Call A Spade A Spade (Episode1)

Join us for an eye-opening discussion with Michigan public school teacher Miss MayMay as she shares her candid insights on modern education challenges. This powerful episode explores the growing disconnect between classroom reality and educational policies, student engagement crisis, and the impact of shifting cultural norms on today's youth. Miss MayMay draws from her years of teaching experience to discuss practical solutions for rebuilding authentic student-teacher connections and addressing declining academic motivation.

Key topics include:

• Modern challenges in American public education
• Student engagement and academic motivation strategies
• Impact of current social trends on classroom dynamics
• Practical solutions for educators and parents

New episodes release every Tuesday.

Transcript

Welcome to Mindshift Power podcast, a show for teenagers and the adults who work with them, where we have raw and honest conversations. I'm your host, Fatima Bey, the mind shifter. And welcome. Today, we have here miss Mae Mae from Michigan. How are you today, miss Mae Mae?

I'm fine. Thank you. I appreciate being here. Well, we appreciate you coming on. So let's just dive right in.

I know I like people to get to the point when I listen to things. So, miss Mae Mae is a Spanish teacher from Michigan who's been teaching for twenty five years, well, really over twenty five years in the school districts for undeserved populations. So it is with this background that we have her on as a guest today. And today's topics, we're gonna talk about keeping it real with students, how political correctness is choking progress for our kids, and needing apathy for education. So, miss Mae Mae, what do you mean when you say keeping it real with students?

Oh, boy. Well, keeping it real is keeping it real meaning telling it like it is. Having the students understand why they're in school, what it is that they're there for, and how they can benefit from it. Okay. Well, what's the problem with not keeping it real with students?

We have come in our society to a point where, we're enabling these students to so called progress from grade to grade or from level to level based on societal pressures as opposed to academic prowess. And it makes it difficult to have these students who go into another grade per se unable to read past the fourth grade level. So I end up but everyone has to pass, and everyone has to go through. And I honestly think that this began with the no child left behind baloney where Mhmm. Where we had to pass them along without them having the information that they needed without them having to retain the information that they needed in order to progress in their abilities.

So if, you know, for example, I have students who are unable to read at the fourth grade level, but they were pushed on to fifth grade, sixth grade, seventh grade, eighth grade. Now they're in high school, and the teacher is being held accountable for these students' grades in order to get high marks on their evaluations from the administration. So it makes it difficult in the education field for a teacher to actually do what it is that they set out to do when they wanted to become teachers. You know, I wanted to help shape and mold the minds of youngsters that would then take over society in the future. And they instead, it's more of a what can we do to get them to pass.

Can I share a story really with our listeners? Yes. I of an example of exactly what you're talking about that I have personally dealt with. Number one, I used to teach English as a second language, and I had someone had come to me with their, little girl who was supposed to move on from the first grade into the second grade. They made the parents, doing the best they could, made a painstaking decision to hold her back.

They didn't you know, that has repercussions for the rest of their life, their school life, but also passing her through when she wasn't ready had a repercussion. So they had to make that decision. She could not yet read. She couldn't even read. And so they made that decision.

They came to me and said, can you please help? We don't know what to do. So short version, got the girl to read. Figured out what the problem was. They wanted to put her in special education.

I knew she didn't need it. I freaking hate it when people get when they put kids give them labels like special education when they don't need them. When they do need them and they get the help they need, it's beautiful. When they don't need it, it does more damage than good. I will But I I digress.

Yeah. I will I'm very passionate about that. Yeah. I will interrupt you with that because the truth is as a, second language teacher myself, I see that students who perhaps are native, for example, Spanish speakers that come into my Spanish class, they need to work on their and their their spelling and their reading, their writing and their reading because they speak it in their house, but they don't know how to read and write it. But that's not labeling them as a special needs student.

That should be labeling them as a second language student. And where we do a disservice with the second language students is they come in from another country and perhaps they're 14 years old. Mhmm. And they've just because they are speaking another language doesn't mean they don't understand the content of the material. Oh, that's a whole another show.

But that's a whole another show. I have worked with foreigners a lot, not just teaching you a second language, and that's one thing that pisses me off when we act like when someone has an accent or because they don't yet understand our language or they're not yet fluent in our language that they're stupid. In fact, Americans, we speak one language. How stupid are we? But that's the law.

Anyway Sounds like we both have a passion about that. That will be our next I I really do. So when it come when it go going back to the the young woman, for our listeners, the the little girl that I was helping got her to learn how to read, work with her parents, told them what they needed to do at home in order to to help the process. There was a teacher that was helping minimally because that was all she could do, but at least she was she was helping. And this by the next year, this girl was at the top of her class.

She went from not being able to read, looking at me in the eye with almost tears in her in her face saying, I can't everybody else can read, but I can't, which made my heart drop. And then maybe but it made me more determined to make sure that this girl got what she needed. So if if they had passed her on, like, the systems say that she should, how much of a failure would she be right now? And, also, I used to work at Job Corps. For a little while, I taught math at Job Corps.

This is my other example. When I taught math at Job Corps, most of my students now the students at Job Corps are between the ages of 16 and 24 to get into the program. And for those of you that don't know what Job Corps is, it's an alternative program, to help people that would otherwise end on end up on welfare, to be able to get, become employable and get their their education GED or high school if they don't already have it. Some already have a high school degree. Now now that you understand what Job Corps is, I taught math there for a little bit.

A lot of the students that came in there were ninth, tenth, eleventh, twelfth, or higher grade, but their math level was at the third grade level. They couldn't even do multiplication table. Didn't look down on for it. Okay. Let's assess where you are.

Let's figure out how to how to make you better. So I found a way to get their attention, which is hard, especially when it comes to math, which a lot of people hate. I love math. So I found a way to get their attention and get them to actually try. And I had one student.

I remember this I remember this this this boy. I loved him. I got him to do a complex math problem on the board in front of the classroom. And the truth is I made up the problem, and there really wasn't an answer that they were going to get to without a calculator. I knew that already.

But getting to the answer wasn't the point their effort was. So I pushed and pushed and pushed and got these kids to go beyond any anywhere they'd ever gone before and to see that they actually have intelligence. Because when when I got done with this one kid, he tried so hard. I mean, he literally tried his hardest, and he got really far with it. He got really as far as any of us could get without a calculator, honestly, unless you're a super genius.

And I'm not nine sign. I'm smart, but I'm not nine sign. So, you know, I got him I got him to go. And it was amazing because after class, and this is something I did not know about him, he was labeled special special education his whole life, and I did not know that. I looked at him and I said, what?

Because that's not what I saw when I looked at him. I saw an intelligent man who just needed to be his buttons to be pushed in the right places. And and I was just like, but but it's there. The intelligence is there. It's just that our systems only teach one way, so we only reach one type of learning situation.

One type of of learning type rather, and that's a large part of our our system. But, again, that's another show. I think well, I think that when you when you ask what keeping it real means, I think that that's an important aspect of the keeping it real with the students that it's not just the students that need to be kept real. It it's society. It's the parents.

It's the administration. It's the classmates. I like to provide a safe environment for my students to take chances, and I tell them that poll body is nerfect. And I think I love maybe other people have heard that before. I haven't, but that's hilarious.

It is something I would say. I love it. Go ahead. Thank you. So I think that it is important for people to understand that if they can look themselves in the mirror and say, I busted my can I say it on air, I busted my ass and I worked hard and I achieved that b minus or that c plus, I I'm proud of me for doing that as opposed to the kid who says, I just googled it and got an a, and they don't retain that material or that information?

So I think by keeping it real, it's important for students to look themselves in the mirror and say, hey. Am I doing the best I can to give myself a leg up, to advocate for myself when I need it, to get that that math student who might be up high on the reading tests, but not on the math tests. But Let me ask you something Yes. Related to what you're just saying. For the student that, you know, you said that you that they should do their best to try to reach their highest heights Mhmm.

And maybe sometimes, do more initiation to try to help themselves. I'm just rewording what you said, and correct me if I'm wrong. Mhmm. How do you suggest they do that? That's a really good question.

I think that as an educator, it's my job to provide the comfort zone and build a relationship with my students so that they feel comfortable coming to me, and then I can direct them to the guidance counselor or to their math teacher directly. And I'm just using math as an example because you picked it up earlier. I think that with the societal pressures nowadays, students have a problem being themselves because they want to fit into society. And I think that if there is a way to break down that barrier and stand up for themselves so I like to try and and say things in the classroom. Like, if anybody has any questions, nobody asks, and then one person kind of Mhmm.

Slowly raises their hand and and kind of hesitates because they don't wanna call attention to themselves, I always say to that student, thank you for having the courage to ask a question. I'm sure there are other people in here that will benefit from it as well. And that's good, giving them that positive, enforcement when they do raise their hand because for a lot of the teenagers, because I work with teenagers a lot, it's difficult for them to to just simply do that, to raise their hands or speak up or speak out because everybody's staring at them and you're under all this pressure to be whatever they think they're supposed to be. I now I I have another question for you. Okay.

Let me let me just you say that that, you know, they're looking and they have a a they're worried about what other people might say. And I almost wanna blame technology on that because I have teenagers that sit in the back seat of my car and text each other, and they're sitting next to each other, and they won't converse because they don't know how to communicate orally. Right. And I think that that's what I enjoy about having the Spanish classes because it makes them have to use language orally and auditorily to get a point across or to explain a concept or or, you know, even if it's just calling out colors and numbers. They're actually using voice to do it, which I hope will translate into conversation or communication in some respect.

Mhmm. Now we talked about you talked about having be keeping it real with students, and and I'm gonna reword that as being able to just speak truth. Okay. Mhmm. Being able and and correct me if I'm wrong.

Being able to just call a spade a spade, as you said to me before. Yeah. I I completely agree, but I think it's an issue that goes far beyond our school system. It's an issue in our society, and it's a large part of why I started this podcast. I wanted to create a space where people can actually speak honestly without having to worry about being canceled or having, you know, oh, you can't say this this.

You can't say that. This person's gonna be offended. That one's gonna be offended. I think that as a society, we need to start focusing on who we're helping instead of who we're offending. Completely different mentalities.

I love that. And I will tell you that when I give an example, I, you know, I hear bickering in the classroom. Even amongst dark skinned black people and light skinned black people, I want I can't necessarily say African American because I have a friend from Jamaica, and he's black. And if you call him African American, he says, I'm from Jamaica, man. You know?

So Yeah. You know, I and and so I use the term black as a General term. General generalization. Because when my daughter was little and she goes, why do they say black and white, mommy? My skin's peach.

So, you know what? Kids are so logical. Yes. And I love looking at at society through the eyes of the young ones because my daughter didn't understand even the, the black and white thing until she had to do a Black History Month project. And she picked, a tennis player, a black tennis player, because she played tennis at the time.

Mhmm. Okay. And to her, it was just a famous tennis player. It wasn't a black tennis player. And society has put these labels on us where instead of being of the human race, we're categorized by our skin color, by our religion, by our ethnicity, by our gender decisions.

And Mhmm. It's it's disheartening. But so these kids were bickering in my classroom one day, and I said, look. We're going to a party, and it's at Johnny's house. And I walk in with Mary, and Mary sees a bunch of white kids.

Does she go over to hang out with the white kids and I go over to hang out with the Latino kids and Johnny goes to hang out with the black kids? I said, no. And they go, oh, miss. You being racist? I said, no.

I'm not. Listen to what I have to say. The three of us hang together because we're all Puerto Rican. It doesn't matter that one of us has blonde hair and blue eyes, and one of us has black skin and an Afro from the seventies, and the other one is an olive colored skin and stands only four foot seven. It because we are all, we are going to hang together.

It's not the black people and the white people and the Hispanic people. Completely agree. Good boy. That's really a whole another show. We could go into that topic.

Let's talk about that. About keeping it real. You know? Yes. I I agree.

That's a part of what I was that's a part of, what the, you know, conversation that we had even before this Mhmm. Recording of this podcast that it's Which we should have recorded. It was so rich. Right? I know.

But it's it's so we are in a society. We are so off balance when it comes to a lot of things and especially when it comes to expression, when it comes to verbiage. We are very off balance. We think as a white woman, the second you say black oh, you're being racist. You're talking about race.

A black person, the second they say something about you being white oh, you're being racist too. No. If you actually listen to the content of what I'm saying, I'm talking about bigger things than just race. Right. You are white.

I am black. That is not all we are. That is not all we are. I am a black woman. I am proud to be a black woman, but that's not all I am.

That's not all I talk about. That's not a % of me. Right. You know? And I said the same thing.

I was talking to a person who's gay, and I was like, yeah. You're gay. So what? What else are you? It's like, can we focus on other things?

Can we talk about other parts of you instead of just focusing on one? And it's not that those things don't matter, aren't important, but we're giving them a % attention when we should be giving them 50% attention. Or less. Because if you ask me from what culture I come, I can tell you, well, I'm part of the Latina culture because I I feel That means the Latin culture inside her body because you don't speak Spanish. I speak Spanish too, so I know what she said.

But I'm also a mom. Mhmm. So I'm part of the mom culture. I'm a dog owner. I'm part of that culture.

I was in a sorority in in college. I was part of the Greek culture. I'm an athlete. I'm part of the jock culture. You know?

So there's more to us, and then you go into religion. You can go into Right. We just for people to categorize. And I think that when I go back to the students in school, working in an underserved population where they're written off or we don't have the technology that they need in the classroom to give them that leg up. Mhmm.

I think it's important for us to say, hey. Let's advocate for ourselves and get what we need so that you can get the leg up. Like, I'm giving you what you need. Why don't you suck it in? You know?

Take it and and run with it. And there, you know, there are some that do, and there are others that, you know, it's like, no. You're not going to be the next Steph Curry because the guy who works hard at being the next Steph Curry is going to be the next Steph Curry. Now for our listeners, I like to keep our listeners in the room with us, for this interview. I I will say I know that there are many, many, many who agree with you.

There are also many who disagree with some of the things you just said. And Yeah. On this show, I like to hear from all of you because I think that everybody has, most people do have valid viewpoints even if they have some silly viewpoints. Somewhere in the mix is is a little bit of truth somewhere. Alright.

So we think that we should be able to to start keeping it real in our society. Let's take it to the extremes because that's what we do in our society. Let's say everybody says everything they want, whenever they want, all the time. Would that also be a problem? Yes.

Somewhere, where does the filter come in? And, you know, you we we talked a little bit earlier about the kid who wasn't able to read and and couldn't pass into the next grade, but then you have people that say, yeah. But how can you put a 15 year old back in eighth grade? Because they're either gonna drop out of school or they're going to, you know, be ridiculed or whatever. Mhmm.

And the the the student who has the street smarts is going to say I I mean, I had a kid tell me that I needed to shut up because I was gonna get bitch slapped if I didn't. And this is from a 15 year old kid. I I I was dumbfounded, but I couldn't write him up because he didn't hit me. All he was yep. All he was doing was talking.

So He still threatened you. Well right? But like you said, can anybody say anything about anything, everything, anywhere? And that is taking it to the other extreme. I agree.

I I don't know where our society stopped. There's a fine line between calling a spade a spade and you know? Because I shoulda turned around, and I coulda said to him, look, you little SOB. Who the hell do you think you are talking to an adult like that? But if this student talks like that at home to his parents and his parents talk back to him like that, that's the norm for him.

So our societal norms vary from location to location, from people to people, from culture to culture. You know, like, if I'm on the basketball court and I I throw a bad pass, I and I go, oops. I'm sorry. I'm gonna sound like a ding a ling. But if I say, oh, my bad, and I just hit my chest and we keep playing, then I fit in.

Whereas in the classroom, if I trip over somebody's foot and I go, oh, my bad, they're like, does this teacher know what she's talking about? I should have said, I'm sorry. I didn't mean it. So I think dialectical differences come into play Good point. Okay.

In that regard as well. And like you said, it's so multifaceted that when I say keeping it real, I think keeping it real has to start with this multifaceted conversation because the education system is broken. Very. And Like shattered glass. And I've watched it over the last twenty five years just diminish because people don't seem to respect an education per se.

And that I mean, I could go off on on 20 more tangents. Is it because the teacher is only getting paid the same thing that the guy working at McDonald's is because we've upped the minimum wage to make it a living wage. Well, a teacher has to have x number of degrees and x number of continuing education to maintain a certification. And then when COVID hit, you know, all of a sudden, parents are like, oh, teachers are worth something. But now that we're back in the classroom, teachers are back to being second class citizens according to the government.

You know? We could just go on and on and take I call them octopus tentacles because I wanna go back to, what you had said when when I had asked you about, you know, going to the extreme of just saying anything you want all the time anywhere. And I agree. We don't wanna do that either. My point in asking that question is the fact that in our society and, again, this is not just in schools, but schools reflect what's going on in our societies.

Mhmm. Mhmm. We need balance. Amen. We only operate in extremes.

Look at the look at the left and the right parties, political parties. Both parties are primarily been taken over by extreme nut jobs. So both parties are are at extremes right now. Absolutely. I mean, really, the the the if the Republicans a lot of Republicans don't even wanna admit they're Republican anymore.

And then you have the Democrats, which are just just cuckoo. Woo hoo. There's air in my head to the extremes. Okay. Well, there's a lot of us that are in the middle that aren't in those extremes.

We might have the political party on paper, be a part of the political party on paper, but we're not those extremes. But, yeah, you can lean fiscally one way and. Right. Right. And for me, I'm I'm really, truly, truly, truly in the middle.

Yeah. Some things I'm I'm very Republican on and some things I'm quite Democratic on. It depends on the subject matter you're talking about. But that's just an example of the extremes where, of the extremities we go to in our society. I call it being a mental extremist.

If you think about that all all or nothing principle, black and white Right. There's those shades of gray. If you think about the sun coming up, the sun doesn't automatically show up in a dark sky, and it's a good analogy. Yeah. It slowly rises.

Right. And then the moon, it slowly sets, and the moon comes up. And it it's it's a phase that that it goes through, which many people think if you are not on a the 100 or the zero, as you said, that you are wishy washy, and you're somewhere in the middle that, oh, you can't make a decision. That's your problem. Whereas Mhmm.

What these students and and and in schools, we are teaching to a test. Circle the right answer and bubble it in. Well, for example, I I've been a lifeguard and had my CPR instructors for years. I can't get a % on my CPR multiple choice test because in my head, I'm like, well, if it were raining, answer would be a. But if it were sunny, the answer would be b.

I think like you. I get it. But and so that you know, so I think that what these students need to learn is that it's not always an a or b answer. It's not always all of the above or none of the above. Yes.

Yes. You need to so the component that we're missing is the critical thinking, and that's where students don't just ask what, but they ask the how and the why. Yes. And we are missing as a society the how and the why. And I'm gonna take it back to picking up my Google and being able to if if she asks me a question about, you know, what time does the sunrise, I can Google it, and it'll give me the answer in zero point o two four seven seconds.

But you didn't ask me when the sun rose in the Eastern time zone or in Guam, which is actually yesterday for me, but tomorrow for you. Mhmm. Or you know? So my question to you should have been, when do you want to know or where do you want to know when the sun rises? Right.

I see that as context. Yes. So what I'm hearing from you is I said part of the solution is being, solution oriented. And what I hear from you is the is the other part of just, a a different part of the recipe for for success, is to not just think black and white. Yes.

In order to find your solution, I have to stir in my mixed wet white wet ingredients and dry ingredients. Right. Exactly. So what I'm hearing so far is being solution oriented, which has to do with a mentality because that's where everything starts. Everything in your life does start with mentality.

All your your victories, your failures, they all start with your thinking. So and that's what I tend to focus on, so that's why I bring it up. But being solution oriented, that has to do with your mindset. And then not just thinking in terms of black and white and understanding that there are thousands of colors in between. And then context.

Context. Context. There are people who foolishly say, no. It's it's one or the other. Context doesn't matter.

And I say foolishly because if that's the way you think, you fool. I'm just gonna say straight up that's foolish. It's foolish. Context does matter because like you said, the time zones. If you're talking about something like the sun rising, what time does the sunrise?

Well, if you're talking about here, that's one answer. If you're talking about in Nigeria, that's a different answer, etcetera etcetera. We we don't always look at context, which is why when you see something on TV and or on TV or social media, whatever the media form is that's giving you news about a person, please don't just accept it what it is because I find that 80% of the time context is removed. They're only giving you facts without all of the facts. Context are some of the facts, and so they're painting a different picture and giving a different narrative than the actual truth.

Fact and truth are not the same thing. Truth contains some facts, but truth does not only contain some facts just like cake doesn't just contain flour. Amen. You know? So right.

Preach your little sister. So, but yeah. So where our time is running our time is running out because we got so much of where I wanna talk about. But I do wanna hit on we talked about apathy in education. Okay.

Tell the audience, what does apathy mean? I think apathy is the lack of desire for anything. When you are apathetic about something, it means you really don't care what's going on one way or the other. It's just like, meh. Right.

So when you say apathy for education, you're what you're saying is that our youth today, and this is speaking in general terms, our youth today doesn't give a crap about education. I would tend to agree in that because of values that have been instilled in them at home or not. And so in some cultures, education is important, and those students put forth the effort. It might be external motivation. Some of them might have some internal motivation for it.

But then the others are just like, well, I don't need to learn that because as I referred to before, Google can give me my answer. There's no need for me to retain knowledge because I can use the Internet to find information. Good point. Very good point because we didn't grow up with the Internet. We had encyclopedias, and you had to go to library.

Yes. And you had to and then you had to memorize it because, you know, if you shut that book, you're like, oh, which which did I get it out of Britannica, or did I get it out of the other? Right. Right. You know?

Well So so when when it comes to apathy for education, we definitely see that as a problem. And I I agree with you because I you know, working with youth, I see it. I it depends on the crowds you're talking about because in and it really does. Not all youth are the same, just like not all adults are the same. When I have some teenagers' guests on, I will talk about that subject a little bit more with them because I I know that many listeners agree with you that that is an issue, but I also wanna hear it from a teen's perspective since they're the ones we're talking about.

Exactly. And we'll talk about that in the future. But what I wanna ask you, as, as we end this particular episode, what do you have to say to the teenagers who are listening right now? Oh, the message I'd like to give is to get out there and make a difference. Take a stand for something that you value, find why you value it, and then communicate that information to the rest of us as opposed to just following blindly like sheep.

Make sure that you actually have passion and compassion, and take the time to you know, if stand up for what is right. And and and, you know, if you there's a country music song that says if you can't stand up for something, don't fall for anything. Mhmm. And I think that the more that you become informed about whatever it is that brings you passion, make a difference with it. And with that, I agree.

Amen. Woo hoo. What? With that, we will, end this episode. And thank you, miss Mei Mei from Michigan, for, for agreeing to come on here and give us your thoughts.

And now for a mind shifting moment. If you are an adult out there listening and you work with youth or you have a teenager of of any age, I want you to think about this. When we don't allow them to express themselves freely, and I mean in conversation, I'm only talking about conversation, We need to allow them to speak their minds and speak the truth as they see it even if they're absolutely dead wrong. It is so important that they're able to express themselves to you because if they can express themselves to you, they're not going to come to you when they need to. They need to feel free to speak their minds and speak their opinions even if they're not popular, even if you disagree.

Because then you have an opportunity to talk about why that opinion exists and do something about it. Listen to your teens instead of telling them how they should think. Listen to how they're already thinking. Maybe you can give them good guidance. They're not gonna listen to you if you don't listen to them.

And if you're a teen out there right now, I want you to stop bowing down to political correctness. You do not have to worship everybody else's emotions. You can stand up and speak up for yourself even if what you have to say is not popular. Have conversations with people. Whether they agree with you or not, try to have conversations because no solutions can come from you shutting up and sitting down.

Every single societal thing that has changed in the world has come from somebody standing up against the tide, against what's common, and speaking their minds. I think that many of you hold the solutions to your problems, but you're just not speaking up to have the conversations you need to have to make them happen. Thank you for listening to mind shift power podcast. Please like and subscribe to my YouTube channel at the mind shifter. If you have any comments, topic suggestions, or would like to be a guest on the show, please visit FatimaBay.com/podcast.

Remember, there's power in shifting your thinking. Tune in for next week.