The Other Side of Fear
The most important life hack you'll need: A Holistic Guide to Get You Unstuck.
Self improvement topics covering mental health, trauma, limiting beliefs, mindset, spirituality, energy healing, mindfulness, and purpose.
The Other Side of Fear explores thought provoking stories about the types of fears that are triggered by our individual insecurities, conditioning and traumas. We examine the role of societal conventions and how they function as a strong determinant, in how we often choose to address our most personal struggles.
Our guests discuss how they navigate through various challenges, while taking ownership of their true desires. Giving you a gentle push, to live in a way that honors your authenticity. What does it mean to lean into fear? How can we recreate our stories and embrace the unknown? What does the other side of fear look like for you?
This is a reminder that, your fears are as big and as scary as you allow them to be. Your purpose is greater than the fear that hinders you.
Are you ready to unlearn and undo the old programs and reconnect with your truth?
The Other Side of Fear
The Four Things Men Lack & Aligning Our Actions with Our Values | with Alain Dumonceaux
Key Takeaways:
- The importance of differentiating between our true values, versus borrowed values.
- In order for us to develop to our full potential, a change of environment is necessary.
- 'Root Cause Analysis' and the *5 Why’s* technique, as an effective tool to guide us to the true source of our thoughts, feelings and actions.
When Alain Dumonceaux, a culinary Olympic silver medalist, encountered a storm of personal challenges—from the peaks of professional achievement to the valleys of new fatherhood and financial woes—his journey became a mirror for us all. His candid storytelling reveals the stark reality of how our self-perceptions are often misaligned with the truth, urging listeners to confront their fears and behaviors at the deepest levels. As we unpack Alain's decade-long voyage of self-discovery, we also offer you a guide to crafting your own personal purpose statement, and the life-changing effects of aligning your day-to-day actions with your innermost values.
Balancing the pillars of a successful life is no small feat. Men, in particular, will find solace in Alain's integrity challenge—24 probing questions designed to reflect upon and harmonize six critical areas of life. From managing the tightrope walk between professional commitments and family life to embracing vulnerability in relationships, Alain speaks on the art of communication and the power it holds in revolutionizing our personal interactions.
We close with a heartfelt conversation on the resonance of community support and the importance of introspection in personal growth. By sharing experiences from establishing a men's group in Winnipeg, Manitoba, to navigating the complexity of fatherhood and beyond, we underscore the significance of presence and wisdom in our lives. Whether you're seeking unity in a divided world or wisdom through reflection and experience, this episode is a clarion call to men and women alike to step into leadership roles within their communities, confront their deepest fears, and embrace the transformative journey toward self-realization.
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⚠ HEALTH DISCLAIMER ⚠
All health and mental health topics within the content of this body of work are for informational, discussion, reflective, and entertainment purposes only. The contents of this work are not intended to be a substitute for medical or professional advice, diagnosis, or treatment.
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In this conversation with . He had so many insightful things to say about our values and why it is important to conduct an assessment of the things we value and what our actions signify in relation to the things we say we value. And to go a bit deeper, this branches off into the way we think and the things we do and why we think and behave in certain ways. So Alain mentioned a very useful tool that is often utilized by businesses and that is called root cause analysis, which is a method that helps to uncover the fundamental or deep-seated causes of a problem or an occurrence, and the importance of this is that it goes deeper than just putting a band-aid solution on our problems. So, instead of just treating the symptoms of a problem, the purpose is to investigate and analyze the underlying factors that contributed to the problem, so that we can create solutions to effectively address the problem from the root in order to prevent further reoccurrences. Now, one other thing I'd like to highlight about root cause analysis is that there is never any focus given to placing blame on anyone, but the recognition that things are more than what they seem on the surface. There is a cause and effect relationship that needs to be explored. But one more thing here is that there can be more than one root causes to any given problem. So one technique used to get to the root cause or causes is called the five why's approach. And yes, there can be more than five why's. So upon identifying and framing the problem in essence creating a full picture of the situation and all the components and elements involved, you begin to ask some why questions, and for each answer you come up with, you ask another why question, and this can go on for some time, but each time the questions should get deeper until eventually you get to a root cause. So why is this important? What is the relevance of this, you may ask? And that is because root cause analysis is not only exclusive to businesses. It is also a great tool to help us in our personal lives, to help us uncover the truth behind our thoughts and actions and the reoccurring patterns in our lives.
Kertia:There are many root causes to the issues we deal with on a daily basis, and on this podcast we address one major root cause that can be problematic for most of us and that is fear. Now the thing with humans, and I think it's safe to say that most of us want the same thing, which is love to belong, to be valued by our community, and safety. Now, oftentimes, the fears we have around these things that we want so badly is what, ironically, often motivates a lot of our actions. That leads to the creation of a divide among us, which leads to us creating unloving, unsafe experiences for others and, equally, for ourselves. Now, putting that into perspective, I'd like you to take a step back and think about the reoccurring patterns in your life.
Kertia:Think about the unpleasant thoughts or feelings you may have around certain people or situations. Think about the things that are uncomfortable or just too difficult for you to face. Think about the conflicts you have with family members, friends or co-workers. Think about the things you are avoiding right now. Do a root cause analysis and maybe you might just uncover some deep-seated fear you were previously unaware of, among other root causes, of course. Just a food for thought. All right, let's get into this conversation. You mentioned that you are a culinary Olympic silver medalist and you have been through so many challenges, coming from a really high point in your life and experiencing a lot of lows preceding that. What was that like for you and how did you manage it?
Alain:Yeah, great question. You know it was really, while it was an exciting time of my life, it was also a pretty dark time. I came to realize that, while we can be successful in some parts of our life, if we don't really look at how we're living holistically and in totality of our lives, then we struggle, and that's what happened with me. I really struggled with being able to manage a home. I was a new father. My first son was born four months prior to me going to Germany to compete, and so I left a mom, a brand new mom trying to struggle to compete, and so I left a mom brand new mom trying to struggle through that. We were gone for a couple of weeks, but still some of those challenges were there.
Alain:And then, as our lives progressed, another child came along. We bought a home and we just kept piling on things and we weren't ready. I for sure wasn't ready to be a father, although I thought I could do that, and I wasn't ready to be a father although I thought I could do that and I wasn't ready with it. And so what ended up happening is I really started to focus my energies on my work, because it was something I knew I could control and I could manage, but ultimately what that ended up by doing was costing me that marriage and really put me in a tailspin. We lost everything. We lost a home, we lost vehicles. I lost everything. I ended up having to claim bankruptcy.
Alain:And it was at a time in my life where I just felt that really the imposter syndrome really started to come through, as who I thought I was and what was actually happening around me were two very different things. And when I recognized that it took a while for me to really change my perspective about who I am and by a while I mean like 10 years worth of true deep growth and some along that way. Some of those challenges were also on how I was being a father. I struggled with depression for those first five years and hardly saw my children. It was really difficult for them. I'm paying a bit of that price today. I'm sure there's more I could ramble on, but that's a little bit to get us started.
Kertia:You mentioned something there about that concept about who you thought you were versus what was happening around you, what was happening with you. Can you flesh that out a little bit?
Alain:Yeah for sure. So I thought what I was? I thought I was a successful, you know chef. At the time, I thought I was a you know, a successful father. I had a you know, a vibrant marriage, and the reality of it was I was putting very little energy towards the latter two and what ended up by causing was causing. That was because, as I said earlier, I was struggling with how to do that and how to be that, and and unfortunately for my, my wife at the time, she didn't know how to respond either.
Alain:And so we were trying to, we were just treading water, just trying to make things work, and ultimately, when everything started to, when everything finally fell apart, you know, it gave me an opportunity to really look, sit back and I asked myself this question how can somebody be so successful in one pillar of their life, but in the other pillar in their life they cannot. They can be so so far removed. And so I started to do some really deep analysis, and so one of the things I looked at was really diving into what I said that I valued and what my actions said that I valued, and so I went through a value exercise to really assess and say, okay. Well, if I'm saying that my kids and my family are really important, then why am I choosing to do something else? And that's when I realized that it was really fear-based. I didn't have answers and at the time, being a young man in my mid-20s, I also didn't have the mentors around to help me.
Alain:We moved from one province we're in Canada here so we moved from Saskatchewan to Manitoba and we were trying to make it on our own and ultimately, I think that really was challenging for us, challenging for me for sure, with the pressures of career and the pressures of family life coming on board and so doing the values work really helped me to get a start, to get a handle on what was actually happening with me.
Alain:And then I was also. It also revealed a lot of limiting beliefs that I had about myself. Really, it's the, the stories that I had wrapped those values around, that that in order to be you know, in order for me to be successful, then I needed to put in all this extra time, and all at the cost of my family, not really understanding that, yes, I could still put in a lot of time, but when I was at home, could I be more present? How could I support what was happening at home? How could I have better conversations, even have a conversation about what was going on at home, instead of not doing that and being a typical, you know father? You would see on the old TV father, come home, sit on the couch, archie Bunker type stuff, not really engaged in my personal life.
Kertia:Yeah, I totally get that and as a mom myself, I totally get when you're trying to balance different aspects of yourself. When it relates to you as a career person, as a parent, as a husband. There are so many roles that you need to balance. What were some of the fears that came up for you as a career man and a family man?
Alain:Yeah, the biggest fear for me was not being able to support my family, and so all I thought of is how do I keep this ship afloat? We were struggling financially immensely. You've got to remember this was in the mid-'90s. This isn't being in the culinary field. Back then you weren't making great dollars, even as chefs. You weren't making really big dollars unless you were in a prestigious hotel or a large event space, and I hadn't been at that level just yet, and so I was really struggling with balancing and managing that.
Alain:Yet still being able to provide for for the family and so taking on other jobs to help, to help support what the family needed, was really important. The other part was also trying to figure out you know what, what was, how do was also trying to figure out you know what, what was, how do we keep the kids in the activities? You know, one of the things I always give kudos to and still do to my to my ex-wife, is that she always made sure that the kids, the boys, were doing something, involved in something, and that's again more time. Financially, it's a it's pressure as well, but, as you know, after the divorce happened, separation it was something that took a while for me to really wrap my head around and to become you know okay. With what was that, what was happening? And helping them, helping her, support them as best as I could, as opposed to having them not be participating in anything and then giving them that so much idle time, and so those were a couple of things. For sure, that were big challenges.
Kertia:You mentioned something earlier about a value system. What is that value system that assisted you in getting through all of that?
Alain:Yeah, basically I came across this values exercise. So I'm trained in NLP and timelines therapy, and so one of the exercises I learned through my NLP training was doing a hierarchy of values exercise, and really what it is is you're taking you can find any of these lists on the internet but the list of words that describe what a potential value are, and you write them down and so I put them into a five column, five different columns, and I start to group them. There's no right or wrong way to do this. Just what resonates is that, as I start to put them through, anywhere between five to six words per column, and then, after doing that, then it was a, then it's a measurement between each one.
Alain:So so, within each column, let's say, I said that I valued success being financial, in business and my personal life. So what is more important in those three? So I would measure it against well, I wanted to be financially successful is more important than having business success. Okay, so now that would be the next level. Then I compare that to well, what's more important being financially successful versus having a successful family life? And I'll slowly start to distill it down to one word that would complete that column. Ultimately, I came up with five words, five descriptions of what I valued. Then I write a purpose statement based on utilizing those.
Alain:They may be in the actual words in that statement, or it's a summary that brings it all together once I did that work and I looked at what it said, then I could say that I could challenge myself and say am I truly living up to this, to that?
Alain:what I say, this is how, what I value yeah and then when I recognize, well, I'm not really living up to it in this aspect. So, from a family perspective, I wasn't. I needed to improve on this. From a relationship perspective, I needed to do this. From business, I needed to do this. So what that did now is it gave me a framework to start to incorporate. Okay, this value statement was true for me. Now it's about aligning my actions with it, and so it gave me more intent, more purpose about how to move forward, as opposed to just stating that I liked that. This is what I say I value, but I'm not really putting any intention behind it. So it brings it into a sharper focus for me and it lets me know when I'm on track and when I'm off track.
Kertia:That's a really good tool, because when you write something down it helps to kind of bring clarity to what it is that truly matters to you, to what it is that you truly value. And then when you can connect with what you are writing or what you've written down, then that kind of develops into a certain level of alignment with what it is that you want, who you are and what your purpose is. So I like that. That's a really good tool.
Alain:Yeah, and in our work here with the Awakened man, our motto is about living a life of purpose.
Alain:So we know what we want to do and on purpose meaning, we have intention behind it. It all starts with aligning our values with with whom we say we want to become, and it's the other piece that I really needed to take, to really understand and take ownership for is I really? When everything was falling apart around me, I recognized that well, I'm here because of the decisions and the actions that I've taken. It has really nothing to do with my partner or anything else is going on. I'm here because these are my decisions, these are my actions, and so as soon as I could own that, you know, then I could stop the blame game right. And so then, once I started to own where I was, then I could also own who I was. Well, I'm that guy. Nobody forced me to make these decisions. These are decisions that I made on my own, consciously or unconsciously, and ultimately, after doing the values exercise, then I could take responsibility for who I aspired to become, because now I have a bit of a roadmap.
Alain:I have a statement that says this is who I want to become, and because it's embedded with values.
Alain:And the interesting thing about that exercise is it's not a one and done thing. It's something you do regularly, and so one of the things that I encourage folks to do is to do that exercise at least annually. It's a great time of year I'm not sure when the episode will air, but we're coming close to the end of a calendar year here. What a great tool and assessment for yourself to sit to structure yourself and get it set up for the upcoming year, and what are those things that you aspire to become and what values do you need in order to develop or to lean into in order to achieve that. And then you can measure. You have something you can go back and measure on a regular basis. We we like to do it quarterly. It gives us opportunity to grow and change fine-tune, and then you can reflect and do an assessment test on it. So I think those are really key pieces and it's what really helped me to pivot and change my life.
Kertia:That is really cool and I think what you said there is really really important. It's not a one and done thing. This is something that you can keep going back to. You can keep changing it. Certain things might change. Maybe something that you thought was important is no longer important to you Six months from now. You could re-clarify those values and refocus on the things that matters most. So I like that. This is a really good tool. You are the host of the Revolutionary man podcast and you talk about a lot of challenges that men face aligning with their purpose, really just kind of get into that stage of fulfillment and being the best that they can be right.
Alain:Absolutely.
Alain:You know, I started the Revolutionary man podcast because I wanted an opportunity for other men, other people, to hear that we all are on our own hero's journey, our hero's quest and we call it a hero's quest here and I get this opportunity.
Alain:We start the show with somebody telling about their transition, that moment in time when they knew things had to change, and how that shaped them, because it's in those moments that we really truly find out what we're made of and who we are. And we might not always like that answer, but it's such a great opportunity for us to lean into understanding what that is, to take responsibility and ownership for it and to make a change and to say enough is enough and to make that shift. And so the podcast is about that, and we like to get into tools and strategies that my guests are using and how it's shaping their lives for themselves and people they work with. And I think people get a lot of it because it's average, ordinary people. It's not some celebrity maybe one day that's the case but I really like the idea of speaking with average, everyday people because that's that's who I see myself as.
Kertia:I'm just an ordinary guy working towards living an extraordinary life yeah, and going back to what you said a little bit earlier when you were speaking about the different areas of life and aligning those values, you doing a podcast like this, what do you find are the biggest challenges for men as it relates to aligning those different areas of their lives the career, the wife, the kids and everything else in between?
Alain:What are the biggest challenges for men? Aligning all of that? Yeah, I'm finding the biggest challenge that we have as men is that we're very analytical and linear in thinking, and so what ends up happening is we focus on one or two aspects of our life. For me it happened to be career, but I work with men whose challenges is they're focused more so on their personal life, yet there makes their professional life, their career, suffering. So they come wondering why their career isn't flourishing. They had figured at this time in their life they were going to be 30 or 40.
Alain:Generally that's around the age from time that I'm working with a little bit older than that as well is that their careers haven't developed but so much energy has been in one aspect of it. So we spend a lot of time. I call it an integrity challenge. It's an opportunity for them. They go through 24 questions evenly dispersed amongst our six pillars.
Alain:We've got financial, we have spiritual pillars. We've got financial, we have spiritual, we have physical, we have professional. You look at their relationships and obviously financial and it's opportunity for them to gauge themselves on where they are sitting and they see quick, pretty quickly, that the area that life is actually pretty good scores, extremely high, because of the energy there and the areas that they're struggling in, things aren't going as well, and so once they have some clarity onto into that and they have some insight, we can start to work towards bringing some time and some energy into those aspects, and not necessarily working on all of them. You know, I don't profess that I think that you work. You work on an air one area and what I find is that rising tide lifts all ships and so other areas start to come in because there's commonality amongst the pieces that are missing in the other, framed in the other circle of uh circle of life.
Kertia:So yeah, I totally get that. Um. I spoke to someone recently and they um pointed out that sometimes when we feel stressed and overwhelmed, it's not because we don't have enough time, it's the energy right. We're not pouring enough energy into the things that matters, in the things that are in alignment with who we are right, in the things that are truly important for us. You know, your energy is kind of scattered everywhere else or you put in too much energy on one aspect of your life, of course.
Kertia:So I know most of us feel like, oh, there's not enough time for this, there's not enough time to spend with my wife, there's not enough time to play with my kids, right. But he was so great in explaining this better than I am and really structuring your life. When it's work, this is work. You prioritize those hours for work and that is completely different from family time. One doesn't leak into the next and vice versa, and that always determines the outcome that you have. The outcome that you have for work, the outcome you have for making your wife feel loved and cared for, the outcome that you have connecting with your children, right, having that really good structure where you have everything prioritized and in its place and not allowing them to interfere with each other.
Alain:Yeah, I really love what the word you're using there. You're using the word outcome and that's really a great thing for us to remember what is the outcome that I'm wanting to achieve with this piece. You know, this part of this pillar in my life and one of the things we talk also about is this idea of work life balance. People think of that as like a teeter totter and that it needs to be always level, even, but that's not really how life works. At different times in our lives, that teeter totter is going to go up and down, just like it should.
Alain:The difference is is that when you're consciously aware of what's happening in your life, you can have the conversations with your wife, with your children, with your family, to say that, hey, dad's really busy here. I have a major project that needs to get done. I'm going to need to dedicate all of Saturday to work on it, but I promise that come Saturday night we're going to go to a movie, we're going to do something, and then you commit to that. You commit to that piece so the family understands. You know you're communicating about where you're at, you're not just assuming and that was a challenge in my first, with my first marriage and, you know, with my ex-wife, then is that lots of things. We took a lot of things for granted both of us, but this is a story about me and Mike only own where I fell down, and where I fell down is that took a lot of things for granted, and instead of having a communication and speaking like we're doing today and having everyone understand.
Alain:It doesn't mean anybody ever is happy all the time about hearing that, but it goes a long way. And as long as we own our commitments you know we get off the when we say we're going to be done then you'll find that your, your, your family is much more supportive. Your friends are more supportive. Even work will be more supportive and understand where you're coming from and you have that, that truly that balance of being able to go with the ebb and flow of life and be able to then to execute it at the highest level possible.
Kertia:Yes, exactly, and I love that you mentioned that communication, effective communication. To be more precise, how does all of this tie into what you said about taking responsibility and taking purposeful action?
Alain:Yeah, great question. No, it ties in because once we understand when there's something, that there's a challenge or something not working well in our lives, we can go back and look at from an assessment of an inside out. What is it that I have? What part did I play in this current scenario and how could I have played my part differently Not necessarily better, but differently in order to achieve a different outcome?
Alain:and once we start from that perspective and we continue to own that, assuming that that this is things that all I'll take care of, everything that I can control, we start to see things shift and change. Maybe not immediately, and I find working with men sometimes we're a bit impatient. We want to see this changes. Guys who struggle who haven't had a crucial conversation that, as I call them, with their partner, their spouse, and they have things that are that are bothering them, and so instead what they do is they stop it. We're pretty good at stuffing things down and then we blow up and instead it's about having that taking the opportunity. But well, listen, I listen. I haven't really explained to my wife the challenges that I'm having, some of the things that are going on, and it's going to be scary because now I'm going to make I have to allow myself to be vulnerable enough that she may not be ready to hear what I have to say.
Alain:It doesn't mean that what you're saying is being disrespectful. I coach my men to always be respectful, reminding them that this is the woman that you've chose to spend your life with. So how can you bring across the message that you need to bring across and keep her whole and the relationship whole? It's going to be messy, guys. It's going to be messy because we're not used to doing this. And then, as we practice and I also encourage them to say that listen, I need to.
Alain:You know, if it was our conversation, kershia, I'd say you know, I really have to say something. Kershia, I can't promise that it's going to come over and come across great, but please, you know, do what you can to hear me out and then go forth. And I think you find that when you come in and you you frame it in that in that way, you give an opportunity for your partner to to be open to hearing as best as she can be at the time, to hear what you have to say, to be able to have a conversation, and then that really helps. It helps move the relationship forward. And, trust me, guys, when you start to do that kind of work, that kind of communicating, things change. She didn't change much yet.
Alain:She saw you modeling a different way of being, and that's what is the attractive piece. That's what the part is about. Hey, I know there's a reason why I picked that guy. There's something there. He's finally seeing it finally seeing it.
Kertia:You know, when you were speaking about the taking responsibility part of that, I was thinking it is so hard to take responsibility, especially when that vulnerability aspect comes in, because there are so many fears and limiting beliefs involved in that right. So sometimes I feel like maybe it's not that we do not want to take the responsibility, but more so that we avoid it because it is so scary to kind of bare our souls. You know, like speaking I'm a woman, but even for me it's the same thing, right, I think this goes for anybody. Right, you're speaking from a man's perspective, but I think it applies to also females.
Kertia:Right, speaking your truth, being vulnerable, being open, communicating, saying how you feel you know, admitting your mistakes it doesn't come easy for men or women a lot of the times, because sometimes it's hard to show certain parts of ourselves. Sometimes we haven't even reconciled with ourselves those parts of ourselves, right, the parts that we are probably not proud of, the parts that you know we might perceive as being shameful or not enough or not deserving, even experiencing emotions like, maybe guilt, and there are just so many things inside of that. So how do we take responsibility when we are dealing with all of those things, the fears, the limiting beliefs. How do we get from point A to point B in order to be able to fully express ourselves and communicate and ask for help, if we need help and say that, hey, this is not working out for me because of so, so and so, or you know what I mean. Like, how do we do that so that we can proper take responsibility? Because then, when we're able to do that, we're able to get more in alignment, right?
Alain:Yeah, I completely agree. And just to build on what you said, absolutely, because my work focuses on men, obviously I come from that perspective, but women as well. We all have challenges in being vulnerable or allowing ourselves to be vulnerable enough, and what I learned about human beings is that, based on the stories and the history that we have, we've shaped ourselves into a certain way that we think about something, and that's where our limiting beliefs come up play, play. And so what I would say is I wouldn't start with the biggest topic on the table in your relationship. That's probably not the wisest thing to do because, as I said, it's going to be pretty messy but to take something that's much smaller and and I would actually, and the smallest part of that would be just saying what we're talking about today. No, actually, and the smallest part of that would be just saying what we're talking about today. You know, I would like to try having a different, a different way that we communicate and when something that that is bothering us, a small thing that's bothering us, that we take this opportunity to practice speaking and communicating. And so one of the things that I teach men as I teach them I'm sure you've heard it, heard about it, your travels, but this idea of these five different levels of intimacy, and it's all about communication.
Alain:And the first level is safe communication. That's where many of us stay, right, when we stay in this safe communication, we don't have to worry about being, about putting ourselves out there, and the thing is that it keeps us. We can guard ourselves, protect ourselves, because we're not really making a commitment. So we stay in that place. If we're brave enough, we're going to go to the next one and what we'll do is we're going to utter and talk about other people's opinions. Hey, we're opening up the door a little bit here, but guess what? It's not my opinion. Hey, it's what Kirsha said. So this is what I. I think is that you know, I'm just passing it along, and so we're still kind of safe. We haven't allowed ourselves to really express our heart.
Alain:And so then the third stage, getting even more open, and I was talking about having our personal opinion. But guess what, when I express my personal opinion, I can always change that, because guess what? Life changes, something comes along, and so I'm still, I'm committing, but not really. And what I really work with folks is to really get into these next two stages and as much as possibly in stage four. And the stage four is my feelings and my experiences. So, just as we started this whole conversation here this evening, talking about my experiences and my feelings being vulnerable enough to share, to know that potentially it may not, my partner may not understand that, but it gives them a glimpse into what's the inner workings of what's going on, because all they've seen is this reactionary piece of me and ultimately we can get to that point of the last level, highest level, and that's really about expressing my needs. And so, starting with something simple, it could be as simple as who's making dinner this evening and deciding on how that and how that's happening, and maybe somebody's home first more often than the other person, but to be safe enough to say for that person, who's first, who's home first and maybe hasn't been consistently preparing food and that was an assumption that was to happen that you can have that conversation about.
Alain:Hey, when I get home from work, work is really draining for me mentally, you know, maybe now you understand a little bit about yourself. I'm an introvert and so my energy is recharged not by being around other people. I need some downtime. I need about half an hour, I need 45 minutes. It's not that I don't love you or care for you, I just need this time. When I get this time, then my energies are or my batteries are recharged and now I can participate.
Alain:See, I've been totally expressing my needs and wants for this, for this particular thing, something as simple as who's making dinner this evening, and because we understand that about you, understand that about me. Now it's a different mindset when you walk in the door coming in later, about an hour later, and things aren't ready or they haven't started. Because it's not that I don't care about you, it's about I'm having some self-care and I'm a big believer in I'll take care of me so I can take care of us. Not that I'll take care of you so you'll take care of me. There's lots of different mindsets on that, but I'm a big believer in I'll take care of me so I can take care of us. Because, especially when we talk about relationships, it's a, especially when we talk about relationships, it's a we relationship, and so to get there, we have to take care of ourselves, our own stuff, so we can show up. You know as uh, as best that we can exactly self-care.
Kertia:It's definitely not a selfish act. We can't pour into others if we haven't first poured into ourselves. Right, we can't pour from an empty cup, as they say. So that is definitely true. Self-care is very important. You mentioned that there are four things that men lack. What are those things?
Alain:Absolutely. One of the first things that I recognize this is how I came across in doing my work is that the first thing that we lack is commitment Commitment to who we are as men, what we are here to do. It's really about understanding what is my why, why do I get up every day? Why am I going to do something? So we lack a commitment to who we are. The second thing that we lack is we lack clarity on that. Okay, maybe I understand what my why is, but I really haven't dived into understanding the nuances of what makes that work, and so one of the things that I asked my guys to do is to complete this sentence I'm the kind of man who you can change that for women as well and then whatever you put after that is a statement about who you are becoming, and it puts us in alignment with it, should put us in alignment with our why, and so, once we're clear, we're clear that we have, we've got some commitment now, because I'm showing up with with who I describe myself as to be now.
Alain:Now I need a compass, I need somewhere to focus that energy on, and that's really about the third step that I ask guys to do is to prepare a compelling vision statement. It's their true North Star. It's who they ultimately aspire to become. It may be something we never get to, but it's our vision of who we are as men.
Alain:And the last thing that we lack is we lack a community. We all have friends, right, we have a circle of friends, but I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about a community where there's people that you can pick up the phone, no matter what's going on in your life, and you know that they will pick it up and they have your back. It doesn't mean that they support you 100% in all your decisions, but they're there to have your back. And men especially, we tend to have this lone wolf idea that we have to do it ourselves, and so when we don't have a community to help lift us up, get us back on the right track, then we tend to struggle in life, and so those are the things that I found that lacked in my life, and I'm finding more and more is the same thing for other men.
Kertia:You know, in this world, with the standards that we have for men, both men and women, and especially right now we're talking about men, the standards that we have, it is so sometimes it is just so debilitating to someone's manhood right, how would you advise someone to go about seeking a community? Because I can't assume that you know everyone has that best friend or that mentor or great family members that are always there for them. How can someone seek a community, a supportive community?
Alain:Yeah, that's a great question. There's lots of. In today's environment, with social media and forums, there's a forum for just about anything. That's a forum for just about anything. That's a great place to start. I wouldn't necessarily say that that's going to be your final spot to rest, but it's a great place to start.
Alain:And because I focus on the men's aspect of life and helping them out, men's work is becoming much more popular and more and more communities are popping up around the world and you might not have one right in your town. We didn't have one here. I'm in Winnipeg, manitoba. There wasn't any men's community. There is today because I found that there was a lack of community here for men to be able to come in and be supportive. So it's out there.
Alain:Would suggest you know, looking at, I said, some forums and some communities on through facebook and other social media to get started. But really reach out and you know, if you're, if you have a strong faith, ask your pastor. There's lots of. There's lots of churches that have men's groups. If that's not your jam, that's's fine. Look at the wellness aspects. There's lots of different wellness communities. They're going to have people that will be able to point you in the right direction, or folks that are focusing on wellness and, believe it or not, even within hospice and hospital sessions.
Alain:I actually because I advertise in a local wellness newspaper here have been getting calls from hospitals believe it or not who have clients there that are men that are struggling with things, and my heart was really warmed when that call came because it was one of the things that I was struggling just a few years back when my father-in-law passed and he was like, uh, he was wasn't like a dad to me, he was like a best buddy, and we hung out, you know, pretty much every weekend, did stuff together and and when I found him, um hadn't yet passed away it really shook me and I needed to have that place to go, and grief counseling didn't quite make it for me. I did a few of those sessions, but I really needed something more. And so there's lots of different ways that you can find support for the work you feel you need to do or need some answers. You just Google men's work. You're going to find stuff popping up all over the place.
Kertia:Today, yeah, that's a really good tip, thank you. You mentioned your relationship with your dad, you guys being buddies, right, and it made me think back to this question as to because, of course, this topic and everything that, all the work that you're doing, it goes back to one foundation, right? And how can men nurture their boys so that they can grow up to have that connection to themselves, so that they are better able to identify those internal things that is happening within them, so that they are able to also not only recognize it but acknowledge it and embrace the vulnerability and the honesty and the accountability that it takes to address that, so that they can develop?
Alain:Yeah, great question. I think that all starts with you have to be doing your own work first really to understand what's going on. And what I mean by that is it doesn't mean you have to run out and, you know, do a bunch of therapy sessions before you get involved in your, in your children's, lives. What I'm suggesting is think back to how you grow up and what are the things that were missing in your life as a child at that age, at that, at that at your, at your son or your daughter's age, what were the things that were missing and that you would have appreciated and would have liked to have? And when you start from that perspective, then you can implement plans to change how you are. And that means I'm asking you to be much more present than any of our fathers could have been.
Alain:I'm the oldest of five. My dad worked extremely hard to keep a roof over our head. You know, bills paid, everything. We didn't have a lot growing up, but we always knew that we would be like I said. We had.
Alain:We were fed and we had a roof over our head, but we didn't have a close relationship with my father, my, my dad. I didn't have a close relationship because I didn't know how to do that, and I think today there's really no excuse for us to not have closer relationships and how to have a conversation, and so what I would propose is that, you know, one of the things I learned with my father-in-law who really, like I said, became really a buddy with me we were buddies is that you know, we'd go on road trips down to minneapolis to watch the yankees because that's his favorite baseball team and that's an eight hour drive for us. I'd have eight hours in the car to spend time talking to him about whatever. Maybe I'm listening to a book on on there and you know he'd say, ah, that's a bunch of bs. And well, why do you think that dad and we could have a conversation about life and so get understanding about how did he come to under to believe that?
Alain:and and it's those opportunities that that really showed me that I'm more present with my children, then I can get a better understanding of of how they're thinking, what they're doing and then the other thing I would suggest is always be mindful that you're not trying to live your life through your kids, especially here in canada, with lots of hockey and all that, and sometimes we think that you know the gory days.
Alain:I didn't quite make it to the big show, so I'm pushing my kids to go a little harder than they need to. Let's face it today's day and age, these kids are playing hockey 12 months of the year. That's great if they love it, but if they don't love it, who are you living this for? Is it for you, is it for them? And so, to really be present and conscious about what's happening and and ultimately, what that means is we touched on this earlier is when work day is over, it's over. You know, don't go to the hockey game, the basketball game, the whatever activity the kids are doing, and your head's down on the phone for the whole thing. Be present, be there. They notice that. They notice.
Alain:They will notice what we do far more than they will do what we say yeah so it's really about modeling how we want to be, and especially those of us that I don't have daughters. I have two sons, but you know, if I raised a daughter, my with, with where, things and all the work that I'm doing today, it would be really how am I? What am I modeling? My voice in showing them how I treat their mom, because that's how I want them to treat their wives, their girlfriends. They're the people that are important in their life and if they see you showing care and compassion and supportive, it's a much different. And don't kid yourself, even at three and five years old, they still see it, they sense it, they know what's going on and that, how we show up in those moments, in those quiet moments, it really speaks loudly about how they will ultimately grow up and show themselves to the world.
Kertia:Absolutely. You made so many great points there and I think where a lot of us kind of struggle with that is so many of us we think that we can copy and paste parenting. You know, we do what our parents did and we apply the same rules and the same expectations and all that stuff, and it's just like it doesn't work that way.
Alain:I wish it did, but it doesn't.
Kertia:It doesn't work that way. Our parents are, we're human. They're human too, and they made some mistakes as well. And I said this before to someone not because they did it that way, it doesn't mean that there isn't a better way to do it, you know. It doesn't mean that it was right, and even if it was okay enough, it doesn't mean that there isn't a better way to do it. You know, it doesn't mean that it was right, and even if it was okay enough, it doesn't mean that there isn't a better way to do it. So I really love that. You really touched on that.
Kertia:You know not putting your own dreams and aspirations on your children. Completely being present, presence is such a huge thing because it's so easy to get distracted by everything, by all the stresses and responsibilities that we have going on with us. But, as I said earlier, you know, having that structure and when you know that you're unable to, then that is where conversation and communication comes in, where it's just like I really can't. But if you're going to say like this is the time that I'm going to, you know, put towards this thing, then you stick to that and you commit to that. Right and touches on one of the things that you said. Men have an issue with commitment.
Alain:I tell you we sure do. I just think about how much you know I. I said I'm the oldest of five and I see how my parents raised me and then, and then the baby of the family, like he's 12 years, I guess, younger than I am, at least. I just said I never got away with that stuff. That's just because they evolved and they grew and, truth, truthfully, my brother and I wore them out, so they retired after that. We do struggle with commitment. We just don't like to do that, for whatever reason. I still haven't quite figured out why. But let me tell you, once they do commit though, you know we're all in, and if I can get guys to get all in on their life, you know, and in all aspects of it, you know this world be a much better place yeah, definitely I love that.
Kertia:I love it. Um. You mentioned um and what I've read about you so far about wisdom and connecting wisdom to your purpose. What do you mean by that?
Alain:Well, I think the big thing for me with wisdom is really the idea of unlearning. You know, there's a Zen saying it's not quite unlearning, but it's about learning something new every day, and I always look at wisdom as that idea of unlearning. We talked about a cup being full, right, and so when we're living our purpose, we can live our purpose and gain wisdom through three different ways. Right, the first way we can do that is through reflection, and I'm a big fan of that. To me, reflection is so powerful. It's because we get an opportunity to recenter ourselves, realign ourselves to what's happening, and I think Buddha said that was the noblest of the three. Right, because you're truly spending time, buddha, or Confucius, one of those guys out east. And then the second really is about imitating.
Alain:Let's face it, that's how we get through life. Right, we learn through doing and doing things that we learn from other people, and so we're imitating that work and then we're refining it, and so that's a pretty good way to do it, and it's fairly easy. You know, you're not really having to go from scratch because you're going to imitate it. But I'll tell you one of the most powerful ways to gain wisdom, although it can be the bitterest.
Alain:Attach it to our vision and our purpose in life that the moment that we decide to lean into something, we're going to make mistakes, and it's through those experiences, when we make mistakes, that our wisdom grows. We get an opportunity to learn something, get aha moments, because if we're truly not going through the quagmire of life and failing for lack of a better term we never truly understand what we can ultimately become. And so, as we know, a diamond is formed under immense pressure. And so how can you become that diamond cutter and truly reform and forge yourself into the being, the person that you ultimately wish to become, if you're not willing to lean into experience and wisdom and gain that from our lives?
Kertia:I like that you described that last one as the bitterest, because when you're learning life lessons, you know reframing those failures as lessons. It's challenging, right. It is bitter, it doesn't feel good, it doesn't look good, it doesn't feel good, nothing about it seems good, but it is how we learn, it is how we grow.
Alain:So I like that you call it the bitterest well, you know, you'll learn that, especially as I learned it anyways, doing that value exercise I was talking about earlier, because what we, what I have discovered, many folks discover when they do this is what we thought we valued did serve us at some point, and so the bitterness comes from when we recognize that this particular value no longer serves me.
Alain:So the value of of being successful for me was being successful in business, climbing the proverbial corporate ladder, and while that served me early in my in my career, it ultimately it cost me so much, and so that lesson was then, you know, was really loud and clear about what do I truly value? And is this one? Does this serve me any longer? Because I had competed in the Olympics, I won some medals and that was great, but does this truly serve me any longer? And while I still have a passion to succeed in anything that I do, I do it now with more consciousness and much more intention, because there's other things that are important in my life too. It's not an all or nothing proposition any longer, like it used to be, and so it can be very bitter. It's like sucking on that lemon.
Kertia:It's a little bit tart, yeah. And you know what? The truth is, that sometimes our value system is out of whack. Sometimes it is out of whack, sometimes you kind of need to throw it away and like redo the whole thing. And that is why the exercise you pointed out earlier is such a good tool, because when you kind of can write things down and pinpoint what makes sense and what doesn't make sense and what truly represents what's inside of you, because you know a lot of the things that we are taught to value, those are things that someone else told us right, our parents told us, our teachers told us, institutions told us, society told us right.
Kertia:So a lot of the things that we are told, a lot of things that we value, we were told by someone else that these are the things that we should value, and so at some point you kind of have to learn how to cancel all of that. Try to figure out what truly is important to you. Does this make sense, while they say that this career is good? Is it really? Is that really what I want? Does this really interest me? Does this really? Is this really in my best interest?
Alain:Exactly, and that's a great point that you bring up. There is that a lot of times, what we find when we do a value assessment, they are borrowed. And what I mean by that is just what you said they're borrowed from somebody else. Do I value this? Because that, just what you said they're borrowed from somebody else, is this? Do I value this because that's what I truly want, or that because my parents wanted me to be a doctor? You know, whatever it is that you want to do, and so when we assess ourselves and we look at that exercise and we say that this is truly what I want and these are and these are the steps I'm going to take towards, then you can own it. But but the challenge and you asked earlier about, why do we struggle the frame in and around, why we struggle to take ownership and how do we do that? It's because, more than just taking ownership may mean you need to change your circle of friends. It may mean some people are going to leave your life because you're in a different place. It doesn't mean I'm not saying in this interview here that you know you're going to do this exercise and go. Well, that's it. People are all gone, man. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is you need to assess where you're at with things, and you just may find that there's other where you had time, maybe, to go to the bar with your buddies every weekend. That just isn't as important anymore, and so maybe that's every other weekend or it's once a month, but you do it with compassion and with care and you have that conversation.
Alain:One of the virtues we have in our work is brotherhood, and one of the exercises I ask the guys to go through is that. One of the things that's really bad for men is that when we end a relationship with another guy, it just gets cut off. There's no conversation, there's nothing. They don't have a hot clue. You don't have a hot clue why a relationship ended, and so what I ask them to do is to reach out to somebody that they haven't spoken to in at least five years and talk to them about where you're at and why you haven't spoke with them, because they and talk to them about where you're at and why you haven't spoke with them, because they don't know. They have their own idea, and the power behind that is that we get an opportunity to see that our values and our lives have changed and so has theirs, and maybe there's an opportunity to reconnect and maybe there isn't, and that's okay, but it gives an opportunity for us to really find out who those people are that can start to form our community. It could be within a men's group or a different group, but that's another way to really find that community those people that you can pick up the phone and know that they're going to have your back and they're going to be there. That you can pick up the phone and know that they're going to have your back and they're going to be there, and uh, and so I think that's really really key in how we grow and evolve as uh, you know, as communities in general.
Alain:Right, there's so much divisiveness today. You know it's either, you know, depending whether it's a political spectrum or what have you. It seems like we're divided all the time, and the reality of it is is that we're not that much different. You and I, we get up every morning with the same desires to live a happy, healthy life, you know, to live as fulfilled as we can if we have children, to raise happy and healthy children as best that we can. We all have the same common goals.
Alain:But today's world is so easy to to be divisive and separate us and let outside influences dictate who we are as individuals, as communities, and we need to stop doing that. We need to stop doing that. Just men need to stop doing that and start taking leadership roles in their families and in their communities, and just as well as as women as well, to be able to be in that and lean into their, to their power as well, and I think when we do that, we can take control of our lives in a much more powerful state than we're doing today. Sorry, political rant there.
Kertia:I love that. Absolutely correct. I agree with everything you just said. That was, yeah, so much truth in that.
Kertia:And what stood out to me when you were speaking about the friends and the people that we associate with, I began to think that may be a part of, sometimes, why it is so hard to reassess our values, reassess what we truly do want. Reassess our values, reassess what we truly do want. Or maybe, if we truly know what we want, we are just afraid to take those next steps to get there. Sometimes it's hard to let go. Sometimes it's that fear of letting go, the fear of losing the familiarity, the fear of losing the circle that you're accustomed to, the friends or even family members, right, sometimes, in order to take that next step to where you want to be, sometimes it is necessary to distance yourself from certain habits, from certain people, whether they be relatives or not.
Kertia:That fear in what will this relationship look like if I go left, right, when I know within my hearts of hearts that they're not ready to go left with me? Right? What will that look like? And it's just that fear of letting go of the things and the people that are so familiar to us that has offered us this space of comfort, right? So I think that goes hand in hand with what you just said there, right? Sometimes it is necessary to distance ourselves. It doesn't mean that we no longer love them, we no longer care, but sometimes doing what is necessary for our own development means that we have to let go of some things, whether it be temporary or permanent, right. But it gets so personal, so it's so hard.
Alain:Absolutely, and this you know. Thank you so much for bringing that forward, because you're absolutely right, and that's why doing this work alone is so challenging and difficult and why it's so important to find community, regardless of where you're at, because some of those changes are going to be really painful. Now let me just throw this at you as well. So one of the things that we do in business, we do this thing called root cause analysis, and I've been incorporating it more and more in our work. And what a root cause analysis is is to take a look at a challenge or a problem that you're facing in a process. And so, you know, let's use the example like go back to the example of who's making dinner tonight and you're frustrated about it, and so you're frustrated about why somebody isn't making dinner. So what's the root cause of that? Well, initially we might think well, it's because they don't care for me. Okay. Well, if that's true, why is that important? Well, it's important because I'm dedicating my life to this person and they're not taking care of me. Why is that important? Why is it important that somebody take care of me? Well, if somebody takes care of me, then that means that I'm loved and I'm appreciated Great, so why is it important that you're loved and appreciated? Well, if I'm loved and appreciated, it means that I'm supported Great, so why does it mean that? So why is that important? Why is being supported important to you?
Alain:And ultimately, you get down to a point usually it takes about five asking yourself why five times. And you, you get down to a point usually it takes about five asking yourself why five times? And you'll get to the point of pretty much all the time is that I'm going to be alone and nobody will take care of me. And that, I'm telling you, is a root issue for many of our problems today in society is that we are going to be kicked off the proverbial island. We're going to be left on our own to fend for ourselves, and we don't know if we can make it. The truth of the matter is is that, while you may feel alone, a relationship ends, you know and I've been through that before where it felt like there was just no way I was going to recover. And the truth of the matter is is that we recover and even if you don't have a community, you don't have people around right now to support you. Those people are there ready when you're ready, and so I beg people, I urge people, to truly look at their lives and assess, using a bit of a root cause analysis to find out what's really underlying, and that's what we're trying to uncover. It's not the first piece. It's much deeper than that and ultimately it's going to come around to some.
Alain:Fear is hiding something. Sometimes it can be hiding shame from a past trauma, and so you're protecting yourself from that, and other times it's this fear of being alone and abandoned, which is pretty prevalent in today's society as well. But when we recognize that there that today we've had, there's no shortage of information, there's no short of space for people to be able to plug into that, what it all it takes is for you to reach out. There's somebody there to support you, and so it's really important and key in my heart to try to do whatever I can do to lower the statistics of suicide for men. You know, as you know, the statistics today is that we're five times more likely to commit suicide than women, and the reason for that is that because we'll take a very dramatic step to make it happen, and it's all because there's fear, there's anxiety, there's depression, because we're holding so much inside and we just don't know how to process it. We just don't know how to get through that through the woods. And you get through it by surrounding yourself with men who have been on that path, who are on that path.
Alain:As I always say, we need three different mentors in our life.
Alain:We need somebody to mentor us, someone who's down the path just a little bit further maybe a lot further, but down the path who can guide us towards where we're going.
Alain:Then we need to be a mentor towards where we're going. Then we need to be a mentor. We need to be a mentor to somebody that is coming up and we're the one further down the path. And then, thirdly, we need mentors to be together. So we need brothers and sisters to go together on the journey, because the journey goes. If you want to go fast, go by yourself, as the saying says, and if you want to go far, you go with others. And so I think it's so important that the work that needs to be done in today's world and you know, I know you're doing some great work as well with this podcast and other things just really important that we continue to lean into that and we reshape the vision of a world that works for everyone loved everything you just said, and speaking about that and suicide and um, all those things that come along with with that issue is just that reminder that there's always a community there is.
Kertia:you're not alone. There are others who have faced the same things that you are facing right now. There is someone who have gone through the worst of it all and have found a way to come out of it, and you know you being able to reach out, you know, and ask for help and or ask questions and ask for support, can make such a huge difference. So I love everything that you just said. Thanks, awesome. So can you please tell my followers how they can find you, how they can reach out to you?
Alain:yeah, absolutely so. You can find me on my website at theawakendemannet, and when you go to the website right now, there's a pop-up, and as soon as you show up there and it's on the pop-up, there's an opportunity to get a free workbook. And the workbook is your transformational promise, and so what this workbook does is an opportunity to reflect on how this past year has gone. Now you can do this exercise anytime, but as we're closing out the year, it's an opportunity to reflect, and if you sign up for that, you'll get onto my newsletter. You'll get a lot of other great information On top of that.
Alain:When you sign up for that workbook, you're also going to get another tool that I provide folks. It's a goal assessment tool. It gives an opportunity for you to truly do some of that value exercise. We look at a little bit of teasing, a little bit with limiting beliefs, and then it's an opportunity for you to make some goals based on what your transformational promise will be, and there's also a visioning meditation in there. It's an opportunity for you to do some regular visioning.
Alain:It's something different a lot of guys may not be familiar with, but it's work that I was doing in my on my spiritual journey that I found really helped me in honing in, on understanding the things I needed to let go of in my life, the things I need I should be embracing, I can embrace about my life and to ultimately become the man that I aspire to be, and so it's a great tool, works for anybody. Go to the member, to theawakenmannet, and grab that tool.
Kertia:Thank you so much for sticking it out this far. Now, I'm currently doing a root cause analysis on some of the sticky areas in my life, so if you've decided to try this out, I'd love to hear what you've discovered. Again, thank you so much for listening and thank you so much for your support. If you'd like to support us further, join our Patreon community and share this podcast with your friends and family. Thank you,
