Your Phone Can't Hold You When You Cry (Episode 146)

A chatbot that always agrees with you can feel like peace, but it can also be a trap. We sit down with Tara Hodgson, an author, teacher, and mom, to talk about how AI companions and “make a friend” apps are changing teen mental health, adult loneliness, and the basic skills we need to function in the real world.

We dig into why teens gravitate toward AI that never argues, never judges, and never demands repair after conflict, and how that convenience can stunt emotional regulation, social skills, and resilience. Tara shares what she’s seeing firsthand in schools, from AI use in student work to the deeper risk of replacing messy human relationships with frictionless digital validation. We also challenge the idea that AI is the answer to the loneliness epidemic and explain why the illusion of connection can intensify isolation when the phone is gone.

Then we turn to adults: the void after divorce, the fear of vulnerability after betrayal, and the appeal of a “relationship” that cannot reject you. We talk about the business incentives behind chatbot addiction, why empathy cannot be coded, and the serious safety concerns when AI responds to depression or self-harm. You’ll walk away with clear boundaries for healthy AI use, plus practical ways to build at least one real, safe human connection.

If this conversation hit home, subscribe, share it with someone you care about, and leave a review. Where do you draw the line between using AI as a tool and letting it replace your relationships?

Connect with Tara:

http://www.tarahodgson.ca/

Transcript

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Welcome And Why AI Matters

Fatima Bey 0:04

This is MindShift Power Podcast, the number one critically acclaimed podcast where we have raw, unfiltered conversations that shape tomorrow. I'm your host, Fatima Bay, the Mind Shifter. And welcome everyone. Today we have with us Tara Hodgson. She is out of Canada. She's an author, a teacher, and you've heard her before. Because AI is now and the future, we'll be talking about it from different perspectives. Tara has firsthand knowledge of what is happening with our teens because she sees it every day. We are going to have a conversation about how both teens and adults are substituting AI for real connections, but for different reasons. So, Tara, welcome back. How are you? I am great, thank you. How are you? Great. And as you know, I'd like to dive right in.

AI Attachments And Emotional Voids

Fatima Bey 1:01

So I mentioned that adults and teens alike are substituting AI for real connections, but in different ways. We keep all hearing about this problem. And unfortunately, and we keep seeing it over and over again that people are forming emotional attachments to AI. But I don't really think people are quite grasping how serious this really is. The thing is, with between adults and teens, we're kind of seeing the same patterns. And they look a little bit differently. Well, for different reasons, but we're seeing the same patterns between adults and teens when it comes to connections with AI, imbalanced, unhealthy connections, I would say. But the truth is both of them are actually filling different emotional voids. The same danger is it's the same danger for both of them. When we are replacing human connection, that's really freaking dangerous. And Tara and I are gonna today are gonna talk about why and how that is and why this matters. Because AI is, again, like I said, it's not just today. It is the future. It is what we're all gonna have to deal with it, whether we like it or not. So, Tara, when it comes to teens, what what do you have to say on the subject?

Tara Hodgson 2:25

I think there's just so it's happened so quickly, first of all. Like it feels like the conversation just started and now it's escalated in just like months, even this, you know, all the you know how AI is surrounding us completely and entirely right now. Um, for teens, I think I'm seeing so many, like a multitude of things. Obviously, as a teacher, you're seeing like, you know, they're they're using AI to do their work, to they're not having their own original thoughts. Um, but what's more scary to me is like you said, replacing that human connection. So I know there's tons of different apps now where kids can make a friend. Um, and this friend will cater to, you know, whatever they like. We'll talk to them about whatever they want to talk to them about. We'll, you know, kind of create a safe space for them where they don't have to have any conflict or, you know, make decisions because the AI chatbot or whoever it is will go along with whatever they want to talk about with whatever they are believing in, you know, kind of feeding their opinions. And it's easier then to keep that connection than it is to maintain real connections in the real world with human beings who are much more complex. And, you know, you're going to have conflict um and friction. Um, so I'm seeing that more, which is alarming because we all know human connection is such a you know key

Learning Conflict Before Real Life

Tara Hodgson 3:52

aspect of our mental health.

Fatima Bey 3:53

And is it really though? Do we really need humans? Yes, we do. We need humans because I can but I uh my friend tells me everything I want to know on my phone in my app. So why do I need any friends?

Tara Hodgson 4:05

Because friends teach you to grow, they expose you to different worldviews, different, you know, they get you out of your house into the real world. And some of those key factors of mental health are like you know, being outside, movement, um, having face-to-face interaction with other people, touch, like human touch. They say you need like a certain amount of human touch just to like maintain, you know, a good level of health. Um, so when you start to make connections with these, you know, people, I don't know what to call them. You can't see my my finger quotations in the air, um, you are missing out on all of that and you isolate yourself more and more and more from family, from friends, you know, just from peers, not even, you know, friends, but being in the world with other people.

Fatima Bey 4:58

I think what you said uh a few statements ago is actually really key. One of the reasons why I think that so many people are ending up befriending, at least with teens, ending up befriending uh some any kind of a digital character. You know, whether it's Chat GPT, that's the most common one, but there's a lot of other different forms of AIs, and like you said, in apps. I think one of the reasons that that is easier to gravitate to is like you said, an app is not gonna argue with you. An app is gonna agree with whatever the hell you say. Everything you say is right and great and wonderful, but the problem with that is the real world doesn't work like that. No, and when you grow up, and even if even before you fully grow up, let's just say you're 17 and you go get a job, how are you gonna function with the people that you need to function with if you can't deal with humans? And the thing is, is humans are messy, we get attitudes, we say stupid things, we say great things, we're good, we're bad, we're all of that mixed in one bag. And sometimes it's easier not to deal with that. But the truth is, go ahead.

Tara Hodgson 6:09

No, I just think as a as a kid, one of the pivotal things you need to learn is how do you deal with different kinds of people? Because at some point you have to encounter people, you have to go and get a job, like you said. And your boss isn't always gonna say what you want to hear, they're not always gonna be making you do what you want to do. You're going to have coworkers who you butt heads with. Um, you're not gonna like every person you come across. So, how do you navigate those situations? Right. And if you're never put into situations where you have to practice that and learn that, I think like you're going to struggle now out in the real world having that job, you know, being out there in the grocery store, even, you know, doing your day-to-day tasks. How? How are you going to navigate those difficult situations if you've never had to do that? And this isn't just an AI thing. I think this is a tech thing in general because I see kids all the time, you know, you're they're in like a situation where they're bored or they're frustrated and they have an iPad shoved in their face, and now they fear they're placated, right? They don't have to deal with those uncomfortable feelings.

Digital Comfort And Stunted Growth

Fatima Bey 7:14

And we need to deal with uncomfortable feelings because it's like for the teenagers listening right now. I'm gonna talk to you for a second. I want you to imagine this. Imagine you're two years old and you're in diapers, right? That's around about the time that you potty train, you know, depending on the child, but usually between two and three. And you're you're potty training. Wonderful. You get out of the diaper, you start to grow up, you develop, you go to school, you're not in diapers anymore. So you don't, so you you're just like all the rest of the kids, you're normal. But let's say your parent never makes you go potty, never stops putting diapers on you. You go to school, you're still in diapers. How's that gonna work out for you? We all know the answer to that. Your school won't be too doing too well, and you you'll want to be comfortable in your diapers for the rest of your life. That's what it's like connecting to replacing humans with something digital. We're using the word AI, but uh like Tara said, this is not just about AI, it's anything digital. You're you're going in an app, and sometimes for some people, and actually, especially people with certain disabilities, those apps can be great, but they should be a gateway, not a landing spot, not a destination. And and that's the thing, is if you if you don't know how to deal with humans, if you don't try to work on your interhuman development, how to deal with people, you are you're not, you can't get any, you can't get anywhere in life because you have to deal with people. No matter how far in technology we get, we will always have to deal with humans. So you have to be able to develop yourself. We're not telling you to put the phone down, we're not telling you never pick up anything digital. We're saying you have to learn, do the difficult thing of developing relationships with people. What else can they do, Tara?

Loneliness Epidemic And AI Friends

Tara Hodgson 9:18

Um, I think, well, I just education is always going to be key because we're not avoiding this. It's everywhere. You can't even put anything into Google now without AI being the first option that comes up, right? It's everywhere. Workplaces are are learning to, you know, use AI and incorporate it. It's everywhere. Um, but education is huge. And I think, you know, there are places where AI is very helpful. And I'm not touting all the bad things, um, but using it as a replacement for a friend, I think is a really scary, scary direction that it's going. And I know a lot of these tech companies are, you know, touting this as like the answer to the loneliness epidemic, right? Yes. Because there is an epidemic of loneliness going on. So this is the answer. Make a friend. You know, you you have this friend readily accessible on your device at all times, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But this is actually fueling the loneliness epidemic because there might be this illusion of not feeling lonely at the time. But as soon as you're not going to have access to that device, that loneliness is still going to be there. And you're not getting that real healthy, true connection. Um, you know, a hug when you need it. You know, you're if you're crying and somebody to wipe away your tears, you know, somebody to really like be there for you and see you in spite of, you know, disagreements, because that's what relationships are. Like I've, my best friend, I've we've been friends since we were 15. She's been in my life longer than she's been not in my life. And she has seen me at my absolute worst. We have disagreed, we have argued, we have fought, we have struggled along the way, and she is still here. So having all those conflicts and still having someone there, that is so much more powerful than having somebody, you know, this illusion of someone agreeing with you and, you know, placating you along the way, and you're never gonna actually get to be the full range of a human being that you are.

Fatima Bey 11:23

Not only that, no, you're absolutely right. But you just brought up a point that I was gonna bring up next that it's not just okay, we need you need human development. We said that already. But I don't think that many people recognize well, many of our youth recognize what's happening to them right now in terms of when you are used to being connected to a digital character, and that becomes more meaningful to you than an actual human connection. A real human is not gonna agree with you all the time. So what that also means is that's why you have people out crashing out on TikTok, crashing, just really crashing out over absolutely minor nothing things. Because they can't handle life, they can't handle basic things. And when you don't have that human connection, you are guaranteed to be one of those crash outs who doesn't go very far. I personally, I know that I can speak for both Tara and I. Neither one of us wants that for you. Neither one of us want that for you. We care about your generation, we want to see you successful. That's how we want to have this conversation. It might not be comfortable, it might not sound all pretty, but who cares as long as you get some truth. And hopefully you can see yourself

Why Adults Bond With AI

Fatima Bey 12:46

in some of it. Now, I also want to talk about with adults. Now, there are several reasons why with youth, um, why with youth they they gravitate towards the, you know, we we focus on the non-argument part, but also uh it causes identity confusion, um, increases social pressure, uh, and like you said, it makes people feel more isolated. You know, those are some of the things. But I want to talk about the adult side. Now, uh there are adults who did not grow up with AI that are now getting into the same basket as the teens we just talked about. They are now developing these relationships with some sort of AI, some sort of digital character, and literally becoming emotionally involved. It's scary. But with adults, I think the reason is a little bit different. It's it's the aloneness. So loneliness, we talked about with the youth. The aloneness, the void is the to me, is the main cause with adults. Adults who have already lived some life, they now have this void that they don't know how to fill. So they're filling it with AI. And that is dangerous because you become mentally unstable and imbalanced when you do that. Because now you're way off in a mental extreme that I think is harder for an adult to come back from than a teenager. What do you think, Tara?

Tara Hodgson 14:19

Yeah, I think for both sides, because it is like that loneliness is huge. Um, these I think it's important to recognize that these companies, these tech companies who are creating these apps, they know exactly what they're doing and they know how to target vulnerability and to keep fueling that and keep people coming back and back and back to try and fill this void, like you said, um, but it's not going to be filled. So they continue and continue and continue. It's very manipulative. Um, and I think it's important for everyone to recognize that they're being played essentially, like they they are being targeted specifically on their vulnerabilities, and these companies are profiting off of these people, and they're fueling this epidemic of loneliness and making it worse. And then, like you said, when you do, you know, encounter someone with a different opinion than you, which has always happened, but now we're seeing this more and more where people cannot handle that, and it's making the world more divisive, it's making it, you know, you just see people are struggling emotionally, and they can't regulate those emotions because they've never learned, and it's scary and it's sad because people are missing out on so much more experiences because they are being targeted by these billionaire companies who know exactly

Water In The Gas Tank

Tara Hodgson 15:52

what they're doing.

Fatima Bey 15:52

Yeah. You know, I just thought of another analogy as you were saying that. Um, analogies always come to me and come, they always come to me. So um, for the adults listening, picture a gas, a gas car, right? We're if we're over 30, we're all we're more familiar with gas cars than anything else. So picture a gas car. And let's say I'm selling water. Your car needs gas, but it's empty. So you buy the water because it's there. So you fill your gas tank with water. What's gonna happen? Nothing good. And this is what these companies are doing. They're selling you something to fill the void, something to fill what's empty. But what's what they're putting there is not good for your actual needs. I think when it comes to adults, one of the biggest one of the biggest issues is actually divorce. There are a lot of divorced people who are lonely. And it's easy to it's easier to fill it in with something that's not gonna cause so much pain as a breakup or a divorce. It's easier to fill it with, go ahead.

Tara Hodgson 17:03

Yeah, just relationships are so hard.

Fatima Bey 17:06

Yeah.

Tara Hodgson 17:07

Right? When you are in a relationship with somebody else, you are navigating challenges daily, potentially, and you are disagreeing on things and trying to overcome that. So of course it's going to be easier now if that relationship fails to turn to something where you don't have to have those same struggles, right? And it gives you that illusion of you know, feeling filling that void again. And now, oh well, this is so much easier.

Fatima Bey 17:34

Right. I think another when it comes to adults, another thing I think this is true for adults and and not so true for teens. Um trying to avoid being vulnerable. As someone who's experienced a lot of life, who's experienced some backstabbing, some some real uh friendships turned sour um that you didn't expect because you gave it your all. And you and you really trusted people, and then they turned around and stabbed you in the back. And I think a lot of us have had that happen. I don't think it's just me. And that makes you not trust people. And when you don't trust people, it's easier to trust an AI if you want to have a conversation. You can literally sit there with Gemini, Chat GPT, Claude, Quinn, you name it, and have a conversation about whatever, anything. And I I will admit I do sometimes pick up and ask uh Gemini especially about something I'm just curious about. You know, I might be curious about a particular insect. You just simply ask it, oh, I learned something new. But we didn't fall in love in that conversation. I just learned something new. Yeah. But there are um, you know, there are, I think that sometimes that people are, they're afraid to be vulnerable, they're afraid to trust. And I'll admit, it is hard to trust people. I don't trust people that well. Anybody who knows me will tell you I I'm very, very uh guarded and I'm very open in certain respects and very guarded in others, uh because of what I've experienced. And so I but I know it's not just me. I know I'm absolutely not alone in that. And I think that sometimes because we don't trust people, it's easier to talk to a robot that can't hurt you, that can't turn its back on you, that can't lie about you, that can't stab you in the back, that can't tell you how stupid you are, or what a dumb idea something was, or whatever. And that isn't gonna bring up your past like a person would. Those are legitimate reasons why I can understand why somebody would want to gravitate away from people and towards an AI. But at the end of the day, it's still unhealthy. You're still putting water in your gas tank, and your car is not gonna work. You're going to be mentally unstable. Because we as human beings were built for other human beings. I know I just blew your mind with such a weird concept, but we are as human beings, we are actually built to work with and deal with and collaborate with other human beings. None of us were born on an island by ourselves. We didn't just appear out of the air. There's a reason for that. Um I I and I think a lot of the eyes, one of the other things I think as well is that sometimes people, and this is true for both teens and adults, sometimes people don't feel sane. They want to feel seen. And in a world that can ignore you unless you're screaming the loudest, I can kind of understand that. And if you talk to an AI, they see you. They hear every detail that you type in or say and talk into the device. And they can respond. You're getting some attention now. Someone is actually taking you seriously because you're having a one-on-one conversation with something that's paying attention. And I know this is also true with teens, but how how does Tara, how do you think that looks different? I know it it really isn't different in it in its in its core and its root, but how does that look different when it's a teen?

Teens Want To Feel Heard

Tara Hodgson 21:37

Well, I guess I think like a common, you know, struggle for teens is this feeling that you're not heard, right? We I remember that feeling. You know, you're trying to tell your parents something, trying to get them to really hear you, and they don't. And it's so frustrating. Um, and now, okay, well, they're not gonna listen to me. I'll go to my friends, my chatbot friend, who, you know, has kind of catered to whatever I want, they're gonna hear me. And now I feel heard, I feel justified. I feel all of these, you know, feelings that I've been wanting to feel from the adults in my life or other people in my life. Um, which is a really powerful thing because you know, I have a lot of people tell me I'm so crazy for teaching teenagers. Um, but all kids want is to be treated, you know, with respect and to be heard. Like that's really like I know teens out there, you just want to be heard, you want to be validated, you know, you're going through all of these things. Life is so hard when you're a teenager and you're trying to figure yourself out and you're navigating so many struggles and challenges. So it would be easy. And I think back to myself and you know how vulnerable I felt and you know, alone and misunderstood all of these feelings that I felt and I still remember feeling how easy it would have been to turn to something that would just hear me and accept me for who I was. I didn't have to feel insecure and you know, all of those very common feelings of kids. Um, so I definitely see how that could be alerting.

When Chatbots Turn Dangerous

Tara Hodgson 23:19

Um, you did say that how these AI chatbots are going to hurt you or harm you, but there are more and more cases c uh cropping up. I know there was one specifically in Canada a couple years ago where a young man had his chat spot friend who he had had for a while, and he was talking about how depressed he was and sad and you know how it was so hard. And the AI chatbot encouraged him to commit suicide, and he did. So while yes, I know you're not navigating the same challenges and maybe not betrayed in the same way, but they can harm you. They, I say they again with you know my air quotations because it's not real. Um there is no, they don't recognize you as a human. And so, yeah, this kid was encouraged to commit suicide, talked to this chat spot about how he was going to do it, and he did, and he followed through, and his parents didn't know about any of this until after he had already passed, but they it doesn't have your best interest at heart.

Empathy And Healthy AI Use

Fatima Bey 24:26

I think you just said something really, really key that needs to be like really pointed out. You just said they don't recognize you as a human. That is absolutely true. These are how could they? They're not human, right? You you're not human, you're information. They don't have emotions, they mimic them because they were fed information of what emotions look like. When I'm talking now, I I use AI literally all day, every day. I literally use AI all day long, every day, just about. And but for me, uh because I run a multifaceted business with many different branches between media and coaching. So I use AI to develop things, to I use AI to have conversations about um, to have conversations about my business ideas and just to bounce back off. I'm like, oh, and sometimes to fact check things. Oh, here's my idea. Where do you think I'm missing XYZ? And then I was like, oh, okay. And sometimes I don't go with their suggestions, but um, but it's to that's a healthy way to use AI. I'm not talking about my love life with it. Uh, I might ask it about a recipe, but but that's not business related. Yeah. But um, you know, but I'm not um having the the conversations that we're talking about, like where it's replacing. But because I use AI every day and it has literally made me cry before, because it brought up an emotion that was already there in me, didn't create an emotion, it touched an emotion that was already there for me and recognizing certain things about myself and my own potential. And it was a it was a good thing. But even in these conversations, I started all that to say, even in these conversations with that I've asked AI about certain things, it literally will say right back to me, well, I don't exactly XYZ because I don't have emotions. I'm a program. Yeah, it'll say stuff like that. And I and I just laugh because that's that's not what I was looking for. But I was like, well, at least it says that. But the problem is that some of them, especially I as far as I know, the worst of these is ChatGPT. I actually stopped using Chat GPT for the most part. I do use it for some things, but I I switched over to a different one because I was using it for a little while, because it kept giving, it kept overdoing the platitudes. I don't want the extra bullshit. Tell me the facts. If I'm crazy and wrong, just tell me so. I don't want the extra platitudes and all the extra fakeness. And Chad GBT goes overboard with that. So it made me stay away. But um, but I want for the audience listening right now, and you're quietly knowing that we're talking about you, please don't take this conversation as uh a point of judgment. We're I could talk about lots of other things on this podcast, and I do, but we're having this conversation because both Tara and I both actually care about your mental health and you being the best you can be. And this is for teens. So obviously we started off we're, you know, talking about teens, but this is an issue that is affecting some of the parents and some of the coaches and some of the counselors and school administrators who are quietly, you know, putting a smile on and being professional, but really having this issue in the background. And I I'm I'm saying that you are just information to the to it. If you really want to have meaning to someone, then you've got to connect with a person.

Tara Hodgson 28:14

I think the key emotion that's missing is empathy. Like a computer program cannot feel empathy because they have not gone through human experiences. Humans are the only other creatures in your world that can experience empathy for you. Because you know, if you've lost your grandma, for example, how many other people have lost their grandmas and can empathize with that situation? A program can't do that. Breakups. We've all experienced breakups, and when you're a teenager, holy mad, that is horrible pain to be rejected like that. That first breakup, that feeling is so intense and it's your whole world entirely. A computer program cannot empathize with that. They can't, you know, they never never experience those human experiences that we are all going to go through that are universal amongst humans. So they cannot be there for you in the way that other humans can be there for you because they cannot have empathy. So that mental health piece, you know, if you are depressed and you are struggling and you are having those scary, scary thoughts of harming yourself, a computer program cannot understand that. But how many people have gone through that and can sit with you and can help you along that journey? Will it be easy? No, that's so hard because, like you said, you have to be vulnerable and emotional, but there are other people who have experienced that and can be empathetic towards you.

Fatima Bey 29:41

Also, if if you're sitting in front of me and you're confiding in me, I'm gonna give you a hug. I'm gonna give you real love. AI gives you fake love because it can't give you real love. It literally it can't. You know, it doesn't have desires, it has instructions. It doesn't have empathy or love, it has information. They're not the same thing. They can feel like the same thing when you're lonely, when it's filling a void, when you don't want conflict because it it's just too hard. So you talk to something that doesn't give you conflict. But meanwhile, it leaves you underdeveloped and unable to handle the real world. And how does that help you in the end of the day? It doesn't, it actually does more harm than good.

The Case For One Real Person

Fatima Bey 30:34

So, Tara, what do you think is I think we kind of already said it, but I think the the solution, there's there's m more than one piece to the solution to this. But I think the biggest solution to this problem, no matter what their what their age is, is to find at least one person who feels safe enough and build a real relationship with them. That doesn't mean that they're gonna be perfect, doesn't mean it's all gonna be touchy feelies and wonderful like the movies. The movies have lied to y'all so much you believe all the crap they've sold you. Real relationships are not all fun, are are not a lifetime movie. Real relationships where everybody ends and yay, hugs y'all. It's you know, every 80s movie ended like that too. But it's, you know, real relationships are difficult, they can be struggling, they're work. Whether you're talking about romantic relationships, friendships, or family. They're all relationships. They all involve other humans, they're all work. That doesn't mean it's not worth it, though, because those are the ones that are worth keeping. Those are the ones who will be with you. AI isn't gonna go out to the club and dance with you. AI isn't gonna save you when someone's trying to put something in your drink. Your friend will.

Tara Hodgson 31:47

Or the memories with you, right?

Fatima Bey 31:49

Laugh, so you're not gonna memories laugh, absolutely, but not the same way your friend will.

Tara Hodgson 31:59

Um, for me, I think the solution lies primarily with the adults in teens' lives. Because yeah, finding that connection is important, but if you've you know never been shown or given those connections, that's very hard, right? As a kid, if you've never had those connections in your life. So I'm a teacher, I'm a mom. Um, my number one priority, which you know, whether they're my own kids or they're my student kids, is to be there for them and to, you know, offer a safe, non-judgmental space and to show them that those human connections are important. Um, if you know, if you don't have an adult in your life who's guiding that and modeling that, that's that's much more challenging, you know, having to learn to seek that out on your own. So I think as adults, we need to recognize that this is out there and we need to be the safe space for kids. So they're not turning to their phones and to some app, some chat bot that's been fed in information by some billionaire tech company. We need to be there for kids. Um, and I think that I put that responsibility on myself as an adult for sure.

Fatima Bey 33:12

I love what you're saying about that. I think it because what you're saying goes way beyond the the AI conversation, honestly. We how we raise our children or don't raise them, whichever the situation is, a lot of times those create the void that they try to fill in the first place. Or they at least make the void bigger and make it more vulnerable. You know, you can't necessarily make all your choices for your child. They're still gonna make their own choices no matter what you do. But we we can create environments and you know, relationship dynamics that allow them to, like you said, Tara, to have a place where they can actually talk and they're not just gonna be yelled at or told how stupid they are or go away because they're annoying. There's there's kids out there who hear that all the time.

Tara Hodgson 34:05

A hundred percent.

Fatima Bey 34:06

And that uh if you do that, you you're bad. You are bad for them. I'm just gonna say it, you're bad for them. Because now they that if their child is not talking to you, if they don't find a safe place at home, and there's a lot of kids who live that. So I don't like to give advice that, oh, talk to your parents. Well, half the kids listening don't have parents that they can talk to. So what then? You know, and uh but for the parents who are listening, or caretakers, because it could be grandma, uncle, whoever. If if the child can't talk to you, I don't mean that you're perfect, I don't mean they come to you with every tiny little thing, but I mean if something major is happening and they can't come to you, that's a really huge, gigantic, not a small, gigantic problem. Because if they're not coming to you, guess who they're going to? I said this before. They're going to the hoes and the pimps down the street who ain't mean them no good.

Tara Hodgson 35:00

And now those hoes and pimps are just on their phones. For real. For real. That's so much easier now. It's actually easier now for kids to fall into these dangerous spaces because the dangerous spaces exist on their phones in their bedrooms.

Phone Based Risk In The Bedroom

Fatima Bey 35:16

So they don't see them as dangerous, though. They just, you know, the parents are overreacting or just being they're being too much. Y'all, y'all too much. That's what teams say all the time. Y'all do it too much. And and uh, but the truth, but the truth is we're not doing too much, it's because we actually care. We see the bigger picture and understand what's going on. And it happened when we were younger too, but now it happens digitally, and like you said, in the bedroom where you can't cut them off. So, you know, when I when when uh somebody in their 30s was younger, you used to have to go to the living room to get on AOL to get on the internet to talk to somebody or and everybody can see what's on your screen. Right. But now you could just be under your covers and talking to some 40-year-old man on Snapchat who's pretending he's your age and a girl, um, so he can get your information and come steal you. That happens. But 100%. Um, but you know, I I really think I I'm hoping that listeners that you've heard this conversation and we've at least planted a seed in your mind for you to go and make a difference for yourself. That's why we're having this conversation. Because Tara and I are not uh bored. We have we're both very busy people. But we're having this conversation because we actually care and we want to see you in a healthier spot because if we have a whole society that is this messed up, and I mean messed up, that is this messed up mentally, where are we headed? And this show is about youth and their future. And this is one of the most important conversations about youth future that I think I can even have is about AI. Because it's it's already taken everything over. And let me back that up a little bit. To a teen, AI isn't taking over because it's always been there. For us who are older, we see it as taking over because we've been around longer. But if I was 14, I wouldn't see why AI is a big deal because it's been around my whole life. But I'm telling you, as someone who is older and has seen the bigger picture, what it was like before you're around, where we're headed, it is a big deal. And I am, I don't want to see AI make this generation a group of dummies because you can't think for yourself because you let AI do it all the thinking for you. That makes you the perfect victim, that makes you the perfect tool, that makes you the perfect person that the sheep puppet, you name it, give it a word. And I don't want to see that for you. Tara, do you have any last uh comments? Because I'll go on for about another three hours.

Tara Hodgson 37:57

Yeah, I think just reiterating, kind of bouncing off what you just said about like not being a puppet, and sure, you're gonna access these tools and they're around, it's you can't avoid it anymore, but don't let yourself be manipulated by these companies. Right? Like they don't care about you. They do that, they have zero concern for you, they care about you using their tools so they can make more money. That's it. Um, and I think that's really important to remember if you are, you know, using these apps to create connections and relationships, they whoever it is you're talking to, whatever it is, does not care about you. It's been created by a company that has hundreds of people who have researched exactly how to target you and manipulate you and to make you addicted to this platform so they can make more money. So I know as a teen, I didn't want anybody telling me what to do. Right? We've nobody wants that when you're a team. But basically, what these tools are doing is you are letting these companies like make you a puppet. You are letting them manipulate you, you're letting them tell you what to do, whether it feels like that or not. You need to take the stand and be stronger than falling for that, you know, for that trick. Because that's all they're doing is they're just tricking you.

Fatima Bey 39:16

They really are. Well, Tara, thank you for for coming on. I do wish we could talk like another hour, another hour about this, because uh there's just so much on this topic. But you guys, uh listeners, you will hear more on this topic from different perspectives because um I think it's important. And we're talking about the the future of our youth, and this is one of the biggest ones in all the world. So once again, Tara, thank you so much for coming on again. Yeah, thank you so much for having me.

Relationship Audit And Closing

Fatima Bey 39:46

And now for a mind-shifting moment I want to take a moment to talk about an underlying fundamental issue in this entire conversation and that is your relationships with other humans. Do you have relationships with other humans? Is there a void there? Or are you fostering relationships with other humans? Are you putting in the work to even have that? I ask you this because without that, it makes you more vulnerable in several different ways, and not just with AI. It makes you more vulnerable to scams, it makes you more vulnerable to falling in love with or becoming too emotionally attached with something digital. It makes you more vulnerable to be tricked or conned into whatever. And parents that are listening got a really hard question for you. Are you leaving a void that makes your child, no matter what their age is, highly susceptible to an imbalanced, inappropriate, harmful relationship with another person? The wrong person with AI or something digital. Are you leaving a void big enough to be filled in by the wrong thing? Are you not having the emotional hard conversations with your child or children that you need to? Now that's a harsh question. I know. But it's a real one. And no matter what your age is, listening right now, I want to plant the seed in your mind right now that you need to foster relationships with other humans. Could just be one or two, but you need at least that. You've been listening to Mind Shift Power Podcast for complete show notes on this episode. And to join our global movement, find us at FatimaBey.com. Until next time, always remember there's power in shifting your thinking.