Why Churches Want Seminary Training But Won't Pay Seminary Prices

In this episode of the Healthy Church Staff Podcast, Todd Rhoades discusses the challenges churches face when hiring qualified ministry leaders with inadequate compensation. He highlights the financial burdens faced by seminary graduates and suggests that churches need a reality check on their hiring practices, such as reconsidering degree requirements and offering fair pay. • Hiring frustration over few qualified youth pastor applicants. • High cost of seminary education vs. low salary offers. • Churches lose potential leaders due to financial impracticality. • Need to prioritize potential over formal qualifications in hiring. • Encouragement to rethink degree requirements and compensation. • Importance of fair pay to attract and retain qualified leaders.

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Transcript

When Candidates Decline The Offer

SPEAKER_00 0:07

To post a job opening for a youth master, the requirements are a Master of Divinity preferred, three years experience, apart for students. Your salary, $32,000 plus benefits. And you get 12 applications to are qualified, and both decline your offer, and you're frustrated because you feel like they're entitled, right? Let's talk about that today here on the Healthy Church Staff Podcast. My name's Todd Rhodes. I'm your host, one of the co-founders also over at chemistrystaffing.com. That's my day job. Okay, let's start

Seminary Debt Meets Church Pay

SPEAKER_00 0:42

here. The average and we talked about this on Monday of this week. We're going to talk about it a little bit again today because I see it happening all the time in our hiring at churches. The average seminary degree right now costs $60,000 to $80,000. It takes three years. That's three years, usually of no income or maybe some part-time side income, plus undergrad debt that they're already taking into their seminary career. We're talking six figures a lot of times easily of debt. And then you offer them what a shift manager at Target makes. And you wonder why they're not jumping at the opportunity. But it gets worse. You're not just losing candidates, you're losing future leaders. Because these smart, capable people, these people that have prepared for ministry, these people that are sometimes really smart, really sharp. As I said, they're capable. They've been called and they're they've been prepping, prepping for ministry. They've been prepping to work in a church just like yours, but they're capable because capable because they're also doing the math. They see seasoned pastors struggling financially at age 50. So they choose maybe business or a nonprofit or tech or literally anything else but working at a church. We see this all the time. The number of candidates that we come across that have seminary degrees, MDivs, doctors of theology, and they're not working in the church. Why? Because man, they've when reality hits the road, they've got debt that they've got to pay off, and they can't do it. Maybe exaggerating a little bit, but they can't do it at $35,000 a year. They will never ever pay off their debt. The people that you most want in ministry, honestly, are the ones smart enough to avoid it right now. So I know your heart is right. You want qualified leaders. You know what your budget is. It is what it is. We've talked about that yesterday on the podcast. But somehow, somewhere along the way, we've, in many cases, created an impossible equation. The reality check really needs to take place. And what does that reality check look like, Ted? Are you ready? Are you sitting down? Because this might sting a little bit. Okay? Here's the reality check that as you hire, your church actually needs.

Potential Over Pedigree Hiring

SPEAKER_00 3:13

Number one. Stop requiring degrees that you aren't able to fund. Okay? If you want an MDiv, you really do need to pay MDiv prices. If you can't pay MDiv prices, hire for character and coach up those skills. Okay? Potential over pedigree. Always. Always. Potential over pedigree. Create apprenticeship apprenticeship pathways instead of degree requirements. Maybe you partner with other churches to fund internships that can actually pay. Your congregation has no idea what a seminary degree costs. They think it's like getting like a teaching certificate or something. And when you explain the real numbers, even to the people on your search committee, a lot of times they're shocked because they had no idea. Most would rather fund the right person than require the wrong degree. But they need you to lead that conversation.

Fix Requirements Or Fix Salary

SPEAKER_00 4:09

Here's the bottom line for today. You can't demand Lexus qualifications and offer Honda compensation. Eventually, you'll end up driving all by yourself. This week I want you to take a look at every job description that you've posted in the past two years and ask yourself if I were carrying the debt load that we're requiring, would I take this job? And if the answer is no, you got to change the requirements or change the pay. Don't change the person. Your church deserves great leaders, and great leaders deserve honest compensation. So you need to make the math work, and the ministry will follow. I realize I might have got myself in a little bit of trouble here today, and I'd love to hear if you're like Todd, you're off your rocker. I'd love to hear it. Podcast at chemistry staffing.com. Maybe you don't think I'm off my rocker. Maybe you think I'm onto something, but you have no idea how to deal with this in your next hire. I'd love to have that conversation with you.

The 35K Youth Pastor Reality

SPEAKER_00 5:15

I know I've told the story before. I was on the phone not too long ago with a guy, and I told him he was going to hire a youth pastor, and hopefully he's not listening to. Yeah. I told him, I said, hey, the days of hiring a $35,000 youth pastor are over. And he's kind of nodding a little bit. And about 10 minutes later, I asked him, I said, So what's your budget for this role? And he said $35,000. So I'm telling you, the days of hiring a $35,000 youth pastor or worship pastor full-time, with benefits or no benefits, those that ship has sailed. And if you find somebody that's crazy and might I say this, stupid enough to take that role, it's probably not going to be a long-term role because three months, six months, nine months, twelve months in, that math is not going to work if they can't pay their bills.

unknown 6:06

All right.

Reach Out And Final Thoughts

SPEAKER_00 6:08

Sorry about that. You get crotchety old Todd today. But if there's any way I can help you lead better in your church or have a healthier staff, please reach out to me. I'd love to have a conversation with you. Podcast at chemistry staffing.com. All right, that's it for today. Hope you'll join me again tomorrow. Happy July 1st, 2026. If you're listening on July 1st, 2026. Have a great join me right back here again tomorrow.