In this episode, we continue our Episode 14, "Always Getting Ready" conversation with members of the Friends of the UA Museum of the North. The friends are a group of engaged community members whose purpose is to build a bridge of understanding and knowledge about the museum's collections and research. We pick up the discussion with Ron Inouye, Dave Norton, and Tim Doran.
The More You Look is a production of the UA Museum of the North, on the campus of the University of Alaska Fairbanks and the ancestral lands of the Dena people of the lower Tanana River. UAMN illuminates the natural history and cultural heritage of Alaska and the North through collections, research, education, and partnerships, and by creating a singular museum experience that honors diverse knowledge and respect for the land and its peoples.
In this episode, we continue our Episode 14, "Always Getting Ready" conversation with members of the Friends of the UA Museum of the North. The friends are a group of engaged community members whose purpose is to build a bridge of understanding and knowledge about the museum's collections and research. We pick up the discussion with Ron Inouye, Dave Norton, and Tim Doran.
The More You Look is a production of the UA Museum of the North, on the campus of the University of Alaska Fairbanks and the ancestral lands of the Dena people of the lower Tanana River. UAMN illuminates the natural history and cultural heritage of Alaska and the North through collections, research, education, and partnerships, and by creating a singular museum experience that honors diverse knowledge and respect for the land and its peoples.
Hello, and welcome to The More You Look: Up Close, a short, unscheduled stop on your behind the scenes journey into museum collections, research, exhibits, and public programming. In this episode, we continue our Episode 14 conversation with members of the Friends of the UA Museum of the North, 'Always Getting Ready.' The Friends are a group of engaged community members whose purpose is to build a bridge of understanding and knowledge about the museum's collections and research. We pick up the discussion with Ron Inouye, Dave Norton, and Tim Doran.
Tim Doran:What does the museum need? I look at one -- is moving beyond survival. As you mentioned, the Museum of the North is part of the University of Alaska. It's an active educational entity that goes beyond just collecting and holding things. It's making them come alive. It's capturing life in Alaska, in the broad range and understanding of life, even for inanimate objects. But what we really need to get is that investment in public education, investment in the museum, so that the museum can be creative, innovative. There are a ton -- literally -- of items in storage. How do we get those out? How do we get items, indicators that really helped to educate and affirm our population? So, I think that is one of the biggest things that I think of is we've seen in a lot of public institutions, the State Museum in specific in a survival mode, how do we make things work with less resources? Whether that be funding and or staffing opportunities? How do we open that up? And so what we can do to contribute to the future? And then the the other piece is to be able to, again, that innovation, that creativity piece, with all the things in storage, how do we get them out? How do we get them -- and it is a thrill to walk into the gallery and see the fishbone dress, to see the variety of whale skulls that are up, you know, little things that are coming in, the staff trying to bring more to the public. As we can grow, we can invest in it, we can have greater opportunity, whether it is a planetarium, gallery refreshening, updating information based on new things we've learned, and understandings we've gained. So you know, whether it is doing an addition on so we can make more things available to the public. So I look at those two things. It's beyond survival. It's really being able to look forward. And that takes an investment.
Roger Topp:Yeah, we've gotten very good at putting a lot in a small space -- doesn't mean we couldn't use more space.
Tim Doran:Yes, exactly. But, but also that you know, how things move along? How do you you know, exchange special exhibits, trade out some areas so that they are current, they're providing more information than this little gallery that highlights some of the departments, you know, that's there but it's being able to think more broadly, in how we even use the space we have, in addition to adding.
Dave Norton:I always think of the museum is is a public demonstration of answering the question Did you know? Did you realize? -- the great shedding of light on some treasure or understanding.
Tim Doran:I think that, you know, in terms of thinking about the needs of the Friends -- and it's an ongoing conversation, when we get together. As Ron said, it's that, you know, how we how do we serve the museum?So, part of our needs are, I think, is knowing what the museum needs. And that there's an avenue to say, and whether it's a seed money or a seed project that we can support that will grow into something else. And I think there's that ongoing piece, we've had discussions with this membership. Yeah. And people willing to serve on our board. We need to look at how do we build cross-generationally. And so that we can stay current with things and responsive to situations at the museum and needs in the museum and needs of our community? How do we -- we can be that bridge? How do we how do we do that? When those students come in on a school tour? At 8-9-10-11-12? What about when they come back as university students, and they're coming here, but then they later they're working in our community? They're raising their families in our community, how did we continue those connections? We need that voice at the table, if I'm not speaking out of turn. -- Since it's editing.
Roger Topp:I like the good parts. Those are the parts I want to keep.
Ron Inouye:I'm really glad that this building is as architecturally distinctive visit is. I can think of only other -- probably two other buildings in the state that are very prominent, and one is that APU campus, you know, that was done by Stone, who was very, very well known. It's totally dysfunctional as a campus, but it's very distinctive as a building with those multiple structures around it. This one, I think, people identify with Fairbanks now. And when they first put it in, people were grumbling, you know, how we're gonna -- gonna have all kinds of problems with it. But it's the first thing they see when they start landing.
Roger Topp:It's in a good position. You see it when they come in by road or air.
Ron Inouye:Right, right, and all the problems with having it-- and in the eyes, you know, originally, so when the planes were landing, it could blind the pilots and all that testing that they had to do.
Roger Topp:I missed those discussions.
Ron Inouye:Oh, it's amazing. Really? Yeah. But I think it's turned out to be a very, very good building. And it's what people think about now, when they think about Fairbanks.
Roger Topp:Working here before the building was renovated in early 2000s, you know, our biggest concern as the staff -- and the building was always like, 'Well, if you do this fancy design of the building, you don't get as much box space space, right? So we notably have a special exhibits galley, which is basically a triangle, a little larger than a triangle now we've expanded recently, but it's a triangle, and poses all sorts of obstacles when putting exhibits in there. And that's one way of thinking about it. And the other way of thinking about it, which I try to remind my crew whenever I can, is that, yes, but it's those obstacles that generate unique solutions and get you thinking creatively, It's why I sing about, you know, we get really good at using small amounts of space and time. And that's an important skill, to be efficient. And to be thinking in those ways. If you just get a monstrous, you know, 20,000 square-foot rectangle. You might be mounting paintings the way they do and every other museum that has large rectangular galleries. But because our gallery has been made it unique, it makes you think about it in different ways. Should think about where you are and how this gallery can reflect that. So, I think it's very beneficial to make that leap to be architecturally creative and than internally, institutionally get creative in the same way.
Dave Norton:You could answer a question for me, Roger.
Roger Topp:Oh, no.
Dave Norton:I gave credit sort of round around the back way, because I never did stop and verify it, particularly with anybody. But I gave credit to the museum for using the penalties of the COVID period creatively with the whale exhibit, the whale skeleton exhibit because I thought it was a coup. To say, to set aside the space, dedicated the auditorium to make that into an assembly room for the skeleton. Was that--
Roger Topp:Yeah, it's less coup and more silver lining. Obviously, that project was well underway in early 2020. We knew what we needed to do. As Aaron will tell you, he needed to macerate all those large bones. And he ended up having no one to help him because he could only do it by himself come March of But it takes a lot of positive energy for everyone to keep 2020. And so, not that great. But by the time we get late 2020, early 2021, we're still have our auditorium closed, we can't do shows. So, oh, well, that's definitely going to be the space we build the whale. And that's very positive. That's the coup you're talking about, right? We have this wonderful space. And for me, from a point of someone who's documenting that process, I can have all my camera gear in there, set it up every day. It's also in the building. So I'm not traveling to go, like the bus was -- going off site. And I'm right there, make sure it's working, go back to work in the office, come back, and don't have to be there all the time. So wonderfully advantageous. At the same time, as soon as we do that we, we kind of go -- every day, because the public can't see it -- And wouldn't have been nice, we would have, we would have solved it one way or the other, we would have been able to build the whale one way or the other somewhere. And maybe then it could have been the process could be more visible by the public, which meant the documentary was very important, to show that afterward. But that's why I say silver lining like yeah, the great thing is we could use the auditorium for something. but there were other ways to solve it. And we would have maybe been a little more public because that's what what was exciting. And every time we were able to bring small groups of people in, the stakeholders, people from the Slope, especially to see the whale in progress, after they had already worked with us for over a year on the project was fantastic. And was so much fun to show them the project. And we wish we could have done that with everyone. You know, who's coming through the building. And we had plans for that. Even though the space was the amount of space we would have had would have been very cramped in that. But yeah, it's good. Those little complications, big problems such as COVID, sometimes you find unique solutions to them, which are advantageous in the end. grinding through everything that needs to be done, my goodness.
Tim Doran:But that's why -- the importance of that investment, not just of funding, it's an investment. So that when those opportunities come, you can take advantage of them. And if you're just keeping body and soul together, it's hard to reach out and take, take advantage of those other things.
Roger Topp:Yeah, there's a lot of foresight involved in all institutions, what you need now but also what do we sort of have to work out so that we have these opportunities a year from now, two years from now, to get funding for aplanetarium? To get funding for a new gallery? Are we ready to take advantage of that, what that gives us? That's very important. And so that the Friends as as a as a partnering institution to the museum gives us some of the opportunities because a whole group of people who aren't on staff are putting their brains, their minds to the same problems and finding unique solutions that sometimes other people don't have time, directors have time to think about, because he's worried about the day to day so often. Yeah.
Dave Norton:Or do you know offhand, is the planned new exhibit of the what do you call it the Alaska room or the interior
Roger Topp:Gallery of Alaska? Large gallery? Yep.
Dave Norton:Will Blue Babe continue to be a featured exhibit.
Roger Topp:All -- every design plan that we've worked on, he is made more of a feature. Blue Babe will be a feature in all our designs.
Dave Norton:But the reason I ask is -- I've been going over a lot of the original literature and I am continually impressed. Wow. Blue Babe was so important in changing minds of people who had a long way to go at the beginning of studies of the Ice Age is understanding what what role this part of the world
Roger Topp:I think that's a really good point about objects played. in museums like Blue Babe. Is that blue Babe's important, is a great object. What will change with a new exhibit is the story that gets told about Blue Babe, the complexity of the stories we can tell now, the information we know since Blue Babe went in, making different decisions about the interpretation -- and that goes for all the objects. I mean Otto at the entrance of the gallery, you know. In all our designs, we don't have Otto at the entrance anymore. Does it mean Otto is not present. Doesn't mean there's no story to tell, but the story changes. I think that's really beneficial that we tell those new stories in the exhibits. But we also keep the old stories available, maybe history of different stories. And we've talked to this about a lot with the bus, with Bus 142. And the idea that there's decades upon decades of stories associated with an object. And yes, sure, it's famous because of a single story. But when you look at it, as a lot of stories there, and what you do is give this object chance to breathe and continue to live. And you continue to tell the stories, and we learn those stories because the object is accessible. So no fear about Blue Babe.
Dave Norton:Good point. And by gone, I mean it's not on exhibit at the museum. Still
Roger Topp:You might be asking about other objects out there. And I'll say No! That one's gone. research being done. Thank you all for for taking your time to be with us today. Appreciate it.
Ron Inouye:Appreciate you and all the work you do. Having just be on the front line thinking about those exhibits? Boy, that's a lot of --
Roger Topp:Ah, it's fun. A lot of work.
Tim Doran:It's fun to watch you over the years develop into the different areas.
Roger Topp:Yeah.
Tim Doran:different aspects when we first started working together.
Roger Topp:Maybe next I'll -- what should I do next, change -- I spent about 9, 10 years in education. And it's been about that long and exhibit, so maybe I need to tackle something else.
Ron Inouye:What would that be pray tell?
Roger Topp:Oh, managing the Friends. It's a fantastic organization. It's a pleasure to be involved. And I'm having a pleasure talking to people of all dimensions in the museum about what they do, and learning more about what the Museum does, just through this podcast.
Tim Doran:I think that's, you know, just the general piece of attracting and retaining people and having an institution that you're not treading water on. And I think that's one of the excitement s about this museum, because you always have an influx of new information, new findings. That are that's feeding into it. And being positioned then to take advantage of this.
Roger Topp:This is where I get in trouble. So email today from a researcher on campus saying, I just got this thing blah, blah, blah, would the museum be interested in exhibiting? Yes. But let me talk to people before I jut go--. Yes, of course we are. We want to do all this. It's just a matter of figuring out how.
Dave Norton:The only encyclopedic museum in the state and --
Roger Topp:I avoid that word, but I'm gonna take it as a compliment.
Dave Norton:I don't know that there's a lack of appetite for anything.
Roger Topp:No, we always, we always talk about exhibits is not being encyclopedias, not being websites, right? They are three dimensional immersive spaces. You have to move through them. The interpretation is nonlinear by nature. People are attracted to ideas and they bounce around. That's a very unique reading experience. And so, it also involves a lot of chance, a lot of luck --
Ron Inouye:Right.
Roger Topp:What people will see, what they will miss, what might help their / your understanding, it might hinder their understanding in that space. But it's a fascinating project every time you work on it.
Ron Inouye:That's why it's interesting to go through a museum with a group or with kids, because they come out with totally different ideas of what they saw. And Usually, after you talk, then you go back and look--
Roger Topp:Entirely different experience for anyone walking through space. And if you walk through space, as Tim has done, innumerable times for the docent program. I won't be as cliche as to say you'll learn something new every time but --
Tim Doran:just about.
Roger Topp:But you do.
Tim Doran:Yeah. And we were always talking after a thing. I didn't notice that was there or I didn't see it as well. You know, just doing the whaling docent program, and there wasn't a -- I could not find a whaling harpoon other than the big cannon one that was there for a while, but what they actually use today, and it was like, and I finally found one, and it's, it's there.
Roger Topp:It's there.
Tim Doran:And I'm not sure how long it's been there. I would say oh, they finally put it in the exhibit.
Roger Topp:Yes. Just for you, a couple decads ago. No, I mean, I'm not supposed to. I'm supposed to say that, same thing happens to me, right. I go oh, yeah, I never read that label. I have it's just been a long time. I've forgotten it.
Tim Doran:It takes a different resonance because, yeah, I don't know exactly how it fits here, but just for whatever it's worth. At the school board's conference, we also have the Youth Leadership Institute. And so we had about 100 youth meeting, at the same time and some meetings together, some conversations specifically together. But when you talk about museums are also 3D. One of the things that struck me is that students from different places in the state had a conversation with --they we're emphasizing the importance of those personal connections, those relationships, not being videoed, teachers not being videoed, not the remote lessons. It's being in school. And I think that's what happens here when they come and they can see things. And it's here, and there's actually, for a museum, a lot of touch opportunities, which is important. And for the students that they can think that oh, there are other students working in labs, who were taking, you know, really inside looks at the innards of animals, but really getting that hands-on. And I think that's what this is partially about.
Roger Topp:Yeah. Absolutely. Literally wander through space, you can wander through the space, --
Tim Doran:And they want that hands-on.
Dave Norton:Do you know anything about the fate of the Beychemo artifacts.
Roger Topp:Beychemo artifacts? But yeah, I mean?
Dave Norton:Have the Canadians-- I just thought, you know, this is a continuing
Roger Topp:No, I don't. That's a Josh [Reuther] question. That's that's an archaeological question. I don't know that. I know that Josh and I have had many conversations about that topic and objects on possible future exhibits. I don't know how that is influenced by, you know, negotiations of where the objects might --. mystery. What the heck ever happened to that ship after the artifacts came off? We need to find it? Yeah. Like the Erebus and the Terror. Franklin's ships.
Unknown:It's out there.
Dave Norton:They're out there. It's out there somewhere.
Roger Topp:North is a big place.
Ron Inouye:Well, people are looking. They'll find it. Yeah, they'll find it. Technology will help it to happen.
Dave Norton:And if I'm betting, it's going to be in the Alaska waters on the Alaskan shelf.
Ron Inouye:We can start a pool.
Tim Doran:Even though
Dave Norton:we have, back and forth so many times. It's a great mystery.
Roger Topp:The next big thing. Alright, thank you, everyone. Thank you to Ron Inouye, Dave Norton, and Tim Doran, and all the Friends of the UA Museum of the North. Keep spreading the word. The More You Look is a production of the UA Museum of the North on the campus of the University of Alaska Fairbanks and the ancestral lands of the Dena people the lower Tanana River. UAMN illuminates the natural history and cultural heritage of Alaska and the North through collections, research, education, and partnerships, and by creating a singular museum experience that honors diverse knowledge and respect for the land and its peoples. Thank you for listening. Please subscribe, share, and rate the program. This helps other listeners discover more about not only the work of this museum, but quite possibly other museums in their neighborhoods. The more you look, the more you find.