The Healthy Church Staff Podcast
We're all about helping create a healthy, positive, and spiritually positive environment for church staff members and leadership teams.
The Healthy Church Staff Podcast
The Generation That Won't Bet Their Family's Future on Faith Alone
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A Job Post Nobody Can Take
SPEAKER_00You post a ministry position for $42,000 in no benefit. Three years ago you'd get probably 40 applications, and last month we got six applications, and two withdrew after the first screening. The candidates that you really wanted said was really candid with you and said, Hey, I love the ministry, I love your church, but I can't ask my wife to live on hope. And your first thought was probably, what in the world happened to trusting God? But what if the real question is actually different? We're going to talk about that. Salaries and hiring and all that good stuff here on the Healthy Church Staff Podcast today. Because something's shifting in ministry hiring, and it's probably not what you think. Hi there, my name's Todd Rhodes, one of the co-founders over at chemistry staffing.com, and you are listening to the Healthy Church Staff Podcast.
Younger Candidates Do The Math
SPEAKER_00Younger candidates are not less faithful, they're more financially literate. I call it the new ministry math. The younger folks that are either getting into ministry or are going on their second or third ministry role, a lot of times they've watched their parents stress about money their whole childhood. They've calculated what daycare costs. They know the actual price of health insurance. They are not anti-calling, they're not anti-church, they're not anti-your church, but they are pro-planning. And honestly, I don't think that's a bad thing. Because here's what we've been telling ourselves. And we've been telling ourselves this for years. And it's generational, it's not totally false, but it's not complete either. Here's what we tell ourselves, or what my generation at least told ourselves. And it's different than what the Yumber generation is telling themselves. We told ourselves, hey, if God calls us, He'll provide. And now we're the ones that are sitting
When We Spiritualize Low Pay
SPEAKER_00in the seat that are hiring people, and we just turn the tables and say, hey, if God's calling them, he'll provide. Hey, money shouldn't matter in ministry. It didn't matter in ministry back in the day. I remember my my first, I was part-time, but I was 20 hours a week. My first paycheck was $64.64. I got that consistently every two weeks for ministry. And God called me and he provided, but it wasn't totally through that $64.64, I might add. Other things that we tell ourselves, and money shouldn't matter in ministers in ministry. Hey, we're storing this is a good one. This is one of my favorites. Hey, we're storing up treasures in heaven, not on earth. The right person will trust God with the finances. Meanwhile, we're losing some incredible candidates. And if you've hired tried to hire somebody here recently, you'll know this. We're losing some incredible candidates to secular jobs. I tell the churches that we're working with five, 10, 15 years ago, the question was the candidates that you're talking to are asking, is do I want to work at your church? Today, the question is, do I want to work at a church? Because a lot of churches, they just can't make it make sense. The math doesn't math. It's not because they don't love Jesus, it's because they love Jesus and they also love their families. Now, listen, there's nothing wrong with expecting people to live by faith. I get that's biblical, but there's a difference between trusting God and being irresponsible with your family's future. And that's what young people are waking up to. We need to recenter here a little bit. I think
The Braces And Trombone Rule
SPEAKER_00faith and financial wisdom are not opposites. We shouldn't treat them as opposites. Good stewardship should include planning for your kids' needs. We talk about the braces and the trombone rule. You need to pay your staff enough so that if their son wants to play the trombone, that they can afford the rental payments on the trombone or to buy a trombone. Or they go to the dentist and the dentist says they need braces. You need to be able to pay your staff enough that they don't have to figure out how to take out a second mortgage on their home so their child can get braces. So good stewardship includes planning for your family and for your kids' needs. And maybe if you think about it, if we just back down and get off of our high horse, our I've been in ministry for 30 years and I know better high horse. Maybe the issue isn't their lack of trust. Maybe, maybe it's our compensation structure. If we want quality people, we need to pay them fairly, not extravagantly. I didn't say that. Fairly. We need to be generous.
Pay Fairly With Real Benchmarks
SPEAKER_00So what does this actually look like? At chemistry, we often tell churches, hey, you need to benchmark your salaries against whatever's average in your market. Okay? Include benefits in your compensation conversations. Be honest about cost of living realities, and stop spiritualizing underpayment. You've gotta stop doing that. If you can't afford to hire, maybe you can't afford to hire yet. I've told people they used to be able to hire youth pastors and worship pastors for $35,000 a year. And I'm telling them, hey, at this point, put that together and hire one good person because you're not gonna find you're not gonna find that $35,000 to $40,000 candidate is just incredibly hard to find because they're doing the math and they're asking, I think, some really good questions. The best ministry candidates today, I think, young or old, are thinking long-term. They want to serve faithfully for decades, and that does require some financial stability, not living your entire life under financial stress. The other thing I'll just throw in here is a lot of the younger candidates are coming into you into your church or into their first job or their first career with pretty sizable educational debt, seminary debt, college debt, financial loans. And when we underpay, we're actually encouraging short-term thinking because they can't continue to do life at a deficit. Take this job now, trust God, figure it out later. Man, we did that all the time. I did that a couple times, and honestly, was it the best choice? I think I was exactly where God wanted me to be at the time. But it was a stretch financially. Believe me. Mature
Audit One Role Before Hiring
SPEAKER_00adults plan for later. They have faith, but they also plan. Here's your bottom line for today. The generation that won't bet their family's future on faith alone really isn't less spiritual. They're actually probably a little bit more responsible. This week, I'd love for you to audit one open position. Maybe you're getting ready to hire somebody. Calculate what that salary actually means for a family of four in your area. If you wouldn't take it, don't expect somebody else to. I've actually asked churches when they say that they want to pay $35,000 or $40, or $45,000. I put myself on the line there, but I say, would if you were starting your ministry career, would you take that job for that amount of money? Most of them shake their head and say, no, it'd be hard. If you wouldn't take it, it's gonna be really hard to expect somebody else to. So I mean, that sounds like a bunch of bad
A Better Way To Attract Talent
SPEAKER_00stuff going on here, right? Todd, let me leave you with something a little bit more positive. Okay, your next hire is out there. Just you just need to know they're doing the math before they come and take a job at your church or even a job in ministry. Help them make both work. I hope this has helped you. And these are the kind of conversations that I have with churches all the time. I'd love to have a conversation with you about how your church handles this. How do you pay what's fair? What is fair? What's generous? What is stingy on the other side of things? Why can't we get people to apply for our church? What's wrong? Read my job description, Todd. Tell me what I'm missing here. We love to have those conversations. I love to have those conversations. Reach out to me. Podcast at chemistry staffing is my email address. I'd love to hear from you and see if there's a way that I can help you and your church.
