Effective Communication for Strengthening Relationships with guest Joni Woods

Our guest Joni Woods is a relationship and communication coach whose work helps individuals and couples build healthier relationships, communicate more effectively, and create lives that feel balanced, intentional, and sustainable. How we communicate at home, at work, and with ourselves, directly affects how we manage our time, energy, and overall well-being. Joni shares her personal journey of being "burned" from a unhealthy relationship and how she used that experience to teach her to set boundaries and create better communication strategies.

Joni's book Burned, Blocked, and Better than Ever is available in paperback on Amazon and other retailers, and also as an Ebook.

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Want more resources? The Leverage Your Time Balance Your Life book is available on Amazon! Visit www.leverageyourtimebook.com to order the book, read the blog, and listen to the podcast.

Discover more about Dr. Walker HERE and Wende HERE

Transcript

Wende 0:00

Today, we welcome communication and relationship coach Johnny Woods to the podcast. We're so excited to have Johnny teach us about how to have healthier communication. A lot of Johnny's expertise came directly out of her story of communicating poorly. So we're always using what we've learned from our own experiences to grow and to teach others, and that's exactly what Johnny has done and has done well. And we are going to give you some of her best tips on communicating clearly and without conflict today.

John 0:40

All right, here we go. Leverage your time, balance your life. Dr. Walker and my delightful daughter, Wendy Whitis.

Wende 0:50

Hey Dad, it's good to be with you again this week. And guess what?

John 0:55

We've got a great guest all the way from Michigan, right? Wow, man.

SPEAKER_03 1:00

How's the weather in Michigan right now, Johnny? Uh, well, we don't have snow anymore, but it changes on a dime. I could have snow tonight.

Wende 1:10

Well, we're here to welcome Johnny Woods. I'm so excited to talk about this topic. We have had so many topics around life balance and all of the productivity tools, but I don't think we've ever had one dedicated to communication skills.

John 1:26

It's gonna be great. I'm glad to hear it.

Wende 1:28

Yes. So Johnny is a relationship coach and communication coach. And so I'm just going to leave it very basic at that because I want to hear from you, Johnny. Tell us like your origin story, how you got involved in being a coach like this.

SPEAKER_03 1:44

Um, so I was a youth and young adult pastor for almost 20 years, and I loved um being a part of people's lives and like, you know, because they they when they're going through something, they obviously seek out their pastors, you know, they trust you with their most vulnerable moments. And I felt honored. But as I got a divorce, that role obviously switched. And so I was like, how can I still help people? How can I still be in someone's life and provide them with tangible takeaways, you know? And so the biggest catalyst for me in the relationship and communications space was after I got a divorce in 2016. Um, it was a very contentious divorce. It was a rough co-parenting relationship. Nobody taught me how to co-parent. I just, I was like, you know, and I just I the whole idea of co-parenting and what that could look like was beyond me. You know, my my parents were divorced and it was hostile from the the start. They didn't even say each other's names. Like it was terrible. And so that's what I learned. That's what I saw. That's, you know, once I moved in with my father, I never saw my mother. Once I moved in with my mother, I never saw my father. So it was just like, and that's all I knew. And for me, because the divorce, because the marriage was so toxic and abusive, I was good to be like, okay, we're done. Let's just cut this tie. Let's just cut this tie. Um, but I didn't realize how bad that was. What an unfortunate choice that was. Um, because we don't talk about it, and it was kind of in the height of the cancel culture. So, like, if someone does something bad, you're like, cut them out, cancel culture, you know, he's been canceled, all that kind of stuff. So it it fell in line with what everyone was saying, but it still didn't work. And that was the problem. It didn't work. And um unfortunately, my ex-husband passed away in August of 2020. So when he died, we were back in court because there was abusive situations going on in the in the household. But all the relationships that I had spent 15 years, because we were married for 15 years with his parents, with his brother, with his side of the family, all of those relationships had gone to completely to the wayside. There was nothing left. You know, I didn't talk to any of them. And that was an another part of the grief process is I lost a family that I had had for 15 years.

Wende 4:32

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 4:33

And so when my ex-husband passed, obviously it was, I was, I didn't know what the future would look like, but I sent text messages to my my former sister-in-law, to his mother, to his stepmother, and I said, You guys are more than welcome to come into my home, see the children, you know, hug on them. They just lost their father. You just lost your son, you just lost your brother. You like this is the time for family. And um, only one responded.

Wende 5:05

Oh my goodness. Wow.

SPEAKER_03 5:07

Um, yeah, it was terrible. The stepmother, she didn't know the extent of the like situation within our household while we were married. But um as soon as I messaged her, she came that day. I hadn't seen her in four years, but she came for the kids. She came to hug the kids, to love the kids. And she obviously saw that olive branch, and we immediately reconnected. Um, but his his immediate family, his mother in particular, and his brother in particular, um, they didn't hear from them. They didn't, they didn't hear from them. And it was so sudden when he passed that obviously plans weren't ready. It took a couple of weeks before funeral arrangements were, and in that time, my kids, obviously grieving, they they looked at me and said, What did we do wrong?

Wende 5:57

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_03 5:58

Oh, uh, my son was 11. Um yes. No, uh, he would have been 12, and my daughter was eight.

SPEAKER_02 6:06

Yeah. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_03 6:08

Right. So at that age, they have no idea, they have no concept of that. And I just remember thinking, I screwed up. I s it was, it was me and my kids were paying the price because I didn't prioritize building some sort of co-parenting relationship. I don't know what it would have looked like. Hindsight is 2020. You know, like I don't know what it would have looked like, but it had to, it most definitely would have been better than what my kids were going through. You know, even if there was some tension, I at least I think his family would have felt safe to come into my home. But because the relationship was so broken down, because there was so much anger and bitterness and spewing of stuff, um, that they're just I don't know. We've never actually really sat down and had that final conversation because I mean it got it got pretty ugly. Um, they ended up, I was gonna go to the funeral. Well, it's my children, they're you know, my daughter's eight. I want to be there on one of the worst days of their lives, and they wouldn't let me come. They had to get injunction against me. So guys, yeah, they went to the court, they had an emergency injunction, they wouldn't let me come. They ended up, but they forced the children to go without me. And my sister-in-law ended up having to come in on the day of the funeral, come in and take my daughter off her bed. And I was just like, wow, we are traumatizing these children.

Wende 7:43

Dark.

SPEAKER_03 7:44

This is so much more than needed to be. And yeah, I mean, I wanna like it it's easy to tell the story and you know, be like, those people were terrible, but the foundation was built because I didn't know how to communicate. I didn't know how to even approach some sort of relationship with my ex-husband, with his family, anything like that. Like I said, I just went and because of that, my kids paid the price. They really did. And that for me was the biggest catalyst for me to say, all right, guys, we have to figure this out. We have to do better, not for us, not so that we can be like, oh yeah, I tried, but for our kids, you know, so they aren't paying our prices anymore. Like that for me is just like we got we gotta figure it out.

Wende 8:37

So this traumatic event became a catalyst for aha, there's gotta be a better way. There's gotta be a better way to communicate in a loving way, even in difficult times.

SPEAKER_03 8:50

Yes.

Wende 8:50

So tell me about that. How did that transition transpire over the uh the course of the years since then?

SPEAKER_03 8:59

The years since. Um a lot of it started um in the home. Um, because you know after obviously the funeral happened, um there was about five months where they we didn't have a relationship with that family, that side of the family. And they took me to court. They were trying to have parental rights with the kids, and I was like, sorry guys, like I mean, I'm I'm willing to have conversations. They wouldn't even talk to me. Like they, my attorney had to get involved. And the day of the court meeting, it was in January. So my ex-husband died in the end of August. They missed all of Christmas, they missed my son's birthday, they missed Halloween, they missed all of these events. And the morning of the court date, their attorney finally was like, Listen, guys, you're not gonna get 50% custody. Like, your best bet right now is to work with her. She's their mother. And at that point, um, I was living in Illinois, and my family where I grew up is in Canada. So that's why I moved to Ann Arbor so that I could be so close to them, so I could go visit. And as soon as my ex-husband passed, I was like, we're out, like I'm gone, I'm moving back to my family. And so they had already told them that. So it was the morning of the court date, and their attorney had them tucked in a private room, just talking them through. You these are your options. You know, you can ask for a relationship, you can ask for time with the kids, you can do this, or you can continue to fight and lose everything.

Wende 10:33

And so how does transition go from your personal story to like what you do now? How do you help other people avoid what you went through?

SPEAKER_03 10:44

I tell these stories. Yep. I can literally tell these stories because I mean, thankfully, six years later, we have a great relationship with their family. We just over the last October, we went down and saw um my nephew get married, and the kids danced with their cousins, they hung out with their grandparents. Um, but it takes time. It takes and it takes emotional intelligence, that whole soft skills that people don't want to do, that self-awareness, that self-reflection, and that accountability. Because for me, I could easily have said they made my life terrible. But at the end of the day, I knew that when I went, that was on me.

Wende 11:25

I shouldn't have done that. So taking that taking that ownership of like ownership. It's so, and it's so true. It's everyone has had this. It's like, it's their fault, it's their faults. They're the ones to blame. I did nothing wrong, but we all have to take accountability for our part in it. Yeah.

John 11:42

So that's really nice. So to take responsibility for that. A lot of people wouldn't do that. And that is so kind and gentle. You have a good, gentle, kind heart to do that. And to learn and want to teach other people, way to go.

Wende 12:00

I've always said that well that our best uh advice that we can give to others comes from the heart school of hard knocks that we've gone through ourselves, right? So when we have something that, you know, it's making lemonade out of lemons, and we've had we've all had something in our past that we can either use to be the excuse for, well, I'm you know, bitter and I'm not gonna do that anymore, or we can take that and go, oh, let's learn from this, and then let's teach others to avoid this. So yeah, tell me some of this stuff. How did you what did you learn that you now teach other people so that they can avoid some of the uh or not even avoid that, but like how can we just let's spin it positive. How can we communicate better?

SPEAKER_03 12:48

Um, I think I think our biggest deterrent in healthy communication is our pride, is our ego. Um, and when you employ um emotional intelligence and when you become accountable, you're no longer you don't get to hold on to that ego anymore because suddenly you you recognize the part you played. And thankfully, that means, okay, listen, I played a part and I know you played a part. I could sit here and nag on your part, fine. But what I'm going to do is I'm going to apologize for my part. So I'm going to show up.

John 13:25

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_03 13:26

I'm going to be accountable.

John 13:27

Man, that is so good. Very few people would do that, Wendy. That's right.

SPEAKER_03 13:32

It's hard. Let me tell you, it's not easy.

John 13:35

No, it's not easy. And to give up that pride is so difficult. And for people to admit, for us to admit that we made a mistake or we were part of the mistake, is so difficult for most people to do. It's very difficult for me to do uh to admit that I made a mistake. That's tough.

Wende 13:57

Right. So step one, admit you you have a part, at least a part, and apologize for your role. Right.

SPEAKER_03 14:04

Yeah.

Wende 14:05

Good.

SPEAKER_03 14:05

Yeah. I think um next. Well, once you start that, I think it builds that psychological safety for someone to come in and own their part. Because we're so used to the cancel culture. So if someone admits to making a mistake, they're just like, oh, okay, oh gosh, okay, I'm ready, I'm ready for my punishment. Whereas instead, if you go in first and say, I recognize my mistake, here I am apologetic. I am so sorry. Let's create this psychological safety so you can come in. And if they do or do not, I mean, from what I have seen, it takes a little bit longer for people to trust that process. Um, for me, I'm like, you can either use my mistake against me or I can own it, and we can, you know, because the uh people come in and they're already on the attack. And so they're already getting ready to list out my five different faults. And if I'm like, okay, here are my five faults. I'm so sorry, I'm apologetic. They're they're kind of taken aback, they just don't even know what to do with that.

John 15:10

And Wendy, we talked about this before, but a lot of times when we admit that we make a mistake, when we become transparent, when we become vulnerable, that takes away all the power from the other people in a way so that they can't attack you because you are so you know, belly up, so you know, they can't attack you. So by showing your vulnerability, that gives you a lot of strength in communication, and I think it gives you grace, and for me, that's what accountability it's accountability should be less scary and more like just like thank you.

SPEAKER_03 16:01

Thank you for giving me grace in my mistakes, because I'm not perfect. I'm still trying, I'm still trying to figure it out, I still dance the lines and whatever. And that's what I hope as I work through this, um, you know, in in the company aspect of it, um, that people start to give more grace to, oh, okay, you are you recognize that you made a mistake. I get that. I make mistakes all the time, you know, like it's just that we're all human kind of aspect.

Wende 16:32

Sure.

John 16:33

And to bring it uh the Christian's perspective, when we admit to God or to others that we made a mistake, that we are a sinner, that is the beginning of restoration. When we admit that we were at fault in some way, if we are prideful, we are never gonna be able to communicate well with others or communicate with God. So to surrender ourselves and say, look, I made a mistake, that is the first step of increasing communication with God or with our fellow man.

Wende 17:13

Yeah. Well, what's next, Johnny? What's uh what's another communication tip that you have for us?

SPEAKER_03 17:23

Um I think after accountability, I think the next step from what I've learned and also practiced in my own is um admitting admitting hurts or fears. Um I I do a lot more work in the corporate space because um when people get to me in their relationships, they need therapy. Like they need marriage counseling, they need like I was like, listen, I don't need to be at the end of your journey. I needed to be at the beginning of your journey. The end of your journey, you need like a counselor, you need a therapist. Um so I go into the corporate space. And for me in particular, uh, even in my daily job. So my relationship and communication communication coaching is like my side gig right now. But um, as a manager, when I have to talk to other people in leadership who have out of frustration or anger or a bad day, I'm an easy target and they say something to me that they shouldn't say. Um, not only do I have to recognize, okay, I see where they're at, but for effective communication and relationship building, I have to say it to them in a way where they get to show up. And in particular, that happened. Um, it was a Sunday brunch. I was the manager, and my chef was super just really angry, was having a bad day, and he made some really hurtful comments to me. And I just I walked away and then I sat down, and all I said was, You hurt my feelings today. And he immediately apologized. Like I didn't insult him, I didn't say you're a terrible person, you shouldn't work at this job, blah, blah, blah. I didn't go into all that litigation. I didn't attack back.

John 19:11

You used I statements, I instead of you statements. You didn't say you hurt my feelings, you said I got my feelings hurt, right? The big difference, right?

SPEAKER_03 19:23

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think I did say you, but I did say it's right.

John 19:31

It was uh couched in a way that uh it was not attack, it wasn't attack. Yeah, she didn't attack back. I did not attack back.

SPEAKER_03 19:40

And and it was it was a phenomenal experience because the rest of my like management staff, they you know, they saw me, I was upset. He had really hurt my feelings, and so like tears are in my eyes, and they were like, we're just gonna, you know, beat him up and blah, blah, blah. I mean, it would, it would have been really easy to get that mob mentality. Yeah, oh, he's terrible. Like this is just an example, blah, blah, blah. And I didn't. I just I shot him that text message. I said, You really hurt my feelings. I said, I was wanting to come up and talk to you about the day so we could make it better for next time. And he immediately sent back an apology. And then he came and found me. And he came and the office cleared out, and we we talked first about my feelings, and he was like, You're so strong. And you know, he was just being, and I was like, Thank you. I appreciate the apology. And then we moved on, you know, like we didn't have to hold this over his head. He showed up. And I think that's the other thing in communication that we don't do is we don't give the people the ability to show up when we say, Hey, this happened. Can you provide an answer? Instead, what we do is we shut down and we start to separate from that relationship. When if you communicate, if you say those couple lines, you don't have to insult the person. You don't have to go after their character or their who they are as a person. You just have to communicate, my feelings were hurt. Um, and it gives them the opportunity to show up in the way that they want to show up. They don't want to hurt your feelings, they just are having a bad day and they took it out on you, you know, like so. It's just that you have to be okay with sharing where you're at. And yeah, there are some people who will gaslight you and turn it around. And then at that point, you go, okay, well, there's a boundary here. I'm no longer going to allow you into my personal space, my personal headspace. Um, but for those who show up and make it right, then you're like, oh, I can trust you a little bit more. That relationship builds. Yes.

Wende 21:47

I want to ask about that. Let's let's talk about boundaries. How how do you determine? Because I know you know, I think a lot about boundaries and healthy relationships and versus toxic relationships and how to tell the difference. Um how do you gauge? Is it something that you you feel or is it certain lines? Do you have like, I won't let this line be crossed, especially with your background and what you went through with your ex? Um, how do you determine when someone, or let's say, how do you set boundaries and keep them? Let's just leave it at that.

SPEAKER_03 22:21

Um, it was a lot of trial and error, I'll be honest. Um, because I had been in um the religious space and at pastor for so long, my circle was very small. Like it's just one of those things as pastors, you don't have a lot of friendships. Um we're just kind of told to isolate. So once I got a divorce, um, I I was just experimenting with everything. Like I was going out, I was dating, I was meeting new people. I trusted everybody. I was probably the naive kid on the block that you like, you're like, wait a second. No, what are you doing? Come back. You know, like if I were out right now and I saw me, I'd be like, oh, she's in trouble.

Wende 23:04

Yeah, the sandbox was way too big.

SPEAKER_03 23:06

Yeah, it's too big. You you were diving in way too deep. Um, but so I learned through trial and error. And my biggest thing was being able to learn how to just communicate. I didn't do it well at first, like, you know, the the one conflict that I had with a chef, that was me after six years of figuring out, okay, I'm not gonna attack their character, I'm not gonna do all of this. But at the beginning, it was just like boom, boom, boom, like I'd come in really hot. Um, and I learned that that didn't work. And it, yeah, it set boundaries, but it didn't set boundaries that sat well with me because I I look at boundaries as you have a house, you have this beautiful yard that you work hard at, and you have this beautiful picket fence, and you have this beautiful path. So you have literally shown people how to come into your home nicely, right? You know, you set those boundaries, it's beautiful. And if you don't do that, then you have people walking across your grass and you have people kicking the rocks all the way up, and you have people like they park on in the driveway and then they go, you know, like it's just sure all of those kind of things. But if you set boundaries in how you communicate, you set up this perfect little thing that makes you feel safe as they come and they knock on your door. And that's how I look at boundaries, but it took me a long time to get there.

Wende 24:29

Like I like that, yeah, I like that analogy because you um, you know, you don't just invite someone, uh stranger from the street directly into your home. You first usually meet them where they are, right? You're meeting someone new, you're you meet them in the street. Then you might invite them to come enjoy the garden, and then you might open the door, but they have to prove themselves first, right? Exactly. This is a person worthy of being inside the circle, so to speak. Yeah, yeah, that's a great analogy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:06

So that's how um I did that's how I communicate boundaries now. Now, to get there, I had a lot more people storm the door than I should have allowed. Yeah. So I learn, but I also in that learned that I didn't want to build brick walls around, you know, exactly. I didn't want to make it so impossible to come into my home to know that I have something to give, but I I have to be able to give it in a way that you're not gonna suck my house dry, you know. Right.

Wende 25:37

Yeah.

John 25:37

Let's back up a little bit. I want to know how you teach this to the corporate world. What you I wanted to know your three key points or whatever when you say um when I say I want you to give me a talk on communication, what are the three or four things you're gonna cover?

SPEAKER_03 25:54

Yeah. Um, a first thing I cover is we all see the world differently. So I talk about the lenses. Um, for me, I I know that I carry probably nine or ten different lenses on my face from my childhood experiences to the pastoring to um my house burned down in 2023, so there's a lot of trauma in there. You know, like so I understand, you know, like I understand trauma. I understand that it skews how you see things, how how you interpret information, how you take it in, and how you speak it. And so that's point number one. I always talk about if you recognize, you know, like if you got a divorce and it was you, you pursued the divorce, and you're you suddenly feel free. You're great. You this is a whole new world. But if you got a divorce and someone divorced you, you're suddenly feeling, oh, I like I can't trust people. What happened? I don't know, and like it hit me out of the corner.

John 26:57

Is it sort of like uh stepping back and you've got all these different lenses, but you step back and evaluate that from a perspective outside of yourself? Is that what you're saying? Yeah, you learn to evaluate your perspective as if you were on the outside looking in. Yep. Is that the first step?

SPEAKER_03 27:20

Okay, that's the first step. I think you have to recognize that your life, um, your life really changes how you see the world, how you take in information. And then it also, so that's how you take in information, and then how you communicate also comes out of that. You know, if you're triggered and you don't recognize that there's a trigger happening, you're communicating thinking, oh no, everything's like I'm totally in the right here, but you may not be in the right. You are living out of a past experience, and you need to come into the current experience, take the past away and talk and communicate in the current because that's the only way. Yeah, because people can't heal your trauma, you know, like someone that you just met who has triggered you, they're gonna be like, What is going on with this person? They don't know your past, they don't know your lens. Exactly. And so, you know, know you know how you take in information and know how you communicate information. Those are steps one and step two. And then step three for me is learning just to communicate.

Wende 28:31

Like meaning, meaning what? Like the nuts and bolts communication, or are there certain that's the accountability.

SPEAKER_03 28:40

So um, my the book that like really kind of um shaped everything was uh nonviolent communication or nonviolent effective communication. Um I can't I can't remember his name, but it's like a whole book, and he talks about asking questions. You ask questions instead of making statements, and that's how you communicate. You don't make statements, you ask questions. Um and then when you're able to do that, you can start to understand their perspective and then really lean into what's most important to you.

John 29:13

So once you're it's a reiterate, what you do is you find out your perspective, and then through questioning, you find out the other person's perspective, and that enables both of you to communicate better because you've gotten rid of the dark glasses in your vision, I guess. Yeah. So the so you question, you find out where that guy's coming from, or that person, then what do you do? Then what's next?

SPEAKER_03 29:43

Well, then I think that's where you can uh show more grace in having those conversations. Um, because if you're getting someone else's perspective, then you can realize, okay, one, they're living out of, you know, or they're responding out of past habits that follow us everywhere. They're responding out of past trauma, they are learning how to assert themselves because we're all in this process of growth. I mean, I think most of us are. Some of us are pretty stubborn, but um, most of us, I think, are in a process of growth. Like, how do we see things become better? And in doing so, you're asking questions and then you're repeating. So this is what I hear. Like this is you said something to me. This is what I'm accurate. Right. Yeah.

Wende 30:34

Is this right? Is that resonant?

SPEAKER_03 30:37

Is that what you're trying to say to me? And I learned that one through therapy, but two, um, my ex-husband, whenever we would argue, he would come at me and he'd like just badger me with questions and questions and questions. And I'm answering question number five, six, seven ago, and he's wanting, and he's taking that answer and applying it to questions, the newest question he's asked. And I'm like, I you need to give me a break. Like, give me a second to catch up with everything that you're asking. And my head is just spinning. And so for me, that's I want to give people space because I know in my head it's like a Rolodex. You gotta find the right answer. And I and I remember in the marriage just feeling so defeated, he would use that against me, and he would call me a liar because one answer didn't match up with the other. And I was like, I'm not lying, but I just I can't keep up with what you're saying to me. And so knowing that side of it, for me, I try to explain to people that's why you have to give space. That's why you have to pause, that's why you can't come in all hot and heavy because you don't know what that other person's thinking. You have to give them time to express.

Wende 31:57

So exactly. That's that's me. I always describe myself as a slow processor. It takes me a while to like take in information, let it jiggle around in my brain for a bit, and then I have a somewhat coherent response. But if it takes me to evaluate everything right on the spot, so but that's part of it, right? Knowing about yourself, knowing about your learning about being a student of your own lens, how you see the world, and then asking good questions so that you can understand how the person you're communicating with sees may see the world differently. I love this. This is great. Um, it reminds me of uh seek first to understand, not be understood. Stephen Covey, maybe right now Stephen Cubby, yeah.

John 32:46

So reflect back on what you heard to be sure to clarify that and then what do you do? Giving that grace and space for respond.

Wende 32:57

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_03 32:58

Yeah, so I think after that, then that that's where I think people's internal self comes out. So if they've reflected back and they stand firm in a belief that doesn't match with yours, you're like, okay, clarity. You know, we we see the world two different ways. Do I want to spend my time convincing you that your way is wrong and my way is right? Or do we want to find a commonality where our relationship can either grow or we can say, uh, you know, like maybe we're not for each other.

John 33:34

Maybe exactly that I understand what you're doing. So what I'd like to hear from you is an elevator pitch. Give me a give me, okay, if I'm gonna hire you. Okay, I want to hire you, or you want to sell me to, you know, you want to you want me to buy your business. Tell me, give me your elevator pitch. What do you do?

SPEAKER_03 34:06

Um, my elevator pitch. I cannot promise that I will fix the relationships in your business, but what I can promise is that I will help your people find their voice, and they will decide for themselves if they are gonna fight to stay or if they're going to decide this isn't the right place for me.

John 34:28

Great. All right, good. So you're gonna come to my business and you're gonna help me to communicate better with my employees by understanding them better. Right. Okay. That's awesome. Okay, good. So that's good.

Wende 34:43

Before we wrap up, I'd love to hear about your book because you have a new book that you published in in October. Right. I did. Tell us all about that.

John 34:52

Yeah, I need to read that book. I'm only excited. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:55

Please do read it and write a review.

unknown 34:58

Right.

SPEAKER_03 35:00

Um, yeah, it's um so how I got to my journey, it is kind of the memoir of what happened during the divorce. So I was writing it during 2016, 2017. Just um for me to one of the biggest therapy things that I learned was I need to write everything down. Like that's how I clear my thoughts out. I have to write everything down. So I was writing and writing and writing.

John 35:26

Right. Yeah, you're writing everything down.

SPEAKER_03 35:31

That's that's how I think and speak the best. And so I was doing that during the divorce, and all of the things that happen with divorce, you know, the people that offered their opinions that I didn't need or want, and then um, you know, anchoring down on why I was choosing to make this choice that, you know, in the Christian faith definitely was not acceptable. Um, and writing it down so that I had clarity. I needed clarity and I needed to um have alignment with what I wanted for the rest of my life. So I wrote the book, but then I put it on the back shelf. And as I started my business, everyone's like, you need a book. You need, and I was like, I got one of those. I can sell that one next. And um, but when they I took it to the publishers, they said, we need more context of why getting a divorce was such a big deal. And in that space, I was able to really start to recognize that I kept living up to everyone else's expectations. Like that for me was my entire conflict in life. I wanted to be loved and be respected and be seen in this space, but it wasn't in alignment with who I was made to be. And it just, I was constantly feeling like I'm never going to achieve what I know is inside of me, the spark that I know makes me come alive, everything when I get passionate. The the these expectations that my parents put on me because that's who they wanted me to be when I was like, I'm but I'm so much more than that. And I and having to take those steps to become that person came at all at a big cost. I lost relationships with my family, lost, you know, like there's just when you're trying to become an independent, not an independent, but a self-aware person. Grow into who you actually are, other than the expectations that others put on you. You know that so that's the story of the book is recognizing what was expectation and where I wanted to move from that into who I am. And it was through a series, just everything, my childhood, what that looked like. Um I moved from my dad to my mom, and then I moved to the pastoring school, then I moved to my ex-husband. And it was just constantly trying to hit those expectations and failing every time.

John 38:15

And well, I wouldn't say failing, growing every time. Growing every time. You have a lot of growth. You know, what's the name of your book?

SPEAKER_03 38:23

Uh burned, blocked, and better than ever.

John 38:26

Yes.

Wende 38:27

Which I know burned, blocked, and better than ever. We're gonna Oh, I like that. Yeah, I do too. I love that. Yeah, I like that stuff. I like alliteration, as you know. Um, we're gonna put that link on our show notes so that people can find it. Amazon, I'm assuming, is one way. And Barnes Noble. Barnes and Noble as well. Good reads, Ingram Spark, all of those. All of it. Grandfather. Okay, that's so fun. You and I are gonna have to have a conversation offline about the book publishing um experience. So happy to help.

John 39:03

Oh, well, that's great. This is really good.

Wende 39:06

What did we leave out? What is what's one one more nugget that you want people to take away from this conversation?

SPEAKER_03 39:13

Um, one more nugget.

John 39:17

Be yourself.

SPEAKER_03 39:19

I know. For me, um, everyone asks like who I am now. The biggest growth out of all of those choices was I decided, I watched my ex-husband drown himself in bitterness and anger, and he drank himself to death essentially. And that was one of the reasons I left because I was just like, I trauma happens, life happens, crap happens, crap happens to you. But I still want to be someone who shows up in love and kindness. That's just it. And so you get to pick who you want to be, and then you get to choose it every day. And yeah, it it stinks because and I I I tell people I'm like, these aren't tests, these aren't tests. I'm not going through tests, I'm going through affirmations of who I want to be. Affirmations of showing up in loving kindness in the midst of the big things and the little things. When my house burns down, I'm not gonna freak out on people, you know, like it's just you get to choose who you want to be and you get to do it every day. And it's so it's it's rewarding in it.

John 40:32

You're such a loving, I love kind and good person. You're such a loving person. I'm in love with you. I mean, you because you've got a good soul, you've got a good spirit, and that's what we're trying to do. We're trying to to show our soul, show our spirit to other people, and you've got a wonderful loving spirit, and not many people are able to be as vulnerable as you've been able to do, and you've suffered a lot, you've suffered more than most people have suffered, and you've come through stronger and more kind, more loving to yourself, more loving to other people. So you're just a wonderful person.

Wende 41:22

Thank you. You're choosing it every day. I love that, and and helping other people get there too.

John 41:29

So Johnny, thank you. And thank you for you've been an inspiration to both of us, and thank you so much for what you've taught us. And I'm looking forward to reading your book and learning more about you. Wow, so you're gonna talk to her some more. Won't you tell me what else she teaches?

Wende 41:47

Hey, we'll do. Johnny, thank you so much. It's Johnny Woods. She's been with us on Leverage Your Time, Balance Your Life, and we're just so grateful to have you. Thanks.