Conscription Gender Equality, Greenland Independence, Part-Time Parents: LWID S3E8

Katie and Narcis review this week's top headlines including Denmark’s push for drafting women into the military from 2026, the shift of Greenlandic political powers after parliamentary elections, and a recent trend of young parents opting for part-time work to balance family demands.

In this episode:

1. (04:46) Women to be drafted into the military from 2026
2. (14:34) Latest election results from Greenland
3. (21:11) 40% of young moms opting for part-time work

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Chapters

• 2:43 Top 3 news intro
• 4:46 Conscription of women in 2026
• 14:34 Greenland's strive for independence
• 21:11 More young parents choosing part-time work

Transcript

SPEAKER 1

Hello, everyone. Did you miss this voice? This is Narcis George Matache and I'm back on the Last Week in the Map podcast together with Katie.

SPEAKER 2

Nice to see you. I guess no one else can see you, but I can see you looking very well. I can see you've got a new haircut.

SPEAKER 1

Thank you, thank you. I mean, there's election season or preparation for election season coming up soon, so I need to start caring about how I look and how other people see me.

SPEAKER 2

I hate when that happens. I miss, you know, the days. One of the very few things I miss about COVID is it got very normal to wear sweatpants and you can't really do that out and about in work these days.

SPEAKER 1

Well, it depends which kind of workplace you have, because some workplaces got so Well, Millennial or Gen Z, that also that I don't think people care anymore what they wear at work or at least they don't care so much.

SPEAKER 2

I think I could get away with it, but I'm not sure it's the right message to send.

SPEAKER 1

But what about if your manager comes in sweatpants? Does that normalize things?

SPEAKER 2

That's true. We do have a secret plot on Monday. We have our company-wide meeting and our CEO always wears black turtlenecks or polo necks so we do have a plan for all of us to wear black polo necks and I don't think he'll listen to this podcast so this will not ruin the surprise for him but I'm very excited.

SPEAKER 1

Laughs.  That's good, sharing company secrets on podcasts. I mean, that's the beauty of podcasts, right? People are willing to say stuff that normally they will not share on other platforms. That's how many politicians make terrible mistakes. They are so happy to get invited to podcasts and then they get overly lets just say cozy or overly confident and then they get to say stupid stuff like I remember one of the Danish politicians that's one now one of the top leaders, he got tricked into saying that he wants to legalize cocaine into a podcast and obviously as you can imagine you might think oh nobody's listening to this podcast, well someone is listening There is always at least one listener, right? And that one listener obviously made sure that all the media in Denmark knew the next day what he said on that podcast.

SPEAKER 2

As is their duty as a podcast listener to make sure any embarrassing thing anybody says is worldwide news.

SPEAKER 1

Exactly. So today, Katie, what are we going to talk about today? What are the top three news that Last week in Denmark is bringing to us this week?

SPEAKER 2

Oh my God, I'm so excited. I have so many opinions. Hopefully good ones, but we'll see.

SPEAKER 1

What do we have? We have mandatory female conscription. Ooh. Katie, are you ready for the army? Have you done it? Have you done it? Have you served time?

SPEAKER 2

I don't think they want me to be there. I'm a bit useless. Okay.

SPEAKER 1

And then we're gonna jump into, obviously, the elections in Greenland. I mean, to be honest, I feel like even people from my remote village in Romania have been watching the Greenlandic elections. It's incredible.

SPEAKER 2

It's a twist of events, right? Isn't it? Like I, well, this, I, This makes me sound ignorant because I can be quite ignorant because I don't stay on top of politics because Irish politics is quite frustrating but I am so like enthralled by everything that's happening in Greenland now. I love it. 

SPEAKER 1

Do you happen to know more what happens in Greenland than what happens in Ireland?

SPEAKER 2

Probably. I ignore a lot about what's happening in Ireland. I'm like, it's probably broken. I'll have a look later. My mom will let me know all the major news. It's usually about the weather.

SPEAKER 1

Okay, and then we're gonna end today's podcast with a part about there is a general trend in Denmark that more young parents are taking part-time jobs instead of full-time jobs. They are cutting down the number of hours they work up to five years after the birth of their first child. That's a long time to do that. Katie, are you in a situation of being a young family or?

SPEAKER 2

No, I don't have any children, but I still struggle with breakfast so I need to get more into a rhythm of eating breakfast on a regular basis before I can commit to a child. But I honestly, I'm surprised that this trend is just young parents. I think most of my friends would opt for part-time work if they had the option when it comes to obviously compensation.

SPEAKER 1

There is a trend among young families, but they take obviously, it's not because they have the option for it, it's because they choose to get paid less due to other reasons that we're going to be discussing during that segment. So should we start with the first segment?

SPEAKER 2

Yes, let's do it.

SPEAKER 1

Mandatory conscription for women. So, dear young listeners, especially female ones, are you close to 18 next year? Well, get ready because you're gonna be called for draft day, where you're gonna have to give a fitness test, get a lottery number, and if you get picked up, you will go for the next 11 months to serve in the Danish army. How exciting.

SPEAKER 2

Some people will find that exciting. I imagine there's a lot of people who are feeling a bit intimidated. I know my mother would be like, "We're moving. We're moving country. We're not having this".

SPEAKER 1

Well, funny enough, you know that in Denmark just because you moved here when you were young or even just because you're born here doesn't mean you automatically get Danish citizenship. So if you're an international from an international family which neither of parents is Danish, it could be very likely that you could turn 18 and you do not have Danish citizenship, which means unfortunately you will not be called for draft day.

SPEAKER 2

So unfortunate.

SPEAKER 1

So I guess you can call it as the get out of jail free card for internationals, international families you can say. But if the international family has gotten the Danish citizenship in the meantime, then through family reunification, I guess the whole family will get citizenship. So then you'll have to face this new reality. But Katie, what's your opinion about it? I mean, Denmark is only the third country in Europe to do this, right? After guess who? Who do you think is the other two countries in Europe that already do this for a couple of years?

SPEAKER 2

Is Russia involved in any way?

SPEAKER 1

No, European countries.

SPEAKER 2

Oh, sorry. God, I actually don't know. It wouldn't be France. Where would it be? Germany? No. Where? Oh my God, tell me. We could go on for days.

SPEAKER 1

No, no, it's fine. They don't even have drafting Germany due to other historical reasons. It's actually Norway and Sweden, as you can imagine. Surprise! Can you imagine? Of course it's Norway and Sweden. And what do you think is the main reason of why they introduced this?

SPEAKER 2

This is my, well, I imagine that they're doing this now because they're worried about an impending war and having enough resources. Like I think also in the newsletter is about kind of there's going to be paid education for soldiers as well, so kind of making it more attractive to more people. But I think what gets me more than anything with this is just like, why is this a thing? It feels very anti-Denmark to be like, let's make some people go to the military. I was asking my partner about it and she was like, oh, well they're not necessarily sending people to war, it's just you could be drafted. I'm like, yeah, but that feels very American, you know? It feels like the opposite of everything that Denmark kind of stands for in terms of individuality and freedom and progression. And then it's like, oh, but we might make you do military work. Sorry.

SPEAKER 1

Here is more about the gender equality, because when Norway implemented this in 2015, they were the first country in Europe, they did it not because there was an impending war with Russia in 2015. They literally did it because they believed that it's unfair that men gets called up for the draft day, the young men get called up for draft day and young women do not.

SPEAKER 2

I agree with that.

SPEAKER 1

Basically to make it more equal in the name of gender equality, they did that. And that's actually one of the strong arguments in the Danish side as well. Yes, Denmark obviously has the fact that we are at war. So we need to expand the capacity that we have. But one of the reasons cited was literally gender equality. And that's why they used the cases of Norway and Sweden, which is obviously quite compelling to say, okay, look, Norway does it, Sweden does it, it goes quite well. It's all about gender equality, which falls under the Danish values. Therefore, it's quite weird that it wasn't done so far. Why have they waited so many decades to do this?

SPEAKER 2

Particularly if Norway did it so long ago. And I think it is like gender equality is a huge thing here and has been for so long. It is, it's an odd one to just overlook and be like, oh, but only men can go to war and do military things. But yeah, I completely agree with it from that point of view, from an equality stance of like women are as useful in the military as men, so this makes sense. But I just don't understand why there's this mandatory military service that feels very dystopian.

SPEAKER 1

Well, so far they only had like 4500 spots every year and usually those will be taken by volunteers because you either have the option to volunteer or you get the lottery number. Nobody got so far forced to go against their wishes. But now there could be changes because they have expanded the number of spots to 7500, one thing. And second thing is that they went from 4 months to 11 months for the first time. So now it might be less inclined that people will be so willing to be volunteering. So maybe for the first time the lottery system will make sense moving forward. But it will still be the case that not everyone will be serving. We're still talking only about 7,500 young people that every year will get selected. So not everyone will get to serve. But also I find this a bit unfair to be honest. Why should these 7,500 people have to serve? What about the rest? Either everyone should serve, regardless of excuses, or the other ones who don't serve, they should do something else that it's equally beneficial for the society. I saw some, there's a good idea from France where there's this public service called the Service Volontaire, Volunteering Service, where young people have to serve like a year, and do good things for society around, all around. I find that good. Okay, you don't get to go to the army. Congratulations, I guess. Well, there you go. I don't know. The firefighters units need some more volunteers. The people helping at the hospital need more people to support. There needs to be more people in the emergency units because there's so many floods lately that we need to quickly clean up the places. I strongly believe that this one year in service of the state will strengthen bonds with the state and with the society and will make people less individualistic. And for a country like Denmark, following or falling into this individualistic path is dangerous and very toxic.

SPEAKER 2

I see that, and I do. I agree that kind of. I would definitely be supportive of the the initiative if it was different ways you can support your community or if there's elements of choice so you can be drafted to do one of these 10 different things that will serve and help in this particular circumstance. Because like that if there is a war tomorrow, please know I'm not prepared, I only have water and toilet paper. But like that, you know, there needs to be people in hospitals, there needs to be people who are taking records of people, there needs to be people who are bringing clothes to different people and working with electricity, all that kind of stuff. So there is going to be a huge amount of needs so kind of the vagueness of it as well, just like oh you could be drafted to the military feels very daunting and very like oh only a small amount of you and there's gonna be a lottery again, a little hunger gamesy and then as well like I imagine you have to be in a particularly good physical condition so what if you have people who are like there's a lot of elite sports people so like you're training and you're working so hard during these years and then it's like oh now you have to go do military work instead of following whatever sport you're doing. Does that seem fair?

SPEAKER 1

Yeah, I mean, to be honest, no decision out there is perfectly good for everyone affected by it. That much I understand and that's clear. No such decision is ever fair or will make everyone happy. This is a question of need and security. Do we want, do we have enough people capable to fight in case of the worst case scenario? That's the question that we raise again here. And my worry is that 7,500 people every year is very little. It's extremely small number of people that learn how to shoot a gun. I would feel safer if I knew that half of the population in Denmark knows how to handle a gun, not just a couple thousand. Because that will make us stronger in case of occupation, in case of resistance against occupation and so on.

SPEAKER 2

I suppose it depends how far in denial you are when you're looking at this topic, because it's very like it's such a privilege for me to be like, that's not fair, I don't like that. And then it's like, okay, but in the real case scenario of war, what are we going to do?

SPEAKER 1

Yes. And I understand you, you come from a neutral country, Ireland has had a long history history of being a neutral country. You haven't fought in the Second World War, right? No. You and Switzerland?

SPEAKER 2

I think we send people places sometimes and then they do something. They're always fine.

SPEAKER 1

You're and Switzerland. I mean, even although now Switzerland has kind of reneged on their neutrality stance, and I'm not sure about Ireland. Have you heard anything? Are they switching?

SPEAKER 2

God, I have no idea. I imagine there's a plan to do it and someone will ignore it until the last possible minute, and then they might do something, that tends to be the Irish way. Or they try, do it badly, and then take 10 years to fix it.

SPEAKER 1

Okay, well, I mean, we don't have much time that much we all know. But let's talk now. We talk about, yeah, the, the current Global Affairs. And one of the big Global Affairs was the election in Greenland. We had in there a big discussion. Right. We were talking about Greenland becoming independent, a country of about 50,000 people with a huge, huge territory to administer and a lot, a lot of wealth hidden under the ice. And a location that's desired by Americans, Russians, Chinese, literally everyone with any sort of relevance and power in this world. To be in the place of Greenlandic people I wouldn't want to be because literally, you're like a diamond that everyone desires and wants, you know, like the ring in the Lord of the Rings, you know? My precious.

SPEAKER 2

It's exactly like that. And no one has your best interest. Everyone wants the ring for their own purposes. I think I said this on the last episode I was on, it's like, I worry in the sense of where is Greenland gonna go? And are they going to be with a country that has their best interests at heart? Or is it, you know, Mr. Trump, I doubt cares. So is he just gonna leave it as an economic hole and be like, I'll just strip your resources and then be on my way. So I was really happy to read this news. I feel like Greenland is being the adult in the room with this kind of, I think it was a surprise election of the moderates. And like that, this kind of, you know, there is this striving for independence, so they're not losing that, but it's doing it in a sustainable way. So kind of going, realistically, we do get a lot of support from Denmark. How can we as a country continue to function and be fully independent over the coming years to make sure that we can let go and be our own country? And I love that. Coming from an oppressed country, seeing an oppressed country doing it better. I think Ireland was a bit of a mess. We did try very hard, and I think, you know, we did get there in the end, but it was, there was a lot of fumbling around, a lot of disorganization. where with Greenland it's like, okay, you're doing this in a smart, straightforward way, you're doing what's best for the people and what's best for the country. So I was very happy.

SPEAKER 1

I was happy mostly because Trump's people got second place. Together, I mean, the moderates or the liberals, because they actually pro-business, center right party who won the elections, they can actually make government together with the Social Democrats and the Socialists, which are also on the camp of taking it slow. So the taking it slow camp has more than 70% of the seats, which gives them enough stability and power for the next four years at least. But we shouldn't ignore the fact that the Trump party got second place in Greenlandic politics. They will force from the opposition side, they will push everywhere they can the agenda of a referendum in the next four years. That's their desire, which is very unrealistic and to be honest outright dangerous. I honestly support in general countries' independences if it's needed, but in this case I find it extremely dangerous to let a 50,000 people country become independent in the middle of this dangerous mix. The position of Greenland itself doesn't help them much. It's not just about the economic resources, is literally the position of it. So even after all the economic resources will be plundered, it's about setting up bases in there. And it's about the fact that with climate change, Greenland will actually become a very temperate climate, good place to live in the next hundred years. So this is just future thinking, future proofing for many of the countries. And with the technocracy or the dark technocracy of US, I have a feeling that simply the rich people, the rich class of US, it's looking at Greenland as a place to safeguard their interests, safeguard future properties, safeguard places where their grandchildren can thrive and survive the way the Earth would look like. So there's people out there who think ahead. That much we know. And that's why it's not a question of who takes care of Greenland or who would exploit Greenland. It's literally who will occupy Greenland? And will they, I don't want to say this, but will they dispose of the locals in the process completely? It's not unheard of.

SPEAKER 2

It wouldn't be the first time, really, would it?

SPEAKER 1

It wouldn't. And honestly speaking, is it that difficult to remove 50,000 people? Look at Gaza, right? There's way more than 50,000 people there. There's millions. And they removed way more people out of there already. 50,000 people is very little. That's why I feel like Greenland's future needs to be within the European Union. I think we are the only ones that are sane or nice enough to not extort them too much, but at the same time to be powerful enough to protect them. But if they will go independent and break relationship with Denmark in the process, obviously the union will have to choose Denmark's side. And that will not fare too well for Greenland. So right now I'm being between two camps, like, okay, I support independence of any movement out there, but what is the consequence on a global scale? What is the consequence for Greenland? Will this be smart for them?

SPEAKER 2

I think it's moving in the right direction, but I think there's also just like the hopeful optimist in me that is kind of like, isn't there something really wonderful that such a small country in such a vulnerable position is choosing to kind of take a very sustainable approach to trying to get to where they want their country to be. Because this isn't a new discussion, independence in Greenland. So that they're sticking to their guns, but they're not being irresponsible. And obviously the Trump party, we will call them, came second. But there were enough within those 50,000 people to make what I think is the best decision for Greenland. I know they don't care what I think is best for them, but it gives me hope for Greenland that they're kind of, they're not unaware of the situation they're in and how vulnerable they are. They're just making sure that they move towards where they want to be. And even if it's only delaying the Trump party by four years, it is, that's giving them a better chance than if the Trump party won. And they were like, cool, we'll just go to America and get a bucket of money.

SPEAKER 1

Well, it was the bucket of money that got those votes in first place, right? That's how it works. And talking about money, we're going to go from Greenland to young parents working part time in Denmark. There is a trend now that 40% of all women in Denmark tend to go part-time in the first five years after the birth of their first child. 40%.

SPEAKER 2

That's insane.

SPEAKER 3

Did you know that the Last Week in Denmark newsletter is available in eight languages? Hey there. This is Fionn from the Last Week in Denmark podcast. And every week you guys are tuning in to hear me and my fellow co-hosts talk about the top news of the week in English. But let's be real, we're all internationals, so not only are you speaking English every day, probably also speaking a bit of Danish, but you've probably also got your own native language as well, like the multilingual master you are. So why not treat yourself to the luxury of being able to read Danish news each week in your own native language? So head on over to last weekdk.substack.com, that's lastweekdk.substock.com and sign up for our newsletter delivered to you every single Sunday.

SPEAKER 2

And I think it's a really troubling trend because obviously it is if it's mostly women that is a problem. I do think gender equality in parents is better here than say at home but at the same time it is like okay if it's mostly affecting women, that's a problem. We're already kind of on lower pay scales or have less opportunities in the workplace. So I can see why in terms of you want the higher salary, but I think it's indicative of a much bigger problem in terms of gender inequality. But I think there's also like a trend here, like we know there are declining birth rates and it's because everything is so expensive. I don't know how anybody affords to have a family anymore. So it is a case, I imagine the reason why they're taking part-time work is because just the workplaces in general are not very flexible. In terms of like being able to drop your child off, picking them up. I know there are sick days, again it's a much better situation than what I would have if I had a child and I was in Ireland. But it's not enough. And then it is like if you need to get childcare you need a really good support system. So say for example my partner is Danish but her parents and her sister and her husband live two and a half hours away. If we have a child who do we have to help us if someone is sick or if someone has to go to work? Something like that. So there's that kind of element as well that it is, I think this is signifying how unrealistic it is to have a family and work in this current, you know, inflation is increasing all the time and the house prices are insane. So it is, it's becoming less affordable to have a family. And then on the same side, we're like, oh, you know, we're not getting enough children. This is going to be a problem. It's like, yeah, but you need to make it easier on one side or the other.

SPEAKER 1

To be honest, I am in the situation of having a small child and I do not I feel that it has been such an expensive affair, to be honest. I thought it was a very expensive affair, honestly speaking. But the moment you get into it, the moment you realize that it's not as crazy as I was thinking.

SPEAKER 2

It looks very crazy from the outside.

SPEAKER 1

Yeah, it does. But the moment you're inside, it changes perspectives. And to be honest, I think most parents, they choose actually to earn less by going to work part-time. So if their main worry was income, I guess they wouldn't do that, right? But their main worry, to be honest, is the fact that they don't trust anymore the daycare system. Less and less parents, they go to the daycare systems and they are a bit okay, the opening hours are too short, they don't make it in time from work, because of commute, because of many other reasons, too long working hours and whatnot. So they cannot actually get in time to pick up the child. Then the second thing they see that, well, a lot of people who are pedagogues, they are not really, they tend to take way too many sick days and they tend to, there is not that many to begin with in there and the ratio between adults and children is it's increasing and that's many parents find it unsafe to leave their child with so few adults present for eight, nine hours a day. They feel unsafe and because of that they choose to prioritize the development of the child in the first five years to any sort, by choosing to earn less.

SPEAKER 2

Mm-, that's true. I can see that being the better option, particularly if it's, you know, you don't know who you're leaving your child with or you know there will be someone of these people but not everybody. But I do think there is an element of like workplaces not being flexible enough around family life. Like it is you're raising a family, unexpected things happen all the time. Unexpected things happen when you're just a regular person, but then if you have children, they're tiny germ machines, so you kind of get that added into the mix. But then they also have a lot of needs, and then you as a person have a lot of needs. So I do think there needs to be more of a kind of flexible approach. Honestly with everything, I think there's a lot of problems with organizations kind of enforcing like, oh it's a five day work week, but like realistically I could get the same work that I'm doing in five days done in four days, but I will get paid more if I go in on that fifth day, so I will. So I'm not surprised that this trend is happening and both in terms of whether it's finances, whether it's the quality of childcare, but I would also, I don't know if it's the same here, but I know in Ireland we have big problems with childcare because number one it's really expensive. I have, I had a co-worker who to pay for her son to go to daycare it was more expensive than her mortgage repayments.

SPEAKER 1

Okay.

SPEAKER 2

And so it just made more sense for her husband to stay home. But there was also no availability and like that the salaries were really low, so turnover was really really high. So they'd get used to someone who was lovely and fantastic and then they'd leave because they get better conditions and better work somewhere else. And kind of similarly there would be maybe one adult for 15 children and that's just not enough when they're very little children.

SPEAKER 1

Sometimes I go to the daycare here in my village and luckily because it's a village daycare they draft in a lot of the young adults who are there's the only daycare. So a lot of the young adults, 18, 17, 16, they are doing their practic there. So that kind of supplements the number of adults. Well, let's just call it air code adults. Because to be honest, I noticed that the young adults there feel more competent than the actual trained pedagogues because my daughter doesn't like to, to say goodbye or she needs to be, you know, you need to give her something to do so she forgets I leave from there. Right. The older pedagogues don't understand that. They keep insisting with this. "Let's go to the window and wave good bye" and I keep on telling "that's not, that's not working, she's gonna have, she's gonna cry" and I cannot stand crying. Therefore, she will not stay. But for me, it's. It's not okay. I cannot even allow 30 seconds of crying. And then because of that, I, I have to. Luckily, the younger people there got the idea and they always come up with ideas. "Okay, let's do this or let's do this activity or let's do this" Fantastic. I say, one day I'm gonna go and I'm gonna get them a cake or something to reward them because they are not even trained pedagogues, but they got the idea. They knew how to help me. 

SPEAKER 2

That's nice. 

SPEAKER 1

And I can count on them. But unfortunately, that cannot be said about my friends who live in the city. They, first of all, it was very hard for them to get any daycare and they got a daycare that was very far away so they actually have to drive there and then even that daycare because it's in the city it doesn't feel so safe for whatever reason I don't know why. I feel like if you are a family you should definitely try to go move out of the city. Go to the suburbs, go to the smaller cities you will get a much better daycare kindergarten experience. Yes, they will not probably have the latest, I don't know, tools in there, but they will be so, so much community driven, safer, better places for your child to grow in. I might be biased here, obviously.

SPEAKER 2

You're definitely biased, but in a nice way, I think.

SPEAKER 1

Yes. So if, Kate, are you living in the city or somewhere in the suburbs?

SPEAKER 2

Yeah, I'm on the island in Aarhus. So very city.

SPEAKER 1

Very city, my God. So if you're planning to start a family, you should really consider buying yourself a house or whatever.

SPEAKER 2

Well, I couldn't afford to live in the city anyway, no problem. Absolutely moving to the suburbs. No, no, I like this idea of going part-time. That'd be nice.

SPEAKER 1

You want to go part-time?

SPEAKER 2

I would go part-time now, honestly. But, you know, money.

SPEAKER 1

Yeah, that's a problem. And actually, to be honest, I understand that so many people go part-time and fair enough, it's all about flexibility of raising a family. But you have to understand the effect it has on the society because think about it, it's also doctors, it's also nurses, it's also teachers, it's also pedagogues who decide to go part-time. And that's dangerous because when a lot of doctors decide to go part-time, well, You said you can do your work five days work in four days. The doctor cannot say that.

SPEAKER 2

No, they can't. My job is significantly less important than that.

SPEAKER 1

No, no, that's about importance.

SPEAKER 2

It's about- no, I'm telling you my job is a lot less important than that.

SPEAKER 1

Okay, fair enough.

SPEAKER 2

Just in case you thought I might be doing something important.

SPEAKER 1

No, no, but I mean, we shouldn't rank jobs based on importance, but it's more about the fact that he needs to continuously take new cases. Right? When there is no such thing as end of day or end of cases. And the moment more and more doctors take less time, that means longer waiting time for all of us, which means bad, worse quality of healthcare. So you can say, yay, let's have more flexible, let's allow everyone to have part-time that can have a very, very dangerous impact on society.

SPEAKER 2

I suppose as well, longer term, more people on part-time less taxes, less money for the community. Like, there's definitely all these things, but I think that kind of contributes as well. Like, I think there is a lot of disillusionment amongst kind of young people, counting myself as young in my 30s hesitantly. 

SPEAKER 1

We are. 

SPEAKER 2

But just, yeah, I know. But just in the sense of it's like, "okay, I'm putting this much money aside for a pension, because that's very important. But also, will there be a pension for me?" And particularly now the retirement age has moved up to 70. So I'm like, "okay, what am I saving this much for? And will it actually be enough? Because everything keeps getting more expensive, no matter how much money I put in. Can I buy a house?" All that kind of stuff. 

SPEAKER 1

Katie, I'm sorry to tell you this, but the retirement age that just moved to 70, it's not for us, it's for the ones who are retiring soon that are much older than us. By the time we retire, we will be 77.

SPEAKER 2

What?! When do I have to retire?! I can't be doing things at 77. Is that even possible? Oh my God, outrage! Outrage!

SPEAKER 1

Because it follows the human life expectancy.

SPEAKER 2

I don't know, but then I think 86 this is a good number to drop dead. So 77. I don't have a lot of years not working after that. This is terrible!

SPEAKER 1

That's why most likely you'll retire early. Our generation is bound to retire early. A lot of us will probably go in that direction. But also our generation is very economy or let's say investment prone. So a lot of us are actually thinking about it and investing in side things, creating opportunities for them to create passive income. We are a bit more resourceful in that way. I swear I am doing the same. I'm already building up a plan of how to generate passive income so that if I want to stop working, I can do that. Right. So it's all about all of us are kind of looking in different directions. What could be the thing that I could do in case there is no pension because but also, you also have to think about this, Katie, it is highly likely we will live longer than the previous generations.

SPEAKER 2

But I'm so tired. How am I gonna work at 77? I'm tired at 32.

SPEAKER 1

But also, I think work will change a lot. I mean, the whole AI revolution and everything, it's gonna change things how they are. And now it's just a question about the, because right now here we have to think, okay, public system. Nobody wants people in the public system to work less because that's hey dangerous. But in the private system everyone is like yeah, yeah, why not? Four days, short days of work. Because it's not going to impact the rest of society because you work less at your company. But is it fair that if I chose to be a doctor or a nurse or a teacher, I have to be pushed by society to take extra hours to work more and you didn't, you don't.

SPEAKER 2

And then we find less people become doctors because there's less flexibility. And then we have a lot of people doing a lot of unimportant jobs part-time.

SPEAKER 1

Yeah. So here's the question, Katie. Do you still want to advocate for part-time work?

SPEAKER 2

I mean, if I'm working till I'm 77, yeah, I'll have to go to part-time at some point.

SPEAKER 1

Because it doesn't matter anymore, right? I mean, 20% less, it should be fine, right? How many hours would you drop down? What would be your ideal number?

SPEAKER 2

I think I would go from five days to four days. I think that would be fine. And I think I would get the same amount of work done.

SPEAKER 1

So 30 hours. Yeah. So 30 hours. Okay. Yeah. Majority of the people who went part-time, they do that. They go from 37 to 30 or to 25, the lowest, I would say. But it is still a day per week, it's four days out of your salary. That's 20% of your income.

SPEAKER 2

That's a lot. And I like money, so. Yeah, I guess I'll go to work.

SPEAKER 1

So, yeah, I mean, it's. It's a difficult dilemma right now. Right. Because. Okay. More people working part-time also should mean that there's more jobs out there. Right. So more, more work spots for more people. But we are not in a situation where we have people sitting idle. We have the lowest unemployment rate in Europe. We have like only around 80,000 people who don't have a job and many of them have a reason for it. And we are not exactly in a situation where we have mass unemployment and God, every extra hour that we can share with others is there. So it's a very strange situation where we have low unemployment and people who don't want to work. Due to the reason that this whole idea of having two full-time parents plus accessible daycare doesn't seem to work anymore, because that's the classic Danish model, right? Both parents will be working full-time and there is the state who will take care of the children. Problem is the state has hard time manning the daycares to keep up the quality because also people who want to become pedagogues also have families and are also taking part-time work and whatnot. They're reducing their hours. So you see.

SPEAKER 2

I see what you've done there. That is a direct parallel of causation. I see that.

SPEAKER 1

Yeah. Yeah. So it's, it's hard to, I mean, I understand people being on one side and the other, but if you want to stay in the middle, it's not about taking sides. It's about, okay, we know that daycares are less banned. What should we do? Maybe we should allow international pedagogues to work without speaking Danish. Maybe that could be one thing, right? That will increase the available workforce, and that could solve the problem and allow Danish pedagogues to work less.

SPEAKER 2

That's true.

SPEAKER 1

Without affecting daycare, therefore without pushing the other groups in society. to work less. So that could be a solution, right?

SPEAKER 2

I like that. Also, I feel for children's level of Danish, most people, like who are internationals, do have, like I would say I have a child's level of Danish. I think I could confidently talk to children about things. Yeah, so not their parents, but children.

SPEAKER 1

So that could be one way, right? Because the unemployment rate among internationals is still quite high compared to the average. So the number of people available and that would be happy to take this, I think there will be even internationals who have a job who would be happy to take an extra job simply because we internationals love to make more money. Some of us have moved here with the specific purpose of generating wealth with the purpose of returning or not home, that's irrelevant. But it is one of the driving forces among many internationals, is generating wealth, creating wealth. That's why they went to a country which allows them to do that. And therefore the inclination to take an extra job is much higher. For example, I have many international friends who have a normal full-time job but they still go and take night shifts at the factory. Why not? Because they can make extra money. Or they have a side gig in the weekend where they can make some extra money there as well and so on.

SPEAKER 2

Getting that pension together. Yeah, we only have 45 more years.

SPEAKER 1

If you're waiting for the public, yeah, for the public pension. I wouldn't count on that. Honestly speaking, one of the next crisis we're gonna hit in late 20s would be the pension crisis already. Denmark is going to be one of the countries hit by it. So that's why they are discussing right now. Okay, what should we do about it? But right now, because of the war that the whole discussion has been pushed on a side for now, but once and when the whole war thing will be, will be down, I think we're going to go back to discussing actually pension, because unfortunately, due to the fact that more people are getting old and fewer people are working, there's an imbalance in the money available, literally.

SPEAKER 2

So you are a double-edged sword, sir, because you know so many things like this has been so fun to do with you because you know everything, but you also know all the depressing news that I have made an extreme effort to avoid. Thank you. Now I'm gonna be really old with a pension that's no good.

SPEAKER 1

I'm not a great person to have around. That's why I don't have many friends. So, joking. But, yeah, I mean, when you know too much, it can also be a double-edged sword because it can depress you very easily. I have moments when I have to convince myself of things, that it's okay and keep moving forward.

SPEAKER 2

That's why you have to be ignorant. Then you can just be like someone else is thinking about it. It'll get figured out.

SPEAKER 1

It's so much better to be ignorant. Believe me. It sounds like a bad word. Well, it is a bad word. But honestly speaking, the less you know, the more likely you are to be less affected by it. But at the same time though, sorry, the less you know, also you will not get as many opportunities in life as someone who knows a lot.

SPEAKER 2

That's true.

SPEAKER 1

Because I had this discussion. Can you have the Danish dream? Is there such a thing as the Danish dream for internationals? Can an international accomplish every dream they have in Denmark? And my answer to that has always been yes. Any international that has enough knowledge and I don't know, is smart enough to do so, can accomplish anything they want in Denmark, regardless if they speak Danish or not.

SPEAKER 2

I'd agree with that.

SPEAKER 1

It's just a matter of will and it's a matter of wanting, wanting it really badly. That's why I like Denmark. That's why I like the system here. The system is built in such a way that people who want, get.

SPEAKER 2

Yeah, I like that too.

SPEAKER 1

Right? But don't wait for someone to give, because if you wait for others to give and share, then that's going to take forever. So that's why when people come and tell me, well, Denmark is such a bad country, I'm suffering in here, I'm like, you know, what do you do? You're also the same person who always asks for help, and you're also the same person who pays a consultant to help you deal with your taxes and whatnot. You don't know much about life in Denmark, do you? No. Well, that's why. So that's why what we do here with this podcast with Last Week in Denmark, I feel, I hope it will allow people to understand that the more they know, the more, the better it is for them. But also at the same time they need to have strong minds. They need to be prepared for the fact that not everything out there is positive. Not the more you understand, the more you start putting and connecting the dots, you can also seize potential bad situations that are not fun to know. It's just a question of preparing yourself for such situations and being aware that the world is not Pink, let's just say.

SPEAKER 2

That's fair enough. And on that cheerful note, will we end the podcast there or do you have any fun facts?

SPEAKER 1

No, no, no. It has been already. We've been way over time, so our audio editor is gonna kill us for this. But thank you so much for listening and thank you, Katie. It was a very fun conversation to have.

SPEAKER 2

Yes, thank you. I'm going to have an existential crisis now.

SPEAKER 1

Price of knowledge. Yes. Otherwise, I will see you guys. Well, I'm not sure when, but at some point in the next couple of weeks. And Katie, I hope we will have the chance to do an episode together in the future if we have the. The chance. It's the gods of the roster who decided. So I'm not sure, but. hopefully we'll have the chance to do it again. Otherwise, thank you so much for listening and until next time. Bye!

SPEAKER 2

Bye!

SPEAKER 3

Hey, this is Kalpita and Golda, co-hosts of the Last Week in Denmark podcast. Did you know Last Week in Denmark offers sponsored content in the newsletter? Our reporters are producing original articles and content tailored for internationals in Denmark.

SPEAKER 4

So if you have a business our readers should know about, let us write about it. Get in touch with us at reporter@lwid.dk. You can also reach out to us on LinkedIn and Instagram at Last Week in Denmark.