Denmark's Job Market Overhaul, Neighborly Trust, Solvej Balle & Win 4000 DKK: LWID S3E12

Kalpita and Fionn decode Denmark’s biggest employment reform in decades, weakening community ties and the benefits of good neighbor relations, Solvej Balle being shortlisted for the International Booker Prize, and share details about our latest referral campaign where you can win up to 4000 DKK.

Topics:

1. Jobcenter reform (01:22)
2. Making friends with neighbours? (14:00)
3. Solvej Balle's nomination (22:56)
4. Join the LWID referral campaign! (30:59)

In this episode:

Cohosts: 

• Fionn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/fionn-o-toole/
• Kalpita - https://www.linkedin.com/in/kalpitabhosale/

Audio Editor: 

• Cecilia - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ceciliagfoster/

Transcript Editor: 

• Jessica, https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessica-c-l-ekholm/

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Transcript

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Kalpita: 

Hello, everybody, and welcome to a new episode of Last Week in Denmark podcast. Today we are going to be discussing three very, very interesting topics. One is the reform of the job center, where there are few meetings and almost no sanctions. The other topic is good neighbors make safer streets. And the last one, and one I'm very keen about, is Solvej Balle's Booker Prize nomination for translated fiction. And the book is On the Calculation of Volume. We're discussing with Fionn today. How are you, Fionn?

Fionn: 

Hi, Kalpita. I'm good. I'm probably like everyone in Denmark. I'm getting over a cold or a flu or something that made a horrifying amount of snot shoot out of my nose over the last few weeks. But I'm feeling better. The sun's out more and more, getting more hopeful every day.

Kalpita: 

It's the start of summer.

Fionn: 

It is, almost. It feels like it. I think, yeah, yesterday when I was going to pick my kids up from their vuggestue and school, I could ride my bike without a jacket on, just in my t-shirt. And I thought, this is-

Kalpita: 

Freedom. [Laughs]

Fionn: 

The luxury life. Yeah, this is freedom. This is true joy in Denmark.

Kalpita: 

Yeah, speaking of freedom, the job centers are giving more freedom to those managing the job centers and taking away their funding. Like we spoke before, it would be easier to say that we are slashing almost 30-40% of the funding to the job centers, but they like to call it a reform. What do you think?

Fionn: 

Yeah, so the Minister for Employment has come out with what she's kind of claimed is the greatest simplification of employment, the employment system, in Danish history. The words in DR were abolishing a tyranny of rules, control, and suspicion, all of which sounds very good and very nice, but I mean you can look at it through a different lens and see that one of the key things that this is going to do is also save 2.7 billion kroner a year. Now saving 2.7 billion kroner is, yeah, as you kind of hinted at, a different way of expressing that, well, last year we spent 11.7 billion kroner, so we're effectively cutting the budget for helping unemployed people by 25%. So I I just have kind of mixed feelings about this, to be honest. Obviously, I think there should be adequate resources for people who are unemployed, particularly those who are maybe long-term unemployed, to upskill and get back into the job market. And if you view it through the lens of such a big cut, well then I definitely feel like it's a negative. But when I look at some of the steps that it's taking, I can kind of think back on the limited times where I've been unemployed or between jobs in Denmark and certainly say, okay, well this would have added- or removed a few of the hoops that I felt I had to jump through sometimes unnecessarily when, you know, I was applying for jobs and most of those had to do with actually speaking to the job center itself rather than speaking to my a-kasse. Or sometimes it felt like just getting on and sending out applications and going to interviews.

Kalpita: 

I didn't know that job centers had these rules and you had to follow those rules. I've also been part of the job center at some point. I think every International has been invited to the job center or has faced unemployment in some form or the other. And it is unfortunate that the job center is only as helpful as getting you labor jobs. That's some kind of cleaning, some kind of, I don't know, labor-intensive packing or stuff like that, while on the other hand, a-kasses are more efficient in finding new jobs, especially if you are educated, more than just doing a cleaning job. Although there's no shade on cleaning jobs, they're great, they pay you, they pay your bills and that's perfect. Having said that, everybody comes into the international bucket with education, nobody is here without a proper and good education. There are MBAs and engineers who are doing cleaning jobs. So I think if that freedom is now being awarded to every municipality that they need to employ unemployed people in their municipality, then I think they can do a better job of extending the job opportunities to white collar jobs as well, because nobody wants to- nobody dreams of being a cleaner for the rest of their life, let me put it that way.

Fionn: 

Yeah, and I completely agree with your sentiment in terms of this, absolutely. No shame in being a cleaner or having a kind of manual job. Sometimes the term "unskilled labour" is thrown around, and if you work one day in any of those jobs you will absolutely know that there's no such thing as unskilled labour. But yeah, one of the kind of core parts of this reform is that the government is basically removing the state requirement for the kommunes to have a job center in each kommune. Now, what that means, basically, is it will be up to the kommunes what way. They will still need to provide help for people to find jobs, but it will be up to them to figure out what the way forward that they do it with is. It is a little strange, I think, in one way. I mean, I hope there are benefits to it. You would maybe hope that there could be some innovation in this, and there does seem to be a lot of red tape or legal requirements kind of being removed. There are boxes that maybe need to be ticked for the sake of ticking boxes. But I always worry a little bit when a kind of reform comes out like this and you see, you know, as an employee, you see a lot of the trade unions not being super thrilled about it. And I think the 3F trade union, they actually had a very good point, which is that the agreement doesn't by default benefit the unemployed or companies necessarily. And one of the key things here is, okay, it will be up to the kommunes to decide what exact form they take in terms of helping people get back into employment. And there's 98 kommunes. So that's essentially going to mean that at some point, it's not all going to diverge day one, right? But at some point there are 98 different labor market policies effectively that unions, the unemployed companies will need to have some sort of insight into. I don't foresee that they'll all diverge wildly. I could imagine a lot of them will just keep the status quo as much as they can keep it, right? Because unless there's a real urge for reform at the kommune level, I could imagine, yeah. The "if it's not broke, don't fix it" attitude continuing forward, but it does seem to on one hand be saying, okay, we're going to remove a lot of complexity, but potentially we're going to add in a huge amount of complexity as well if there's so many different rules going on. 

Kalpita: 

Yeah, it's funny you say that because, one, it's hard to not think that it is, it sounds like an experiment, whichever municipality performs the best and comes up with the most creative idea, if they are bothered to. Then that we will try and replicate in other municipalities in the next, I don't know, two years, three years, whatever. At the same time, it is interesting that all the municipalities are taking in responsibility for this. There was one I met, somebody from my neighborhood who has now started working for the Copenhagen kommune, and she mentioned to me that now they are having a project in the job center where they want to help people who do not get any kind of monetary assistance. So no kontanthjælp, no dagpenge, no assistance of any kind and looking for a job, and especially women and men from Asian and some other countries, who come into Denmark and find themselves without a job, which I thought was very specific. And I tried to ask what kind of help they provide because it's, I mean, job centers can do many things. Job centers also have connections to different companies that need labor work, if not white collar jobs or anything other than labor jobs. And they use these connections to get these people. But I was also informed that they not only help these internationals to get a job, but they help them with their CVs and cover letters, and they help them with getting internships like praktik jobs or also løntilskud, which is basically, you know, you get a foot in the door and then the municipality pays for your maybe one, two, three months or whatever. And then you try and make a permanent position in that company as well. And I think that's something that the traditional job center did in Copenhagen, but this is back, I don't know, 10 years ago when they did such a thing. That's also the time when I sort of became part of the job center when I came into Denmark and had that experience of going for these meetings. And then they'll ask you if you know this, you know that, and how you're going to manage this. But the other thing was also they did expect you to understand basic Danish, if not have a complete full-on Danish conversation. So I think there are interesting creative ways for municipalities to approach this. I'm keen to see how this would work because, hey, the more people come in the job market and the more jobs are created, it's even better for the economy. We all pay our taxes and then we don't have to pay war tax, or we don't have to have so much of crisis preparedness in terms of economy. So it is great to know that they're putting in efforts.

Fionn: 

And I think not only in terms of the economy, but just think, I mean, this is often a kind of a red thread through some of our conversations on this podcast. It is about integrating in Denmark and how challenging that can be as internationals. I mean, that's not something- that's not a breaking news story that we've discovered, right? That's something that any international who has been here knows how challenging it can be. And I think a big part of successfully integrating in Denmark is finding a community, whether that is through your neighborhood, whether that is through a club or an association or, you know, some sort of society, of which there are many, which is great. But also, you know, actually, well, having employment, not only obvious things like gives you money, gives you experience and everything as well, but it gives you a network of people. And again shared experience, which at least for me has certainly helped, I guess you could say, open up my worldview of Denmark, if that's not too broad a sense. That it introduced me to a lot of, could be bars even, or places, or parts of Copenhagen I never would have gone to otherwise because they were outside of my own little bubble. And also just get to understand Denmark that little bit more, right? So I think that sounds really wonderful. Yeah, I'm still cautious about this reform, you could say in some ways, but I hope the outcome is that it helps people and helps them integrate into their communities and get employment obviously at the end.

Kalpita: 

Two interesting things. One that all those that I have met or spoken to with regards to the job center, especially those who work in the job center itself, they are very motivated individuals. They also come with the experience of not having a job and how difficult that can be. So I put full trust in those working in these job centers because they are motivated to do this. Maybe my experience is unique to me. The other interesting thing you mentioned about is integration and how jobs is one of the things that really hugely contributes to that. There was another friend I met last week, who mentioned that she learned to bike at the local Red Cross, which was interesting that Red Cross now gives biking lessons to internationals. There was a statistics I read as well that most internationals, including me, do not bike. They do not know how to bike. And one of the ways of not only integrating but also contributing to society in Denmark is taking a bike. So that is also a sort of a sidelined contribution towards internationals and empowering them in a cultural way. And I think that's quite a good thing. 

Fionn: 

Yeah, I mean, it really makes sense. Also, I don't know if you could say in terms of tapping into the Danish national mindset, but, you know, I feel like there's no better place to do that than on two wheels. I have to admit, and this is really embarrassing, and I can't believe I'm admitting this on a podcast, I only learned to ride a bike at 25.

Kalpita: 

Well, that's better than me not biking at all.

Fionn: 

Okay, okay. I'm still- so I bike every day. I pick my kids up in a ladcykel, a cargo bike, drop them off. And having one has been actually great in terms of getting to know my neighborhood better because what was, you know, a 20 minute walk suddenly becomes a four minute cycle. So things like the library and everything suddenly become so much closer and more accessible. But it is a cargo bike, so it has three wheels, which is kind of how I get away from maybe being a true Dane. But yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. And again, thinking about exactly as you mentioned that integrating and exploring, discovering your neighborhood absolutely makes sense. You know, not when you're here for the first time, but then when you think about it, that the Red Cross or whoever would be helping internationals learn to ride a bike. 

Kalpita: 

That's an interesting segue to our next topic of being friends with your neighbors. Are you friends with your neighbors? Do you know your neighbors? 

Fionn:

I definitely know my neighbors. I don't know if, and this sounds mean and I don't mean it in a mean way, I don't know if I would necessarily be friends with most of my neighbors. Not that I wouldn't be, just I don't think I necessarily am yet. And that wasn't always the case for me. I have to say, I am relatively introverted and so I went most of my life just not wanting to know my neighbors. Just, you know, get into the door as soon as possible. Don't look at anybody in the apartment hallway. And maybe what changed is when my partner and I bought a house a few years ago, we were moving in and suddenly I found out I was going to be part of a homeowners association and I was like, okay, getting ready to get a lawyer on the phone to figure out how, you know, I could avoid being into this, just because I'd heard horror stories probably mostly from the USA, to be honest. And then I was kind of introduced to, well, what is my local Danish homeowners association, which is basically very far from, you know, well, you can't have weeds on your lawn, but it's organizing parties throughout the year. It's making sure there's a Halloween party for the kids every Halloween to go trick-or-treating. There's a summer party, there's Fastelavn, all really nice stuff, which is great and it helps us be more of a community, I think. So that's like these kind of events would be where I know my neighbors from, primarily. But on the other hand, there's also been maybe more serious things, you could say. We recently had our homeowners association annual general meeting. and there, you know, we could figure out things like getting a defibrillator, like a yard starter in Danish for the street, because there is one somewhere nearby, but someone actually went out and timed it and figured out, well, how long would it take to get out and get back to our street. And I live quite close to about the airport and the highway that goes to the bridge to Sweden. And a few years ago, Sund & Bælt were proposing to massively widen the highway. And one of their proposals included 11 homes in our neighborhood being bought up and demolished and a highway put on top of them.

Kalpita:

Oh wow.

Fionn:

Yeah, which naturally wasn't the easiest night's sleep we got after seeing that. And our community together with other communities from around, we were able to engage with Sund & Bælt not only as individuals but actually as a community. We were able to get support from both local and national politicians.

Kalpita:

Holy moly.

Fionn:

And also the kind local media and everything. 

Kalpita:

Wow. Okay.

Fionn:

And yes, there were big, you know, Sund & Bælt meetings with everybody and everyone on Amager nearly, but they were also meeting specifically us in one of my neighbors back gardens to hear our specific concerns and actually to have questions and answers about, well, how they could adjust plans. And when the plans were finalized, they were very different from that. And nobody was going to lose their home. And so I've seen a lot of positives from that. And it's funny because if you'd asked me four or five years ago, like, hey, do you want to know your neighbors and be going to a bunch of neighborhood Halloween parties and meetings with the road authorities, I would have run a mile. [Laughs]

Kalpita:

[Laughs] I totally get where you're coming from and that's where I am right now. I have no interest in knowing my neighbors and I think that comes from living in the city and apartments because I can tell you for sure everybody here will make sure that when they open the door that there is nobody on the staircase, and their neighbor is not opening their door. And everyone does that around here. No one wants to meet each other. If by chance we cross each other's path, everyone will of course be polite and say hi. But we probably don't know each other's names and what apartment building we stay in, but we know we're neighbors. And it also makes sense that families with kids and people with kids are more involved in these kind of things in our area as well. There are Halloween parties, as you say. There's always every season or two seasons. We have a garden day, a "have" day where everybody comes in and contributes in cleaning the place, everyone's tidying up and all of that. And if you don't go, you have to pay 500 kroner. And I think that's common across Copenhagen. I don't know how it works in other parts of Denmark. And we are happy to pay 500 because we don't use the garden, we don't have kids and we are pretty much just in and out of the door. Of course and we keep our environment tidy and clean and look after. We're basically not a nuisance. And I think everyone thinks that they are not a nuisance so they don't feel the need to interact. I mean so much so that everyone's avoiding each other in the balconies as well when they go out to smoke or sit in the sun. So it's a serious business avoiding your neighbors in the city but but I do understand that it's very, very helpful to get to know each other, especially if you're in emergencies or whatever. I mean, there is nobody else who's going to come and help you other than your neighbors, right? And I see that camaraderie and that friendship in towns, which I really like because it creates a sense of community. Perhaps if I lived in a town, I would be more extroverted than avoiding my neighbors because I can in the city. It also contributes in this neighborly social life that you have. So you're not just secluded, especially if you have a house and not an apartment, I think. 

Fionn:

That contrast between living in a house and living in an apartment maybe is what sparked interest in being more of a good neighbor. Or not necessarily a good neighbor, more of an involved neighbor, let me put it that way. In me, because I don't know if I'm going to live here forever, but typically when I was living in an apartment, you know, you had a year-long lease maybe, and that's kind of the term I was thinking in. Whereas now I know there's neighbors on my street who've lived here for more than 50 years, so they're probably thinking long term and that they really want to maintain good social cohesion around.

Kalpita:

I was about to ask if you have any good helpful tips to being social with your neighbors.

Fionn:

Yes, well, I'm first and foremost a believer in the phrase good fences make good neighbors. 

Kalpita:

[Laughs]

Fionn: 

So, actually having a little bit of distance is quite good, right? Not necessarily sticking your nose into other people's business. And I think this actually points in a big way to where this whole story came from, really, which was a study that had been carried out by Epinion for the Danish Crime Prevention Council. And the kind of headline was that one in four Danes believed that neighborliness has worsened over the past five years. And they had some tips about, you know, how to actually be a better neighbor. And one of them was kind of things like resolve conflicts in a nicer way, you know, so if somebody's kid is jumping on your trampoline, don't just get the hose, but maybe talk to their parents. 

Kalpita:

[Laughs]

Fionn: 

But I think, you know, helpfulness, good communication, helping each other when people need help. But a lot of Danes felt that they expressed kind of a desire for social cohesion and community in their neighborhood, but about 38% of them didn't actually have a high degree of trust in their neighborhood. And I think maybe helpfulness and also a little bit of distance, at least for me, maybe those are the two things. So a few years ago there was a lot of flooding on Amager after a huge rainstorm, and a lot of the basements of the homes around us were flooded, including ours. And, you know, we had neighbors, we have like a local Facebook group just for that, and the neighbors who were okay were out offering their pumps and everything to get the water out of people's basement and stuff like that goes a really, really long way when you're in a tough spot and really made me appreciate having people like that around. But yeah, I think also just that level of, yes, keep an eye out, make sure if you see somebody, you know, poking around your neighbor's back bathroom window and maybe just send them a text and ask if they have a workman over or something like that. But otherwise there's no need to be in each other's bedrooms, so to speak, unless you want to be. But which is also a classic neighborly pastime.

Kalpita:

[Laughs] I mean, that would be a very good way of taking care of your neighbor.

Fionn:

Exactly. But no, recognizing that we're all different, there's, you know, on my street alone, there's a mix of international people, Danish people, people with small kids, like me. There's elderly people with grandkids, maybe, as well, and just understanding that yeah, it takes all sorts to make a village, so to speak, or a [laughs] suburban neighborhood. And yeah, just having respect for people's privacy and at the same time keeping an eye out, that's my go-to. So politeness and helpfulness and common sense.

Kalpita:

Yeah, so a fine balance. Unlike Solvej's character, the book she wrote On the Calculation of Volume, which is nominated for the Booker Prize, translated fiction.

Fionn:

And our third topic.

Kalpita:

Yeah [laughs]. The main character that she writes about called Tara Selter is in a time loop and her life is completely out of balance. Have you heard of the author, read the book?

Fionn:

I have to admit I had not actually heard of the author or the book before the announcement of the International Booker Prize shortlist. I heard a kind of soundbite-sized review from the Washington Post which said if Samuel Beckett had written Groundhog Day it might read something like On the Calculation of Volume and that makes me really want to read it. So I think I'll have to if my library has a copy that hasn't flown off the shelves for the next few weeks. But I wasn't familiar with the author before, of course, now reading a little bit into it, I think one of the interesting things, maybe if you're coming at this as an international like me, think, oh, she's just been, you know, shortlisted for this 2025 award. The book must be from 2025. And of course, it's not. So this is the International Booker Prize, which basically recognizes novels that are translated into English. So it can't be an English language novel originally. And it's actually, it's not the original novel in the original language that is nominated. It is the translated work. But of course, yeah, so it was then interesting to see, okay, this is actually a novel which has came out, I think maybe was it 2022? And was awarded and recognized more locally, or at least within Scandinavia, very heavily then. And now that the translated version, translated by Barbara Haveland, who's a Scottish translator but living in Copenhagen, now it's kind of making more international waves, you could say. 

Kalpita:

Yeah. A short brief of hers is she is from South Jutland and her work has been celebrated for many, many years. And she's been, I think she's been writing since 1986, if I remember correctly. And she was awarded the Nordic Society, I think. Sorry, yeah, Nordic Council Literature Prize for this book. And now she's been shortlisted as well. The first version came out in 2022. And there's another volume. This is volume one, and there's volume two, which came out in 2024, I think.

Fionn:

As I said, I haven't read it, but I understand it's part of a planned seven-volume story. So sounds like you're really making a commitment [laughs] once you get into it.

Kalpita:

[Laughs] Yeah, I thought I read it as six volumes, and I happen to read volume two. If you want to read volume one, there is a long waits time for it, of course.

Fionn:

I can imagine.

Kalpita:

Volume 2 was easily available, so I just jumped on it. It's an interesting book if you like time loops and if you're into that kind of fantastical journeys of characters. It's a first-person solely based on Tara and her experiences and how she is understanding this time loop and what she does in this time loop, knowing that she is in a time loop, although she does not know how she got into it unless that is covered in the first one. But in the second one, she keeps reminding herself that she doesn't know how this started and how long it's going to be and she tries to draw inspiration and motivation through her day. It is this desperate urge that she has to explore time itself and I think that's where Solvej is coming from. At times it becomes a bit mundane, it becomes a bit adventurous, it becomes a travelogue in some sense as well. And this exploration of time that Solvej has done quite beautifully, I think, is intriguing in so many ways. It leaves you with questions and food for thought. And I suppose that's also what Booker Prize looks into for a book. Last year I was looking into the National Book Award and I read some of the books that were nominated and shortlisted for that and Solvej's was one book as well that I came across. I just found out that she was shortlisted for the Booker Prize, which I find very interesting. There have been other Scandinavian authors who've made it to the Booker Prize as well and I quite enjoy the progression and acceptance of Scandinavian literature. I think the authors here are a bit edgy in the sense of how we are more inspired by the slow life and the egalitarian society that we've built and most authors that get picked up are also based on this background, so to speak. If you haven't, you should try and see if the book is for you, actually. Time loops and time warps is not something for me, but I was quite interested in Solvej's take on Tara's situation.

Fionn:

I have to admit, it really sounds like something for me. One of my favorite books that I read last year was recommended to me by a friend and it was called This Is How You Lose the Time War. And it's a lot less fantastical in some ways than you would think from that. It's essentially a love story, but the premise of moving back and forth in time as well as space and yeah, enemies becoming lovers was incredibly interesting. So I think I'm going to have to get myself a copy, get my greasy hands on a copy of On the Calculation of Volume and yeah, dive into this. But I think it's an enormous achievement. It really, really is both for the author and the translator. And the prize recognizes that. So it's 50,000 British pounds, which is split between the two of them. And this year it was the highest number ever since the prize was launched in its current format of submissions. There was over 154 books submitted by publishers for this. So I think the fact that to be on the long list was already a huge achievement. But to be on the short list is absolutely an enormous thing for a Danish author or any author. Whether you're a Dane or an international, you can be very, very proud of Solvej Balle and the experience that she's giving.

Kalpita:

Yeah, I would also say that if you do read in Danish and fancy doing that, I'm not sure if many internationals do that, but and I say that very, very aware that I do not read in Danish, but I am reading another translated book and I can tell that a translation can be very tricky to read. If you know the original language you can understand that the book is how the book would have been read in the original language. So you do feel that difference when you're reading even Solvej's book of the Danishness in what the text could have been. But yeah, translated fiction is incredible and I think there are such amazing stories that come out from different parts of the world that are not necessarily in English but also have this cultural bend to it which I enjoy most.

Fionn:

Absolutely and I think that as internationals, that speaks very much to the spirit of, well, even what we're trying to do here.

Kalpita:

Yeah, and I think in conclusion, Fionn, you're going to tell us about our new referral campaign.

Fionn:

Absolutely. This is actually the third referral campaign that Last Week in Denmark has run. So we're going to spend a moment of your time and tell you about it. It's going to be a fun, friendly competition just to help grow the Last Week in Denmark Cinematic Universe. No, just to grow Last Week in Denmark. We already reach over 30,000 internationals across the country every single week, but there's still many, many more who probably haven't even heard of us and who could, we feel, hopefully benefit from the news, the tips, the clarity on maybe more Danish things that we can deliver. From the 13th of April to May 10th we're asking all of our readers, all of our listeners to help spread the word. And of course, we're not asking you to do that without any sort of prizes attached. So there are two ways you can win something. If you refer just one person, you are in for a lottery draw for 2000 Danish kroner. And if you are one of our top 10 referers, if you're between fifth to tenth place, you'll get a prize from our wonderful merch store. That could be tote bags, t-shirts, mugs, things like that. and if you're from 4th to 1st, there's actually a monetary prize, so all the way up to 4,000 kroner for 1st place. And there's two ways that you can refer people. One is to, if you're reading the newsletter, press the blue button, which is featured in the newsletter, to sign up and you'll get a personal referral link. Or you can actually go to our leaderboard page, which is on our Substack, and get a link specifically there as well. So you'll find a unique link that you can share, and if somebody uses that to sign up, that will count as a referral. So anybody signing up through that will earn you one point. There are also a couple of different ways to earn some bonus points. Without spending a lot of time on those, I will just direct you to our newsletter where you can find out the four or five different ways that you can find some ways of getting bonus points. This isn't just a campaign. It obviously is to a degree where we do want it to grow, but it's really a community effort. I think that's maybe what we have spent a lot of this podcast today talking about. We want to make sure that there's nobody in Denmark who needs to figure it out all by themselves.

Kalpita:

Absolutely. I mean, community is everything, not just good neighbors, you know, but we also have the newsletter, not just in English, but different languages as well, so you can benefit from that, so you don't need to necessarily know the language or read the news in English. Having said that, thank you very much, Fionn, and I hope you overcome your spring flu very soon.

Fionn:

[Laughs] You and me both, and I'm sure my family and my colleagues and anybody sitting beside me on the Metro and hearing an occasional sniff or a cough and being very annoyed by it is on that train as well. So thank you all so much for listening. It's been an absolute pleasure.

Kalpita:

Thank you, Fionn. Bye, everyone.

Fionn:

Bye-bye.