Recovery On Both Sides: A Mother & Daughter Story Of Healing

A mother and daughter getting sober at the same time sounds inspiring, until you hear what it actually takes: naming the family patterns, setting real boundaries, and staying in the room for the hard conversations. I’m joined by Sherry Young and Julie Hurley to talk about how addiction shows up inside a family system and how recovery becomes possible when we stop performing “fine” and start telling the truth. Their story spans early drinking, blackout shame, high-functioning denial, and the moment consequences finally force clarity.

We dig into rebuilding trust after addiction, what forgiveness does and does not mean, and why emotional connection matters more than perfect parenting. Julie shares what it looks like to be sober while still repeating old patterns, and Sherry reflects on growing up around alcoholism and how that shaped control, safety, and the hunger for attachment. If you’ve ever felt “manageably unmanageable,” this conversation puts language to that experience and offers a path forward grounded in community and humility.

We also talk about the work they do through Right Fit, helping families, therapists, and treatment professionals navigate complex case management, higher levels of care, and the messy reality of crisis. You’ll hear practical guidance for moms who feel lost, including how to get curious, ask for help, and put the oxygen mask on first.

If you find this helpful, subscribe, share the episode with someone who needs hope today, and leave a review so more families can find these recovery stories.

If you or someone you love is struggling with addiction, you don’t have to face it alone.

Valiant Living helps men and their families move from crisis to stability through clinically driven care, community, and hope.

Learn more about our programs at www.valiantliving.com
or call us confidentially at (720) 796-6885 to speak with someone who can help.

Transcript

Welcome And Roundtable Invite

SPEAKER_02 0:09

Welcome back to the Vine Living Podcast. I'm your host, Sue Howell, and today's conversation is a special post-Mother's Day episode featuring Sherry Young and Julie Hurley, a mother and daughter whose recovery journeys happen at the same time. We talk about addiction inside the family system, rebuilding trust, forgiveness, boundaries, and what it looks like to feel both individually and together. We also discuss the work we're doing right now through right fit, collaborative, helping families and professionals navigate complex care and recovery. And before we jump in, I want to invite all of our collective professionals, families, and recovery leaders to join our monthly roundtable discussions every third Thursday at 10 a.m. Mountain time. Um our next one, this podcast is on Wednesday, just tomorrow. Um this Thursday, May 21st. I will be joined with another group of experts. Sherry is actually going to be joining us for a conversation about the future of complex case management. So you can register for that at Valiant Living.com slash roundtable. All right, let's jump into the conversation. Well, let's just jump in and guys, thank you for being on the Valiant Living Podcast.

SPEAKER_01 1:28

Thank you for having us. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:30

I think this is the first, I know it's the first mother-daughter duo that we've ever had on here. Um Julie and I are are newer friends. We got to have dinner together in Colorado not too long ago, thanks to Sherry putting together a great dinner for for some of us. Um Sherry and I, Sherry's been on the podcast before, so thanks for thanks for coming back again. But we we wanted to have a a conversation, not not just because right fit, the organization that you guys lead, is such a great referral uh partner with us, and we just we work so hand in hand on a lot of stuff. We'll talk about that. But just being Mother's Day just happened,

Childhood And Family Backstory

SPEAKER_02 2:10

and in the you know, in the treatment world, and I'll just say from my own personal experience, growing up, it was always about you know, dad and you know, son and father, son and father. But the relationship you have with with the mother is so is so important and so shaping. And you guys have such, in my opinion, an interesting story, and I only know like bits and pieces of it. So um I'm I'm excited to dive in. Take us back, um Sherry. We'll just we'll start with you. Um take us back to Jess, and in you know, I know there's a lot we could tell, but what was what was Julie like as a child growing up? What was it like to raise Julie?

SPEAKER_01 3:06

Yeah, so Julie was my fourth child. And I had three boys before her, and I wanted a girl so badly.

SPEAKER_02 3:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:19

And um, you know, when I had her and realized that she was a girl, um, I, you know, back in the day, this is archaic, only the older moms will understand this. In, you know, in the um, you know, the birthing rooms, they had um a light on the outside of the the door, and they would turn on a pink light for a girl and a blue light for a boy.

SPEAKER_02 3:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 3:47

And they said, Do you want us to turn on the pink light? And I said, No, I just want to sit with this for a minute.

SPEAKER_02 3:54

Oh, that's sweet. That's sweet.

SPEAKER_01 3:56

I was so happy, and they put her on my chest, and I just looked at her and countered her fingers and toes, and you know, just was really grateful to have her. And she was just a really fun little girl.

SPEAKER_02 4:12

Yeah, yeah. Now, Julie, were were you the baby then, or were there more after you?

SPEAKER_00 4:18

I'm the youngest.

SPEAKER_02 4:19

You're the youngest baby of the family. You know, what was that like?

SPEAKER_00 4:22

Two older brothers.

SPEAKER_02 4:23

Okay. What was that like being raised with older brothers?

SPEAKER_00 4:27

It was it was fine. I mean, it was all I knew. And I looked up to them and adored them.

SPEAKER_02 4:33

Yeah, yeah. That's that's awesome. I've I have four kids, and I I often think because my son has two older sisters, and I often think, like, how does that even, you know, shape who he's becoming as a man? And then also, you know, for you having these older brothers, uh, because I grew I grew up all boys, so we didn't know what to do. Girls, my poor mother, she wanted to have a girl so bad, and so 12 years after I was born, she tried again and got another boy. So we're like, sorry, mom, you know, you have to wait for the grandkids. But so I'm gonna fast forward quite a bit because I know there's obviously a lot in y'all's story, a lot we could talk about and reminisce, but I want to I want to talk specifically about how addiction kind of played a role in in your family. So um, before addiction became like a defining part of your story, how would you guys define your relationship? Um and I know that's probably a hard question because you're like, well, what stage of life are you referring to? But just in general, when you look pre-addiction, maybe in the let's let's kind of zoom to maybe some young adult, kind of that age, when you're having an adult relationship. Um what was that like? And and I know you guys haven't talked about it, so I'm curious even just to hear the different perspectives because they might even be different. Let's start with you, Julie.

SPEAKER_00 5:51

Yeah, so I mean the teenage years were tough, but I mean, I um, you know, we had a we had a lot going on in our family, and there was um uh my mother and my father divorced when I was around eight, and then she remarried pretty quickly um after that. So, you know, teenage years were kind of rough, and I had already started you know, drinking and you know, smoking cigarettes kind of you know intermittently. Um but at some point we had kind of, I want to say, like in my 1920, we had kind of developed a I mean, we were always kind of close. We were kind of at odds at in those adolescent years. Um, but I always knew that I I mean, she was my per, you know, she was my person in the family. So even though things were rough, I knew that I could count, you know, count on her. And so if things would fall apart, you know, she would be there. Um, and so we, you know, we kind of started having a nice relationship and and saw each other pretty frequently. And when I was old enough to drink, we would, you know, somebody would bring a bottle of wine and we would sit out and you know, have big glasses of wine and then you were drinking buddies. Yeah, we were. We were.

SPEAKER_02 7:14

Interesting. What age did did the drinking start for you, Julie?

SPEAKER_00 7:18

You said you mentioned that I had my first drink when I was 11.

SPEAKER_02 7:22

Okay. Wow. Yeah, Sherry, what after like you hearing that? What what what what was your experience like?

SPEAKER_01 7:31

So I grew up um in an alcoholic home, and I call it that because my dad was like the biggest thing in that family, and he took up a lot of space. He was a a binge drinker, rageholic, alcoholic. He also traveled for work. So he he was in sales and was vice president of a steel company. And um, so when he was gone, the the home was fairly calm. When he would come in, you never knew what you were gonna get. So I grew up with a lot of instability and then, you know, frankly, a lot of abuse. Um and I dismissed it, you know, I was a pull yourself up by your bootstraps kind of gal. And um I managed that by, you know, many, many, many forms of escape. Um, you know, academics were an escape for me, um, sports, friends, um, nature, uh, you name it.

SPEAKER_02 8:43

Just anything not to have to feel those feelings and kind of run from that pain, it sounds like.

SPEAKER_01 8:48

You know, exactly. And

Early Drinking And Family Patterns

SPEAKER_01 8:50

so, you know, like I really, it wasn't until many years later that I would identify that alcohol had really played a significant role and had impacted my life. And so, you know, the kids' early years, you know, I was a bit of a control freak because I wanted to do it differently than my parents did. So I wanted to save them from everything that I had experienced.

SPEAKER_02 9:24

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 9:25

We we know that's not possible, right?

SPEAKER_02 9:28

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 9:29

And especially a mom who had never dealt with her own stuff yet.

SPEAKER_02 9:34

Right. Well, and it's why so often you guys see this in the work you do, those patterns, if they're not broken, they're just going to be passed down generation. We talked to value guys about that a lot. Like, hey, man, you you're breaking generational cycles here, but it can just go, you know, unattended for so long unless someone points it out, or so, or unfortunately, a lot of times when you guys are dealing with them, they're hit hit a wall, they're crashed at some point. And that's when they finally realize something's not quite right. I mean, when was that for you for you guys where you realize you, you know, we were kind of jokingly, but I know it turned into something a lot more serious talking about being drinking buddies? When was there a moment where you realize, hey, something's not quite right here? Or I'm curious, because I I know you now that you're in recovery, how did it start? How did that who noticed first? Like this is problematic, you know, tell me that side of the story.

SPEAKER_01 10:29

So I'll just start because my last year of drinking, I had um six car accidents, and the first one was pretty significant. I flew off a cliff um a 140 feet in the air in a Miata. And um, you know, I mean, blew out the electrical system on the car, and you know, I was not hurt at all. And I was teaching at a Catholic university, and um there had been an event, and you know, I drank after the event because I kind of sort of knew my pattern. And, you know, so that was the first accident. Then there were five more that year. And actually, I was pretty arrogant about the fact that I could afford to pay for the damage on the car and the increasing insurance payments.

SPEAKER_02 11:25

Really? So you kind of took that as like uh almost um it was an ego thing. I'm good. I can I can afford to it didn't hit you like I could kill myself. It was more like I can I can absorb this.

SPEAKER_01 11:37

Well, and you know, my first meeting was a first step meeting in a 24-hour club um in Dallas, Texas. And I sat there and it was a first step meeting. And, you know, there were quite a few street people in the meeting, and you know, um, you know, I could totally identify with being powerless over alcohol, but when they started talking about, you know, and our lives had become unmanageable, the thought occurred to me that my life is manageably unmanageable. I got these.

SPEAKER_02 12:10

Wow. Yeah. I'm sure there's a lot of people that can relate to that because even as you're talking, you know, and don't want to make this about me, but I'm I'm relating to so much of that. Because I was like, man, I when I look back, I wasn't managing it well, obviously. But in the moment, I'm thinking I've got this, like I can, I'll figure my way through this. I'll, you know, um, but boy, was I was I off on that.

SPEAKER_01 12:39

Well, and I think, Drew, you know, whenever you grow up with adversity, whatever it is, you know, um, it doesn't have to be addiction. Um, it could be a parent who's mentally ill or you know, has medical issues. And so all the focus goes to that parent, whatever it is, you know, um, you go into survival mode, and survival is always unconscious. So I thought I was making rational decisions, right? And it couldn't have been further from the truth.

SPEAKER_02 13:15

Well, it is insanity, like they tell us. I mean, our our brains are not even firing in the right way, we're just in complete insanity.

SPEAKER_01 13:22

And yeah, and when I saw that on the wall in the in the rooms of AA, I I thought, you know, you're saying that I'm insane. I mean, like, you don't know what I'm managing here.

SPEAKER_02 13:39

Well, and especially when a a lot of, and this is not true for everybody, but a lot of the the people that we get to treat at Valiant, a lot of people that you guys are working with, externally, they look great. I mean, people have no idea. I mean, these aren't, you know, people that are necessarily look like the down and out types. They're financially doing well, they're doing well in their careers, their inner world's falling apart, but they've been managing this public image. And sometimes that's the hardest part of getting through to get their help because they're like, well, look around. I'm clearly doing something right. Um, Julia, I'm I'm I'm curious for you, from your standpoint, what when was when was the time for you where you realized, hey, this might be more than just drinking buddies? This might there might be something here that I should pay attention to. So Sherry's off record a car and driving off the bridges cliffs with Miattas. You know, you know, I'm I'm sitting here thinking, Sherry, I know you well enough to joke with you now, but I'm like, six car crashes. I think after two or three, I probably would have been like, maybe I should chill out or at least get a bigger car than a Miata. Those are like little maps.

SPEAKER_01 14:47

In the going gets tough, the tough get going.

SPEAKER_02 14:51

Yeah, well, you were tough. I was no one's gonna, you know, challenge that, but what was it like for you, Julie, in that that period of time?

SPEAKER_00 14:59

Well, so I mean, I I was drinking alcoholically by the time I was 16. So, you know, Sherry, Sherry kept it together. You know, her I I got sober when I was 25. So, some you know, perspective. Um, I, you know, was already drinking alcoholically in in high school, and I'm a blackout drinker, and so that was always problematic for me from the very beginning. It was scary and it was very shameful. You know, I wake up in the morning and friends would say, Oh, you did this, and I just would feel a ton of shame about that, and I wouldn't remember what was happening. And so while I, you know, would hang out with Sherry every once in a while, I mean, I had a whole life outside of that. And I was um, I wasn't, you know, I just had I was in survival mode and you know, trying to make a life for myself. I mean, our family system was, you know, we're gonna provide, you know, the basic necessities like clothing and shelter, um, you know, until a certain period of time and then you're on your own. And, you know, so at 18, I was I I went to college and promptly flunked out. And then I came home and and got a job and started working. Uh and so I just was, I was just managing an addiction from kind of the very beginning.

SPEAKER_02 16:29

Interesting. So you guys had kind of two, sounds like two different experiences a little bit. You've got, you know, and correct me if I'm not hearing this right, but Sherry kind of high functioning. I can handle this,

When Drinking Turns Dangerous

SPEAKER_02 16:40

I can do whatever. But it sounds like from 16, it was it started problematic for you. Sherry, could you tell with Julie that there was something like were you able to see what was going on with her, or was that more of a hidden thing? Did you not know that was happening?

SPEAKER_01 16:55

You know, and it wasn't over, let's put it that way. I mean, you know, I I knew that she struggled from time to time. And I, you know, I I I didn't blame the drinking because I didn't think that was a problem.

SPEAKER_02 17:14

Totally.

SPEAKER_01 17:15

But I got sober at 52. And eight months later, Julie called me and she had been living with a boyfriend and it wasn't working out. And so she said, Mom, can I come and you know stay at your place? And I said, you know, Julie, I I mean, I had remodeled this condo and I had turned the second bedroom into a kind of like an entertainment room. And, you know, it all it had was like a pullout bed in there and music and a baby grand piano and that kind of thing, TV. And she said, I promise you I won't take up much space. And she was working as it, you know, in a restaurant at the time. And um, I said yes. And so after, I don't know, two or three weeks, Julie, maybe just two, um, I just said she was going out after the restaurant and coming in at two and three in the morning. And one day I I mean, I was aware of what was going on, and I just said, I can't do this anymore. I if you want to continue to drink, I need you to move out, and I don't want to know anything about it.

SPEAKER_02 18:31

Interesting. Okay, so this is what I was this is what I was curious about. So, Julie, you're saying I need to I need to come home, I need to get a reset here, but you had just gotten sober, it sounds like Sherry, eight months ago. Did you know, Julie, that she had gotten sober at that point?

SPEAKER_00 18:47

So, about six months prior to that, I had been at a at a bar and their bartender there, I I was talking to him, and he, I think I had offered to buy him a drink or something, and he said, um, I don't drink. And I was completely fascinated with that. And so I ended up, I mean, I was at a bar and he ended up telling me I mean, I was shocked that he didn't drink and he worked in a bar. So and he he ended up, we ended up having a short exchange, and he basically said, I, you know, I go to AA meetings. And and so that stuck. And so from the time, from that time to the time that Sherry started, you know, saying she was gonna go to meetings, I had been doing just a little bit of research because I was kind of coming to an end, the end of my rope too. I mean, it was I was I mean, there were some really scary things that were happening and I was and I was so sick. I was really sick at that point, physically sick.

SPEAKER_02 19:56

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_00 19:57

Pretty much yeah, and and and drinking almost kind of around around the clock. And my lifestyle supported that because I I worked in restaurants and I was I was still so I was drinking around the clock, and then I would get up and I like hardly ever missed a day of work. I mean, that was so it was like I kind of had this weird structure where you know I would have the these responsibilities that I felt like I needed to tend to, and I just would try kind of the similar to Sherry, but you know, much more messy. Um you know, I would soldier up and and get it done, try to keep everything together. Wow. Um so when she asked me when she shared that she had gone to an AA meeting, I was like, oh, which one? Because I had already been kind of scouting out the AAA scene on my own.

SPEAKER_02 20:57

That's wild. So okay, I'm I'm gonna go a little left field, we'll bring it back, but I can be a little bit of a mystic sometimes. So what do you make of this? You both the universe, our higher power, whatever you want to like you you both start gravitating towards recovery sobriety, kind of independent of each other, kind of right. That's what I'm hearing at the same time. Is that coincidence, or do you think there's something bigger at work there?

SPEAKER_00 21:27

Well, I I when she stopped drinking, I couldn't believe it.

SPEAKER_02 21:35

There is a God.

SPEAKER_00 21:38

I was so shocked. And she went through a Thanksgiving at my aunt's house, who's really crazy. She's a nurse. Um, and she stayed sober through that whole event. I mean, it was a nightmare though that week or weekend that we were there, and she didn't drink, and that was you know, that made Made an impression on me because I grew up in an alcoholic home. So she started drinking later, you know, and when she started drinking, it was very alcoholic. Okay. So I knew it was huge.

SPEAKER_02 22:16

Right. Right.

SPEAKER_00 22:18

I know I was it was it made an impression.

SPEAKER_01 22:21

So this is kind of a fun story. So after my first meeting, I said, guess what I did today? And she said, what? I said, I went to an AA meeting. She said, Oh, I've been to some of those. And I said, You have? And she said, Yeah, all my friends from grade school are in that club. And I said, What?

SPEAKER_02 22:41

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 22:43

So I said, but I don't think I can go back to that 24-hour club. And she recommended another meeting, which I went to that second night. And then I called her after that and I said, I don't like that meeting either. Um, do you have another option? And she told me about, you know, this meeting in Dallas off of Preston Road and Highland Park. And she said, Those are your people. She said, and that is, I went to a meeting a day for a year.

SPEAKER_02 23:15

You're kidding me. You hear people talk about 9090 and complain that that's a lot. You did 365 to 365.

SPEAKER_00 23:23

That's and I did three meetings a day for two years.

SPEAKER_02 23:28

You're kidding me, Julie.

SPEAKER_00 23:30

I was terrified. I mean, I was the kind of person that if the the thought of getting something to alter the way I felt entered my mind, it was no stop, you know, don't don't pass go. Like I was at the in Texas, you can buy alcohol um at gas stations. So often I lived probably five miles from the restaurant I worked in, and I would often drive a mile and a half to stop at the gas station, pick up some beer to make it the you know, the next you know, few miles to my house where I'll have more alcohol.

SPEAKER_02 24:14

Yeah. Yeah. Man, I just think it like it serves you guys so well now in your in what you do, that tenacity that you have. Like, and I think that's you know, again, I'm sure there's tons of differences, but the like mother, like daughter, is like both of you, when you decided and you locked in, it was like, we're going all in. There's no other way, we're not gonna tiptoe into this thing, we're not gonna, you know, half-heartedly, no half measures. It was we're going all in. What was that like getting sober? Like, were you guys ever going to meetings together, or was that was that kind of separate pathways? Or what was that like? Was that harder or was it easier, you know, kind of being in the similar stage?

SPEAKER_00 24:57

I mean, I think now it's we've kind of always done life. I mean, it hasn't been, it's been messy and hard and dysfunctional, but we've always done life together. Always. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 25:14

I mean, for me, the first couple weeks that Julie was sober, um, there was a woman in AA who got a hold of her and wanted her to look at all of her family of origin stuff and you know, basically, you know, said that, you know, I was the problem because I didn't protect her. And so, but at that point, you know, I was conscious enough

Boundaries That Change Everything

SPEAKER_01 25:40

that it was just like that just about killed me. It just about broke my heart, the fact that I could have been responsible when I'd worked so hard to try to make things better for her and for all my kids, really. But um recognizing, you know, just I mean, in some ways, the reality of what that woman was talking about, I didn't protect her.

SPEAKER_00 26:11

And Drew, you know, it's been great. So as we've started to work together, you know, we have so I mean, I have teenagers at home currently. I have three girls. And so, and I've been, you know, I've been sober since 1998 and and have worked a pretty strong program. And there were a lot of things that didn't get addressed through my recovery, a lot of the the family of origin, some the stuff that Sherry's referring to. It just we didn't know that there's so much that we know now more about addiction and family systems, and so I mean, I raised my kids sober and and I still continued those patterns. And so, you know, over the last, you know, four or five years, I've been as you know, I've been facing those things within myself. Yeah, and then I've had, you know, this relationship with Sherry, and she's you know, been doing her family system work, and so now we have three generations working together to shift the family system dynamic.

SPEAKER_02 27:29

Incredible. But it I got goosebumps when you're sharing that, Julie, because isn't that what it's all about? Like it it never was about perfection. Like, I think for me, I think struggling with man, I really you never want your kids to see you in any other light besides, oh, that's that's my mom, that's my dad, they're my hero, and they're on this pedestal. And then when I screw up so royally, it's like, oh man, I've just forever changed the way that they're gonna see me or relate to me or whatever. And in some ways, that is true. And in some ways, well, I had a therapist early on when I was dealing with some of the similar shame you're talking about, Sherry. Like, man, I and also what else? What other damage have I caused? I don't even know yet that could come up later. He was just like, hey, you kind of did him a favor because you just showed him it's okay to be human, it's okay to be broken, it's okay to, but it's also okay to work on it and have conversations. Like, I love what you're saying, Julie, because my amends process if in my personality, I like, well, I made amends. I did it. I did my impact letters and my we worked the process. Man, as my kids get older, they need it more. There's more things that come up for them. This is not a one and none, you know. So I I love what you're saying because I actually think that is the better way for all families, and I would even go as far as say recovery, addiction, or not, to face the junk and the dysfunction. And, you know, I have a buddy that says the only difference between a dysfunctional family and a functional family is the dysfunctional ones actually facing the stuff. There's no such thing as a, you know, and I think that's really powerful. What does that what does that look like for you guys as you're as you're digging this stuff up? Because one thing I really honor in both of you is your willingness to even come on a platform like this and talk about it. Because how many, how many, you know, parents and kids would rather just like not remember that any of that stuff happened? So, I mean, you're talking about generational work happening. What is that, what does that stir up in you now? I mean, is that more of like this is a gratitude thing? Are you still wrestling with, you know, I'm just curious of what because I know there's people listening right now that are are really relating to men. I don't even know if I want to go down some of those roads because it feels so sad, so shameful.

SPEAKER_01 29:49

Well, let me just say that watching Julie um parent her children has really been amazing for me because she has done that portion of her life sober. And I did not do that. And um, you know, just I've watched her, you know, deal with them with much more patience than I ever had. Um, you know, she is not the control freak, you know, that I was. I mean, I wanted everything to be perfect and everybody to be okay. And um, you know, I went to great lengths, you know, to try to make that happen. I mean, it didn't happen, and I couldn't relax into the imperfection. I couldn't, you know, relax, I couldn't be okay with, you know, uh so I want to go back because you, you know, during all that time that I was pulling myself up by my bootstraps, there were some shadow moments that I want to talk about. So every day I would get up and I would, you know, having drunk, you know, been drinking the night before, I would look at myself in the mirror and I didn't recognize myself. I had gone away from all of my values. I knew that I had failed in so many areas of my life, even though outwardly I still, you know, looked successful. Um, but I just would say to myself in the mirror, who are you? I think that may have led to me, you know, seeking out that AA meeting that first day.

SPEAKER_02 31:46

Yeah. Powerful. Um I'm gonna throw some curveballs at you guys here because this is just what's coming up for me, and you can you can shoot them down if you want. But I want to hear from both of you, just in Julie, your perspective. What would you say to a parent that's listening who may be struggling with what Sherry just talked about, the shadow stuff, the the shame, the have I have I messed them up, have I, you know, what would you say to them as far as even what you needed and what you what you eventually got from you know?

SPEAKER_00 32:26

Well, I mean, I repeated that pattern. I mean, I was I I was sober, and so I was checking all the boxes. I was you know, making the lunches, going to the bus

Sober At The Same Time

SPEAKER_00 32:40

stop, doing all the parent-teacher conferences, girl scout leader. I was checking all the boxes. And there was a lot of emotional unavailability because I I could not have the feedback. I felt there were a lot there were a lot of misconceptions. You know, there's not a parenting manual, right? And so I, you know, I was raised with, you know, the parent is the author, you know, the authoritative figure and the responsible, you know, you and what my brain did with my experience in an unsafe home was you need to make it a safe home and you need to make a consistent home, but there was nothing in it about attachment and connection. Yes. And so up until I mean that's not true. I don't want to, there was there's some attachment, and you know, we're we're but there was a disconnect in, you know, just like I guess being I don't know how to explain it, and maybe you guys can help me, but like I just felt like I needed to be an authority over all. I needed to be the responsible person over all, and that was going to be the safety mechanism. And I missed the mark on that because what I know now is that that's not true. What the mark is, is the connection. There's no, there's no other way to parent, especially with teenagers, unless you're connected.

SPEAKER_02 34:21

That is so, Julie, that is so good. I mean, I'm about to jump through the screen because I'm just freaking out. Because to me, what you're saying right now is so pivotal to parenting, but also just to all relationships. And because I relate, and I'm sure there are moms listening, but even dads, any parent, it's like, well, I'm doing, I'm providing, I'm making the lunches, I'm driving, I'm doing all the like I'm doing, doing, doing. I'm I'm a good, you know. And at the end of the day, our kids are just saying, I just want connection. I just want to be connected. I want you to be honest, I want you to be emotionally available. And it's not that those other things aren't good and important, but man, at the end of the day, I feel like every child is crying out for emotional connection with their parent. And Sherry, speak to the parent side of it too, from your from your you know, side, because it's like, you know, and how did how did you guys eventually get to that place where there was a there was more emotional connection, or maybe you never lost it, because you said it was always messy and there was always connection.

SPEAKER_00 35:20

Well, Sherry is, and I'm gonna jump in here and then I'll hand it to you. But Sherry is all about connection. And she she has always, I mean, there's been the disconnect about how to achieve that result, but she is connection. That's who she is. And so wow, you know.

SPEAKER_02 35:45

I don't know that there could be a from my angle, a greater compliment from where I'm sitting, as far as man, if my kids would say about say that about me, I would feel like I've I've won. If they're just saying dad, just he was all about connection. I think that's powerful, Sherry. How did that how did that become such a thing for you? Was that a learned behavior or or is that just a natural?

SPEAKER_01 36:08

You know, Drew, I think I was so desperate for it myself. I did not have that growing up. I mean, at eight years old, I looked at my parents and you know, my thought was, who are you? Um, don't need you, don't want you. Like I used to tell myself stories that maybe I was adopted and they never told me that because I didn't see myself as being anything like them.

SPEAKER_02 36:38

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 36:39

And I didn't want to be like them. In fact, I vowed that I would never ever drink because of you know the experience with my father. And then when I was 38, I was in graduate school at a Catholic university and I was converting to Catholicism. And one of my, you know, dear, you know, colleagues in graduate school said, Look, Sherry, if you're gonna be Catholic, you've got to drink. It's a requirement. Wow. And I was in a challenging marriage.

SPEAKER_02 37:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:13

I thought, you know what, just because my dad drank stupidly doesn't mean that I have to. And I opened that door. Wow.

unknown 37:23

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 37:24

And you know, when Julie says connection, you know, I think that was the longing, the deepest longing of my soul. And I couldn't get there. I it's like I can remember feeling I can't get there from here. And it wasn't until sobriety where that became that laid the foundation. Yeah. And you know, honestly, I was so serious and driven about everything in my life. That first year sober, I've got to tell you, I laughed more in those meetings than I ever have in my life.

SPEAKER_02 38:05

That's beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 38:06

And it was just like, I mean, I could laugh at myself and I could hear through what other people were saying, like, oh my God, I did that too. And, you know, and I would never admit to anything. Like I, you know, it was real important for me to look good on the outside.

SPEAKER_02 38:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:26

And every hair in place, every, you know, like everything lined up and, you know, got the I's crossed the T's, and you know, and you know, like Julie, you know, I did the things. And then it was like so empty because I it didn't produce the connection. What I would say to a parent, it, you know, who's listening to this podcast is, you know, you think you're gonna mess your kids up? And the answer is yes, you are. Yeah, we all do, because none of us are perfect. And you know what? The bottom line is you know, the areas where we were my experience where I was the most messed up has been the catalyst for transformation and change.

SPEAKER_00 39:24

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:26

So I look at all of that now. What I didn't get as a kid, you know, that created, you know, the vessel of love.

SPEAKER_02 39:38

Yeah, but you know, yes, and what's also true, just to honor honor you, Sherry, and uh all the other great moms out there, is that your longing and desire for connection, even over perfection, is what I believe is what salvages these relationships, because there's so many people that for whatever reason, whether it's the shame or the sadness or whatever they can't face, they almost go deeper into disconnection as they get older. And the and it just creates this it's it's like this chasm of disconnect. We say all the time recovery, the opposite of addiction, it's not sobriety, but it's it's connection. I was just talking to a gentleman this week at Valiant

Parenting Beyond Perfection

SPEAKER_02 40:20

who said what you just said. He's like, I'm in here two weeks, and he's like, I'm starting to laugh and feel joy. And part of it is because he is surrendering. You know, he's he just we talked about he he's struggling with self-forgiveness. And I just said, brother, what if you can't forgive yourself? What if you have to receive forgiveness from other people and from God? And he was like, Well, I never thought about that. I was like, Yeah, just receive it. He and he got back on the call this week. He said, Man, I just am feeling joy. I don't know. And I'm like, and I feel guilt still, but it's not that it's gone away, but there's there's peace in the middle of that. And I think just honoring you, Sherry, that connection piece, because I think at the end of the day, that's what it's all about. And one last thing I'll say, because I I'm just you got me fired up, so I'm talking too much. But um, I had a conversation with my daughter, my second daughter, just a few weeks ago when I realized she needed more amends. And so we sat down, we had a really beautiful coffee. She's she's my daughter who's always she's never pulled punches. She's always like my impact letter from her was like, whoa, she really let me have it, which is honest, honestly, it was great. But we got and I just said, Man, I just want you to know the the further I get into this, the more sorry and the more sad. Like time is time is healing, but time doesn't make me forget. Like, I'm actually the more sober I get, the more I have more empathy today than I did even in early sobriety. And she said something that was really beautiful that I'll hold on. She was like, you know, dad, you've always been my hero, someone I looked up to. And yes, there was a season where I was angry with you. And but she was like, But I respect you more now than I ever have watching our family fight for health and connection and recovery. And the only reason why I tell that story is, man, I'm I'm flawed in more ways than than most people. It's not to to brag on myself, but it's just to say that at the end of the day, that's what our kids are longing for. They're just longing for you to the parent out there that thinks, man, have I done, have I messed them up? It's like, well, Sherry's point, yeah. And connection. Julie, what's going on for you? I'm curious what your thoughts are on all this.

SPEAKER_00 42:31

Well, and I think for me, you know, I was uh, you know, there's a we we are working a program indep, you know, independently from the system, which is really important, right? And what you're you know, when you're talking when you shared that with that um man at the um at Valiant, um you know, that's important work to to let the community, what Sherry was referring, to a program outside of the system where you know you have a community that's me, you know, modeling and mirroring what that forgiveness and and and recovering from you know our personal journey, our personal wounds. And for me, grieving the the failure, grieving, grieving the idea that I really wanted to do things differently, not only for my own life, right, but especially for my kids. And then forgiving myself. I mean, some of the work in ACA, you know, just really going internally and forgiving the parts of myself that just weren't healed enough to, you know, be. And and that's okay it's okay. It's gonna serve a purpose. I I remember uh my stepdad at one point said. To me, he made a comment about God redeems everything eventually. That's what he said. And I think about that so often because something will happen and I'll feel it. Oh, God is redeeming that right now.

SPEAKER_02 44:16

Yeah. That's beautiful. There's so much hope in that when you say it that way. And I hope that's what people are hearing right now. And you know, a big part of why I wanted to have you guys on is to tell the story because I I knew enough to know that you weren't going to sugarcoat the messiness, but also the hope and what's possible when we're willing to kind of wait out into the mess. And then Julie, to quote you, I hope I'm allowed to say this, but at dinner, you said, if you'd have told me I'd be working in business with my mother, I would have said, There's no way, or maybe Sherry, you said it, but I remember one of you saying, I never saw this coming. But now you guys have this really beautiful, powerful partnership working, helping people in this space in recovery, helping them find health and find connection, all this kind of stuff. Tell me that story. How did that so well and I can link to Sherry your episode, you're on all that, but I want to know the how did the the Julie Sherry power duo come together? Because you said you never saw that happening.

SPEAKER_00 45:20

I think I said that.

SPEAKER_02 45:22

I think that was you, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:23

Yeah, we we talked about it and I I mean I I was gonna make this, you know, I wanted to move into behavioral, I wanted to have a career. I've been in business and it for me just um you know, I just I I'm a make meaning person and I I needed to be more of service. And so I was just kind of waiting until my kids were at a point and then I was gonna make them move. And then we just we started, we talk about things like that, and so that's how that all came to be. Um and really, you know, here's the thing that I I think is that you know, when when we become vulnerable and when we start to do our own work, really Sherry has become the mentor, the mother, you know, the friend that you know, she always wanted to be before, but just didn't have the tools. And so she is now mentoring, not just me, but it Charlie, our other co-part in in on the West Coast, you know, she's mentoring us in how she has learned to do this work over the 20 years that she's been at it.

SPEAKER_02 46:39

Yeah. That's awesome. You know, as you're saying that and Cherry, I want to get your response to that. And I I want to hear about Right Fit and the work that you guys do and the help you're doing. But as Julie was saying that, the thought that I had is I don't know that we'll be able to really tell on this side of heaven the lives that you've touched with what you've done. Like when you talk from a maternal, from a, you know, um, because I think there's a lot of people listening out there that may not have kids, but you can be a mothering voice and a mothering presence uh to people who need it. And you have helped so many people get help over the years. I mean, you you know, you're you're so well respected in this space, but I don't know how it's gonna work, but I hope at some point you get to, you know, there's gonna be a long line of people lined up in heaven wanting to talk to Sherry Young saying, hey, you don't know me, but you know, and and I think about my grandfather, he was a pastor and he never pastored a big church. But I think at one point he had 40 or 50 pastors that came out of his church. And so even though his name was never in the you know, the headlines, I'm like, man, the downline of impact, and I think that's true for you too. Tell us a little bit more about Right Fit and the work you're doing, and and and even how how cool it is to have a full circle to have Julie partnered with you.

SPEAKER_01 48:00

So this work could not have happened. Um, it, you know, Right Fit, you know, certainly it's a company, but it's, you know, it is modeled on the transformative work that you know each of us is doing. And that's why Julie's a part of this, and that's why Charlie is a part of this as well. So here are three women who, you know, just really have surrendered our lives and we want to be all that we can be, you know, to help people. And so as we um, you know, we have the ability to get out of the way, get our own selves, our own opinions, our own agendas out of the way, and sit and truly listen to a mom or heartbroken, you know, couple um as they talk about their kid or you know, a young man who's you know just beside himself because he can't stop looking at porn or you know, um uh, you know, whatever, whatever way that, you know, people are self-medicating and trying to, you know, survive and make it through this life. And so we approach this with you know a lot of grace and empathy and understanding. And, you know, because of the 20 years that I've been doing this work, I've been privileged to, you know, meet um the owners and you know, the people who do the work in multiple treatment centers across the country and incredible

Right Fit And Complex Care Guidance

SPEAKER_01 49:40

therapists. And, you know, um, you know, all of these people have changed my life. And so, you know, constantly they're filling me up, and I get to, you know, it's out of that abundance that I get to give. And so, you know, um I've I have friends who say, well, your work must really be draining. And certainly there are cases that, you know, really are difficult and challenging, and you, you know, you just can't see your way clear initially. But we don't come to it with, you know, ready-made answers. And so we come to explore with a family. And, you know, that to me, and the fact that Julie, you know, my daughter, is working with me in this incredible work, um, is just it's probably the greatest joy of my professional career. And the fact that Julie and I together, working with Charlie, are building a legacy that we hope will continue to serve others, you know, for many generations.

SPEAKER_02 50:51

That's right. It's so much bigger than bigger than ourselves, bigger than one company. And that's what's beautiful about this work. It's, I mean, I think it's our it's our why, isn't it, Julie? I mean, it's why we do this because at the end of the day, it's like this is impacting generations, you know, but long after our name's forgotten. International family system generation. Julie, what gets you when you think about right fit and just the future of of the company and what you guys get to do? What what kind of fires you up today? What what what gets you out of bed and gets you going in this work?

SPEAKER_00 51:22

Well, it's it's the it's the husband of the wife that I talked to a couple days ago, and he's he's he was addressing some things in his life, and now and he's looking for his wife to start addressing those things, and they have a 15-month-old baby. And you know, I I heard the story, and they're they're trying to change the trajectory of their family system. And so for me, you know, being on this side, and it's not perfect, you know. I mean, I have I have you know, three young, you know, young women in my home. It's not perfect. And I'm not perfect. Yeah, but I have, you know, there's a baseline to operate from. There is a different way where there's not, you know, this family was like, so the the the cue for the woman was that, you know, when it things got really hard, she would have a lot of suicide uh suicide ideation. And she was she just thought I this is she had the higher thought. This is this doesn't feel right to me. I don't want to be having this response to these issues, and so you know, and then taking that and doing something about it, and then for me to be a part of resourcing for this family that's trying to change the trajectory of their behaviors and ways they've been coping. What there's no greater honor in it for me.

SPEAKER_02 52:58

Incredible. Well, talk to the so talk to the people. So we got a lot of different we've got alumni all the way to other treatment providers to CSAT. I mean, the people that listen to this podcast, it's a pretty wide scope of people. So talk to the the people and the families that that you best serve. Like who who are you looking and who are you wanting to get phone calls from? Is it from because I know you're a great partner for treatment centers like Valiant? Like that's a you've been an incredible partner for us, um, and helping us find the people that we can best serve. And you're really good at knowing, hey, this is a valiant guy. Like Valiant, this is they'll do good work with with, you know, and so that's a big part of what you do is help people find the right spot. But um who's best to to reach out in the call? Do you have families that call? Are they therapists? Help me understand kind of that part of your your work.

SPEAKER_01 53:55

Yeah, so um we work um a lot with therapists. Um uh you know, the therapists often will share um our number, you know, with um their clients or with their staff. And when they're you know staffing um and one of the, you know, one of the staff members brings up a family issue, you know, the therapist that knows us would say, let me give you a number and call them. And, you know, I've I've been doing this so long. I have therapists give people my number and say, call her and do what she says. And you know, that's just such an honor. I mean, like, oh gosh.

SPEAKER_02 54:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:40

And it's a sacred honor, you know, Drew. It's not something I take for granted. Um, I every day I continue to do my own work. I, you know, I live in gratitude and I um, you know, I'm willing to face the hard things in my life. And um, and that's what these parents are doing. Yeah, yeah. So in some ways, we get to model what transformation looks like if we're not too afraid and have to push whatever this problem is away from us. Right. If we can pull it in and say, why are you here and what gift do you have to offer us?

SPEAKER_02 55:30

Sure. That's so well said. And I I think one thing that I I love about how you guys work is it's it's so high touch and high like the communication. And so it's like, I think the reason why you've you've got such a great name in the space is that therapists know when they call you, you're gonna be able to serve that client in the in the best way, but you're also they're gonna be a part of it. Like, this is not a hey, hand them to us and we'll take like you keep them in in communication. A lot of times they'll go to treatment, but then they come right back into therapy. They just needed a higher level of care for a season. But talk about that, the importance of making sure that all the parties, like you do it with Valiant on the treatment center side, but also on the therapist CSAT side, you are walking very closely um with them, from what I can tell. Talk about that relationship a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 56:23

Do you want to talk about that, Julie? Um, no, go ahead. Well, you know, I think that um uh once again, I think, you know, we don't share our entire stories at all, but you know, when parents are, you know, uh dysregulated and don't know what to do and confused and you know, frustrated because they they can't give they can't give the answer to their you know son or daughter. Um, you know, I think, you know, just being vulnerable and showing up as someone who couldn't do that either. Right?

SPEAKER_00 57:04

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 57:05

And and the fact of the matter is, is that you know, that parent or those parents made that call. So what from this call, you know, you know, can begin to change things for you, yeah, yeah. As well as your child.

unknown 57:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:26

And it's a journey too. I mean, I think, you know, that you know, so many people are looking for something immediate, right? I mean, especially when we're in crisis. And I've been in crisis. I've been in crisis personally with family. I've been um, you know, I've been witnessed to crisis and it's you know, people are afraid. Um, so I mean, one of the things that I really love about doing this work is that I I didn't really have anybody many times other than you know, Sherry and then some of the people that I have in recovery walking alongside me. But, you know, they're they're just there's not a lot of resources out there when you are in crisis that will walk alongside you. And so just having, you know, somebody that to bounce ideas off of. And I mean, ultimately, families have to make decisions for themselves. They have to do what's right for their family, they know themselves better than we know them. Um, I mean, sometimes they don't see the problem as clearly. Um, and it's and it's a journey. It's a journey. So any, you know, any step, there's no perfect way to do things, just making a start. And you if if it's not the right step, if it's not the right fit, you can pivot and and try something else, reach out again, ask for help again. It's a journey.

SPEAKER_02 59:01

Yeah. See what you did there. I like that work working the name into the that was good. I was good. I was like, I was on my marketing brain. I was like, man, she did a good job working the name in. That was awesome. Well, and to your point, I I just know in my story, I needed a guide. I had no idea. I didn't even know I was an addict. I had no idea. And it wasn't until I got to an intervention where they told me I needed to go to treatment. And that was a that was the furthest thing from my mind. What would I go to treatment for? Like, what I had I had no context for any of this stuff. And if I didn't have guides in my life walking me through, like, yeah, you need to go. Here's where you need to go. I mean, I'm just so thankful I had those people. And if because I wouldn't even have known where to turn. I wouldn't even

Advice For Moms And Closing

SPEAKER_02 59:40

have the first, I would never have called up Valiant and be like, hey, I need to come check myself in and spend 90 days. Like that was the furthest thing from my mind. Well, before I let you guys go and thank you again for this, I mean, it's just incredible. All of this has been so good. I I want you to talk to just kind of circle them back. I want you to talk to the moms out there. Just if if you had one kind of final word, um just those moms that maybe have a child who's struggling with addiction right now and don't know where to turn, don't know what to do. Um, or maybe it's a mom who's in it themselves. They're just like, man, I'm trying to raise kids. I got young ones at home. And um, I'm just curious, what what what uh what would you leave with them today? You both look at each other like, who wants to go first? Julie, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:31

I would say um take take care of yourself. I mean, I think for me, and I'm I'm still I'm a cute I this is an acute problem for me, is that I'm really learning to put the oxygen mask on first. I'm such, you know, I'm my first instinct is to take care of them. And and what I'm you know, learning to do better, just like I have done in my recovery journey, is to take care of myself and to not be afraid to ask myself, what works for me? What works for me, what doesn't work for me.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:08

Right, right. That's great, Sherry.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:10

And then to take you back on that, I would just say get curious and you know, talk to your friends, talk to, you know, you know, make an appointment, talk to a therapist or a pastor, you know, anybody, you know, where you can be vulnerable and say, you know, right now what what I've been doing is not working. Um, I'm lost. And I think there's a big ear in the universe. And when we say those words, it's like, oh, okay. So here's this path and then that path, and this person and that opportunity. And they just all begin to come together. But we have to say it first. We have to, you know, know it in our being. As long as, you know, we're, you know, the final court of appeals, as long as we're the ones who think we have the answers, I think God sits back and says, okay, let's see how that works for you.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:21

Well, thanks for listening to this episode of the Vanny Living Podcast. And a special thank you to you, Sherry Young, and Julie Hurley, for sharing your story with such honesty and vulnerability. And if this conversation encouraged you, share it with someone who might need it today. And don't forget that tomorrow is our monthly roundtable discussions every third Thursday at 10 a.m. out of time this Thursday, May 21st. Sherry will be joining us along with some other leading experts for a conversation on the future of complex case management. You can learn more and register at VenightLiving.com slash roundtable. Make sure to subscribe, leave us review, follow along for more conversations about healing, recovery, and restoring families. All right, we'll see you next time.