How Majken Shifted Her Focus and Left Insomnia Behind | Ep 39

In this beautiful interview, Majken opens up about her experience with insomnia, which started in her early 20’s after a stressful life event.

She tried all the traditional avenues over the years including medication and CBTI.

But insomnia kept coming back.

As a new mom, her sleep struggles resurfaced and eventually Majken found her way into the mentorship.

Tune in to hear:

• How she learned to focus on her responses (rather than trying to fix her sleep), and how this allowed insomnia to gradually loosen its grip.
• How she learned to observe her brain instead of getting tangled up with it.
• What got her through a later speed bump.
• How she developed a more accepting and resilient approach to dealing with sleep disruptions.

Majken reflects on the tiny little joys that brought her closer to life, and the unexpected silver linings that came with insomnia.

Connect with Beth Kendall:
👉 Instagram

Work with Beth Kendall:
👉 Learn About the Mentorship
👉 Start the Free Insomnia Course


Full Show Notes and Transcription

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About Beth Kendall MA, FNTP: 

For decades, Beth struggled with the relentless grip of insomnia. After finally understanding insomnia from a mind-body perspective, she changed her relationship with sleep, and completely recovered. Liberated from the constant worry of not sleeping, she’s on a mission to help others recover as well. Her transformative program Mind. Body. Sleep.® has been a beacon of light for hundreds of others seeking solace from sleepless nights. 

© 2023 - 2026 Beth Kendall

DISCLAIMER: The podcasts available on this website have been produced for informational, educational and entertainment purposes only. The contents of this podcast do not constitute medical or professional advice. No person listening to and/or viewing any podcast from this website should act or refrain from acting on the basis of the content of a podcast without first seeking appropriate professional advice and/or counseling, nor shall the information be used as a substitute for professional advice and/or counseling. The Mind. Body. Sleep. Podcast expressly disclaims any and all liability relating to any actions taken or not taken based on any or all contents of this site as there are no assurances as to any particular outcome.

Mind. Body. Sleep.® with Beth Kendall is your trusted source for holistic insomnia recovery, blending neuroplasticity, nervous system health, and mind-body coaching to help you finally sleep again.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:05

Hello and welcome to Mind Body Sleep, the podcast for anyone out there who wants to understand and recover from insomnia using a holistic perspective. I'm Beth Kendall, your host. Let's get started. Hello, everyone, and welcome to this very special episode where we have another Mind Body Sleep mentorship alum joining us today. Welcome, Mikein. Thank you, Beth. Thank you. Yeah. I'm so glad you're here. I'm always so happy when you guys reach out and want to be on the podcast because honestly, you guys can say this stuff better than I can a lot of times. And I think hearing these teachings from different people through different lenses can make such a difference to someone going through insomnia right now.

SPEAKER_01 0:54

Yeah. So yeah, I mean, that's really what I want to do. I want to uh yeah, just share my own story and I guess give hope and then yeah, back up your approach because it really, it really worked very well for me.

SPEAKER_02 1:10

I'm so glad and I'm I'm especially interested to hear from you what your journey has been like since completing the program because that was almost exactly a year ago, right? Last September. Because you joined in June. Yeah, June of 2023. Yeah. Okay, I'm so excited to dig in. But let's start with the let's give us the lay of the land. How did insomnia start for you and and what was that like?

SPEAKER_01 1:36

Yeah, so I mean, it started back in my early 20s. So I'm in my mid-30s now, and I had my first experience with insomnia in my early 20s, and really it was, I mean, it's not up on me as it does for a lot of people, I think, but it came after a stressful life event. We had some pretty serious illness in the family, and yeah, I I had recently moved to to Copenhagen. I live in Denmark, uh far away from from where I'm from, etc. And and then it started showing up around I think I took a trip. I was studying uh anthropology at the time. We took a trip to Greece and doing some field work, and it really started there on that trip. And then, you know, I I think very early on, somehow, the connection between this symptom, so this difficulty falling asleep for me, was made with uh stress. So, I mean, I'm I'm very fortunate to have a have a very loving and caring mom. She's also been in the in the psychiatric system for many years, and I mean it's been both good and bad because you know I I call my mom whenever something is up and she makes her own conclusions, and I think probably that's where the conclusion came from. And then, well, yeah, I mean she was like, Yeah, just really you need to like your body needs to calm down, like your nervous system needs to, you know, uh just chill and and you'll come home and it'll get better. And then it got a little better, it showed up again around exams. It went away for a bit, and then six months went by, and then I had exams again, and it became really severe at that time. And I mean, this was I was gonna say this so many years ago, so so of course we had the internet, but I don't remember at that time to be falling into the research trap as such, but I guess I was still feeling a lot of anxiety around the symptom and really trying to fix it, right?

SPEAKER_00 3:50

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 3:52

And yeah, then I think also with this yeah, with with with with the backup of my mom, she was like, You yeah, you need to seek help at at your doctor, and I went there and it was kind of a story where they then said, Yeah, this is probably stress related to exams, your young student, like overachieving, blah blah blah. And then yeah, I kind of got through different like parts of the system until not the system, I I mean I I the traditional avenues. Yeah, yeah, that's it. Yeah. And then it ended up with a diagnosis. I think at the end of it was the summer, uh huh. And I and I remember after a really bad couple of days without sleep, I I went to the ER because I was so scared and crying and really just I had no idea what was going on. And I went to the ER and they I think they probably gave me some mild antipsychotic uh at least on very strong pills. And I should say at that time I was also on sleeping pills, but they had stopped working, you know. I then at that point I I went, I I kind of pulled the plug, I went home to my parents' place, which was also kind of the advice, right? Okay, if you're under a lot of stress, you need to just pull the plug and you need to just like get your mind and body like in a relaxed state for that. Yeah. For me, the the impulse was to go back to my parents' place, which was kind of a safe place to be, you know, and it didn't get better over the summer, and uh and then I ended up at another doctor and with the diagnosis of mild, I guess, depression. And that came me because this doctor, she was like, let's start. She started me on melatonin, it didn't work. She was like, let's start uh an antidepressant. So it was neotizepine, I think it's quite it's probably called different things, but anyway, it worked instantly. And that is because I mean I later found out that it is used as an offering for for insomnia, right? And what it did for me, I think, was just to knock me out. I mean it just I think it knocks your nervous system out, and then the fear disappeared, right? Yeah, yeah. And then I think it was like, okay, the conclusion is you have this is a stress slash uh depression, like mild depression. And and I was on the anti antidepressants for I think about a year, and then I stopped them, and uh yeah, i everything was fine. And uh yeah, so I think that was really it was really this pill, right? That was like, okay, that's just working for me. And ever since then, I remember like over the years, I was like, what if this stuff comes back, you know, because it was so it was so debilitating. It was really like the state I was in, it was yeah, I felt like a yeah, like a zombie, you know, like that you're you're not yeah, you're existing in the world, but not really, you know.

SPEAKER_02 7:13

Yeah, yeah. It creates an imprint, you know. It it yeah, it it definitely does, and and it can follow you around, you know, like, oh, is that ever gonna come back? Or yeah, you know, what if that ever comes back? So I I totally get it. And you know, I'm sure that was really perplexing when you, you know, you went on the meds that were initially for depression, but then here they help you with your sleep. Yeah, and you were probably like, well, this is great, you know. Um, but not really knowing still the underlying driver for insomnia. So so you got better, and then you know, they worked great, and then did you go off the meds or what happened then?

SPEAKER_01 7:51

Yeah, so I went off the meds and it went like it was really like a slow like paper. Yeah, going off the meds slowly, and then I I it was fine, you know, and for about 10 years it was fine. And it was, you know, I I kind of revisited in my mind of like, what if yeah, what if this stuff comes back? I'm saying, okay, I I I just have this medicine, so I don't worry about it. I have medicine. Yeah. So I mean that makes sense when this second episode comes about in my life, which was after I became a mom for the second time, and my my daughter was three months old, and it was an intense time in my life, you know, like it uh not only having a baby, but a second one. And also I I mean I'm even in motherhood, I I am I'm really working on on decreasing the pressure that I put on myself, but I think at that early time I I did put a lot of pressure on myself and and of course it showed up in sleep. And you know, with my son, my first born, I I didn't yeah, you know, you wake up, uh sleep was bad, but it never got to the point where it it was always because of the baby, you know, it was never me. And then I first remember one night with my daughter and she was about three months old and my partner wasn't there. I was alone with them, and I didn't it was a full night of of not sleeping. And it was the first time where I had like this is I had a had a little bit leading up to that, but it was the first time I was like, shit, like this is not the baby, this is me. And I completely panicked. Yup, yeah. And I just yeah, I feel like it was just the fear showing up, like you said like I don't know, at some point in your show you said like fear showing up in another pair of shoes, and this was just fear showing up in like super giant boots, like really, really big. Here I am. Yeah. And at the time I didn't see this fear, you know. I just I instantly was like, shit, I can't. I'm the mother of these two very young kids. I need to function, you know, like I can't go down like this. And um, so what I did, I instantly called uh next morning, you know, after not having slept. I I first called my mom. And then I call I called my doctor and I got an appointment the next day, and and I went to her and I said, This is what I'm experiencing, you know, I had it before, I can't go through this right now. Uh I need to go on the meds. Yeah. And she said, Yeah, okay, you know, like we can do that, that's fine. You could also just because it was diagnosed as depression or slight stress, you know, she was like, you can also see uh like cognitive therapy, that's what they recommend, you know, as a first step before you go on meds. And we can see this after as an you know kind of postpartum depression or postpartum reaction. So but I was quite I was quite determined, I was like, I want to go on the meds. I can't I can yes, therapy, yes, but I want to go on the meds. Yeah. Like, okay, fine. And um, well, the meds I really meant, you know, I'm not going through this again, you know, like I'm they they're gonna help me straight away. Yeah. And okay, so I went on the meds and I also started some therapy. I mean, and then for about six months, it was fine, you know. I I didn't have any symptoms until it was New Year's Eve. And and I can just see it now, you know, it's completely natural. Like it's completely natural to be affected by sleep because we were at a friend's house, it was in the city in Copenhagen, in a neighborhood with like so many fireworks throughout the night, and I had even a baby still, and I had my two, you know, young children. Yeah, and I didn't sleep through the night. And he was like, Yeah, but of course, you know. But at that time I just I didn't see it as yeah, you know, and and that's okay because I didn't know, but yeah. But I I then saw it as the myths are not working, and that's where I I really freaked out. That's that's where it really Yeah. Then from there we're moving into kind of a yeah, it's it's it's also an emotional time for me to talk about because it was such a until I encountered you, it was it was really a time filled with such tense anxiety, and and I mean all these attempts of fixing this and attempts ranging from going up in the doses of the meds. Yeah, and that was also you know recommended by my day doctor. And you know, I I started all these uh kind of protective measures for my sleep, you know. I started not sleeping with my usually with co-sleep, I started sleeping away from my partner and my kids, you know, stopping coffee, stopping like like and even like I don't know, it was like then I read like yeah, you need to exercise every morning, whatever. So I went on a run with my you know, daughter like sleeping every morning. You need to take a cold bath. So I did that, and all these attempts of fixing it, which yeah, made it worth, and and that's what I can see. But I it was that was just no advice.

SPEAKER_00 13:38

Yeah, you mean in another direction, you know?

SPEAKER_02 13:40

Yeah, you didn't know. I mean, that's what they tell tell us to do, so that's what we do, and we do it earnestly, and we do it well, and you know, we're very determined and disciplined with with all of it, and yeah, um, but we're really not getting the full picture of what's going on, and that just can ramp it up more, you know, like okay, none of this is really helping. In fact, I you know, what we're unintentionally doing is accommodating insomnia more. Yeah. And I was I was so curious when you were talking, and I don't think I've ever asked this, but at the time, do you remember what you thought the problem was? Did you just feel it was just strictly a physical problem, or do you uh or depression or postpartum still, or what were your thoughts on it at the time?

SPEAKER_01 14:26

If you I think I Yeah, I I I was pretty confused. I mean, the thing about I think it occurred to me a couple of months into this process that there was something about the fact that it only being sleep. You know, and I remembered that I remember that also in my first episode, this kind of wonder, like, okay, yeah, but I'm actually not I've never I mean, so what does it mean to be in depression? I mean, yeah, I don't know that, but this kind of okay, it's really about sleep and not so many other symptoms. And at some point that led me to C BTI. And I it's funny, it's funny, it's funny that you asked me that because I I think I was also so guided by you know doctors and then you know, my dear mom who was also just really trying everything to help you, but having having her perspective on those kind of symptoms which are uh yeah, like strictly within kind of the diagnosis scheme, you know. And yeah, I can see that that that did trap me. And that's also one of the reasons why I wanted to come on the show is that you know I I also see other people and or have encountered other people uh around me being in this kind of trap where sleep is and is the main symptom. Yeah and but but then because you know when stress, you know, the the I mean it's it's just a tricky thing because of course you can like how do you distinguish between these kind of experiences or conditions? But at least for me it was a trap or kind of a uh at least a a situation where I didn't I could have gotten help earlier, I think, if it wasn't because it was diagnosed as um stress or depression, you know, because yeah. In the end that okay, the meds work, but they only work because they knocked me out and they took fear wind and until they didn't work, right? Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 16:41

Yeah. And you know, I and sometimes I think though it's okay to go down those other routes first because it it usually people find the mentorship or find me usually when they've exhausted all those other things because this is much more of an you know what I mean? Like this could be perceived as the harder way around. You know, this is like, oh, that sounds like a lot of work, you know, a lot of internal work versus, well, I can just do this clear-cut approach, you know, and just it sounds and just I think naturally as human beings, we're much more inclined to take the path of least resistance versus like, oh, you know, like having a whole re-education on insomnia and everything else. That's really it is the fastest way in a roundabout way. But yeah, all of that just makes makes so much sense. And then so you were saying you you ran into CBTI and and how was that for you? Yeah, that can go a lot of ways too.

SPEAKER_01 17:37

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I ran into like these online programs, and I I think, yeah. I mean, I paid too much for something that was like a text-based service. And I I mean I I did follow it quite strictly for a while, like these like whatever, five and a half hours of sleep every night. Oh yeah, the sleep restriction. Yeah, and um, but I mean I yeah, it led me to then, I think maybe it was the third program or something where there was something about acceptance and commitment theory in it. And that started to resonate, and then I think if I had ever had a sleepless night or just a really rough night, I would I I would just instantly go on Google whenever the night was over. Yeah. And I was doing I would just research for like, I don't know, 45 minutes, one hour, like completely, like what you're not supposed to do. But anyway, I did that. And on one of these research, kind of just trying to crunch this, I did encounter your website and your free email course. And I signed up for it, and I think like really soon after that, I was like, okay, I just I I need I need this. And at that point, I was really, yeah, I mean, as as you know you are when when you're just exhausted of this running your life, I was I just yeah, whatever it took to fix it. So yeah, I signed up for your course and I offer your for your mentorship, and yeah. And yeah, that's why I started, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:12

Yeah, and I'm so glad you did. I'm so glad you did. Yeah. So that was back in June of 2023. And then we worked together, and that was wonderful. And so you would have graduated in um September a year ago. And so, like, tell us how the process, like going through the mentorship and what your recovery process was like, since we have like a a span of time to sort of look at with that.

SPEAKER_01 19:44

Yeah. Yeah. So I think I mean I remember just eagerly waiting. I think it was every Tuesday that you put out a new video and uh yeah, sitting there waiting. And and I mean, I think maybe it was week two or something where where it's really Um this kind of learning about responses and focusing on responses, and that started quite quickly to resonate with me. And and I remember I one thing I didn't mention was that I I had also isolated myself socially throughout months of just yeah, uh both taking like one month in a vacation home and like away from everyone, and kind of the same kind of safety-seeking behavior, and and but also at home I had to spend really protecting myself. But I remember I think it was about one week after studying program, it was my birthday. And I was like, Yeah, you know, I'm gonna invite people. And I would not have done that, you know. I would just because it was this kind of you need to protect your energy, you need to uh, you know, when you're in treatment for stress or depression, it's all about like spending as little energy as possible. Like, I don't know, just really being in this kind of protective scheme modes. And I I think from there on I really took this idea of challenging myself and focusing on the responses. And I I will say of course those two, three months over the summer, many bumpy nights and um I had also I I didn't work at the time. I mean I had I was on maternity leave, but then I had kind of extended that into sick leave because I was simply not I thought capable of working, you know, or functioning. And um and then I started work, I think also about a week after the first office call because it was like, okay, it seems like I just need to attack life and no matter how hard it is. And uh yes, I started working, we started uh socializing again. We had a trip about I think end of July to friends where my partner is from. I remember thinking we were going to a wedding, and it was super like a super stressful full day of travel with two kids. And the wedding was the day after, and we were sleeping in this cottage that we had rented. And first of all, I bumped my head during the night and and got some kind of migraine attack, and then I had a full night of not sleeping, and I still went to the wedding the day after, and I was like, I'm not gonna give a fuck. Like, I'm just gonna go to the wedding. And that I think was actually my last full night of no sleep. And I'm kinda like, I just would, you know, without your support, without the program, I would just have stayed far away from any trip to France, any kind of like trouble with young kids, you know. But I just did it and it was like, okay, I'm just gonna, I'm not gonna care, you know, like it can come, but I'm gonna I'm gonna do this because this is this is what life is. And I of course there were like days and nights with frustration, but I really yeah, I really just took this idea of of focusing on life and focusing less on this on problem in general, yeah. Yeah, yeah, and like I I just stopped trying to fix it and and focus on other things and and I think there were many learnings that it resonated with me throughout your program, but I think this I mean, yeah, just just focus focus on life, focus on what's going on around me, on work, on kids, uh attending parties. And then, you know, it yeah, it slowly lost its its power over me and and and sleep slowly started to just be what it was, you know, like something that came and sometimes it was hard, and sometimes uh not hard, but sometimes, you know, I would have nights with little sleep and that was okay. You know, it it wasn't the kind of the emotional attachment, the anxiety around it, it went away, yeah. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 23:55

Yeah. Yeah, I feel like a lot of times, I mean, sleep is did you feel like a lot of the program integrated after the program, like after the three months is when, you know, through that process of living life, those principles and teachings kept integrating?

SPEAKER_01 24:16

Yeah, for sure I did. And I I mean I remember now we we we had a call, I think, back in January or something. Oh, I had a Okay, yeah, well yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_02 24:28

Oh good, let's talk about that. Let's talk about that. Because I know sometimes when people, you know, they they come through and they they're sleeping really well and things are really well, and then it isn't unusual at all to get a speed bump, even several months in, and it can kind of throw you, you know, because you think, oh, I just thought I was just completely done with this. And it can just like kind of knock the wind out of you a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 24:52

So so tell us a little bit more about that. Yeah, it did. I mean, uh yeah, it was after, you know, Christmas and like kind of intense family holiday time, and and I remember it was a week or two left, and I remember I was like, Yeah, booked an appointment with you, and oh, I I think I wrote you an email and you were like, Yeah, that's normal, you know, but let's talk. Yeah. And a lot of people experienced this around this time, and and yeah, we talked, and I I just really yeah, I appreciate what you said. You said I mean this is it's not anything that you're doing wrong, it's just normal that it can come. And yeah, you also, yeah, I said something you you will have more clarity at the end of it. And but I I did start to have a little bit of the fixing behavior. I did yeah, not like not at to the same extent as before, but I was like, oh, you know what, I'm gonna download this this book or whatever, you know. Yeah. Which was like, okay, fine, but then I had to call with you, and I I kind of went back into the acceptance of this being completely normal that it was my brain looking out for me and yeah, it would pass. And I think since then I've had I've had many choppy nights, and I mean I recently had a we celebrated our wedding this summer and it was it was quite a stressful time. And and I had yeah, I had choppy nights and but I'm able to have them now and not care about it or not moving into fix it mode and just be like, yeah, it's fine, you know, it's it's a normal part of life. And even though some people never experience it, a lot of people do.

SPEAKER_02 26:35

I'd say most people do, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:37

Yeah, that's but when you are experiencing insomnia, you don't really see that, you know, it's a very, very normal reaction on the part of your brain and your body to be in intense times having sleeping, you know.

SPEAKER_02 26:52

And but yeah, yeah, that's well said. And yeah, I mean, everything we're saying about Christmas, you know, I mean, I think that's really real. I think even people without insomnia can have some rough sleep just with all of it, like just the whole thing. Yeah, can um the travel, the family dynamics, the all of it. Um, you know, and it's so common. And as you move further and further in your recovery, like the sensitivity to those choppy nights just gets less or sensitivity to like just normal sleep disruptions, like they will just become, you know, normal sleep disruptions again, then and your brain doesn't, you know, just go into like full activation mode anymore. And I'm so glad. I'm just so so so glad to hear that. And you know, were there any silver linings that came with the experience of insomnia for you, Mike and Janet?

SPEAKER_01 27:49

Yeah, I think I thought about a couple, but I I think one thing that's really important for me in my life now is this notion of I think you call it brain drama at some point, or the the kind of the ability to look at what my brain is telling me and sometimes just don't care. And that's not only sleep, that's also other you know, areas in my life where I can be like, oh, now my brain is completely like freaking out about this or this or that.

SPEAKER_02 28:20

My brain does this frequently, yes.

SPEAKER_01 28:21

Uh huh. And I can just be like, yeah, okay, yeah, but maybe it's gonna be fine, and move on and kind of label it as brain drama and and just not go along with it. And that's such a freeing skill to have, in fact. And and I remember, you know, before also in cognitive therapy, like this notion of that you are not your thoughts, and I never really understood it. You know, I know you hear it so much, you're like, yeah, you're not your thoughts and emotions, but what does it actually mean? And I I I mean going through this, I really understand it now. I really understand it. And I and it's so helpful in um like in parenting, in even the worries I can have about many things in life. Yeah, I I have the skill to to look at all this brain drama and kind of be like, yeah, well, maybe it's gonna be fine. And uh yeah, I'm very that so definitely that's a silver lining. And then I think also just in your teachings, there is also the yeah, like focus on life and and joy, you know, joy in little things, and it sounds yeah, so you know, banal, but it is really all there is. Yeah, it's being able to really I think we said once like duck into the flow and even in the flow also, just just experiencing all these joys that are offered to us every day in nature, in relationships, in solitude, and food, in work, whatever. But and it's not I don't remember it all the time, and it's a I think it's a lifelong learning and and to really appreciate that and and to be with that. But I I think definitely your program has also kind of put me further on the on the course of that. So yeah. Plenty of silver linings.

SPEAKER_02 30:25

Oh, so well said. I I'm glad that that you had some silver linings, you know. I remember I had a guest a while back and she was like, Oh, I don't know. I don't know if there were any silver linings, but but you know, I mean sometimes there are, and sometimes they come later, you know, and it can even much later. But those are beautiful, beautiful reflections. So yeah. Well, this feels like a wonderful place to wrap up this beautiful interview, Mike. And I cannot thank you enough for sharing your story and vulnerability with us. Thank you, thank you for being here. But thank you, Beth. I mean, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:03

Yeah, that's all I can say. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 31:06

Yeah, you are you are. It's my pleasure to be able to do this work and see, and then to be able to talk to you guys a year later is just icing on the cake. So yeah. If if any of the other Mind Body Sleep alums out there want to come on the show, send me an email. I would love to have you. Until next time, I'm Beth Kendall and you've been listening to the Mind Body Sleep podcast. Bye for now. Thanks for being here today. If you love what you heard on today's episode, don't forget to hit the like button and subscribe to the podcast. And if you need more support with your sleep, join me in the Mind Body Sleep Mentorship. This three month one on one program will transform your relationship with sleep so you can get back to living the life that you love free from the fear of not sleeping. Head on over to bethkendle.com for more details. I'll see you next time.