How Carlos Got His Life Back from Insomnia | Ep 66

In this deeply relatable episode, Carlos shares his honest journey through insomnia.

After years of overthinking and long sleep onset, a period of intense work stress pushed his nervous system into full-blown survival mode, and not sleeping became something his brain perceived as a threat. 

Like so many others, Carlos did what we're told to do: CBT-I, sleep restriction, breathing exercises, supplements, medications, and constant sleep monitoring — only to find that the harder he tried, the worse it got.

In this conversation, Beth and Carlos explore the deeper truth behind insomnia:

Sleep isn’t something you need to produce. It’s something the body does naturally all on its own.

Tune in for hope, validation, and a new way of understanding insomnia recovery.

Connect with Beth:

👉  Instagram 

Work with Beth:

👉   Learn About the Mind. Body. Sleep. Mentorship
👉   Start the Free Insomnia Course Here

Show Notes HERE.


About Beth Kendall MA, FNTP: 

For decades, Beth struggled with the relentless grip of insomnia. After finally understanding insomnia from a mind-body perspective, she changed her relationship with sleep, and completely recovered. Liberated from the constant worry of not sleeping, she’s on a mission to help others recover as well. Her transformative program Mind. Body. Sleep.® has been a beacon of light for hundreds of others seeking solace from sleepless nights.

© 2023 - 2026 Beth Kendall

DISCLAIMER: The podcasts available on this website have been produced for informational, educational and entertainment purposes only. The contents of this podcast do not constitute medical or professional advice. No person listening to and/or viewing any podcast from this website should act or refrain from acting on the basis of the content of a podcast without first seeking appropriate professional advice and/or counseling, nor shall the information be used as a substitute for professional advice and/or counseling. The Mind. Body. Sleep. Podcast expressly disclaims any and all liability relating to any actions taken or not taken based on any or all contents of this site as there are no assurances as to any particular outcome.

Mind. Body. Sleep.® with Beth Kendall is your trusted source for holistic insomnia recovery, blending neuroplasticity, nervous system health, and mind-body coaching to help you finally sleep again.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03: 0:05

Hello and welcome to Mind Body Sleep, the podcast for anyone out there who wants to understand and recover from insomnia using a holistic perspective. I'm Beth Kendall, your host. Let's get started. Hello everyone, and welcome back to the Mind Body Sleep Podcast. Today I am incredibly grateful to have another member of the mentorship program with us. And I'm so thankful that he's willing to come on and share his story with us because these episodes are the ones that truly seem to hit home for people. I think that when you're in the thick of it, it can feel like you're the only one going through insomnia. But then when you hear from other people who are going through something so similar and then moving beyond it, it brings a kind of relief and hope that nothing nothing else can. So I want to extend a very warm welcome to you, Carlos. Thank you for being here.

SPEAKER_00: 1:14

Thanks for having me. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03: 1:16

Yeah. Okay. Well, we've talked about having you on for a while and you're finally here. I couldn't be happier. So just start out with the first question, which is if you wouldn't mind just walking us back a bit and telling us how your story began.

SPEAKER_00: 1:34

Okay. Well, my story actually began when I was a kid. I think when I first had my one-on-one with you, my first one, you know, I was that kid that I like I remember vividly when I was in kindergarten and preschool, like nap time for me was like a struggle. And I and I'd sit there watching all the other kids with the music to to and the lights would turn off to have us take our afternoon nap, right? And and I just could not fall asleep. I would not. I just and and I was sort of almost like like envious of it. Like, how come I can't sleep? How come, how come these kids all fall asleep and I'm sitting here? And it's the same, you know, I'm just having conversations with some colleagues in the office about we're all have a conference in New York and the flights of what my schedule is permitting would require me to get on a red eye to go to New York. You know, I just tell people like I don't sleep on planes. I don't sleep on planes for international flights. You know, I remember a 14-hour flight to Australia and to Europe, et cetera. I just don't sleep on planes. I'm the guy walking around, sitting with his uh dome light up, reading that's who I am. And and I remember as a kid as well, my parents would put me to bed and I would just not fall asleep. I I remember I could hear my dad uh laughing at Johnny Carson in the other room or laughing hysterically, my parents laughing at at, I mean, I guess I'm aging myself, the Carol Burnett show of these other things. Oh yeah. And I would I'd get out of bed and come like, what are you laughing at? What's so funny, you know? But that that's just I just couldn't fall asleep. I was the last kid to fall asleep at the slumber party. I just always had a long sleep onset that seemed to go on quite a while throughout my life. It would be, it seemed like an hour or two before I could wind down. I do have a very active mind, and I'm a I'm an overthinker by self-diagnosis and and friends telling me too. So that that's that's my childhood. Going to sleep was just took me a long time. Yeah. It just did.

SPEAKER_03: 3:50

Yeah, yeah. I can just kind of picture you like so curious as a young guy. And you know, I just wanted to offer that it is it is normal for people to have like variability with their with their sleep onset, you know, just the way people have different appetites or different uh body temperatures or things, things like that. And did you think of it as a problem back then, or was it just that's just the way you were?

SPEAKER_00: 4:19

It was just kind of like, how come me? How come I remember my older cousin taking care of me one night as my sitter and just watching him like fall asleep instantly? And I'm just like, I can't do that. I don't know why. So it it wasn't a problem for me. I don't think I my parents always were pretty rigid as far as like wanting to make sure I got my the amount of sleep I needed for the next day of school. And they probably did put me to sleep earlier than I wanted to. So I never was tired or it didn't show up in any other aspects of my life. It was just like that was just what I I recall.

SPEAKER_03: 4:58

Yeah you know, yeah, yeah, I'm with you. I was very, very similar, Carlos.

SPEAKER_00: 5:02

So I remember your story, yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 5:05

Mm-hmm. Okay, so you kind of were you like to think at night. I know that we've talked about that several times. And and that's not unusual either. I sometimes get my best thinking done at night. So tell us how insomnia developed for you.

SPEAKER_00: 5:22

Well, I remember one instance of insomnia I had had for a shorter period of time, a number of years ago, almost 20 years ago, I left a job that I helped start the company, and it was very, very close to several people there. And for whatever reason came about, I left. And that was the first time I had really had like a small insomnia bout. I and and friends kind of told me, like, this is not uncommon, you know, those are big stressors, um, you know, leaving a job, you know, marriage, divorce, death of a spouse or or some close. Those may be events that sort of could can trigger it. So so I had a short-term bout with it, and and I I remembered that. And then I kind of actually noticed in my life that my sleep onset was starting to really minimize. Like I could really be the proverbial person that fell asleep once my head hit the pillow, you know, that that type of thing. I wasn't the type of person that you've talked about, those people that could sleep anywhere. Like I remember traveling with one of my best friends to Europe back in 2000, and that guy could sleep anywhere, like on a on a train, on a plane, on a like whatever. And I'm just looking like, how do you do it? But my sleep onset just was never an issue until it began in 2024. And so we're sitting here now in um December of December of 2025. And actually, at my job, which I had been there for 17 years, and uh a very intimate and private company, 25 people probably, but created quite a powerhouse of what we did in our industry. And I'm in the real estate investment industry.

SPEAKER_02: 7:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 7:13

And without going into it, some some events happened that were pretty shattering or just shook me up greatly from ownership and management. And as we, as I proceeded to find out, they were negative and and they were illegal, not the activities they were doing, but what was being done to me. It was really a dark time for me. It was the first time in my life and professionally that I had ever gone through. As one of my advisors was telling me, it's he's like, you're you that's called white-collar bullying. And so that was very unsettling for me. And it first showed up in my physical health. Like I would go to work every day and my stomach would be upset. I'd had high blood pressure, I was having panic attacks. This was going on throughout a period of time, and then it it kind of realized I'd have to leave this job because there's no resolving the situation at hand. And it was very troubling and it was very dark. That's all I can say. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it involved, you know, also people that I thought were close to me or were close to me, but it was just, it was a really, really dark and sad time. And so once I made the decision, like it looks like I'm going to have to be moving on to uh the place that I work now, that became very anxious for me because some of the actions that had been taken against me were just quite mean and quite out of character for and it involved nothing with production or some I had been out of character or uh or behaved improper. It was kind of just, you know, yeah, just just like high school bullying. You can't sit at our lunch table anymore, you know, type thing. Yeah. And I never experienced that, by the way. I had a great, great high school and great college, but I just that's when the sleep started to get uh, shall we say, uh disrupted. Now, it was it was a big heavy onset time period. It would be two or three hours because I was anxious about what legal actions or what type of actions would be taken against me because I would still be going to a competitive firm. On top of all the I was having panic attacks sometime at work, etc. And so I I had a little friend that I used once in a while, about twice a month, Lerazepan and Adavan to quiet my mind, as the doctor had prescribed it. And again, there was no abuse of it. It was I felt very comfortable with it. Like, well, I'm gonna use if I have a milligram tablet, I'm gonna cut it in half or a quarter even, and just get myself to quiet my mind and get to sleep. And it it worked. It it did.

SPEAKER_02: 10:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 10:04

And that went on for several months until it got close to leaving. And about that time I was really anxious and scared. And I left the company in the end of 2024, and I came to my new company. And I can tell you, when I got here to the new company, it was like coming to paradise. Like I was around great people and a great company, and they respected me. And not only you saw my wonderful view from my office, and we're we're right here at the foot of a wonderful outdoor regional mall here in Southern California and Newport Beach. And anybody listening that knows that will know where that is. Yeah. But it just it felt like I was in on vacation every day, and I just loved it and and loved coming to work again. I felt safe, just honored, respected. And it was just night and day what I had experienced, unfortunately, at the company. I'd been there 17 years. So so I arrive at the new company. Am I going on too long here? Or is it no, no, no?

SPEAKER_03: 11:10

I'm just I'm just listening. And you're you're you're explaining it all so well. And that must have been just such a a challenging time in in life. But you know, the the silver lining is that you have landed in this in this place of new beginnings, and we were just talking about your new office and new energy and all of that. But I I understand how how difficult that must have been. And it makes sense that you would have, you know, huge variations in in your sleep and sense of safety in the world and just the processing all of what that must have been like, just the disappointment and and all the change in all of it. So I just I I I really uh I hear you and and how difficult that must have been.

SPEAKER_00: 11:54

Yeah. And I look back and I even remember some good friends of mine who were helping me along the way that there were kind of I was confiding in, and and they were responding back like, I'm really worried about you. You know, like like you seem very traumatized, or somebody else was like, gosh, I, you know, they shared with me three months later, or four months, like, gosh, I was really scared for you back in new, you know, four months ago. You were really had an having a hard time with this. And I'm like, I I guess I was, I really was. So I arrive at the new place and I got here on November of 2024, and I made it through the holidays, etc. And at the end of January of this year, 2025, the flu was going around, a heavy flu. And I remember getting it, and like, you know, enough to keep me home from work and not do some other activities that I had planned. And during the course of it, like I couldn't fall asleep. And I took Pseudofed, and then I realized, oh, you know, there's um, there's maybe some insomnia issue dealing with it, and I didn't really understand those issues. And so I I managed a couple like telling myself, well, I need some sleep, you know, and the best thing I can do for myself, maybe just get some good night's sleep. Let's let's take some Atavan. And so I I took like maybe half or a quarter tablet for like six days. And I felt at that point, I'm like, okay, feels good. I'm gonna, I'm gonna move on now. And then I couldn't fall asleep. And I had this like sleep anxiety that started coming in, and I'm like, what's going on? Like, what what is happening? I feel really nervous in bed right now, and I I can't sleep. And it happened the next night and the next night and the next night. And so I'm kind of starting to freak out, going, like, you know, am I addicted to benzos or you know, whatever on 25 milligrams of of a tablet, you know, of a quarter tablet. Uh, I even remember calling like a hotline, uh, which which there is starting the the what things were happening. There was a lot of fear and that it carried over from my departure. And that's where this all started. I called the hotline, and the girl's like, no, you're not addicted to it, but you should get off of it as quickly as possible. And if I were you, I would just try melatonin. And so I was like, that sounds great. So I went and got melatonin, and I used it for about five or six nights. I did not like the way it felt. It felt kind of chemical and just not real, you just fuzzy. And so I went off of it. And what happened? I couldn't fall asleep, and then I couldn't fall asleep the next night, and it went on for about five nights, like five nights of no sleep. Yeah. I was like a wreck. So I went to my sleep doctor that I use for my CPAP, and she said, Okay, that's this is kind of strange, but I'm gonna recommend for you to try this CBTI um and and read these books about insomnia. And it it worked for a couple of weeks. Like I managed to get back to sleep again. I wasn't taking anything, but then back in early March, it came roaring back again, four and five nights of no sleep. And I called her up again and she's like, Oh, wow. Well, now you've gone into chronic, you're not acute, you're chronic insomnia. And I'm like, I don't know what this means. And she's like, Yeah, you need to sign up right away for CBTI, like I told you to a month ago. And so, so if I were you, I'd get on it right away. So I signed up.

SPEAKER_03: 15:41

That right there would freak me out.

SPEAKER_00: 15:44

Right.

SPEAKER_03: 15:45

And get started immediately because you've gone chronic. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 15:51

And and I I did ask her, I said, you know, because I went for a nice weekend, you know, relaxing, doing what I like to do out in the desert, and it was involving some a motor racing activity, which I'm a big fan of. And I my friends were telling me, like, once you, that's what you love doing, you're gonna have a great night's sleep while you're out there. And I did ask the doctor, I said, is there something that I can take, maybe a break the glass type scenario? So she prescribed trazodome. And by the way, I did um in that month in the February, March, when I was kind of going through it up and down, I I did resume acupuncture. Okay, because I heard that's that's you know, insomnia, it cures insomnia. Yeah, and and that what that wasn't working.

SPEAKER_01: 16:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 16:39

And and by the way, she had told me also try these deep breathing exercises. So what is it, the seven, four, eight or whatever, the that type of thing. And so none of that was working. And then try the the calm app and yeah, like no.

SPEAKER_03: 16:56

Yeah, and yes, and can you see how clearly the hamster wheel of looking for external yes, you know, it it and and how easily that that can become the pattern of looking for something outside of you when if that doctor had had possibly just explained to you, you know, you're you're experiencing some some sleep anxiety and it's the worry about not sleeping, and there's possibly some fear involved here, and that, you know, that your sleep system will naturally just get you right back on track. But it's it's so just common, you know, to follow through on all of these things that you did because that's kind of what we're told to do. And it seems like the fixing mindset, I call it, works so well for other aspects of life. Just for sleep, it tends to have, you know, the opposite effect.

SPEAKER_00: 17:47

Oh, yeah. And I remember during that time, I was, I mean, I would get anxious, like like deeply anxious that I've never felt other than you maybe other small instances at bedtime or before bedtime.

SPEAKER_01: 18:00

Sure.

SPEAKER_00: 18:01

And it was it was really crippling. I was just like, whoa, what's happening? It was like, I remember also one of the things, and that's where we're going here with fear. During that February, March, you even the acupuncturists and others, they would be like, Well, when was the last time you had a blood test? And I'm like, it has been longer than I I should have. I should, I probably neglected it from six months ago. Because yeah, it could be organ issues or something. And so, so now I'm in that hamster wheel as well, thinking like, well, maybe I'm not responding well. You know, maybe the uh the melatonin was because I have a you know poor liver or whatever, you know, and I'm just thinking fear and Google, Dr. Google, and all the things you do. And so I remember I did take a blood test in like end of March and it came back Nemo. You know, all my my my markers were normal. And I remember I had a good night's sleep that night. I remember like the night I got those back, and then I went through and I looked through them. It was like, oh wow, and I slept really well. Now I go into CBTI, that to me was like leeches, you know, like in the in the study in the back. So, so it's like, wait a minute, so what are we doing here? And she's like, We're we're doing what's called sleep restriction therapy. And I'm like, okay, yeah. So she explained how it works. And if anybody's listening to this, you probably have done it, is the way I would say. But but the sleep restriction, it did not work for me. In fact, the CBTI accelerated my sleep anxiety because you know what do they tell you? They have all the sleep hygiene things, okay? So you're following those very rigidly. And then now they've moved my bedtime to to 12 30 p.m. a.m. with the sleep restriction. And then I still am dealing with insomnia and I'm not falling asleep. And what they're telling me is get out of bed and then do something until you fall asleep, right? And then Go back and then resume, but that wasn't working. Like I knew that as soon as I got out of bed, like I was done for the night. Like there, there's no going back. I was not going to wake up after a nap, etc. So CBTI did not work from that standpoint. And I remember as well, and this was something is totally contrary to your program. I did reach out to my coach or therapist or what have you. And I just sent her an email a couple of times, like, look, I'm really having a hard time with this. Like, I just, it's dreadful. And I remember when we had a session, one of our one-on-ones, she kind of was like, Well, could I ask a favor from you? And I was like, Yeah. She's like, Could you not send emails like that? We'll just have them for this process. Your email that you was sent me on on the messages is strictly for technical issues with the site. And I was like, Wow. Okay.

SPEAKER_03: 20:53

So And this is your CBTI therapist?

SPEAKER_00: 20:56

Yes. Yeah. Okay. Okay. On top of it, to my doctor, I'm responding to my doctor saying, like, um, I don't know about like I'm feeling very strange about this trazodone. And the only response I got back, oh, by the way, she left her practice. And so I was, you know, sort of uh adopted by another doctor who I had no connection with. And I'm just getting messages back from, you know, on the portal from an administrator saying, stay with your medication, do not alleviate, you know. So so during that time of March, April was a very like lonely time going through insomnia and all of the the late nights, the multiple nights, the sleep anxiety, uh as you called it, patternizing, trying to figure out like, did I did I eat too late? Did I have Chinese food? You know, what what was the solution, or where did you know, all those things were where we're at? So May comes along and I am taking a lesser dose of Trazinone and I am starting to calm down a little bit and I'm starting to feel good. But I went on vacation to the um the city of Indianapolis where I go every May for the 500. My father was in this in the sport, and so I follow it very closely, and it's just something I do every May. I go for a couple weeks and I really enjoy it. Yeah. And uh, and they have a lot of hay fever in Indiana, and so uh, and it was brutal this this last or and so I know I was piggybacking my trazodone. I I didn't realize it with Benadryl, and and it was helping me sleep, and it was alleviating my pressure, you know, my sinuses issue, but but it wasn't good. And you know, I just I knew I had to stop. And so the last session I had, it was um with CBTI. And again, we're keeping track of my sleep, and we had it in late in the month because we couldn't, for three weeks, she wouldn't want me to meet, and then because it I was out of state and she couldn't lice by license coach meeting. And we had a session on a Friday, and I hung up Beth, and I was like, I don't want to do this anymore because it was just like a calendar report card of like of like, well, what happened this night? And I'm like, I don't know, I couldn't fall asleep. And like, what happened this night? I'm like, I I don't know. You tell me. And I kept just asking her, like, also, I'm I'm on these sleep meds and I feel I want to get off of them. I don't want to become addicted to them, I don't want to take them anymore. And she was just saying, just stay on them, and then we'll wean you off of them eventually. And so I remember that that night that evening, it was late May, and I said, I don't want to do this anymore. Like I'm kind of tired of CBTI. I've been on it for two months plus, and it's not working. We're still going back to basics on the sleep restriction, and that's where we were, and that's when things started to shift for me.

SPEAKER_03: 24:04

Yeah, shift in what way? Shift in terms of moving out of CBTI.

SPEAKER_00: 24:09

Yes, that because I I was just saying, like, this isn't working anymore. Yeah, it's not.

SPEAKER_03: 24:14

You made a decision, like this is not what I want to keep pursuing.

SPEAKER_00: 24:17

Yeah, this is not, it's I'm not this isn't working. And you know, you read all these things, so it's the gold standard, and it's the they always call it the gold standard. Oh, of course, yes. Yeah, and so I remember that Sunday night I was chatting with my dad. I'm like, you know, I don't want to do this anymore. And I go on top of it, dad. I don't like being on these meds. I just don't like it. I I don't it it it makes me feel weird. My vision field is messed up, and I gotta get off of these. I don't want to be doing this anymore. And so that Monday I remember waking up and I just made the determination spiritually as well, that's like today's the day I'm gonna start my healing process. Like today, like now I know that's contrary to, you know, like because you've explained how insomniacs, we we try to fix things, right? Yeah, we try to like we're we're always sort of like, okay, today's the day. So when I was declaring, like, I'm gonna be healed today, it was more of like, I'm gonna just let go of this. I'm really tired. Yeah. Like I'm letting go, which maybe starting the healing. I was gonna just put it, I'm a I'm a person of faith. Um, and so I was like, I'm just gonna put it in God's hands and I'm gonna just do this differently. And I went to lunch, I even took the day off from work, and when I came back from work, I started Googling. And I Googled, and this this person, mind, body, sleep, uh, has this, and the question I remember punching into Google was like, does CBTI work for everyone? Oh, yeah, or or what is you know, what is you know, or whatever. Because I don't because for virus and and and you're starting to feel really like 80% is what it said, and or me I know gosh, like this is this is just perfect, right? For me, like health issues when you go, oh, can you solve this? Like, oh, not for you though, like you know, those like I have an eye issue, and like you know, everybody's like, Oh, can you go get LASIK? I'm like, I can't, and you know, talk to my eye surgeon. He's like, No, not for you. Um, and so I'm like, Well, I guess CBTI is for me, but there was a series that you had, and it or it was a it was an answer to why CBTI may not work for some people, and it was your list, checklist of of why. And every single one of those I identified with like yep, yeah, yep, yeah, it puts more straight, you know. So, so I was like, oh wow, I'm gonna I'm gonna dig a little deeper here. And so I started digging into your website and I saw some of your you know, I think some of the free material, right? Yeah, and I started going through it, and it was like, wow, this is really cool. Like I I it it it really I can tell you about that was the day that the light was shining versus the darkness where I was. It's it started the the the the sun started coming up on that day because I was like, all right, this is pretty cool. I think I'm onto something here with what she's writing about, you know.

SPEAKER_03: 27:33

Oh yeah. I'm so glad you found that. It's really bringing me back to hear you talk about it, Carlos, because well, first of all, I'm just so glad you had that like that surrender process. You know, you woke up and you were like, I'm done with that. I'm gonna do it a different way. And then, you know, I remember when I wrote that blog, I mean, I felt like a little bit nervous writing that blog because that was years ago. And I really felt like I was like going up against the the establishment or something, you know, because it was, you know, and then come to find out like in the years I've been working with people since then, you know, I don't know where they got that 80% statistic because it just can't be right, you know, it just can't be right. And you know, that blog, I I think I wrote the name of it was like I remember thinking this is exactly what I have punched into Google myself. And I want to create a blog to help all the people that think they're like a lost cause because CBTI didn't didn't help them. Um yeah, I'm glad you found it.

SPEAKER_00: 28:34

Yeah, so that that was key. And and then I dove into your, I think I devoured anything that was free in your in your materials, like to the point where so so the one part that was the boom was the aha, was when you talked about how CBTI doesn't address the issue, nor does acupuncture, nor does sleep hygiene, and it doesn't address boom, hyperarousal, yeah, and or the fear of wakefulness. And I I remember texting like a friend of mine, like, I think I discovered it, I think I got it, you know, because that's that's the other thing you're doing in insomnia. I remember having uh a one-on-one with Richard or in a group, the group chat was was he's like, Yeah, everybody's like one little thing away they feel from solving it. And I was like, Oh, I think I solved it here. Yeah. So, and it did because so it was it was about the fear. And as I look back to where I was, you know, as you know, friends told me, like, I think you're you are coming off of a PTSD situation from your last job. You know, you had a lot of fear about the way the legalities of how they would handle things or or go up against you to compete. And and those were real, those were real that I had that was hitting my sleep. And on top of it, then other things started to happen, right? Like, like the health thing with the the the you know the melatonin, and then I didn't have a blood test, and all these things started to really, and I and as I remember back, I I really did there was a lot of fear and other instances where I was like, wow, that was kind of irrational, like that thought process I was having in that time frame. Yeah, you know, yeah, there was just some other things help-wise that were were not related, and I was immediately to the to the catastrophizing, that's the word, right? Yeah. Um so anyway, yeah. So so then what happened? Okay, so then I saw fear. Now, as a strong Christian, one of the things we are spoken about in the Bible is to fear not. And fear is what we there's even Bible verses. There's one that says that God did not give us a spirit of fear. And so when I when I latched on to that, when I saw that fear word, I was like, okay, here's how I'm gonna attempt to let go of this, but I'm not gonna try and sleep. I'm gonna go up against the fear. Like that's what I'm gonna go up against. And I'm gonna use my faith in in prayer and in in trust and all the other things. And there were many times where I was listening to your materials and you and you did talk about trust or you talked about other things. And I was like, okay, this is where I'm going on this. And I think by the end of that week, I had slept like four nights. Like, I don't know, I was like, whoa, I'm on a I'm on a roll here. I had a Saturday night. I remember a good friend came into town and we went and had a dinner and we started later, and he likes to chat, and we we went late, and I didn't get home till like 12:30. And I was like, oh no, this is my sleep is I don't know, you know, it was one of those things. Like I've been I've been doing okay. And then the next day, and I had a insomnia all night again. I did I couldn't fall back to sleep. So that's when I'm like, okay, tomorrow I'm signing up for Beth's training. I'm gonna pay the money and I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna rule and let's let's make this happen. So it was June 9th, I believe. That was the day. Yeah. So anyway, so so going through your program really did it just because you're constantly addressing fear, you're addressing letting go. I remember one time talking to Brian on uh Richard, is it Richard or I'm sorry. Richard, yeah. Richard Richard, uh-huh. That's it. Um and and we were comparing it to a delayed flight.

SPEAKER_03: 32:29

Uh-huh. And I remember, I remember talking to you about it.

SPEAKER_00: 32:32

Because you know, when when you fly, you know, okay, okay, we're gonna leave at at you know noon, and we're gonna get to the big city at eight, and then we're gonna go have dinner at nine, and then we'll get a nice sleep, and then we'll go to, you know, we'll go do our activities tomorrow or for the business meetings, et cetera. Well, what when when those flight delays happen, okay, we're pushed back, we won't be till 5 p.m. leaving. You're now like, oh no, I'm not gonna get into the city till till now late, and we're not gonna be able to have dinner. And now it, you know, it throws you off. And I remember as an early traveler, those used to really frustrate me, like flight delays, you know. Yeah, but but but now as experienced travel, I just go like, well, that's just what happens. So if we're not gonna get into the city till late, we might as well just go grab a bite at the restaurant, right? Read a book or listen to a podcast, and just there's nothing you're gonna be able to do. Your luggage is on the plane, right? So just sit back and enjoy. And when I first had my first one-on-one with you, that was one thing you ended the session was, or you or you asked me and you said, What is it that you can do when you are awake in the middle of the night that you would enjoy? As part of rewiring and and I think you call it you know, friendly wakefulness. Yes. And I remember it's like, oh, there's some podcasts and some other you know, there's a lot of books I can catch up on and and all kinds of things. And so that really changed it for me. And then I also went away, I went timeless. So I, you know, I put that clock radio, I don't know where it is, somewhere behind my bed. And I still do to this day, I I just have my iPhone plugged in close to the bed with the wake-up time at the latest, and that way I don't have to look at the time. And so that kind of changed it. It kind of made it fun. It was like, okay, well, I'm up, I might as well catch up on my podcast, or I'm gonna catch up on on some of my reading. And it wasn't fun, but it it associated, as you've talked about, a positive feeling and not the dread and to to my brain of the the wakefulness. And so that's when it really started to to go. And I and I really started to feel like I was making big progress.

SPEAKER_03: 34:43

Yeah. Yes. Oh, thank you for sharing those gems. And you know, you you've used the mentorship in so many different ways, and uh I've enjoyed the opportunity to work one-on-one with you, you so much. And will you would you mind sharing like your process a little bit? Because I know you were using the podcast as kind of part of your recovery, right? You would listen to yeah. How how did you move through the actual the curriculum or how did you use the mentorship?

SPEAKER_00: 35:14

Yeah, so I um I really enjoyed obviously the one-on-ones with you and with Richard were were just awesome. And it that's that's what I was missing in CBTI. It's like, come on, talk to me. I'm not going crazy here, or how are we doing this? So you that was really the first and foremost, the the comforting. The group calls were were tremendous as well because of the group sessions on Zoom that the Tuesday afternoon ones or daytime ones were great because you have other people that you're hearing where they're coming from.

SPEAKER_02: 35:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 35:47

Um, I'm able to give them feedback of what I see or what I've learned. And then, you know, you or Richard giving feedback to them just built upon the other things. I went through the curriculum as as it came in on the moment my phone pinged on Sundays, I believe, 3 a.m. I didn't go then. Sometimes I was awake though. But um, I did go through your curriculum pretty pretty, you know, on spot and just took it all in. And then the great thing was also listening to these types of podcasts, your own podcast that that you did or or Richard did, or your, but also hearing others who recovered. And I remember one gentleman, he was in a band. I think uh his was pretty good. He talked about his faith. Uh, I think you Austin, I think he's Austin, yeah. Yes, there was another woman from um New Zealand or Australia.

SPEAKER_03: 36:42

Oh, yeah, Gemma. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00: 36:43

Gemma. And she um she was funny and I enjoyed it because she she was just talking about like, oh, I don't know who these 80% of these people are in CBTI. And then I think there was, is it Jennifer or Jenna?

SPEAKER_02: 36:56

Jennifer, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 36:58

Because she had talked about uh and she she was a person of faith, and she was going through this period of time, and then she was freaking out about something with some medication, and she she kind of said, Hey, her husband kind of gave her an aha and said, You're afraid of everything. And remember that one? And that one to me was like, Oh, that's me right now. I'm afraid of everything. And and she shared that she's a person of faith and and not to fear, and that was those were very encouraging. So, so those those were probably the most powerful of the program. And and it really, and then plus on on top of my own faith, and I'm you know very well versed in the Bible and scriptures, and and there's many in there that are calming and promises and comforting. And so I did, I used a lot of what you were sharing, just like the fear, right? But now go into my scriptures that dealt with fear and why not to fear, and we should just trust instead of fearing. And so that's where a lot of that healing happened as well, using the the main theme of the fear.

SPEAKER_03: 38:06

Yeah, I really enjoyed the way you meshed all of that so well to work work for you. And I remember learning a lot from you about the scriptures, and I remember you saying that fear is the most used word in the Bible. Is that something like that? Yeah, I thought that's fear.

SPEAKER_00: 38:25

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So yeah, fear is an enemy, so to speak, of of uh, of our peace that we have and the trust that we have in God. So that that was a big aha for me. And it had been something that, you know, earlier in the year, I remember, I think you and I had talked about, and I said, you know, Beth, I one of the things I wanted to to make some inroads in is that I find myself a very worrisome person. And I wanted to really tackle worry or you know, worst case scenario thinking. And I also some other friends had shared with me through this process what what they've gone through or what they're how they've addressed it by you know, they're a worst case scenario person. And and I'm like, oh, I kind of go there a lot. I do, you know, yeah. I I I switch companies and I'll be homeless in a year, you know, something like that.

SPEAKER_03: 39:19

You know, the homeless story, yes, I'm very familiar with that.

SPEAKER_00: 39:23

You know, and and I and the other thing that was a little challenging during that time of insomnia was because I usually I usually could identify a stressor, right? I've left this job, I was very close to these people, I'm very sad, blah, blah, blah. Or this happened, this and therefore I'm not getting sleep. This one seemed very, I remember my father asking me, like, do you not like your new position? Or is is it not working out at the new company? And I'd be like, No, it's like it's phenomenal. And that's why I can't figure out why I can't sleep right now. Yeah, and so um that that was I didn't realize it was the fear that had kind of crept in there that. was disrupting and created that sleep anxiety.

SPEAKER_03: 40:03

Yeah. Yeah. That's a a really key point because it's it's within and it's there isn't anything to attach it to. So it's hard to to fix it because it's it's it's inside us. It's not outside of us. And that is that is such a key key distinction. So okay we talked a little bit about this right before I hit record, but what is life like now with regards to sleep? I know you said you don't really even think about it too much anymore. And I remember when you were talking about you know you were mentioning like getting the curriculum every week and you used to wait for an Instagram post and you kind of just kind of stopped caring. And I was like that's great. I'm not offended at all.

SPEAKER_02: 40:47

Right.

SPEAKER_03: 40:48

I was like now I know he's really on his way out because he he doesn't care about when the next Instagram post. But tell us more about your life now.

SPEAKER_00: 40:56

Yeah I was as we were mentioning I mean you know I'm now just to the point like it was I still have an active mind. So so maybe I'm not a hundred percent no sleep onset, but I don't have a thought about sort of before even after I had made some huge inroads like was now starting to sleep I I had all my backup measures right I had the podcast ready to go. I had my book ready on the on the over here that I would in case you know had it all geared up on on the side of my bed you know uh I was I was really methodical as far as either maybe some scripture or some some music or so that that could get me to sleep. And I was using those for quite a bit even after um was really starting to even after I I think I got off the program here. I don't need those anymore. I still have them and I think as I mentioned I'm I'm that person that and I think a lot of people wake up at 3 a.m right yeah um I think there's the 3 a.m wakeups I I can give you a dozen people in my life that all share the same thing. I'm usually able to go back to sleep. I have my own, you know, either if something I know is troubling me, I can go to a scripture or I can just pray it through and I usually go back to sleep. I think like I shared with you know Sunday night I woke up with an irrational catastrophe that kept me up for about an hour or an hour and a half and then I just you know realized like whoa this is not rational this is not real and then I managed to get a few more hours or three more hours in. So life is better now. Like it it feels good because it it just was that was a struggle for me. It was it was clearly a time that was dark for me this year. And I've known now how not to attach darkness to it. You know it's just it was just a time but it was I'm glad I'm through it yeah and and you know can you know face the day.

SPEAKER_03: 42:51

Yeah yeah I mean you've had a really it was a difficult it was a difficult season a challenging you know year and a half two years there and now you're on the other side of it and you know life is always changing evolving all of that and I I'm just I'm so glad I'm so glad um I'm so glad I got to be a part of it. And okay I've got one more question for you Carlos.

SPEAKER_00: 43:17

For you I I'm I'm referring all these people now but I don't know if any of them take it because now everybody shares their sleep issues. I'm like oh that's just the sleep disturbance.

SPEAKER_03: 43:26

I know you would talk about that. You I think anyone who's been through the program could almost be a sleep coach and they know so much more than most of the people out there for sure. Okay so I've got one more question. If there was one message that you would want listeners to walk away with today what would that be?

SPEAKER_00: 43:45

I'd say it's it's entangled in the thoughts that you have during the day and the fears that you have during the day come to you at at night. And so what I learned was to to deal with those thoughts as they developed during the day and being wary of my thoughts and my fear and that way it didn't disrupt if I had to look back again I I wouldn't disrupt my sleep as much. And also it's really hard when you're in the midst of it but when I say this to just just let go if if if that could mean anything to anyone and I don't know if that means anything to you Beth but like oh yeah just let go. For me I I'm just I'm you know again I have a faith so you know perfect love casts out fear. So my faith and my love for God and his love for me just gives me that peace. But you know the the times to get rocky and so I have to lean on that. But I would tell people to you know as as much as possible don't don't fear and be wary of your thoughts during the day because they they follow you to bed. You know and I think I shared with you sometime like my my thoughts you know I could have a business issue happen at 11 o'clock a m in the morning on a Friday go to lunch with my colleagues go to an afternoon thing go to dinner at night have some fun see a movie and then wake up with that problem at 2 a.m because I hadn't closed it out in my mental computer from from what had happened at 11, you know? So I'm I'm just be wary of your thoughts and don't let them follow you to bet and try and let go of that fear would be my yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 45:32

Wonderful that's beautiful advice thank you so much Carlos I just I really appreciate you coming on it has been such an honor to work so closely with you and I can't wait to see what you're up to in the in the next year.

SPEAKER_00: 45:47

Likewise and again I don't know where I would have been without googling and finding that blog arousal uh you know not not that I was on the iPhone for an hour before bed or um yeah any of these other things that um didn't watch TV it's just funny but no I I realized you know it's all hyper arousal that is uh and and it just makes so much sense with when friends are telling me like how come while I'm watching TV I'm falling asleep and then I get to bed and I'm wide awake I'm like that's that's called hyper arousal you know now you can explain it you can explain it to them and so that they don't develop insomnia. Yeah it's been a pleasure working with you and I I miss our one-on-one so maybe I should like I think I'm still on the your month to month which you know I probably should still hang around and um but but life is good going into the holidays it's wonderful and and uh it's been a pleasure working with you likewise my friend so for anyone joining us today thank you so much for being here this is the Mind Body Sleep podcast and we'll see you next time bye Carlos I like that happy holidays merry Christmas you as well thanks for being here today if you love what you heard on today's episode don't forget to hit the like button and subscribe to the podcast and if you need more support with your sleep join me in the Mind Body Sleep Mentorship.

SPEAKER_03: 47:13

This three month one on one program will transform your relationship with sleep so you can get back to living the life that you love free from the fear of not sleeping. Head on over to bethkendle calm details I'll see you next time