The MHW Mark Podcast
Welcome to the MHW podcast, bringing you conversations with experts and leaders in the alcoholic beverage industry. Covering topics ranging from selling alcohol online, creating a new brand from scratch, and what you need to know when you start doing business internationally. Hosted by Jimmy Moreland and a rotating cast of cohosts from the folks at MHW.
The MHW Mark Podcast
Tasting Competitions and Relationship Building for Brands - with Amanda and Toby Blue
The MHW Mark Podcast kicks off 2025 with a bang, welcoming leaders from The Tasting Alliance to share advice and insights for brands curious about entering a tasting competition - and how to capitalize on their awards when they win.
The Tasting Alliance's President and Chief Operating Officer Amanda Blue and Chairman and Board Member Toby Blue joins MHW's Brigid McCabe and host Jimmy Moreland to talk about how tasting competitions work, what goes on at awards shows, and how Tasting Alliance Consulting helps brands fill in blind spots.
More about The Tasting Alliance: Website
More info about MHW at https://www.mhwltd.com/
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Welcome to the MHW Mark podcast, where we take deep dives into various aspects of the alcohol industry. My name is Jimmy Morland. Mhw is a US and EU beverage alcohol importer, distributor and service provider. Co-hosting with me today is for the new year MHW's Bridget McCabe. Welcome and Happy New Year.
Speaker 2:Happy New Year. Glad to kick this off.
Speaker 1:Good to have you back. Resolutions Bridget, New ones for this year. Reflections on last year. Are you a resolutions person?
Speaker 2:I like to take a look. I'm very introspective, so I like to take a look at the year past and try and level set and create new goals for the new year. Resolutions for this year. I would say certainly be more healthy. I think that's one that everybody tries to adapt in the new year. But I'm going back, after having birth, to Pilates three times a week and spinning at least two to three times a week. So that is something that I really want to anchor for just some time to myself, as well as some time working out. So that's one. And then, of course, you know, mhw is growing at a fast clip. So, helming the marketing department here, I'm looking to explore more partnerships and build relationships with people. I think that's what this industry is all about and what this podcast is all about. So I think we're going to have some really, really great guests in your head.
Speaker 1:That's great Good personal and professional resolutions there. Mine are pretty similar trying to take better care of myself personally and then professionally I'm actually trying to tap the brakes a little bit on some of my professional growth. That kind of like got a little bit out of control to where I was kind of pulling my hair out, trying to keep on top of everything.
Speaker 2:You're very much in demand. I'm happy that we have you.
Speaker 1:I've got a 200-year-old house that desperately needs a whole lot of attention this winter, and so I want to make some space to get some of that work done.
Speaker 2:That's great, and you know what? That could also be a creative outlet as well. You could do a little bit of both. It's very technical, but you and Freya could make it fun.
Speaker 1:Creative. Creative is an interesting word. It's creating some new bald spots, for sure. All right, well, let's, let's get to it. We've got a really cool conversation today. Can you tell us, like, what are we diving into with this chat today?
Speaker 2:Yes, so we've talked about competitions in previous podcast episodes. This one, I'm really excited. We have the Tasting Alliance team and Tasting Alliance I think 98% of people in the beverage alcohol industry know of this, but if you don't it's comprised of world-class competitions including, but certainly not limited to, san Francisco, new York, singapore and recently, latin American World Wine and Spirits competitions. It has an incredible legacy. They've been around for many, many years, since the 80s, and what many people may be pleased to learn is that Tasting Alliance has also launched an advisory group called the TAA the Tasting Alliance Advisors and they're brand agnostic, no fee. They're a consultancy that basically matchmakes the world's most trusted spirits professionals with brands that are looking for different areas of support. You only get access to that if you are an entrant to one of the competitions. So we'll hear more about this development, along with many others, in speaking with Amanda and Toby Blue.
Speaker 1:It's a very good chat, and so we'll quit delaying here and jump right into it. Let's go ahead and introduce our guests. They are the president and chief operating officer of the Tasting Alliance and chairman and board Officer of the Tasting Alliance and Chairman and Board Member of the Tasting Alliance, respectively. Welcome to the show, amanda and Toby Blue Welcome.
Speaker 4:Thank you for having us Thank you so much for having us.
Speaker 1:It's nice to be here. Thank you so much for being here. Now I'd love to have Bridget take the lead here, since you're the expert, bridget.
Speaker 2:Absolutely so. If you know anything about fine wine, beer or spirits, you know the name, amanda. She's been at this for a better part of a decade. She previously was in the film business before she took the helm at Tasting Alliance competitions, and everyone who's been following Tasting Alliance has seen the growth and the new opportunities that have arisen from this amazing company.
Speaker 2:Toby Blue I've had the opportunity to get to know through the Laura Badish firm as she's on their Tasting Alliance consulting board, and so I've heard a little bit about all of the great technology marketing advertising that he's brought to the Tasting Alliance consulting space and excited to get a chance to really dive into the Tasting Alliance advisors, which is their strategic brand agnostic consultancy and advocacy network, which is really built of the world's most trusted and respected spirits professionals.
Speaker 2:So I just want to kick it off and say, amanda and Toby, thank you so much for joining. We're really excited to have you here. And first I want to acknowledge the incredible spirit of your late father, anthony Diaz-Blue, who was one of the earliest names that I heard when I joined the industry and it was very important when I was at Purity Vodka to make sure that we, you know, had the respect and the attention of him and that we were a part of all the competition. So this is something I've been following for a very long time. I want to hear from you about the origin story of the business and how it all began.
Speaker 3:Well, our father was the wine and spirit editor for Bon Appetit for many years and was the editor for the Zagat Guide in San Francisco wine competition, which was a state fair, city state fair in about 1983 and started running it and the fair itself closed and so he decided to take it over and create a competition separate from the fair. So that happened around 1986. And that grew into one of the largest North American wine competitions in the world. And then he started the spirits competition, when spirits were not really that hot on the market but cocktails were beginning to. There was a renaissance for cocktails and he began the spirits competition in 2000,. And it has grown into the largest spirits competition in the world and we thank him for his amazing pioneership in our industry.
Speaker 1:I'd like to know sort of from both of you how did you? How and perhaps why? Why did you decide to join the business? Why not go somewhere else?
Speaker 3:Well, for me it was sort of not something that I was planning to do. I was in the film business, started having children so took some time off and then started being interested in my dad's business, but wasn't something that I was planning to get involved in, but saw the need for the leadership that was involved at that point to be replaced and sort of revive the competition and create a new leadership team that was more invested and more part of our family. Because this is our family's legacy, it's really important that everything is done with extreme integrity and it's our responsibility to keep up the name for our dad.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and my route is a little bit more circuitous and I came in a little bit later. I come from a background in marketing and had my own agency for many years, also worked in the entertainment industry and own agency for many years, also worked in the entertainment industry and came in a couple years ago and really have kind of applied my entrepreneurship and background within the marketing world and we're going to talk a little bit about advisors later. But that's really the skill set that I brought into it and it's been really interesting to learn more about this business and the industry and Amanda's done an incredible job of really growing the Tasting Alliance to be what it is today.
Speaker 2:And so that actually flows really nicely, toby. Into my next question, which is for Amanda how have you been able to keep San Francisco Spirits and Wine Competition the top vanguard? Over the years, I've seen a number of initiatives come out. Is there something you can share with our listeners about what is cooking and what are some of the latest things that you have introduced over the last two to three years?
Speaker 3:Sure, well, I felt like it was important when I first stepped in to sort of shake up the judging panel. There was a lot of industry icons on that panel, but there was not a lot of diversity, so that was one of the things that I wanted to concentrate on was adding different not only different backgrounds, but different genders, different races, just you know in order to make sure that we had the full breadth of people that could judge and give an accurate description of, you know, the best of the best. So we have writers, we have critics, we have experts. We've got masters of whiskey, masters of wine, so we have people that are in education, and I think that that's really important to have that breadth of knowledge represented.
Speaker 3:We've standardized the judging procedure as well, with judging education as well as adding technology, meaning we do all of our judging now on iPads, so there's no bias in the competition judging sessions, meaning you know you might have a newer judge that says oh, you know, I don't know what to give this, I'm going to wait till everybody else says what they're going to give and then maybe, you know, I'll come up with the same thing. We don't allow for that anymore. Everything is done on iPads. The panel coordinator who is taking the votes gets the is populated with the votes that all the judges have given, so there is no bias involved anymore.
Speaker 3:And then a media plan. We've put in a strong media plan in place where we we have made our results come out in spurts, where it's finalists first, to sort of entice the consumer and the enthusiast about what is the best of the best, and then again it goes to Top Shelf, which is our big event of the year where the winners are actually announced. So we have these finalist articles coming out every two weeks right after the competition that leads up to Top Shelf where the winners are actually announced. So I think all of that together, plus a lot of different other initiatives we have we've started a competition in Singapore, we've started one just this year in Latin America, so I think it's just covering all territory.
Speaker 2:I honestly don't know how you do it. Your expansion is so fast but it's also so thorough, so it's not something. I've never seen, something that your company has put out where it hasn't been just complete 360 thought around what the brands might want, what the judges might want, what reflects the consumer. I think the diversity aspect you just brought up is a really good point too, because a lot of the consumers that are shopping and looking at these metals want to know that it reflects their palates as well. So I think the capability for you to have built that in is very smart and excited to share some information with our brands about the Latin American competitions as well.
Speaker 2:So we'll make sure to get that out over our listservs. But definitely all good things and I you know if there's any brands listening, we'll drop it in the show notes, but please make sure that you're entering these competitions. They're the number one in the world and the medal means a lot and, just like Amanda said, there's a lot that you can do with it from a marketing perspective. It doesn't just end after the competition. These medals span years and years after you secure them, so definitely make sure to check them out.
Speaker 3:And that's something I would love to address, because some people obviously there are a lot of big brands that enter which are, you know, stalwarts in the industry and you know the Diageos, the Brown Formans, the Sampson, surrey's, the Heaven Hills that want to keep cementing their legacy as these very high quality brands.
Speaker 3:But there's also a lot of young brands that are coming onto the scene, that enter just sort of for a fluke, and we know that the entry fee is pricey. We definitely are aware of that. But, as a lot of our judges have said, and some of these companies as well, the return on investment, if you do well, is so exponentially more valuable than the $595 that you have to pay to enter. You can't pay a publicist, you can't create a marketing campaign or even take a photo shoot for that amount of money and the amount of publicity that we get you afterwards, whether you're in Forbes or you're on our social media, where our 40,000 followers are looking, or you're on our website and you're shoppable, all of these things are. I mean, you know I can understand how daunting $595 sounds to the small brand, but again, it's sort of priceless if you do well.
Speaker 2:It is so worth it. I would second that big time. And I think even the top shelf event, which MHW sponsored this past year, that had so many gold and double gold winners that some of them weren't even in the market yet, Some of them had just come to market. So listen, if you're trying to make your entry into the US, which is a collection of countries, not states, I say in terms of your marketing and your sales plans, this is an opportunity to really get a national look from distributors, from importers, from different retailers. So definitely get involved. And I think that actually flows nicely into the question that Jimmy had about the Top Shelf event.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I guess sort of. I'm looking at the website. You know the website for listeners out there. We will put it in the show notes. You just simply just go to thetastingalliancecom. You can look at past award winners and take a look at the Top Shelf dot com. You can look at past award winners and take a look at the top shelf. There's a. There's a funny note in here that some folks out there have known this as the Oscars of alcohol. Now I don't want the Academy coming and suing the MHW Mark podcast, so some people have known this as the Oscars.
Speaker 3:It's been published in lots and lots and lots of articles that we are the Oscars of the booze industry. So, you are not going to get into any problems, we'll consider that safe to say then.
Speaker 1:So tell us about the Top Shelf event, like the background, how did it come to be? And, just yeah, give us the lowdown. What's the event about? What's the vibe, what does it offer to people who submit, who participate, who win and so forth?
Speaker 3:So Top Shelf is geared towards the expert and the enthusiast, meaning people that want to be more educated about the spirits that they're drinking or to learn about the culture of how their mezcal is made, where their mezcal is made. So that is the person that we're trying to reach and we give this opportunity to all brands that win double gold in our competitions to exhibit and they will get in front of all the retailers. We had a speed networking event where MHW sponsored, where we had five different retailers, we had PR companies, we had importers, we had e-com companies. So all those brands that were in attendance, that were exhibiting and then were just attending, could meet with those people, get in front of them and explain, you know, their project, their passion. I thought it was really important to have an event like this because it shouldn't end with just receiving a medal. It should be a full, you know, 360, holistic approach to your brand. So meaning, you know once, there's a lot of people that are like that they know what they want to do. Once they have the medal, they'll put it on their social media, they'll put it in their marketing campaigns.
Speaker 3:But there are some, you know, younger companies that are like what do we do now? I have no idea. So they can come to Top Shelf, they can meet all with all these people and really find out what their next steps are. And then for the consumer, you get to see things that you know are rare releases or are not even at market yet and explore some of the best spirits in the world. And then that culminates you know the masterclasses, the Grand Expo, the speed networking. That all culminates in a big black tie gala, which is a lot of fun because you know these people, these brands. It was like the VIP, all in one room and everyone gets to wear their nice fancy dresses and we get to find out who wins the best of the best. I don't think that we have mentioned yet, but in San Francisco alone we get around 6,000 entries. So for you to be, you know, invited to that gala, it's a very big deal.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and we had MHW and USA Wine West team members and directors represent, and I got a call the next day after the gala from our operations director out of USA Wine West, serena, who was like you'll never believe it. I was seated at a table with one of our spirits clients who I'd been working with for eight years and had never had an opportunity to meet in person. They flew in from across the world to attend the top shelf and they had won one of the golds and it was just such a nice opportunity for her to reconnect with one of her clients that she had never met in person. And so it's a really dazzling night and it's a great opportunity to, you know, connect with different brands and you know, one of the things that our brands ask us a lot is, after they enter these competitions, there might be a request for, you know, maybe they're looking to modify their formula a little bit or perhaps, as Amanda mentioned, they need a little bit of help with their marketing plan or identifying different markets, maybe a sales strategy.
Speaker 2:So, toby, this question is for you. I would love to hear a little bit about your thought process behind starting the partner network Tasting Alliance Consulting. I think it's a really brilliant addition. And what are the areas of strategic alignment that you provide guidance in?
Speaker 4:It's something I identified pretty early after I came in and really it's it's the opportunity to create a network and to give back to the industry. It's something that we we do not charge any money for for the winners of the competition. And really the basis of it is that I identify kind of a white space for a lot of the emerging brands that come into the competition. And so we created this network and it's everything from product development to brand strategy, to recruitment and headhunting, to brand activations and everything along that value chain. And really what happens is a lot of the emerging brands that come to San Francisco and end up winning, they don't really know what to do with that sort of accreditation, that validation that they get from the competition. And so I went out and sort of built this network that includes about 25 different what I will call partners and they're agencies of all different stripes along that value chain again of product development, brand strategy, recruitment and brand activations.
Speaker 4:I have the brands that come to us, and brands that come to us usually reach out to me at advisors at thetastingalliancecom and I have them fill out an intake form of what they're trying to achieve and it's like a five-page form where they go through all the different things and I just say you know, fill out where your needs are in terms of communications, in terms of whether or not you're looking for new branding, new packaging, and then we spend a couple hours together going through all of that and once I sort of go through that with them, I triage and look at the partners that we have within our network and I do what ostensibly is a matchmaking service and I take the partner again usually in this case will be an agency I introduce them to the brand and then they're off to the races, to the brand, and then they're off to the races.
Speaker 4:And we've had tremendous success in the first year of doing this, where, again, a lot of the brands don't really know how to maximize the exposure that they get from San Francisco. And it's such a great platform and, as Amanda pointed out, the investment can be exponential and a force multiplier as long as you're really applying it and using it to your advantage.
Speaker 2:I think this is something that a lot of our clients could definitely utilize, so I'm going to be encouraging them to enter, because do I have it correct that they have to flow through the competition in order to access the Tasting Alliance consulting resources?
Speaker 4:That's exactly right. And again, it comes at no cost, Obviously, once just to be clear, once we introduce them to the agency, the agencies do obviously have their fees and we try to be as transparent as possible. But the offering, the service from San Francisco Spirits Competition is free, from the Tasting Alliance is free.
Speaker 3:And this applies to all of our competitions Latin America, singapore and New York.
Speaker 2:Excellent. So just another reason, listeners, why you should be entering. You get access to this table of agencies and resources and matchmaking there.
Speaker 1:Can I ask a quick question about the different? So we've got these different sort of global sort of geographies with these competitions. Should I, as a brand, if I've got a very limited budget for my competition, spend, if you will, should my, if I've got a mezcal or something like that? Should the particular type of spirit that I'm producing, should that factor into which competition I enter? Does it matter if my mezcal goes into Singapore versus LATAM versus San Francisco, or is there like a different vibe in each of these different competitions, or is it pretty well each one is a global competition?
Speaker 3:Each one is a global competition, but we have, let's say, for Singapore, we have local media and we have local, you know brand reps and distribution and importers that are concentrating on those results a little bit more. Each of these countries has different distribution and different even alcohol laws. So, again, latin America just started this year, but it was about local media. We had the support from the CRT, which is the governing board of tequila. We had a press conference there that we did all in Spanish, which was quite fun. We had the support of the government of Guadalajara, which is in Jalisco, which is the main producing region for tequila. So, yeah, it really just depends on what you're looking for. For a small brand that's just available in Mexico, it probably doesn't make a lot of sense to enter into San Francisco. The shipping fees are going to be a lot more and if you have no plans to be distributed in the US, it's not as valuable as getting in front of your local market, your local retailers, your local distributors. For people that are on a global scale, it makes sense to.
Speaker 3:We have a lot of brands that enter all of our competitions. First of all. You have the chance then to win a triple still award, which means if you've gotten a double gold at all of our competitions, you get that award and that recognition at Top Shelf and you're featured a lot in all of our marketing materials and stuff like that as a winner of all of those different competitions. So I would say there's value in entering all of them. Plus, the palettes in each of these different regions are very different. You know, the American palate for agave-based spirits tends to go sweeter. Our judges are not tasting based on their personal preference. They're tasting based on what they think will do best at market. So it also is about regional palates and regional preferences.
Speaker 2:That's a great point. And the other thing that I had little beaker of double gold or finalists from the competition Very cool, very cool. And then the other area that I wanted to address, because I've been wishing and praying and hoping for this for so long, is an RTD competition.
Speaker 3:Praying. Don't waste your prayers on RTDs.
Speaker 2:It's the area that needs it the most, because consumers love them.
Speaker 2:It's continuing to take off. Every month at MHW we're signing new RTD clients, so there's no sign of stopping. But it's really hard. When you're shopping, your judgment basically goes down to the packaging design, which it's really hard. When you're shopping, you know, your judgment basically goes down to the packaging design, which that's important too. I'm sure that's a judging category, but you know, if someone wants an RTD, that's easy, convenient. You know, maybe they're tailgating or they have a picnic or family in town, something's going on where they're not going to be making elaborate cocktails. You want to know that that taste profile is good at least. So, out of curiosity, how did you put together the judges for this sector, since it's a little bit of a creative, new, innovative category?
Speaker 3:Well, I will say we started it right, I think in the first year of pandemic. I mean, we had already always been accepting RTDs, but obviously during pandemic that sector sort of exploded. I think then we were seeing that a lot of the stuff that was on the market before pandemic was sort of low quality, low quality based liquors and just so we're clear. I don't know that if we even spoke about this before, but all of our judging is blind. So packaging does really affect the consumer, but I think that they do want to know what's the quality of the juice inside the bottle. So our judges do not see any packaging, so they are just poured, you know, a little Glencairn of the liquid and have to go from there. I think the quality of the products has gotten so much more interesting and the flavor profiles are really really interesting and dynamic.
Speaker 3:The way we pick judges for that is people that are passionate about it, because there are some judges that will not. They will not do the RTD. That's not their wheelhouse, that's not what they want to do. Maybe they think it's a little bit not in their scope, but there are a lot of people that are really passionate about the area because it is such a growing area and it gives a lot of power to the consumer. So we ask our spirits judges, because it is a spirits competition. We ask all of our spirits judges you know, is this an area that you are excited about? Because we don't really want to put it in front of them if they're not. So we gather from our own pool of judges that we already have Now for our non-alcoholic sector, which is also a big, exploding sector. We get specific judges just for those panels. Spirits judges also can taste the non-alcoholic. But we also get specific non-alcoholic experts to judge those flights, because it is a really important sector that needs to have its own sort of specialized judge.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, and that's really cool that you're kind of putting together those two different judge types. I know there's a lot of people that drink and then stop drinking and go the NA route, and there's some as we're seeing with this new generation there are some people that just never drank but they still want to be involved in the culture of it, and so you do have sort of those folks that are looking for almost like the gin replica. But then you have some that are looking for more of you know that juice forward or you know more interesting flavor than just trying to replicate the alcohol itself. So that's very interesting to know. Any other new teasers for the industry to look out for in the future or anything that you want to share live on the MHW Mark podcast.
Speaker 3:We will be going to Pro Wine this year, so great, set up some meetings with us there. We will be taking on the wswa, the wine and spirits wholesalers of america. We're taking over their tasting competition at their access live event in february in Denver, so we will be leading their wine and their spirits competition. So that's a big deal. We'll be there hitting the ground, meeting with all the brands that are out there. We will be at Tales of the Cocktail, doing another couple activations there as well, and then hopefully we'll see all of you as guests or as nominees at Top Shelf in November, hopefully in San Francisco again.
Speaker 2:Excellent, and do you plan to keep it in San Francisco that?
Speaker 3:would be my goal. That is our city of origin. That is where I grew up, is a city that I love to pieces. It's obviously going through a hard time right now, so we're trying to bring you know the beverage community together there, which is very, very strong. So, yes, our ideal would be to keep it in San Francisco. We had it in Vegas for one year, but hopefully we keep it in San Francisco.
Speaker 4:I just wanted to add. We started this conversation by speaking about our father, anthony Dias Blue, and his legacy, and that's obviously really important to our family, and I think what he did over the course of 40 years is create an environment and ecosystem which is defined by its integrity, and the integrity of the competitions and the proprietary process whereby the judging takes place with those judges is the tip of the sword for us, and the quality attribution that these brands are getting as a result of that is very valuable by virtue of that integrity and the fact that the San Francisco Spirits Competition and the.
Speaker 4:Tasting Alliance is synonymous with quality.
Speaker 1:So we'll move on to our fun question that we like to ask all of our guests here, and that is what is your favorite? We'll say adult beverage what are we liking right now? And we'll ask both of you and Toby. We'll say adult beverage what are we liking right now? And we'll ask both of you and Toby we'll go ahead and let you answer first.
Speaker 4:You know my go-tos are definitely scotch. That's something that my dad and I enjoyed together. We would have Oban quite a bit, but just as a kind of a sipping adult beverage. I'm really into tequila right now and I usually just get it neat and I'm really enjoying a lot of the brands that are emerging out there in the tequila category.
Speaker 1:Very good Amanda.
Speaker 3:Well, I would say I am now really into dirty martinis With some blue cheese stuffed olives yes, why not? But for the holidays, since we are talking right now, during the holidays, I love a bourbon cocktail, an old fashioned or a Manhattan while sitting around the Christmas tree by the fire. We have a tradition in our house where, the day that we decorate the tree, we make spaghetti and meatballs from my husband's Italian family recipe and we drink Manhattan. So that's what I'll be sipping on this season.
Speaker 1:That sounds incredibly cozy.
Speaker 2:And do you both just have an incredible bar from all of the spirits and wines around the world?
Speaker 3:I do, I can't lie. Um, I definitely, you know, cherry pick, which ones come home with me, um, because there is so much volume of of what we get. But, um, you know, we just had our wine competition and I brought back a case, and competition and I brought back a case, and it's almost gone.
Speaker 2:You work hard, amanda and Toby. You both deserve that. You guys are, all over the world, always something new in fruition, so if there's any work perk that needs to be enjoyed, it's that.
Speaker 4:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Well, by the time listeners hear this, it will already be well into the new year, so we hope that you have enjoyed your Manhattans and spaghetti and that our listeners have all enjoyed their holidays as well. So I want to thank Toby and Amanda Blue for stopping by and sharing their expertise. The website is simply thetastingalliancecom. We'll have links to that and other things in the show notes that our listeners can check out. So again, toby and Amanda Blue, thanks for stopping by.
Speaker 3:Thank you so much for having us.
Speaker 4:Thank you so much for having us Really really a pleasure.
Speaker 1:And thank you listeners for joining us on the MHW Mark podcast and thanks again to Bridget McCabe for joining me in hosting.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, Jimmy.
Speaker 1:This podcast is produced by me, Jimmy Moreland, with booking and planning support by Cassidy Poe and Bridget McCabe. It's presented by MHW. Find out more at mhwltdcom or connect with MHW on LinkedIn. Lend us a hand by subscribing, rating and reviewing this podcast wherever you listen. We'll be back in your feed in two weeks. We'll see you then, Cheers.