Lois Sonstegard's Ethos of Leadership: Cultivating Character and Trust in Turbulent Times

Discover the unwavering importance of character in both business and life, as we welcome leadership expert Lois Sonstegard to share her journey from the chilly terrain of Minnesota to the vibrant landscapes of New Mexico. This episode bridges the seasonal transition with a reflection on how character, much like the climates we inhabit, can deeply influence our professional environment. We unravel the essence of trust within the financial industry, guided by the wise words of historical figures and Lois's profound insights on integrity as the cornerstone of lasting partnerships and legacies.

Amidst a world grappling with the phenomenon of ghosting and an erosion of trust, our conversation with Lois delves into the current state of engagement within the workforce and the economic challenges straining businesses globally. Her seasoned perspective from her tenure in healthcare and manufacturing shines a light on the unsteady path leaders are navigating today. We tackle the difficult questions facing modern enterprises, from the implications of rising debt to the necessity of active and motivated employees, and the crucial role of truthfulness in every interaction.

We also discuss the idea that the foundations of a successful business are not just financial—they are profoundly human. Reflecting on the broader implications of company culture, the intertwining of personal and organizational character, and the strength found in collaboration, this episode serves as a ringing endorsement for the power of principle-centered leadership.

About Lois Sonstegard:
Lois Sonstegard, PhD, ACC is an author, speaker, researcher, and advisor to business leaders.

Connect with Lois:
Website build2morrow.com
LinkedIn linkedin.com/in/loissonstegard

This episode is brought to you by CamaPlan, A Different Way to Invest. Go to camaplan.com/foundersforum to learn more.

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Transcript

Announcer: 0:00

Entrepreneur, author and financial consultant, Marc Bernstein helps high-performing entrepreneurial business owners create a vision for the future and follow through on their goals and intentions. Ang Onorato is a business growth strategist to blend psychology and business together to create conscious leaders and business owners who impact the world. Founders Forum is a radio show podcast sharing the real stories behind entrepreneurship as founders discover more about themselves, while providing valuable lessons and some fun and entertainment for you. Now here's Marc and Ang.

Marc Bernstein: 0:33

Good morning America. I just got a little flash on my screen that I'm looking at saying will there be snow? It's an 80-degree day in Philadelphia, but I know it's supposed to get cool this weekend and I'm heading up to the mountains and so maybe I don't know what they're talking about Too soon, too soon.

Ang Onorato: 0:51

Marc, can you turn that screen off? Maybe it's a little too soon.

Marc Bernstein: 0:55

Well, maybe that was national news, maybe it's Colorado where my son who knows what that meant, but anyway, it's a beautiful day here is all I know, and it'll be beautiful if it snows too.

Marc Bernstein: 1:04

I actually I have to say this because Lois, our guest today, lives in Minnesota, lived in Minnesota when I met her. She's now in New Mexico. We might get to talk about that a little bit, but I had a very good friend in Minnesota and who recently passed, unfortunately suddenly, but his daughter posted something which was so great, so typical, of him driving in a big snowstorm outside of Minneapolis in his convertible with a top down and waving and, you know, going kind of crazy and backing into his garage while it's snowing out there. So I spent enough time there to know how cold and snowy it is there relative to even where we live. So, anyway, so kind of interesting. And I was thinking about something else, and another Minnesota connection, because our guest today, lois Sonstegard, has a brand called Build Tomorrow. That's spelled number two Morrow, and I was going to ask you did you take spelling lessons from Prince?

Ang Onorato: 2:02

That's a great great connection there, mar.

Marc Bernstein: 2:05

You like that.

Ang Onorato: 2:06

Very clever.

Lois Sonstegard: 2:08

It's a great connection and Prince will live on forever. You drive past his recording studio, you still see signs that you know people who are really missing him. So he was a tremendous person in terms of shaping our cultures, in terms of music, but also in terms of how we looked at a lot of social issues.

Marc Bernstein: 2:32

Yeah, well, that that would be that we could have a whole show around. That I would imagine.

Ang Onorato: 2:35

Yeah, but by the way you said, one of those that miss him and me too, and you say legacy forever.

Marc Bernstein: 2:42

That's number four, ever right.

Lois Sonstegard: 2:44

It's about number four yes.

Marc Bernstein: 2:47

So, anyway, great to have you here, lois. And for our little topic that we start out with today, I'm going to read a couple of quotes, and you'll find there's one word that they all have in common. One is the essential thing is not knowledge, but character. Dreams are the touchstones of our characters, and character is the real foundation of all worthwhile success. And I picked those because I happen to carry around a list of quotes that I collect and I first of all saw them all on page spread out, which was kind of interesting. By the way, I should tell you, the authors were Joseph Lacanti the order I read them Henry David Thoreau, who everyone knows, and John Hayes Hammond.

Marc Bernstein: 3:28

And it's been meaningful in our business, that word recently, as we talk about people that we hire and people that we partner with. And, of course, character is important. But I think we were always kind of conscious competence of that, unconscious competence of that, but now we're becoming conscious about it in terms of saying, hey, that may be the most important thing. We're in the money business, you know, we're helping people with their money and their financial legacies and their legacies in general. So trust is very important. And there's a saying that I'm sure everyone's heard that goes around a lot, especially in our industry, which is people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care, and I think that goes heavily to character and my the ladies that are all with me today.

Ang Onorato: 4:14

I'd like to ask your thoughts on character and what those quotes might mean to you yeah, I love this topic, Marc, because you know, I think it there's a common theme and any of the guests that we have on, but I think it also in the work that you and I do, the way I see character. I mean, I think the world. We need to really hone in on this again and remind ourselves that, whether we're talking about very accomplished, very seasoned folks and sort of what their legacy might look like and, you know, having that someone that represents themselves or their work with high character but I also think it's great for young folks to kind of see, you know that character is an important thing because, like you said, your word is your bond and you can do all kinds of things with business and money and success and accolades. But if there's nothing behind it and there's not true character, then I just think it's all wasted effort, right, and I think the world needs a little bit more good role modeling in that regard.

Marc Bernstein: 5:06

One of my I'll just comment on that real quick One of my favorite expressions to myself these days that I say I don't say it out loud a lot is be your word, which I think is you know.

Ang Onorato: 5:15

Yeah, in a world of where ghosting is, you know, as common as getting a cup of coffee anymore, you know there's when you say you're going to do something or show up or call somebody back, or or just you know, service, give service in some way. Yeah, it's a good reminder. I think we have to, we have to learn that our word really should mean something.

Marc Bernstein: 5:35

So I think you know I was going to say lowest.

Lois Sonstegard: 5:37

More basic Underline I agree with your character is huge, because you can't trust without having a sense of integrity and the other person here's what I'm also finding interesting is inherent in that is the notion of truth. But we don't know what truth is anymore, because we hear the comment it's my truth, not your truth, your truth is your truth. Well, what is truth? And so things that we have taken for granted as common understanding we've suddenly lost, and so common ground now has to be redefined, and in our busy, fast paced world, we don't think we have time for that, or we don't, we miss it. And so we we move on, assuming that we're on the same page. But if you don't have the same notion of truth, what is word, what is character, what is trust then? And I think that is the fundamental question employees are asking right now and businesses are asking up one another.

Ang Onorato: 6:49

And we're asking of our government and our communities too. I think it's an excellent point, lois, excellent and a good entree to get into our topic today and get to know a little bit about you as well.

Marc Bernstein: 7:01

So let me tell you about Lois Sonstegard, who I've had the pleasure of knowing over the last year. Lois has a great deal of experience as CEO of Build Tomorrow, which we mentioned before, and president and CEO of LJL Inc. Her main thing these days is training and coaching of successful leaders, especially business leaders. She's got 35 plus years in healthcare experience in the healthcare industry, over 20 years in manufacturing and I just as a little aside one of the ways Lois and I met, because I have a group that I've started called the Manufacturers Forward Focus Forum and she's been a great resource for me on that and we're talking about how we can expand that and she's also participated in the MFFF, as we call it for short. I wish I had a number in there so I could make it a Prince type of name, but I there was a well, maybe, well, anyway, I have an idea, but I won't go over that now, but anyway.

Marc Bernstein: 7:57

So, as part of LJL Inc, lois was president of Whirlistyle, which is a manufacturer of proprietary hair styling products for the beauty and salon industries, and she's just got a lot of great things she's doing and instead of we usually talk about people's stories, how they got there I think we don't have enough time even to do that, probably today. But what I'm more interested in with you, lois, is the kind of things that you're doing today and the kind of issues that you're talking about with leaders of profits and non-for-profits and people in the healthcare and manufacturing industries that I know you're still working in, and so I'll just give you the floor and tell us a little bit about that.

Lois Sonstegard: 8:40

Sure, I think as I talk with people, one of the perspectives that I hear about more and more is a sense of uneasiness. There's a concern, what's coming down the road? We don't know what it is, we just sense something is shifting, and what is it? And so you know. I was thinking about today, as I was listening to the news last night, and the ousting of Kevin McCarthy from the Senate as speaker.

Marc Bernstein: 9:14

Talk about trust that fell apart because of lack of trust, probably on both sides.

Lois Sonstegard: 9:19

Right, but it is also an indicator of how things are shifting fast. It's like sand in our hands that just is going through our fingers and we can't close fast enough to hold on to that sand. And that, I think, is the sense that people are feeling. And so, as I was thinking about that, I said why? Well, I think part of the reason is we have some economic forces that we're also not talking about a lot. We hear it in the news Our debt, for example, 33 trillion.

Lois Sonstegard: 9:53

What do we do with that? Why is that important? Well, governments have to borrow money in order to be able to take care of their people. Well, we do it through bonds. And who buys our money? It's foreign governments. Well, what's going on with those foreign governments?

Lois Sonstegard: 10:11

China, germany, japan. You look at Japan. Japan has gone through many decades, what they call the lost decades. People are predicting we're entering one of those lost decades. At the moment, korea is entering one of those lost decades.

Lois Sonstegard: 10:29

Japan's issue is different from ours. They also are having to borrow money. They have debt. But the interesting thing there is the government borrowed from their own citizens because people had savings. Now those people who have savings are dying, so that natural source of money is drying up. So we're seeing fundamental shifts all over the world. We're seeing the same sort of things happening in Europe. So we look at that. We may not really understand. Well, what does that mean? Well, when you, at a macro level, have money drying up, we see it playing out in business. So you look at reports about what's happening with venture capital, money and private equity. We're seeing that there's less available right now. So what does that mean in terms of business development? Business growth it has a huge impact in terms of where we can go as a country. And then you take a look at the social forces. We were just talking about that, angie, in your comments.

Lois Sonstegard: 11:40

With Charter. We don't trust our businesses. We don't trust our leaders. Workers come to work and they go 24%, so two out of every 10 people actually show up and want to work today. The other eight are simply collecting a paycheck. So if that is true, how do we get work done? How do we motivate people? Well, I, for about six weeks, interviewed I think it was about 750, mid-level and upper-level managers and one of the things that I discovered was almost all of them had side hustles. How can you have that level of responsibility and have a side hustle. Many had more than one side hustle and the reason was they don't trust that they won't be the next person laid off and so they've got to protect their family. Logical, reasonable, and this is what we've created within our businesses, and so we put forth expectations.

Lois Sonstegard: 12:51

I have a business, I got a girl in the develop. I need you to be accountable and responsible, and employees are saying whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Just a minute, you haven't been taking care of me. I have no idea if I'm the next one that you're going to be exiting, and for no reason at all. I talked with an executive of a major US company. He is CEO of a division. He says every day he goes to work and says today's the day I may be laid off. Now, that's a leader who now has to motivate his staff. So the trickle down effect is huge and I don't see people really addressing that. And until we get to a point where we can begin to have some real issues, I think within our larger businesses, but also our midsize and smaller businesses, we've incorporated a lot of those concepts and so we're impacted in a similar way, because people come with the same fears and expectations.

Ang Onorato: 13:59

Well, we have a whole nother show we'd love to do just on that topic, and that's a great spot for us to maybe take a quick break, because I'd love to maybe. I know, Marc, and I would love to digest those thoughts a little bit further, lois. So let's pause there and we'll do our break and come back and dive into that.

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Marc Bernstein: 15:15

Welcome back to Founders Forum on this beautiful day in Philadelphia, pennsylvania, usa. Lois, that was what you just talked about was phenomenal, because basically, I asked you what you're talking to people about and you kind of summed up the state of the world which is, and it influences everything. And I'll just say one of the things that had me think about is, over the last year I've formed, with partners, a new financial services company. It's called March FWD and as a March forward, you need a number in that one too, or March advisors is another one of the subdivisions of the company.

Marc Bernstein: 15:54

But we started with our core principles, and I'll just mention one, which is integrity, and integrity means and you alluded to this before, ange but do what you say You're going to do it on time and if you can't do it, get ahead of it by undoing any possible damage you may have caused to the people that you made the commitment to. And you know that's a very and we, you know I'm sure we don't do it 100% of the time, but we strive for that all the time and it's rare. And you know, at a time when people are, you know, concerned about money, concerned about their futures, concerned about their businesses, I don't know how companies can exist without that kind of you know, core principle and, without you know, without running, make putting that right out front in terms of how you operate and how you do business Anyway.

Marc Bernstein: 16:45

So, Lois, with that I'm not even sure where I want to go with that, but talk about some of the work that you're doing. I mean, one of the things I'll talk about I find is extremely interesting. We've talked about it manufacturing. People are having all kinds of struggles with, you know, employee issues, finding the right employees, retaining employees, supply chain, you know, certainly influenced by a lot of the factors you talked about monetary issues and the prices of labor and the prices of manufacturing overseas and that kind of thing. So, given that one of the things that you've brought to the table in our group and otherwise is the topic of collaboration amongst businesses, would you like to talk about that for a little bit? I'm not sure if it's subject to collaboration and how that can be helpful to our current situation.

Lois Sonstegard: 17:35

I'd loved it, because I'm passionate about collaboration, as you know.

Marc Bernstein: 17:39

I thought you might like that.

Lois Sonstegard: 17:41

I love it, that's great Because I think it is key and there's a back part to it that, I think, is we need to come to GRIPSWE, and Marc, you and I were talking earlier on another conversation about what is that? Where do we need to focus? Is it on cost, is it revenue or both? And unfortunately, in our business conversations today, that is our conversation costs or revenue. And if we find that our revenue is tapped which, for many companies, it is because of the shrinking market, market share being consumed by so many people, the competition being harder, all of those forces. We then focus on costs and so we keep reducing costs.

Lois Sonstegard: 18:27

Well, there's a point where you can't reduce costs anymore without dramatically impacting the company. So take supply chain and supply chain. We've worked very hard at pulling all of the waste out and making it more efficient so we can deliver products more efficiently. And yet, despite that, you see today, like CVS is closing stores, rite Aid is closing stores, bed Bath Beyond is going into bankruptcy, we have Kroger's with 1.6% profit margin. That leaves you no room for error for economic factors that you can't control. So how do you thrive not just survive, thrive in that environment. I do think you can generate revenue in this environment by refocusing, and collaboration is one of the ways you do that. So, with collaboration within that fundamental, within that is what I think of as an interconnectedness, so part of where I think we're going to be moving very soon the forward thinking companies are going to be ones who say we need a communication network that allows us to grow and move our businesses, because without that we're stuck.

Lois Sonstegard: 19:58

I'm in Philadelphia I know this little bit and I'm stuck. I am in Osaka, japan. I know this, I'm stuck. So it doesn't matter geographically where we are. We're contained by our own boundaries. So how do we get past that? And I think it is through a collaborative process which allows us to be, in a sense, interconnected in a very different way. The good news about that is we have the basic building blocks. It's just changing a way we do we go about doing it, which makes it much easier to do. You know, if you're going from horse and buggy to a space shell, that's a lot of stuff you've got to do, but when it's interconnectedness, we've got the tools. We just need to begin to create it.

Marc Bernstein: 20:52

We, you know we've been talking. So one of the things you and I talked about when we had that conversation offline was you know, if you're Kroger's and you have this very small profit margin, you know what companies tend to do, which isn't the answer, is cut employees. You start cutting people and of course, that affects the customer service you can deliver, which affects your business. It affects company morale, the other employees morale. They have to work harder and they want out, et cetera. So and we were talking earlier about character so there are intangibles that aren't as simple as cutting costs or increasing revenues, such as culture in a company, and I know both of you have thoughts on that. So I wanted to introduce that topic and get your thoughts on that and how that plays into what's going on at this moment.

Lois Sonstegard: 21:45

People will not want to connect with you and be a part of that process without character, and so we're going to be forced, I think, into looking at character. And that's going to be a hard soul searching for many of us, because we've made excuses. Well, it works, or they expect that, or how else can I do it? Right, we have a whole scenario of excuses and so, redefining what is character, we don't have plumb lines anymore. What's the plumb line of what's right and wrong? Character is based on knowing right from wrong.

Marc Bernstein: 22:27

Well, I would just mention this that over the last few years I've gone through I would call it a form of leadership therapy, where that requires you to look at yourself and to look and say how, what is my impact on other people, which I think is a good test of or it's a good reflection of character anyway, and that's not an easy process to do.

Marc Bernstein: 22:50

I went through some difficult times with that and I think my perception amongst most people for many years has been hey, that guy's a leader, he's got integrities, he does the right thing, he's honest, blah, blah, blah blah. But that's not the whole story. The whole story like when I gave you my definition of integrity that I mentioned before is different than the one that I've used in the past. It's a higher standard. It holds you. It's about what you do, not just who you think you are and which is a reflection of who you are. So that's not an easy thing to do for people or for companies, and but I think you're right, Lois, I think we'll be forced in that situation, which means some pain will come along with that, and I know you have some thoughts on that.

Ang Onorato: 23:32

Yeah, no, and I just because I know we have a few minutes left here, but I think a real world example tying a lot of this together, lois, is that trust is important, character is important. But I think exactly what you're saying right now. There's a lot of organizations that went through, in my estimation, particularly in the tech industry, some really massive layoffs earlier the year that they may have cut. They cut too deeply, right. So you look at Salesforce, the company Salesforce. They cut 10,000 people. Then they made a designation that mandatory five days a week, I believe, back in the office and now they're trying to hire people to come back.

Ang Onorato: 24:04

And that sentiment by so many laid off folks is that there is no collaboration to understand that collectively, the global community has gone through traumas in the last couple of years, that there's more to them than just punching clocks, particularly if they're at the leadership level, that just putting a mandatory and I understand why companies want people back. I'm not disputing that. I think it's the approach, however, that it's you're indispensable two months ago. Now you have to come back and you have to come back in the office and there's no real sort of collaborative understanding and motivation. It's kind of still that command and control method of leadership that's so outdated, and I think you're bringing up a lot of different, so many different elements of this. Each one of these topics that you're talking about could be a show in and of itself, but to me that's an example of that sticking out right as we've got to understand the bigger macro picture here of some of these issues In fact, I absolutely agree with you, angie.

Lois Sonstegard: 25:02

And back to what you were also saying about character. We've, because of the way we've done business, because we're so quarter focused you numbers focused, you meet them or you exit we change our value system and especially our view of people, right? So what I also see happening in our organizations is we're growing a group of people that are about covert narcissists. They zap each other's energy I can exist off of your energy, I will exist off of your energy and so it's become very unhealthy and we are going to have to take a look at some of that. But part of that's happened for survival reasons.

Marc Bernstein: 25:50

Lois, a quick question because we only have about a minute left. But you're doing all this great work and all this great thinking and you've been at leadership, coaching and training and leading companies yourself for many years and I know you have many more years and many more things to do. As you think about the future, what do you think your legacy would look like from your perspective, or what would you like it to be?

Lois Sonstegard: 26:17

Okay, so I'll break that into two parts. So one personal, which is with family. I think, if you really are going to develop character and purpose and meaning, look to your own family. What are you doing there and what are you doing with your children, your grandchildren? So that's one. The next is from a business and larger perspective. We need to address these issues, and so one of my dreams dreams gives hope, hope builds a. What was your character? Right?

Marc Bernstein: 26:51

Right, it builds character. Dreams will character.

Lois Sonstegard: 26:53

yeah, so one of my dreams is that, let's say, five years from now, we'll have a core group of people who are interconnected, who will be able to build revenue in a meaningful way, run businesses efficiently, so we really can emerge from this strong.

Marc Bernstein: 27:15

That's a wonderful thought to end on, since we are all about entrepreneurs here in business and the cultures they build and the organizations they build and the legacies they leave. So with that, I think that's our show today Lois Sonsteg ard, thanks so much for being here.

Lois Sonstegard: 27:32

Thank you for the privilege.

Marc Bernstein: 27:34

And Ang thanks for being here, Thank you both. And everybody, have a great day and look forward to seeing you next week, or hearing you or listening to you, or you listening to us on Founders Forum.

Announcer: 27:45

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