Harnessing Team Spirit and Entrepreneurship: Tina Hamilton's Insights on Navigating the AI/HR Landscape

Imagine the thrill of being a die-hard sports fan, riding the highs and lows of a season with your beloved team. That's what life is like for our guest, Tina, an unwavering Eagles fan and a passionate entrepreneur. Tina also shares her unique heritage as the daughter of a Holocaust survivor and a Cuban refugee, painting a vivid picture of her upcoming journey to explore her roots in Cuba.

Running a business comes with its fair share of challenges and successes. Tina gives us a front-row seat to her journey: navigating market research, process building, hiring, and HR outsourcing. We uncover the importance of having the right team and the art of effective delegation. Tina's invaluable insights stem from her experience with the 2007-08 market crash, providing a wealth of wisdom for aspiring entrepreneurs.

We can’t ignore the impact of AI on various industries and the job market. We dive into these potential long-term effects and the call for businesses to recognize and prepare for them. Tina also recommends the insightful white paper, "The Complete Guide to HR Outsourcing", a must-read for those seeking to understand HR's evolving landscape, available on the myHRPartner site.

About Tina:
Founder and CEO of myHR Partner, Inc., a 3x Inc5000 recipient along with multiple Best Places to work awards both statewide and nationally. She oversees the organization and represents myHR Partner through her involvement in the community, nationwide speaking engagements and writing her monthly newspaper column and Inc.com quarterly column. She is also involved the global Entrepreneurs’ Organization.

Prior to founding myHR Partner, Tina was the owner/operator of a staffing service franchise. After a corporate merger, she took advantage of the sell-back opportunity and founded myHR Partner. She has two red-headed granddaughters who are the light of her life, and is the daughter of a Holocaust survivor and a Cuban refugee. Tina was born and raised in Northeast Philadelphia, where she started her employment experience working at her father’s corner deli.

Website myhrpartnerinc.com
LinkedIn linkedin.com/in/tinahamiltonmyhr
linkedin.com/company/myhr-partner
Facebook facebook.com/Tinaihamilton
facebook.com/myHRpartnerinc

Episode is brought to you by myHR Part

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Transcript

Announcer: 0:00

Entrepreneur, author and financial consultant, Marc Bernstein helps high-performing entrepreneurial business owners create a vision for the future and follow through on their goals and intentions. Ang Onorato is a business growth strategist to blend psychology and business together to create conscious leaders and business owners who impact the world. Founders Forum is a radio show podcast sharing the real stories behind entrepreneurship as founders discover more about themselves, while providing valuable lessons and some fun and entertainment for you. Now here's Marc and Ang.

Marc Bernstein: 0:35

Good morning America. Good morning Philadelphia. Good morning Lehigh Valley. Good morning Arlo, I covered everybody. Good morning Ang and good morning Tina. How are you today?

Ang Onorato: 0:46

Hello.

Marc Bernstein: 0:46

Marc, we'll introduce Tina in a moment. So the thing I'm thinking about before the show is sports, because I stayed up late watching the Phillies last night, watching them come back and lose, so I was thinking about the emotional roller coaster of that. We've got an Eagles game tomorrow night and I think we're all Eagles fans here I know Tina is for sure, and that you know Sunday game was not pretty. They won, but it wasn't a pretty game so it's got me concerned. And then I think you know this is only sports, like my life shouldn't be so affected by this. Yet many of our lives are really affected by it a lot. So Tina, I know is the voted fan. I'll ask you about that. Ange, are you the same level? Do you get the emotions of the?

Ang Onorato: 1:33

Oh gosh you kidding me, I'm, I'm, I still play ice hockey. I'm a freak for sports but I have a unique perspective. So my mother is from Philadelphia. I grew up outside the New York area so football I was kind of split down the middle, was mostly a Giants fan. I've really adopted being in the hometown now but in many ways, but always, a Phillies fan grew up with that. But sports, the emotion of it. I will say one quick thing what I do love about being in a city like Philadelphia is the one city, one team right. It's hard when you grow up outside New York and there's so many teams to root for and you don't necessarily have that collaborative and unified feeling. So it's been really fun the last couple years watching the, the success of the teams.

Marc Bernstein: 2:14

So I have the half New York Jean too, I'm a closet Yankees fan, but Phillies first. But my, my drother is always the Phillies and the Yankees in the World Series, but the Phillies win. That didn't work out that way at last time, but so I have that as well. It is interesting that you know, divided loyalties and teams and all that stuff. The one thing I don't really understand. So my daughter's boyfriend is a Steelers fan, his mother's from Pittsburgh originally, although he didn't grow up there. And I'm like, if the Phillies aren't in it, I'm, I'm all in for the Steelers, you know.

Marc Bernstein: 2:45

But that's not the way it works. You know, people are very, very, you know, and I don't see them as enemies. And same thing, you know giants and jets, let's say. You know, if I were in New York or I'd like to think of, the giants are terrible, which they seem to be this year, you know I'd go with the Jets. But that's not the way it works. You're one or the other. You know it's very divided. How about you, tina? What's your take on all?

Tina Hamilton: 3:05

this. Yeah well, I'm a season ticket holder of the Eagles, so big, big fan committed will be there Thursday night at 8 15 pm when the game starts, and get home at 3 am. So I think that tells you a little bit about my commitment. I grew up in a household that was in Northeast Philadelphia. It was Eagles, phillies, sixers, flyers period, like that. Just there was always some kind of noise going on in the house all year long.

Marc Bernstein: 3:30

So your parents from Philly, because then you have no.

Tina Hamilton: 3:33

New York no my dad was born in Poland, so my mother was born in Cuba, but they met in Philadelphia and later in life and and that just established it, I guess, for them well, we covered that, so, whatever that means.

Marc Bernstein: 3:48

So Tina is the founder and CEO of my HR partner out of the Lehigh Valley. I mentioned the Lehigh Valley before, but she is obviously a Philadelphia in her heart. Tina is also so one of the things. My HR partner has been three times recognized as a 5000 top 5000 recipient and also in multiple best places to work, both state, statewide, nationally. Her role as the CEO entails oversight of the organization, representing the company through her involvement in the community, nationwide speaking engagements and writing monthly newspaper column and inccom quarterly column. She is also involved in the global EO entrepreneurs organization and that's how I know Tina, because we're in the same entrepreneurs organization forum.

Marc Bernstein: 4:41

And prior to founding my HR partner, tina was the owner-operator of a staffing service franchise which she ultimately sold I have a feeling we'll talk about that and she took advantage of the sell-back opportunity and founded my HR partner. She resides in Bethlehem. She's an empty nest area after raising her two children. Her two red-headed granddaughters I know are the light of her life. And Tina is also interesting that we're just talking about her background as a daughter of a Holocaust survivor from Poland and her mother was a Cuban refugee, and I'm happy to be joining Tina on a trip to Cuba this January.

Marc Bernstein: 5:19

That's right, we're gonna go see her roots together. We talked about it yesterday.

Tina Hamilton: 5:23

So excited.

Marc Bernstein: 5:24

Yeah, it's gonna be great, and she was born in Northeast Philadelphia, as she mentioned, and she had experience working at her father's corner deli, so we're gonna have some deli food after this. So welcome, tina.

Tina Hamilton: 5:39

Thank you. Thank you so much for having me.

Marc Bernstein: 5:41

So tell us a little bit about your story when you started, how you got to the staffing company, how you got to the HR company.

Tina Hamilton: 5:48

Yeah, sure, so, and how you?

Marc Bernstein: 5:51

became an entrepreneur because I know that wasn't necessarily Well. That was in your blood, it was in my blood.

Tina Hamilton: 5:56

I don't know that it was in my conscious plan, but you know, my father had multiple businesses. I found out later that my mother's grandfather had own multiple businesses. I found out after he passed and I also found out that my father's father had his own little business. So I wonder sometimes if it's in the DNA. But basically I worked for a staffing service organization as a general manager and the location I was working at was sold to an individual owner and he was an absentee owner. He really wanted to grow the business, but he wasn't. He really didn't have a lot of interest because he had a lot of other businesses. And so eventually I just approached him and said look, I'm running this now already. Why don't you let me buy you out and let me run it and grow it, because I felt like I could focus on it where he couldn't. So he was great about it. He actually financed me to be able to do that first business, which back then was a small amount of money compared to what you would do now. But that's how it started.

Marc Bernstein: 7:00

I was very fortunate.

Tina Hamilton: 7:03

I definitely agree. And what happened eventually was the corporation merged with another corporation, so I had an option of either selling back or buying out my competitor. So that was a tough thing. I was only four years in. I was in my early 30s, I was young, it was what I thought was going to be my life. But the other owner ran a business that I wasn't interested in purchasing, so I really ended up with no option but to sell back. So the one door closes, another one opens. That rule definitely applied here, because I got out of the business two months before 9-11.

Tina Hamilton: 7:49

And when 9-11 hit the staffing business you might know is it really took a huge hit because businesses were laying off etc and there just wasn't the need. So had I have made that decision two months later and invested in another business, I could have been the demise of my organization.

Ang Onorato: 8:07

Who knows the entrepreneurial hereditary lineage, or something that's right, at least?

Tina Hamilton: 8:12

that portion of it. So I sold back and it was wonderful. It was a wonderful opportunity because now I had resources to do something new, and then it was about figuring out what I wanted that to be and laying out the components. The beautiful part about that was I was able to lay out the components of what I loved and what I wanted to pursue that way and what I didn't love, and I realized that what I really loved was working with independent business owners, with working with people to help them really understand their businesses and what was going to work when it came to people.

Tina Hamilton: 8:48

And so eventually, through a lot of travel and error, I came up with the idea of, at the time, something that barely existed. Of course, the internet didn't exist much either, so it could have existed somewhere, but not in my perimeter. I couldn't find anything and that was outsourcing. The process of hiring, different than a staffing service or an executive recruiter, was just being paid to do the work and really learn about the companies and work almost within that company, because our goal was helping them find the right people versus getting somebody in a spot right, which can be two different things depending on the person doing the placement.

Marc Bernstein: 9:27

I did want to mention. It's interesting all three of us work. That's who we work with, that's all of our clients, independent business owners. So, you know, with something we could talk about too, because there are some unique things about entrepreneurs that are different than the rest of the world. It's as we all know. So what was it that made you decide to get to do that? I mean, how did you come up with the idea of helping people hire the right people? I mean, you must have looked at a lot of things.

Tina Hamilton: 9:59

I did. It was a process because I was burned out. That business was hard, it was 24-7. And it was when you're dealing with some. Big part of my business was temporary employees. It was a lot of headaches and I knew I didn't want something that involved that much level of stress for the rest of my life and and I really started digging into what was it that I loved, and what I loved was really helping these companies grow and evolve and get to know them, and I didn't get to do a lot of that in the staffing world, and so I knew that if I could start something, that was more like plugging holes.

Marc Bernstein: 10:37

I guess more than yes.

Tina Hamilton: 10:39

That's really true, because because in that business it's a quantity thing you have to have Hundreds of, not thousands of placements, because you make an incremental amount on each hour Somebody's working. So it's that's the game, and Although we were very good at it and we cared deeply about the people we place, there's only so much you can do in that that line of business. So so this took us into a whole different place, and so what I did was and what helped me really discover it was I came up with the idea and I Started. I decided to do a market serving, so I made a list of 35 companies that I thought would be the types of clients that I would deal with, and I added in some that I thought wouldn't be so to make sure I was on the right page, and as I started doing these interviews and, oddly enough, people were willing to spend time with me on the phone During the interview and during these interviews and give me ideas, and they, they helped to actually form some of the ideas.

Tina Hamilton: 11:37

And then what happened was somebody called. One of them called and said I know you're not in business yet, tina, but would you be willing to help us? And I knew, even though I didn't have every perfect form and you know everything Spelled out on how I would do it, I knew I could do good hiring so so I did it and it actually was the best thing, because by doing it I was able to help develop the process, and I'm a very process oriented person, so it allowed me to create some processes.

Marc Bernstein: 12:04

That's. It's a great story so far. We're gonna take a very short break and we'll be right back and I know we inch has some questions for you.

Announcer: 12:11

Are you ready to take your business to the next level? Over 20 years, my HR partner has been elevating businesses with outsourced HR services. Located in the Lehigh Valley of Pennsylvania, my HR partner works with forward-thinking small and mid-sized businesses and organizations throughout the US who want to harness HR to drive Success. They design and deliver tailored HR services, such as compliance management, employee relations, payroll and benefits administration and hiring. With my HR partner as an extension of your team, you will worry less and be freed up to focus on the core operations of your organization. Go to my HR partner dot com to learn more. Request a free consultation to discuss your HR challenges and learn how my HR partner can help. That's my HR partner dot com.

Marc Bernstein: 12:59

We are back with founders forum and I know you're bubbling with questions for Tina. Why don't we, why don't we go with that?

Ang Onorato: 13:06

We're gonna need about two hours slot and not the extra 15 minutes, but we got 11 minutes right.

Ang Onorato: 13:11

And we were talking offline. You know, obviously, tina shared, we're similar space in terms of understanding its talent acquisition. It's, you know, it's bringing in the right people and retention and developing them and and all of that. And we could talk for hours. But one key question I have you. I love the fact of where you left right before the break, talking about how, before you started, you did the right kind of market research, but you also didn't get stuck in the perfectionism of I don't have everything buttoned up, I just need to jump in and get started. So, from the time you did that to where you are today, how do you characterize, how did you build sort of that, that ability for you to really understand both what was the client need, but then how did you Architect the processes from? Because I understand what it really means to to go through the effort of 24, seven Hiring and all of the headaches. So tell us a little bit about that process for you.

Tina Hamilton: 14:04

Yeah, well, the true answer to that? It was really listening and it might sound cliche, but it was me at first so I could listen and see and observe what was working, what wasn't, what the needs were, and, and eventually the business evolved into a full-blown HR outsourcing company, which was never my goal. It was not even on my radar to have an HR company I'm an entrepreneur that happens to have started an HR company versus an HR person that started a company and and that all, every moment of it was dictated by the clients. So eventually we started seeing that clients were having, that we were helping and we knew that we were taking them forward. It was very clear we were moving them forward by hiring better people that fit in, but they were still having turnover, and so we started investigating well, what's going on?

Tina Hamilton: 14:55

And we realized that once they're in the door, we can't help what happens. So there needed to be some structure, and the quick story of the long story is that we, one by one, every time we added something clients asked for more and more and more, until somebody approached me and said would you manage all of our HR? And from there we created processes and so processes and listening to the clients to answer your question. And also having the right people, because, although I am process oriented, I am not very good at the detail, so I knew I had to have somebody polar opposite of me creating the actual systems, documenting them and making sure that they work for the next person that we hire within our team.

Ang Onorato: 15:41

I think that's a brilliant leadership strategy too, because a lot of people feel like, and it's a struggle, right, when you're an entrepreneur, to know what things do you dish off, what do you delegate, and a lot of entrepreneurs struggle with that. No one can do it as good as me, or there's a fear of, but I think the best leaders will tell you that when you surround yourself with people better than you in different disciplines, that that's really the secret sauce in terms of helping you grow exponentially. So I think that sounds like that was a process that you really implemented to run the business. So that's right.

Marc Bernstein: 16:12

Quick question. Tina, as an entrepreneur, I'm guessing you never had any obstacles you ran into. You never had any problems.

Tina Hamilton: 16:19

Yeah, I was almost sailing a whole 21 years, so of course being sarcastic.

Marc Bernstein: 16:24

Can you identify at a time in your business history where you hit an obstacle and had to overcome it in order to survive and in order to thrive?

Tina Hamilton: 16:33

Yeah, the biggest hit and the best learning lesson of my entire career all the way down was 2007, 2008, which some people call 2009. We were first in line when the market crashed, that people in that industry of hiring started to see a slowdown.

Marc Bernstein: 16:48

Nobody knew what was coming.

Tina Hamilton: 16:49

You're a lead indicator as opposed to a trail indicator, that's right, right, I think it was real estate and us and so we were just ready to roll out that new HR service. We worked 18 months on it and all of a sudden, hiring just started plummeting like almost overnight, and it didn't make sense. We were already in business about seven or eight years I don't know the math but quite long enough to see a consistency in our business and I started asking other people if they were seeing it. Nobody was seeing it, so we didn't know what to make of it. And eventually it started to evolve and at that time we had a little bit of debt, a small amount. It wasn't anything really to worry about. We were paying it down. But then it started to escalate.

Tina Hamilton: 17:32

Right, I was hanging onto the people. We were getting a rollout to service, but we didn't have our main business anymore. It was starting to just plummet. So we had to figure out do we still roll this out? Do we not roll it out? What do we do? And there was a lot of steps that had to happen, but eventually we had to downsize and Re-look at our structure and work back up. The biggest lesson I learned from that was that initial debt, because that initial debt compounded into a significant amount of debt. And once we Revitalized and came back to life better and stronger than ever, I couldn't afford to hire as many people as I needed or certain things, because I couldn't afford it, because I had a big bank loan To take care of.

Marc Bernstein: 18:16

So how long did it take you to get through that period?

Tina Hamilton: 18:21

It took a while to pay down that bank loan, but but to get past that initial period, I'd say about three years of struggle, yeah, yeah.

Marc Bernstein: 18:29

Interesting. But that's and not unusual when you think about a lot of business stories. Tina, looking ahead, if you were, if this, if this were three years from today and you look back over the last three years, you professionally, business, wise, you could say personally, could say financially, what would be your three-year vision? That that would determine if that was a successful period in your life.

Tina Hamilton: 18:55

Well, we run on the EOS business platform, and so it does require you to look out. Ours is six years entrepreneurs operating.

Marc Bernstein: 19:04

Entrepreneur operating system.

Tina Hamilton: 19:06

It's an exceptional program that's helped me evolve and grow, especially over the last few years. But Our our plan. We're in 40 states right now doing business, but we're not known in all the states, so we're working very hard at accelerating our marketing and our sales to evolve even stronger, especially in the areas that are surrounding us. Our second biggest markets New York, but Pennsylvania, new York, new Jersey and I'm 59 years old, so I'm also thinking about slowing down a little and stepping back a little, and so that's part of my bigger plan is is Figuring out what I want for my next chapter. I'll probably hang on to the business. I don't see myself walking away. There's, no, no reason to at this point. But what else, you know, what else do I want for my life? Because you know it's important as an entrepreneur to remember you're not doing this just for business. Your life isn't the business. It has to, has to be something else.

Marc Bernstein: 20:00

It's a question I ask people all the time if you're gonna sell the business, you're gonna walk away from it or you're gonna step mostly away from it, what are you going to do with that time? Because entrepreneurs aren't used to being Quiet or just, you know, retiring to goff or retiring to Florida and laying on the beach all all the time.

Tina Hamilton: 20:19

right, that would not, that would be my nightmare, right, mine's it's. You know, I think about a lot. I actually been working with a retirement coach even though I have no intention of retiring anytime soon just to start preparing my mindset for that, and you know I made a list of things I'd like to do, etc. But the part that's the hardest is that stimulation that you get from building a business, that that thrill. It's never been about the money. For me it never was. Now, as I get older, obviously, to look more important, but it never was.

Tina Hamilton: 20:49

It was about that stimulation of building something, growing it and watching people evolve and helping people. So I'm working on what I want to do with that part of it is yo actually staying involved and working my way. They have Global leadership programs where you can it's voluntary, but you know you're involved in helping to to work with entrepreneurs. I feel like that's a big part of it. I've also invested in some real estate. That's my new thing that I'm starting. So I just have to have a few things going, I feel like, or I might wither away.

Marc Bernstein: 21:21

We actually have a little more time than I thought we had. We had a little mix-up with engineering out there. We've got about seven more minutes in, so I know you have other things on your mind, so let's switch back to you for a moment.

Ang Onorato: 21:31

Yeah well, I have a big things on my mind that we talked about, you know, offline, and I think it was something that lit us both up when we kind of realized oh, you think about this too, which is the concept of the future of work. Right, and it's a term for those who aren't aware that has really kind of been born out maybe ten years ago. I think McKinsey was one of the first people to sort of lay it out as a framework and something that businesses need to think about and how we think about not just what the future holds in the realm of work, but what does the future of work look like?

Ang Onorato: 22:06

And you know that's from the human capital side to the location, to all things AI, for example, right now as well, right, so, as you're, sitting in culture and incorporates another area of my passion, which is, you know, mental health in the workplace and being aware of all those different tentacles, right, but as you're working with your clients and you're dealing on also the human capital side and learning how their needs have changed maybe now from 20 years ago, what are you hearing from them? What's the conversations around? Is there a question for? Do we adopt this model? Do we need more from our HR partner? Are we worried about how AI is going to impact? Do you build things around like where are you, I guess, in that cycle of thinking about and gearing you personally and your business around addressing the needs of the future of work for clients?

Tina Hamilton: 23:01

Yeah, well, there's so many answers there.

Ang Onorato: 23:04

Yeah, it's a big question. We need more than seven minutes, told you, we needed two hours of conversation between you and I.

Tina Hamilton: 23:09

But the human side of things. I've been actually speaking about that for many, many years and now it's becoming, as you said, so much more important because, with the onset of AI, there's a risk of losing that human element completely, and we've already lost some of it with social media and other technologies. Right, we all know that. I was actually called by a news publication just a few weeks ago and they asked me specifically about and this might help answer the question. They said there's a certain Fortune 500 organizations that are now using AI to determine if somebody is meeting the guidelines or meeting the rules, one of them being a very large organization that's known for putting GPS's on their employees, and that after this employee is taking too long of a break, or in the bathroom or coming in later, whatever it is that they literally are receiving from the AI their termination notice, and they wanted to know how I felt about that.

Ang Onorato: 24:07

Yeah, and I'll tell you how I felt about that. I can only imagine.

Tina Hamilton: 24:13

Yeah, because I mean well, the long term effects of that. So so, yeah, great, ai is going to assist in so many ways that will eliminate the need for certain employees and save companies costs and of course, we always have to be thinking about costs, right, I mean, you can't not think about that but it's also eliminating any shred left of human decency. To be terminated by a computer would just be a horrible thing, and if that's the way we're headed, then I think the human element, what you're talking about, ange is the most important message, while still incorporating the AI, because you cannot be behind the April when it comes to AI or you'll be, you'll disappear.

Marc Bernstein: 24:53

Well, fortunately, like any new technology or new innovation, I mean AI is the biggest thing to come along since we had somebody, somebody I asked about it who's coming on as a guest recently. I asked what's, what's the last biggest thing that happened since AI? And he said the steam engine. I mean, like that's how big this is going to like change the whole world.

Ang Onorato: 25:13

A new type of industrial revolution, for sure.

Tina Hamilton: 25:15

And moving at the speed of sound that we've never seen.

Marc Bernstein: 25:18

The internet didn't move it's absolutely, and the people that we've had on, logan Dopp from Turing AI and this this fellow's name is Chris Carr from Faro Tech is the name of the company and look, there's great things about AI and there's terrible things about AI, and how you use it is going to determine really what the world looks like down the road. So fortunately, there are people with consciences out there that are trying to do it, use it the right way, and there's probably going to end up being regulation. There's going to be all kinds of things, but it's you know, it's. It's definitely a new world and people have to be prepared for it, however you look at it right. So so some real quick, fun questions, because we only a minute or two left. Favorite music what's your favorite music?

Tina Hamilton: 25:59

Favorite music classic rock all the way, preferably outside somewhere on a beautiful day. That's my favorite.

Marc Bernstein: 26:06

I wish you would come see my band Friday night. We were classic rock and bluebell in beautiful evening. Anyway, I need to.

Tina Hamilton: 26:12

I need to figure out a way to do that. He's. He's an hour and about 20 minutes away from me, but I know, you know I got to, I can figure out how's your fate?

Marc Bernstein: 26:19

Who's your favorite artist? My favorite rock artist.

Tina Hamilton: 26:22

Oh boy, that's a tough one. I'd say Pink Floyd would be number one.

Marc Bernstein: 26:26

That's a great choice. I love that background music.

Ang Onorato: 26:28

Oh man yeah it just takes you away.

Tina Hamilton: 26:31

Yeah, and so many more I mean let's Epplin, stones, beatles, you know, name them.

Marc Bernstein: 26:35

Do you have a favorite book you're reading now?

Tina Hamilton: 26:37

Right now I'm reading the book Atomic Habits.

Marc Bernstein: 26:40

Ah, great book.

Tina Hamilton: 26:41

It is an exceptional book. I know it's been around for a while, but I'm I joined this book club and this was the book, and so I'm forced to to get through it, which is good, because I tend to start and stop to make it a habit to finish the book Right yeah, and there's great. It's literally an overall life changing book. It's not just about business, for sure, so I've enjoyed that.

Marc Bernstein: 27:02

What, what for for our listeners? What? What did you like best about it so far?

Tina Hamilton: 27:07

So far that it takes you through some simplistic steps that if you follow with each chapter you can really apply and it's not complicated or time consuming or or unrealistic in any way. It's very realistic.

Marc Bernstein: 27:20

Well, Tina Hamilton, thank you for being here today. My HR partner if you need help, you know where to find her and everybody. Have a great afternoon. Great morning it's after it's almost afternoon here and listen again next week to Founders Forum, as we have more guests talking about their entrepreneurial endeavors.