Why Real Estate Agents Should NOT Carry Weapons for Self-Defence

There are misconceptions about self-defence tools… even dangers. And this applies to realtors in particular. 

Carrying such tools, like pepper spray or knives, can escalate situations and potentially put the realtor in more danger. The real self-defence tools are situational, environmental, and self-awareness. 

More than ever there’s a need for proper safety education and mindset. It’s about the before (preparation and prevention), rather than the after (reaction and response). 

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Transcript

Beth Andress (00:00):

She said to me, well, from now on I have pepper spray in my diaper bag. And I mean we'll get there, but you and I know that that's not going to help her.

Rob Andress (00:24):

Good morning, Beth. And it's nice to finally see you. I've been about 10 days since I've been able to actually see you and talk with you in person. And you know what? Today is a great day for me.

Beth Andress (00:40):

Hey Rob, welcome home. I know that it's a long way to travel, but I am hearing that you had a great time in Edmonton with the Ray members.

Rob Andress (00:50):

Yeah, spent a week in Edmonton with the Real Estate Association, or sorry, with the Realtors Association of Edmonton and got to meet some really fantastic members. We got to do a program, know thy Enemy, prospect or predator. And when I got back I was talking to you about one of the things that kind of came up when we were going through the presentation and part of our presentation just to kind of let you know, we talk openly about realtors who carry a, I'm going to call them tools of self-defense. And Beth and I have heard doing sessions with professionals that we've heard things that members carry door stops with them or

Beth Andress (01:53):

Let's take a run through some of the things that we've heard Rob, that realtors carry with them on their showing appointments in case they need to defend themselves.

Rob Andress (02:03):

Sure.

Beth Andress (02:05):

Perfume.

Rob Andress (02:09):

Perfume

Beth Andress (02:10):

Hairspray.

Rob Andress (02:11):

Yeah, that's another one.

Beth Andress (02:13):

Your turn.

Rob Andress (02:14):

Well heels. A broken high heel knives. And you know what?

Beth Andress (02:27):

Come on.

Rob Andress (02:28):

Men

Beth Andress (02:28):

That carry baseball bats to bring baseball bats with them.

Rob Andress (02:32):

Men's that carry baseball bats. Beth, we had even met a male realtor who tried to sell us on the fact of why it was important for realtors to be armed on appointments and this is in Canada.

Beth Andress (02:52):

And so now while you and I can make light of the things that they actually carry, the scary part is, and the reason that we're here is because realtors do face those risks on the job and they do encounter those fearful situations and they do feel the need to defend themselves.

Rob Andress (03:13):

And I want to talk today about that because there's a real big misconception about me carrying a tool of self-defense and what is going to happen if I have to deploy that tool? What is going to go down? And first let's take a look at kind of the psychology behind it because it's not just real estate professionals that we've come across who do this. We've come across a number of high school students who carry weapons into school. We've come across a number of women who for their own personal safety feel that it's a good thing for them to carry some kind of a self-defense tool.

Beth Andress (03:57):

Absolutely. I even have a friend who had a difficult encounter, let's just say it's something that scared her when she was carrying her baby to the car from Walmart. And she said to me, well, from now on I have pepper spray in my diaper bag. And I mean we'll get there, but you and I know that that's not going to help her.

Rob Andress (04:18):

No, not at all. So what's the psychology? Why do we do it? We do it. And I'm just going to break down to the nuts and bolts of it. We see these incredible situations occur on different forms of media, television, social media, online internet, and we see people who use tools of self-defense and it looks so easy to be able to deliver a method when using one of these tools that we are going to be safe 100% of the time. I know of a guy who is on social media, he professes to be some kind of a security professional on disarming individuals with weapons. We see images of people standing with guns to a victim's head and the victim through some kind of cool martial arts sort of nonsense sort of stuff ends up disarming this weapon and turning it against the individual. So as a society we see this stuff and we think, Hey, you know what? If I carry that, I can do that. I can perform that act and actually make myself safer by carrying this tool. And Beth, you know what? I know you don't like getting heavy into what your professional field is, but you are much more in tune with certain weapons than I am. And one of those is pepper spray. So let's talk about it because

Beth Andress (06:06):

It's a common thing. We probably have three or four realtors at every one of our in-person session that one of them will say, well what about pepper spray? Or I carry pepper spray and you see everybody else's kind of nodding along with, so let's talk about pepper spray. Pepper spray is something that you have to be very accurate in the delivery of. So you must point that stream at your subject or your victim's eyes in order to achieve the effect that you're looking for, which is to disable your assailant. So if that very fine stream that comes out of that can of spray hits them in the cheek or hits them on the chin or the shoulder and not the eyes, you do not have the desired effect. You may impair them, you may disturb them a little bit, but you are certainly going to upset them, make them mad and understand that they are now going to have to deal with you in a different way than maybe they thought they were going to. The other thing is that when you deploy pepper spray in an enclosed environment, pepper spray is a substance that clouds. So you are going to yourself be affected by that spray as well. And again, you may not be debilitated to the point of going to the ground and not being able to move, but your eyes are going to water, your senses are going to be affected and you are not going to be able to perform what you need to perform in order to remove yourself from that situation.

(07:50):

Number three, you cannot walk through a showing, carrying a can of pepper spray just in case somebody bothers you or touches you the wrong way or something like that. You don't walk through the parking lot with pepper spray in your hand going, okay, stand back everybody. I have pepper spray and I'll use it if I have to. You just don't function like that. If you think you're going to have the time to dig your little canister of pepper spray out of your purse or your diaper bag or your whatever it is you have with you and be able to position it correctly in your hand with the stream facing away from you, not towards you and actually have it function while your adrenaline is surging and your hands are shaking, it doesn't happen that way. And that's one of the things that we really face when we talk about these encounters and people that think they can effectively defend themselves with a weapon. You don't know how your body is going to react in that time if you've never experienced it before and thinking that you are like that girl in the movies or the guy in the movies and you can just whip that tool out, that weapon out and deploy it and run away, it really doesn't happen like that Rob.

Rob Andress (09:09):

Well, and on top of that, and I want to touch base on some other things as well, but on top of that, one of the things I think that is such a misunderstanding to the real estate professional as well is to industry leaders within the real estate profession is how the attacks happen. The majority of all of these attacks are ambush style. They come at you through the use of deception and the attack unfolds in such a fast, quick manner that believing that you can deploy something or at that moment, even after that stun factor hits you and you start thinking, oh yeah, I have this. I have to try and get it. It becomes almost an impossibility. And you know what it is that I'm even going to now in include some of our American friends who do carry concealed weapons on showings. The reality is because of how these attacks happen, very rarely. And when I say that I truly am saying probably 98, 90 9% of the attacks that happen against the real estate professional are done on an ambush style base and defending it, defending it with a tool. It's a falsity just didn't happen.

Beth Andress (10:42):

It really is. And I'm just going to backtrack for a second here and give everybody a reminder. Pepper spray is illegal to carry in Canada as a tool of self-defense. So let's just be really clear on that. When I tell people that, they say, well, I have bear spray from Canadian tire and I have to remind them that bear spray is legal to use to defend against a bear, not against a human. So I know people say I would rather go to court, I would rather be charged with assault than be dead on the ground. And that's a hundred percent true. I understand that. But we just have to understand that those tools are illegal. And when we talk about self-defense, we always have to remember the moral, the legal and the ethical concepts behind self-defense too.

(11:37):

And when we talk about, let's talk about, I mean it is legal to carry a gun in some states and we see some range programs for female realtors that want to learn how to carry the gun. And I strongly encourage anybody that does carry to please take the proper lessons and learn how to use that tool. But also you must understand that you cannot pull that gun out of your purse and brandish it, start waving it around at somebody and say, leave me alone. I have a gun, or I'll shoot you because let me tell you those weapons, they're not made to be a deterrent when you just show someone you have it. Weapons are made to be used and felt. And unless you're prepared to use that weapon weapon and understand that you are about to take somebody's life, do you have that in you? Can you defend yourself with that gun knowing that you are going to potentially take somebody's life?

Rob Andress (12:44):

Well, and I don't mean to interrupt you, but it's not only guns. We meet members in Canada who carry knives and the same factor is in play. Good people. If you have the opportunity to actually pull the tool, and as Beth said, and I'm going to be really clear, weapons aren't meant to be seen. They're meant to be felt end of story. And if you carry a knife and you believe that I can pull my knife, show my knife to someone and scare them, you are so gravely wrong. I don't want to get into the legalities of that, but somebody pulls a knife on me in some kind of disagreement or issue with inside of an enclosed environment, a hole, and they pull a knife on me. What does that give me the right to do?

Beth Andress (13:54):

Well, that's the thing. Now you are the one that is going to defend yourself. I mean that turns the tables right

Rob Andress (14:03):

To the fullest extent of the law, to the worst absolute situation a knife has been pulled. Maybe it was pulled in self-defense. I view this now as somebody is going to intentionally take my life that elevates the risk of everything from a legal perspective to even the predator now being able to claim 100% self-defense. They pulled a knife, they were going to kill me. I had no other choice but to take the knife and use it against them.

Beth Andress (14:43):

And that brings us to weapons retention. If you think that somebody who is has chosen you a victim, if you think that they're not stronger than you, faster than you, more determined than you in the beginning in that moment and you pull out your weapon, they are going to have that weapon. They will take that weapon from you. Unless you are trained in weapons retention, which not very many people are robbed, just normal civilians are not trained in weapons retention at all. On top of that, we have to know, you have to know how to use that weapon. If you carry a knife for self-defense, what do you plan to do with it? Are you going to stab somebody in the shoulder and say, there, that'll teach you to leave me alone. I bet that hurt, didn't it? And think that they're going to go running scared. It doesn't work that way. You need to know how to use that weapon to save your life. And that's the bottom line if you're carrying a weapon.

Rob Andress (15:49):

And the same thing covers for all other tools. And I'm going to go off topic a little bit here. I've had martial artists that I've known in the past teach women's self-defense programs and tell them to carry perfume in their purse and spray it in the eyes of the predator. Give me a frigging, come on. What is that? You know what one, if someone has made a plan to attack you, they're going to be hands on you so quick. And what's in the bottom of your purse? The bear spray, the pepper spray, the stiletto heel that you broke, it's in the bottom of your person. And I don't want to say that you're any different than any other woman, Beth, but baby, I've seen your purse. And you know what? Trying to get to the bottom of what's in your purse, I don't even understand what the philosophy of that is because it just isn't going to happen, right?

Beth Andress (16:55):

You're a hundred percent right, Rob. It just isn't going to happen. You cannot just say, wait right there while I plow through all these receipts and all this stuff in my purse and find my pepper spray or my knife or my whatever, my hairspray and my doorstop, and then you're going to be sorry once I get that in my hand. It doesn't work that way.

Rob Andress (17:14):

And when tools of self-defense are introduced into conflict, and Beth and I, you or Beth, you and I both know a man who is a friend, very extremely fit. His profession is one of rescuing people, and he's a big guy. He's like six two, probably going 2 20, 2 25, a big boy. And he ended up getting into a conflict. And this was ego. It was 100% ego. Ended up putting hands on an individual who was inside of his car and the individual was high on crack and pulled him out of his car. And this physical confrontation happened and this great big guy ended up having it handed to him by somebody who was in the mid to low five foot ranges, but a tool got introduced, a steel chair, a our friends partner ended up grabbing a steel chair after witnessing what was going on and our friend getting hurt and introduced a steel foldable chair into the conflict and hit this man with it.

(18:41):

He broke his disengagement against our friend, grabbed the steel chair and beat her with it, and then turned and beat him with the steel chair. That's what happens when good people introduce tools of self-defense in conflicts, people, when these things start to happen, many people lose the ability of all our social understandings, our moral acceptable understandings, our legal acceptable understandings, and they go with the window and they truly become very destructive in nature. And when you introduce these tools to people who are a threat to you, please understand that's what happens to them. All their moral, social and legal obligations go right out the window and they will take that tool and use it against you and some of the other things. I guess the point of our talk today is just to really bring a reality realization to you and the risk that you are elevating on your own by carrying these tools.

(20:01):

When Beth and I do instructions with real estate boards and associations across the country, we don't follow a standard phone and call for the red file, make sure your phone's charged all. We don't do that because it doesn't make any difference. But what we do talk about in depth are three areas of awareness that are so important for the member, and one of those is situational awareness. The other one is environmental awareness and understanding where you were, what you were working in and who were those around you. And the most important of all self, self-awareness. And we talk often about ego confusing ability. My ego makes me believe I can do this, I could hurt someone, I could take someone's life with a tool or with whatever. And self-awareness is so important for us not to be confused about what we can do, but have a real true understanding of who we are and what we are capable of, especially within those areas where the other two forms of awareness come in. Situational awareness, environmental awareness and self-awareness are key for the real estate professional.

Beth Andress (21:35):

And so what we're saying is that the best tool for you to carry in your toolbox is proper safety, education, proper mindset, understanding your risks, all that stuff that we have been bringing to this real estate industry table for the last five or six years. Now, Rob, it's so important to have that education underneath you and really the understanding of what these risks present as and why you're at risk. We need to work on changing the before instead of dealing with the after. That's what we need to do. We need to change the before for this industry and the good people that work in this industry and deserve to go do their job without feeling fearful every day.

Rob Andress (22:30):

And thank you for sharing that because that's so true. If you can identify and change the before, there is no after we understand how to deal with that and how to remove ourself from that. You know what, Beth, I think this was a great talk and this was something that I've been wanting to bring out for some time because we always hear about it about things that members carry for.

Beth Andress (23:03):

Yeah. And again, it really tells the story of how some of even the leaders in our industry are feeling as they're going out to work every day and doing their job and thinking, well, I better take this with me just in case something happens. I don't think that too many other professions feel that way as they head out the door to do their job, unless public safety, unless that's their job. So, hey, and as we talked, I got a really great idea for next time. Let's talk about cell phones, safety apps and that kind of thing. Let's have a real good discussion about safety apps. Cell phones, nine one one.

Rob Andress (23:48):

You're going to let me loose on safety

Beth Andress (23:50):

Apps? I'm going to. I'm absolutely going to, for sure.

Rob Andress (23:52):

Awesome. Alright, well, hey, let's do that. What I want to thank you for listening to us today, and if you found the information that we have to share important, vital, and relevant to you, please leave us a rating. It's important that we get our ratings, and if this information was good enough for you and you think someone else that can benefit with them or from it, please share the link out to them as well. Beth, I want thank you again for being here and it's so good to be back home. And I want to thank Doug, our producer, for putting on an amazing podcast for us from Stories and Strategies. Man,

Beth Andress (24:34):

Doug is really patient with us, isn't he? Rob?

Rob Andress (24:36):

He's been amazing, especially lately. And you know what? I hope every one of the real estate professionals across this Canada or this country and the US Food Historic Podcast, please be safe. Stop hearing tools of self-defense and please have a very, very prosper stay and we'll catch you all real soon.