How to look after yourself as a super-busy leader, with Rania Robinson

Rania Robinson is CEO of Quiet Storm Advertising, co-founder of Create not Hate and a former president of WACL. She's also a naturally early riser, using her body-clock attuned 5am starts as valuable me-time to support her mental wellness. Rania realises 5am isn't a time for everyone, and in this easygoing chat Rania shares her tips for sustaining self-support, as well as the importance of sharing values in business and relationships - she runs Quiet Storm with her husband, Trevor Robinson OBE.

Rania is a great ambassador for the sandwich generation (kids, parents, menopause...) as well as an empathetic boss, and a huge believer in the critical importance of diversity in adland.

Key takeaways:

• Respecting your differences, as well as your shared values, is vital for genuine success
• Looking after yourself and others is an active practice
• Bosses need to realise that supporting their staff goes beyond perks - it's about not burning out your team, and respecting their work/life boundaries

Resources
NABS' grief support 

Quiet Storm https://quietstorm.co.uk/

Create Not Hate http://createnothate.org/

WACL https://wacl.info/

Diversity in Focus https://nabs.org.uk/diversity-in-focus/

All In Census https://advertisingallin.co.uk/

NABS Advice Line https://nabs.org.uk/how-we-can-help/advice-line/

Transcript

Welcome to the NABS podcast. NABS is the support organization for those working in advertising, marketing and media. I'm your host Louise Scodie. Each week I'll be chatting with someone from our industry to find out how they support themselves and those around them through challenging times, as well as the day to day. And it's all to help you support your own mental wellness. I can't wait to start chatting.  

This week, our guest is Rania Robinson. Rania Robinson is CEO and partner at Quiet Storm advertising. She is also coming to the end of her tenure as president of WACL, the women's advocacy group dedicated to accelerating gender equality in AD.  

Rania is also director of Create not Hate, a not for profit organisation designed to help young people who are underrepresented in adland to unlock their potential. Welcome, Rania, it's brilliant to have you on the NABS podcast. How are you?  

Rania Robinson  00:55  

I'm great. Louise, thank you. Thanks for having me.  

Louise Scodie - NABS  01:00  

Are you feeling released with a with lots of spare time around you now that you're not the president of WACL? 

Rania Robinson  01:09  

I'm not gonna lie, that was the most incredible year, like particularly, given it was the 100th, it was such a amazing year to be president. It's such a privilege to be asked and it, you know, just so many things to be proud of. But I have to say, I am a little bit relieved to have some time back so I can focus on my business, which also needs me desperately. So, yeah. 

Louise Scodie - NABS  01:34  

So for anyone who doesn't know WACL, how would you summarise WACL, and why does our industry need WACL, which it very much does?  

Rania Robinson  01:45  

WACL stands for women in advertising communication leadership. It's an organisation made up of about 350 female leaders across the industry, advertising, communication industry, across the full ecosystem that you know that you can imagine all the organisations that are shaping the industry, that make up our industry.  

Our purpose is to accelerate gender equality in in the industry. It's we are still very much when you look at the data around women in leadership roles, we've made a, you know, huge progress. When we were an organisation that's 100 years old, it was actually founded at a time where not all women could vote. So when you think about it from that perspective, it's quite mad to think that, really, it's only 100 years ago, which is also quite bad to think about.  

But you know, you think 100 years on, we're still not equally represented in the top jobs in the industry when we say that's why we're talking about the CEO role, not because everybody woman wants to be a CEO, because they don't. It's a tough job. Not everybody wants it, and that's absolutely fine. But what we find is that when you have women in leadership roles, it's good for the whole business.  

So what we want is women in the key decision making roles. We want them in every layer of leadership where decisions are being made, because everybody benefits, not just women, everybody benefits, and so does the business.  

We know that, you know, businesses that have got better representation outperform businesses that don't. So, so yeah, so that that's the kind of crux of it. We've got three pillars, if you like, we inspire, we support and we campaign for gender equality. So as a network, we support each other as female leaders who which can be lonely, can be quite isolating.  

So having a network of other women who are going through similar things, who got similar challenges, so there's a really strong internal network, support network, then we also go out there and inspire the next generation of female leaders and help them, you know, get into those positions and feel empowered to get into those positions, and then obviously, campaign for better kind of policies and better legislation, if you like, in some cases, that will help keep women in positions in the workforce, and also to help them get into these sort of senior positions as well.  

Louise Scodie - NABS  04:04  

Well, you had two really big jobs there. So how did that impact on your mental wellness, both in a negative and a positive way?  

Rania Robinson  04:14  

I mean, in many ways, it's been huge, like a huge year of growth for me, because, you know, when you're a CEO of business, you're kind of in a bit of a bubble. In a way, you've got your leadership team and you've got, obviously, you know, clients that challenge you and new problems that challenge you. But in truth, you're sort of in a little bit of a bubble, but to be surrounded by some of the smartest, most brilliant, most incredible women in the industry.  

Like I was being part of WACL, it was almost like a kind of two years, because I did a sort of vice-presidency year before the presidency year. It's like two years of CPD, which is brilliant. So, you know, there's, there's a huge amount of personal development enrichment.  

It is a hugely supportive group of women. We're there to support each other through, you know, challenges as well as the good stuff. So it's massively enriching. But at the same time, of course, there's a huge amount of pressure when you feel like you're heading up an organisation full of female leaders, so that it's very intimidating, to be honest with you, because you're surrounded by such brilliant women, there's a massive weight of responsibility as well when you're doing something so important that's so visible.  

So yeah, I can't lie that didn't that, that didn't add a huge amount of pressure to what is already quite a challenging role, you know, being chief executive of a business. So there were definitely times where I had to really think about my, you know, my mental health.  

And also, I lost my mum during that year as well. So there was a lot of kind of other stuff going on, and she'd been sick for a long time. So I think I've what it taught me was a lot of important techniques, tools to kind of keep a balance and stay sane, you know, and kind of stay able to cope with the pressures of life, of business, of all the extra stuff that you want to do if you're, you know, somebody like me who does need new challenges and needs to be stimulated, and so, yeah, you've got to find those ways to balance, balance the two things.  

Louise Scodie - NABS  06:26  

Firstly, I am really sorry to hear that you lost your mum, and I hope that you're getting the support and the space that you need to process that. And I know having lost my own dad nearly three years ago, now it's about playing the long game, isn't it, and just being as kind to yourself as you can. You alluded to some tips and tricks there, and I'm wondering whether any of those tips and tricks were specifically to help you manage your grief.  

Rania Robinson  06:52  

Yeah they're things I've picked up over the years, if I'm honest, and I've sort of built on them over time, and I've, sort of, each time I go through sort of particularly challenging periods, which you do if you're pushing yourself, you know, professionally or personally, and they've sort of, so yoga has been a part of my life for many, many years, since probably my early 30s. So that's something I've always done.  

I've always needed exercise of some shape or form to kind of get that, get that space in my head. And kind of, in more recent years, I've introduced daily walks, and then I've built in kind of journaling, and I've done meditation. So I've layered and layered and layered honestly, as things have got more and more challenging.  

And I think when you when you get to a certain level or a certain age, a life stage, it's probably more a life stage than necessarily an age, because I think people come to it different points, like, you know, you've got, I've got teenagers, and that comes with a whole load of challenges, aging parent, you know, in a sort of, you know, kind of demanding role, menopausal there's like, layers and layers and layers of things that have come in have added complexity and challenges to, you know, what was already quite, was already quite a challenging career path, if you like.  

So with that, I've added layers and layers of mental health management tools. So, yes, so I've started off with yoga, and then, you know, I've just layered it on. There's nothing in there that's going to be surprising to anyone, because they're all tried and tested and very much talked about techniques, but even things like gratitude diaries and, you know, things like that, I just, you know, I'm I've got a massive fascination in psychology, behavioural economics, like human behaviour.  

I think you do when you work in marketing, and you're obviously trying to engage consumers, and like, we have to understand human psychology and we need to understand behaviour and all that sort of stuff.  

So I, because of my understanding of all those things, I really kind of apply a lot of that to, you know, to how I kind of treat myself, if you like, because I kind of really am very committed to sort of understanding my psychology, and understanding triggers and barriers and behavioural kind of things that impact behaviour, I guess, and the things that affect sort of human psychology.  

So, yeah, so I kind of love all that stuff, so I naturally am curious about those things. So seek out techniques and tools and methods based on real understanding of human behaviour and psychology, I guess.  

Louise Scodie - NABS  09:28  

I mean, it's one thing to say, well, everybody knows this stuff's out there, but it's quite another to have a job, to have been president of WACL, to have elderly parents, to have the menopause that you're going through, to have teenage kids, to have a business, business that you're running with your husband, and then also to have find time, not just to remember that all of these tips and tricks are out there, but actually to implement them.  

So I think anyone listening is going to think, wow, how does she find the time to do that? That's certainly my question. How are you finding the time to say, right, I've got to do my ten minutes of journaling, or whatever it is, otherwise, I know that I'm going to spontaneously combust today. And connected to that, is this what mental wellness looks like to you? Is it an active practice, or is it also a certain state of mind that you know you want to achieve?  

Rania Robinson  10:13  

I do believe it is an active practice, because even delivering a certain state of mind as an active practice, you don't get there just like, by chance, you know that state of mind comes through cultivation and through practice, like anything does, like yoga practice or, you know, breathe.  

I don't think you don't get to a leadership position, in all honesty, without discipline and without an understanding that things, you have to invest in things, and you have to invest time and effort and focus and determination and consistency, and so they are all just things that that I apply to everything I do, in all honesty, because I do think everything comes with practice for it to become habitual and become ingrained and all that sort of stuff.  

I think it does help that I'm just naturally an early riser. In all honesty, I just get up early. And I think if you're someone who struggles to get up early, it's maybe a challenge, but, but maybe you're more of an evening person, you can find that time in the evening, I don't know.  

But for me, I'm just someone who gets up at five in the morning, you know, automatically. And so I do have, like, those three or four hours, that's me time, if I'm honest. Because nobody else I know is up at five in the morning. My kids are sleeping, my husband's sleeping, nobody's working. So really, between five and nine, sometimes 830 if I've got an early meeting, they're kind of that's my time.  

So I do all of it in that time, and I do understand that that's not for everybody, and not everybody gets up at that time, but I'm usually, I'm probably sleeping by 9pm 930, so I lose a lot of my evening unless I've got an event or something like that.  

So I do think, I do think, I think there's some sort of evidence, scientific evidence, around these cycles that people have, isn't it? They are the morning people or their evening people. I know people all do yoga in the evening and do them do all their stuff in the evening and that. So I think figuring out what's your optimum time period for yourself, mine's in the morning, so I get it all done in that time. I've got a very fixed routine now it becomes almost like autopilot, really. Yeah, so I think that helps being an early riser.  

Louise Scodie - NABS  12:29  

So what happens when you have an event? Because, I mean, pre-pandemic, there was an event every night in our industry, right, and now they're here and there, but they're still important, especially when you're at your stage of your career. So if you've got an event and you have to go then the next day, do you struggle to get up? Do you just miss out all of the wellbeing stuff altogether?  

Rania Robinson  12:51  

It’s very annoying. Doesn't matter what time I go to bed, I still get up at five in the morning. Oh, wow, yeah, it's a body clock thing, so I just have less sleep. So, but, you know, yeah, I mean, that's annoying actually, because even at the weekends, I'm up at five, 530 like, it's a body clock thing, it's really and I think the menopause has sort of affected it as well. I know, like, I know that's quite a common symptom. 

 I've always been an early riser, to be honest. You it's kind of just my makeup, but I think this sort of these ridiculous early hour starts of our I do believe they are connected to the hormonal changes as well. Even people I know who aren't early morning risers suddenly are getting up really early with hormonal stuff.  

So, no, it doesn't it's not difficult for me, because I'm just up and you think, well, what am I going to do sit there and just twiddle my thumbs? So in a way, it's quite I'm quite lucky. I say lucky. It can be annoying when you when you've had, particularly with WACL, I've had some weeks where you got three or four events in a week, because you're trying to do your personal stuff as well. You're trying to see friends as well as doing all the kind of work related stuff.  

So yeah, it just means that I just don't get much sleep during that time period. But, but then I'll kind of try and make it up at the weekends, you know, and I'll kind of have maybe a quiet weekend or something, but, but, yeah, I am somebody who can function, even though I do love my sleep.  

And actually, you know, I get up early, but I do go to bed early, so I get my eight hours. It's not like I don't get enough sleep, but if I had five or six, I can function. I'm not somebody who can't function on fewer hours. I just try not to let that happen too long, because you start to unravel a little bit, because you kind of get things well, in a way, if you're putting the good stuff in, it enables you to cope through those periods. But I just don't think anything like that is sustainable for too long. It's just not healthy. So I try and manage it.  

Louise Scodie - NABS  14:48  

It's about the active practice, isn't it? Making sure you're balancing out what you're doing. Another aspect of your life that I think probably takes quite a lot of managing from an emotional health perspective, is. The fact that you run Quiet Storm together with your husband. Trevor OBE. 

You are adland’s power couple. So what's it like working and living together, especially having been through lockdown and the pandemic? You wrote a really great piece in the The Drum back in January 21, about how the boundaries were super blurred when you were working from home together. So how have you managed it through the past few years? How and how are you managing it now? And how has that impacted on your kind of collective mental wellness as a couple? 

Rania Robinson  15:33  

We’ve been through so much as a couple, you know, as business partners. You know, because if you run a business, you have the best of times and the worst of times enormously when you're a small, independent like we are. And we've been through everything you can imagine, God, you know, couple of recessions, you know, economic crisis, COVID, like, tons and tons of things.  

And we've been through loads of personal things. He's lost his mum. I've lost my mum, you know, with co-parenting teenagers.  

And I think what I've honestly I think what we Trevor and I have, which is so foundational, and that's so sort of unifying as a couple, is we've got such strong, strong values that are shared values, that we are so aligned when it comes to our values, the way we see the world and the way we see the things we care about, things that are important to us. That's, I think, has been probably the grounding of our relationship. 

 Because actually, as individuals, we go about things very differently, you know, I'm, you know, I'm a morning person who's a night person. You know, he's, I could literally be 24/7, working. He needs his space. You know, we just operate very, very differently, which can create a lot of tension.  

And I think in the early stages of our relationship, it did, because I think, you know, yeah, you've got to sort of learn to respect each other's differences and each other's boundaries, and see the value of each other's approach. And I think, I think that's where, because we've got these shared values, but we also really respect what each other brings.  

And actually, in some ways, I really admire his ability to compartmentalize and his ability to take time out, and he has to, he's a creative like, I think when you're a creative, you if you've got to leave room for inspiration, you've got to leave room for ideas.  

And I think when you cram too much that, that you know, affects your ability to kind of think differently and come up with fresh ideas. You know, I I've definitely got a kind of really strong creative appreciation, but really strong. But I'm, you know, I'm more a kind of problem solver, get shit done, you know, I'm allowed to swear sorry, swear away, get stuff done.  

So I can just, I'm just bit more of a machine, probably, if I'm honest. So, you know, and I can, although I'm starting to realise, actually, that that can definitely impact decision-making. And I'm what I'm trying to take as inspiration from his approach, which is actually leaving room for stuff to come in.  

And because I think sometimes I can almost push myself too hard, and actually, you don't give space for inspiration. And so, so, so I'm learning that from him and really respecting that kind of and taking inspiration from his way of doing things. And I think he would say the same about me and the fact that I'm kind of all over everything, and kind of, you know, just make stuff happen. And so I think that's what we've learned. I think, where it used to be frustration and tension and create a lot of like animosity, it's now created, like, a really strong sense of mutual respect, where we've sort of started to respect each other's contribution and differences and boundaries.  

And I think, you know, yeah, I think that's it, but, but the heart of it is that we've got such strong values, like the cons, you know, we're both trying to we might have different ways of going about it, but we're coming to edit with the same end in mind, and that is very unifying. And I think, quite honestly, as a couple, if you can work together for 11 12, years, go through all the personal challenges that we've gone through, having young kids, then having like, I think, I think we're pretty solid. I think if that doesn't break you, it kind of really makes you, doesn't it?  

Louise Scodie - NABS  19:22  

Yeah, especially having young kids and not getting much sleep, which is when all of the main arguments happen.  

Rania Robinson  19:27  

And then you go through a similar sort of thing when they become teenagers as well. Because you've got a whole another set of problems around, you know, more complex sort of young adults, you know.  

There's a whole load of other stuff to have, sorts, you know, different perspectives on and we've had quite different upbringings, and I think that's where you start to see differences as well parenting approaches and stuff like that.  

But at the heart of even our parenting, we've got these very, very strong shared values, even in our parenting and our you know, so that, that, I think, is what and we talk about that in business as well.  

It's like, I think strong businesses have got people in those businesses have got shared values. It doesn't have to be about, we talk about culture a lot, don't we, and people that are good cultural fit and all that sort of stuff. But actually, I think what's more important is you've got people with shared values, and that creates… 

Louise Scodie - NABS  20:15  

I'm really interested in the shared values, and at which point you worked out that you had them, and how you've brought those values into the business.  

Rania Robinson  20:24  

I mean, to be honest with you, it's been very instinctive for both of us. And the reason we never really thought about it, if I'm really honest, we were operating for years and years and years without even really thinking about our values or our what we stood for as a business, or we just, we were just sort of doing stuff.  

We brought in a consultant, actually an independent consultant, to come in and help us figure out, you know, what sort of, you know, just doing a bit of brand work, if you like, on the agency. It's one of those things you do it for your clients, but you never really think about doing it for yourself. And I think you have to bring an external person in, because you never really see yourself the way other people see you.  

And what was really interesting is that they come in, and they'd interviewed all our staff, and they talked to some of our clients, and what came through was these very, very strong and very, very consistent values. And that's when we realised, oh gosh, we've got these really and it's coming, it often comes from the top, doesn't it comes from, even if it's unspoken and it we'd never voiced it. We'd never expressed it. We've never gone into a meeting and gone these are our values, and they were all things that everybody repeated.  

And I think for me, that really just shows and that's come from Trev and I as the leaders of the business. So I think that's when I really thought about it like intellectually. I mean, of course, you know you assume that when you marry somebody, you'd hope that you got shared values, wouldn't you, but I think hearing it like expressed like that, it was just that's the evidence right there that this is just such an integral part of who we are as a business. And it's absolutely coming from Trevor and I as the leaders of the business. As an owner-run business, not anymore, an employee-owned business now, but at the time, back then, as an owner run business, it was clear that those values were coming from him and I so.  

Louise Scodie - NABS  22:16  

What were some of those values that came out in the exercise? What were people saying?  

Rania Robinson  22:19  

I mean, the big one, obviously, big one was inclusive. Gosh, what were they now, like, integrity, kind of an entrepreneurialism, which I get, I guess you know that you'd expect that from sort of owner run, God, like, kind of sort of challenging status quo.  

Just, just lots of really quirkiness, individuality, just all things that, you know, yeah, that we just both shared kind of egalitarianism as well that came through, like people felt a real sense of empowerment and autonomy and personal ownership. 

Louise Scodie - NABS  23:06  

The pieces that you and Trevor have written in the various trade press over the past few years, that sense of justice and equity and wanting everyone to be kind of respected and treated equally and valued for themselves comes to you very strongly as something that drives you both.  

Rania Robinson  23:24  

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's why big business decisions haven't been difficult, because we've been so aligned, like when we talked about, you know, you know, going to market, maybe would we sell? Who would we sell to? What kind of business structure, you know, ownership structure would we feel comfortable with? Like we just, there was no debate. We were just in the same place with it, which is why we went for the employee ownership because, you know, we did talk to potential buyers.  

We looked at, you know, we've been approached over the years by lots of people, and we both just felt really uncomfortable with the idea of a traditional sale, if you like, or, you know, taking private equity, you know, investment and things like that. So that was really easy as well, because we're like, yeah, I feel like that all I do, too.  

And so things like that have been really easy. What is challenging is when you're going through challenging business you know, through a challenging business climate, which we're all going through at the moment, and I think that can be tough. But I think as we've been through that a few times as well, like, over the years, like, we've had so many like, really, since 2008 financial crisis, business has been, it's been various things, Brexit, general elections.  

Louise Scodie - NABS  24:45  

Listen, it feels like it's just one thing after the it has  been relentless, hasn't it?  

Rania Robinson  24:49  

So, so we've kind of  got used to that as well. That there’s always another thing, and we've learned how to ride those out as well. So, yeah, so I think, I think that's, that's a good observation in terms of, I mean, if you look at all the things that I've chosen to do in my career, and all the things that that Trev has chosen to do before we you know, we work together, and the things we've done together, it's all it's all been around equitable equity.  

It has been like our business model, the work we do with Create not Hate, the stuff I've done with WACL, the stuff that Trev has done with Operation Black Vote and various other things long before I'd even started working with him. So we share that sense of equity, what, you know, treating people with respect and fairness.  

Louise Scodie - NABS  25:35  

I think that's a really good way of expressing it, and that's come out beautifully in Create not Hate. Can you talk to us a bit about what that's doing at the moment, and kind of where it's going, and how that's embodying your values? 

Rania Robinson  25:47  

Yeah. I mean, we, obviously, we're a creative agency. We really believe in the power of creativity, and we talk about transform, like creativity, ability to transform businesses, lives and society. So we've got our commercial business, which is Quiet Storm, and we use creativity as a tool to help deliver business step change for our clients and transform businesses. And we're really proud of that.  

You know, it's commercial. We sell stuff, and we're really proud of that, but we also think we've got a big responsibility to do positive things with that. It's a powerful what we do is really powerful. We influence behaviour, attitudes. You know, we shape society. There's so much our work is so visible. It's out there, affecting people, day, every day.  

So we want to do stuff that's having a positive impact as well. And we're also recognising that you need fresh perspectives and you need creativity. Is about original thinking. It's about innovation. It's about, you know, new ideas, and that comes from people who think differently. 

So, you know, there's two prongs to Create not Hate. There's that kind of societal doing the right thing, you know, creating pathways, creating opportunities, creating a more equitable world by bringing underrepresented people, people that have been marginalised in some way, into the industry.  

But there's also a really selfish reason for it as well, which is we know we're going to get to better ideas and better problem so problem solving for our clients, with people who think differently, who can bring a whole different perspective to our industry that also are probably more connected to the people we're talking to than a lot of the industry is actually so, so it's that got that two-fold component to it.  

So we've done stuff that's around, like tackling social issues like gun and knife crime, mental health, racism, you know, police brutality, all that kind of stuff. But then we've also worked with these young people to work with brands, to bring fresh perspectives to kind of quite sort of established brands that maybe need to connect better with Gen Z, or to connect better with kind of a different kind of generation or different audience.  

So we've done stuff with John Lewis, and we've done stuff with other brands as well, which I can't talk about all of them, but so yeah, so that's the sort of two pronged side of it.  

It has been a bit of a challenge recently because of budget priorities and the economy and but this is where I think sometimes we get really frustrated, because it's where you realise that people are kind of missing the point a bit with the whole thing is that they're sort of disconnecting it from commercial business imperative.  

Because when you're seeing budgets like that get deprioritised, you're going, you realise that actually, they're not really recognising the value of Create not Hate, and having, you know, diverse talent and things like that. So that that can be frustrating, I'm not going to lie.  

We've experienced some challenges with budgets around supporting hate programmes. But basically the premise of it is that you set a brief to young talents, and they basically come up with creative solutions to those briefs. And they can be commercial briefs, or they can be, you know, behavioural change, social issue related briefs, and, yeah, and then that's the kind of the principles of it. They get an introduction to the industry. In some cases, the businesses can bring talent into their organisations off the back of it, or we can develop campaigns, or we can develop product innovation ideas. Or, you know, whatever it is that, whatever the problem it is that that business is trying to solve, and then these young people getting get an experience of the industry, and the industry gets exposure to these, this young talent. And that's kind of how it works.  

Louise Scodie - NABS  29:34  

What  stage are they out of their educational careers?  

Rania Robinson  29:37  

They're young people taking part most of the time. They are kind of at that kind of out or, well, some of them are kind of straight out of school, or straight out of college, is kind of tends to be sort of between 18 and 24 but we've had some, some, you know, young people as 15 16 where there's a longer kind of pathway into the industry.  

But what we're trying to do is introduce people to the industry, because also, you know, we've got a talent shortage going on. There's not like, there isn't that same desire to get into the industry that there once was, you know, in the 80s, 90s, you know, the industry is kind of, I think it's quite misunderstood by a lot of young people. I think they just think ads are annoying.  

You know, for most of them, the exposure to ads is kind of irritating, kind of being followed around the internet by digital display ads that are kind of just, you know, just hammering you. And I think, I think this has created this kind of misconception of our industry, actually. A 

I think when we find we've had quite a lot of cynicism with some of the young people, when we first engage them, they're like, oh, they don't see advertising as a aspirational profession for them, and once they start getting into what they understand what really it is, it's about ideas, and it's about bringing those ideas to life, it completely changes their perspective on it. So I think we've got a bit of a job to do to entice young talent into the industry, actually.  

So yeah, I don't think we can take for granted that everyone's desperately trying to get trying to get into the industry. And for a lot of these young people, they don't even know how to or even if it's an industry for them, let alone whether they want to or not. So yeah, I mean, I think, you know, we're not the only industry struggling with talent shortages, but I think we are competing for talent these days.  

Louise Scodie - NABS  31:18  

We know from research that we did called Diversity in Focus, which we conducted in 2019, as well as the results in the All In census, we know that the industry can be a challenging place for people from underrepresented groups, and that recruitment is one issue, and also the retention is another, and women, yes, well, indeed, and women as well, as you know, still facing many challenges trying to survive and thrive in the industry.  

So having been at the forefront of advocacy work for gender parity in your work with WACL, and then also doing all this really great work with Create not Hate, what can you see as the work people in our industry need to be doing to be useful allies to women and people from underrepresented groups, so that they can come to the industry, stay in it, and be supported? I would say for NABS, diversity is a wellness issue as well as anything else, and that's a really important thing for us to consider. That's why we're so passionate about it.  

Rania Robinson  32:24  

Yeah. I mean, imagine every pressure that we're all under in this industry then compounded for underrepresented groups, whether that's women or people of colour or, you know, other, you know, other underrepresented or marginalised groups. So that can, yeah?  

I mean, it's a tough business anyway, isn't it, let alone if you're trying to navigate a sense of, you know, not belonging, or otherness, or, you know, or you can't be your true self for whatever reason.  

So I think there's lots of really brilliant organisations out there now, and there are loads of great tools. IPA have done a ton of stuff. WACL have done a kind of playbook around how we can address a lot of the barriers that women face and the things that we life stages that all are just all the things that kind of impact a woman's ability to progress in the workplace.  

And then, like I said, there's lots and lots of organisations that have done stuff more in the, I guess, ethnic diversity space, or, you know, other areas you know, of kind of minority groups. So there's lots and lots of resources out there. That's the thing, I would say, is seek them out, talk to people who know and understand these audiences.  

And there's some really, really good, solid stuff out there that can give you really clear action plans, evidence-based insights, and you've got to, like, if you're, if you're serious about it as an organisation, it's got to be at the heart of your business plan, your business strategy.  

It's got to be so I think that's what I would say, is that you can't, sort of do it by halves. You can't just bring in your quotas, and think, right, that's it, job done. Or you can't just stick a few people in your ads that kind of you know that they're almost the easy bits.  

The hard bit is doing, creating an environment, creating a culture where these people can thrive and can succeed, and aren't going to just succeed at their own personal, additional mental health costs we've all got, you know, it's tough for everybody, let alone, you know, like I said, anyone who's got additional barriers that they're dealing with so, so, yeah, I think I would just say, like I said, you know, get make sure it's kind of deeply ingrained within your business practices and your business policies, and you've got people who really understand and know, or you're tapping into resources that really understand and know, because there's plenty out there.  

Actually, there's so many brilliant organisations like I said, and there's almost no excuse now to not there was a time before where people were like, OK, I kind of want to do it, but I don't know what to do and I don't know where to go and I don't have the resources or the tools, or that's definitely not the case anymore.  

Louise Scodie - NABS  35:06  

The information  is definitely out there, isn't it? It's about actioning it. How does the adland community lift you up?  

Rania Robinson  35:18  

I mean, I think, I mean, I think we're a really resilient bunch of people, aren't we? My God, you know, it's like, honestly, like, it amazes me, really, like, how our ability to just bounce back and just keep going, like, you know, a lot of people within my WACL all sort of network.  

But also beyond that, that you just have got an unbelievable amount of resilience, and I'm really sort of inspired by that. I think we've also got such a strong, like so many platforms, where they're strong networking kind of opportunities aren't there, and there's lots of even one of the things that really, I think, for me, was a moment of kind of realisation of, we obviously compete against each other, you know, a hugely competitive bunch as well. You know, we were actively competitive.  

But when push comes to shove, I see it in work, and I saw it during COVID with kind of town hall groups that were happening through the intermediaries and things like that, how willing business leaders were to share learnings and share ideas and try and support each other through what was clearly a really difficult time for a lot of leaders. 

And we see it, you know, I see it all the time in WACL, you've got executive teams, you've got women working together who, in everyday life are competing against each other, that, you know, their businesses are up against each other, but they're kind of sitting in a room shoulder to shoulder trying to make change in the industry. And I think that is great, it's brilliant.  

It's quite an inspiring bunch of people, isn't it? I don't know if many other industries have got that same level of camaraderie as a collective. I don't know. You know, maybe it does happen in other industries. I just, I don't know, but it does for me, it is, it's pretty special.  

Louise Scodie - NABS  37:08  

There's definitely something about people in our industry who like to get together and to form networks and friendships and to help each other out. And we could see that at NABS, obviously, we had to stop our fundraising events during the pandemic, and then when we started to do those real life events, people were delighted.  

And we did Ride Adland, our cycling event, people were hugging each other saying, oh, the best thing about stage is seeing my industry mates, there's a real appetite to be connected to people and to be part of a community. And as for the resilience thing. Well, I mean, when shit hits the fan, it hits advertising first, right? I mean, and in your role, especially as well, when you're at the top of a company, you're having to be especially resilient, aren't you?  

Rania Robinson  37:53  

Well, you are, because you can't, when you're trying to keep your team motivated and in you can't be you've got to lead by example. And I think this is one of the things I have found most challenging in recent years, is that kind of being authentic, being vulnerable, being real, being honest, and tempering that, and managing that, that with not letting your team feel kind of destabilised, because you do need to be that tower of strength. 

And it's not that tower of strength is not about, you know, nothing's wrong. It's all fine, you know, bravado, but it is about going. This is tough. I get that, but we can come through this. It's being that beacon of hope when things do feel really bleak, you know. And I think it has felt really bleak for people, you know. And so I think that that can be draining. 

I think there was a time when as a CEO, all you really had to do was make sure the business was profitable, whereas now you've got to think about culture. You've got to think about inclusion. You've quite rightly, by the way, you've got to think about mental health. You've got to think about, you know, all these things, and it's huge. It's an extra layers and layers and layers of added responsibility to what is already a tough job in an even tougher trading environment than we've, any of us have experienced.  

So it's got harder, it's got much, much harder being a leader for many, many reasons, but so much more rewarding and enriching, to be honest, because there's that human component that wasn't there before.  

And I think, you know, I think what sets us up as an industry maybe better than some others, is that we are people-orientated. We have to be naturally empathetic, because we're, we're coming up with communication that absolutely depends on a deep-seated understanding of people and what motivates them and what makes them tick, and what makes so we have, we have to, you have to be a bit of a people person. You have to be able to do that. I think so. I think by nature, we are naturally kind of people. People, if you like.  

So, so, yeah, for that reason, we do love to be connected. We love, you know, we want these great relationships with our teams and but, but it has definitely become harder to be a leader. And I think, you know, yes, when you're carrying the weight of responsibility of your team's mental health whilst also trying to manage your own that can be hugely, hugely challenging, I think. 

Louise Scodie - NABS  40:22  

And that's where it comes back to the active practice. So you make sure that you're topping yourself up. What are you doing at Quiet Storm to look after the mental wellness of your teams?  

Rania Robinson  40:33  

Although, I mean, there's tons and tons of things that we've implemented over the last few years, not myself, we've got a brilliant head of ops lady called Summer Rozenbroek, who keeps a close eye on all of that sort of stuff.  

I think we're very, very conscious of how much pressure we put on people's time. I think that's the big one. You can bring in all these lovely gym memberships and all these lovely wellness kind of things. In truth, it really is about not burning people out by just getting them to work crazy hours.  

So, of course, there are, so that's, I think, you know, there's all the things that probably everybody's doing that's around flexible working. And, you know, like I said, really nice little we've got, like, a Juno platform that where people can, kind of, we contribute to health-related things, whether that's spas or gyms or flowers being delivered, whatever it is that makes you feel good. So we do all of that sort of stuff, and we have all the nice little socials and all those things.  

But, but really, I'd say the principles of it is there are times when you just have to ask your teams to work, maybe the weekend or work, you know, a late night. We try and keep it to the minimum. And when we do ask them to do it, we give that time back. And I think that is, that's right, you know, that enables people to get that kind of work-life balance.  

And we, and we really think very, very carefully about asking people to give up that personal time. We don't do it just as a matter of practice, just because we can, we really, really think about it, and I think that's probably the biggest gift at the end of the day that you can give your teams is respect for their personal time and their other priorities. So that, I'd say that is probably the big one. 

Louise Scodie - NABS  42:16  

And so refreshing in an industry where, historically, working late nights and weekends almost been seen like a perk of the job. Look how hard I can work. I don't need a personal life. I'm here on a Saturday night in the office, and actually, we know now that's no way to live. So it's great to hear that you're so thoughtful about that and making sure people have got a good balance. Finally, what is a lesson you've learned about how to support yourself? 

Rania Robinson  42:46  

That it is a disciplined, regular practice. That's the thing I've learned. I think, I think I'm probably one of these people that that thought that kind of working hard was like a bit of a badge of honour, you know, and you know, the more you do that, what I've really learned is actually it's unproductive to just burn yourself out. It's a short-term strategy. It's not a long-term strategy.  

And actually, when you get to a certain level, our value is in our decision-making. It's not in how many hours we work. And you don't make smart decisions if you're tired, if you're overwhelmed, if you're overburdened, if you're overworked. So I think the biggest thing I've learned is to not do that to myself. And yeah, yeah, be disciplined about that.  

Louise Scodie - NABS  43:39  

My key takeaway from our conversation is about discipline and boundaries and being really active and thoughtful in how you treat yourself and treat other people.  

It's been an absolute pleasure to speak with you today. Thank you so much, Rania, for giving up your time. We know how busy you are. Thank you so much, and I wish you a week filled with active wellness activities that will fall to you through the summer and beyond.