Stop Defaulting to 'Where'd You Get Your mDiv"

In this episode of the Healthy Church Staff podcast, the focus is on reevaluating church hiring practices that overly prioritize seminary degrees over practical ministry experience. The discussion highlights how relying too much on theological credentials can overlook candidates with real-world ministry skills and proven success. Competency and practical experience are emphasized as equal, if not more crucial, than formal theological education for church roles. • Challenge the default preference for seminary degrees in church hiring. • Practical ministry experience can be more indicative of candidate competency. • The evolving ministry landscape requires adaptable and experienced leaders. • Competency should be prioritized over credentials in hiring decisions. • Theological education is beneficial but not the sole path to effective ministry.

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Transcript

Two Resumes And A Bias

SPEAKER_00 0:07

You're reviewing resumes for your new worship master role. And your first resume reads like this. It's a Berkeley School of Music graduate. He led worship at three growing churches. He's built teams. Has incredible references. Your second candidate, she's an MDiv from seminary graduate, solid theology, but very limited practical experience. Guess which one gets the interview first a lot of places. If you're like most churches, you're scanning for that seminary degree before you even read their experience. And I can tell you, you're about to miss some really incredible candidates. That's what we're talking about today on the Healthy Church Staff Podcast.

The Seminary Default Explained

SPEAKER_00 0:51

Last week we talked about seminary debt and student loan debt and how that's affecting a lot of candidates that you may be having apply to your open positions at your church. Today we're going to talk about what I call the seminary default. We've created in many churches, particularly in certain parts of the country, we've created this invisible hierarchy in church hiring. And here's what I mean by that. Seminary degree equals qualified for ministry. No degree equals proceed with caution. No seminary degree, that is. But here's the thing ministry training is evolving faster than our hiring practices. And the best youth pastor I know learned ministry by doing the youth ministry for 10 years. The most effective executive pastor at many churches is an MBA with business experience, but no seminary or theological training. But we're still asking maybe the wrong question

Competency Over Credentials

SPEAKER_00 1:50

first. We're confusing theological education with ministry readiness. And sometimes that's true, but sometimes that could be further from the truth. There are people that graduate with MDivs and advanced theological degrees that just would not work well at your church. And there are other candidates that do not have that ministry degree, but would be perfect for your church. A degree tells you that they can write papers about it, doesn't tell you if they can build a team or navigate a conflict with a different cult parent or lead through a crisis on a Tuesday morning. Meanwhile, you're overlooking candidates who've been sharpened by real ministry experience, even if they don't have the degree. Now, I mentioned this and I the last this is the sixth episode, we've talked about student debt loans, student debt, and all this kind of thing. I am not anti-seminary, I am not anti-educ. Theological training matters. I have to say that because some people are going to hear what I say and say, Todd doesn't give a hoot about theological education. I really do. But competency trumps credentials every single time. Let me say that again. Competency trumps credentials every single time. So I think a lot of churches would just do well not to drop seminary requirements or prefer preferences

What To Ask Instead Of Degrees

SPEAKER_00 3:10

at all. I'm not saying that at all. But go with more of a competency-first approach. Start with, hey, can this person, can they do the job that we're asking them to do? And when you ask that question, you're looking for proven track records, not just degrees or paper credentials. Ask about their philosophy of ministry, not just their direct degree. How do they handle conflict? How do they build teams? How do they cast vision? Because a lot of seminaries and higher education institutions don't necessarily teach a lot about casting vision or building teams, or even for that matter, handling conflicts, which is a lot of church work. What results have they produced? What leaders have they developed? Some of the best ministry leaders earned theology, learned theology through mentorship and conferences, and 15 years of faithful service. Seminary can be one path to competency, but let me tell you, it's not the only path. And your church needs leaders who can actually lead, not just people who studied leadership. The marketplace is full of talented people who love Jesus and have really practical skills. Now, they might not have an MDiv, but they know how to get things done. And in today's ministry landscape, which has changed, as we said on Friday's podcast, it's changed dramatically in the last 10 to 20 years. In today's ministry landscape, that matters a lot more than maybe what you think.

Your Inbox Might Hold The Best Hire

SPEAKER_00 4:43

So here's the bottom line for today. Stop letting degree requirements eliminate candidates who could absolutely transform your ministry. The best hire you ever made might be sitting right in your inbox right now. Don't let outdated requirements keep you from finding them. You might think I'm smoking coconut over here, or maybe even something worse than coconut, and you want to kind of give me a piece

Email Todd And What Is Next

SPEAKER_00 5:08

of your mind. If you've got enough mind that you can spare some to me, I'd love to have it. You can reach out to me at podcast at chemistrystaffing.com. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. Also, if you need some help in this area, you're just trying to figure this out, and they're like, Todd, this is a new concept to me. And I don't know how to tell my team this. I don't know how to communicate this and lead my team through this changing job market that we have in the church world these days. I'd love to have a conversation with you, hear your story, hopefully give you some practical advice. You can reach out to me anytime at podcast at chemistry staffing.com. All right, well, that's it for today. I hope you'll join me every day this week. It's just you and me here on the podcast, not millions of people. It's I just consider it you and me. So I'd love to hear from you, podcast at chemistry staffing.com. Hope you'll join me again tomorrow because we're gonna talk about the younger generation. We're gonna talk, continue to talk a little bit about hiring. We're gonna talk about the younger generation that won't bet their family's future on faith and calling alone. It could be another controversial topic, and I hope you'll join me here for it. Because we're not gonna shy away from it. We're gonna dig right in here on the Healthy Church Damn Podcast. Thanks, everybody.