Bonus Episode: Are courses for a Chief of Staff Role really worth it? with Annie Croner

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Learning & Development for a Chief of Staff Role

Join us in another bonus episode where we join forces to answer our listener question with the amazing Annie Croner, CEO & Founder of Whole Assistant and EA Trainer & Coach. 
Annie hosts the Whole Assistant Podcast among many other valuable offerings to the administrative profession.  Connect with Annie on LinkedIn HERE and read more about her on our website HERE   

In this episode,  we answer our listener question on the hot topic of inching towards that Chief of Staff role. You will discover that certifications can be more than just a decorative line on your resume/CV,  they’re stepping stones for personal and professional growth.

Listener question
Hi CRODIE: I want to shoot for a CoS position from an EA position of 12 years experience. There are a lot of options out there for L&D courses for CoS - are any of these worthwhile? Is there just 1 that really packs a punch? Do they matter? Do they count? Will they help me get a foot in the door? Please help

Craig, Jodie and Annie share thoughts and discuss insights on levelling up your career, whether you're aiming for a Chief of Staff role or want to become a more strategic business partner. Get ready to be empowered and love your role!
 
Annie also breaks down the key ingredients for executive assistants to seamlessly transition into strategic roles, highlighting the value of internal projects and the impact of social proof on your career path.


Value Bombs

"Do they count? Do chief of staff certifications count? Yes, but only in terms of your professional development. I don't think a chief of staff qualification is going to get you a role." - Annie Croner

"I love this role and I have a passion for it. You want to have that drive and that passion to be able to retain that information." - Craig Bryson

"Education is key, personal development, professional development is key. There is not going to be a magic pill for this chief of staff role." - Jodie Mears

Check out The Whole Assistant Podcast HERE for more information and inspiration! 

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

This episode was brought to you by Autograph Events, our sponsor. Welcome to the Quotey Files bonus episodes and our first lineup is Annie Kroner. Thank you, Annie, for joining us. We're so excited to be able to share the knowledge on this YouTube channel so great. Thank you for joining us.

Speaker 2: 0:29

Yeah, thank you, annie. Please do tell us all about yourself, what it is you're currently doing and how you align with the assistant community.

Speaker 3: 0:38

Thank you guys so much for having me. I love collaborations like this and we're going to go into that in another avenue at some point. But my name is Annie Kroner, as Jodi and Craig just said, and I am an executive assistant coach. So I help executive assistants unlock their badassery and really level up and become more strategic business partners. So I do this through coaching. I run a group program. I have one-on-one clients as well. Then I also do this through training and then via my podcast. So Croaty Files I'm a big fan of. My podcast is called the Whole Assistant Podcast, so please check it out wherever you listen. And so that's a bit about me. I am a career executive assistant over 20 years in the industry. I had this crazy opportunity to go into business full-time for myself a year ago. I did not see myself actually going down that path, but here we are, so I'm loving it. I'm loving empowering assistants. I'm loving helping assistants um really come into their power at and into their roles fully and um to love their roles as well excellent.

Speaker 2: 1:48

That's really interesting that you you've you've just landed in this position just a year ago and how quickly things can progress through the power of networking, collaboration and and here we are. Yeah, so we have as you know, we have the crodi files has an initiative to get the listeners involved and we call that hi crodi. So it's a little bit like a um, a chat show agony aunt. At the pa show recently we were described as the doctor's surgery for executive assistants, which I love that um. So we have had literally thousands of different questions phrased in different ways, but generally they're kind of grouped into topics. So we invited you, annie, to come on and chat through one of our listener questions, and this is a real hot topic still at the moment. It's been going around for maybe a year and we're just wondering if you can help us unpack this question with your expertise and insights. So here's the question from a listener anonymous, hi crodi.

Speaker 2: 2:59

I want to shoot for a chief of staff position from an e position of 12 years experience. There are a lot of options out there for learning and development courses for chief of staff. Are any of these worthwhile? Is there just one that really packs a punch? Do they matter? Do they count? Will they help me get a foot in the door? Please help Annie. What do you think?

Speaker 3: 3:27

So I actually get this question in terms of different iterations, in terms of different certifications out there for executive assistants, and now there's this whole other realm of chief of staff that we're adding into that. Of course, there are chief of staff development programs and things like that, and there are a couple I would recommend development programs and things like that, and there are a couple I would recommend. However, my question back would be what is the purpose of taking a chief of staff course, of taking a chief of staff certification, anything like that? So my philosophy I'll just give you my general philosophy on certifications in general, and then we can like dive into the chief of staff role, because we could really unpack this. This could be a very long episode, but I know we're wanting to keep it brief. So, with any certification, I'm a big fan of certification as long as you're looking at it as a learning and development opportunity for growth, your own personal growth. Now, this goes for coaching certifications as well. I'm a certified life coach, and so I will say that it's completely possible to be an effective coach without any coaching certification 100% possible and so I think the same is true for executive assistants in their roles and chiefs of staff in their role as well.

Speaker 3: 4:46

You do not need any certification in order to be an effective chief of staff. Nor do you need a certification in order to be an executive assistant. There are instances where certification can help. Project management is one of those. So if you want to move from an EA position to a project management position and the PMP certification is required for the role that you're applying for, that is one very specific instance where having a certification is helpful, because it's actually a requirement of that job posting.

Speaker 3: 5:16

Now, even there, most project management roles do not require certification. So if you're hanging your hat on getting a job and you're hanging your hat on the certification helping you land a job, I would say that's not the motivation that I would support in certification. The motivation, in my mind, should always be linked back to your personal growth and whether or not you want to, to your personal growth and whether or not you want to unpack or discover something about the position or figure out where your skill set may be lacking so you can fill in some gaps, that sort of thing. So do they count? Do, do. Do chief of staff certifications count? Yes, but only in terms of your professional development. I don't think a chief of staff qualification is going to get you a role no, and it's important to yeah.

Speaker 2: 6:11

It's important to just pause there and reflect on the process, because we talk about adding value and showcasing your skills. If you're shooting for that position as an EA and you've had 12 years experience, my question would also be along the lines of you know, what do you want out of it in terms of are you just shooting for the chief of staff role because you want personal growth and you just want to get from you know A to Z quickly? Or what steps have you put in place to get you in the door without those certifications? So what social proof? What internal proof? What projects have you been on recently internally, maybe in your organisation, if it's an internal promotion, or what value can you showcase? Maybe at the interview stage to say I don't have a certification, but here are the examples of the projects that I've been able to deliver that have turned x around for the organization and put in the actual meat on the bones, as it were, to your skill set and how that translates to your experience to then be qualified to apply for that chief of staff role.

Speaker 2: 7:30

I think we're moving away, particularly in the UK. I'm seeing a lot more job ads removing that need for university degree educated. It's not necessary. And if you have worked on your like we've just learned recently, craig, your personal branding, you know what value are you bringing to the role, how do you show up, how do you speak up, how do you lead? Are you an executive assistant? Or are you at the other end, where you've moved through that and you're into the strategic executive assistant, going into a more high level role position and leading internal projects? Because ultimately, that's what you're going to be doing in a chief of staff role is really managing the internal business goals, liaising directly with the chief, the ceo, the direct c-suite, so there might be a step in between. I'm thinking with this what do you think, craig?

Speaker 1: 8:33

yeah, I think so too, and I also find that you have to have the passion for the role. I mean, people sometimes just want to get in and get out and get their paycheck, but I love this role and I have a passion for it. So, going for those education and your courses that you're going, you want to have that drive and that passion to be able to retain that information. If you're just going to do it, just because you want it on your CV and you just want the, you know the letters behind your name, I think it's it's going to be difficult. What do you think, annie?

Speaker 3: 9:05

I definitely think that's true. I think that doing things for vanity, like out of vanity, you know it kind of like a vanity metric, having that COS behind our, those initials behind our name. And I was a very high level executive assistant in my last position, to the point where I was operating as a chief of staff but my title was executive assistant. In my last position, to the point where I was operating as a chief of staff but my title was executive assistant, because we were a small organization and I was supporting one high-level executive, my managing partner, and the other managing partners also had support staff, but they worked differently with their executives, right? So executive assistant made sense for the organization.

Speaker 3: 9:44

Now I was doing the work of a chief of staff, 100% for sure. I was like running this guy's entire world. So I think you really have to break it down, like, are you going after chief of staff for the title or do you actually want to sink your teeth into those higher level projects? Do you actually want to do the work and does the title matter to you? And look, I'm all about us getting recognition, I'm all about us having a title that suits our role, but at the end of the day I'd be more concerned about job fulfillment than I would about it.

Speaker 2: 10:20

So where are we going to point this person then? So I think, generally, what we're saying is education is key, personal development, professional development is key, but there is not going to be a magic pill for this chief of staff role, particularly when it means different things in different organisations, across different sectors, across different countries. It can mean I would look more into the job description of that COS position. Does it sound like the next natural step for you compared to what you're currently doing? Does it seem way off? If it is way off, great. So what are the steps you need to put in place the next couple of years to get there? But there isn't.

Speaker 2: 11:09

I wouldn't recommend one single learning and development course. I would recommend that whatever you choose to seek out and pay for it encompasses many things, you know commercial awareness, project management, what else? Financial awareness, all those things that matter with it. Having a great business acumen in general, being able to lead, being able to communicate effectively, being able to deliver your projects on time and being prepared I guess the main thing to step away from the traditional EA responsibilities. I don't know how Craig would feel about not booking a restaurant ever again. I love doing that.

Speaker 1: 11:58

I like doing that as well, but I think it also comes with experience. I think the longer you're in the position, the more reaction you are with being a chief of staff with the EAs. You know what they are going through, what the trials and tribulations they are going through, because you were there and you grew from that into the position that you're in. So, yeah, I would like to be a chief of staff, but I do like being an EA, and so something needs to drive me to be able to want to step to that next level. But at the moment I'm happy where I am.

Speaker 3: 12:37

Yeah, yeah, and it is a. It is kind of a mindset shift too, like if you're so used to being in the weeds and doing all the tactical to do's and all of that like it's going to be a huge mindset shift to show up more strategically Like I walk my clients through this all the time in their executive assistant roles, let alone COS, you know. So that's, that's a real challenge too. So then, who do you have to become in order to be a COS as well? Like, what are you going to have to let go of? And then, what are you also going to have to onboard? You're going to have to onboard a whole new belief system about yourself. You're going to have to onboard a whole new strategic way of thinking. You're going to have to let go of your executive's calendar and give that to the EA, and that's going to be hard. It's going to be hard.

Speaker 2: 13:21

Yeah, that's great. That's excellent advice. I hope we've answered our listener question to the best of our abilities. It is a very vague question. It is a very vague question. It's not a straightforward answer because you really need to get into the nitty gritty of that job description you're shooting for and make it work for you. But in the meantime, don't give up with your learning and development. Seek out professional and personal growth.

Speaker 1: 13:58

The two must align and keep learning, keep absorbing information and let us know how you get on.