Founders' Forum
Great business stories and great people come together on Marc Bernstein’s Founders’ Forum! Marc Bernstein sits down with business founders across the country to discuss their lives, successes, lessons, and their vision for the future. It’s all about the success they’ve earned and the lessons they’ve learned along the way. These are American success stories and they’re not done yet!
Your Host, Marc Bernstein
Marc Bernstein is an entrepreneur, author, and consultant. He helps high performing entrepreneurs and business owners create a vision for the future, accomplish their business and personal goals, financial and otherwise, and on helping them to see through on their intentions. Marc recently co-founded March, a forward-looking company with a unique approach to wealth management. He captured his philosophy in his #1 Amazon Bestseller, The Fiscal Therapy Solution 1.0. Marc is also the founder of the Forward Focus Forum, a suite of resources tailored specifically to educate and connect high performing entrepreneurs, and helping them realize their vision of true financial independence. Find out more about Marc and connect with him at marcjbernstein.com.
Are you a visionary founder with a compelling success story that deserves to be shared with our audience? We're on the lookout for accomplished business leaders like you to be featured on the Founders' Forum Radio Show and Podcast. If you've surmounted challenges, reached significant milestones, or have an exciting vision for the future, we'd be honored to have you as a guest on our show. Your experiences and insights can inspire and enlighten others in the business world. If you're eager to share your journey and the invaluable lessons you've learned along the way, we invite you to apply here. Connect with us, and let's discuss the possibility of featuring you in an upcoming episode. Join us in celebrating your success and contributing to the legacy of the Founders' Forum!
Founders' Forum
Marc Bernstein’s Radical Reinvention: Building a Financial Future Through 'Fiscal Therapy'
What happens when the podcast host becomes the guest? In this special episode of Founders' Forum, the script is flipped as Ryan Sullivan, founder of Podcast Principles, interviews Marc Bernstein about his incredible journey from aspiring rock star to entrepreneurial financial advisor. Marc opens up about his early dreams of music stardom and how that passion eventually led him to law school and a career in entertainment law. But after years of navigating the entertainment industry’s challenges, Marc found a new calling — financial planning — and began reshaping the way entrepreneurs receive financial guidance.
Join us as Marc shares how he reinvented financial planning with his innovative "fiscal therapy" approach, the importance of deep, purpose-driven conversations with clients, and how he’s built a business model that truly advocates for entrepreneurs.
Key Takeaways:
- The Path to Financial Planning: Marc’s unexpected transition from law to finance and how his past experiences shaped his unique approach.
- Fiscal Therapy: What "fiscal therapy" is and how Marc uses it to help entrepreneurs plan their financial futures.
- Reinventing Financial Advisory: How Marc restructured his firm to ensure it serves as a true advocate for clients, avoiding traditional conflicts of interest.
- Building a Client-Centered Practice: Marc’s approach to cultivating lasting client relationships and focusing on business succession and legacy planning.
- Career Evolution: How seemingly unrelated experiences can come together to create a distinct and meaningful value proposition.
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The following programming is sponsored by Marc J Bernstein. The views expressed do not necessarily reflect the views of this station, its management or Beasley Media Group. Entrepreneur, founder, author and financial advisor, Marc Bernstein helps high-performing business owners turn their visions into reality. Through his innovative work and the Forward Focus Forums, Marc connects entrepreneurs to resources that fuel their success. Founders Forum is a radio show and podcast where entrepreneurs share their journeys, revealing the lessons they've learned and the stories behind their success. Join Marc and his guests for a mix of inspiration, valuable insights and a little fun. Now let's dive in Good morning.
Marc Bernstein:America. How are you? Good morning. I'm just checking our mic levels because I can barely hear myself in the microphone for some reason. So, oh, we're on the radio. So I just have to tell you I just came back from Florida. We were doing shows down there. We had a whole different way of doing shows and we are. We are changed our studio around all kinds of things, so apologize for that little blip there.
Marc Bernstein:Anyway, it's not a beautiful day in Philadelphia today, it's a little gray.
Marc Bernstein:I came back from this blue sky weather and we've had beautiful weather here, but today it's a little bit gray in Philadelphia, but it's bright in the studio because I've got a great guest with me today, someone who's been on the show before, Ryan Sullivan, and I'll tell you a little bit more about him in a second.
Marc Bernstein:But for our thought for the day, which we always do, I've been thinking about a book that I'm reading, and it's by a guy named David Brooks, and David is a commentator on TV, on news, things like that kind of a thought leader in a lot of different areas, and he writes books on different subjects, interesting subjects, and he wrote one recently that's on the bestseller list, called how to Know a Person, the Art of Seeing Others Deeply and being Deeply Seen. And he and it's a very interesting book. I kind of think I got it in the first 10 pages, but I'm reading just because he tells a lot of stories and a lot of parables that kind of illustrate his points. But, Ryan, I know you're a deep thinker and when I tell you more about Ryan it's very interesting because he's a young guy with an old soul. But you know what does that mean to you? When I talked to you about how to know a person, the art of seeing others, others deeply and being deeply seen.
Ryan Sullivan:How does that resonate with you? Sure, so I think there's, you know, the, the, what I would. What comes to mind when I think about this is small talk, right, and kind of that transition where you're like, ah, I got to come up with we'll talk about the weather or we'll talk about the sports team, so I can try to get to this person into a real conversation, right, right. So I have like small talk and then there's big talk. For me, I don't mind small talk, but I really want to get to that big talk, or whatever you might want to call it the opposite of small talk. Let's talk about something deeper. I don't mind, I don't, it doesn't matter to me what it is, um, but that's something I really resonate with this, because I love getting a little bit deeper and learning more about somebody and who, who they are, not just you know what they do.
Marc Bernstein:So actually the piece I read last night talked about you know you meet someone new. And I've made this mistake younger in my life, when I'm working on my personal growth and things, particularly when I was dating, I would meet women and I'd like want to get deep, like right away. Well, that could scare people off. It can intimidate them Right. So, and not just, I've done it in business situations and I've learned that lesson over the years, and I'm not a big small talker, I don't really love small talk, but you have to because you have to find some commonality and you have to build the basis for a relationship before you start getting into those things.
Marc Bernstein:And that's a lesson I've learned over time which is kind of interesting. So it's how you use the small talk.
Ryan Sullivan:Oh, it doesn't always work. Yeah, I know.
Marc Bernstein:I understand. So let me tell you about Ryan Sullivan. He's been here before. Ryan makes music and podcasts, so we have that in common. I make music and podcasts and money, as does he, but I literally make money, Sure, and we're actually going to talk about that a little today. He's the founder of Podcast Principles, a boutique content strategy and production company for B2B businesses. After his own podcast and music career took off in 2019, he helped other creators and business owners do the same. Since then, he's helped hundreds of founders, entrepreneurs, multi-platinum artists and creators around the world launch and grow their shows. His mission to help thousands of business owners expand their reach and revenue through the power of creative podcasting and media so welcome.
Ryan Sullivan:Ryan, thank you, Marc, for having me and thank you for doing this, something a little bit untraditional for us.
Marc Bernstein:This is going to be a little untraditional. So when Ryan was last here, I was very impressed with him. He's are you 26 yet 26. 26. Okay, so he was 25 when he was here and we, um, we, you know, we connected on it, on, we connected. I mean, we had a lot in common and we connected and we stayed in touch and what he's doing now is different. What you're doing now is different than what you were doing a year and a half ago.
Ryan Sullivan:So why don't you talk about that for a minute and then we're going to flip the script here? Sure, so, and I won't get right into that, I'll talk about what we're doing for a second to add the context. But what we do now is we had a company that helped business owners launch podcasts. Right Now it could be podcasts, or it could be video, or it could be radio, or it could be just shooting content and recording these business owners just talking, right. So now we have a lot more ways to do it and we've now adapted a little bit more to the comfortability of the person on the other side of the mic.
Marc Bernstein:So we so full transparency. Ryan's here partly because we've decided to work together. He's working with me on my podcast, on this podcast where we're going video. We haven't done video before, so today's show is the first video show and we're going to be doing that in the future and also he's working with me on um we, we have. So I'll just say this I never really talk about my business on the show.
Marc Bernstein:I'm a financial planner. I've mentioned it. I have a company, I have partners in a company called March, or sometimes called March Forward, sometimes March Advisors, depending on the context. And we, you know we, that's what we do. We work primarily I work almost exclusively with entrepreneurs as a company. We do a few other things, but primarily we work with entrepreneurs.
Marc Bernstein:And I don't talk about this. But I developed this as a way to kind of take off on what I do every day, which is talk to entrepreneurs about their stories. I really enjoy it and I really started this out of love and just to have something to post on social media without really knowing what I was doing. So I've never really posted directly about content, about the business and what we do, what's different about us, and there are a lot of things, and Ryan, the old soul that he is, has convinced me I should be doing that. So we're going to be talking not, we're not changing the content of the show but today we're flipping the script and he's going to interview me and this was going to begin some of our video and audio content that we're going to be putting out there. So so this is different for me and it's odd for me to be here and be the interviewee. Here and be the interviewee, but I'm ready, all right, perfect.
Ryan Sullivan:Well, let's get into it. I will keep this show somewhat predictable in terms of how you run it. I'm not going to be the interviewer that Marc Bernstein is. That's not what I'm trying to do, but we will get into your story, Marc.
Marc Bernstein:You are anyway, you just do it in your way.
Ryan Sullivan:I appreciate it. So why don't we open it up with the beginning right? How did this start? You can go any angle or direction you want to go with the start, but let's talk about it. How did this start for you, whether that's the financial side, or even how you got started in your career?
Marc Bernstein:Okay, so let's go back to high school. In high school I was always a good student, got good grades, but never really interested in a traditional career. I was going to be a rock and roll star. That was what I was going to do. I was, you know, I would daydream in classes and I would write songs and create, and I had a songwriting partner and I had a band and that's what I was going to do. But I also knew that in my family I'd be the first one going to four-year college and I knew it would be a letdown to my family, but also to myself, to not have that opportunity, because college those were the days in college was a great thing. It still is, but the dynamics of that have changed a little bit.
Marc Bernstein:But I so I tried to figure out what I was going to do. So I became a music major with the idea that I was going to study music and I didn't know what I was going to do after that. And then everyone always told me you should be a lawyer and because I was, I argued pretty well. So they thought you know, that might be a good career for you and it was always kind of in the back of my mind, but not something that really appealed to me all that much until I can't explain it. But I had an English professor named Dr Charles Robinson Charlie Robinson and it was a romantic literature course and I was very interested in that.
Marc Bernstein:College was the first time I got really interested in subjects other than rock and roll and I saw usefulness in a lot of the things I was learning and something about it sparked me, about the romantic authors and also the romantic period in music, because I was also studying music history. That really appealed to me and somehow I don't remember the connection, but somehow it occurred to me hey, there must be lawyers that are in the music business that represent musicians. Of course that's called an entertainment lawyer, but I didn't even know that existed at the time. So I started doing some research and I found this book called this Business of Music and I was like that's what I'm going to do, but I'm going to be in the business, I'll be able to promote my own music. I'll be, you know, I'll be there. So you know, we'll see how that all plays out. So that's the path I took. So I went to law school with the idea that I would be an entertainment attorney.
Ryan Sullivan:So wow, okay, so there's multiple directions. We could go with that, but we'll keep moving forward in time. Yep, did you end up pursuing what was your opinion of being an attorney once you got further into that? And then I assume somehow there was the finance, was somewhere in that journey along the line. Maybe you know somewhere in there.
Marc Bernstein:Well, first of all, I went to. I chose the Ohio State University, the Ohio State University, as a place to go to law school because it would be the most affordable to me as a music major. I didn't think I'd get into a lot of law schools, but I ended up getting into many, surprisingly, because I think they were looking for diversity and the fact that I was a music major might have actually helped me. So I went there with the idea that I would number one. My undergraduate fraternity helped. I was able to live in the house, I took a resident counselor position and I got a scholarship and I could become an Ohio State resident after a year. So it became very affordable and when I went, it was the only school that required an interview.
Marc Bernstein:When I went out there, I got a big welcome wagon from my fraternity and they brought all the co-eds and I was like, oh, this could be fun, it doesn't have to be drudgery to go to law school. So so, anyway, that was my. That was my methodology for choosing a law school. Did you end up becoming a lawyer? I did, I am, I'm still a lawyer.
Ryan Sullivan:Wow, okay, you may not know that. Yeah Well, do you? Interesting, okay, so why don't I zoom in on one thing here? Is there an overlap between law and finance that you found, maybe for you, or just maybe in general Music?
Marc Bernstein:law and finance Sure, I general Music law and finance Sure, I'll finish. I'll try to finish quickly the story and then I'll tell you. And we have a break coming up, so maybe we can finish the story before the break, sure, and go from there. But I quickly determined I hated law school. I mean, it's not designed to be a pleasurable experience but I really I pretty quickly realized I probably wasn't going to spend the rest of my career practicing law. And in fact I was with a friend of fraternity, brother, walking to the bursar's office to check out after the first quarter. I was resigning from law school.
Marc Bernstein:And somewhere along the line I realized, you know, I was at a time I was the last year of the draft in the Vietnam War and you know, if they hadn't ended the war I could have been called up and that was a war nobody at that point wanted to go to. But I did have this little inkling of I would love to go to boot camp but not necessarily have to serve in a war, you know. And to me I realized that law school was my mental boot camp and that I had to see this through. So I went from living in the fraternity house and the parties. Going on and trying to struggle with my studies and I was near the bottom of my class. I said, well, if I'm going to do this, I have to do it right. So I started living in the library most of the time instead and I turned that around. I finished the next two quarters and I turned it around. I still thought I'm probably not going to practice law for the rest of my life, but I got to see this through. So I did, and I think it was a great education and I'm really glad I did it.
Marc Bernstein:And I got out of law school and I just make a long story short. I spent a few years pursuing the entertainment field. I worked for a one-person lawyer in Philadelphia. I made contacts a lot of contacts in New York, because I finished law school at NYU in order to pursue the entertainment business.
Marc Bernstein:I spent some time on the West Coast, spent some time in England and I spent a few years trying to really put that all together and I gave myself three years and at the end of three years I saw the underbelly of the business. There was a big recession at the time and I saw firings and I saw a lot of people I didn't respect in the business for lack of a way of putting it and I also was representing artists who were needy in many cases and I just felt like I don't know that. I can see this is going to take a long time to be successful and I thought I could be, but I felt like I need more immediate gratification and I wasn't feeling fulfilled doing this, so that became my search for what I was going to do next and with that, I think that's a really good place for us to take a real quick break.
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Ryan Sullivan:I guess I should say we're back on Founders Forum, but I'll hand the microphone back to Ryan Sure. So we're here with Marc, with Marc Bernstein's story condensed life story. I have so many questions about the music industry, about music law, so many things that maybe we'll do on a further episode or they can get into on a podcast where you're the guest, but today we're focusing on your journey. You left off at hey, maybe this music law or entertainment law thing may not be my career.
Marc Bernstein:So I got back from a trip to England and was somewhat, I was encouraged, but the artist I was working with was discouraged about our progress and I'd put what I felt was my heart and soul into for the last couple of years and I said you know what? I don't know if this is going to work for me. So I spent, actually took a few months off probably the only time I've taken a real sabbatical in my life and to really figure out what I wanted to do and I was looking at a lot of different things, different areas of the law, but I really what I called the straight practice law. That wasn't the music business, didn't appeal to me too much. In hindsight there are a lot of things in the law I could have done. But but I got attracted to this new um, my, I have a brother that was in the insurance industry and he said, hey, there's these companies advertising for lawyers to be financial planners. So I went to one of these interviews. They would not hire me because, um, I was. They did. They did a marketing test and it was really about who I knew more than how good I was, and they wanted me now, at my age with all my connections not me at 29 years old without all those connections. But I loved what they presented and I said this is what I want to do and I figured it out because I love the gratification of helping people with their futures, their financial futures. I had some sales experience, I had background in sales, I was. It just seemed like it fit me really well.
Marc Bernstein:So that became my journey, began my journey to figure out how I wanted to do this, and I would just say that the journey started with a company that you know wanted me. They had just acquired. It was an insurance company that acquired a brokerage company and they wanted me to work on both sides of the house. But they basically hired me to sell life insurance. Nothing wrong with that and I've spent a lot of time in that end of the business, but it wasn't my picture of what I wanted to do and the other side never. It was kind of a scam where they didn't never really materialized.
Marc Bernstein:So then I went on. I started another company with a partner and and started doing financial planning, but we didn't have a really good model for it and then I joined a regional firm where I helped create the financial planning value proposition. This is probably going back 20 to 25 years ago and I felt like this is really closer to what I want to get to do, where we do, you know, we really go in without an agenda and do financial planning, we charge a fee and then we help implement the plan for clients. And I started out in my law practice.
Marc Bernstein:Besides musicians, I had small business owners as my clients. That was sort of my natural market, and I also had lawyers, because that was a natural market, because a lot of my friends were lawyers and some doctors. So I've always basically been in the entrepreneurial marketplace. The doctors and lawyers were primarily the entrepreneurial lawyers and doctors that had their own practices and businesses aside from what they did, aside from their profession. So that's what I gravitated towards and that's what I've been building for the last 40 years, I dare to say right now.
Ryan Sullivan:So we could go right into. Okay, what are the challenges that you face with this business. If you don't mind, I'd love to talk about what were some of the challenges that you saw people facing where you were about to design this financial planning value proposition. What problems were you solving?
Marc Bernstein:Well, yeah, that's a great question. I wasn't expecting that one. But number one people intelligent people, lawyers, doctors doesn't mean really they know anything about finance or you know. So I did a lot of educating early on still do about it, started out about products and that's one of my challenges because it was all product-driven for many, many years and I didn't want it to be product-driven.
Marc Bernstein:I wanted it to be planning and process-driven deeper conversations and talk about things like their legacy or talk about the future of their businesses or talk about some of the issues they're having in their businesses that they maybe don't think about on a different every day. But when you get deep they say you know what I've got to worry about. Like, if I want to succeed this business, I have to make sure some of these employees retain. I retain them and we're having some issues and I'm not sure if that's going to happen, things like that that would pop up and I I got to really like it to the point where I've written a book and the book is called the fiscal therapy solution, cause I felt like that's what I do and that's I really thrive on that, and it didn't hurt that my wife was a family therapist and I kind of I feel like I grew up in my marriage and therapy and I became kind of a money therapist to a certain extent.
Ryan Sullivan:Do you see, do you does it seem like? Is it always that financial challenges, so to say, are they always? Do you find that starting with the person right and their actual challenges will help fix the financial challenges? Yeah, um, is that where you start? You start with the person and kind of back to the theme of almost the beginning of this episode.
Marc Bernstein:Yeah, I mean I'd say that varies. I mean, sometimes if you fix the financial challenge, it helps fix the person Interesting. Sometimes the other way around, Um, but, and you know, and I'm not there, I'm not really a therapist, I mean I'm not really there to solve all their, you know, inner demons and all that kind of thing. But, um, I have a lot of satisfaction from having helped people find a lot of peace just through the talking process. That's why I call it a form of therapy. It's a form of unlicensed therapy. I have many licenses, but not as a therapist.
Ryan Sullivan:I love it and I'm just really glad that you explained that, because I find that that's one of your differentiators. So, before we get into where this company is going, talk about, yeah, some of those actual challenges that you faced over the years, and then we're going to get to the vision as well and what you guys actually do.
Marc Bernstein:Well, look, in most of the industry there's a pressure to sell products, and I felt that at all levels all the time. And you know and I was okay with it to a certain extent, because it's a great way to learn and it's a great way to help people A lot of the products really help solve problems. But the journey was to switch it around and today, what we do and, you know, still our value proposition is still evolving. But my ultimate dream is to have a company that does financial planning the right way, and what I mean by that is total blank slate planning. We have no agenda in mind of anything to sell.
Marc Bernstein:Another thing that we do today is that most money managers and there's a famous one, I won't mention the name that's always talking about we're fiduciaries. We sit on your side of the table. We do better if you do better. Well, that's true of anybody that charges a fee to manage money. However, their goal is to look at your portfolio and tell you what's wrong with it, and then they manage the money. Well then, it's the fox watching the hen house who's watching them. You know they're never going to tell you hey, we screwed up, like you should move your money somewhere else.
Marc Bernstein:So what we do is we hire independent managers that we've vetted and that we use a regular basis and that we have relationships with, and we can intervene when need be between the client and kind of mediate between the client and the money manager and do a lot of the hand-holding with the clients et cetera, but then replace the manager if it's not working for the client because their objectives changed or the manager's style changed or whatever it is, and those managers understand that that's what we do and their clients understand what we do. So therefore, we're not us watching us. We're there to really look after the client's interest and truly sit on the same side of the table. So there's other aspects to it, but those are two of the big points that make us different and that also I'm looking to perfect and I'm driving my partners crazy, because these are things that I've dreamt about since I started this business and we're very close, we're like on, we're on the edge of being there and we're continuing to work on it.
Ryan Sullivan:I think I think we have time for this. You spoke about doctors, lawyers, people like that when you were building. You know different other. You know financial businesses, right that when you were building different other financial businesses, right. Who do you work with now?
Marc Bernstein:Primarily entrepreneurs of all kinds. Still a few of the doctors and lawyers and things like that. We have, as an example, a lot of oral surgeons and we've been getting referred to some new ones, but these are entrepreneurial people, but all kinds of manufacturers, technology companies, real estate developers, you know you name it, but all what they all have in common is that they're entrepreneurial.
Ryan Sullivan:Yeah, yeah, and there's. That's why that's not the same as a financial plan for, you know, a standard nine to five job, for example.
Marc Bernstein:Right. So another thing that we that I'm starting to talk about a lot is that what is the keystone asset for an entrepreneur? Almost always it's the business or it's the assets, if they're. You know, it's the real estate if they're real estate developers. So most people will look at you know whatever liquid money they have, and say, oh, you should be in a 60, 40 portfolio or whatever it is. And we look at it and say we're building a plan around what their key assets already are. And you know, which is another big differentiator we start with the business and look outward instead of just building it as a separate thing, which I see so much is happening out there.
Ryan Sullivan:If you, what do you have to do in this next three to five years to make your vision a reality?
Marc Bernstein:Well, we have a plan. We're working with some outside consultants and the plan is to improve our client processes such that we're really delivering as close to perfection as we can get and delivering on our full value proposition. So we're starting with that and then we're rethinking about how to brand it and market it, which is part of why you're here.
Ryan Sullivan:Absolutely, and I'm results, or hopefully, your success is a result of us working together too, and I just want to say thank you for doing this and thank you for doing this untraditional interview allowing me to take the reins, Marc. I really appreciate it and loved hearing your story here.
Marc Bernstein:We have about a minute left, so I'm going to ask you a question, oh, only because, and then maybe we'll respond. I'll answer the same question what's your favorite music, since you're a music guy?
Ryan Sullivan:Wow, it's so hard for me, it's so hard to pick, I will say, my favorite band. It's called Sublime. It's a mix of punk rock and ska. I have the. I have a Sublime tattoo on my shoulder, so that's my favorite band. Favorite genre? I don't think I have one.
Marc Bernstein:Great band, great great band. I mean, I love them. I was just listening to them. There's one. They have a big song, the big hit what I got, yep, what I got. So mine is and this is our generational difference the Beatles. You know, everything I did and all the music I listened to came from that. So I've talked about that before. So enough of that, and that's about it for us today on Founders Forum. So thanks for being here, thanks for listening to my story today and, Ryan, thanks for being a great interviewer and a great guest, and we'll continue Anytime.
Ryan Sullivan:Thanks for having me.
