The Healthy Church Staff Podcast
We're all about helping create a healthy, positive, and spiritually positive environment for church staff members and leadership teams.
The Healthy Church Staff Podcast
The Student Debt Conversation You're Not Having with Ministry Candidates
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The Hire That Starts To Slip<br>
SPEAKER_00You just dropped hired your dream and seminary grad, great heart, solid references, and you're about three months in and all of a sudden you catch the grip that they're stressed about money. And then six months in, they're taking on a sign job, and nine months in they're starting to update their resume. You saw it leaked on churchstaffing.com. And you're thinking that they weren't really committed to ministry or to your church, and they're thinking that you weren't honest about the financial reality. It just seems like something was amiss, what started off so well nine or twelve months into it. Just seems, at least from a financial standpoint, that you're questioning what they're doing and they're questioning what you told them. So if this sounds familiar, we're going to talk about it today here on the Healthy Church Staff Podcast. My name is Todd Rhodes, and I'm one of the co-founders over Chemistry Staffing. And every weekday, Monday through Friday, I'm your host, just you and me, right here on the pod, getting some hang time together on the Healthy Church Staff
The Student Debt Elephant<br>
SPEAKER_00Podcast. The elephant in the room is really what we're going to talk about today, anyway, is about debt. Okay, we're going to talk about the student debt conversation that I'm guessing you're probably not having with most of your staff before you hire them. Here's the reality. If you're looking to hire somebody with an MDV or some kind of a theology degree, okay, most seminary graduates carry some not all. Maybe not even most, but many. Okay. Let me just safeguard myself here. Many seminary graduates can carry between $40,000 and $80,000 in student loans. $40,000 to $80,000 in student loans. That's a car payment and a half every month. A lot of times we act like calling or calling, ministry calling, trumps math. But debt doesn't disappear just because somebody loves Jesus and just because somebody is in ministry and takes a job
Stop Dancing Around Compensation<br>
SPEAKER_00at your church. And here's where it gets a little bit messy because we do a little bit of a dance. In our hiring, we talk about compensation packages in round numbers. Okay, we emphasize benefits and mention competitive salary. We assume that they'll figure it all out because ministry is their calling. And while we're explaining this, they nod along because they they don't want to seem like they're money focused. And at the same time, both sides avoid the real conversation. And then reality hits after the honeymoon phase. And nobody's trying to be deceptive here. You want to hire great people, they want to serve God, but avoiding the financial reality really helps no one. So I think it's probably a good idea if you have some of these conversations as early on as you
The Pre Hire Money Talk<br>
SPEAKER_00can. Ask directly, what's your monthly debt obligation? Share exactly what they'll take home after taxes. Walk through a realistic monthly budget together. Are these things that you normally do in a job interview or before you make an offer? No, they're not. But there's things that are going to come back to bite you, you know where, three, six, nine, twelve months in when the numbers just don't add up like the candidate thought that they would. Ask those questions. Let them process whether the math actually works, and then give them permission to say no, if it doesn't, it's better to lose a candidate than to destroy a staff
Why Some Churches Underpay<br>
SPEAKER_00member. And let me say something to the churches here as well. We talk to candidates all the time that just talk to a candidate not too long ago that says, Why do churches pay so little? And my answer to him was one of two reasons. Number one is the churches pay what they can pay, and this is honestly the case in a lot of ch a lot of churches, they pay what their budget will allow, and sometimes that's not nearly as much as even what market value is. So as a candidate, you need to know that. You need to know what your number is, and you need to not take a job where you know the numbers and the math isn't going to work. So that's the one side of it is churches that pay only what they can because that's all they have. The other side are the churches that have resources, but are just, can I say, they're cheap. You've got money in your budget, but you still want to hire that youth pastor for $35,000. That says a lot about your church. And if you're a candidate, candidating or interviewing at that church, you need to, again, you need to be wise. You need to put those numbers together. And if you're a church man, don't be cheap. Don't be cheap. We always tell our churches, hey, be as generous as you can. If the money's there, and you don't have to throw $150,000 in an eighty thousand dollar roll, but you need to pay the $80,000 rather than the $50. Okay? So that
How Financial Stress Hurts Culture<br>
SPEAKER_00makes sense. When people are financially stressed, everything suffers. Their focus splits between ministry and survival. That's when a lot of the side projects come in, where they try to earn a little bit more money here. The wife goes to work there. The family starts to feel the strain, and your other staff members watch and they start to worry about their own future. And the whole team culture shifts when money becomes a constant source of anxiety. So here's your bottom line for today: calling does
Calling Does Not Cancel Debt<br>
SPEAKER_00not cancel debt. And pretending it does so, or just ignoring that there's any debt there at all, from both the church side and the candidate side, both the candidate and your team culture will suffer if you don't start to have those conversations and if you don't go in wide-eyed to know exactly how that math
Audit Your Last Three Hires<br>
SPEAKER_00works. So this week, I'd love to challenge you here to audit your last three hires. Did you have an honest financial conversation before they said yes? And if you're currently hiring, add this question to your process: something like help, hey, help me understand your financial situation so that we can determine if this role works for both of us. Okay. Your transparency protects them and it also protects your team. And when the math works from day one, every single person wins. The person you're hiring wins, your church wins on the long haul as well.
Share The Episode And Reach Out
SPEAKER_00So I'd love for you to share this with another church leader who's hiring right now. Maybe you know somebody, and this could be of great help to them. Go ahead and pass this on forward to them. And if there's any way that I can help you and your church, reach out to me, podcast at chemistrystaffing.com. I'd love to hear from you. And I hope that you'll also, if you're not already a subscriber to the podcast, go ahead and hit subscribe. And tomorrow we'll be right back here. And we're going to talk about hiring again a little bit. And the title for tomorrow, you won't want to miss it, When Your Dream Candidate Can't Afford to Say Yes. The same thing from a little different angle tomorrow. Okay, so I hope you'll join me right here on the Healthy Church Staff Podcast.
