Is Your Culture Making Your Trauma Worse? (Episode 78)

Ever wondered how culture shapes our understanding of trauma? Join me, Fatima Bey, on the MindShift Power Podcast as Erica Bess, a licensed therapist specializing in trauma, and I explore this intriguing question. We unravel the complex relationship between cultural backgrounds and trauma, particularly in the lives of teenagers. Discover how the unique cultural landscapes within countries like the United States, Switzerland, and India influence perceptions of trauma. Through personal stories and historical contexts, we discuss the profound impact cultural heritage and generational trauma have on our worldview, offering a fresh perspective on the challenges teens face today.

We journey through time, touching on intergenerational trauma, from my African-American grandmother's experiences during the Jim Crow era to the lingering scars of the Bosnian War and Mao Zedong's China. Erica and I shine a light on how cultural contexts can amplify trauma, sometimes creating barriers to seeking help. By delving into microaggressions and the pervasive issue of misogyny, particularly in misogynistic societies, we aim to challenge societal norms and encourage a more compassionate understanding of these complex issues.

Our conversation takes a deeper dive into unpacking trauma responses and cultural mindsets, offering listeners a new lens to view human behavior. Erica brings her expertise to the table, helping us explore how what may seem irrational could be a trauma response within a particular cultural context. This episode is an invitation to rethink our judgments and embrace empathy, all while fostering discussions that could potentially transform young lives around the globe. Be sure to subscribe to stay engaged with these life-changing conversations.

To learn more about Erica Bess, please click below.

EricaBess.com

Chapters

• 0:01 Cultural Background and Trauma Impact
• 4:52 Intergenerational Trauma and Cultural Impact
• 11:43 Cultural Bias and Trauma Impact
• 24:29 Unpacking Trauma Responses and Cultural Mindsets

Transcript

Fatima Bey: 0:01

Welcome to MindShift Power Podcast, the only international podcast focused on teens, connecting young voices and perspectives from around the world. Get ready to explore the issues that matter to today's youth and shape tomorrow's world. I'm your host, fatima Bey the MindShifter, and welcome everyone. Today we have with us Erica Bess, the Trauma Master. She is a licensed therapist. She has over 12 years of experience as a social worker and therapist. She also owns Empower Therapy and she specializes in trauma, and you have heard her before and you will hear her again. How are you doing today, erica?

Erica Bess: 0:45

I'm doing well. How are you, Fatima?

Fatima Bey: 0:47

I'm good. I'm really looking forward to this conversation. I think it's extremely relevant and something that people just don't talk about.

Erica Bess: 0:53

Absolutely your specialty.

Fatima Bey: 0:56

It's both of our specialties put together in one place, really.

Erica Bess: 0:59

Definitely.

Fatima Bey: 1:00

Let's start off by defining what culture is okay. Okay, let's start off by defining what culture is Okay. Culture is it's encompassing beliefs and values, it's traditions, behaviors, it's all together and it shapes our worldview. That's what a culture is. Now, as an American, I'm in the midst of an American culture. I understand many other cultures, but we're talking about culture today and oh, how it's so relevant to teens. But this topic is especially important for teens because of where we are in the world right now and where we're headed. And I just want to point out the fact that culture, just because someone's from a country, doesn't mean that they come from the same culture. For example, erica is from Brooklyn. She's from New York City. I am from Minneapolis, in the Midwest Minnesota. We're both from the United States of America, but our cultures could not be more different. Our cultures could not be more different. Our cultures could not be more different and we're in the same country. Another example is New York City I mean, yeah, new York State, just anywhere in New York, and then, versus Texas, we're in the same country, but culturally we couldn't be more different.

Fatima Bey: 2:18

Let me tell you guys something about Switzerland. Do you know Switzerland? They have officially four languages as their national languages. I believe Italian is one, but the two that I remember the most is French and German. They're on opposite ends of Switzerland, they're in different parts of Switzerland. Look at a map and that makes sense. Look at the countries at their border, but do you think that their cultures are the same in those two areas? They're not At all. They're not. They're too different.

Fatima Bey: 2:49

And look at India. We think of India. Most people outside of India well, let me rephrase that Most Americans, who are very ignorant about most of Asia, think of India as one culture and one people. And that is so silly to me, because I understand India has hundreds of languages. Some are big and some are small. Not everybody speaks Hindi. There are people that speak English. There are people that speak no English at all. They have so many different cultures and languages within their borders. Just because a country has a title and a name doesn't mean the people within it are all the same, and that is something that people often think about. That people often assume incorrectly, right, right? So now, now that I explained all of that, that is very relevant to the rest of this conversation. I just wanted to put that understanding out there. So, erica of this conversation, I just wanted to put that understanding out there. So, erica, right now talk about the impact of cultural background on trauma. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

Erica Bess: 3:52

Absolutely so a lot of times. Cultural backgrounds obviously that comes from generations before us and it shapes how we think, it shapes the things that we do and a lot of times it forms our morals and it sometimes makes us look at the world through a different lens because of the people that came before us. It shapes how we look at things as well. So a lot of times when you're coming from a traumatized background, you have a tendency to look at things from a traumatized standpoint, because not that you to look at things from a traumatized standpoint, because not that you've necessarily gone through that trauma, but people that have reared you and have reared the people that have reared you have gone through trauma.

Erica Bess: 4:34

And then you pick up that mindset and kind of look at things from a hypervigilant standpoint or just very just on edge most of the time and you become traumatized through that, you know. And then you're going to experience your own trauma as well, but this is your generational trauma that's having an effect on you.

Fatima Bey: 4:52

I'm going to give an example of my own, my own personal family, my grandmother. Now I'm African-American, I'm Black. My grandmother grew up she was born in the I think the 30s I forget how long ago but my grandmother grew up Black, was born in the I think the 30s I forget how long ago, but my grandmother grew up black in America, so naturally she grew up during Jim Crow. She grew up. I remember constantly hearing from my grandmother stuff about white people, why she was traumatized by what she had gone through, what that whole generation well generations went through as black people in america right and she constantly had it in her head, the separation of black and white.

Fatima Bey: 5:38

Now, because I grew up in minneapolis and I am part white because my mother's half white, I I grew up in Minneapolis I didn't grow up with that mindset at all because in Minneapolis, where I grew up, it was the opposite, like the idea of it was just the opposite. So we didn't yeah, I didn't grow up with that sort of a, that sort of trauma. Racism is built into American culture. It still exists and it still is. We've been working on it but we haven't arrived yet. So it still is. So that impacted my grandmother's worldview and she was a sweetheart, she was hilarious Don't piss her off which is I inherited her genes.

Erica Bess: 6:24

Right, I was just about to say that. You took it right out of my mouth like oh, you take after your grandma, okay?

Fatima Bey: 6:30

I'm nice and sweet until you push just the right button. Then you better move out of town and hide your family and get plastic surgery and change your name. That's all I ask. So anyway, no, but really. But my grandmother used to always make these statements and me and my sister would just kind of dismiss them because we understood where she was coming from?

Erica Bess: 6:48

She's coming from a traumatized point of view.

Fatima Bey: 6:50

But let's talk about being Black in America. We are still traumatized by that.

Erica Bess: 6:56

Right, we have our own each level of traumatization of that experience.

Fatima Bey: 7:01

It becomes less and less with each generation if we work at it. Yes, but trauma and I'm using the example of Black America because that's what we both are and we understand but this is true for people in China, people who went through older generations that were under Mao Zedong. They think differently than this younger generation. They were traumatized by some of that stuff, you know, the the uh, uh, just oh, so much stuff. They were traumatized by that and they pass that down to other people.

Fatima Bey: 7:36

I know a friend who her she's, she's a white American. Her grandmother, her grandparents, they went through the great depression. Her grandmother, her grandparents, they went through the great depression, so they had a mindset of salvage everything, save everything, wrap everything in plastic don't. They didn't have this wasteful right, didn't have this wasteful mindset that we now have. I just know that. I just remember us having this conversation about it. Uh, the generational differences, and actually that's what we were talking about. But for her they were traumatized and that trauma got passed on to her parents. They were taught to be, I would say, overly cautious. It's good to be wise, it's good to be frugal, but they were overly cautious because of the trauma of the Great Depression. Right, that makes sense to me. So I'm just giving examples that we can all relate to from where I am as an American.

Fatima Bey: 8:35

But if you're in a different country, you have been traumatized by war. I have met people in this country from all over the world. I absolutely love it. One of the countries that I will never, ever forget is the Bosnian War. I forget when it happened. I think it was the late 90s. It was sometime in the 90s, so forgive me, I don't remember the year, but I worked with people who went through that war.

Fatima Bey: 8:59

It permanently traumatized them. They never were the same after that, traumatized them. They never were the same after that, and they shared personal stories with me. Some of them shared stories with me that had never come out of their mouth to anyone before, and I felt very honored and humbled by that. But I was also wowed. I don't even know what word to give it but it affected them. And then you have to. You went through this war and now you come over to America, to this totally different culture where people other you because you don't speak English yet, and just how do you react to that? So my point in saying all that is cultural background affects your trauma as well, because it's not just you know. As Erica said before, trauma affects your worldview period, but then couple that with your cultural background, right, that makes it worse.

Erica Bess: 9:51

So, talking, about Definitely intensifies.

Fatima Bey: 9:54

Yes, it can intensify. It can actually make it worse, because it can make you not seek the help that you need. But we're going to talk about that in a second. Let's talk about microaggressions, because I think microaggressions people don't necessarily understand. We use the word constantly but not enough examples are given outside of being Black in America. Okay so, because that's the only time I ever hear it spoken of Right Microaggressions how would you define microaggressions, erica?

Erica Bess: 10:24

A statement, an action or an incident regarded as an incident of indirect, subtle or unintentional discrimination against members of a marginalized group, such as racial or ethnic minorities.

Fatima Bey: 10:39

There we go. So I have some examples. I pulled up some examples for this episode and in this particular example these are statements made to women in misogynistic societies. I want to say something about that for a second. When people think of misogynistic societies most at least Americans I don't know about outside of America, but in America people often associate that with Muslim communities.

Erica Bess: 11:13

Yes.

Fatima Bey: 11:14

But that is so narrow it is, and it is, yeah, it's definitely true in some Islamic countries. There's so much more than that, but it's so much. It's definitely true in some, in some islamic countries absolutely so much more than that, but it's so much, it's not just them yeah I would say this is an issue in much of africa, much of asia, almost all of eastern europe I think it's probably in all parts of the world it's it, yeah, more than others, but those are the top places I can think of.

Fatima Bey: 11:43

I'm sure there's other places that I'm not naming because I just don't know them, but those are the ones that come to the top of my head. So don't just think of oh, you're talking about people in the Middle East. No, there I can name certain countries, like Ecuador, for example. They're known for that. There are many countries in the and that's over. On this side of the world. There are many countries in the world for which, for whom this is an issue where the misogyny is built into their culture. It's baked in as much as racism is baked into America, and it does affect how they deal with their trauma. So I'm going to read these statements You're so pretty, you don't need to be smart. Fatima theoretically reaches out and smacks that person upside the head. Now, people actually say stupid statements like that to women. They really do.

Erica Bess: 12:32

And expect them to feel confident.

Fatima Bey: 12:34

Exactly. Can you handle this task? It's quite challenging for a woman, I'm sorry. It's hard not to laugh at these stupid statements. Oh, that's a nice idea, but let's hear what the men think. That's a real statement that women around the world really do hear. Another one is you should dress more modestly to avoid attracting unwanted attention.

Erica Bess: 12:58

Oh, my goodness.

Fatima Bey: 12:59

This is what people say in rape culture. I'm just saying that's a real statement that gets said to people in cultures where rape is blamed on the woman.

Erica Bess: 13:08

I had that happen to me just at work when I was about 14, 15 years old. I was dressed in business attire because my school wanted us to learn how to prepare for interviews and going forward with being in the corporate world.

Fatima Bey: 13:23

So on.

Erica Bess: 13:23

Mondays we had to wear, you know, business attire and this weirdo came into the library that I was working at and he said some inappropriate things to me and I told the librarian. They ended up calling the police. The police said to me at 14, 15 years old well, maybe you shouldn't dress so adult. Looking that way, men won't say anything to you. And I was like, sir, I go to a school that is preparing me for a career and to be professional. What I have on is not inappropriate. And how dare you say that to me?

Fatima Bey: 13:57

That was just promoting a victim culture Like yeah, it's crazy, yeah, and this happens around the world, in different cultures more so than others, but it's, it's disgusting, it really is. But my point in bringing up those microaggressions is that sometimes we don't recognize our cultural biases. Let me rephrase that, because it's not just about cultural bias Sometimes we don't recognize the bad things in our culture the misogyny, the racism, the ageism, whatever it is in your particular culture, because every culture has their own thing, right. But sometimes we don't recognize the things that are in our culture that actually make our trauma 10 times worse, right? Imagine being raped and then being told a stupid ass statement like that.

Erica Bess: 14:55

Yeah.

Fatima Bey: 14:57

Then you're going to blame yourself for it even more than you probably already are Right then you're going to blame yourself for it even more than you probably already are Right. So sometimes how we say things, people, it matters. Nigerians, it matters, jamaicans, it matters, chinese it matters. I'm just picking up random cultures, but y'all get the point. It really matters how we address things that people go through. It matters because we make people worse. Erica, explain to them how these statements actually make trauma worse.

Erica Bess: 15:36

It can just intensify what you're already experiencing from that trauma and just chip away at your self-esteem. And when your self-esteem is being chipped away at, it makes your foundation unsteady. And then you doubt everything that you have going for yourself and then you just maybe even self-sabotage because you just don't think that you're worth anything good or you can't accomplish anything great. And then you cut yourself out of opportunities because you just don't see yourself in that light, because you've allowed that traumatic mindset to overcome you Right, you can't fly.

Fatima Bey: 16:15

And also I want to talk about being judgmental when it comes to other cultures. So this podcast is an international podcast for teens and anything that affects their future. This subject affects their future because we need teenagers. Listen up, we need you to be better than us, my generation and the generation before we've left you a mess for real. I feel like we. I feel like we've left you a mess and I'm speaking in general terms actually easier for you to be compassionate, it's easier for you to gain a better understanding of bigger picture things and make better decisions in your own life, absolutely Because understanding other people's cultures is a way to break the cycle.

Fatima Bey: 17:16

Yes, thank you, erica, for saying that. Can you explain how?

Erica Bess: 17:20

that's true. Yes, Thank you, Erica, for saying that. Hey, well, in my friend's family they don't do this and I thought that was normal, you know. And then you might realize like, oh, maybe that it isn't so normal. It makes you question things that you've gone through and it expands your mind to be able to understand people and also accept them and learn to embrace them, no matter their differences as well, and that's how we create unity as well.

Fatima Bey: 18:07

Yes, and especially for young women, if you come from a culture that's misogynistic in any kind of way, because there are varying degrees of it. So every misogynistic country culture is not the same, so please also understand that. But if you come from a culture where women are secondary in any kind of way, you are already thinking in ways that are self-sabotaging and you don't even realize it because it's ingrained in you. It's important to be around people that are different than you. Now again, if you're listening, I have a challenge for you. I want you to get to know someone who's totally different. If you are in Japan and there's some Africans or Black Americans or somebody near you that you don't know, get to know them. You've never met any before. Get to know them. If you are white American, you come from a racist family, redneck, whatever word you want to call it get to know a black person who grew up in the hood.

Erica Bess: 19:10

yeah, right and keep an open mind, because you don't want those micro aggressions to come out like really have an open mind and get to know the person for who they are you're going to find out that you're a lot more like them than you think.

Fatima Bey: 19:22

exactly that's something I've learned through observation, having worked with, actually, both of those communities from a supervisory standpoint Right.

Erica Bess: 19:30

You might find your best friend.

Fatima Bey: 19:32

Yeah, for real, for real. But it doesn't matter what the difference is. The difference doesn't have to be race. The difference could be cultural. You might be the same race, but cultural differences. You grew up in the Northeast. You only know the Northeast type of mindset. Someone's from the deep South. Get to know them because they're from a different culture too. It's not only race. Just get to know somebody different than you. It will expand and open up your mind and let her talk to those who are around, people who are traumatized. Let me rephrase that youth who are traumatized.

Erica Bess: 20:22

And tell them how they can deal with them or help. Well, in order to deal with the youth that are traumatized, they're going to have to be able to get a support system and most times nine times out of 10, there is no support system for them. So I would like to offer my services to them and, even if it's for a consultation, just to talk to somebody and reach out and connect with ericabestcom, they can reach me there. They need to be able to have people that they can trust and look up to and feel safe talking about what they've experienced.

Erica Bess: 21:00

And, like you said, with the misogynistic tendencies within a lot of the cultures and I'll use rape as an example how many women do you think are, like, just so afraid to come forward or even say that somebody did something to them, because of fear of being shamed for even being assaulted, you know. So there's a lot of girls out there that are sitting and holding their trauma deep down and they're trying to keep it stuffed down, but it's affecting, I'm sure, deep down and they're trying to keep it stuff down, but it's affecting, I'm sure, every aspect of their life. And what needs to happen is a culture shift so that the women feel comfortable speaking up and that the men actually get some control in themselves as well. It's not just the women.

Fatima Bey: 21:46

Yeah, no, exactly. I want to add something for the young women specifically. I'm talking to young women right now, for the young women that are out there that you don't have anybody you can talk to. You don't have that support system. You don't have you. You are afraid to talk about what you know. Like Erica just said, you're afraid to talk about what's happened to you and you have nobody to talk to. If you can get a call to America and talk to Erica, you should, because one thing I can tell you about both of us we are not interested in trying to Americanize you. You could be Muslim, we understand that. You could be from Bulgaria, we don't care.

Erica Bess: 22:31

Right.

Fatima Bey: 22:32

There are people who actually do care and want you to know that you know everything isn't your fault and you shouldn't shut up for what happened to you. You should deal with it. You don't have to deal with it way out publicly and openly and act all crazy. We're not saying that you do. Just because we're American doesn't mean that we think that we want you to know that there are other women out here who care and we want you to be whole and you can be. You might have to do it differently in your culture and country than we do here in America, right, but there is hope.

Fatima Bey: 23:19

I've met women from different parts of the world who actually do care, so reach out, even if it's just to me. You can't call Erica because you don't have. You can't reach out to American phone numbers. I do have a WhatsApp on my website and most people in the world can get on WhatsApp. You can reach out to me that way and I can forward you to somebody somewhere. But we want you to know for young women. Please reach out and just know that there are people who care and there are people that want to support you. I don't care what language you speak and I don't care what country you're in. I don't care what culture you come from. That's all just stuff to me. You're a woman.

Erica Bess: 24:03

You're a woman. You need support. You're a young woman. You're a girl.

Fatima Bey: 24:09

That's what we care about and we need to support each other and for everybody else out there listening, please make it a point to try to understand our youth, instead of telling them just what to do and yelling at them Because you are making their trauma worse. It's almost like you're reabusing them. Absolutely, I want you to think about that, all right, well, erica, thank you so much for coming on, um. You've already told people how they can find you, um, and your, your. I will put your uh link into the show notes or the podcast description, and this has been a really good conversation and we will talk about this again, because there's a whole lot that we didn't talk about, because 16, nobody's going to list to a 16 hour podcast. Absolutely, thank you for having me.

Fatima Bey: 25:06

We only touched on the surface today, but we really hope that this touches someone and changes a life. Thank you, and now for a mind shifting moment, I want to put plant a thought seed in your head today. Sometimes we look at people and we're like why is she acting crazy, why is he doing that? And we don't really think about what caused them to arrive at the behavior that we're judging. Sometimes what we're looking at is a trauma response within a cultural mindset. I want you to really sit down and think about what that means and what that looks like, because you have seen it. But now I want you to start to recognize that. Thank you for listening. Be sure to follow or subscribe to MindShift Power podcast on any of our worldwide platforms so you, too, can be a part of the conversation that's changing young lives everywhere. And always remember there's power in shifting your thinking.