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The LBX Collective aims to inform and educate, create opportunities to connect with industry peers, and to spur collaboration, discourse, and cross-pollination of ideas in the location-based entertainment and experience industry.
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LBX Collective
The LBX Show #23 - Trends, Tariffs, Redemption, and more!
Sponsored by Intercard!
On this week's episode, Brandon Willey and friends examine how venues are transforming to meet changing consumer demands and economic realities.
We open with a fascinating look at Holey Mackerel, a mini golf destination that has brilliantly evolved into one of Milwaukee's premier cocktail destinations. This case study highlights how operators are fighting seasonality by creating complementary experiences that drive year-round revenue—a strategy worth considering for any venue facing similar challenges.
Kevin Williams joins BW to analyze recent openings and closings across the global LBE landscape, revealing surprising trends in competitive socializing. From Immersive Gamebox installations at resorts to cinema chains like B&B Theatres allocating significant real estate for entertainment offerings, we're seeing traditional venues reimagine their spaces to create diverse revenue streams. However, as Kevin notes, the "throw everything at the wall" approach taken by some venues rarely succeeds—successful entertainment spaces require thoughtful curation and clear demographic targeting.
Arcade expert Adam Pratt tackles the challenging topic of tariffs and inflation, offering practical strategies for operators. Rather than automatically raising prices, he suggests leveraging "inflation-proof" marketing for retro games while recognizing the concept of "indirect income"—how certain attractions might not be direct moneymakers but drive customers to more profitable offerings.
The episode culminates with Justin Michaels sharing invaluable insights on redemption program success. His five expert tips cover everything from optimal space allocation to the psychology of prizes, revealing that redemption is "more about psychology than retail." Particularly fascinating is his observation that high-ticket items rarely redeemed still drive significant revenue by motivating customers to play more, even if they ultimately cash in for smaller prizes.
Discover these strategies and more by joining our growing community of industry professionals at LBXGalaxy.com, where the conversation continues beyond each episode.
Tuning you in. Now to the LBX Show with your host, brandon Wilde, brought to you by the LBX Collective, your community to connect, engage and inspire.
Speaker 2:All right, well, welcome everybody to the LBX show number 23 for April 6th 2025. I'm your host, brandon Wiley, and we have a great show lined up for you today. We're going to start off this time with the latest openings and closings on Open and Shut, with Kevin Williams and myself, and join him, and we get to talk about some of the top openings, some of the top closings and some insights to be learned from those. We get to talk about some of the top openings, some of the top closings and some insights to be learned from those. But then also we're going to hear from Adam Pratt on Arcade Corner, who touches on the impacts of tariffs in the latest arcade and video game news. And then we're finally going to wrap up with a guest gab with special guest Justin Michaels, and we're going to discuss the topic of redemption and we're also excited to be making this into a recurring segment going forward. It may not be every week, but we're going to have Justin Michaels back on in his own segment yet to be named, yet to be announced, but very excited to have him on. And all right, well, before we get started on all that, let's dive into some news you should know. All right.
Speaker 2:So for those of you who have been watching, the last couple of weeks I've been talking about the LBX Academy and the focus on the LBX Academy this time around is to really show up to basically help grow revenue from group events, and so we have some of the topics we're going to be talking about and some of the speakers we're going to have here are we're excited about this. So, first of all, I'll be doing some of the conversation around sales, crms, sales technologies, sales operations, some marketing technologies. We'll cover that in one of the last days this is April 14th to the 16th in Dallas at the Andretti Carding in the Colony. And then we're also going to Beth Stanley, who is an author of People Buy From People. If you've been in this industry at all, you know she's the founder and former CEO of Train Entertainment and she's now the chairman of the Growth Pro Group. So so excited to have her come on and really walk us through a lot of amazing topics and then say them fine, he is the co-author of Nobody Cares Until you Do. He's also an operator with Esports, virtual Arenas it's called EVA and he's the president of initial franchising as well. So great, powerful lineup of speakers. Very excited to have them on board and we're going to have some great conversation. Some of the things we're going to learn are how to build a group sales engine, streamline digital bookings, how to upsell and add on and create a thriving event culture, and this isn't just big group events or corporate events, this is also school events, this is also birthday parties, basically how to just drive a really strong, healthy group events business and a number of other things. So again, that is April 14th to the 16th at Andretti Carding at the Colony in Dallas, texas, and you can go and sign up, get more information at lbxacademycom or, if you're watching this, you can just scan this QR code. So that is a little bit about the LBX Academy and so a couple of other things here. So, first of all, I thought this one was really interesting and hat tip to Kevin Williams for bringing this up to my attention.
Speaker 2:But basically, florida International University and also the California Institute of the Arts, also known as CalArts, are announcing the establishment of a program called DREAMS, which is the Digital Research, entertainment Arts Media Storytelling. So that's what DREAMS stands for Digital Research, entertainment, arts Media Storytelling Initiative. And this is done in both these two coastal cities, right? So Miami in Florida International University and then California Institute of the Arts. This is done from a generous gift from the Dolan Family Foundation, from Tom Dolan, but the whole idea behind this thing is to prepare students for what they call dynamic careers in the rapidly growing industry of location-based entertainment. So this is one of the first programs specifically targeted at LBE. There are already a number of programs around hospitality and attraction management and other things, like Rosen College in Florida, et cetera, but this one is specifically focused on LBE and the creation of unique immersive experiences designed to entertain and educate visitors. So it's one of the few out there. And they say that this is basically paid student internships. So this program will have paid student internships where students can gain practical experience leading companies in immersive technologies and entertainment, but then also a student venture fund that will bring interested students together to learn how to pitch their ideas, develop business plans and secure startup capital to bring their visions to the creative industries. And then they have a new micro-credential programs to equip students with targeted industry relevant skills by broadening access to CalArts education programs. So, anyway, just seems like a cool thing and I just love the fact that LBE is and location-based experiences, entertainment, are getting big enough and gaining enough awareness that there's actually now programs that are out there. So if you have students or, potentially, if you have employees who are looking to learn more about how to really get involved in this type of business and industry, well now there are two programs at both CalArts and FIU, florida International University, that have this as part of the DREAMS program, so you can learn more about that online by just doing a Dreams research, google search.
Speaker 2:So, all right, this is Holy Mackerel. Now, I've talked about Holy Mackerel before, but in a slightly different context. But Holy Mackerel of all things is just this mini golf destination family fun center. It was opened in August of 23. They took over an old, aging mini space and, uh, some owners did, and so they, but they officially opened. Um, this is where river Hills family fund center used to be, in the Milwaukee suburb of Greenfield. So this is in Milwaukee, wisconsin. It's in a suburb called the Greenfield and, um, you know, basically was, uh, you know, basically ran for 15 years, but it had to close during COVID or whatever, but it was again known as River Hills Family Fun Center.
Speaker 2:So the owner and operator of a cocktail bar and restaurant called Lost Whale in Milwaukee. His name is Tripper Duvall and he acquired the property basically back a couple of years ago after he noticed just a general shortage of mini golf options in and around Milwaukee, and so his first focus was just to rebuild the uh, the mini golf course. So I've got an example of that here on the screen. So just to rebuild the mini golf course. You know, look, it's a pretty standard mini golf course with some you know, your standard outdoor greens. It's obviously seasonal, um but uh.
Speaker 2:Once they had done that, he began to uh, you began to repair some batting cages, he removed graffiti and did some landscaping and made some improvements on the water features all that good stuff. But also they began to renovate the clubhouse and they tried to lean heavily on the arcade elements. Most of the space was just allocated games and other novelties for kids, and then the bar was being finished. But they first just started offering domestic beer and craft beers, and that was pretty much the case until late last year when they finally began to take the next step, and this is when I actually talked about them.
Speaker 2:This last fall, holy Mackerel announced Sip and Shanty, which is a seasonal pop-up concept that blended the cozy ice shanty feel with inventive cocktails and eclectic food offerings. And so, uh, they finished the bar and then, um, you know, began to, uh, they began to just focus on this cocktail food experience. And then they introduced their short fin food truck, which is parked outside the business, and, um, you know, short fins are apparently the type of fish that, uh, mac, or the type of squid the mackerel eat, so it's like a type of a little little food source for mackerels. That's why they call it short fin, which I thought was cool. Um, but anyway, they really began to transform the clubhouse into eventually, uh, greenfield's best cocktail bar. So this guy's a mixologist, he is a restaurant owner and operator, he bought this mini golf place and he had this grand vision eventually to turn it into the Milwaukee's best cocktail bar, and so now you can go in and you can get a different cocktail.
Speaker 2:Some are called, like O'Doyle, rules from Billy Madison, you know, which is a playful nod to Billy Madison. You know, here's an example of, like some of the, they removed a lot of the games and added more seating. They they'd outplay movies and videos and other things up there and kind of again have this retro, almost quasi-mid-century modern feel to the inside and the colorings. But now here's some of the drinks, right? So they are now doing things like Papa Shot, which was the sage mode. They're also doing a riff on the rusty nail called the Rusty Augur, and then they also have a classic grasshopper drink, and so, anyway, they've come from being, you know, basically a mini golf venue to now being a one of the top cocktail bars in the area. Okay, so why do I bring this up? I bring this up because this is something that, uh, you know, like they were just an average run of the mill mini golf course, but now they're getting coverage as somebody who has quality F and B granted through a food truck, but then high-end cocktails that are going to draw people to just have a more of a social atmosphere, while then but also creates a level of anti-seasonality, right. So the mini golf, the batting cage, is all seasonal. You now have a cocktail bar and a restaurant that are going to drive people in, even during their closed months and then especially during their open months, which we're just coming now into as well. So, anyway, that's a little bit about Holy Mackerel, and we will keep an eye on those guys as they continue to innovate in the F&B side of things. All right.
Speaker 2:Last thing I want to talk about is Oxygen at Media City. So Oxygen is a we'll call them a giant adventure park, fun park et cetera active play primarily and they're mostly a brand that's based in and around the UK. Their latest location, oxygen at Media City, is opened up in February at Salford, uk, and they have 24 trampolines, a mega airbag, super inflatable park, a whole interactive strike arena, ropes course, et cetera, like a bunch of stuff that you'll see here. The reason I bring these guys up and we're going to take a quick little video here it's about 50 seconds, we'll watch here in a minute but the reason I bring them up is before you even get into the trampoline park, which, if you're not watching this and you're just listening to this, I highly recommend either you watch this little piece or you go and Google oxygen at media city because, first of all, the coloring and the branding and everything else done in this place is highly themed and is really really well done.
Speaker 2:But in order to even get in, you travel through Oxygen's three immersive worlds.
Speaker 2:So first you journey through the Down Undies, which is keeping an eye out for Mrs Fartay before traveling to Meadow Leatherland.
Speaker 2:And you have to tread carefully to avoid the custard and use animated lemons and fried eggs to cross the digital river. And then you finally explore, visit the jungle fever tree house, where they'll feed their way through the canopy, and search for insects. And finally, at the end of all those worlds, visitors enter their excite tunnel, which gets you all excited, running through this tunnel into then the big open area at OpenPlay and I just thought that was a really interesting approach to you know, they could have just done the standard trampoline park and venture park and just open it all up. You walk in, you do your little check-in and you go right into it. Instead, they really drive people through these immersive experiences and add that an extra flavor and differentiation to what they're doing. So again, just ways to think about how do you differentiate what it is that you're doing from the standard model that's out there? So, without further ado, let's take a quick look at this. We'll take a quick look here at what they're doing and then we'll come back to everything else so.
Speaker 2:All right. Well, that's Oxygen, and I highly recommend if you were just listening to that, to go check them out. I mean, this is just a way to differentiate. Everything is top notch, very well done, and I highly recommend that you take a look at what they're doing and think about how you can differentiate yourself. So, all right, that being said, let's dive into, let's wrap up, and then we'll get into some great new openings and closings, as I join Kevin Williams to chat a little bit more. And manufactured all under one roof, they introduced cashless technology to the amusement industry and have been leading the way for over 30 years. Cashless systems from Intercard increase customer spending, guest satisfaction and boost revenues by up to 30%. Intercard is so proud to be serving the amusement industry and if you aren't already part of their global family of customers, they hope you will become one soon.
Speaker 5:Hey, a big hello to Open and Shut. I hope we find you well and we've got a lot to cover again. But in the new format we're going to deal with the mainstays of the trends, of the new openings and go into greater detail. But we'll jump straight in with our friends at Centre Parcs. We've talked about a previous Centre Parcs in Europe adding an amusement component, and now we're talking about the UK, one of the many UK Centre Parcs facilities that's adding a new attraction. They're actually adding a competitive socialising component and our friends at Immersive Gamebox have installed a number of their game boxes into this particular facility. Regional park environment now pivoting and adding an entertainment component above the traditional light amusement that these sites normally have.
Speaker 2:This to me seems like a good place for an immersive Gamebox experience. We've seen some struggles that they've had at location-based entertainment FECs. They've had at location-based entertainment FECs, but it seems like this is a good just add-on experience to a resort stay. They will often add arcades and maybe some mini bowling and some other things that try to add in to just increase the guest satisfaction while they're there staying at the resort and this just seems like a good like hey, we've got an extra hour this afternoon before we go and have our massage, let's go and do some immersive game box. And so it seems like a good play for these guys.
Speaker 5:It should be a good fit. Again, it depends on how Centerparts promotes this. As you say, this kind of seems to be a convenience next door to the bowling kind of approach. Moving on and we have the addition of competitive socialising onto a what I would really call a live entertainment and pub or bar environment. But this is in the UK so it's more of a kind of pub publican environment. It's a very large venue and they've decided to add a 5,000 square entertainment facility on that will be able to handle about 250 guests. So it kind of gives you the idea of the grouping.
Speaker 5:It is very traditional in its approach and I'm beginning to see that where some of the additions of competitive socializing are not going for gamified products, some of the additions of competitive socializing are not going for gamified products but they're going for really the basics or what we would call the traditional old factory style of interactive. So they have the interactive shuffleboard, they have the darts, you know they even have American pool tables, but they also have some technology. They have karaoke, some technology, they have karaoke, and I wouldn't be surprised that the darts that they will actually have in the facility will be interactive, as in digital scoring. But again an interesting addition of competitive socializing into an already existing venue. I should have called this a redevelopment.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I'll just pull. If you don't mind, I'll just pull their setup here. But this is the nitty gritty for Flux and Big Penny Social. And yeah, they do have it. Looks like there's the karaoke mentioned, the classic old school pool. It doesn't look like they intend to make the shuffleboard and darts interactive. It doesn't look like it from the picture that you had there and from the pictures I saw like it just looks like regular dartboards in the background. But they are saying that they're interactive. So maybe they have a mix of both interactive and and traditional darts as well. But the booking prices aren't bad, Right, so it's ten dollars.
Speaker 5:But it's part of an existing venue, so you know they're using it as a hook or as a secondary revenue section. Some of those interactive darts are actually quite basic in the fauna around the dartboard. It's actually hidden away on the touchscreen system. So again, I would need to. Next time I'm in London I will stick my head into this particular facility and give a shout out and then, continuing with the redevelopment conception, you know we are now seeing a considerable rollout of hospitality venues, now adding a secondary component.
Speaker 5:We've seen this now at the hotel. I talked about that previously regarding the Disney and Universal properties. So we have Las Vegas's Treasure Island Casino Resort. They are now going to be adding the Cove here, 5,000 square, and this one's pretty traditional. It's an addition to their entertainment offering. So you know I think they've gone in there and they've cleaned up their site and offered something a little special. And then in Orlando, new Universal Resort hotels for the Epic Universe expansion. They've now revealed that the Terra Luna is going to have an amusement, virtual reality and entertainment space for family entertainment, developed by a family entertainment group. I couldn't get any decent photographs of this one. Again, this sounds like a job for Orlando when we're out there for IALPA. But again, the hotel industry is definitely embracing, adding some entertainment value to their mix now.
Speaker 2:I'll just say let's hope that the FEG does better than the group that put together the amusement space, the arcade space, for Disney's latest Orlando resort. Yeah, the Swan venue.
Speaker 5:We've we've had a chance to see actual photographs of that particular venue and it did not enthrall, but oh yeah, whatever, whatever Carrying on regarding the other new openings, and you know, it's interesting to see a old name reappear. For me, the Speed Zone brand was quite popular back in the 90s. A number of venues Then they went away, were acquired and they became boomers. Now we're seeing the appearance of the Speed Zone Fun Park brand again now through our friends at Five Star Entertainment, and I get the feeling this is a rebranding of a site that they have taken control of, and I'm getting the feeling that we're going to see the Speed Zone brand reappear as part of their empire, reappear as part of their empire.
Speaker 5:Five Star Entertainment are one of the many companies that are actively expanding their operation through M&A activities and also trying to establish a unique brand for themselves. And then we go to adding a little bit of entertainment. We've talked about the hotel and the resort market doing that. But we also have the cinetainment, the cinema sector, and, as we're recording this, um cinecon, cinema con has just ended in las vegas some interesting news about cinetainment developments through all of the major theater brands, one of those that has really established a name for themselves, with their own unique entertainment mix to their cinema business is B&B Theatres. They have about 58 facilities out there and a large number of those sites have quite a considerable entertainment area, more than just an area there.
Speaker 5:And a large number of those sites have quite a considerable entertainment area, more than just an area they. They have a dedicated space. So, for example, here they've actually dedicated about 7,000 square for their 75 amusement pieces pickleball courts, 10, 10 lanes of tenpin bowling I'm not sure if they're tenpin bowling or string bowling, I didn't check on that one and Nebraska is an interesting market to go for because there aren't that many what I would say high-level FECs there, or really the competitive socializing bug hasn't drilled itself into this particular sector as fully. So this brand new opening, which will throw its doors open in May, should have the market to itself for a period of time, and I think that's part of the joy that B&B has seen out of running their entertainment spaces. If they put the energy in, then they get the long duration of the people coming to see the films as well as enjoying the entertainment of the F&B.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I find what's fascinating about this specifically B&B theaters and this announcement that they're renovating and creating more cinematainment models is that it's actually now begun to hit the public awareness. So I was actually just driving to work today, you know, to the office, and heard on NPR a piece actually where they had the CEO of B&B Theaters come on and talk about his shift to the cinematainment model and why they're doing that, and so it's just. It's now become much more mainstream than it has been. We've been talking about this for years.
Speaker 2:Right, I mean, this has not been a new evolution. In fact, we've had models like Fat Cats and Synergy and Cinemateam and Evo doing these new built Cinemateam models from the ground up. But we're now beginning to see classic theater chains like B&B and Regal and AMC making these changes to their model in order to have the same issue that everybody else who has a single attraction model that they're dealing with and especially with a guest draw that you don't control and that is a Hollywood and what they produce Is that going to get guests in your door? If you have bowling, you're less reliant on the studios to continue to create good content that will drive guests in.
Speaker 5:Did they use the entertainment term in the?
Speaker 2:NPR piece. They did Well. The CEO of B&B did, oh wow, so they, you know. But again, like you know, he's clearly from the industry, so he's using that term, but it's now, like I said, now out there more in the mainstream than I have yet heard it be at this point.
Speaker 5:We should have copyrighted it when we used it first. Yeah, we the Stinger report's been using the term cinetainment from the 90s, so it's. You know it's taken a while for it to drop NATO, the organization behind the theater. The movie theater industry, I know, was not particularly happy with that because it felt that they were dabbling into a market that they didn't really want to get involved with. But now it is inevitable and our coverage of cinema con in the stinger report we go into a little bit more of the nitty-gritty of why it is a fight for survival for the cinema industry to. You know, some of them aren't even putting the entertainment in their foyers. What they're actually doing is that there is now available real estate next door to their cinema venues and they're actually buying that and knocking through a walkway to allow people to have the entertainment space and then the cinema space, allowing them to close down the cinema space but still keep the entertainment going. But we can talk about that at another time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and just real quick, because there's another announcement. I don't know if this is how new this is, but this is another announcement that the CEO made, which is you know, by the way, you know is is that the national association of theater owners is now trend has now changed their name to cinema United. Again, this may have been a brand new announcement, but here is the you know the new. When I go to the national association of dude, here is a cinema United and then that's Michael O'Leary, who's the, you know, the CEO and president, but also involved.
Speaker 2:So I hadn't heard that one You're, you're hearing it here first, thank you, yeah, well, I mean again, I just heard it this morning driving in, so it was probably a late breaking announcement and may not have even been announced officially before. Uh, before that news.
Speaker 5:I'm surprised they wouldn't have made a key announcement at uh uh at cinema. Yeah, I mean wonder what's going on. We'll have to do some digging into that one, I'm sure. Oh God, let's hope they're not suddenly going to try and own the cinema sin attainment branding after all those years of denying it.
Speaker 2:Now I do not see cinema attainment or sin attainment anywhere on their site so far it doesn't. That doesn't mean that they're not going to try to embrace that. I mean, especially when you have Michael Leary, who's the Cinema United president, talking about the change in the industry.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I'm sure some expensive consultants are going to be called in on that one.
Speaker 5:The Light is a UK boutique cinema chain and they are known like B&B for their comfortable seating system, their food, boutique dining capabilities while watching a film and now a growing component of entertainment being added to their theatres.
Speaker 5:And Delight had signed a deal with one of the competitive socialising companies out there to help populate their spaces, and the first one that benefits from that is in Huddersfield, north of the country, 70,000 square. So I assume that that's roping in the theater as well as the entertainment space, but there is a dedicated. It's a full, dedicated competitive socializing environment, or mixed use leisure entertainment space, as I would like to call it. It's got ax throwing, it's got shuffleboards, it's got bowling, it's got AR darts, it's got indoor climbing, rope courses, karaoke and even laser tag, which is an unusual one for the UK. We don't have that many venues that drop in laser tag, but this is quite a considerable rollout for them. It is interesting that they would go to this level and I perceive oh, I forgot the Midigolf. I would perceive that this is the beginning of the light both positioning themselves as a major player not just in the cinema, boutique, cinema sector, but also now as a competitive socializing company.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the struggle I have with this one is that it seems like they're trying to be everything for everybody. You know, they've literally grabbed every single attraction you could imagine and thrown it. Yeah, they're throwing spaghetti at the wall and, look, it looks nice enough. I mean at least from the video that we were just showing here on the screen. But then they have young kids on climbing walls, they have adults who are doing competitive socializing and they have ropes courses, and yet they have pool and shuffleboard and it's this big mix and I don't know that they're going to be ultimately successful with one or the other demographic, because they're trying to approach both demographics. It seems to be like they're trying to be everything for everybody, again, as I said, and we don't typically see that work out well.
Speaker 5:No, it ends in tears. So a mule doesn't mean that you put everything in the bowl and throw it at the wall. A mule, a mixed-use leisure entertainment facility, it at the wall. A mule, mixed-use leisure entertainment facility should have a narrative, a path, and you can support two age groups but or age groupings, but you have to have a very strong layout, an operational model, to be able to do that.
Speaker 5:And I'm not seeing it with a number of these sites that seem to have just gone through the menu of what's available in the market and said, yes, we'll have one of everything, please, and that kind of speaks towards a misunderstanding of what makes a competitive entertainment or a leisure entertainment space. That usually also speaks to individuals that maybe are hoping that the first facility will give them the direction of what they need to do. So you know, I can hear the arguments I've sat through them sometimes when singing for my supper, where the directors will bring everybody into the room and they say, what are we going to put into this facility? And I will have to churn up and say, well, we can't have this, we can't have that, and then someone else will say, well, we don't know. There's never been one of these in Huddersfield, for example, before and you go, I don't care if there hasn't been one in Huddersfield before. Putting too much in is putting too many spoonfuls of sugar into your tea.
Speaker 2:Yes, exactly, I mean you look at this. It looks like, literally, they went down an expo, a trade expo walkway and said we'll take one of those, we'll take one of those, we'll take one of those, and they just decided to put two lanes of everything they could possibly imagine into the space, or?
Speaker 5:their consultant was given a blank checkbook. If those things still a blank Amex card they have put too much into their bully base, they will find that their meal will be overpowering and they will, you know, speaking from personal experience and gut they will, in 24 months' time, start removing things and expanding things, because they'll find out that not everything there works, no matter if it's a good concept for argument's sake, the shooting next door to the dance, they may have to decide to pick one of those and then expand on that. These are the lessons learned from us old bunnies that have been in the sector a long time and we wish light a lot of luck with this process. But less is more in some cases. But anyway, moving on to other developments and to conclude this part of our coverage, monaco is known for its very expensive hotels, yachts, casinos and obviously Formula One racing, and it was interesting to see the announcement that Monaco last year would be getting a location-based entertainment facility, because the principality is controlled quite strictly.
Speaker 5:It is its own little countryieftom, stuck in the stuck, surrounded by france, and uh, it is a law unto itself. And uh, box 98 is a law unto itself. Uh, it threw its doors open, had its soft opening a couple of weeks ago and it's now officially open 4000 square. It is focused on a very strong electric go-karting course, as you would expect in a racing driven town, but it also includes arcades. It has a bowling capability and it has a sports bar and even karaoke and live performances had a very, very august opening, or soft opening. The Royal Family actually turned up for it and it looks like it is a reasonable location-based karting entertainment venue. But this one will be an interesting one to watch because it is in a very expensive nouveau riche environment, so it falls outside of the purview of the normal rules that we would govern an entertainment space by, but an interesting one. Even monaco will be. Uh, will be getting the uh location-based entertainment bug now I this one is.
Speaker 2:So I mean, it's not surprising that it's karting right and it does look like high speed, like carts, which is great. Um, it's not. It's not a short track, so that's also good. Um, but it is surprising to me that it's a random uh brand, this box 98 that no one's heard of, like why it wasn't not an f1 drive, like an f1 drive with an f1 arcade, like that seems to me to be such a better brand fit for monaco than a I don't think a brand would survive there.
Speaker 5:Uh, it's who you know, not what.
Speaker 2:You have that is that is true.
Speaker 5:It is who you know in that town so I assume that the individuals behind this concept are well connected. Uh, they have taken the best experience on, and I would argue that 60 of this business will be private hire. This will be used by the race course, uh, by the individuals around there, as the build up and during the racing season this place will be used for private events blowing off steam. I am looking forward to photographs of all of the f1 drivers zipping around on electric cars because, remember, most formula one, majority of formula one drivers have started in karting before they move on to, uh, their f1 series of vehicles. So again, uh, I I wasn't surprised that this wasn't branded, I'm just surprised that it got the green light and it has been developed so quickly. We will see how well it does. Moving to the shots and not kind of a surprise, they are on my wanted list of companies to keep an eye on.
Speaker 5:Luminarium's Chicago facility has been closed since January and it was confirmed that it was closed with a court order from the owners of the Navy Pier for damages due to the failure of Illuminarium to deliver what was promised initially. I'm not going to get into the ins and outs of the legal case there, but I can confirm that the Las Vegas, atlanta, the other three facilities are still operational. It is just the Chicago site at the moment that has closed. Trying to get comment from Illuminarium has not been forthcoming. I think we will be seeing the company going through some restructuring in the coming months, but again, we don't have any official line beyond. The Chicago facility is not open.
Speaker 5:Then we have a surprise closing. This is a traditional bowling facility. It's been going for 64 years. Well, you know, it really has established itself in the local community, but at the same time it hasn't really modernized itself. It is, you know, by all intents and purposes, a 1970s bowling environment. Well, surprise, surprise, it closed down and it would seem that the trust that is involved in that area has acquired the property. That is involved in that area has acquired the property and we don't know what they're going to do with it yet, whether it's going to be pulled down and turned into retail units, or if it's going to be turned into houses, or if one of the major bowling chains is going to turn up and give it a redevelopment that will blow its socks off. Whatever the reason, we are down a bowling facility in California.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this one is not surprising, given Danville. Danville, california, is in the East Bay, the Northeast Bay of the Bay Area, san Francisco area, so very, very high net worth individuals and families that live here in Danville. So very, very high net worth individuals and families that live here in Danville, and so not surprising at all to see it shut down, because those families are expecting and are attending much more immersive experiences, or just even bowling experiences that are just a better finish than what you would get at Danville Bowl. It is surprising, though, that somebody, like a Lucky Strike, didn't come through and pick this up and try to revitalize the brand with a new approach.
Speaker 5:I would feel that this was stored in Aspik a phrase meaning that it was kept as a kind of historical relic because the owners of the site felt that it's always been like this and we can't change it because that's what our audience wants. Forgetting that your audience may like it, but it doesn't mean that they're going to constantly come back and if you don't change, you die. And that is something that I'll be touching on in sound offs about when it is the right time to reinvest and redevelopment and future proof your facilities. But I get the feeling here, if this place is not going to be acquired by another bowling facility, then it is going. Its valuable real estate is going to be gobbled up. Then a very big surprise I was only talking about this back in January.
Speaker 5:The Ding's Fun Park was an unusual idea. It had taken over a warehouse-style environment and put in temporary attractions in a permanent home and it actually removed the museum-stroke attraction that had previously been at the Dingle's Farm facility and put in their fair. They'd removed the fairground museum and they'd put in permanent fairground attractions 50,000 square, so it wasn't a small space and it was all of the fairground attractions that you would expect, from bumper cars to ferris wheels, spinners and teeter-totters all of those ones. Anyway, the local media broke the news a couple of days ago that the concept is closing. They didn't really go into any detail, they used the standard coverall unforeseen circumstances.
Speaker 5:It could mean a myriad of reasons, and only operational for two months kind of makes you wonder whether they had the right funding behind it, whether the business plan was viable. And this was just a Hail Mary because they haven't even entered the season. They're just now entering the Easter season when they would be making their funding. They've had a negative response from the audience to what they've actually delivered. Again, it's difficult to say, but you know. Thank you for sharing the video, brandon. It does look kind of sad.
Speaker 2:It looks sad. It looks sad and unfortunately it's not a surprise when you look at video like this, both from the number of attendees there and also just the layout and the overall mix, and it's sad sad a bit of a wonker, but anyway then we have. By the way, is it now going to be? If something, if something is just sad, it's going to be a bit of a wonker.
Speaker 5:It saves me having to swear, so I can just call it a bit of a wonka. Okay, the Dolphin Company. I'm not sure how many of our watchers and listeners will be familiar with this large operation of what are marine parks, marine resorts, you know everything with an aquarium in it, that kind of thing. They have about 30 different kinds of marine theme park facilities over eight countries, as it says here. So they have ranges from the sea aquarium kind of experience all the way down to the water park experience. They filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection in March.
Speaker 5:They claim that they're going to be restructuring, but I think, as we've seen with the SeaWorld situation, it is very difficult to run aquarium-style business in the current market. It needs a rethink of how you present your aquarium, your marine life business, as the zoo industry is finding out. The zoological industry is finding out that they've had to totally change how they present their offering to the modern audience. And I'm not sure if Dolphin is going to restructure internally and then come up with a new business plan or if this is them positioning themselves to be acquired by another operation. Anyway, that is a rundown of the main developments to be acquired by another operation. Anyway, that is a rundown of the main developments.
Speaker 2:Anything to add, brandon? No, no, nothing to add. Just always sad to see some great establishments, and I should say presumably externally great establishments. We don't know what happens behind the scenes, but groups like the Dolphin Company and what you know what they've been doing. So I hope they can get through the Chapter 11 process and come out better on the other side.
Speaker 5:I'm sure that the park business, where they are viable, they will emerge successfully. Yeah, all right, anyway, so that's the end of this particular opening shot.
Speaker 1:See you in the next one. Data and customized marketing strategies to help brands like yours stand out. Radius can boost your foot traffic and build a loyal customer base. Plus, they're offering a complimentary local market analysis to show you exactly how they can help you grow. Curious, visit Radiusco and ask about your free market analysis. That's R-A-Y-D-I-U-S dot C-O all right.
Speaker 2:Well, that was a great open shut, kevin, so it was always a pleasure to talk through some of those things with you. And next up we have arcade corner with adam pratt and he's gonna take us through some impacts of tariffs and some of the latest things that he's doing in his arcade to address some of those things. Let's hear it from adam.
Speaker 4:Greetings everybody. It's Adam for Arcade Corner at the LBX Collective. Hope you've all been having a great spring so far and welcome to April. Finally, here, of course, where I'm at in Utah, it's not been warm at all yet so far. It's not been warm at all yet so far, had a little bit of rain and snow, but that's Utah, so it doesn't always become the most pleasant until maybe May, but anyways, got plenty to talk about for arcades this week.
Speaker 4:I had been thinking about more Amusement Expo follow-up, but there was some big news just the other day in the gaming world, and that would be the nintendo switch 2. Now, of course, the nintendo switch, which came out in 2017, has become one of the best-selling pieces of gaming equipment, one of the best-selling gaming consoles of all time. I can't remember if it surpassed the PlayStation 2, but if not, it's incredibly close, and so it's just been a phenomenon. And so finally, after eight years, nintendo has followed up with that with the Switch 2, which, of course, has been the talk of the gaming town, so to speak, been the talk of the gaming town, so to speak. Um, but I I know in the past, particularly like when the playstation 2 came out or the xbox 360, there was a lot of discussion in the arcade industry as to you know, is this going to kill us? Is this going to finish us off? And they didn't. I think that's been born out of the just the reality that fecs and arcade bars, and even retro style arcades free play arcades have all become a pretty big thing throughout the 2010s and into the 2020s, and so game consoles have not killed us off. Will the nintendo switch to do that? I don't think so either, just like the PlayStation 5 hasn't, or the Xbox Series S and X. And now, personally, as somebody who enjoys video games, no matter what form they come in, I'm pretty interested in the Switch 2.
Speaker 4:But, interestingly enough, there's been a pretty strong backlash from the community, a lot of even pretty strong nintendo fans pushing back on the pricing for the switch to, as it was announced that, coming around at 450 dollars, probably 500 or more if you get the game Mario Kart World, which they're saying is $80. Now, of course, the brand new games are what are often called AAA games, where these are video games that have millions and millions of dollars put into their development. I mean, the pricing has been pushing above $60 or wanting to push above $60 for a long time, and if you look at things with DLC packages, they oftentimes are well above $60. They can be $80 or $120 or something like that. The upcoming Grand Theft Auto 6 is supposed to be $100. And so it's not just Nintendo that has been pushing the prices of their home console games up, but pretty much everybody else, because the same inflationary pressures that have been affecting everybody who lives in the normal world economy, I guess you could say, or the main street economy, have affected them just as well and their employees.
Speaker 4:And so why I'm bringing this up in an arcade discussion is you know how often have you probably heard, if you operate an arcade, uh, that, oh, your prices are, you're so expensive, or arcade games are so expensive to play, uh. And of course, for some bizarre reason, uh, the ideas or the notions that all arcade games should cost exactly the same as they did 50 years ago doesn't make a lot of sense, because it's like good luck finding anything that's going to cost the same that it did 50 years ago. I mean, look at movies and where they've gone. But of course that still brings up a point, even particularly with movies movies is movie. Attendance has been down quite a bit, and when you look at people criticizing them, it's oftentimes because of not just the drop in quality of the films and that recent enormous flop for Disney Snow White, but also the pricing on films too. It's just there is a certain point where consumers aren't willing to pay for a certain experience.
Speaker 4:Now, in the arcade industry, what is that? I think it really depends on where you're at, because that's what I've noticed. Where I've operated two different locations before, I noticed that the tastes on pricing were different, and so, even though those locations were only 40 minutes apart from each other, there was still an effect there as far as what people were willing to pay for. In some instances, people were willing to pay more, say, to play a pinball machine, than they were at the other location, and so, unfortunately, that's something. If you don't pay a professional to come in and do the research or do the research yourself as to consumer pricing tastes as well as demographics of the general area. Obviously, if you're in a lower income area, then the chances of you getting away with a $5 charge per game is not probably going to work out versus a higher income area to work out versus a higher income area but, of course, the challenges of higher income areas. They don't often always go to certain entertainment facilities because they can afford to have all sorts of cool stuff at home, and so it becomes a big challenge depending on where you're at.
Speaker 4:But on top of all that, if you've been in the industry for a while myself, this will be the 18th year that I'll be operating an arcade. It's been maybe the 17th. I've seen ups and downs in the economy and the past five years have seen pretty strong inflationary pressures. The talk of the town this week in the amusement industry has been tariffs and the trade policies and such going on. I'm not here to argue about the politics of that. There's plenty of that all over Facebook and I guess if you really really want to get involved in that, go right for it. But I don't know what good that does In my personal opinion. I guess I could just leave it at. If the short-term pain of this causes long-term gains, then that's wiser than kicking cans down the road. That could result in other, more serious issues.
Speaker 4:But otherwise, how do you deal with increased costs? Because most of the stuff, particularly for redemption desks, comes out of China and the tariffs on China. I think they were something around 67%, something along those lines. Now I don't operate a redemption desk, so in that regard I guess it's a little hard for me to say what I would do in that instance, because I don't have to worry about those costs really going up. I do have a bulk vendor which I'm sure those will probably go up, so maybe I have to increase the cost on those by a quarter. But I'm sure 99% of you, if you are an operator, then you probably are in the opposite boat. So what do you do? But I think, just what game have you been playing with inflation? How have you dealt with that?
Speaker 4:Now, personally, I have not increased my prices. In fact I've used that as a part of my marketing to put into consumers' minds that I'm offering them a deal. Here's an example of an ad that I ran not too long ago in a local magazine inflation-proof fun, because I still have a bunch of classic games that I only still charge a quarter for. Now I know I had said earlier that you can't expect lots of things to still cost that, and I know that there's plenty of operators out there that will charge 50 cents for their classics, but for me where I've already paid the games off and it's really just, I guess, kind of covering the electricity. In some instances I've kept my prices on all my 1980s and my 90s games at 25 cents a play, and so I use that to promote the fact that I am offering a deal and that's worked out for me. Now have my retro games hauled in tons of cash? No, it's all remained pretty much the same.
Speaker 4:But sometimes, or what I often find with the arcade business, is the idea of indirect income, and this is something that I particularly see with pinball machines, because pinball machines by themselves are not moneymakers, at least for me. Even in both locations they just never did super well. They were great for tournaments, but if I sat down and calculated out what their ROI was, it was horrible. It was the worst thing out of the entire industry that you could pick, where it takes like eight to 10 years for a pinball machine to pay itself off. And it's getting worse because the pricing on pinball machines already, even though it's a domestic item but they use uh uh, foreign parts A lot of the time has been going up and up and up, and so what used to cost $5,400, say, six, seven years ago is now $8,000.
Speaker 4:Um, but the thing with pinball and the thing with retro games at least again that I've found is that this they will oftentimes bring in somebody from uh that's just walking by and is like, oh, I love pinball, I love Addams Family or whatever it is, and there's oftentimes somebody with them, or maybe, if they are by themselves, they'll play that one thing, but then they'll see something else in the arcade that they like Street Fighter II or the Walking Dead, walking Dead or Jurassic Park or something else, and so they end up spending perhaps more money on one of the other things that they see, but it was that other. It was that first item, the pinball machine or the retro game, that brought them in in the first place. This particularly works well with families because, say, if dad, who's got all the money, comes in and sees a pinball machine that they really want to play, the kids don't care, but the kids want to play something else. Most of the money that's being spent on my tokens is being spent indirectly on other things, but it was the pinball machine or was the retro game that brought that family in the first place, because the breadwinner, so to speak, or the check writer is the one that was enticed to come in in the first place, and so that's what I like to call indirect income. So you know, how are retro games or pinball machines or skeeball games or something else? Is that your indirect income? If so, then use it Again.
Speaker 4:I don't want to incentivize or say to anybody that you should cut everything down to the bone and risk going out of business. So if the costs from whether it's inflation or tariffs or whatever it is are getting too much and you have to raise prices, then you have to raise prices. But at the same time, keep in mind, you know you should live in the same economy as everybody else. What have you done? I don't like the phrase the customer's always right. I prefer the phrase put yourself in their shoes. And so you know what would bring you into your arcade if you did not own it or your business, and try and use that empathy to look at you know what deals would bring you in to your cage to make you spend money. Obviously, if you're charging five dollars a pop for every game, that's not going to. You have to put all your games on 25 cents either, but I'm just saying if you can afford to lower some costs on certain games or keep them the same, then I'd say, do so. But of course I understand that there are certain things, particularly with redemption toys, that you might not be able to do that with.
Speaker 4:But now, are there any games that you can buy that are under $10,000? Yes, and so at Amusement Expo we saw Alan 1, where they debuted their Missile Command Recharge, which is actually going to be at an event called Midwest Gaming Classic this weekend, or has been during this weekend. That is somewhere around $6,000. There's Golden Tee, there's Big Buck Of course you might already have those which are under that. There's the XR Arcadia, which I mentioned before, where the game cartridges that they have are anywhere between $800 to $2,000, just depending on the game. Of course you do have to get the cabinet first and that's going to be a few thousand dollars or several thousand dollars depending on who you buy it from, but still that should be under ten thousand dollars.
Speaker 4:There's other indie games, such as those by dsm arcade, where they made perfect poor, which I think is forty eight hundred dollars, and I saw that a friend mine will cox arcade for his route recently bought some games from them that were very affordable to do, and so you can find games themselves out there. I'm pretty sure you can find games in the or sorry equipment or toys. I should say that is also not going to be affected so harshly by price increases. Oh yeah, I'd also say the Papa Shot Elite, which debuted at Amusement Expo, which I think those are around $5,000. That's one that's on my own radar. So there are ways to get around it. Just like again, look at, analyze what you've been doing to deal with inflationary costs and see what you might need to adjust or keep it the same and find ways to give great deals to your customers. That's it for this week's arcade corner. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next week.
Speaker 2:All right, well, thank you, adam, for walking us through all of that. That was excellent. And so next up we have Guest Gab with Justin Michaels. I'm really excited for this. Justin Michaels has enormous amount of experience, which we'll cover a little bit here. I'll let him talk us through that. But he comes from Intercard. Currently was Redemption Plus, before that, and we're going to be. I'm excited to have him on as a recurring guest with a new segment that we'll be announcing here shortly. So, without further ado, let's hear from Justin at Intercard. All right, well, justin, welcome to the LVX Show man. Good to have you here, brandon thanks for having me.
Speaker 3:I'm glad we could get our schedule synced up. I know you've been busy. It's been trade show season.
Speaker 2:I know right, I've got a new little piece here. It's a little Mickey Mouse hat, because I was at the North America Summit with IAPA and one of the places we visited, and this is behind the scenes tours of the Mickey Mouse house.
Speaker 3:So anyway, we'll obviously talk more about that on the actual show. But, yeah, good to have you, man. So tell me a little bit about your background. Sure, so you know, currently I'm with Intercard. I've been with them for almost a year. It'll be a year in April.
Speaker 3:So before that I worked for Redemption Plus for 21 years. I think that's where you and I met originally, through Ron Hill and long relationship there. Before that I worked for a route operator for about five years in route operations and before that I grew up in my grandparents' family entertainment center. You know, as a kid it was, you know, kind of the intro of video with, you know, space Invaders and Pac-Man, and as a kid I just remembered falling in love with all of that. And then in the 90s working there as a manager. You know it was Mortal Kombat and NBA Jam and all of that. So I've really been a lifer. But you know, this transition from the redemption world, you know, for the last 21 years into cashless has been great and I know you know Scott and Linda, they're great people. Intercard is a great, great company, great products. It's really been a great fit.
Speaker 2:Yeah that's awesome. Well, so we're here on Guest, Gab, and I think one of the things I'd love to and just especially given your background and the enormous amount of expertise and experience you have on this side of the fence I'd love to maybe give me five tips on how to start a redemption program, or how to just make improvements to your redemption program if you're already running it.
Speaker 3:Sure. So you know, just in terms of arcade, and you know I kind of showed my age a little bit there with you know, growing up in the arcade in the 80s and 90s, but you know, back in the day it was all video games, you know you, you went to an out of home entertainment center to to play the greatest. You know video titles. And now my kids have VR headsets and tablets and all that. So the evolution of the arcade has really become about redemption, you know, you talk to the distributor partners and they'll they'll tell you in their game mixes it's all 70, 30, 80, 20% redemption, so that arcade is consistently. I was told over the years too that the arcade's the number one or number two attraction in the entire facility and then per square foot it's the most profitable. So it's really a no brainer. And one of the first questions I would always get is about space allocation. So do I have space enough to add an arcade and redemption? And so good, kind of back of the napkin figure if you're somebody, that's new in the research and development phase is, you know, 65, 70 square foot per game. So if you've got a thousand square feet you can do 15 games right. So in a smaller environment, you know a smaller counter would probably work better, but in a big box FEC we have 4,000 square feet you can allocate the 500, 600 square feet towards the store. So that's kind of a good place to start. Just do I have the space? How much space there's also self-contained. There's machines out there that you know you can. They'll handle the redemption part of it, no labor involved. They're great machines. But you know, the data has shown that you're always going to do more revenue when you can do a manned prize redemption center. So space is always something I'm asked about.
Speaker 3:And then it becomes about prize mix. You know, like what type of prizes do I want to have? I think the perception is that it's it's more of a kid thing. But if you go to some of these more modern, you know, out of home entertainment centers, it's really kind of something for everyone. I even heard stories over the years of like grandmas being regulars playing Wizard of Oz pushers and winning points to win prizes for their grandchildren for Christmas and birthdays and things like that. So really having something for everyone and then just the right ticket values. You know, over the years we saw that most of what was being redeemed was like 1,500 tickets and less.
Speaker 3:But that doesn't mean that high-end stuff isn't important, because redemption is more about psychology than it is retail. So the money is being made at the games and the merchandise is really the driver. It's what incentivizes gameplay. And, more importantly, you know repeat business. You want people saving points and coming back. So having that right price mix or prize mix is important.
Speaker 3:And then you know how you're marking up your products. So typically we see a lot of folks using what I call a two times markup If something's a dollar, a lot of folks using what I call a two times markup If something's a dollar, it's 200 tickets and with that markup and your game set up to pay out correctly, you're going to have a cost of sales, typically around 15 to 20% in redemption sales. So it's rare that we can be in a business where the guest is going to give you a buck and you give them 15, 20 cents back and they're really happy about it. When you execute it the right way, you know the other thing I would say. You know counter versus store. I have three small kids. Typically the last thing we do when we visit the local FEC is cash in our points and when we're at the counter. You know my daughter is going to want to see every little tattoo in the van, and so when you're in a more retail store environment we're able to self-serve and shop. So with that you get some efficiencies there. You get more, you know better throughput so you're able to turn people quicker during peak times. So I think that's important. Sometimes there's a log jam or a line at the counter. I don't like that, you know, especially when I've been in the family entertainment center for three hours and I'm ready to get out of there. So I've really seen the industry move more towards the store when you have the space to allocate towards it.
Speaker 3:Another thing is SKU count. You want to be strategic about that. I've gone into some of these stores and they look beautiful and there's stuff everywhere. But when you think about a Saturday, when you're busy during your peak times, I don't want guests having to look at this giant wall. The right amount of SKUs. Merchandise properly so folks can make quick decisions and I can turn them and make more money that way. I mean it's a lot like the menu at Cheesecake Factory. I like Cheesecake Factory, but if you've ever seen the menu. It's insane. Right Like it's, I can't make decisions. So there's a lot of psychology and things that go into that.
Speaker 3:The other thing I would say is you know, in those stores, you know, I always found that like 200 to 250 SKUs that sounds like a lot, but some of these stores have five, 600, 700,000 SKUs. You got to think about your staff too. You know, inventory is a big thing in the industry. You know having to count it, restock it, reorder it. So having the right SKU count is very important as well.
Speaker 3:And then merchandising strategy. You know, I see a lot of folks theming, which I think is good. You go to a retail store, any kind of retail environment, you know everything's organized in categories and that's because the consumer knows how to navigate their way through the store, find what they're looking for. So rather than a hodgepodge kind of strategy, I think theming and sections is another way to drive efficiencies for your guests, you know. And then there's the retail versus redemption psychology part of it, and I kind of mentioned this earlier. You're making your money at the games.
Speaker 3:The merchandise is really meant to incentivize folks. So you have high-end type items. You know it could be electronics, whatever it might be. You know, I would have customers tell me well, that doesn't move, well, just because it doesn't move doesn't mean that it's not driving revenue for you, because a guest can see something really cool that's really high end and at a high ticket value and they may come back over multiple times thinking, hey, I'm going to win that Xbox or whatever it is, but ultimately they cash in their tickets for something else. So where that didn't move, it did the psychological thing that it needed to do to drive the revenue with the guest. So those are kind of all the things that you have to think about in terms of retail versus redemption kind of thing. And then remote displays.
Speaker 2:You really want your player to always kind of have their mind on on the prize and kind of why they're playing, you know, and why they want to spend more money and come back yeah, yeah, I mean, I love the, the shifts the redemption store over the redemption counter that we've seen over the last probably 10 years or so, as we've been able to make those shifts, it does require, obviously, more square footage.
Speaker 2:Is there, you know? Do you have any suggestions or recommendations on general, maybe game floor layout in order to make maybe a little more room, because you don't want to necessarily take away the number of games on the floor to make room for your store. But at the same time, I totally agree, the store is a much more efficient way to get people through, um, and and also it just makes it easier for the guests as well, um than having to stand behind the counter and every you know, every little bucket has to come out and they can dig through and see everything where it's in the store environment. It's much more uh, it's not self-service, because they're still checking out, but it's it's much more they can browse before they make their decision.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, we're seeing, you know, like another point to just to kind of segue into your question that I thought of is sightlines and kind of where it's located. You know it was really Dave and Buster's. I would give them credit for kind of bringing the retail store concept to the industry. But if you remember the older DMV concept the store was way back in the back corner and if you see the newer concepts it's up front as you come into the arcade. So you really want your whatever it is store counter to be up front and center so the guests can see it as they enter the arcade and as they come out of it. But in terms of finding space in the cinema space, we're strong in the cinema space, the synergies and the B&Bs, the Santicos, santicos, and we saw this in bowling too. But you know, the cinema space is realizing that the standalone attraction of the movie theaters themselves is not a working model. So we're seeing them add a lot of amusements but they're removing you know, theater space to add arcade and redemption store. So they're finding space that way.
Speaker 3:In the bowling space I've seen, you know, pro shops converted. I I've seen, you know, pro shops converted. I've seen you know them find space other ways, like by removing lanes and things like that. So again, it just it kind of comes down to how many games you're going to have. Somebody with 10-15 games probably shouldn't do a store. You, you know, if you're getting up around 50, 60 games you should definitely do a store. But that's where you know companies like ours, some of these redemption companies, definitely the distributor partners and our consultant partners. You know they're going to help you find that space for sure. But you know it's the self-contained thing that I touched on earlier with. You know machines like PrizeHub and things like that. Those are great machines and it's allowed redemption to go into spaces like cruise ships and resorts and you know unattended spaces that that do a lot of revenue. But these, these types of businesses too, are finding space. To add, you know different types of redemption arcades.
Speaker 2:So yeah, yeah, no, that's awesome. Well, justin, thank you so much for joining us to uh, to walk us through. This is just going to be the first of many, so I'm looking forward to having you here again. And, um, yeah, this is a guest cab with Justin Michaels.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I appreciate it, brandon.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me on Take care industry and have been leading the way for over 30 years. Catch the system from Intercard, increase customer spending, guest satisfaction and boost revenues by up to 30%. Intercard is so proud to be serving the amusement industry and if you aren't already part of their global family of customers, they hope you will become one soon. All right, everybody. Well, that wraps up our LBX show for today, just to leave you with a little thing here. Remember, we've got the LBX Galaxy. This is our online community. You can find it at lbxgalaxycom or scan the QR code and get connected with other professionals in this industry. Absolutely worth hopping on there and digging around to see what we got there. So that is the LBX galaxy. We've got sound off 68 coming out with Kevin Williams this Tuesday, april 8th. Otherwise, that's a wrap for this week's LBX show. This is Brandon Wiley signing off. Stay tuned and keep kicking.
