The MHW Mark Podcast
Welcome to the MHW podcast, bringing you conversations with experts and leaders in the alcoholic beverage industry. Covering topics ranging from selling alcohol online, creating a new brand from scratch, and what you need to know when you start doing business internationally. Hosted by Jimmy Moreland and a rotating cast of cohosts from the folks at MHW.
The MHW Mark Podcast
The Power of Connectivity and “So What?” - with Taylor Foxman
Let’s talk networking. Whether it’s online or in person; informal or with a professional trade networking group. Host Jimmy Moreland and MHW's Brigid McCabe chat with The Industry Collective Founder Taylor Foxman to get her thoughts on developing and leveraging connections in bev alc and other businesses, and much more.
Find out more about The Industry Collective | Website
More info about MHW at https://www.mhwltd.com/
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Welcome to the MHW Mark podcast, where we take deep dives into various aspects of the alcohol industry. My name is Jimmy Moreland. Mhw is a US and EU beverage alcohol importer, distributor and service provider. Joining me once again it seems like this is a regular thing now Bridget McCabe, welcome, welcome.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, happy to be back. Are we just co-hosts now? It feels like you're not a regular thing now. Bridget McCabe, welcome, welcome. Thank you so much, happy to be back.
Speaker 1:Are we just co-hosts? Now it feels like you're not a guest host anymore.
Speaker 2:I think you, me and Cassidy might be co-hosts. The beautiful trio.
Speaker 1:Well, we're going to keep the seat warm for you. Well, it's good to have you on here. We've got some cool things going on. We've got some cool things coming up on the calendar, some big events you want to talk about that.
Speaker 2:Absolutely so. We are approaching Bar Convent Berlin. That begins October 6th and this is the largest international trade show for spirit brands, bartenders really a lot of the on-premise trade that you're looking to touch. If you are seeking export into the EU or vice versa, if you're available in the EU and looking to join the US, this is a really great time to get together. So I would recommend any listeners get in touch with MHW at marketing at mhwltdcom and we can get something on the books for us.
Speaker 1:Now we've had a bunch of good episodes that sort of touch on some of the topics that we talk about today with our us. Now we've had a bunch of good episodes that sort of touch on some of the topics that we talk about today with our guest. Specifically, we talk a little bit about the different kinds of communications that can go out, and we've had guests in the past who specifically focused on trade marketing, for example. If you go back to our episode with Sid Patel, for example, and more recently we had from Flaviar, we had Josh Jacobs on the podcast just a few episodes ago, and so we've sort of had this nice budding conversation that sort of bleeds the line between communications that might go out to your consumers versus trade, versus investors, and we really dive deep into that conversation today. Do you want to give us a little mini preview of our guests' background and your relationship with them?
Speaker 2:Taylor Foxman is one of the most well-connected, impressive.
Speaker 2:I don't even want to call her a marketing professional because she has expanded beyond that in so many ways.
Speaker 2:I mean, she's a true reflection of the innovation that is happening right now in the beverage alcohol space and she's what I call a connector.
Speaker 2:So you know you'll hear about it a little bit later in the episode but really making those genuine, authentic connections with not only your consumers but also others in the space, so that we can lift each other up and find opportunities to whether it's a retailer or whether it's logistics support, it might be investment counsel, whatever that area that a brand is looking for within her collective and her client base. There is no doubt another brand that has experienced something, that has expertise in that area, that would love to glean that expertise from the brand that's inquiring on their areas. So it's really, I think, a true look into how we can't do any of this in a silo. We need to truly be connected with everyone around us and understand not just what the industry is doing and where it's headed, but also how can we put a positive thumbprint on it, how can we give a helping hand to people around us, and I think Taylor is really embodiment of that.
Speaker 1:And I feel like this episode is a really good. You know we talk about in any business context. You talk about ROI a lot, your return on investment and I think this episode has a good ROA, a good return on attention if that's a cheesy enough way to bring it around because just the value of the conversation with Taylor here really is excellent. So without further ado, let's go ahead and jump into it and get to work here. Our guest today has spent the last decade and more in communications and PR in the beverage alcohol industry. She is the founder of the Industry Collective and was recently awarded 40 Under 40 for her industry and brand innovator of the year's 40 Under 40. Welcome to the show, taylor Foxman.
Speaker 3:Thank you, guys for having me. I'm excited to be here.
Speaker 1:It's very good to have you here. Can you tell us a little bit more about yourself, about the journey that you took to arrive at founding the Industry Collective and, I guess, what brought you to our podcast today?
Speaker 3:The lovely Bridget brought me the podcast and I've been listening to it for a while. So thank you for the opportunity in advance, big fan of what you guys are doing, so very excited to be here. So yeah, my background is quite interesting. I still, I guess, day-to-day do a lot of comms for these CEOs, but that is my background. I started my career working doing PR in college for Stoli. I always say in interviews that I got paid in vodka, but I did and postponed a master's at University of Southern California to start working in New York a little over 15 years ago.
Speaker 3:And humble beginnings here. I was an assistant account executive at a PR agency packing boxes of whiskey to send to writers. I was not allowed to write to the writers, just pack the whiskey. And I've been really fortunate. No-transcript CEOs in particular, and the founders. Every company needs a talking head, is what we call it. And so I started working for the likes of Jim Cook of Boston Beer CEO and President Patron Jägermeister Campari Beyond Meat Post Cereal, positioning these people as the top thought leaders in what they do. So you know, helping write an op-ed for the New York Times for Jim Cook on the state of the beer industry. I remember Clay Risen, who writes for Fortune and New York Times, did this huge feature story about the future of bourbon right, and there was a bottle of bourbon that was overflowing on the cover of the magazine and I wrote him and said next year it'll be tequila and I'll fly you out and you'll meet Patron, you'll meet Cosmigos, any of these brands and last year after was a trending tequila and that feature came out. And so that was what I did in some for over a decade.
Speaker 3:But when I got to work for these incredible executives I was able to learn. I raised my hand. I'm like I want to learn about talent and distribution and sales, and so I did. And I wouldn't say that I'm still, to date, great at any of those things, but I learned enough to be pretty deadly. And when you work for people at that level, you then meet people at that level. At that level you then meet people at that level. So I liaised with very high profile people from day one and my whole life kind of went into overdrive.
Speaker 3:About six years ago when Patron got bought by Bacardi. The executive team at Patron pulled me into cannabis. I started working for Bo Wrigley of Wrigley Gum and became the first vice president of the, at the time, largest privately owned cannabis company in the US called Parallel, and when I was working for Parallel, this business fell in my lap. So I got approached by venture capital firms and banks and family offices that invested in or got hit up by founders in mainly at that time, beverage and cannabis, and they said, look, you know, can you help these people out? And I started advising five founders and CEOs about five and a half, almost six years ago, and I'm still with all of them. A few have already been acquired by Constellation and AB, another bigger e-com platform, and I'm still with them. And then the other two are Beatbox Beverage, and we're now at 300 million in revenue this year, and Shaquille O'Neal is one of our biggest investors and formulators. And Grazi, which is a business I've been with from day one, and we were at $10,000 a month direct to consumer five years ago. We are now at 30 million in revenue, which is just absolutely crazy and above.
Speaker 3:So that was my background and then about two and a half years ago, I decided to make this full time and just through referral and inbound, the business went from me advising five founders to 85 all over the world precede, through post IPO food Bev cannabis, a little bit of broader CPG. So how it works is on the left side, you have almost 100 founders, most of which are diverse, led or underrepresented. So women owned, black owned, veteran owned businesses across food of cannabis early stage through Poland Spring. And then you have me in the middle as a global sheep herder of this group. I'm not a firm, I'm not a vendor, I'm just fell into something pretty incredible. And then on the right side, you have everyone who's built me a very, very big business. You have talent agencies and banks and debt providers and journalists and people like you all that connect me to incredible founders and all day long I'm connecting the dots between these two massive ecosystems.
Speaker 2:That's incredible. I find you to be very inspirational, taylor. You're someone that I certainly look to for you know, counsel and to see what you're doing in the industry. Thank you very much. You call yourself a sheepherder, but I think what I call you is a true connector. You make really strategic referrals and bring people together in a way that enables efficiencies on both sides, enables the true work to happen. How do you account for that intangible word of mouth factor that's hard to measure in marketing but that we all know really is what drives the impact in our industry at the end of the day?
Speaker 3:Well, my whole business has been, just as a side note, word of mouth. I've never announced the company. I just developed a deck recently for one of the bigger retailers, so I think a lot of I'll just speak about what I'm doing for a minute and then I'll think about kind of how that pertains to brands. But everyone has been graciously introduced to me. I don't ask for intros, which is crazy to think about. I work actively for almost 100 people, but that speaks to the power of word of mouth right, I believe, to your point.
Speaker 3:A big strength of mine is my ability to, like you said, put the pieces together and connect the right people. But I also think that there's something to be said for just doing good work and putting your head down. And I think word of mouth as it pertains to brands is really important because, at the end of the day, I think consumers right now are really looking for transparency and I don't think in most of the companies that I advise aren't at the point where they can really spend a lot of money on out of home marketing or traditional marketing efforts per se. So a lot of it really comes down to developing a very loyal base of brand followers that you know believe in what you're doing and can get out there and be beacons for your brand. I mean, that is like there is nothing better than to have the brand, through word of mouth, find success, but have that be through people that are purchasing and repurchasing your product. I can't think of anyone better to create that word of mouth morality.
Speaker 2:And when you think about your approach to not just marketing, but it could be anything investor relations, it could be, you know, sort of that early stage pitch preparation. What is your approach to consulting with and assisting brands? How do you get started with them?
Speaker 3:I mean, most of the business now has an element where I help them with capital raise stuff right or being introduced to strategic corporate M&A contacts to be bought, to be partially bought. So, given that I'm not an investment banker, I am involved. I sit on the board or I'm a board member of seven venture capital firms that touch our space. So beverage, cpg, food and beverage, all that I have pretty good understanding generally of like what they're looking for right. I don't have that typical background. I think, at the end of the day, like, the reason my business has been able to become as successful organically as it has is I don't have an MO. I've never had an MO with anything, with doing a podcast right now, with getting on a phone call with you know an early stage founder, any of this stuff, and I think that really resonates. And I think, when it comes to people that are looking for capital, my biggest, you know, suggestion is to start talking to people before you need money. There are so many people I'm sure you guys liaise every day with. Probably over half of the brands that you work with are raising money right now. You may not know it, and so you have a limited pool of funds and an unlimited pool of people that need those funds, and so, as a result of that, I always say, like, don't spend as much time on your deck. I wrote a story for Rolling Stone about stop working on your deck and get on LinkedIn and tell your story.
Speaker 3:I think really understanding what the other side wants is really important as it pertains to anything but with fundraising, and so I prep these people less on. You know, I hired somebody named Alex, who's fantastic, who actually comes from venture. He came from a family office and middle market stuff. He's the specialist in what should be in a deck. But really, where I come in is thinking about who's on the other side. So you're talking to someone that has a limited pool of funds that they need to allocate out to a certain amount of brands, like what is different.
Speaker 3:I say, like what's your? So what? And did you prep? Like, did you look into these people? Did you look into the funds? You know what is unique about what we're doing. How does it fit into what they've invested in? And so really my role is to position these people to just look really smart and think about it from the perspective of the investor. But also, how did they fit into a broader thesis that they may have to really just not focus on them? Everyone starts everything me, me, me, me, me and it's like let them talk and you could create a much more strategic approach as to how you could get some money from them, how they could provide some capital, if you just listen and have no MO.
Speaker 1:You brought it up. It makes me want to ask how early is too early for a brand to consider approaching you or your firm or someone who provides similar services. Is there a point where it's like, hey, you need to have X amount of monthly revenue or cases shipped. Or where's the bar? There's no bar.
Speaker 3:I mean, I have an open inbox with everyone in the industry. I think, as most people know, you can email me at any time. I will email you back as open inbox with everyone in the industry. I think, as most people know, you can email me at any time. I will email you back as soon as I can Try to get on the phone with you.
Speaker 3:In terms of where the businesses need to be, it's not as much me, if I can be honest. That's a great question. It's are you too early for the people on the right Right? Are you too early for that equation? The people on the right side of that ecosystem that we shared are investors and they're writers and they're talent agencies and they're distributors and they're people that you need in your business. But are you at the point as to which you're there or area of expertise, and you're not at the point where you're going to start those conversations? But the minute that you have liquid, the minute that you have some money you don't have to have money, by the way, to work with us, but I just mean you have some does that make sense? Like some element of it? Like you have distribution, you have product, you have, yeah, you have a vision and I think honestly, the earlier the business, the more they need help, because there are so many, as you guys know, in different capacities there's so many pitfalls.
Speaker 3:There are so many pitfalls whether it's, you know, bringing in the wrong executive team, whether it's bring on the wrong distributor, whether it's taking money from someone who you think sucks but you just need money. So it's a double-edged sword, right Like I work off a monthly retainer. That's been my model from day one. I don't have different structures with different people, so you do have to have a little bit of money, not a lot. I don't charge as much as I'm told I should, but you didn't have some money to work with me, so that's also like a prerequisite. It's just that's how the business works.
Speaker 3:But I think, even me aside, I think anyone who you could bring on right Like it doesn't matter, it doesn't have to be me, it could be a venture studio or an incubation lab or something, or a different group that does some of this. You have to be at the point where you can leverage what they're doing. It doesn't make sense to bring on the best shared sales service If you don't have product yet that you can give them and put in their hands. It doesn't make sense to bring me on, if you're looking to raise money, if you don't have you know any, even liquid, that these people can try. You know you have to have something. So I think, whether it's me or anyone else that provides an expertise, I think you need to be at the point of the business where you can use those unlocks. Otherwise I think it's a little bit of a waste.
Speaker 1:We've had on this podcast some writers and some people involved in, for example, trade marketing specifically, and you've mentioned the kind of like investor relations and things like that.
Speaker 1:And so all the different kinds of communications that can happen in this space, communications aimed at investors, at consumers, at trade. How do all of those pieces fit together? And does what you do, does it ever blur the lines? Is there a way that you can sort of scattershot and have one piece of communication sort of do the job for all three? Or do you need tailored approaches for every single?
Speaker 3:tailored you do need it. That was good on a Monday. I like that. You need some.
Speaker 2:Fox men tailored. Yes, that was good on a Monday. I like that.
Speaker 3:You need some Fox men. Yeah, I love the question. So I do this exercise with everyone, even like people, like we've done it for discus and like some of the associations as well. I call it the so what? Workshop. So everyone has their brand. Here's lemon Perfect. I don't work with Yanni, but love Yanni and actually absolutely love the brand. So I'm looking at Lemon Perfect. Right, so Lemon Perfect can say, all right, I'm trying to target this is a great question Like I'm trying to target a trade writer like Bethnet or someone that writes about what they're doing. I'm trying to target an investor. I'm trying to target a distributor who can put me on their truck, right In their bag.
Speaker 3:The biggest issue is that most brands, regardless of the size, they just literally do to your point one communication or one pitch for all of them, it's the same. I have the best water because it's original, organic, zero sugar, no artificial flavor. I'm just reading the half a squeeze organic. Okay, great, that makes sense for maybe the writer right, right, but like, where is the business Like? Is it growing month after month? Is it growing year after year? How are you doing revenue? Wise? That's what an investor needs to see. Distributor needs to know why. By selling your product, are you going to be making money? They're going to be making money.
Speaker 3:So the point of the matter is, is that I do this workshop with everyone, which really just like very much to your point indicates that you need to have slightly nuanced messaging. And so what verbiage for each of those audiences? It doesn't have to be totally different and, from a consumer perspective, you should have one solid ass, one liner. But I do think, at the end of the day, that you definitely do need slightly nuanced messaging for these different people. So everyone that needs help with fundraising, for example, with raising money.
Speaker 3:Years ago, I got feedback from investors that they're not reading decks as much as they used to. So I said, well, look, I'm a very visual thinker and failed out of math and a lot of other subjects that are more specific to the left brain. So I love what, if I like, created, like you know, for all these people that are raising money, like these kind of like one pagers, like infographics, where you know they'll put in there how much they're raising, what they want to do with the money, who's on the team milestones to date. You can look at the email, see if you like the opportunity and either say, yeah, you want to talk to them or not, and they love that, and I'm not the first person ever created a one pager, but for what we're doing it kind of became a little bit of like a best practice and I know a lot of people that have used this that are not part of the group and I get forward at it and I think it's great. So so we just create these things.
Speaker 3:But to point again, like we create slightly nuanced versions now for all different stakeholders. So it started as something that we did just for investors and then, as more founders came on board almost 100 of them they needed help with reaching out to distributors and talent agencies and writers and all this stuff. I said, well, you can't put the information that you have in here for investors as you would for a talent agency or for a journalist. So we took that idea and now everyone in the group that works with all these different stakeholders, we have these one-pagers that are now very much specific to each of the different audiences.
Speaker 2:I love that. That's such sophisticated feedback and I think you know, as we're seeing the landscape shift where, you know, maybe 10, 15 years ago it was a handful of investors, now we're seeing more and more investment companies really get involved in the space and some might have come over from CPG or might be completely new. I've seen even our ownership at MHW. A lot of what they specialize in is like environmentalism, sustainability, chemical engineering, so we're a unique fit in their portfolio. So I think that makes a lot of sense because you need to be able to get them right away. Yeah, so one thing I wanted to ask you was so how many clients you're up to now? You said you're up to 85 plus.
Speaker 3:It's all been inbound and I've never announced the business to date. I don't know how you I thank you for that. I just said, like look at the end of the day, I try really to be as helpful as I can to everyone. So once you're in this, it's it's really hard to like understand if you're not like in it as a founder or brand or whatever. But like, once you're in this ecosystem, it's, it's so much. It's become a lot bigger than me, if I could be honest, because I thought that the people on the left side I work with like you know multiple people that have you know female led canned wine brand, like you can imagine how many hydration drinks and cannabis companies Like I thought that not necessarily that they would be competitive with each other but that they wouldn't help each other out Right, like hey, you do your thing, I do my thing, we kind of all agree we're in this together in this group.
Speaker 3:But but what I've been most impressed by Bridget is like less about me and 85 clients and, by the way, I've never called them clients Like I say welcome to the family and they are part of my, they're part of something much bigger, so they're a partner of the business that they've never been a client. So anyway, it's just to go back for a minute. What I found to be most impressive is not the amount of people, or I mean that's cool and that's amazing. I'd love to take on more if I can but is what they've been able to do together. So if you think about this whole ecosystem as like a David and Goliath right, like two of these brands, like Mary's Moonshine, like is Mary alone going to be able to rock the entire alcohol industry? Or Bob's hydration drink right With Pepsi, no, no. But I think what they've realized is like they're in it together now and I unintentionally created a vehicle for that.
Speaker 3:So when people need, I'll give you an example. So if someone is trying to get into Kroger, I may know someone at Kroger had a beverage, but again, I'm not in the trenches, guys, you know what I mean Like I'm not stacking cans on shelf. So what I do is I automatically think of, okay, who in the group, regardless if they're in cannabis, if they're a beverage company, if they're even food brands we work with beauty brands now it doesn't matter who owns Kroger, like who's the best practice in this group that can get on the phone and say this is what you need to do, and I will tell you, for six years there's not one person in this group. Whether it's a $300 million business or a $30,000 business a year, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 3:They drop what they're doing and they help each other out, and I think that is something that I'm most proud of, because, at the end of the day, I'm not it Like I have the proud of, because, at the end of the day, I'm not it Like I have the expertise, I have the network, but I don't know everyone and I don't have every answer and I don't know everything. So the fact that these people are helping each other make the right decisions, create distribution networks together, invest in each other's companies, create products together, like that, to me, is so much cooler than anything else, because now they realize the power of a collective unit to move the industry forward, and that in of itself, I think, is pretty cool.
Speaker 2:That's wonderful and that ties into the collective. When you think of, you know what is the name behind it. I mean, it really is a collective of brands.
Speaker 3:Well, that was accidental. I'll tell you that that was totally accidental. When I originally got reached out to by Speakeasy, which is now part of Flaviar, and I started talking to Beatbox and everyone Justin, brad and Amy and all of them I thought that these people are to roost. I thought that they would want bartenders and sommeliers and people like you two, and so I commissioned 50 people to be part of the collective and the collective were experts. So the Pam Wisnitzers of the world and I mean just like everyone, I mean we had every. We had all the top Jeffrey Lindenbooth and Southern Teague from Memorial Margo, and we had Aaron Goldfarb and writers and all these people, and they all were willing to sign on the dotted line, just be involved in this to help these brands.
Speaker 3:And what ended up happening was just that the brands needed more immediate help raising money, getting distribution, you know, things that were a little bit more mission critical. I'm not saying that what they do isn't mission critical, but you know what I mean. Like, in order to work with the likes of these people, they really needed very basic, fundamental help, and I guess I knew enough to be helpful to them to do that. So we didn't really end up using the experts the way that I thought, but then the collective took on to your point and totally different meaning. It now is this aggregate of thousands of diverse led brands all over the world that you know are evolving and helping to kind of create the next gen of brands in the space.
Speaker 2:I have to ask because I think you very much are an operator as well, which I think is rare to see a marketing and sort of operations mind come together. Have you ever had any interest in starting your own brand?
Speaker 3:Not one day. I could never. I hear all the guys and gals and they're always like oh my God, sorry, I'm a few minutes late. I was actually hauling a big truck up a mountain and then someone else was like I can't find the pallets. Where are the pallets? I'm in Mexico and I'm just like every day I think to myself how much I am not equipped to launch a brand, but I also don't think like I think you have to be at this point.
Speaker 3:I give just a general bit of feedback about starting a brand. Everyone always says I'm relentless. Like you have to be unwaveringly relentless and in love with this. You cannot be in, let's just stick to beverage. For right now you cannot be in beverage or beverage alcohol, to be even more specific, and not be 100,000% in, because you are all of a sudden you go from whatever it is you were doing. You are a consultant, you are an accountant, you are an advisor, you work in the medical field, you were a bartender, you're in. I mean, you're a hundred percent in, because there's no middle anymore. There's no like.
Speaker 3:You watch Shark Tank and I watch Shark Tank every day and we have a lot of people in the group, but you know, like they all say like, oh, do you have another job? And they're always like oh, that you know, write them off if they have two jobs usually. But at the end of the day, every facet of starting a CPG brand at this point is unbelievably hard. It's not just beverage, it's not just alcohol, it's not just food. It's now I'm realizing it's all across the space. Now I'm realizing it's all across this space. And so if you're not going to be the brand that stays up one extra hour, that does one extra thing, that posts one more thing on LinkedIn, that finds one more person who can invest in the business, there's someone else who's going to do it Completely. There's someone else. So it's just, the stakes are too high, we're like, unless you have just the strongest conviction for what you're doing and can throw yourself fully into the space, Like to me, I just I wouldn't, I wouldn't recommend it Absolutely.
Speaker 2:And it's a long game, you know you're. You're not going to be profitable for at least the first five years, typically Right. So it's like you know you have to, you have to love it. It has to be your baby.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think it's one of those things where you can imagine what I hear and what gets put in front of me, and I think the biggest thing, though, is that knowing when to stop.
Speaker 3:Not that many people are good at that, if at all, and I think there is a beauty in honestly realizing to your point, bridget, like this is at the end of the day, we're not, as an industry, curing cancer, and so I think it's really important to I'll be very honest, like I've seen some really dire things over the years and this isn't like beverage related, this is like human, like you know what I mean Like these are just like people that have done things to keep businesses afloat, and I think I just would love to see more people ultimately throw in the towel at times, because it is brutal and you don't see the returns right away very often, and I understand that you think you have the best vodka that's ever been created or the best beverage in the world, but, but you know, it is not only business, it's your livelihood, and I think sometimes I think that I've seen people just push it too far. One maybe they should have just maybe ended it a little bit sooner than they did.
Speaker 1:So listeners, you heard it here. Taylor Foxman says not starting a brand does sound a little bit like when you ask a politician if they're running for president. So in a couple of years, when you are starting a brand, we'll have you back on the podcast to promote that. How about that?
Speaker 3:All right, in a couple of years when you are starting a brand, we'll have you back on the podcast to promote that. How about that? All right, Hold me to that.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's fine, I get it. I do want to talk a little bit more broadly, sort of industry-wise. You did mention sort of having a little bit of foresight're going to see in the next couple of years here. So I think, in terms of the alcohol industry, I think I talk about it a lot. I don't think it's an all or nothing game.
Speaker 3:I know I'm not going to sit here and say you're just going to be drinking mocktails and water, moving forward, right, I think there will always be things that stress people out and moments in times that are celebratory and, as a result of that, the space is here to stay Right. So, first and foremost, like that doom and gloom, I just I want to just put it out there, just from my own perspective, to say at this point I think that is clickbait. But what's not clickbait are the numbers and the stats right, if people drinking less and drinking better. So I think you take the better for you beverage phrasing out of it cause it just needs to die, like the word pivot. But I think, at the end of the day, I do think a trend that we will continue to see is, you know, premiumizing what's out there and continuing to focus on better products. Right, less crap. But then, on the better for you side of things, I think that people are drinking less but they're drinking better. So it could be what does that mean? That could mean consolidation of portfolios where you don't have as many products but the ones that you have are better, I think, whether it's low calorie, whether it's low ABV. I think, whether it's NA, whether it's just better products, I think that's where we're going right, Like I think we were at this point where everything was like either you drink or you don't drink, and it's like or you're a health person or you're not a healthy person. It's like I don't feel like that's realistic and I don't see that happening at all and you see it in the numbers. So I think some trends are definitely the NA space is here.
Speaker 3:I don't think that everyone is going to be drinking fake tequila, but I think that again, there's going to be those subcategories, Like if you like an athletic for beer, maybe liars for spirits we're figuring out on the wine side and then functional beverages. So I think that's here to stay, but not all of the brands. I love the low ABV space, whether it's just that you have a spirit and you dilute it, you know. Or a spritz which is just like a naturally lower ABV product, leaning into vermouth, leaning into low ABV products, like I work for a company called quarter proof. We literally have quarter of the proof of the alcohol and then, in terms of like categories within spirits and stuff, that that part's gonna be really hard to figure out right like, because you know consumption is down overall but people are still drinking. So I think it will be an interesting kind of quarter or two to see. Is it the same? You know subcategories that keep continuing to do well right, like brown spirits and agave, I don't know. But the one spirit trend that I have seen is high ABV. I know that's kind of contradictory to what I'm saying, but people, if they're drinking and they're drinking better and they're drinking it seems like higher ABV. So I love that kind of leaning into high ABV, full flavor, full-ish ABV, because I think that kind of relates to what's happening on the traditional beverage side with, like, using cane sugar and what is it? Coca-cola and stuff like that. So I have seen that trend and then I've seen the better free trend.
Speaker 3:And then, lastly, is cannabis. It's my favorite topic to talk about. You know there, every hour of every day in cannabis is a challenge and a new set of unknowns. So I'll say that. But if you talk about an industry, forget Ozempic. If you talk about a beverage industry that is directly competing with alcohol, it's neck and neck to me is cannabis. Right now. You know you have brands that are pacing way faster than any emerging brand in alcohol and you can sell direct to consumer, to their door. You don't need to have an ID. They're now selling it to Total Wine. They have interesting product formats like sachets which you can stick into a drink, bottles that look like Patron cans gummies. I see them being just a very strong competitor to the alcohol space right now.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. And that that segues me kind of into my next question, which is do you feel like there's large generational gaps between, say, like boomer drinkers, Gen Z drinkers? So kind of setting the baseline is there or isn't there? Cause I've I've heard it a little bit both ways. So I'm interested to hear your thoughts. And then, if you do think there is a gap there, how do you propose that brands bridge those generational gaps? Because we're seeing brands can't really afford anymore to be so hyper specific and targeted in who their demographic is.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, I think it's hard to your point to reach everyone, but then it's also really like, like you said, it's also not the best idea necessarily to just target one demo. I do think, though, that you need to look into who's actually buying your product. I think a lot of times, brands market because they think they need to market to everyone. It's not necessary, right? So, like, obviously, most brands don't have the budget to market that much. In general, to be honest, even $100 million businesses I work for, plus, they're very cognizant of spend. So how I like to look at this is like is there a gap? I think so, just to go back to your question, around that I do think that the younger generation is and the research is there they're notably drinking less. Whether they have less money which is part of the discussion to spend on this like discretionary income. Whether they have less money which is part of the discussion to spend on this like discretionary income, whether they just don't want to drink as much anymore. Whatever, it is like there is a gap, right, but in every age demo people are still drinking. So I think that that, just to answer the question, there's a gap, a notable gap, but in every age demo. People are still going to bars, they are still drinking, they are still purchasing. There's not a demographic of people that have fully stopped drinking at all. But I think, in terms of like where to spend the money and the time, like I think a lot of people, a lot of brands like first decide markets based on just like what looks sexy. They're like I want to be in Denver. Like I want to be in Philly. You're like where did that come from? And they're like, oh, I don't know, I just think it could be cool to be in. And you're just like no way, like no way. So I think that is kind of similar to how people also market, right, they're like let's just try to blanket it out. In reality.
Speaker 3:It's not that you really I'm not saying you shouldn't target a broader demo than you may have now, but start with what's in your backyard, like you do with most people with CRMs. They have data and insights into who's buying their product. Start there. Like why reinvent the wheel? Like, if you see that you have an audience of like 50 year old women who love your low Cal Chardonnay. Like, why are you targeting people on TikTok that are like 25? Like, not that again.
Speaker 3:As you grow the business and you have the funds to target more demographics, go for it. By all means, throw shit against the wall. But in the meantime you most of these companies don't have those resources. So to me it's wasted money and resources when you should be looking at who is drinking your product now and then maybe, if you want to branch out into maybe an older demo or a younger demo, do it through strategic partnerships that already touch that demographic. You're never going to have the money to spend on all the different marketing efforts, at least again initially. So maybe there's a brand that's out there that, like all their demo is, is like women over 60. Why not just start there? Like, do social campaigns, create a product with them and then, as you have more money, you can build in more efforts to market more formally to a broader demographic of drinkers.
Speaker 2:That's smart, that's very smart. Who do you think in the emerging brands is doing this really well? And I know it's kind of like asking you to pick amongst your children.
Speaker 3:So I think there's a small think. There's an emerging brand called Casa Lu, out of Miami Latinx founders, and I think they've just really leaned into culture and they're the first, I think, latina RTD rum in a can, I believe. So they've leaned into very cool cultural partnerships and also knowing who their audience is and then also baking out partnerships and, honestly, a retail strategy based on who they have drinking their product, and they're one of the brands that has been hyper specific on wanting to stay in a market like florida, for example, which is a big market for flor New York. I am a huge advocate of not, you know, getting the cart before the horse, like figure out, like not only who your demographic is, but also like what works in a market or two and then you can have you can double it from there and other markets that are comparable. So I think Costolo is a really cool brand.
Speaker 3:I've been following them for a long time. We work together now. I love their, their story. I love their leaning into being a Latinx brand and finding synergistic partners that make sense for the business but also that will excite their demographic of drinkers, which they know through the research that they've done, but also by staying in their backyard of New York and Florida for the first few years to really understand that demo even further.
Speaker 1:For our final fun question that we like to ask everybody what is your favorite? We'll call it adult beverage.
Speaker 3:Oh, I don't drink as much as I want anymore, but there's nothing better than a mezcal with some club soda and, as tacky as it sounds, crystal Light, however, or light, however, or lemonade, whatever. Um, but I love everything smoky, so I, I love Lafroig, I love our bag, I love smoky mezcal. Anything that smells like a pipe or a furnace to me. What about you guys? I'm going to flip it back. What are your favorite drinks?
Speaker 2:I love Lafroig and Ardbeck too. You're hitting me on here. Yes, I love, and I'm also a vodka drinker. So I love like a Lafroig rinse with a just a water and vodka, martini and dirty blue cheese stuffed olives. So I think you and I have have some Wow.
Speaker 3:I think you know exactly. You're a woman who knows what she wants. Wow, that is. I've never even heard of that concoction before. That sounds delicious.
Speaker 2:We'll have to get together.
Speaker 3:You have to name it. Yeah, first, yes, and you have to name it.
Speaker 1:Our Christmas episodes tend to be an episode where we sort of live mix some drinks and we'll have Bridget come on and mix that for us live.
Speaker 3:Oh, that sounds amazing.
Speaker 1:I love that For me. I'm on the opposite end, at least on whiskeys. I prefer a strong alcohol burn. I want to taste what I'm drinking and my desert island brand is, and has been for the last decade, Tamdew.
Speaker 3:What is?
Speaker 2:Tamdew. Tamdew, yeah, I don't think I know that either.
Speaker 1:It's not as hard to find nowadays as it used to be, but it has quadrupled in price since I started drinking it. It's a Speyside, that's. It's overproofed. To your point earlier, taylor, yeah, that is a cask strength.
Speaker 3:Cask strength. I was going to say right.
Speaker 1:It's just, that's my forever drink. Wow, we've got to try it, otherwise I'm probably picking an Irish.
Speaker 2:I mean we have to have that team on. Then, If you're a diehard fan, we'll go ahead and go out and get the team on.
Speaker 1:I went to Scotland a couple of years ago and drove by the distillery, but it has no public facing operations. There's no gift shop. So I took a. I just got a photo by the sign just because I was that big of a fan.
Speaker 3:That's all you need to then be able to buy it moving forward. I love that.
Speaker 1:So that's my brand, but very good answers I love that my brand, but very good answers I love that I'm on Google AI who imports Pam dude.
Speaker 3:I know my life has become ChatGPT because I bought premium and I ask ChatGPT something pretty much like once every 10 minutes of my life. I just hope no one looks at my history. No one will ever talk to me again the questions that I ask ChatGPT. But I'm like where can I buy this whiskey?
Speaker 2:Okay, they're with Impax Beverages, so they're in good hands with Sam Filmes.
Speaker 1:We're finally getting to the real reason why this podcast came together at all. It was my desire to get a backdoor into a Tamdew supply.
Speaker 3:I love it Right, if nothing more than we succeeded. If you get it.
Speaker 1:Well, we want to give a huge, huge thanks tolor foxen for stopping by and sharing some of your expertise.
Speaker 3:Yes, thank you so much, thank you, guys, for having me. This was great for listeners.
Speaker 1:If you want to find out more, the website is the industry collectiveorg. We will put a link to that into the show notes if you want to find out more. Tay Taylor says the inbox is open, so make her regret those words and send her a hello from the podcast.
Speaker 3:Taylor at theindustrycollectiveorg. Yeah, thank you guys for having me. This was great.
Speaker 1:And thank you listeners for joining us on the MHW Mark podcast and thanks again to Bridget McCabe for joining me and hosting.
Speaker 2:Thank you, good to see you.
Speaker 1:This podcast is produced by me, Jimmy Moreland, with booking and planning support by Cassidy Poe and Bridget McCabe. It's presented by MHW. Find out more at mhwltdcom or connect with MHW on LinkedIn. Lend us a hand by subscribing, rating and reviewing this podcast wherever you listen. We'll be back in your feed in two weeks. We'll see you then, Cheers.