The MHW Mark Podcast
Welcome to the MHW podcast, bringing you conversations with experts and leaders in the alcoholic beverage industry. Covering topics ranging from selling alcohol online, creating a new brand from scratch, and what you need to know when you start doing business internationally. Hosted by Jimmy Moreland and a rotating cast of cohosts from the folks at MHW.
The MHW Mark Podcast
Talent Strategy for Brands - with Rachel Doueck
It's Thanksgiving week here in the US, and this week we're thankful to have Senior Director of Client Strategy at ForceBrands Rachel Doueck stop by the show to talk talent acquisition and retention.
Host Jimmy Moreland and special guest cohost Michelle Street Beaudette dive deep into what brands get right and wrong about attracting talent, how that puzzle piece fits in with a brand's overall strategy, and broader industry trends. Bonus low/no-alc chat at the end of the show - who else is getting an early start on dry January?
As mentioned in the show, here's the 2025 bev industry salary report.
More about ForceBrands: Website
More info about MHW at https://www.mhwltd.com/
Follow us! LinkedIn | Instagram
Welcome to the MHW Mark podcast, where we take deep dives into various aspects of the alcohol industry. My name is Jimmy Moreland. Mhw is a US and EU beverage alcohol importer, distributor and service provider. Co-hosting with me today is a returning favorite, mhw's Michelle Street-Bodette. Hey, michelle, how have you been?
Speaker 2:Hey, jimmy, I'm so excited to be back.
Speaker 1:We're back and it's a little warm. It's unseasonably warm. We're recording this podcast a little bit ahead of schedule. We're in early November right now and it's feeling a little warm.
Speaker 2:It's been very warm, it's been very nice, but at the same time it's like it's very strange, Like crazy, that Halloween felt like almost like a very warm spring day. I mean great for everyone in costumes, but just very, very weird this time of year.
Speaker 1:Now again, we're recording this in early November People will be hearing it Thanksgiving week, but as we're recording this, you just came back from Bar Convent Berlin Trip report. How was it?
Speaker 2:It was fantastic. So this year MHW did have its own booth, because the last few years we had just attended and we had hosted a brand pitch competition. But this year we decided to have our booth and so our marketing team both Bridget and Cassidy worked really, really hard to not just coordinate our booth but make sure that they filled up our meeting schedules for the few salespeople, including myself, that attended. So it was just really great. We got to meet with a ton of new brands, meet existing clients and meet existing partners that we work with in the industry. So overall, we left feeling really really good and just very happy with the results of the show.
Speaker 1:Well, that's great to hear. I'm jealous and maybe next year we'll get myself out there.
Speaker 2:Yes, for sure.
Speaker 1:Let's get to work here. Let's get down to business and introduce our guest. Our guest today is the Senior Director of Client Strategy at Force Brands and we're delighted to have her here. Welcome, Rachel Dueck.
Speaker 3:Thank you, jimmy. Good to meet you, michelle, great to see you.
Speaker 2:Of course. No, it's so great to have you on the podcast today, Rachel.
Speaker 1:Now, rachel, if you could, I guess, help us out. I read out your title the Senior Director of Client Strategy at Force Brands. Can you give us a little bit of context for what that title means and just a little bit about your background and your current role there at Force Brands, just for the listeners to have some context here?
Speaker 3:Yes, of course, of course. Yeah, I'll start with a little bit of background, going back probably about 15 years ago. I started my career in physician recruitment so completely different industry and who would have thought physicians actually needed recruitment? But they did, at the time at least. So I was in my full time role in physician recruitment. I was always mixologist on the side.
Speaker 3:Long story short, I met our founder this was over 14 years ago Josh Wand, and he had just started, probably like two years into starting the one of its like, first of its kind recruitment from that focus specifically in beverage alcohol. So we joined forces. I was probably like his fifth employee and, yeah, like I said, we were focusing in beverage specifically. I started at the company as an executive recruiter. I've probably held maybe five or six different roles within the organization, from internal talent acquisition, training, like I said, executive recruitment, business operations, sales operations, and then about five years ago I transitioned to our client strategy team.
Speaker 3:Our company as a whole focuses on the entire consumer economy. So three years into you know Belforce, we expanded into food and cannabis and beauty, health and wellness and pet food. Now, so we're across the board. Five years ago, when I moved into my new role, I was heading up the beverage alcohol division, which I now like to call the adult beverage division because there's just so many facets to beverage alcohol or the adult beverage industry as a whole. So I currently oversee our client partnership. So I work across all of our clients specifically, specifically in beverage alcohol and adult beverage and I support them in organizational design, search, strategy, hiring and I'm basically a go-to for any of their needs when it comes to talent acquisition, talent acquisition.
Speaker 2:That's great, rachel, too, and I'm so happy to have you as a partner, too, for MHW.
Speaker 2:I was very familiar with BevForce for a number of years, but I think it was in 2019 that you and I first met at WSWA and since then it's just been so great to have you as one of our key contacts at BevForce for the entire business development team at MHW, just because, obviously, talent and recruitment is something so valuable for our clients. And you know, as we're having like calls with potential clients too, you know when they're asking for tips and you know how do they best, you know, navigate through the US beverage, alcohol or adult beverage industry. The key aspect is, you know, hiring. You know who's going to be the person out there selling the product.
Speaker 2:A lot of the startups we work with in the very beginning they might not be able to afford hiring a full-time person in the beginning, so they might be doing a lot of it on their own, but as they're starting to expand, it has to be something that they're thinking about really from day one so that they understand the investment behind it. So thank you for all the support that. You know both our clients and potential clients, who need this guidance, like we really appreciate the partnership that we have with you.
Speaker 3:Yes, thank you no, and it has been a great partnership. I do remember the first time we met at the trade show and we bump into each other at pretty much every single trade show, at least that I attend.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, it's great, I always see him, like Rachel. Yeah, I always know you're going to be there, so it's always so great that we can, you know, reconnect and just talk about what's going on. What's new like, what new brands are we seeing?
Speaker 3:You know it's a great relationship and it's all about the trends, my friend, all about the trends.
Speaker 2:So, moving on, like, obviously we've been in a period of rapid change, especially in a post COVID world, and now we're going to see in a post-election world. It will be very, very interesting to see, like, what changes we see with hiring. What's the most surprising shift in how companies attract and retain top talent in the beverage industry?
Speaker 3:I guess the first thing I would say is that it's certainly a lot easier with the economy being how it's been the entire year. It's certainly a lot easier to retain talent now as a company than it has been in previous years. When I started back in 2010,. We were just coming off of a recession, michelle, I don't know, I don't remember if you were in the industry quite yet at that time, but it was interesting. It was interesting. It was like we had the most amazing talent you know, out there on the market and you know our clients, our partners, they were just like swarmed a plethora of candidates were coming to them and they just didn't know how to select the best one because there were so many of them. And now retaining is a lot easier because candidates, talent leaders, managers, c-suite, they don't want to take the risk. You know they're concerned about their future.
Speaker 3:I think, as you know everyone might be right now there's been a lot of changes, you know, during COVID, since COVID. So again, it's definitely been easier. But I mean, I would say, when I do see candidates looking, it really, you know, I think it really boils down and the transparency and the vision and values within that organization, whether they're, you know, a startup or they're an importer trying to, you know, have growth in the US market or the larger you know suppliers or distributors. Candidates want to feel. They want to feel that value around mission, transparency, vision and values. I think that's probably transparency, vision and values. I think that's probably one of the most important things in the market right now and proving to be a major draw when retaining talent.
Speaker 2:It's great that you say that too, because it's not just compensation that a lot of the generations are caring about. You're entirely right, and I think we're seeing that with a lot of the younger generations millennials, gen Zs like it's really the mission and like you know how are they doing to contribute to their company and the industry that they're in. That makes a lot of sense, that you know. That's what you're seeing as well, like out there in the job pool.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and listen, you know to your point about compensation, and we just released a salary report I don't know if you saw it, but it's our 2025 salary report and we did like a whole survey on, you know, on talent, and you know what they're looking for, what would cause them to make a move from their organization, and I think a lot of what I just mentioned has to do with it. Compensation is also something that's there as well, right, of course, at the end of the day.
Speaker 2:That's why we're all working.
Speaker 3:Exactly, Exactly. And it's so competitive right now too, You're seeing candidates get multiple offers and really I've seen compensation and ranges skyrocket in a sense. On average, I think maybe 40% of most executives are getting, you know, a 5% increase. So that's a part of you know retaining as well. So if they're not seeing that, that's also causing them to maybe not feel like the loyalty is there.
Speaker 1:For our listeners who are interested in that market report. We will drop a link to that in the show notes. It's on the forcebrandscom website, but we'll put a direct link just for ease of navigation for you there. So thanks for making that available to us, rachel.
Speaker 2:Awesome, of course. Great Thanks, jimmy, and thanks Rachel for that. I think that'll be really helpful as a resource for a lot of our clients to have on hand. That's great, given your unique perspective. What's one thing leaders get wrong about? Company culture.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's a good question. You know, and it kind of goes hand in hand with what I was saying earlier. You know, a lot of times I think leaders to attract talent, you know they tend to focus specifically on you know benefits and perks and you know all of these amazing things and you know work from home and a hybrid schedule. And I'm not saying those things aren't important, but I think company culture means much more than you know these things and you know you're paying your employees. You know 100% of benefits, like that's great, that's amazing and people want that because they feel you know like they really are a part of the organization. The organization cares. You know. But company culture and feel you know like they really are a part of the organization. The organization cares.
Speaker 3:You know but company culture and creating you know that shared vision and meaningful experiences. You know a lot of us are working, you know remotely and so it's important to you know have that. You know cross-functional communication and understanding and alignment with. You know personal and professional values and goals as well. You know I think a lot gets lost when you're sitting, you know, kind of behind. You know behind your computer at home. You know on a daily basis and so just providing, like I said, the transparency and just the valuable experiences, whether it's like being out in the field with your mentor or going to a you know leadership exchange or a national sales meeting. I think all of those things are really important and leaders, you know, tend to not always focus on those things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I couldn't agree with you more there, rachel, and it's, you know, very interesting, you know, especially having been at MHW For me it's almost been, I believe it's nine years coming up on January.
Speaker 2:So, pre-covid, you know we were, you know, in office five days a week, you know eight hours a day, and you know we had such a strong company culture. Our HR director was always, you know, arranging different. You know get togethers and in-office events and all of that and like how to navigate that when we then went to like a fully remote company, especially in the beginning with COVID, was very difficult and you know, since then, you know we found ways to navigate around that. But I also found it very interesting, you know, at that time, you know, I would say like around 2021 or so, as the manager of the business development team at the time, I had started interviewing and I found, with a lot of the candidates it was usually like the final question they like asked at the end, but it was something that every single candidate asked and you could just tell how important it was.
Speaker 3:You know they were like?
Speaker 2:what does the company culture look like at MHW? Because, like you know, everyone and a lot of the candidates nowadays are really thinking about that work-life balance, and it's not just about, like you know, compensation, salary or even you know how are they contributing to the mission. They still want to know, like, how do I fit in this company and like, what does my future look like, like within the culture of this company? So yeah, I couldn't agree with you more there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and you know, I think it's a question we also get as we're interviewing and screening and vetting talent. You know, a lot of the you know a lot of the questioning is around company culture and I'll go into a little bit more later about leadership being a part of that. But I think that culture is oftentimes hard to explain. You know, when we first started our company, you know we kind of we said we're like a work hard, play hard culture. But like, what is that? You know, what does that really, what does that entail? And you know, I think creating sort of like that value mapping system where candidates, employees, come into an organization and they know, okay, listen, you know, these are our values, these are our hopes, these are our dreams, this is like our mission to get there.
Speaker 3:So 20, you know, 2024, this is what it looks like, our goals for 2025. So they like feel as though they're really a part of like and they know, like, what is the business doing? Am I launching it? You know, am I? Are we launching a new brand in 2025? You know are, are. Are we, you know, acquiring or are we, you know, trying to exit the business? And a lot of times I feel like there's that unknown that brings that uncertainty to. You know a lot, of, a lot of talent in the market and that's when you know the retention becomes an issue.
Speaker 1:I just I laughed when you talked about that that work hard.
Speaker 1:Play hard as a way to describe the culture, because there's all the jokes out there about certain buzzwords, they might seem like they're a good idea to put on Indeed or your, whatever the job posting is, but when you see like we're like a family, or you see fast paced, you know, seeks a rock star, we're looking for a rock star Like those actually might end up driving talent away because they've been in tough employment situations where those keywords turned out to be like really really bad signals. Have we learned lessons? Is there data about how to communicate honestly but also favorably about what a company's culture might be?
Speaker 3:organization and create a job description. But like I think inherently, especially if you're a new brand or like a new business, those like you know, those those fluffy words come to mind and they do tend to make now make candidates nervous. You know, talking about you know we're looking for a rock star. You know there has to be some really like defined way to like what is a rock star to you. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:To me that means lots of unpaid overtime.
Speaker 3:Right, unpaid overtime? Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1:But I guess maybe a good way to sort of frame this question is just sort of general like are there, are there general best practices? Maybe that's too broad of a question, but do you have examples of how brands have made themselves really stand out as a great brand to work for on paper and on the web, and maybe even once you get to a face-to-face situation?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, I think when you're posting a job description or you're coming up with a job description that maybe you're talking through with a candidate, you have to, you have to gear it towards the general population.
Speaker 3:So I think at times there are, you know, we have to think about equity and inclusion and when you say certain things in a job description, candidates don't feel like it's an inclusive culture, right, like young, hungry.
Speaker 3:You know, work hard was in job descriptions a long, long time ago. So I think, just from a gen like, from a general outlook perspective, just you know, taking out the words that might make someone that might not be attractive to anyone and everyone, so just kind of like you know, and it depends on the, on the company and all of those things, but highlighting the mission and the values and you know all of those things, I think talking about you know the brand and what's next for you know the company, if you can add that into a job description. Or, yeah, I mean really just you know keeping it relatively, relatively broad. I mean we use job descriptions right when we're when we're talking to candidates broad. I mean we use job descriptions right when we're talking to candidates, we share them with candidates. But a lot of times, you know, we convey our message a little bit differently because we're talking about the nuances of all of those things that might not come out of the job description.
Speaker 1:If I'm say, I've got a beverage brand and I'm just getting started and maybe I'm moving into a new market or maybe I'm moving into the US from an overseas market, how early or when or how do I go about contracting or working with someone like Force Brands or just starting that relationship? Is it just an email? Is it a call? Do I go to a convention? How do I sort of start to lay the groundwork to start building an on-the-ground team in a given market?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I say, you know, have conversations early and often, and so I've, you know I've talked to brands before. They've even, you know, developed, you know their product. I'll use an example, you know, because I love this brand Rosaluna Mezcal. You know I was speaking with the founders when they didn't even have product in an actual bottle, right, but they were thinking early on like, ok, we have, you know, we have this product that we're launching. What's the launch strategy going to be? But, like, with that launch strategy, who do we need? What executive leaders, what leaders in general sales, marketing finance operations do we need in order to make this brand successful? Marketing finance operations do we need in order to make this brand successful? So I'd say, you know, whenever you have a like, yeah, if you have a concept, that's great. You have to have some of the pieces in play. Mhw, obviously, you know you guys can help them pull, you know everything together from that perspective. But I'm always open to conversations just to help sort of structure. You know, whether it's next year or five years from now. Like, what key hire do you need to make? And I always say to everyone, like, this is not a one size fits all. You know, I have. I have companies that come to me all the time and brands that have really had a lot of success and early on I tell them you know, you can't, you can't launch a brand, you can't go to market the same way, you know, xyz Tequila went to market right. When we think about you know, I mean Casamigos is always the one brand example that everyone comes to me about and says, hey, how did you build out that team? You know, and it all depends, right, like you have to look at the executive team and the founders and does this person, you know? Do they have a marketing background? Are they more business operations? And then kind of fit, you know, fit the pieces in place from there. And sometimes you, you know, are you launching in, you know, 24 markets? Are you launching in like three core markets? So it's always a different approach. And again, going back to like talent and how attract talent, knowing what that plan and what that structure looks like and having a leader that has had success is also critically important to building out the right team. At any point when we're pitching a job, who are the leaders within the organization? How do I trust that they have the wherewithal to build a successful brand, especially, you know, in a time of, like, saturation. I mean, we've had a saturated market in terms of brands for years and years and years.
Speaker 3:Going back to, you know, 2010,. When I started, it was like, oh, hey, I have a job, great, I'm interested. It's not like that anymore, you know, 2010,. When I started, it was like, oh, hey, I have a job, great, I'm interested. It's not like that anymore. You know, I just worked with a company recently who, you know, they just needed a change in leadership. But that leader, you know, having had that experience and building out teams and you know, had had many people working for him that would follow him to any organization.
Speaker 3:Like, those are really the important you know pieces and and so when you know companies come to me and they're like, hey, we need to hire, you know 20, you know 20 sales reps I don't always encourage them to do that Like, have, have the leader in place that's going to manage those people, and that leader might have a group of 20 sales reps that you know, that have worked with them before. Yeah, but again to to your, you know, to your question um, I love to have those early on conversations and just get to know people, because it's a human business Like it we are. We are human beings, it is our livelihood, it is our career, like we're all passionate. I think right, michelle, you could say like in this industry, like we're super passionate about the brands and what we do, but it's you have to know the people behind the business. You know, and the and the talented people that are out there.
Speaker 1:You know, there's many cases where we don't know what we don't know and say that I'm a brewer in Maine, for example, and my brand has caught fire up here and it's just, it's really growing and I'm a brewer, I'm not. I don't know how to run a big growing brand that's growing perhaps faster than I, than I thought it would, or know how to manage. So is this something that like, maybe MHW can help bridge that gap of? Hey, if you're wanting to grow into, say, the New York market, here are all the hires you should make and now Rachel is going to help you out, or is there? I guess, where does that handoff happen? Because I know that MHW obviously offers a lot of you know all of the licensing and compliance and all those things that could help you get into a new market. But I guess is there a lot of overlap in some of that more strategic decision-making as far as who to hire for what positions and how, and then how to actually go about acquiring the talent for those positions that you've decided on.
Speaker 2:Yes. So, jimmy, when we're having these conversations with clients, you know a big value of MHW is that we're offering all of the compliance, operational and accounting support. So usually the hiring comes into play for the sales and marketing side of the business, because that's the part that, like, mhw doesn't directly handle and that's why, like a lot of like clients work with us because they want to be able to control their destiny, they want to be able to make all of those important sales and marketing decisions and, you know, handle, you know, however they see fit. So that's why, you know, I love to provide Rachel as a referral from the very beginning, as does the rest of our business development team, because even though for some, especially startup brands, it might be a little too early for them to be able to afford, you know, hiring someone, but they have to be thinking about these types of things because that's really the only way that you're going to be successful in this industry. As Rachel said, it is a completely saturated market, like what makes you different than you know another brand, and the only way you're going to, you know, stick out is having people in the market. That's going to, you know, give samples. You know, liquid to lips obviously is key.
Speaker 2:So you know, like you said in your example, jimmy, you know, if I and MHW were speaking with you and you know you're a brewery in Maine and you're looking to expand into New York, I can cover all the things we can provide to you in New York as far as our distribution services are concerned. But one of the first questions I'm asking you is like, what is your strategy? Like, do you have a salesperson in the market? Like who is coming into the market and telling people about the brand? And if you don't have that plan in place, like I would say, you know, maybe let's hold on the distribution right now.
Speaker 2:Like you should, you know, figure what you're doing with this other aspect of the business first, like now's a great time, you know, for a call with Rachel, like you know, so that you can, you know, talk through your options there. Or you know, you know, sometimes some clients have already maybe some existing contacts that you know can help them in the very beginning, before they are at a point that they're ready to fully hire, you know, an in-state sales manager or whatever it is. But that's typically how we're able to, you know, bridge the gap between kind of more of the back office side of the business, which is what we handle, and then the front end side of the business for the hiring, even though I know, like Rachel, your company does also hiring for all other aspects of the business too, for companies who are managing in-house operations, compliance, whatever it might be as well.
Speaker 3:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 3:But to your point, some of the importers that we work with here in the US, you know they have their commercial sales, you know, general manager, but they don't need to have, you know, on the ground floor, a CFO or a VP of finance or a VP of operations here, so they work with an MHW, you know, in order to, you know, do basically the job of a million people in-house at MHW, and then we would work with them, you know more.
Speaker 3:So, on, like the commercial, you know, sales and marketing side, you know, and Michelle, like when you and I go to trade shows, like there's a lot of clients that you know we've done this before, right, we'll walk the trade show and you know we know all the same people, and so one of her clients, you know, might be looking to make a confidential move on, you know, on the marketing side, you know, maybe that leader in place isn't working and you know they need to make a shift, and so we always kind of collaborate from that aspect as well and I mean, I think we have very similar networks when it comes to the industry.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely Rachel. Would you be able to go through maybe just some of the options that Forest Brand offers as far as, like I know, the specialty is executive recruitment and that's a lot of what we were talking about today, but also I know there's the job board option especially. I know that comes into play for maybe some of the smaller brands in the beginning.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely so. We, you know, as a company, when, like I said, when we first started always going back to that, you know we wanted to have like a one-stop shop for anyone in the industry that was looking to make a hire and so we started a job board that was specific to beverage, alcohol. Now we service all of the consumer economy. But if you're a company, a brand, and you're looking to hire maybe you're Southern and you need to hire you know 100 sales reps post on the job board. I think if you ask most people in the industry where do they go when they're looking for a job, it's if you're, you know, entry level, mid-level, you're going to the force brand's job board where you're applying for opportunities. You know companies directly reach out and they manage that process. So it's kind of like it's like a LinkedIn, but specific to the industry. And, like I said, that's more entry-level, mid level.
Speaker 3:If you need to make a professional hire, which is, you know, manager, senior manager, director, our professional recruitment services is an option that you know you might want to consider and within that, like I said, we work on sales, marketing, operations, hr, you name it and then we have our executive recruitment services, which is, you know, similar in terms of service but a little bit different. You're dealing with higher level executives and we have different teams for that as well. But yeah, I mean any talent need, even if you just need compensation information, a job description, advice on how to hire, we have these services. But come to us for anything talent related. Or if you just want to talk about trends in the industry, I'm here for it want to talk about trends in the industry.
Speaker 1:I'm here for it All right. Now for the fun question that we always end with Rachel what is your favorite beverage these days? However, you want to define beverage, Interesting question and Michelle knows this.
Speaker 3:but I'm coming off of a little sober, curious moment. I'm no longer there. A little sober, curious moment, I'm no longer there. But if you were to ask me about two weeks ago, I would say cocktail. I love the Three Spirit Live Inner Cocktail which is it's like an elixir. So what I did was I'd pour it over ice and then add a little hint of the Wink THC seltzer. I know it's strange, but that was my thing not too long ago. But now I love tequila paper planes. Have you guys ever tried them? I?
Speaker 2:think I had a paper plane once.
Speaker 1:I've had a straight paper plane, but not a tequila one.
Speaker 2:Wait, rachel, remind me what's in that cocktail.
Speaker 3:Well, if you have it with tequila, you know you can use whatever type of tequila you want. Really, Blanco, I think, pairs a little bit better, Aperol, Amaro, and then you can use either lime or lemon, but it's really good. I can't drink a million of them, which I shouldn't be anyway.
Speaker 2:Oh, I mean it's a very strong drink. I think I've had a traditional paper plane. It's normally with whiskey.
Speaker 3:It's actually normally with gin, if you yeah that's what you're right. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I think I actually had it at a previous WSWA, I think, when WSA was at the Gaylord Palms um in Florida and so, uh, one of their fancy restaurants there um made it. I remember they served it like in a martini glass with like a little paper plane. It was very cute. So I think that was like the one and only time I tried it so good.
Speaker 3:So good.
Speaker 1:Michelle, it's been a while since we've asked you the question. Has your answer changed?
Speaker 2:Yes, I would say so. I am also doing a very sober, curious period in my life right now. So I've been getting creative at home with non-alcoholic cocktails. So, as Rachel had mentioned, three Spirits Livener is a fantastic elixir which, if you remember, jimmy, I had made a mocktail on one of the prior podcasts. I had called it the Free Spirited Lavender Haze and so it had the Three spirits livener, lavender, simple syrup and fresh squeezed lemons and that was amazing. So that's a great mocktail. I have not made that in a while, I would probably say. Right now I've been getting very creative with tonics and different like mixed drinks I can make with that. So you know I love like fresh cucumber adding. You know that with like lime. There's a lot of great like non-alcoholic beers that I've been trying, like you know, athletic, I know they're one of the um the key beers out there and I just got a chance to try their, their pumpkin version for.
Speaker 2:October. So that was really cool. I have to say, it is amazing to see how much the non-alcoholic category is emerging. And, um, you know, rachel, I know you're seeing this at all the trade shows we had seen each other at Barcom in Brooklyn and I was just at Barcom in Berlin and there are so many non-alcoholic brands out there. So it's just really cool and it's really for everyone.
Speaker 2:Like I feel like a lot of people had like different perspectives on this category prior, including myself. Like I feel like a lot of times I was kind of like, eh, like you know, like almost like thinking like, as a consumer, why would I spend like the same amount of money for a non-alcoholic spirit compared to, like you know, an alcoholic spirit? But it's just a different mindset of, like you know, you know, whether you're, you know, having a sober period or you're just deciding, you know, that particular day, or maybe, like you've had a drink. You know you had an alcoholic drink. You would like to have something you know fun, that's not just water or seltzer or whatever, but you don't want it to have alcohol. It's just a great alternative. And you know, I think consumers are starting to realize like there is, like you know a value to that too. And like you know, um, you know, spending money for a good quality non-alcoholic spirit is still, like you know, good money spent Like it's not just all about like does it have alcohol or not.
Speaker 2:So I feel like being in this sober period in my life, I like now just have like a completely different perspective and I am so excited, like when I go to restaurants and they have, you know, non-alcoholic cocktails on there and they're calling it all different names. You know mocktails, free spirited cocktails I know that's usually like my favorite term and sometimes, like you know, if you go to restaurants that don't have that yet because like it's not everywhere yet, it's still like a very like emerging type category and a lot of like you know the um, the cities or Metro areas you'll find this. But even where I'm based in New York, on Long Island, you won't find it everywhere that they have like a you know a custom non-alcoholic cocktail menu. So I almost love looking at the cocktail menu and being creative and then asking you know the waiter, waitress or bartender like hey, can I get this? But like non-alcoholic version. So it's just been kind of like a new, exciting era to kind of see this part of the beverage industry.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I agree, and I actually heard a new term for it recently, um, so I'm not coining this term, but have you heard zebra striping? Have you heard that? Like when, when you drink like non-alcoholic beverages, but are also still having cocktails? Maybe it's a separate occasion, but people are kind of incorporating, like the, the the two together just in their lifestyle.
Speaker 2:I love that I have not heard of that term, but that makes so much sense. So it's like, yeah, with the stripes choosing like you know when and what occasions you choose to drink alcohol versus, like, non-alcoholic alternatives. I love that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, it's, it's, it's cool, but, like I said, I am not coining that. That is for the person that said it. Um, but yeah, no, that's awesome. Good for you. Good for you Getting creative with the non-alcoholic cocktails. I love it.
Speaker 1:Definitely, this is now the MHW no elk podcast. Here we go.
Speaker 2:Beverage alcohol is still very much like popular, though, because obviously we're all in this business and you know in it for that category but you know support the whole beverage industry in general, the whole adult beverage industry, all right?
Speaker 1:Well, huge thanks to our guest today, rachel Dueck, for stopping by Listeners. You can check out what's going on at forcebrandscom, or there'll be links to that and some more cool stuff in the show notes. So, rachel, thank you so much for stopping by.
Speaker 3:Thanks for having me. It's been so fun.
Speaker 1:And thank you listeners for joining us on the MHW Mark podcast and thanks again to Michelle Street-Bodette for joining me in hosting.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, jimmy, and thank you, rachel, for joining us.
Speaker 1:This podcast is produced by me, Jimmy Moreland, with booking and planning support by Cassidy Poe and Bridget McCabe. It's presented by MHW. Find out more at mhwltdcom or connect with MHW on LinkedIn. Lend us a hand by subscribing, rating and reviewing this podcast wherever you listen. We'll be back in your feed in two weeks. We'll see you then, Cheers.