't put ice cream in front of me and expect it not to be eaten.- Yeah, you actually do, I think- I did. You're right. That's very true.- So yeah.- I'm not ashamed of it either, really.- I know you shouldn't be.- Yeah, yeah. I feel good about it.- You should. You should.- I'm work it off later today. Trust me. I am. I'm gonna go for a run. It's gonna be great.- Good. Happy for you.- Yeah, yeah. So you go to Baskin.- Yeah. So I go to Baskin- Before we go, 'cause I wanna stay on the ice cream kick for a second. What's your favorite Baskin flavor?- Oh, man. What was my favorite? I mean, pralines and cream is always sort of my jam.- Okay. All right.- Love the caramel.- Okay.- So I always tried all of them.- Yeah.- All the new ones. But I always went back to that one.- I was a chocolate chip.- Oh yeah. That's a classic.- And what I love about Baskin is my grandfather, who we were really close, and he used to take me to Baskin- All the time. Oh.- And he was a butter pecan.- Oh, butter. Yeah. I didn't like that one.- I didn't either, but it later old, the older I got and I started trying and then I really fell in love with it. Yeah. So now it's like one of my favorites. But back, back in the day, his order was three scoops butter a pecan. Oh, yeah. He was a big guy. He was like 6'6. Played professional baseball.- Okay.- So three scoops for him. One scoop of chocolate chip for me. And then I'll never forget whenever he like graduated me to two scoops- And I've never gone you back to one.- Aha, you felt like a big boy.- I've never gone back to one. I mean, at minimum when I go to Baskin, it's always two scoops, sometimes three.- Sunday or just.- No, no, no, just straight out up.- It's like, honestly, it's like that's one of those things where it's a straight nostalgia thing. Like I don't think I've ever been to Baskin and not gotten chocolate chip ice cream.- Wow.- Just chocolate chip ice cream. Yeah, a lot of it's just because of the nostalgia of like.- I didn't know that- I remember-- Yeah.- Very vividly. Like tens of times going to Baskin with my grandfather, yeah.- That's cool.- Anyway, I digress.- You do- Good personal story though.- It is.- Okay. But so you want to get into something else besides services and trades?- I was ready to change.- Food sounded interesting.- Yup.- Okay. What was that experience like?- It was awesome. It was a very large organization, obviously.- Okay.- I can't even remember how many units Baskin had at the time. Thousands. So, yeah, it was great. You know, it was challenging of course, which I like.- Yeah.- I don't want it to be easy. Always want it to be difficult.- Yeah.- Not difficult, just challenging.- Yeah.- But no, it was great. I had started off, I think I had the Northern California region, so I had, you know, a couple hundred units when I started maybe 300.- Okay.- And then I was given more responsibility across the country. So by the end of it I had 950-- Wow. Yeah.- Locations and teams kind of across the country. And then I started again, had a wonderful boss.- Yeah.- There that allowed me to try things. Again, just saw my process-driven brain. And so I started running some of the divisions in headquarters.- Okay.- Which was awesome. So again, just kept, you know, expanding my learning in the restaurant business, which I, again, I didn't have any experience in.- Yeah.- So here I come in female, it was the only female on the team, which is fairly normal back then.- Yeah.- No food experience. All of my counterparts had been there for years, forever.- At Duncan specifically.- Yeah, yeah.- Okay, got it.- So they're like, "Who is this girl?"- Yeah.- "She has zero restaurant experience."- Yeah.- "What's she doing here?" But again, I'm a collaborator, I'm a team builder and it was a great team. We had amazing people. I met so many great people there that I'm still friends with today. So, but yeah, it was great learning. And again, operations is operations, but really learned multi-unit franchisee. You know, we had a lot of franchisees that had multi-units.- Yeah.- We had some that also had, at the time we had Togo's, so we had Baskin Robbins Togo's, which was a California sandwich chain.- Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember that.- I think they had just acquired them a couple years earlier. And so I had a lot of good relationships with that team'cause we were all West coast based.- Yeah.- And then of course, Dunkin. So I had some franchisees that had Togo Baskin Combos, I had some that had Dunkin Baskin combos. And so, you know, the learning there was very interesting about, you know, when you have, you know, co-branded brands that are like side by side.- Right.- Like how does that work? Does it work? Didn't always work with Togo's, because as you can imagine, you've got onion smells over here and then you have chocolate chip over here(Jamie laughs out loud) doesn't always go together.- Yeah. I feel like the Dunkin Donuts and the Baskin contents would be. Yeah, yeah.- Yeah, much better smells.- Yeah. Yeah.- Much better smells. And so, you know, we learned things like that. You learn things about which brand your franchisee is most passionate about.- Yeah.- Sometimes usually there wasn't equal passion. And so, you know, you would notice that in sales, right?- Yeah, yeah.- Because they go to what they know and what they like better. So it's just a lot of great learnings like that. Like how can you, you know, divide the focus, how can you share teams? How can you, you know, create passion, and make sure that both brands are getting equal focus. And then how do different brand teams work together?- Yeah.- Because when you've got co-branded locations, who's in charge? (laughs)- Yeah, yeah. That makes sense.- And it's like, which brand is the dominant brand?- Yeah, yeah, yeah.- Which brand is gonna make the most decisions? And so again, you had to be a good collaborator.- Right.- Otherwise you were fighting internally. Like, no, that's my decision. No, that's my decision. And the franchisees are like, you guys figure it out, and let me know when you get there.- Yeah.- So that was, again, nothing. I started to just get into that a little bit when I was at Dwyer, but not as deeply.- Yeah.- And so I really got into a lot of that going over to Duncan.- Were there big differences in how a brand like Duncan thought about marketing relative to Dwyer? And, you know, 'cause again,- Yeah.- I think one of the challenges like that service-based businesses have, right? Because that's primarily our customer base who work a lot of the service-based businesses, I refer to them as o' (beep) businesses.'Cause like, you don't really think about them until like, you have kinda of that oh, (beep) moment.- Yeah.- Like, oh, God, like my plumbing burst.- Right.- Or I had a car accident, I need an attorney.- Yep.- My, my tooth hurts. I need to go see the dentist. It's like marketing a business like that is quite different than marketing like a food and beverage concept.- Yeah.- But were there anything specifically that you recall in that like the differences between like how those, you know, your American Leak Detection and Dwyer thought about marketing versus, you know, how Duncan was thinking about marketing at the time?- Yeah, I mean, I think kind of the points you made are the ones, right? Where the service-based businesses, yeah, like, you just had to be where people would look for you when they needed you.- Yeah.- 'Cause yeah, with electrical, it was a little less urgent. It was sometimes people just wanted to like redo all their lighting.- Sure.- So we had a little bit of, you know, sort of, you don't really need us, but it's sort of an upgrade type situation.- Yeah, yeah.- So we could be a little different in that way. But with Baskin and Duncan, all of our brands, like yeah. We had to be visible, and we had to try to pull people in.- Yeah, like, storefronts poured in.- Oh, yeah, storefront. Your POP, like what's on your windows? What are you advertising? We had a lot more, you know, quarterly and monthly driven promos. So like the Sunday of the month.- Yeah, yeah.- And then you're pushing all on that. And if you got that wrong. (laughs)- Right, right.- You know, it had an impact on sales.- Yeah.- And I think the balance certainly that I had never dealt with before that it really carried forward with me in other brands is the discounting, right? So, you know, very promo driven brands, you have to be careful because if you're too promo driven.- Yeah.- And then your customers sit back and wait until that promo happens, and then they're not gonna buy from you until you have it.- Right.- And so I was very tuned into that and trying to... Again, marketing wasn't my responsibility, but I had, you know, still I was responsible for my budget and so marketing drove my sales, right?- Yeah, yeah.- So I had to be really plugged in with my marketing directors and my field marketing teams, Linda.- Yeah, I was gonna bring that up.- Yeah.- Linda Black with our team.- Yeah.- She worked there.- Yeah.- I feel like it's like if you're in franchising long enough, you're gonna come across people that spend time at Duncan.- Oh, yeah. Oh, 100%.- I mean, it's just like. Yeah.- Yeah, it's a big beast for sure.- I'd love to see like the pedigree org chart of everybody in franchising and like, which ones came out of the Duncan Base? Yeah, yeah.- I Know. Yeah, it was a great experience. So, yeah. So we were definitely more about foot traffic and grabbing people's attention and then, you know, or you know, I remember at the time, we did a lot of direct mail, so there's a lot of direct mail drops. We did do more direct mail too at the service brands.- Yeah.- Well, probably'cause back then that's all we could do.- Yeah, yeah, yeah.- But it was still a very big play for the Baskin brand. So yeah, I think it was just really way heavy on the promotions.- Yep.- And the you know, coupons, and all that sort of craziness. And then the in location EOP that we, you know, put up in studio.- Yeah. Right.- But this was a funny story. I don't know why I did this, but we had a problem with our franchisees holding on to old POP, and then they'd have so much of it, it was like years worth all over the place.- Okay.- So none of it made sense, right? Because you're only supposed to use the current promotional.- Yeah, right, right.- And then you've got some, you know, green ones that like work all year long, but like, they, like if they had one that was their favorite, that really helped, they would always keep it up. And so it was ridiculous. So I had this crazy idea for my team of like, going into all of our stores, and literally ripping down all the POP, and whoever, like, got the most down. Like, I gave them something, it was a contest. And so I had (laughs) one of my guys had rolled it all out, like all the ones that he had pulled down and it just went on for miles. Like, it was crazy. I don't know, I just like went nuts once'Cause, I was just like,"This is a mess. It's crazy." And just again, my obsession with cleanliness and like order, I'm like,"This is not logical."- Yeah.- "This isn't working. You gotta get this stuff down, so."- It's like breaking out in hives.- We just did it ourselves.- This is like coming out in front of you.- Yeah, I don't know if it was a good idea or not, but it did clean up some stores.- All right, so a few minutes ago you mentioned like how you love challenges and difficult things. I would imagine there's very few things more difficult than starting your own business.- Yes.- So you started a brand called Bottle and Bottega. How did that come about? Like, how did you go from being an operator and working in operations your entire career to,"I'm gonna go the entrepreneurial route and I'm gonna start a brand"?- Yeah. It was, again, a very organic occurrence. And so I've done mentor, been a mentor for most of my, not all my franchise career, but a lot of it.- Yeah.- So IFA started Franship.- I remember that.- John Rachi started that. I can't even remember. It was a long time ago. So I was one of the first mentors with him and with the group. And I've been one ever since.- Yeah.- So I love to do it. And it just brings me joy. And actually met with one of my mentees this morning, it was lovely. And so anyway, I had a friend, a mutual friend of mine and my soon to be business partner. She and he had reconnected. She was catching him up on what she was doing. So she had started our business, different name, but it just mobile. And so she was getting interest in franchising.- Yeah.- So she said,"Hey, like, do you know anybody that knows anything about franchising?" And he said, "Yeah, as a matter of fact, I do."(Jamie laughs) And so he said, "Hey, would you mind talking?" I'm like, "Yeah, not at all." And she's in Chicago. And so we connected over the phone. And I just kept working with her and working with her as I usually do. But I just found myself like putting business plans together, putting performance together, and really kind of crunching numbers, and really kind of doing way more than I would normally do.- Yeah.- With a mentee. And after about, I don't know, three months, and she's like, "Well, I think we should." Or, "I think I should franchise this, but I really don't have the experience that you do." Like, would you be interested in doing this with me? And I'm like, "I might." And I was already starting kind of to think the same thing. Like, "Hey, I wonder if she'd be interested in me doing this with her."- Yeah, yeah.- So again, I think it was just, you know, I feel like so many of us have that itch to sort of start our own business.- Sure.- And see if we can bring all the learnings that we've obtained over all the years, and like, can we be successful with our own business? And I'd always wanted to do that. And I'd sort of looked before, like, well, maybe I'll be a franchisee, and I'd looked at businesses, but nothing really, I wasn't passionate about anything. Nothing really stuck with me. And so, one thing.- It's your passion about wine.- I know.- Yeah.- And I love art. I'm horrible at it.- Okay.- Like, I'm not an artist at all. Yeah, but I know from franchising, like you don't, I'm not gonna be instructing. My business partner was an artist, so I had that comfort there.- Yeah, yeah, yeah.- But I'm like, "Yeah, I'll bring the wine experience and you can bring the art." So yeah, we did it and launched it. And it was.- What was the original name?- Bottles and Brushes.- Bottles and Brushes. Okay.- Yeah, so I'm like, well, we won't be able to get trademarks on that, it's too generic.- Okay.- And I think there was another company out there that had the same name as well.- Okay, got it.- So, I'm like, we're gonna have to change that, so.- So, did you go through a process?'Cause, this is a marketing thing.- Yeah.- Did you get through a process to get to Bottle and Bottega? Or did you just?- I did. Yeah. Her and I, we wanted to try to keep the B and the B.- Yeah.- And keep as much of it as we could.- Yeah.- So we just started coming up with different names. And we probably had, you know, 50 different versions of it.- Okay, yeah.- And written out or the sign, and just all sorts of different things in the order. So when we got it down to, it took us like probably a month-ish to kind of play around with it.- Okay.- And do some research and, and then when we got it down to probably the top five, we sent it out to, you know.- Got it.- People in our network that we felt would be objective, and give us feedback. And then we landed on Bottle and Bottega, and we came up with our little bottle logo.- Yeah.- And rest is history.- There it was.- There it was.- So you sent it out. How did you land? Or what was their Bottle and Bottega like? What was the second? What was the number two? Do you remember?- Oh, I think it was the same but just reversed. Like.- Bottega and Bottle?- Yeah.- Oh.- Yeah, yeah.- Ooh. It's got a ring to it.- It does.- Yeah. I think Bottle and Bot.- Oh no, no. You know what it was? The S. Do we put the S on bottles or have it be singular?- Bottles. Okay.- We went back and forth on that for way too long.- Got it.- Yeah.- It does roll off the tongue though.- I know.- It does.- Yeah.- And then, you sold that business.- I did.- You sold the painting with a twist.- Yes.- And then you went to Painting with a Twist. You were COO there for a bit.- Yep. COO then CEO.- Hung out in New Orleans.- Hung out in New Orleans.- Oh, man. What a great city.- I love it there. I miss it so much.- We can go back.- I know, that's true.- I was just there last weekend for Mardi Gras.- I know.- It was a blast.- I did not get that invite.- I'm sorry. It was not my trip. I went on a trip with somebody else.- Okay.- But maybe next year.- Maybe next year.- Kinda like Vegas and me coming to dinner.- There you go.- Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. All right.- You're gonna wait and see how that plays out first I know.- You're right I am. I definitely am. But Painting with a Twist again, New Orleans company, right?- Yeah.- So I remember I was living in Shreveport for a long time'cause I grew up in that area. And I remember when Painting with a Twist came to Shreveport and it was like, every female I knew.- Oh, yeah.- Including all the ones in my family. Like my mom, my sister, like, they didn't even drink wine. Like my mom and my sister, they didn't even drink wine.- Yeah.- Except when they went to Painting with a Twist.- Yeah. Oh.- And then they were like really living on the edge.- Yeah.- Yeah,- They're like,"We had a glass tonight."- Exactly.- And look what I did.- Exactly. Exactly.- Liquid courage. You need it when you're painting.- I certainly do, man. You don't wanna see me paint. Goodness gracious. So, like did you enjoy that though? I mean, the sale transaction and then getting in, and managing another because they had a lot of scale at the time.- Yeah.- And they were, you know, lots and lots of locations, so.- Yeah. You know, it was amazing.- Yeah.- I was so happy that, you know, it's not easy to sell your company. It's hard to make that decision. And I share this when I do training with my franchisees. Like that the call that I had with my franchisees telling them, not only was I selling my company, but I was selling it to our largest competitor.- Yeah.- Was the most difficult call I've ever had to do.- Yeah.- 'Cause, it's your baby and it's very, very personal. And they bought into my business instead of Painting with a Twist for a reason.- Yeah.- Now, luckily, and I also share this example, never talk bad about your competitors. And I never do, never have. And so I always had great relationships with them.- Yeah.- With Painting with a Twist, with Kathy and Renee. And it helped in the transition because I never talked badly about them to my franchises.- Yeah.- So it wasn't like, oh, we're going to this company that I've been saying awful things to.- Yeah, yeah.- But it was important for me to go with them if possible. And so, you know, you never know if the people that are buying you want you to come with it.- Sure, sure.- So we had a lot of conversations about that. Joe Lewis was the CEO at the time, and my boss, and we talked very openly about, well, how is this gonna feel for you? Like, you're running your own business, you're selling it now. You're not gonna be the CEO, you're gonna be the COO.- Yeah.- And we had just very honest conversations, which I prefer. And that's how I started my partnership with my business partner was like,"Let's talk about all the ugly things that can happen and let's just get it out of the way and make decisions before it happens."- Yeah, yeah.- So if they do, we've at least already had the conversations, and we've agreed to how we're gonna move through it.- That's great advice.- So I did the same with Joe. And we just really openly talked about it and at the end of it, I felt really good about how he felt, how Kathy and Renee felt about me coming onboard, and how I felt about it coming onboard. So, the transition was great. I felt good about helping my franchisees through it. And a lot of the things that I built, we ended up keeping at Painting with a Twist, which made me really proud that I was the smaller brand.- Yeah. Yep.- But you know, I went into it, and Kathy and I talk about this all the time, like, and it's how normal founders start a business. I'm different 'cause I come from franchising, so I knew what I needed to build. But as you know, you've talked a lot of founders, they don't usually have franchise background. They don't get into it to get as big as they get.- Sure.- They just had a passion for their business, and they just wanted to... Like, I think Renee always tells me she just wanted to buy a pair of boots. She just wanted to make enough money to buy a pair of boots. And Kathy I think wanted to go on a trip or something.- Crazy.- So they didn't have the big aspirations. She's like, well, we're just doing the best we could. So I think, you know, I had a little more pre-thought in some of the things I built'cause I had the experience.- Yeah.- So it was cool to be able to bring that forward. And then we ended up buying during COVID, Color Me Mine.- Yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember that.- Yeah, so that was great. And then we formed Twist Brands. So, you know, just some great opportunities there with learning more about distribution. So my experience running the warehouse at American Leak Detection came forward in a big way. Now we had two huge warehouse distribution companies.- Yeah.- And way bigger scale, obviously, than what I had done back then. But just a lot of things really kind of coming together. But yeah, just a really fun brand and really fun people. And they were very wonderful at sort of accepting me and my team, and my franchisees, and being very respectful about what we had built.- Yeah.- But also look, some stuff we got rid of. And I get that. And I knew that was gonna happen. So I didn't have any, I wasn't personally attached.- Yeah.- Because I had expected everything to be changed.- Right, right. I remember us talking a lot around at that time, just about some of the stuff they were keeping, some of the stuff that they were not gonna keep, but just how great you were feeling about the dialogue.- Yeah.- And the conversation, and how open it was.- Yeah.- So I think, you know, the other thing about that brand is, (chuckles) I mean, talk about, I hate talking about the COVID year because it was just such a.- I know.- But I do wanna talk about it.'Cause, I mean, like, talk about a brand that who's kind of the way they did business was really disruptive.- Yeah.- So how did you, you know, how did you handle that?- Yeah, yeah, it was rough for everyone. I do remember saying to my team that day, like, this is where our leadership comes in. This is where the rubber meets the road and we have to step up our game.- Yeah.- And really show how great we are. And we did. And so we had to flip to virtual. So we immediately worked with our distributors and created painting kits. So canvases with paints and whatever we could.- Yeah.- It wasn't pretty. And I think what we learned, I learned so many great things. I hate always saying that.'Cause it feels like, well, why would you say it was a great time? It wasn't a great time, but I learned a lot of really great lessons.- Yeah. Right.- But we learned we could be super scrappy and we learned that as long as we told people things were gonna be messy, whether it be customers or franchisees.- Yeah.- They were so okay with it, right?- Yeah.- And so it's like, look, we're putting these kits together, things aren't all gonna be the same from kit to kit because we are literally piecing things together from different sources.- Yeah. Right.- So we'll do the best we can. And then just, you know, really just shifted everyone on our team to different roles. Like where did we need people to plug in?- Yeah.- And our instructors became, you know, instructors on camera and we recorded it. And then we had to find ways to upload it and share it. And it evolved over time. Like it was very messy at the beginning, but again, we said, "It's gonna be messy. Just hang in there with us, do the best you can."- Right.- "We'll keep improving the process as we go." And we did. And built just some amazing things really quickly. I always say like, what we built in like a 30 to 45 day window would've taken us two years.- It's fascinating, huh?- It was insane.- Yeah.- And so, you know, as we came out of it, I'm like, let's try to remember the lessons that we learned, which is things don't have to be perfect to launch.- Yeah.- Don't make them messy. But like sometimes I feel like we wait too long with a great idea.- Yeah, just get started.- And then, you lose the edge, right?- Yeah, just get started. Yeah.- Just get started. Like get it to as good as you can and get started.- Yeah.- And be okay. You know, give good feedback. Don't be mean. Like, just work as a team.- Yeah.- And work together to figure it out and make things better. And I think it helped a lot as we came out of it. And you know, had a different level of appreciation for each other.- Yeah.- And that, you know, our level of expertise. And that we would go to bat for each other. And figure it out, so.- Yeah. I love that comment that you made though. Just getting started. And then, you know, just something that you guys got done in 45 days that you know, look back and like, "That would've taken us two years."- Oh, yeah.- Such a mistake that people make.- Yeah.- And think that something has to take forever to get done.- Yes. Yup.- And you gotta be like so particular and meticulous about it, so.- Yeah, well, and I also learned too, I'm sure you did as well and lots of people did, you also saw things that like you thought were super important.- Yeah.- And you couldn't do them because you had to reshuffle everything.- Right.- And then all of a sudden, you're like, huh, well, maybe I just.- Wasn't that big of a deal.- Wasn't that big of a deal, right?- Yeah, yeah.- So I think that was another great lesson of just really making sure that what we're working on are the right things. Let's not try to do so much.- Yeah.- Let's focus in on the smaller things that are gonna move the needle the most in the business.- Right.- And like, yeah, it might be a good idea.- Yeah, you might think you need that, but at the end of the day, do you really?- Yeah.- And I really try to remember those times for those two specific reasons. And try to remind, I'm obviously at a different brand now, so the experience was different. But I try to bring those forward even with my franchisees now and be like,"Okay, is it really that important? Or is it just emotion-- Yeah, yeah.- That's driving how we're feeling and what we think is important?- Right.- 'Cause, ultimately, it's not what we think is the most important. It's what our customers think is the most important.- Yeah.- And I think we do kind of lose sight of that sometimes.- Yeah, totally get it. All right, but it is not where you are now, as you mentioned a minute ago.- Right.- You're now the president of the Little Gym and Snapology.- Yes.- Which are two Unleashed Brands companies. So tell me a little bit about what's going on there and how'd you get there? What are you excited about? All the things.- All the things.- All the things.- So by the end of my little over three years at Twist Brands, and I had become CEO there for a short time, and there was just some ownership changes that were happening-- Yeah.- That I was very much a part of and they were wonderful, and being very open and sharing. And so it'd been 10 years all in-- Yeah.- Between my business and that one.- That's crazy.- And I was like, again, same thing, I'm like, yeah.- It just doesn't feel like it was that long.- I know, yeah. It was seven years with Mine, three years at Painting with a Twist.- Yeah.- So I just again, had felt, and having gone through COVID, I think that I did so much, you know, really, I think good work during that time and really helped in a big way.- Yeah.- And I don't know, I just felt like maybe my work here is done. And so when the Unleashed opportunity came up, and Joshua, I have a couple friends that work at Unleashed.- [Jamie] Yeah.- And Josh and I actually had collaborated about a year earlier. So you know, very much about-- Yeah. Yeah, yeah.- [Nancy] The collaboration in my network. Yeah.- Yeah, and Josh, he's so involved in IFA.- Yeah.- He's great about stuff like that.- So, they were just forming Unleashed Brands at the time.- Yeah.- They hadn't acquired any other brands. We had already formed Twist Brands, and were starting down that path of sharing services and all of that. So when I knew that's the path Josh was starting to head down, I'm like, "Hey, can we do a call? I'd love to pick your brain and see what you guys are thinking." I'm happy to share what we're doing. Like maybe there's some common synergies that we can learn from each other. And it was just one of those normal conversations.- Yeah.- So that was how I sort of learned about Unleashed Brands, and what the vision was of Michael, and what he was trying to build. And again, it wasn't for job related anything, it was like a year prior.- Yeah, yeah. Yeah.- So it just was filed away in my head. So then when I was thinking like,"Huh, what do I wanna do next? Where would I want?" You know, I mean, I've been at so many amazing brands, I'm not just gonna go anywhere. I wanted to really do something, you know, what's next after you've run a company a couple times, right?- Yeah.- Like, do I wanna do that again?- Right. Right.- So it's a lot of those questions that I just wanted to add value somewhere and where would I wanna be. So I reached out like, as a joke, like,"Hey, you guys wouldn't happen to be looking for any CEOs or COOs would you?" And like, "Yes, as a matter of fact we are." So it was just very sort of coincidental. But the only reason, you know, Josh popped into my head and my friend James Franks works there as well.- Yeah.- Because I respect both of them, and I know that they wouldn't be somewhere if there wasn't good things happening.- Yeah.- And that was sort of my logic. So it was just a very organic conversation. And then I met with Michael at the time they had just acquired the Little Gym.- Yep.- And oddly Snapology.- Yeah.- But that wasn't my focus at the time. So I think it was about, yeah, maybe they'd had it for three months. Michael had taken over running and was the CEO. It was just temporary till they found someone else. So when I spoke with him, again, a very different industry that I've ever done before.- Yeah.- So that again, was appealing to me'cause I'd never been in the youth enrichment space before, but I just felt like, wow, man, like helping children build a strong foundation. Because for us at the Little Gym, it's not just about the gymnastics, right?- Yeah.- That is the core. But when I really started digging into it, it's also about, you know, helping them build their brain muscle.- Yeah.- And socialization. And making sure that they can socialize really well with other children. So it's this three dimensional learning that we do and it hits all three of those pillars. And that was not something I was aware of, so it just really connected with me that,"Man, I could have an impact on kids." That's pretty fricking awesome.- Yeah.- And felt very purposeful for me. And Michael is an amazing visionary. He's very clear on what he wants.- Yeah.- Which I loved. He's very data-driven, which I also am. And I love that.- Yeah.- And so I just really connected with him. I connected with his purpose and his vision. Really loved the brand and yeah, just came onboard.- It's really cool that you, you talk about like just how you are about the kids' angle. And you're right. I was thinking as you're talking about that, like, you're teaching these kids, not just gymnastics, but you're teaching them like interpersonal skills.- Yeah.- 'Cause I grew up in a really small town in Louisiana, like 1500 people.- Yeah.- There was no like, organized anything like that, right?- Like our version of that was like little league baseball.- Yeah.- And bitty ball basketball, right?- Yeah.- But like those practices when you're like 5, 6, 7 years old.- Yeah.- Like, I still remember elements of those things and just, you look back, and man, like it did, it teaches you, or at least it taught me like, how do you get along with other kids.- Yeah.- And you know, how to deal with envy and jealousy because somebody scores a bucket, and you didn't get to score a bucket.- Right.- Like, I mean, there's things that like-- Yeah.- You don't really think about at that time. But if you look back- Oh, yeah. It's huge. And just, you know, not all kids look like me, right?- Yeah.- I've been in gyms the last two days visiting franchisees, and just watching, and observing. It's what I love to do the most. I just wanna see what's going on. I wanna see the interactions. I wanna hear the conversations.- Yeah.- And you know, and I watch how artfully our franchisees and our instructors navigate, you know, kids that have some special needs.- Yeah.- And how do you integrate them with the other children? And I, I think it's so amazing, one to, not that we're focused on special needs, but we have many in all of our brands. But seeing how they've grown, but also seeing how their kids in their other classes,'cause it's, you go the same day at the same time.- Yeah. Right.- So you get to know the kids and the moms. And you see the kids embracing those children more and playing with them. It's not like they're off by themselves.- Right.- And you know, but when you've got kids that are screaming and they're having a minute, and how do you deal with that? And again, it just, it teaches you, and those little kiddos just like how to kind of navigate through that. And parents too.- Yeah.- I feel like our brand does so much even for moms, especially for our little ones'cause we start at four months old.- That's crazy.- Yeah. And so for many of our moms, it's their first child and you know, it's scary.- Yeah. Sure.- And there's things you don't know. And so they're learning from other moms, like, oh, no, it's fine. Mine did that too. It's okay. They're not gonna die.- (laughs) Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it creates like a community for the moms. That's awesome.- [Nancy] Yeah, yeah, that's really cool.- Well, one, and I know you're like, not in the marketing sphere, but look, I mean, when you think about the, you call it youth enrichment.- Yeah.- So when you think about like, those types of organizations and businesses, and concepts, I mean, there's a lot of them.- And then coupled with that today with like, there's this generation of like, younger kids that constantly like, have devices in their hands too.- Yes.- Like I've got a 4-year-old, almost 5-year-old nephew. And I mean, I guarantee the guy can, like, he can navigate an iPad better than I can. It's fascinating.- Yeah.- But how do you compete? How do you separate yourself and differentiate a brand like Little Gym, like Snapology as a place that parents should prioritize for their kids when there's so much choice?- Oh, yeah.- Coupled with like this whole digital revolution of kids just, here.- [Nancy] Yeah.- Give 'em the iPad and let 'em just.- Let 'em go.- Yeah, yeah.- Yeah, it is tough. And I think, again, I think the curriculum that we build with our three pillars, and it's a very similar pillar structure for Snapalogy. So you know, for Neology we're steam based. And so it's more of like that, like a brain like mine, right?- Yeah.- It's more that analytical child that's, you know, got a affinity for like math, and science, and all those different things. But you know, it could be too focused on just curriculum and academic.- Yeah.- But we build in the socialization and the fun because it's not just about the learning, it's about all of the other parts that go with it. Same at the Little Gym that I talked about. And so that is a big focus for us, is really making sure that our parents understand that it's not just about jumping around in the gym. It's not just about building robots.- Yeah.- It's about bringing kids together on a regular consistent basis so that they learn consistently, but they also just learn how to engage and socialize. And oddly, not oddly, but interestingly after COVID one of the byproducts, like we are asked all the time, like, how does socialization factor into your brand? So that is really important to parents now. And as you do surveys, like.- Yeah.- They want their kids to be socialized with other children'cause they missed out on so much of that.- Yeah, yeah.- So that's a big part for us. And then just the way that we build relationships with the family is also critically important. So, you know, last two days I'm sitting in many of my gyms visiting my franchisees, and they're not even asking names.- Yeah.- They know all of their families. So they're just checking people in without asking.- Yeah.- 'Cause, they already know. And they know the kids' names, and they welcome them and Hey, "how did this go?" And they know the things that are happening in their life. People don't leave you very often when you have that type of a community that you build.- Yeah, right. Right, right.- And so building that type of a community with our families is really different, and not something that you can get always by doing some of the other, you know, brands out there or just other activities-- Yeah.- That are competing for our dollars, which, you know, it's still a real thing.- Sure.- But I think that consistency too that we have where it's same day, same time, same kids, and they're seeing the progression that's happening is important. And then at some point they do sort of like, wanna do more competitive gymnastics, and that's not us, right? Or they wanna try karate or, you know, and that's sort of why our Unleashed Brand's vision is the way it is. It's like, great, why don't you go? (clears throat) You know, if you're done at the Little Gym, let's try Snapology.- Yeah.- Or let's try PMA karate.- Right, right.- And keep it within the family.- I tried karate once.- Did you? how'd you do? Not great.- No, not good.- You didn't like the outfit or?- You know what? I mean, I kind of felt like I looked pretty awesome in the outfit. I mean, this is like"Karate Kid" days, you know?- Oh, yeah.- Because the "Karate Kid" was like a big movie.- Yeah.- Or back when I was a kid. I didn't like the fact that I didn't get to wear the black belt immediately though.- Oh, you just wanted to jump right over to it.- Yeah, I mean, Daniel's son was wearing the black belt.- Yeah.- And I didn't get to wear the black belt.- So what I'm hearing you say is you didn't wanna put in the work.- Listen, I didn't think about it in from that perspective at the time. What I really didn't enjoy it was like getting kicked in the face if I'm being honest with you.- Oh, yeah, that would be the case, yeah.- Yeah, that was the part that I was like, wasn't so much about the work. I mean, I played college tennis, Nancy, I mean, I've put in work.- I know.- I'm not scared of working hard.- I'm just asking- Man, I'm like having trauma now. I didn't like the white belt.- Apparently. I mean, there's other colors.- The white outfit with the white belt does not look cool.- I think it looks kind of cool.- I don't know. Yeah, we'll talk about that later.- Okay.- Okay, so we started just talking about being here in Phoenix at IFA. You've been a huge part of IFA for a long time. You mentioned Fran Friends, is that how it's called?- Franship.- Franship. Franship. I know you're really active in Women and Franchising. You've been president of that organization before. Talk just a little bit about what IFA means to you, what it's meant to you in your career and just how you think about your involvement in IFA and different programs.- Yeah. I mean, truly, you know, starting off in franchising so young and our brand was very small, so we were still learning what franchising was.- Yeah.- So having a structured environment.- Yeah.- To actually learn franchising was amazing. And you know, you don't wanna just stumble through things, especially legally and you know.- Sure.- So I had mentors throughout from IFA from you know, our legal team that we worked with who just embraced me and taught me franchise law. And I asked questions all the time about, what about this? And what about that? And how would you do all this? And why would you do that? And and I did that in every discipline and franchisee. And I'd meet people that were really good in their discipline and like,"Hey, would you mind doing a call with me? And I just have some questions." And I hear this even to even today that IFA and the members here are so welcoming.- Yeah.- And they truly are. And that's why I think I'm so passionate about Franship because we didn't have a mentor program back then, but I felt I had so many unofficial mentors that gave me so much of their time. And so I feel like I need to do that. Not need to, I want to, I'm very passionate about it because people were so wonderful to me.- Yeah.- But I don't think I ever had anyone who were like,"Yeah, no, I don't really have time for you."- Yeah.- And I was, you know, completely just didn't know what I was doing back then.- Yeah.- So it started off in that way. And again, women were not in executive roles very often-- Yeah.- Way back then when I started. And so, I also really appreciated the female leaders like Dina Dwyer who, you know, was a CEO of this big organization- Yeah.- And who was so approachable.- Yeah.- And Mary Kennedy Thompson.- Yeah.- Who wasn't there at the time, but was leading other brands, and.- Right.- People like that, who were like, yes, I am happy to talk with you whenever you want. And they guided me in so many great ways, but also just gave me the confidence that yeah, I could aspire to those roles too.- Yeah.- There's not many of us in those fields yet, but there's some that are, and they're wonderful, and I'm getting the learning. So that's just truly the organization I feel really just helped me build the experience and my passion, and help guide me in the right places. And then it became at a personal level, right? Where some of my best friends are here at, like, I met them at IFA, we do trips together. You and I do lots of things together.- Yeah.- Like outside of IFA stuff.- Yeah.- And they're true friendships. And when I think of the list of some of my best friends, I'm like, I met them here. And there's just something different about friends that understand business because I don't talk about my work to my friends at home that are not in business or not in franchising.- Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.- 'Cause I feel like it's just a burden maybe and they can't quite connect with it. They're interested. So I'll share some things, but when I'm trying to navigate things, like, it's just, I need people that have been through it. I need people that understand. I need people that I can be in a safe space and cry sometimes, and be like,"God, this is so frustrating."- Yeah.- And when you go through those experiences and conversations, you can't help but create lasting friendships.- Yeah.- And that has been the most special byproduct, I think, of this organization for me.- Yeah. yeah. And I hear it from so many other people, so I know it's very common.- Yeah, I mean, I agree. I've never been on the franchise side of franchising. I've never been a franchisor or franchisee of anything. But I would even say like, all the things you described about IFA is also true for the suppliers. I mean, always great relationships with all the people that you mentioned. I mean, Dina and Mary are two of my favorite people in all of business.- Yeah.- I mean, they're just brilliant and they're just joys to be around. Of course, you and, Sanda, and Susan, and Paul. But even like guys like Brad Fishman who's been, you know, in the vendor side of franchising forever. I mean, I remember a few years ago, it was longer than that, now I'm gonna age myself like, you know, 15, 12, 15 years ago- Yeah.- When I really wanted to get more involved on the vendor side of franchising, and like trying to network and navigate, you know, being a newer business, and a newer person in that.- Yeah.- And Brad was like,"Come here, I've got you."- Yeah.- And he's been that way ever since.- Yeah.- So I think IFA like really does foster those types of relationships, which are really awesome, so.- Yeah. And you're right. The vendor relationships.- Yeah.- 'Cause you know, you guys were with me with my brand.- Yeah, yeah.- And you know, Dash.- And your team, like.- Yeah. Dash is coming. Dash will be here later today.- Oh, he'll be here. Aw.- We were laughing. This is a sidebar conversation. But like we have such a fantastic team.- Yeah.- I mean, like our events team, it's really two ladies, and I'm not gonna say their names because I don't wanna be poached. No, that's not true, well, Ally and Bree.- Yeah.- They take take care of everything.- Yeah.- They take care of our party, they take care of our booth.- That's a lot.- They take care of like organizing this crew, what we're doing here. But they, when they send us like our hotel information, it's all of our legal names.- Oh, right.- Which, you know, everybody knows me is Jamie. My real name is James. She sent out the whole list of all of us coming. And I was like, James Adams is will be there, you know. And then Dash's real name is Charles.- Oh, I didn't know that.- So he's like Charles will also be, and like, he's like, who is Samuel Crawford?'Cause, Patrick Crawford's, his name Samuel.- (laughs) Oh, that's funny.- So you had all these like people, it's like, who are these people?- Who are you?- Yeah, exactly. Because that's not what we call each other.- That's funny.- Anyway, sidebar. But yeah, I know Dash worked with you closely at Bottle and Bottega.- Yeah. And like that's how I learned about SEO, right?- Yeah, yeah.- And like, and so my vendors that I worked with, in particular at my brand, but also probably at every brand.- Yeah.- Like, have always been a great mentors to me too. Because again, it's things I don't know or things that have changed. I'm like, can you spend some time educating me and help me really understand what this means. PR, legal, SEO, digital, and like I love that too, right?- Yeah.- It's not about selling me more stuff, it's about wanting to make sure that in my role I feel confident enough-- Yeah.- To make decisions, to have conversations. And that's invaluable to me as well. And there's again, just so many that I don't even officially work with that will do that for me too.- Yeah. Yeah.- That I think is amazing. It's not always about the cell or it's not always about anything else other than just wanting to help. Which is very rare.- Yeah. Very rare. It is not always about the sell, but sometimes it's about the sell.- But sometimes it's about the sell.- Sometimes it's about the sell. That's right. That's right. Look, I know we've been here for a while. You met with a mentee this morning, you've got leadership meetings all day today. Thanks for taking the time.- You're welcome.- If you wouldn't have, I would've like harassed you anyway.- I know. That's why I said, "Yes."- [Jamie] But I do really appreciate it.- Yeah, you're welcome.- And tonight we have the Scorpion Party.- I know. I got my disco outfit already.- Discoing in the desert. I'm not really an outfit guy.- I know. You just kinda come in here.- But I'm kind of doing.- You should. Makes it fun.- I'm kind of little bit tonight. I'm gonna hug the line.- Are you wearing leather pants? Or what are you doing?- No, no, no. That's a good idea. I might get some leather pants between now and then.- Yeah. Yeah.- We could work on that. That's a good idea.- It'd be fine.- I'm sure the guys over here would like to see me in leather pants.- Probably not.- Okay, well, I do have something that's a little bit, you know, more out there than what I typically would wear, so.- What? Like a belt. Like a gold belt?- No.- Oh, I'm not gonna tell you.- Gold shoes.- No, I'm not gonna tell you.- Silver?- Okay. All right.- I'm not gonna tell you.- Headband?- But you're gonna like it.- Okay.- But what we're gonna do after,'cause this episode will come out after we're done with IFA.- Okay.- So what I'm definitely gonna make sure it happens is we're gonna get a picture together.- Oh, yeah.- So that we can like throw that in the credit.- Okay, perfect.- The show credits at the end tonight.- Yeah.- So, you know, make sure that you show up all outfitted up.- Oh, yeah.- Okay.- That's my jam, man.- All right. Well, look, I appreciate it. You're awesome.- Thank you.- All right, see you, Nancy.- Bye.(exciting upbeat music)