The Other Side of Fear
The most important life hack you'll need: A Holistic Guide to Get You Unstuck.
Self improvement topics covering mental health, trauma, limiting beliefs, mindset, spirituality, energy healing, mindfulness, and purpose.
The Other Side of Fear explores thought provoking stories about the types of fears that are triggered by our individual insecurities, conditioning and traumas. We examine the role of societal conventions and how they function as a strong determinant, in how we often choose to address our most personal struggles.
Our guests discuss how they navigate through various challenges, while taking ownership of their true desires. Giving you a gentle push, to live in a way that honors your authenticity. What does it mean to lean into fear? How can we recreate our stories and embrace the unknown? What does the other side of fear look like for you?
This is a reminder that, your fears are as big and as scary as you allow them to be. Your purpose is greater than the fear that hinders you.
Are you ready to unlearn and undo the old programs and reconnect with your truth?
The Other Side of Fear
Don't Fall into The "Trap" of Spirituality | with Bjorn Lestrud
Key Takeaways:
- When we put others in a box, we equally put ourselves in a box too.
- The benefits of plant medicine and how energy healing opens up more channels to creativity.
- Everyone is inherently spiritual, reconnecting is key- whilst being mindful of spiritual escapism.
Bjorn Lestrud's awakening began with a profound realization while working in corporate, leading him to embrace a path of personal development and spiritual exploration. His journey took an unexpected turn during a serendipitous trip to Tulum, Mexico, where he discovered the transformative power of plant medicine, setting the stage for continuous spiritual growth.
Book Mentioned: The Universal Principles and the Metamorphic Technique: The Keys to Healing and Enlightenment
Bjorn's Socials
Instagram @bjornironside7
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Kertia's Email: discovertheothersidepodcast@gmail.com
⚠ HEALTH DISCLAIMER ⚠
All health and mental health topics within the content of this body of work are for informational, discussion, reflective, and entertainment purposes only. The contents of this work are not intended to be a substitute for medical or professional advice, diagnosis, or treatment.
Always seek the advice and care of qualified healthcare practitioners, with any questions or concerns you may have regarding the condition of your mental health and overall health. Take all advice from your health providers seriously and do not refrain from nor delay seeking medical attention or otherwise professional advice related to your health and wellness.
The Other Side of Fear and its contents does not replace nor does it claim to replace the knowledge, expertise and advice of licensed healthcare professionals. Do not disregard instructions from your healthcare providers because of something you saw or heard on social media or from your favourite creators.
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Hey everyone. So today on the Other Side of Fear podcast, I have today my guest, bjorn Lestrud, who works with people to help them address the energetic blocks they're experiencing, and he facilitates healing through sound and self-expression. He is the founder of Blue Dragon Healing, which is accompanied by the Blue Dragon Healing podcast. So during our conversation he shared a bit of his personal journey with finding and embracing his spiritual path through witnessing the spontaneous healing of a friend's badly hurt toe during his travels in Tulum, mexico, and we also spoke about his experience using plant medicine and the magic that came through for him when he did that. And, to top it all off, he blessed us with some channeled sound healing.
Kertia:This was such a great conversation. I enjoyed it so much. I am so grateful for his presence on the podcast. I hope you enjoy it too. So last time when we spoke, we spoke about the spiritual journey that you were on and how this led to the work that you're doing right now. But I'd love to hear more about, I'd love for you to get into what happened. How did you become open and just reconnected to yourself? All the good stuff.
Bjorn Lestrud:Yeah, I'll definitely get into that, but I would also say that, in terms of spiritual journey, definitely still on one of those. Yeah, of course.
Kertia:It hasn't stopped. Yeah.
Bjorn Lestrud:It has its way with me, all right. Well, it started really with an awakening 10 years before I even started traveling. I had been working in corporate America in sales for a few years and doing really well in terms of how much money I was making, how I was performing at my job and all of that, but struggling with a lot of anxiety and I had high blood pressure. I was very overweight. I was about I think I'm at the maximum. I was about 270 pounds and I finally started to get back into personal development and I was studying Bob Proctor and reading about all this stuff about paradigms and how the mind works, and there was just a breaking point and it happened, not like gradually, there was a moment, so I was in work for the day. Well, I guess first to explain a little bit about the whole bob proctor thing and why it matters and why I brought it up.
Bjorn Lestrud:He has this thing that he well, he's dead now. Rest in peace. But he had this thing he called the stick person concept and it was a mental model for how the mind works. And so it was. You draw a big circle and then put a line through the middle of it and top of that circle represented the conscious mind, the bottom half represent the subconscious, and then there'd be like another little stick and a tiny little circle at the bottom representing the body. So the you know, the mind is like way, way bigger than the body in this diagram.
Bjorn Lestrud:And so he had this program called a success puzzle and one of the pieces it was about paradigms and how we're influenced by patterns and thoughts before we're able to consciously reject them because we're too young, too impressionable. And there was an image with the stick person concept where he had the circle there but the top, like part of the circle was open, there was nothing there and it showed like this baby, basically there, with all the people around them and all the thought forms were just going right into the baby's head.
Kertia:Yeah, yeah.
Bjorn Lestrud:So I, I, I'll, I'll, I'll leave that where it is for now.
Bjorn Lestrud:Yeah, I went to, I was at work and just thinking to myself, you know, I'm like, just think about what the most painful memory in my life is. So I thought about that and I wrote something down. So I thought about that and I wrote something down and then I said what am I most grateful for right now in my life? And so I thought a bit, I wrote something down and then I asked the question would I have this thing that I'm most grateful for if I did not have the experience that I consider to be the most painful? And I realized, no, in fact I would not have it.
Bjorn Lestrud:And so in my mind, what I actually saw in that moment was the image of the stick person with the top missing, flip upside down, and I saw all these thought forms spilling out like just falling out of the head. And as I stood up and I started walking out of the building, um water, you know, tears, but just gushing down my face. But it was so surreal. It wasn't like this feeling that I would get in the past where I'd be sobbing or crying about something.
Bjorn Lestrud:It was just like effortless release, just through my eyes and it was so euphoric and wonderful that I went out and normally I would walk home because I lived downtown and I had a high rise and so my work was close by eight, nine minute walk. But I was so swept up in the moment I walked the wrong direction without even realizing it. I probably went like 20 blocks the wrong way and I was just in such bliss. Of course, from that point on, that really opened my system up and started making me more sensitive to energy. And so the next day, just trying to go into work, as soon as I entered that building, my stomach just hurt so bad and I was like, oh my God, I can't be here anymore.
Bjorn Lestrud:Yeah, so that was a very a beginning and I went through many cycles of stuff. But about 10 or 11 years later I landed in a place called Tulum in Mexico, after I had been traveling the world for about five years. I did not go to Tulum because I was intending to do some sort of spiritual exploration. I had no beliefs or intentions about shamanism or really even about ayahuasca or any, or spirit guides or anything yeah.
Bjorn Lestrud:I mainly went there because I heard it was a cool place, relaxed place to hang out and that it was peak COVID and it was one of the places people had a reputation that people could go and there were fewer restrictions. And that's the environment I wanted to be in was a place with fewer restrictions. So I went there and I had a friend down there Seemed like a good place to go. I was invited so I showed up there and then my friend was there, like I said, and he got into like an accident with his foot and he hurt his toe. It got smashed and it was like super black and blue.
Kertia:Yikes.
Bjorn Lestrud:To the point where anyone who saw his foot, would you know, tell him you know your toenail is going to fall off Right.
Kertia:Yeah.
Bjorn Lestrud:Cause it was so black, you know.
Kertia:Yeah.
Bjorn Lestrud:So I had just seen him two days prior with the black and blue foot and I saw him again and he said look at my foot. I look at his foot and totally normal the whole foot, no discoloration. The toenail, totally normal color. Nothing had fallen off, like it was, like nothing had ever happened. Wow, normal color nothing had fallen off, like it was like nothing had ever happened, wow. So I asked him what, how did this occur? You know, I was fat, pretty fascinated by it, and he said, yeah, he went.
Bjorn Lestrud:He went to an energy healing ceremony called the light portal goodness and so, uh, I was invited to go next week because I did it once a week, so I was too curious to say no at that point, and I witnessed something like that.
Bjorn Lestrud:So I went, and so was this environment, where they had a circle of people around the room, like 15, 20 people, and there were maybe four or five facilitators that were leading us through different healing modalities in one setting. One person had us doing what they called biodynamic breath work, so we were doing open mouth breathing while doing some Qigong slash yoga type movement there was having. They had us sit down, actually lay down on our backs, and they had us continue to breathe. And then there was someone playing drums, someone was chanting, like lots of different things happening at one time. Several practitioners were going around the room like doing physical, like facial release, body work on the participants, looking to release energetic blockages, but, like you know, very physical way, and some people were screaming because it hurts so bad and some people were crying because they were releasing something. It was just. It was a wild environment.
Kertia:Yeah.
Bjorn Lestrud:And so this woman, yeah, and uh. So this woman, uh, you know, she was from this long lineage of Muslim healers. She came up to me and we started working on me and man, I mean, she's a tiny woman, but it hurt a lot when she worked on me and after she left, I started to laugh and I couldn't stop. Left, I started to laugh and I couldn't stop and it was like a release of some kind and it felt really good.
Kertia:Yeah.
Bjorn Lestrud:And I thought to myself maybe I should explore this a little more. Yeah, so I set up a private session with Ina and Jose. They were two of the facilitators there, two of the facilitators there. They did private sessions where, you know, would work on you for about an hour and a half just digging into the fascia and blockages and so forth. And then she came to my apartment and, uh, we did this on the floor, and then her, myself and her partner, jose, would sit there and we sat there and talked for a little bit about what she saw, because she's a seer. Oh, I saw this energy from your father's side, this fear, this anger and this sadness and fear from your mother's side, and I saw this jaguar spirit guide and this Native American shaman spirit guide, and so on and so forth. And then the next part of their private session was meet your guides.
Bjorn Lestrud:Before I explain what happened, though, because that is the culmination of the private session, I'll preface it by saying that, for probably two or three years leading into this, I had been suffering from a sort of an arthritis in my knees, where, whenever I would be sitting, I would have to straighten my legs out within two or three minutes or they would get super stiff. And this was happening all the time, constantly. It was chronic, bothered me a lot. So, anyways, I'm in this private session and now the next part is okay. So we told you about your guides. We told you about the, the, the uh blockages that we found. Now we're going to. You know you can meet your guides.
Bjorn Lestrud:And so Jose served me a plant medicine called hape, which is some people call it shamanic snuff. It's mainly a tobacco product, but it has some other elements to it, plant elements Depending on the hape. There's many kinds, but they're made by the indigenous groups, by the Amazon, and they do prayers over them and they use different elements from nature in them that have psychoactive aspects. It could be ashes from a ceremonial fire and then a lot of times they use the bark from a sunu tree it depends. So they serve me this hape and you take it in the nose right. So when someone serves you hape, they have a what's called a tepe. I actually have one right here.
Bjorn Lestrud:I'll grab it yeah it's looks like this well, they all look a little different, but so if someone is serving you, right, they're basically you're putting it in your nose and then they're blowing it into your nose. Didn't that burn? Oh, yeah, it did. It burned a lot, and uh, so he served me the hot pay. I didn't know what to think. I'd never taken hot pay before.
Kertia:Oh, my God.
Bjorn Lestrud:And then he starts, he gets up and he walks around behind me and starts shaking maracas in my ears, and so all this stuff is happening, but in my mind wants to internalize and process what's going on in the space. But because he's shaking the maracas in my ears, there's too much noise so I can't logically think my way through what's occurring in the room. Oh man, then he starts chanting. I don't know whatever he was chanting, and that started making me feel really activated. And the next thing I know I'm chanting and I can't stop.
Bjorn Lestrud:It was this feeling like some kind of energy was moving through me that I was not really familiar with. Yeah, and it was determined to push its way through and there was a lot of heavy, dense energy that was in the way and it was just, oh man. So it was like you can almost say a traumatic experience for me, but also amazing, but also amazing. And so I I was chanting and then I just got sick on the floor and, um, you know, purged a lot and pretty much had to lay on the floor for three or four hours, didn't even want to get on the couch and lay down, which is right next to me, because I want the floor because I felt more stable. Yeah, that's how dizzy I was.
Kertia:Yeah.
Bjorn Lestrud:But then the next morning, when I woke up, all of the pain from my knees was gone, completely gone, and has not come back since.
Kertia:Wow.
Bjorn Lestrud:And so that was like an initiation, you could perhaps call it.
Kertia:Yeah, what was your reaction?
Bjorn Lestrud:Confusion and delight.
Kertia:Oh, my goodness.
Bjorn Lestrud:So that was a beginning and from there I started working with different plant medicines. I mean, I had been working with Santa Maria, or what people call cannabis, for many years, but in a different way and not really ceremonially. But this ceremonial way of working with a plant medicine was so different to me and so powerful, so I did a session with a medicine called bufo. That um Well, how do I put this? I was Bufo is like, if you're not familiar with it, there was a Simpsons episode a long time ago where they were like licking toads. It has to do with the toad venom or toad secretion.
Kertia:Yeah.
Bjorn Lestrud:So you smoke it generally and the effects are short lived but very, very strong, so usually like 15, 20 minutes maximum. You really are into it. And so I was in a private session to do Bufo. And so they told me you know, inhale, inhale, inhale until we tell you to stop. And basically I inhaled until all the smoke was gone from the thing. It was a long, slow breath. And then they told me when you're done, throw up your arms in the air and then just gently fall back onto the mattress on the floor.
Bjorn Lestrud:So I did it and then when I fell back, I was falling in just a total bliss state. And then, when I fell back, I was falling in just a total bliss state. And then I felt this really sharp pain in the center of my forehead, almost like someone was dinging a fingernail into my head. And then I just saw this explosion of blue light everywhere. And the next thing I know and keep in mind I'm laying in a very, very deep trance, like not moving. Next thing, I know this song just erupts itself through me and I'm singing this song that I've never heard in my life before, song that I've never heard my life, uh, before. And I'm not just singing, but, uh, my voice is going to these very high pitches and very low sounds that I'd never been able to even make before, and it felt so incredible when I was singing, uh, and that was another sort of beginning for me, the beginning of seeing what was possible through voice and through the lineage that I'm a part of.
Kertia:Yeah.
Bjorn Lestrud:And it just sort of kept growing, kept expanding. I would go to ceremonies and then people would want me to chant, they'd want to hear me sing, and it kind of progressed organically. Eventually, the place where I started at the Light Portal invited me to actually become a facilitator with them. So I became one of the core facilitators for the light portal and, uh, I had a period of time where I was just amazing and doing the healing work, doing all that, and then then I just hit this massive wall of depression that uh, just kind of slammed me. You know like it was like all day long, every day, just intense sadness. All the time I was processing something, I didn't know what exactly. Then I figured out later it had to do with a birth trauma, of all things.
Bjorn Lestrud:But in so doing I met another one of my teachers who was this uh, I met another one of my teachers who was this indigenous, trained yes, you could call him a shaman they don't use the term in the Shipibo, where he was trained, they use the term maestro and I started doing private sessions with him and he helped me a lot move through the energies.
Bjorn Lestrud:And then I sat in an ayahuasca session that he did and completely reset my system, and from there I worked with him and this is when I started learning about the power of remote work. I did what's called a plant spirit diet, where you enter in sort of a period of agreement like I'm not going to eat certain foods, I'm not going to engage in certain behaviors for the period of the diet, and so doing I'm going to connect deeper with this plant and connect with this plant as my teacher. So I did. But the plant that I was dieting was called marosa, but I never actually physically consumed the plant that I was dieting was, uh, called Marosa, but I never actually physically consumed the plant. Everything was done through sound. He implanted the energetic seed of the Marosa in my field using uh chanting.
Bjorn Lestrud:And we would meet every two, three weeks.
Bjorn Lestrud:He would give me a new chant over Zoom and then I would work with the chant every day, listen to it once, then do a grounding ritual with a mapacho tobacco.
Bjorn Lestrud:After about a month into doing that, I was going for a walk one evening and I started feeling this warm sensation like right in the middle of the upper part of my chest. And then the warm sensation spread and became it sort of felt like an opening of that spot, like a flower petal sort of opening up. And then I stepped into this place of complete and utter euphoria and oneness with everything around me. Uh, it was like everywhere I looked, in the air and all around me, I would see the most beautiful blend and swirls of colors I'd ever seen, and it would dynamically shift and change no matter where I looked or turned my head, but it was always equally as beautiful. And any object I looked at, whether it was a tree, the road, a building, I would just fall in love with and I was just so it was just unconditional love, just pouring through me, yeah, but in a very physical way, embodied way, and it was so incredible.
Bjorn Lestrud:I, yeah, just amazing, and so really opened my eyes like the power of healing and power of the quantum field for healing. Because, you know, he wasn't doing physical work on me, he wasn't, I wasn't even taking a physical plan yet I had this experience and it was so incredible and it was all remote, you know, and uh. And so then I had, shortly after that, I had to go back to the states because my father was in bad health and then I was needed there, and so when I came back, I started learning, like, how to play with tuning forks, and I was using tuning forks a lot and I got certified in biofield tuning with tuning forks and then I eventually realized how to integrate what I learned with the tuning forks into the chanting that had already been activated within me.
Bjorn Lestrud:And then I started doing like a sound healing but like a shamanic type of way, and it's just sort of progressed and progressed. And now I do like lives. You know weekly live events on insight timer. I do private sessions. I do a lot of different things depending on what the person needs and what people need, and uh, it's just been a really crazy, uh, unusual journey, I guess.
Kertia:Yeah, oh, my goodness, what a journey Bjorn. What a journey bjorn, what a journey wow wow.
Bjorn Lestrud:And now, right as you, as we're saying that, I'm like this is a burning sensation, like right in the center of my forehead, like right now. You know, in this moment, it's like sharing this stuff, is it also moves energy? Yeah it activates that.
Kertia:Yeah, yeah, I know because, as you were speaking, I was feeling your energy as well. So it's very, the quantum feel is real. It's very, very real. Whenever I've had conversations like this you know anything spirituality, energy, work, anything like that like as I'm sitting here, I can feel what you're telling me, right? So, like as you're speaking, I could feel the energy. I could feel energy move. It's very, very interesting A lot. I don't say it in the moment because I want I don't want to interrupt you I want you to tell your story and share all of your experience. But I'm sitting with that and I'm just like wow, like I can feel how, if I can feel this through the computer, imagine you feeling the whole thing. You know, when you were going through that process, I was just like wow, that's profound.
Bjorn Lestrud:It's incredible, isn't it? And then, how two people can feel the energy just sitting here having a conversation using technology, right.
Kertia:Yeah.
Bjorn Lestrud:Is there really any real difference of being in the same room when we're in the same virtual room?
Kertia:Exactly In that sense energetically?
Bjorn Lestrud:I don't think there is. No, no, it's all quantum, it's all energy and it's everywhere know it's all quantum, it's all energy and it's everywhere. Maybe, uh, if someone, like, was really sweaty and they smelled and I wouldn't be able to smell them or something like that.
Kertia:But yeah, but energy, that that is always. There's always an exchange of energy. It's amazing, it's so amazing. You know, and just like I want you to talk about now, how you work with this with sound, um, with chanting in your work. How do you because you're on inside timer, so are you so you're purely? Are you purely just working with sound and um, the language, and tuning and the tuning fork? How does that work? What does that look like when you're working with a client or on inside timer?
Bjorn Lestrud:so I'll explain both.
Bjorn Lestrud:These are it's the same, but also different yeah so when I do like an inside timer live, I'm tuning into the energy of the group, the collective field. So it's a little different than tuning into one person, a little bit less personal. Yet there are still issues that we're all connected to that work on the level of the DNA, on the collective. So on a group event I usually start with tuning forks for a few minutes and I just start tapping into the energy of the group and I have four different audible frequencies that I move through. I start with the lower, I start with a 144 and I keep going with that until it's a. The tuning forks give me feedback relative to how the group is settling into receiving from that frequency.
Bjorn Lestrud:You can hear it in the sound, it's audible. So once the sound reflects and sounds clear, then I know I can move on to the next one. And then there's a feeling too with it, like oh yeah, it feels right. So I moved through 144, 174, 417, 528. And once everything feels just super calm and nice, tucked away, settled, then I pull out my Buffalo drum. Where do I have that here?
Bjorn Lestrud:Which is this here and I start drumming, and I start drumming and then I start to sing and I let the energy carry the sounds and listen to my body, to let the sounds move and change how they need to.
Bjorn Lestrud:And so how it works on a spiritual level with me is I have a primary guide that I work with that takes the form of a blue dragon. So that's why I call my healing business blue dragon healing. And then there are many energies behind that guide that shuffle forth and take turns, um, channeling through that, so there'll be highs, lows, but also rhythms within the tones themselves, like a stuff like that, right and uh. So I do that for a while and then I get a sense when it's about time to, because that's part of the performance you could call. It is about the foundational energies moving the, you know, working on the blockages on a deeper level. And the the, the drum, mirrors the heartbeat of the earth and keeps people more grounded in the experience and in their bodies. But people still float away, and so once we kind of reach this sort of contra point, then I break out my shakers and I sort of do a little pattern, interrupt with the shakers for a few minutes.
Kertia:Yeah.
Bjorn Lestrud:And then I bring out the and I do the resolution with the drum, with the has softer tones and a different intention behind it. With the chanting.
Bjorn Lestrud:And then, as I'm done with that and wrapping up, I bring the tuning forks back out and I move through those frequencies again, and this time they just go right through, and so then people really receive those tones right into their bodies. And then I usually take out the singing bowl at the end. Now, when I'm doing like a private work, especially a first session, it's a little different in the sense that most of the time I'm using tuning forks in my voice, very little work with the drum because, well, energetically, I don't know.
Bjorn Lestrud:Most people are familiar with the chakra system, but not everyone is familiar with these two points above the head and below the feet the earth and the sun star, kind of like the battery systems within the body all the other seven chakras into alignment and get the energy flowing. So I'm spending most of my time just working on those two points, using tuning forks and using my voice, and then, once we're done, I'll usually incorporate. And then, once we're done, I'll usually incorporate. Uh, sometimes I'll actually use hape in the work and bring things to a conclusion, but overall the work is really about expression. It's about that everyone actually has their own healing expression.
Bjorn Lestrud:Yeah, actually has their own healing expression. Yeah, and this helps remove the blocks that prevent us from bringing that forward yeah so this, uh, for somebody new to the work, this is a big.
Bjorn Lestrud:the beginning of it is just like learning how to communicate better with yourself, and people generally say they tap more into their creativity. They start noticing shifts in their energy. Usually they're very palpable or observable differences. But then I also have a lot like a longer program which is actually designed not only to bring forward healing expression but then to package it and create something real and then build the assets to bring it out to the world.
Kertia:Yeah, that's amazing. It's very intriguing, very fascinating. I totally love what you're saying right now, you know, because a lot of people need that. A lot of people have so many energy blocks.
Bjorn Lestrud:And sometimes, most of the times, most of us don't know where the blocks are, but you know that there's something there, but you kind of don't know where it is, what it's coming from. And when you have someone that can facilitate you working through that, releasing that, however way that might look for you, for each individual, that that's just amazing. Yeah, thank you. And I also am very sensitive to, personally, to the whole concept of somebody telling me, for example, like if I receive healing from someone, them telling me how I should perceive it, how I should think about it, what the energy was that they worked on. I take it all with a grain of salt, because to me the healing is what arises in the moment and the rest of it is filtered through the mind, what someone tells me. And so I do my best to refrain from trying to get into someone's space and tell them how to perceive it and how to think about it, but just to give them the space to just let them feel it.
Bjorn Lestrud:Yeah, exactly, it's very, it's a very individual experience and you can only speak to your own experience, truly, and I've had mentors that really did the opposite of that, and it took me a long time to let go of it.
Kertia:Maybe that's a part of your own learning. Yes, it is. Yeah, I think that's a part of their own journey. You know, when you're on the spiritual journey, there's still a lot of stuff that we have to uncover, a lot of stuff that we need to shed. It doesn't matter how far along you are on the path. You're still human, you're still in the human body, you still work with the human brain, so you still do very human stuff oh yeah well, uh, I'm glad that you can feel the humor of that vibration.
Bjorn Lestrud:At the moment I'm processing something that so sometimes in the mornings I do automatic writing and just to get some extra guidance, I keep referring to this thing they call my secret jacket. Yeah, yeah, apparently I've been holding this like shame around me that you know was very hidden for a long time and now it's processing and so I'm processing the layers of this jacket and it's really strange because it's so strong, like it doesn't prevent me from feeling the energies or anything like that, but literally I took some weed or some mushroom or, I don't know, maybe any medicine. Right now I would barely even be able to perceive it because I'm so rooted into the feeling of what is moving through, and sometimes I'll sit there and my whole, like foot or left leg, will just go ice cold and I can feel like this energy, just like shaking, moving, coming through there. I'm like what are you up to down there? You know it never ends.
Kertia:No, it doesn't. It doesn't. It's a whole journey, but it's. It's cool when I have these conversations with different people and I hear the different experiences and how healing has shown up for them, how it looks like for them, and you truly see that you know there is no one size fits all solution or way to healing or, but it's very, it's very personal to each individual and you know, everyone perceives in a different way, heals in a different way, feels in a different way, and it's all just beautiful. You know, it all leads back to that one principle and that's what's the most important thing. So I'm definitely here for it. I want to know, because you know you mentioned your guides what is it like for you working with your guides?
Bjorn Lestrud:When I connect to that. Energy is the most wonderful thing and it only happens in presence. So when I connect to that and I feel that it's like my particular flavor, I guess that I get is you could call it effervescence. The sense of bubbly joy that just kind of flows out and could call it yeah joy, unconditional love, peace. But it has a certain vibration to it.
Bjorn Lestrud:It's not just this still thing, it's, it's alive, you know yeah, yeah, I know it's hard to describe, right, I can talk about when I saw some of my guides, uh, but when I have seen them, but there have been moments because I still haven't fully like learned how to integrate my spiritual sight into just everyday. Whenever I want type of my guides, for example, it's this indigenous shaman and they tend to visit me a lot of times when I'm doing like deep breath work and I'll get these visions that are so powerful. The energy of the visions just is so blissfully, uh know, and when it flows through it's just like this wave of pleasure yeah, definitely.
Kertia:Do you ever in those moments actively communicate with your guides, or do you primarily just receive the visions in that moment?
Bjorn Lestrud:I primarily in those moments. I just received the visions and sometimes I'll get a message with it yeah like.
Bjorn Lestrud:There's one time I was in a meditation and right at the end of the meditation I saw this book on a book stand. I'd never seen the book before, no idea what it was. It was bluish colored book and it was like this pep stand. You'd seen a bookstore where the book's on display and then there are other copies of it all around, um. But when I came out of the dream or the vision, I couldn't remember the name of the book, but for some reason the author's name kept circulating in my head, even though I never read the author's name when I saw it. And so then I looked up the author's name that was circulating through my head and I found the book on amazon what's the book about?
Bjorn Lestrud:it's called uh, it's hold on, let me just uh double check the name of it. It's called the universal principles and the metamorphic Technique, the Keys to Healing and Enlightenment, wow.
Kertia:Have you read it yet?
Bjorn Lestrud:I have it. It's a slow read. It's super, super dense.
Kertia:Yeah, it sounds dense. It's the kind of book where you have to read it slowly yes, it is yeah yeah, I get it, I totally get it. Oh man, um, it's, that's such an amazing journey, though. I love it and I love. I love your excitement as well about the journey that you've been on. It's, it's really cool. Um, what would you say? You know like, with all your experiences and your healing journey and now with the work that you're doing, what message do you have for people?
Bjorn Lestrud:that don't fall into the trap of spirituality in the sense that I and I fell into this trap of when I started exploring spirituality. I wanted to escape into it.
Kertia:Yeah.
Bjorn Lestrud:And so sometimes, for example, when people start doing ayahuasca and they have these experiences, they just want to keep doing it all the time and keep having those experiences. And the real healing happens when you just allow yourself to feel what you need to feel in your body and that it's okay to do that and it's not going to kill you to do that and that you'll feel better when you do that. And also I found it's helpful to explore different healing modalities and just see what works. For me, some things have worked and others haven't, and it's valuable input either way, even if you try something that doesn't work super well, you never know what benefit you might've gotten from that, and it helps shape your awareness too.
Kertia:Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and I love that you mentioned that because you know that's. That's one of the things I think you know, anyone. For a lot of people I when you start a spiritual journey and you start to have experiences, the very human thing to do is to want to escape into that world. Right, like a lot of us, we're just like why are we here? Why did we come here? Why are we still here? When are the aliens coming? You know all these things.
Bjorn Lestrud:When can I?
Kertia:leave this place.
Bjorn Lestrud:And it's like, oh, and I have this pain in my body. I don't want to feel it.
Kertia:Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's a very human thing to do to then want to escape this physical realm. But you know, there is no escape, there is just a working through right and you have to do the work through portion of that right In order to ascend. But like, yeah, it's very important that you mentioned that, because it's so easy to get trapped into that and to want to stay on that side. But truly spirituality, like this human experience, is a part of spirituality. Right, everyone is spiritual, everyone is born spiritual. It's just that some of us have not truly reconnected with that aspect of ourselves and so a lot of us we're just walking around, really disconnected. But we're all born spiritual and you know, choosing to go on a journey or being thrown into the journey, however which way it happens, for you it's really important not to try to escape this reality, to realize that this reality is equally important and is equally a part of that spiritual journey, a part of that spiritual awakening.
Bjorn Lestrud:As a matter of fact, it is vital for that it is, and the most amazing experiences that you can have in healing occur through the body. They're not just up here.
Kertia:Yeah.
Bjorn Lestrud:They're something that you can feel through your whole body and that is real euphoria yeah, yeah, exactly so.
Kertia:Yeah, that was an amazing point that you made there. So you spoke about your program, you spoke about Blue Dragon, healing and then I know there is the Primal Path. What is the difference between these two?
Bjorn Lestrud:Primal Path is just part of Blue Dragon Healing. It's the longer-term program that I've been developing to bring a person through all these different stages of discovering their healing expression, learning how to practice it with it and transform with it, and eventually learning how to share it and create something that they can actually bring out into the world a reflection of them. Yeah, that's beautiful.
Bjorn Lestrud:The PATH is kind of an acronym and it stands for four things. P stands for pain, because the first stage of healing is acknowledging the pain. That's there. The A in PATH stands for awakening, because once you've acknowledged that pain, you then create an opening, because you're opening yourself up to new insights. And then from there, the t in path stands for transformation. It's once you have an awakening, that's great. But how can you have that type of experience and make it a regular thing through practice? Right, and then transformation is all about ising the awakening, the healing. And then the H stands for heritage, because it's like, okay, so you went through this transformation, but how are you going to now make the world a better place and how are you going to share what you've learned with other people and make a mark? And so then that's the H element.
Kertia:I love that, bjorn, that's H element. I love that, bjorn, that's so beautiful. I love that. That sounds really cool. What has it been like so far? What have you noticed with the people that you work with so far? Any profound experiences, or what is it that they have learned or integrated, however it looks for them?
Bjorn Lestrud:learnt or integrated, however it looks for them. So the most common things especially when people are starting out because I think that that's what people are going to resonate the most with is that a lot of times, we as human beings have relationship issues with people from our past that we haven't let go of and uh, and that affects our self-relationship, how we communicate with ourself, because essentially, by putting someone in a box somewhere, we're putting a part of ourself in a box somewhere.
Bjorn Lestrud:so is a reintegration of our parts of self and our, our own expression, and how we really choose and want to show up authentically in the world in a way that deeply resonates with with us, in our bodies, and feels good, feels right. So most of the people that come to me have been on a healing path for some time or have been meditating for some time and they're looking for something that will open them up more and something different that they haven't tried, that might just connect with them and help them be better, connect with them and help them be better. And so, yeah, this is a way to really bring out the creativity. I mean. I even have a podcast where Blue Dragon Healing Podcast and the subtitle of it is Creative Healing Through Story and Spirit. It's all about creation.
Kertia:for this work, yeah, we're all creators. We're all creators, it's just that. A lot this work yeah, we're all creators, we're all creators. It's just that a lot of us we forget that, yeah. Yeah, that's pretty cool, yeah. So I'd love to know is there anything else about anything? Your journey? You're doing work. Is there anything that you'd love to share with us today?
Bjorn Lestrud:I will just share some a very short channel. It's going to be in a dragon language, but it'll carry its own vibration. Satsang with Mooji. Thank you, oh, that was beautiful.
Kertia:Thank you. Thank you so much, that was beautiful. Thank you, vern. Thank you so much. That was amazing, that was good, that was so beautiful. I like that. That was amazing. Thank you so much. Thank you so so much Pleasure being here. This was such a great conversation. Thank you so much for joining me today. Where can we find you? Where can we access your work?
Bjorn Lestrud:The easiest thing is through my website, wwwbluedragonhealingnet. There's information on all the different parts, and then there's also a resources page that links into the Insight Timer podcast, but there's also a newsletter. If people want to sign up for that, then they'll be able to stay informed on all of the inner workings of what's coming out and that sort of thing amazing as usual.
Kertia:Thank you so much for sticking with us. Thank you so much for seeing this through. I hope you enjoyed that channel, that beautiful channeled message from Bjorn. All his details are within the show notes of this episode. And reach out and tell us what you think, tell us how you feel about everything that Bjorn and I shared today, and continue to share this podcast with your friends and family. Thank you so much for all the love and support. Until next time.
