The Healthy Church Staff Podcast
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The Healthy Church Staff Podcast
The Financial Reality Check Your Church Board Needs
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Compensation Tensions In Church Hiring
SPEAKER_00Hey this week we're talking about compensation and really difficult discussions a lot of times in church board meetings, in church search team meetings, in meetings where you're trying to hire a candidate trying to make that financial package work. And today we're going to continue to talk about this, maybe from a little bit different angle, but it's something that we've covered in Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday of this week if you're a regular listener. If not, go back and listen to those. Hi there, my name's Todd Rhodes. I'm one of the co-founders over Chemistry Staffing, and I am your host right here every weekday on the Healthy Church Staff Podcast.
The Masters Degree Plus 35K Problem
SPEAKER_00So you're sitting in a board meeting, the conversation turns to hiring the new youth pastor, and somebody says, Hey, we need somebody with at least a master's degree from seminary. And everybody's like, Yeah, that sounds like a great idea. Everybody nods in agreement. So it's set. And your your new youth pastor, when you send out that job posting or that job opening, it's going to have in there that, hey, we want somebody with a master's degree. And then some you're back in your meeting, and somebody says, Hey, our budget is about $35,000, and nobody sees any problem. The same people sitting around that table who wouldn't hire a teacher without understanding the education costs in order to become a teacher, just ask for $100,000 in training on a poverty-level salary for a new youth pastor. And it happens all the time in church boardrooms all across the country.
Seminary Debt And The Hidden Math
SPEAKER_00And it's the hidden math that your board isn't seeing. And it's not because they're trying to be cheap times, but usually not because they're trying to be cheap, it's because they just don't know. They don't know that a seminary education costs eighty to a hundred thousand dollars for that master's degree for that mdiv. Most students, most youth pastor applicants that have been to seminary and have that MDIV or that advanced seminary degree, most of those students, even if they're just coming out of seminary, are probably, and I confirm this with candidates all the time, probably carrying 50 to 80, sometimes over $100,000 in student debt. So that means that your entry level higher is not the same as an entry level higher that works at the local grocery store or at Target. Your entry level higher, that youth pastor that you want to hire, in reality already has a mortgage payment before they even get a mortgage. And that's because they're paying on student loans. $35,000 a year. They're looking at 20 plus years to pay off their training for the job that you required them to get that degree for. And it gets even worse because a lot of church boards think that seminary is just like any other degree. They don't realize it's professional training with zero earning potential during school. No summer internships, a lot of times at Goldman Sachs, no part-time opportunities in ministry that pay minimum wages or living wages, just pure investment. A lot of times when you're in seminary, you just can't take another job. And if you do, it's very part-time. And a lot of times you've got a wife or a husband and kids. Meanwhile, your board members probably paid off their business degrees in five to ten years. That's just not the case anymore. So listen, your board isn't trying to be unfair. They they genuinely really want a qualified leader. That's why they put that education requirement on. But they're operating with some really incomplete information.
Walk The Board Through Real Numbers
SPEAKER_00So what do you do about this? I think you just have to have a reality check conversation. Sit down with your board and walk them through the actual numbers. Show them what seminary actually costs at the schools that they want you to recruit from. Break down what student loan payments look like on your proposed salary. Ask them, would you have taken your first job if it meant 25 years of debt? Help them to see that requiring expensive training means accepting responsibility for making it financially viable. Now, this isn't about paying what you think people, this isn't about paying people what you think they're worth. It's about basic stewardship of the people that you're calling. And if you acquire the training, you need to make the math work or you need to adjust your requirements. Otherwise, you're only hiring people whose parents can subsidize their ministry.
Low Pay Filters For Privilege
SPEAKER_00So, what does this do to your candidate pool? That's a great question. I'm so glad you asked that question. Because what it means in reality, and you might not like this, but you eliminate anyone who has worked their way through college if your budget is that low. You're going to lose candidates from blue-collar families. You accidentally filter for privilege, not for calling. And the people who look most like your congregation can't afford to serve it or they can't afford to live in the area where your church actually resides. So it's not just a hiring problem, it's actually a discipleship problem.
The Moral Obligation To Make It Work
SPEAKER_00And here's your bottom line for today. If you require seminary training, and I am not against seminary training, I am all for seminary training, but if you require seminary training for your job, you're morally obligated, I think, and biblically mandated to make the financial math work. A servant is worthy of his hire. You need to make the financial math work for the people that you're calling. And if your budget can't afford an MDiv candidate, then you need to make some adjustments to your requirements. This week, I just want you to sit down with your board treasurer and your personnel team if you're in the midst of a hire. Pull the actual cost of seminary education from three schools. You can do that really easily now with Google or ChatGBT. And then look at your current salary ranges. And if the math doesn't work for someone starting their career, then you need to either raise the competition compensation if your budget allows it, and if your budget doesn't allow it, you need to adjust your requirements. Don't keep asking people to choose between their calling and their financial future. Your board wants to do the right thing by your church and by your future staff. Sometimes they just need your help in helping connect the dots that maybe they just have never seen before. Help them see it and watch how quickly they want to help you figure out a way to solve it. That's that's Todd preaching today. I'll get off of my high horse here. I am now stepping down off of my high horse.
Get Help And Book A Free Call
SPEAKER_00Inviting you that if you have any questions about compensation, about budgeting, about whether or not you should hire, about whether or not you should hire somebody with a seminary degree, or whether it's whether it's whether you should or you shouldn't, I'd love to have that conversation with you. Anything about hiring, firing, staff health, benefits, compensation. I'm your guy, Chemistry Staffing is your firm that can help you with the added resources that maybe you just don't have on your own. So we'd love to be able to have a conversation with you. Reach out to me, podcast at chemistry staffing.com. I'd love to schedule a 30-minute Zoom call with you. Absolutely no charge and talk about hear your story, see if there's any way that we can help. And if there is, I'd love to work with you. All right, that's it for today. Hope you'll join me right here again tomorrow on the Healthy Church Event Podcast.
