The MHW Mark Podcast
Welcome to the MHW podcast, bringing you conversations with experts and leaders in the alcoholic beverage industry. Covering topics ranging from selling alcohol online, creating a new brand from scratch, and what you need to know when you start doing business internationally. Hosted by Jimmy Moreland and a rotating cast of cohosts from the folks at MHW.
The MHW Mark Podcast
Breaking into the Category: Mixers & Non-Alcs Part 2 - with Fresh Victor's H Ehrmann
Let's talk mixers! Host Jimmy Moreland and MHW's Cassidy Poe chat with H Ehrmann, Executive Vice President of National Accounts and Chief Mixology Officer at Fresh Victor about the value of partnerships, and how solving the logistical puzzle of refrigerated shipping opened a new world of business.
Find out more about Fresh Victor: Website
More info about MHW at https://www.mhwltd.com/
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Welcome to the MHW Mark podcast, where we take deep dives into various aspects of the alcohol industry. My name is Jimmy Moreland. Mhw is a US and EU beverage alcohol importer, distributor and service provider. My friends in the industry know that this is a busy time, and boy have the MHW people been jet-setting around at all these different industry events. You can keep up with the team by following them on Instagram, LinkedIn, pick your poison. Well, as a result of these busy schedules, I am flying solo on this introduction, but we have an excellent interview that we recorded earlier, during which I was joined by MHW's Cassidy Poe, so you'll hear her voice as we chat with our guest, and it's a great conversation that dives into the non-ALC side of this business, specifically cocktail mixers. So let's get into it. Our guest today is the Executive Vice President of National Accounts and Chief Mixology Officer at Fresh Victor. Welcome to the show, H Ehrman.
Speaker 1:Thanks for having me it's great to have you here. Can you give us a little bit of background on yourself, how you came to be at Fresh Victor and tell us about Fresh Victor?
Speaker 2:Well, I started my career as a cook when I was 16, on the Jersey Shore. I learned how to cook from a chef who had just come out of CIA but had previously worked for Paul Prudhomme. That was in the mid 80s, so I learned the early days of some of the trending Cajun cuisine, blackening seafood and such back in the day. And I caught the bug, like like a lot of people do when they're a teenager and in that environment. And I went on from there just continually, like a lot of people do when they're a teenager, in that environment. And I went on from there just continually, like a lot of people of my generation working in the restaurant industry, always saying that it's just what I'm doing now, not what I'm going to do worked my way through the house through various restaurants in New Jersey, boston, orlando, vail, colorado, phoenix, arizona, all the way through college and grad school. Eventually, when I graduated, I went to Boston College and I cooked in school. And then I went to Vail to be a ski bum after school and that's where I started bartending. After several years of bartending and having a great time as a ski bum, I decided I needed to get an MBA in order to pursue my business dreams. So I went and did that and I bartended through my MBA at Thunderbird in Phoenix, went on from there to live in Europe and work in PR for a bit and traveled around, continued traveling around Europe, visiting wineries, breweries, distilleries and bars, and came back from that into tech, the dot-com boom, which eventually brought me to San Francisco. At the dot-com bust I ended up back behind a bar to make rent and pay for my MBA. Marketing MBAs were not in much demand in 2000. And so after six months of helping somebody else open a bar, I decided all right, enough tech, I don't like the tech world. It's time for me to open a bar.
Speaker 2:So at that point I had worked in 18 different bars and restaurants around the country and I wrote a business plan, surveyed the market, quit everything else I was doing and raised the capital, bought a bar, bought the second oldest saloon in San Francisco because it fit what I was looking for. And as a history nut, I was really enthralled by what I could find of this place. And over the last 21 years of owning that bar called Elixir in the Mission District, I have uncovered tons of history about it, and now it is known as the second oldest saloon in San Francisco. I also, getting into the first few years of it, decided that in order to make it different and successful, I needed to ditch all of the stuff I had known about being in a bar forever and wrote my first cocktail menu, got rid of all of the artificial ingredients.
Speaker 2:I had been collecting tequila. I built a great tequila selection and then decided that I needed to switch it to whiskey, which fit more with the saloon motif. So I built up the whiskey collection and today we're known as one of the best whiskey bars in America. We were one of the pioneering cocktail bars of the early cocktail renaissance and it was about that time in the mid 2000s when I met Ken McKenzie and Ken had been in the tequila industry building a brand at the time and then eventually with another brand and he and I basically, and when we first met, he hired me several times to execute catering bars and events for his tequila brands.
Speaker 2:We became friends and eventually, when he came up with the idea of creating mixers like this, it's kind kind of it was perfect for us as partners because it's what I made my name in. In those early days of the cocktail revival, I was one of the guys that was muddling everything in a glass and buying everything at the farmer's market and incorporating culinary processes and techniques and concepts into my cocktails, into my original recipes, as well as employing and digging up old recipes and bringing back the cocktail heyday of the late Victorian era up to Prohibition, which also was in line with being a Victorian bar. So all of this stuff kind of lined up and Ken, basically after exiting from one of his tequila companies, came to me and said let's take this concept and turn it into its own company and get it out there and the whole idea was basically a lot of what I'd been doing in culinary cocktails and putting it in a bottle. So I'd spend a lot of the early to late 2000s traveling the country building another spirit brand as the brand ambassador, teaching bartenders how to squeeze limes and make simple syrup, back when they were all pouring basically shelf-stable mixers and lime cordials out of a bottle and calling them fresh when they weren't really fresh. So I was teaching people how to use juicers and food processors and things like infusions and such to get flavor and use real ingredients.
Speaker 2:And through that process, as a lot of people in the cocktail scene at the time will tell you, we went through a wave, I'd say between 2005 and 2010, of really exploring that. But also I personally even got into this bad habit of putting too many things in a glass, putting too many ingredients into and and taking too long to execute a cocktail, and so that was something that I think we as an industry, we went down a rabbit hole and then we kind of came back because we realized, well, we're getting all these great flavors and everything, but at the same time, people want service. They don't they don't want to lose the hospitality, they don't want to lose the experience waiting for 15, 20 minutes for a cocktail. So that all kind of got fixed and it also inspired. What fresh victor became was this whole idea of taking really fresh, truly fresh ingredients and processing them properly to maintain the flavor and integrity of a clean label, but making it convenient and efficient for people, and so that message started initially with the brand as a consumer message, as we launched, as a consumer product. But we found that, as we knew that the trade would embrace it as a solution for labor issues, spoilage issues, excessive expenses et cetera, and so we found that by pursuing the on-premise industry as a solution, we could really, from a business perspective, we could sell pallets instead of pints. So we kind of went down pints.
Speaker 2:So we kind of went down, made that our main focus, going into basically into the pandemic. We had decided to get rid of our retail line and focus on on-premise and then COVID hit. But in the same time we had, unfortunately, we had done all of like the branding redesign to into a 16 ounce package for retail and said let's sit on this for a while and focus on on-premise. Then the pandemic hit and we're like whoa, there goes all our business, call the printers. So we printed the 16-ounce labels and within six weeks we had set up a DTC channel through our website and we're selling to seven states in the West. Within two months I think we had 48 states for dtc and I spent most of the pandemic both selling fresh victor in in in the 64 ounce on-premise package, along with my entire liquor inventory at elixir to bay area consumers who were drinking at home, and I set up my own online system and had to let go of all of my staff at the bar.
Speaker 2:But eventually I brought back people as I could, and my bartenders became delivery drivers and we were selling a liter of tequila with a 64-ounce bottle of Mexican lime and agave. That makes 25 to 33 margaritas and we were delivering it to people's homes and I was during the day. I was going through our whole lineup of products and creating all of the fresh Victor versions of classic cocktails that utilize fresh juice and baking those recipes and then selling those as cocktail kits. And so when we came out of the pandemic, I had this bank of recipes and ideas and then we went back into the bars and restaurants and we started back up with our accounts and getting them going again. So now we have a really big bank of all of that, and so that's kind of where we are now. We've got nine different products. We have three different channels between on-premise, off-premise and DTC, and we're growing those all over the country. We're in quite a few number of markets now and looking to grow.
Speaker 1:You talk about some of the, I guess, unexpected difficulties, like obviously the pandemic and all of these sort of exogenic factors that no one could have predicted. But it sounds like A you were kind of prepared in your own way for some of those things by just doing your groundwork in general. But can you talk about, given that you're producing a product that doesn't have alcohol in it, you're saving yourself some regulatory difficulties. But can you talk about issues you might have had with, I don't know, fda or other regulatory things, getting your products sort of certified or licensed, other regulatory things, getting your products sort of certified or licensed, especially given that you're shipping these DTC, just any of those kind of difficulties and strategies that you may have employed to overcome those?
Speaker 2:Well, you know, the reason that nobody has done this before is that refrigerated distribution is very difficult and expensive. You know, I always say Fresh Victor is, as a clean label, natural, better for you product is nothing more than juice, sugar and water in a bottle. It's not magic. The magic comes from, really, our production partner, who is not just an outsourced production but an equity partner, a large equity partner in the business, and they are our second generation family juice company with all of the expertise in sourcing and processing. It's 100% solar powered juice plant. They're just a great partner and they have the long-term contracts to secure the great juices and products that go into making Fresh Victor on a long-term basis, and that gives us the ability to not only provide a completely consistent product on a quality and cost basis, but the expertise and vision for creating new products.
Speaker 2:And so their partnership has been key to overcoming so many of those hurdles, because we didn't have to learn those lessons. They already learned. They brought that to the table and, just like building any business, it's all about having the right partners, the right investors, the smart money, the people that you know are going to open doors and bypass hurdles, being able to not have to learn the lesson that took somebody 10 years to learn saves you 10 years, so that was a major thing, but that's. We are learning our lessons, though, and again, you know, despite the fact that they knew all of those things, the regulatory, all of that we didn't have to worry about it. We are learning the lessons of refrigerated distribution, and that you think about the spirit world and we come from spirits.
Speaker 3:You know, like I said, ken has built tequila companies. I've been in the bar business as a buyer and a bartender. As a buyer my own place for 21 years.
Speaker 2:Plus I have a consulting business where I consult to spirit brands and I have built spirit brands and I continue to build spirit brands.
Speaker 2:I understand all of the channels and all of the challenges and the nice thing about being a non-alcoholic is that you don't have that.
Speaker 2:We don't have to deal with the ABC, we don't have to deal with compliance issues for alcohol and I always say we're a mixer company, we mix with everybody, we dance with everybody. The whole current trend in non-alcoholic drinks. We're partnering with lots of those non-alcoholic spirit brands. We're partnering with champagne and sparkling wine companies and beer companies to create shandies and mimosas and sparkling water for kids' drinks and just simple fr non-elk drinks. You know we have a lot of opportunities based on the fact that we're non-elk and that we are juice based, and so I think that gives us a world of opportunities. But at the same time, the challenge of navigating a refrigerated distribution system for on and off premise is really big, because those systems are disparate and old and clunky and well-established and especially when you're talking about a country as large as this and 50 different states that can operate like 50 different countries, those challenges that you have in alcohol we still have because of this difficult distribution.
Speaker 4:H, you have talked a lot about developing different cocktail menus for your own bar and also playing around with Fresh Victor. I'm curious for the spirit brands listening. Why is developing a cocktail strategy inclusive of mixers like Fresh Victor so important to do early on?
Speaker 2:Well, you know, especially in the markets that are super competitive, in something, as you know, simple as calling it bourbon or tequila or vodka, you know you're going to come up against the bartender who's going to be like, oh, it's just vodka I can put, I can put any vodka in it.
Speaker 2:You know you're going to come up against the bartender who's going to be like, oh, it's just vodka I can put, I can put any vodka in it. So you have to lean on and you feel like you're leaning on your the quality of your production, the quality of your source ingredient, the skill of your distiller, the source of your water, the quality of your yeast, all of these things are. You have to do that in order to focus on the quality of your product. At the end of the day, you also have to move product, and the way you move product in most spirits. Besides, you know when you're getting into the, you know $40, $50 plus bottle range, at least from an on-premise wholesale pricing perspective, you're starting to price yourself out of the cocktail market for most markets. Speaking as a bar owner and a buyer and looking at my poor cost and what I'm going to put on my menu so that I can make a margin in an increasingly difficult squeezed margin market or reality.
Speaker 2:But you have to embrace the idea that cocktails are going to move your product on the on-premise and if brands are built on the on-premise then you have to know what those cocktails are going to move your product on the on-premise. And if brands are built on the on-premise then you have to know what those cocktails are going to be. And again, having built a brand through the early days of this cocktail renaissance, you know those recipes were evolving on the crazy side at a rapid pace and they continue to. I mean, the things that bartenders are doing today amaze me. They have far outpaced me.
Speaker 2:I got a lot of press and a lot of attention in the 2000s for doing things like putting vodka with lemon, blueberry and thyme. I was just taking you know the fact that blueberry, lemon and thyme work in food and I was putting it into a cocktail and I got a lot of press for it. You know this was long before I had heard the word centrifuge or you know, spherification. These things were not part of my vocabulary when I was doing this. Again, I was teaching bartenders literally how to cut limes, squeeze them and make simple syrup and blend them to make a sour and trying to get them to do that process. And now I've reversed with Fresh Victor to telling them you don't have to do that anymore, because now you can get high quality. You can get that high quality in a product.
Speaker 2:But knowing that that lime sour is going to move your tequila in a margarita, which is the biggest selling cocktail in the country, is key. Like you can't just say, oh, we don't want to be, we don't want to do a margarita, because you know everybody does a margarita yeah, everybody does a margarita, because it sells. So put your tequila in a margarita and get it out there. And then there's the argument of oh well, if you, if you change two, three more ingredients, it's no longer a margarita, it's something else. Great, whatever. You can stand on your high horse in your soapbox and claim that your mixology is better than the next guy's mixology, but at the end of the day, the consumer sees a margarita and if you're not building a strategy with your spirit to move it through margaritas, through Moscow mules, through espresso martinis, you're not paying attention and you're losing plot. You really need to be on board with the things that move product and a good cocktail strategy is how you're going to move your product.
Speaker 1:Can you talk about, on the topic of strategy for the spirits, for the brands who are listening? A lot of our listenership will be brands. Can you talk about how they might approach working with a fresh victor or someone who provides the non-alcoholic ingredients? If you talk about how they might approach working with a fresh victor or someone who provides the non-alcoholic ingredients, if you will, that might go with their spirit. What sort of strategy should they be employing? What kind of ways can they leverage what a fresh victor might be offering?
Speaker 2:I always focus on this idea of us being a mixer and the idea of mixing and that we can mix with anything and everything. And again, if you're not employing a proper cocktail strategy and you're focusing on a neat pour or a sip, you know again, if you're in the higher, if you're in that market, you're in a sipping market. That's a different thing. But approaching a company like us, you know we are still a startup, we're a young company and I would argue a good majority of those in the mixer and accoutrement cocktail accoutrement market are, and so we're still very open to all kinds of ideas and the way that I head up a lot of our partnerships with Spirit Brands and we've had some great partnerships with a number of brands, including I think with one of your brands, humano, that we're at WSWA with Stuff like that. You know, if you're going to go out and you're going to make a margarita, let me know. I want to be the Mexican lime and agave in your margarita. You know, if you're going to go out and make a pina colada, do it with our pineapple and ginger root and you'll have an amazingly little twisted ginger, twisted pina colada to promote your rum. That kind of stuff. We've got product, we want to get it out there. We want to get our brand out there. So, partnering on working together to show these cocktails that move and these drinks that people want to drink in the different marketing events that you're doing, whether they're on-premise or off-premise focused, whatever it is, you know, sampling in Total Wine, where we're growing, or a retailer like that. Or showing up at a tasting table at Aspen Food and Wine, or presenting at a big buyer conference like in a couple of weeks we'll be at the Vibe Conference in San Diego with all of the big national account beverage buyers. I'm open to those partnerships all the time, and so that's the thing is like you can, if you're squeezing all your own limes and making your own simple or your and then it gets to other products of ours like cactus, pear and pomegranate Nobody wants to juice a prickly pear, nobody wants to juice pomegranate aerials. We've done it for you and we've got it in a great bottle, so you can do something that's even a little bit different to provide that prickly pear margarita, which is really big across the Southwest and growing in other areas, or mix it with your mezcal or whatever it is. So we're open for that, and I would say most others are as well.
Speaker 2:And anytime you see me on a podcast making drinks or on a show, I'm always bringing in other partner ingredients because we're just part of the formula. So we have bitters partners that I work with and I like to promote their different bitters or syrup partners. Because if I take, like you know, when Ken and I designed the lemon sour, for example, I designed that specifically to be a little bit more sour than the rest of our mixers, because it's just lemon sour, it doesn't have that tertiary flavor complexity to go down a different avenue. Right, you're going to use it for a whiskey sour or a Collins, but I want it to be able to absorb a little more syrup or liqueur. That's going to add some flavor complexity. And then we can add a dash of bitters, we can switch it up with some different textural elements, and so as we present the drinks that it's possible to make with Fresh Victor, we have to have these other partners to make the drink complete.
Speaker 2:It's the sum of its parts. So we're open to all kinds of partnerships like that and I think that really not enough spirit companies realize that they're not on their own and that they can do this and you look at like it's interesting. You know I'm sure you follow lots of marketing stuff, like I do, outside of just the beverage industry. Look at these cross partnerships that are happening and we've done them, we do. We've done partnerships with cooler companies, we've done partnerships with all kinds of like other products that are not related directly to the cocktail itself but to the lifestyle and the image, and so partnering amongst product companies I think is a great way to amplify exponentially your exposure and get brought into the view of new buyers and new audiences.
Speaker 4:I want to talk about these juices more specifically and the flavors a little bit. I've tried Fresh Victor myself great products. How did you go about like picking what juices to do and what different like flavors? Like, did you start with a cocktail you wanted to make and think this is what I need to put in this, or was it kind of the other way around, like, oh, this sounds like it would be a really good juice and a mixture together? What can I make out of this?
Speaker 2:Well, it all started with the Mexican lime and agave.
Speaker 2:Like I said, ken was building tequila, so margaritas, he was selling margaritas and he found this solution as he was making drinks for guests at his home as well as at events. We were making lime juice and making agave syrup and blending it all and he was doing that himself and people kept saying you know, that's great, but I had to wait five, 10 minutes for that drink and so and he was doing it out of Texas and, you know, focused in the Southwest. So a lot of Southwest flavors that's where the cactus pear comes from, is big in that region and the jalapeno and lime, again, perfect for spicy anything. So those kinds of things that line up with the Southwest flavors were kind of the initial part of it. But then, when you look at the set of nine different flavor profiles that we have now, there's something for just about every common cocktail style, right Like our latest two that were introduced a couple years ago are the grapefruit and sea salt and the strawberry and lemon, and that brought us from seven to nine, and that filled the gap.
Speaker 2:There was a need we had. We were hearing from our customers. So, like a lot of companies, you develop products based on customer demand and we were hearing from our customers that they needed a strawberry product and they needed a strawberry product that was versatile in order to do margaritas, but they also needed to do strawberry lemonades for kids, and so we went with strawberry lemon instead of strawberry lime. It still makes a great margarita, but you can make a great lemonade out of it. You can do a lot with it.
Speaker 2:The grapefruit and sea salt was all about the Paloma, the rising popularity of the Paloma, and again, ken and I dialed in that level of sea salt that's in there. I think is perfect and it wasn't accidental, it was purposeful and it took us a while to get exactly where he and I agreed that this is perfect and it's. You know. That mixer went on to become the mixer of the year at the San Francisco World Spirits Competition in 2022. Eight of our nine products have double goals in San Francisco and the other's got a goal. So you know, the people agree, the judges agree, and that's the applicability. Like I said, the pineapple has its applicability to things like a pina colada or a painkiller, but the ginger gives it a little bit of a unique twist and so we can find some differentiation between our products. So we're not selling commodity juice and we're going up against that lower quality level that's generally available. We're not only amplifying our quality level but we're also amplified in the diversity of flavor profiles that we can provide and the drinks that those can make.
Speaker 4:What I also think is really cool is you have the recipes on the bottles, if I'm correct. So it says the cocktail and exactly what you need to put in to make that cocktail. But what I didn't know until recently is, if you go on the website, there is even more cocktails to choose from, which is really interesting. So for our listeners, you have to be sure to check it out. I hope to help that out Again.
Speaker 2:As a startup and evolving company, our website is continually evolving. Our most recent evolution was that you can now buy our 64-ounce package on the website, direct to your door. So people are getting tired of buying too many 16-ounce packages for their big party, so now you can get 64 ounces at once. I have infinitely more recipes than are available on the website, but we're continually trying to update the website and build that out.
Speaker 1:And we'll put links in the show notes for people to check out the website, and recipes are right there, and it looks like right now you've got non-alcoholic recipes featured, so that'll be the first thing that you see, and then you can scroll down and obviously see everything else.
Speaker 2:Yep, and that will swap out soon with spring cocktails.
Speaker 4:Well, you were just mentioning how, as you guys are growing, the website's having more additions and I'm sure there's more to come in the future as well. But I'm curious the next five years for Fresh Victor what do those look like and what are the goals?
Speaker 2:Well, right now, on-premise sales is the majority of our business and, like I said earlier, it's where we can move high volume and so we continue to press forward with that, securing contracts with smaller regional chains that are growing. Partners like Chicken and Pickle and Walk-Ons are two stellar examples of very successful fast-growing businesses that have really embraced the value proposition of Fresh Victor and how it can satisfy their P&L and operational needs as well as provide great product and great drinks to their guests. So we're looking to grow with those kinds of partners from a distribution perspective because we can amplify volume quickly. But the nice thing is also, as we get new partners we get pulled into new markets and so within I would say in five years, we would expect to be in all 48, lower 48 states. We've got some interest in the Caribbean. That gets into some complexity of shipping and export and freezing and pallets and it's a little bit of a different thing to go beyond our shores but it's possible and it's in the works, so I would hope to be there.
Speaker 2:We're also on the retail side. We're expanding with different brands and chains and growing in a smart way to make sure that we can. We have no capacity issues because our production partner is so, so great. But you know, growth is best done in a smart way so that you don't overstep your bounds and over-promise and under-deliver if we want to avoid that. But again, in five years' time, at the pace that we're going, I would expect that we've got some major national retail accounts that are secured and active in all units. Some of those are happening now. Some of them are on the table and there are others that are in our viewfinder. And then our third channel, on DTC growth that continues to grow. That's really a brand builder. All the online marketing and social media and stuff that builds the public awareness of our brand tends to point to the website, which then points to DTC. But we really do want to get people into the stores and buying from their local stores so we can help build that channel.
Speaker 2:But, if we're not in a store near you, there's a where to buy channel. Click on our website that shows you where those stores are and those are ever expanding and I would expect that within five years all three of those channels are pumping and we're able to help consumers make great drinks with ease and businesses deliver profits and satisfied customers.
Speaker 1:For our fun final question that we always like to ask what is your favorite alcoholic beverage or adult beverage?
Speaker 2:let's say I am like everyone else.
Speaker 2:I am enthralled with the margarita as much as I own a whiskey bar and I love my whiskey, when it comes to making drinks I tend to mix with tequila or mezcal, exploring with more rica sotol bacanora. But the early days of my bar I was like I said, I was really into tequila and I was spending a lot of time in Mexico. I was touring I've probably been to 25, 30 distilleries in Mexico and really in those early days of going to El Tesoro and hanging out with people like you know, helping Guillermo Salsa launch Portaleza when it was still Los Abuelos, you know. So I love my.
Speaker 2:The concept of additive free blanco or additive free tequila is so hot right now, but it really for those in the know. That's what it's always been about, just like Fresh Victor is all about clean ingredients and a clean label and honesty in what we produce. That's what's driving this additive-free tequila focus and attention. So that's my go-to is all nine Fresh Victors go with a good Blanco and I rotate in between those and I play with my. I have a fairly extensive home lab of ingredients. I'm constantly tweaking things to come up with new recipes for Fresh Victor and using Fresh Victor and all of those margarita variations at home to the point where and my wife has been along for the ride since I was squeezing everything myself always says are you ever going to squeeze juice again? I'm like why do I need to? I've got a refrigerator full of Fresh Victor. This is, you know, I'm living the dream and I like to say drinking the Fresh Victor, not the Kool-Aid. I'm drinking the Fresh Victor.
Speaker 1:Well, a margarita, one way or another, seems to be the answer, and that's a good answer there. I want to thank you so much for your time. Our guest has been H Ehrman of Fresh Victor. For folks, we will put links in the show notes that you can check out so, again, you can see those recipes and you could even order some yourself directly from the website, or you could find out where you can go and maybe sit by in a bar and have it right away. So, h Ehrman, thank you so much for stopping by. We appreciate it.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:This has been great and thank you, listeners, for joining us on the MHW Mark podcast and thanks again to Cassidy Poe for joining me in hosting. Thanks, Jim. This podcast is produced by me, Jimmy Moreland, with booking and planning support by Cassidy Poe and Bridget McCabe. It's presented by MHW. Find out more at mhwltvcom or connect with MHW on LinkedIn. Lend us a hand by subscribing, rating and reviewing this podcast wherever you listen. We'll be back in your feed in two weeks. We'll see you then, Cheers.