1. I Tend to Skip the Preface (BCO Preface I)

Scott, Jared, and Ben discuss the first part of the BCO Preface.

Dear Listener, I apologize for speaking ignorantly--our show notes cannot accomodate the entire first section of the Preface. Please visit this link to access the BCO online: PCA BCO online

BCO Commentaries
Modern: Morton Smith, Per Almquist forthcoming
Historical: F.P. Ramsay, J.A. Hodge

Historical polity resources
Changes over the years to BCO: pcahistory.org
Free Church of Scotland - James Bannerman - Church of Christ
PCUSA - Alexander McGill - Princeton
PCUS - Thomas Peck - Columbia

PCA Polity

Westminster Shorter Catechism

Westminster Larger Catechism

Kanye West "Selah"

Kanye West "Closed on Sunday"

Transcript

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"Warm" Welcome

SPEAKER_01 0:15

Well, hello again, and welcome to Polity Matters. This is episode one of our first season that we're calling Bring Your Own BCO, or BYO BCO, as I like to call it. My name is Ben Ratliff, and I'm joined, as always, by my friends Jared Nelson and Scott Edberg. This is the inaugural discussion on the Book of Church Order. We are eager to uh get into things, but first just wanted to check in. How's everybody doing? I know we've all got pastoral things going on. Uh week to week is is not always the same. You guys gotta be friendly. We gotta be nice to these people who are listening to us.

SPEAKER_00 0:56

I had a funeral yesterday, so that that's what's new with me. That's that's fun, fun small talk.

SPEAKER_01 1:03

Yeah, I have a funeral at the end of this week, and so and I was doing hospital visits just before we started, so we're all just uh cheery as can be. Before we get into the preface of the book of church order, uh wanted to ask Jared to just remind us of some of the resources that are out there. And actually, before he does that, I was gonna point out that um if you're trying to follow along, I'm gonna print out or print out goodness, how old am I? Not that old. Um, I will have the preface of the book of church order printed, uh, no goodness, no, uh found for us in our show notes. So if you're following along, uh you can open up your podcast player and look at those show notes and you'll see some of what we're gonna read and what we're gonna discuss. Um and you can also find a copy of the BCO at uh pcac.org slash BCO and look at an electronic copy there if you'd like to follow along as we work our way through. Um, Jared, what resources are available for us as we study the Book of Church Order in particular?

SPEAKER_00 2:03

Well, yeah, I thought we should just say we are probably going to be citing a lot of people, and it's good to know what it means if we say Smith or we say Bannerman. Um, so just a review. There are only a few um commentaries on the BCO that have uh been written. Uh the most recent one being Morton Smith, uh last revised in uh 2007. Uh there have been some people working on a new one, uh including uh uh PCATE uh per omquist is uh has written one for a dissertation. And um he we might have some notes from him that uh we might be sharing as well. Um there's also historical commentaries such as Ramsey, so we might refer to him. Uh that's a little bit out of date, though, 1800s. Um there's the PC USA had a guy who wrote a commentary named Hodge. I think that's why it sold well, even though he's not related to Charles Hodge, uh J.A. Hodge. Um, and so those are kind of mostly what we cite, and then probably we'll cite uh Bannerman a lot, who wrote a work on ecclesiology from the Free Church of Scotland. And there's a lot of overlap um between their view of even the relationship of church and state and what we have in the PCA. Um, there should be an article actually coming up about the time that this is released on to Presbyterian Polity that will outline way more resources, and you can look that up and uh see some other things that you can dive into. But usually we're probably gonna say something like Ramsey, Smith, uh Hodge, and Bannerman, and that's who we're citing.

SPEAKER_01 3:35

You might have said it, I might have missed it. What's FP stand for with FP Ramsey? Does anybody know?

SPEAKER_00 3:41

Franklin Pierce. I don't I don't know if somebody was a big fan of that presidency or something. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 3:47

Oh Frankie. Yeah. Well, let's um let's start to dive in. And as we work through here in a few minutes, I'll read each paragraph for us as we begin the preface. But before we talk about the details, I wanted to just uh begin with a general discussion of the preface of the book of church order. In the BCO, there are th uh there's a preface that has three sections uh with Roman numbrals one, two, and three. Um, and these three sections in many ways give us the rules that we follow for interpreting our book of church order. The the preface, um, at least the the first paragraph of the first section uh stems from what the divines wrote in the preface to their form of church government. And so some of it comes from history, a lot of it uh has been around for a long time. But in general, the preface gives us principles for understanding how to put the book to use in the life of the church. And so, if a certain understanding of a rule from the BCO goes against anything written in the preface, that understanding must be incorrect. And the gentlemen can correct me if they want, but as an example, in the preface, it's made clear that uh the Lord Jesus rules his church through the ministry of officers, um, and that rule is spiritual in nature. We we often would say ministerial and declarative, that we don't make up anything, um, we don't have the right of force in the lives of our people, but we simply minister in the name of Christ and declare the word that he's given to us. So if a censure, for example, from BCO chapter 30 is ever used in some way to include an aspect of force. Um, I've heard of some churches trying to enforce specific um visitation policies uh with children in in relationship to a divorce that they're overseeing in their church. If force is ever tried to add be added to a censure, that use is necessarily incorrect since the rule uh that we have as ministers in the church is spiritual in nature and and comes down from Christ. And that principle is established here in our preface. Um and so in that way, uh the preface of the BCO motivates and encourages us uh to be good churchmen. Uh, you know, one of those points that Scott made uh in our introductory episode that that that's one of our goals um as we study is to be good churchmen. And that's really one of the motivations that the preface gives us is to um to carry ourselves with dignity, to pursue holiness, and to seek wisdom as we implement the principles that are established here um in our Book of Order. Um guys, do you have any other thoughts just in general on the preface as we get into it?

SPEAKER_00 6:25

Yeah, I think it was an interesting question. I think, Scott, you asked it before we started recording of why a preface and uh even this first paragraph, because for others, um, it may be in a different place, like in the historical PCUS. Uh it was in chapter two, I think. And in um the PCUSA, I think it was in there too, but in a different place. And then some um reformed denominations don't have this in uh their book of church order. I don't think the EPC does. I um the RPCES uh didn't seem to have this uh exactly this way. Um so I it is just interesting that they took this and they moved this as their opening statement. Uh there's a sense in which it uh elevates the priority of it, uh, even though a lot of people skip it because they're trying to get into the main stuff and they don't they don't search and and study it. Um it is interesting that the PCA founders move this to a prominent position to say before we say anything, we have to establish uh the kingship of Christ. And then, as we're going to talk about later, these preliminary principles.

SPEAKER_02 7:28

Yeah, when I when I read books, I tend to skip the preface. Uh I am even tempted often to skip the introduction if it doesn't seem germane. Um, and if I I'd be lying if I said that I just loved reading the preface of the BCO. I I even I think did a cursory look during my ordination exams for it. I I really ignored it. I looked at the substance of everything else and in many ways was negligent when it came to understanding not only what the preface said, but the significance for how it guides the rest of the document. Uh and so I actually, this is probably my first time slowly reading through the preface. Um, even over the past couple of years, I've uh neglected the preface, and it's to my own chagrin uh because it is important. Um, it's not like the prefaces of other books where it gives honor for uh some of the authors of the document, though uh Christ is exalted. Um it is actually worthy of reading and it prepares you for what how to understand, as Ben said, that comes in in the document overall. And so it'd be a mistake uh to do what I did and probably what some other brothers have done, which is completely ignore it because preface means to ignore in our own modern world. And so hopefully we can give some justice then to this part of our constitution.

SPEAKER_01 8:55

Jared, you had a good thought that you've shared with us, sort of about the beginning section of the preface that is titled The King and Head of the Church. You know, in our current world, living in the United States of America, we don't deal with kings on a regular basis, but when this particular paragraph especially was written, the the first paragraph that is, um, kings were common and well known. And you you have a thought to bring us back sort of to some historical context.

SPEAKER_00 9:22

Yeah, since this first paragraph was written in the 1640s, um, many of us aren't familiar with English history uh and the fact that they had a king uh and there was many people in the parliament that didn't like the king, uh Charles I. And one of the things I didn't like about Charles I was he was asserting the divine right of kings. And so he was the head of government, he was the head of the church, um, some uh language that he had been around since Henry VIII, uh, still. And um, so he was asserting basically his divine right to all these things, and even using like Psalm 51 to say uh that the king there, David, said, Against God and God only have I sinned, uh, that's because he's only accountable to him uh and uh he rules and is able to do all of these things in the church and in the uh uh in the um in the state. And so in that historical context, when they start talking about a divine right within the civil government and within the church, uh, what they mean is that Christ is ruling as king and there's no other head of the church. And so we actually have to uh look at the way that the the church functions, not as uh these, like you said earlier, as a law giving, but as decrees. And um, it even led to um the king uh losing his head over this. Um so apparently it was it was pretty uh important to them uh to assert this uh divine right of of Christ in his church. And so that's that's the context in which we we read this.

SPEAKER_01 10:49

Well, as we work our way through the first section of the preface of the BCO, we're going to look through at these, there are five paragraphs. I'll read each paragraph before we get into them, and then um we'll we'll try to discuss the content here. We commented before we started recording, we have a lot of notes on paragraph one, and uh a good handful of notes on the rest of them, but that's mostly because this first paragraph is so lengthy. Um, one long sentence about the headship of Christ as the source of the government of his church, and I'll read it force

Paragraph 1

SPEAKER_01 11:20

and then we'll discuss. It says, Jesus Christ, upon whose shoulders the government rests, whose name is called Wonderful, Counselor, the mighty God, the everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace, of the increase of whose government and peace there shall be no end, who sits upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom to order it and to establish it with judgment and justice from henceforth, even forever, having all power given unto him in heaven and in earth by the Father, who raised him from the dead and set him at his own right hand, far above all principality and power, and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world but also in that which is to come, and has put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, which is his body, the fullness of him that filleth all in all. He, being ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things, received gifts for his church, and gave all offices necessary for the edification of his church and the perfecting of his saints. There's a couple of Bible references in there, and if you're looking at the show notes or if you're following along in the BCO, you can see those and go reference them. Most of this paragraph is straight scripture. Some of it comes from Westminster chapter 25, section six. It's it's teaching us about who the head of our church is. And so we want to try to ask this question as we as we work through what's the what's the application of this? What's the point of our original founders and of the divines writing a paragraph like this as we begin talking about the government of the church?

SPEAKER_00 13:03

Well, I enjoy uh some discussion that Bannerman has. Um he's writing in a context of the Scottish Church, but what he points out is the fact that Christ is head of the church, and especially you read Ephesians 1, and all things are put under him in the church, uh, one of the things that means is that the the church does not derive its authority or its legitimacy from the state. Um, so it's not an established church. That's that's one of the things that um that there's not this control over it uh by the state. But there's also um sometimes in our goods, we talk about the church as a voluntary society, and you have to be careful with some of that. That what we don't mean is that it derives its authority from the people just voting on things and they can vote to to have whatever it is that they want in terms of doctrine or in terms of organization of the church. Um, so one of the big things uh to take away from this is that the church's power and authority is derived from Christ as king, uh, which has a lot of implications for what you can do, uh, how you can organize things, uh, what sort of um uh powers or censors that you can do. Uh so what one of the biggest things I think to take away from that is it derives this authority from Christ, not the state, and not just a voluntary vote democratic uh uh people.

SPEAKER_02 14:25

I think that goes on further. You you have the one end that goes to the civil, but it also is we can we can elaborate a further on is the structure of the church itself and where its power is derived from. And so the uh source of all church power and authority is Christ Himself. And so that's not popes or bishops, that's not modern apostles, that's celebrity pastors, um, where we follow just certain men. It's all derived from Christ Himself. And so any authority or power that is not found in Christ is not um given to uh his people in that sense. And so we have the one side which is guarding us from uh civil um abuse, and then the other side guarding us from ecclesiastical abuse, um, from the church being usurped by individuals claiming to have the sole power or authority uh of Christ on earth. And and this is where we may get into more Presbyterian government, where we are not ruled by bishops and popes, but rather we are ruled. Uh our rule comes derived from Christ as a plurality of elders. And so the source of power uh is a good balance, I think, for all traditions, if it was properly applied.

SPEAKER_01 15:47

Yeah, it there's there's the civil aspect of of the application of this paragraph, but there's also clearly, I mean, the the majesty of this paragraph lends to worship. Um, it moves us uh to to see the authority of Christ and the glory of Christ and what God has handed to him as he declared him the Son of God in power by raising him from the dead. Um and so what we see is that the church is nothing without her Lord. That's it's something that Morton Smith says as he comments on this uh paragraph. Um that that the existence of the church is the result of God's grace and mercy, um, of his intention to bring a people to himself. And we can see this clearly in our shorter catechism. In shorter catechism 26, speaking about Christ executing the office of a king, the divine's right that Christ executes the office of a king in subduing us to himself, in ruling and defending us, and in restraining and conquering all of his and our enemies. And um it goes on in the larger, in the same sense, um, that it says that he he is calling out of the world a people to himself and giving them officers, laws, and censures by which he visibly governs them. And all of this, right, is that that that kingly prophecy that's coming out of the Old Testament, um, speaking of David's seed that would come and sit on the throne. And as a church, as we think about Christ as our king sitting on his throne, ruling us in heaven, by the ministrations of men that he's called to himself, it's it's Morton Smith that points this out. It is such a comforting doctrine that we ought to ought to find consolation in these truths. How comforting it is that we have such a king over us that can be described in all of these terms, one who has all power, one who is uh who knows our weaknesses, one who establishes uh righteousness and justice forevermore. Um we need reminding of this. This is why it's so significant that it sits in our preface, that we order the church the way that we do, because Christ has commanded it so, and in obeying his commands, there is assurance and comfort that he is protecting us and overseeing us.

SPEAKER_02 18:13

When thinking about the comfort of Christ, uh when uh when you think of an earthly kingdom uh and an earthly magistrate and ruler, uh when it is governed by governed well by leadership or individual, uh prosperity and peace overwhelm the land. Even when things seem rough, uh perhaps in your own hometown or your own household, you remain comforted uh societally because of the leadership of the monarch, president, or legislature. Uh, if we look in our own time and our own uh uh conflict within our own country, we see no comfort, right? There's little comfort because we don't have good leadership uh in any um part of our um uh federal government. And so, because of that, there is tension in the land, throughout the land. There is no comfort. At least that's what the news tells me, and that's what it seems to be the general disposition. There's no comfort because the leadership has not produced strong, well-rounded um uh government. And so uh kind of comparing that then to Jesus Christ and uh his rule, his kingship, his dominion, his country. Uh we, even in the midst of difficult times, we were talking um at the beginning of doing funerals and visiting people in the hospital. Uh, we have confidence, we have hope, we have even in the midst of difficulty because of who rules us. And while that might be forgotten in our own age because of the impoverished leadership of our own country, it is a comfort to believers to know that their king sits on a throne, and even when their lives seem difficult and harsh and painful, they have um a great hope in the one that orders all things. That's not Morton Smith.

SPEAKER_00 20:09

I think the rest of this, there's so many different things I'd love to say, but I think the actual the rest of those paragraphs go on to expound on some of these points in the paragraph. So if we go through the next paragraphs, I think we have a lot more that we can say as what does it mean that he's his head, uh the head of the church, and all these different things. So uh maybe it'd be good for us to to go through that since you're doing our audiobook uh version, Ben.

Paragraph 2

SPEAKER_01 20:34

Paragraph two Jesus, the mediator, the sole priest, prophet, king, savior, and head of the church, contains in himself, by way of eminency, all the offices in his church, and has many of their names attributed to him in the scriptures. He is apostle, teacher, pastor, minister, bishop, and the only lawgiver in Zion. Gentlemen, give us your thoughts.

SPEAKER_00 21:00

I included that Ramsay quote there because I'd never thought of it before. Uh Ramsey points out that not even Moses is called a lawgiver in the scriptures, which we are so used to using that sort of title for him. But I think what he's saying is basically he's the the law passer downer, right? He's he's uh taking from God and just giving it to the people. And so there's something similar that's going on here that if Christ is the only lawgiver, we can't add to it. He's gonna say more about that. Um, this is gonna say more about that in um the fourth paragraph. Um, but I think that's a um that's a striking um observation, which also means that these titles, especially titles within the church, are based on Christ and his titles and his authority. So we can't add and take away. We can't say, you know, we really don't need deacons anymore. And so we're not gonna have deacons in the entirety of the church and then just take that office away, or add, you know, we're gonna add all of these other office offices that. have authority, uh not just saying like your staff person, like your secretary, but you know, make up offices without realizing these are supposed to reflect Christ uh and his uh uh and his rule of the church and so um we can't just uh take those away or add to those this is probably my first my favorite in this section uh it's fair for a few things it it's a hodgepodge um sentence this is not just from the the this isn't the Scottish church this is in the America but a summation of the Southern Presbyterian Church the OPC and the Mennonite uh church and and so it I don't know how this sentence came together or who is is drafting it they must have had an uncle who is in the the Mennonite denomination but it it it is beautifully crafted in that these are all the definite article versions of these um offices uh where we might say I am a pastor we say Jesus is the pastor he is the apostle uh he he just found this entire list he is the bishop the minister the teacher the lawgiver uh these he's the uh we are uh in many regards that person is a deacon jesus is the deacon uh it's a helpful reminder to show the absolute nature of power and authority and how it's derived to us everything we do is as an emblem or picture of what he has done as ministers of the gospel as teachers as ministers and so forth yeah and this is the first time the the language of king has been too and I think we were talking a little bit earlier about how that is a comfort but um one thing that was striking to me as I was reading through this as I was reading uh Bannerman I'll quote here when we think of king we tend to think of the person in executive position as president right what do they do they make sure that uh things come about right that they execute the laws and I think a lot of times we think about Jesus as king in that sort of way like if something bad happens we say he's still on the throne um but actually wrapped up in Jesus being king is not just he is the executive but he is also uh the lawgiver the legislature and he is the judicial he is uh um uh uh declaring judgment and all of those things are wrapped up in saying Christ is king church not just that whatever happens he's he's sovereign over providentially but that the the laws depend on him and then if we don't follow them judgment comes from that um in Bannerman he talks about this I butcher Latin uh just divinium I I have this lady in my congregation who teaches Latin and every time that I say Latin in a sermon I look at her I'm sorry I'm I'm I'm pronouncing this wrong but uh when he starts talking about that he says the presence and the power of the divine head all is derived from him this is Bannerman talking uh and all emanates from him as its source within the province of the church the Lord Jesus Christ is the only teacher lawgiver and judge so lawgiver and judge you have the legislature and you have the digital and he says if doctrine is taught it is taught because he has revealed it. If ordinances are administered they are administered in his name and because they are his. If government is established and exercised it is through his appointment and authority.

SPEAKER_01 25:26

If saving grace is dispensed it is dispensed through the virtue and power of his spirit if a blessing is communicated it is because he blesses in the language of the confession of faith there is no other head of the church but the Lord Jesus Christ

Paragraph 3

SPEAKER_01 25:42

well let's go on to the next paragraph number three where it says it belongs to his majesty from his throne of glory to rule and teach the church through his word and spirit by the ministry of men thus immediately exercising his own authority and enforcing his own laws unto the edification and establishment of his kingdom. And this might be my favorite paragraph in this particular section. You know when I'm when I'm out and around in Cleveland even earlier when I was down in Hazelhurst it was it was always my favorite line to use to tell people when they asked that I was a minister. You know pastor gets tossed around a whole lot in the South pastor's a good word. Preacher's a good word I like the word minister because it might not mean this to people that hear me say it, but it reminds me that I don't do any of this in my own strength, that I'm not doing this for myself, but that I am a minister of a king. And that's that's what this paragraph is talking about that Jesus leads the church um immediately through the ministry of men but but chiefly through them ministering the word that is being applied and made effective by the ministry of the Spirit the church in that sense is a manifestation of Christ's kingdom that it it is being ruled by him. He's not absent he's not gone we're not doing sort of the best we can by finding the holiest men that we can to stand in pulpits and do what we think Jesus would do. Jesus has called men to be his ministers and this is the way that he desires for the church to exist is just the way that it does through immediate exercise of his own authority and the enforcement of his own laws to the establishment and justification of his kingdom.

SPEAKER_00 27:35

Within this idea of Christ being on the throne and being a king and having this authority in the church um sometimes it's talked about as uh there's these two different kingdoms um the the civil realm and the ecclesial realm um I remember I was uh doing ministry with international students at one point and I was talking to um a guy whose dad was a pastor and so I just said oh I heard that your dad is a minister and he was like oh no no no no no he's not a minister because minister to him actually meant somebody who served government and you start to realize like in some British forms of uh of these titles you have ministers in the government you have ministers in the church and where that comes from the idea of you have the Romans 13 ministers that are servants in one realm and then you also have the officers of the church that are ministers uh in a different realm and that should mean something i it's uh it's striking that we don't still have that language um today that we use very much uh with the idea of um whether it's in the civil realm I can't do things uh that christ has told me not to do um same thing within uh the ecclesial realm it means that there are certain things that you you have to do because of Christ's um brand uh you're his servant uh and therefore this ministry of men the way that he is running the church is through them uh but he's not delegating his logging he's not delegating uh any of that authority in that way and through his word and spirit is the means by which this comes about uh sometimes Presbyterians are cold as it relates as you compare us to our Pentecostal brothers uh and thinking that we have no uh place for the spirit in our worship but in our preface we rightly recognize the proper work of the spirit uh in ministering to us the word of Christ from Christ himself perhaps even through the minister uh the spirit is actively engaging and working in the heart and we have a high view of the spirit uh in my opinion uh maybe not a Pentecostal view of the spirit but a high view that the spirit is the one that applies this truth to our lives the spirit is the one that regenerates and works within our hearts changing our hearts from a heart of stone to a heart of flesh it is the work of the spirit uh that that brings us Christ himself and so how do we see Christ as king it is comes through his word and his spirit his spirit is the one that that draws us to the throne I think as Calvin says in the sacraments even that we are drawn up to the heavenly places by the work of the spirit who draws us

Paragraph 4

SPEAKER_00 30:14

there.

SPEAKER_01 30:14

We move on down to paragraph four it says Christ as king has given to his church officers oracles and ordinances and especially has he ordained therein his system of doctrine government discipline and worship all of which are either expressly set down in Scripture or by good and necessary inference may be deduced therefrom and to which things he commands that nothing be added and that from them not be taken away.

SPEAKER_02 30:44

And so in this passage we we do see three gifts that Christ gives the church he gives the church uh officers oracles and ordinances officers are pretty self-explanatory as it relates to elders um spiritual leadership within the church oracles are um maybe a fancy way of saying the scriptures the word of God itself and then ordinances though they include sacraments are actually broader than the sacraments themselves uh the ordinances described here which will have further explanation as the paragraph goes on are the commands the orders that Christ gives to his church and that is specifically outlined in our doctrine our government our discipline and our worship as the passage goes on to say those are the specific ordinances that Christ gives our church as gifts uh and those all are bound within the relevancy of scripture itself set down and understood and so this paragraph deals with Christ as king and the gifts that he gives to his church.

SPEAKER_00 31:52

Jared do you have something to add to that yeah I find it interesting this the the way that ends you have language that's similar to the confession uh in talking about worship and it says by good and necessary inference um these things are deduced from and to which things he commands that nothing be added and that from them not be taken away, nothing be taken away. And in that you almost have a regulative principle of polity. You have this the limits of what you can do within the church and and you know adding officers, things like that that I've said before. This is actually I think another comfort is that you're not going to have you shouldn't have within the church men imposing uh in a sense their good ideas on you all the time. There should be a kind of a slowness to to moving and developing things within the church to make sure that uh things are being done according to scripture. In fact there's a quote by Bannerman that I love that basically Christ's crown in this area protects the people from us, from us pastors and our whims. He says there the rights and privileges of Christ's church are protected from the caprice and arbitrary encroachment of the office bearers by the restraint of Christ's express authority over them. And underneath his crown and sheltered by it is found the liberty wherein Christ has made his people free. So there is a great benefit here I think in chapter or paragraph four uh that in a sense is a uh protecting of the conscience and the liberty of people uh because uh we only have so much wiggle room in terms of what to do in the church.

Paragraph 5

SPEAKER_01 33:32

We'll move on to paragraph number five since the ascension of Jesus Christ to heaven he is present with the church by his word and spirit and the benefits of all his offices are effectually applied by the Holy Ghost I know we have some thoughts uh that we've made notes on to talk about here but I I don't know where I read it. I can't recall who said this but it stuck with me that this paragraph here at the end essentially says that without the Holy Spirit the church is dead that without him at work in what we are doing, there is no point to any of it, there is no life in any of it and that it that he must be at work as we seek to follow after the rules and and order that Christ has given to us. But I know that y'all have much more to say here.

SPEAKER_00 34:22

Well I think it's striking there just the language of after the ascension Jesus Christ is present. He is not an absentee ruler and the way that he is present is by word and spirit and how they're applied within the church I would say this is also through um his his word and all the different means in which we encounter it within the church the word preached uh through the sacraments that's the word made visible through praying back the word even through um the word applied in certain ways and discipline he's he is present in all of those uh ways um and this helps us understand that that this was something that within seminary led to my uh feeling a call to the church was to realize parachurch ministries are great they can be very helpful for things uh there's a lot of ways that you can serve uh Christ but within the church is the arena of Christ activity in the world and that is where he is present. Um it's also through uh the word preached he is present and uh Calvin does some interesting things with this um there's a guy named Hughes Oliphant Old he's written on reform worship and uh he has this coin this uh term that he coined the charismatic presence and it's the idea that Christ is present in the reading of the word and when it's rightly expounded in the preaching of the word so that when uh this is a weighty thing to preachers that when the preacher is accurately expounding God's word to his preacher, they're hearing Christ speak to them. Not due to anything in the preacher, but uh because that is his means of speaking uh with his people and he's dining with them in the Lord's Supper. And um it's just this last paragraph, there's there's such a comfort that's there that Christ is present with his people in in all of these uh these aspects Scott do you have anything to add here on paragraph five?

SPEAKER_02 36:17

I do not I yield my my time back to the moderator.

Concluding Thoughts

SPEAKER_00 36:22

Well as we uh as we close out our discussion of this first part of the preface uh we want to well say some things in conclusion but we have a couple of thoughts here part of what's being established here in uh the very first uh part of the BCO is that the church is Christ it's the foundation is in him uh he is present with the church he is ruling the church um I think it gives some meat to the simple creed Christ is Lord or um to quote somebody and when we quote somebody we don't agree with everything that they say but uh to quote Kanye West Jesus is king um it gives some meat to that right it gives some meat to it gives some meat to the idea of um Christ is is king and that that means for the church that uh in our study of ecclesiology he's he's lord over it and it's not ours right it's not my church um no pastor can say that no person in the pews can say that um our our primary question is not uh what do I want to see in the church happen or what do I want to what do I want to have um that um I'm being given as a consumer but if the audience is Christ and it is it's uh she is um uh his bride um then that's that's a primary motivator that we're uh going through we can't see the church as ours we have to see it kind of like how um guy waters in his book he crossed out how to run the church and says how Jesus run the church runs the church and so that's the rest of really looking at the BCO this is foundational to know we're not running the church. Christ is running the church.

SPEAKER_01 37:57

Even when we say Presbyterian rule by elders it's really rule by Christ through elders that's so good and so helpful um and as the uh well as the presiding moderator at least right now I'm gonna take the privilege of having the last word by adding to what Jared has just said that Presbyterianism is a matter of obedience. And I know that my Methodist brothers and my my congregationalist brothers you know you you who follow the episcopal form of church government I don't know how y'all do that. Presbyterianism as we've seen here is simply a matter of obedience and this this first part of the preface shows why the church the members of the church yes but especially the officers of the church it shows why we must understand and love our government as we talked about in our introduction episode we we love our form of government and we must seek to understand and uh know our form of government because it has been handed to us by Jesus and because he has given it to us. And so we are not Presbyterian because it works, although I like to remind people that it does work. Works rather well we're Presbyterian because our King commands that we must be Presbyterian and so we must obey him. Presbyterianism is a matter of obedience. I hope that you all have enjoyed our time in the beginning of the preface and as John Calvin would say this podcast is over. If you're interested in learning more about anything we spoke about check out the show notes in your podcast player or at politymatters dot org. If you've enjoyed the show consider following us on Twitter and Facebook at Polity Matters and subscribe in your podcast app of choice. Scott Edberg is a senior minister of Providence PCA in Troy Illinois and you can find him on Twitter at SEDberg if you're looking for Jared he's the pastor of New Life Presbyterian Church of Hopewell Township and he's on Twitter at Brother Nelson. He's also an editor over at Presbyterian Polity and you can find him writing around the internet from time to time so be on the lookout. I serve as the associate pastor at Covenant Presbyterian Church in Cleveland Mississippi I'm on Twitter at underscore Ben Ratliff and on Sermon Audio under Benjamin Ratliff. Say goodbye gentlemen see you later hope y'all come back to the body