What If There is Nothing Wrong With You w/ Dr. Fred Moss

Something weird happens when we struggle: we don’t just feel pain, we start assuming the pain means we’re defective. I sit down with returning guest Dr. Fred, a psychiatrist with decades in the mental health field, to challenge that reflex and to explore a simpler, tougher, more humane idea: maybe there’s nothing wrong with you. We talk about anxiety, sadness, fear, and suffering as real parts of the human condition, and why validating that reality can open the door to compassion without watering anything down.

From there, we dig into the modern mental health narrative and the risks of over-identifying with a diagnosis. Dr. Fred explains how labels can become “alphabet soup” that hardens into identity, and how the hunt for confirmation can send people into a rabbit hole of treatments that sometimes keep the story going instead of resolving it. The point isn’t to shame anyone for seeking help; it’s to regain choice, agency, and a wider view of what healing can look like.

Then we take a left turn that ends up making perfect sense: cats. We break down what cats teach us about presence, resilience, rest, play, and authenticity, plus a story about a missing cat who returns like a streetwise zen master. We also connect the dots to creativity and truth telling: how Dr. Fred writes, how AI can support the writing process without replacing the author, and why “finding your true voice” is really about removing the layers that block it.

If this conversation hits you, subscribe to Mind Force, share it with someone who needs a softer starting point, and leave a review so more people can find it. What’s one label, mask, or story you’re ready to loosen your grip on?

Transcript

Welcome Back And Big Themes

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome back to the show. I'm your host, Nick Shear, and this is Mind Force, a podcast sponsored by the three L's Love, Life, and Learning. Today we have a first for the show. Today's episode is round two with a returning guest from episode 25 to 111. What a wild ride it's been. This time though, we're talking about transforming the global narrative around mental health. We're exploring the surprising lessons cats can teach us about life, presence, and authenticity. And we're diving into what it means to find and express your truest voice. At a quick glance, these topics might seem unrelated, but at the end of this conversation, I think you'll see they're deeply connected. This conversation is about healing without losing your humanity. Well, Fred, welcome back to the show. Take a moment to say hello.

SPEAKER_00 0:49

Well, thank you, Nate. What an honor. I didn't realize I was somehow a first returning guest. It's uh so cool to be back again on the other side of whatever journey has taken place since episode 25. I feel just totally privileged and humbled. And so I'm eager to see or hear or be with whatever discussion we take on together.

SPEAKER_01 1:09

Yeah, it's just so crazy. My scripts are different, the structure is different. You just live and learn as you go along. You live in a different country.

SPEAKER_00 1:16

You're like you're in a different country this time than where we met the first time.

SPEAKER_01 1:21

Yeah, I think the first one is in Florida, not in the United Kingdom. Just kind of go wherever the government tells me to go. So well, Fred, since our last conversation, what's been capturing your attention the most?

SPEAKER_00 1:32

Well, for sure, the thing that's been capturing my attention the most is the completion of my third book. And my third book isn't just a book, it's actually a memoir. It's actually a very thick memoir. It's a memoir that goes not thick in size, thick in discovery. It's a memory that goes back into every single thing that I can remember about my

Writing A Memoir With AI Tools

SPEAKER_00 1:50

life unfolding since the very day I was born moving forward. And I created it with love and and courage and went down deep into all sorts of, you know, rabbit holes and all sorts of uh sinkholes and all sorts of beautiful gold mines. And I did so with the help of uh Claude Code and and so really actually getting it to a space where I was writing every word if people were concerned it's Claude like writing for me. No, the answer is absolutely no, absolutely positively not. Am I using Claude Code to write? It's like saying, is this pen writing for you? Yeah, yeah, the pen is right. Yeah, it's sort of, it's kind of yeah, the pen is doing the writing. And it's not that Claude didn't write this thing. I wrote this thing, and it's freaking awesome. It's so, so good. And let me tell you the experience that is I realized this morning, just moments ago, sitting in the living room with my wife wife, as I describe you this experience, you'll see how ridiculous it is. So I bring in the ideas, it it or some version of it sort of asked me to go deeper. I go deeper, I discover, I find the rocks, I find the things that are blocking me, I find the things I'm eager to explore, I find the things that I want to throw in that aren't pertinent, or the things that I throw in that I don't throw in that would have been pertinent. I find all those things, you know? And my wife, who has been following me and has just eagle eyes since the very day that we met, she's just able to remember details about me that far exceed anything that I can remember. When she says it, it resonates, but it's like, oh, where the hell did how did you I how do you recall everything about my life? And she's she does. So she's a great resource. And so, and along with Claude, sort of like the three of us going so hard at this thing. So I wrote the whole thing. It's been spot checked hundreds of times. You know, it's been proofed a couple times, it's been edited professionally a few times. It's ready to go. Today it gets submitted for July 15th. It's called Welcome to Humanity, of course. Welcome to Humanity, a psychiatrist memoir and case against the mental health system. And it's written word for word with sheer honesty and beauty. How do I know? Because of the experience I've been holding out here for you. Here it is. The book was written by me and Claude with Alexandra watching. The book is word for word exactly what I wanted to say, and is completely and totally as honest and real and fred as I could make it. That's awesome. But here's the thing I Claude Code can create anything into full and honest audible. And I have worked with 11 labs, so I have a deep professional voice that is me. Like it says it's not, in fact, it gets it's not a rendition of me. When you do this special thing, it's actually, in fact, my voice being replicated. And so this book got served up to the audible so that I'm reading this book out loud, some version of the audible version of the book. And I'm having the book read to me right now by me for the man who wrote the book is reading me the story about me. For the first time, I'm reading it like, you know, sentence by sentence, piece piece by piece, and hearing little intricate details that maybe could be shifted. So in real time, I'm dropping that into the machine, and we're changing sentences just slightly, or ideas that were mega mega ideas all at the same time while I am reading me my life story that I just wrote.

SPEAKER_01 5:23

That's wild. Dude, that's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 5:26

Yeah, and I get to put my stamp of honesty, approval, and reality onto every single sentence because I was there. I'm I'm the I'm the one. You know, it's it's a very cool experience, of course.

SPEAKER_01 5:40

That's awesome. Well, yeah, it's great to hear what you've been working on. And for listeners who may be hearing you for the first time, Fred, what mission continues to drive your work today? What would you say? What was the question again, Nate? For listeners who may be hearing you for the first time, what mission continues to drive you today?

SPEAKER_00 5:55

Yeah, I think the biggest mission that's here today, you know, I've been a psychiatrist for a lot of years, about 37 years, and I've been in the mental health field 46 years, and I've really been a human for 68

The Mission: Maybe You’re Okay

SPEAKER_00 6:05

years, and I've been watching and learning and being with this idea of life, love, and learning for every single day of my very life. And what's driving me today is the same thing in some ways that was driving me back when I was two in my playpen, which is just being of a positive influence and you know, making a difference in the world in a way that moves the needle forward or helps other people move the needle forward is what always been what I've been interested in. And taking a mega look at what life has to offer and what is it that it is describes the human condition. So the primary line that I carry around is something like there may be nothing wrong with you. There really may be nothing wrong with you at all. And that's a really good thing to take on because when you start realizing there may be nothing wrong with you, that being sad, being miserable, being confused, being even in pain, suffering, being afraid, all of those things, that doesn't mean there's nothing wrong with you. That means you're having an uncomfortable experience. That's all. It's part of the human condition. It's so okay. It's so okay. It's just on the smorgasboard of life. And so when we start getting that and realizing there's nothing wrong with us, there's no sign of mental health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society. That's what Krishna Murphy said. There's no sign of mental health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society. And, you know, we're living in a hazy society. It's uh we don't blame a log for burning in the fire. And that's what we're doing. We're living in a fire. And it's okay to have all sorts of emotions, feelings, concerns, regrets, and circumstances or experiences occur in this life. And when we can allow ourselves to have the compassion to have everything from soup to nuts, from miserable to beautiful, that uh puts us all on the same ground because it does imply indeed, of course, something that people have trouble metabolizing, which is there may be nothing wrong with him. There may be nothing wrong with her. There may be nothing wrong with them. There may be nothing wrong with anyone at all. And we're all finding our way to stumble, bumble, and tumble and fumble through this life that we're trying to understand without having a recipe book or an instruction manual.

SPEAKER_01 8:06

Yeah, I definitely think it should be okay to not be okay. We've lived through COVID and equino economic disaster and wars and geez, the amount of things that we've witnessed over these 50, 60 years. I mean, I know there was the Great Depression and other things before, but geez, we've lived through a whole lot of things. And sometimes that's just the way it is. You have the lows before you have the highs. Well, Fred, before we get too much deeper, I wanted to see if you had a question for me.

SPEAKER_00 8:33

A question for Nate. Let's see. Yeah, Nate, what what uh what drives you forward? What have you been doing since I last talked to you?

SPEAKER_01 8:41

Oh shoot. So I moved to the United Kingdom. I've been out here for uh about two years now, third year of the show, I think. And mine is really just trying to take care of others, which I know is is kind of cheesy. But I think that the way that we really get through this life is together and connection. Because I feel like that question comes up quite a bit on the show. Like, what's the biggest theme or what's the you know, biggest connection that you've seen throughout the different episodes, and now over a hundred. And I've seen a lot on journaling and meditating and quiet time, and those are absolutely important. But if you look at, I think the trend that kind of connects all of them is human connection. And there's so many things that are free. I think a lot of times we want this Herculean effort that's so big, and I feel like those are good too. But I feel like a lot of them are the smaller things, you know. It's like pass the good forward. You pay for someone's coffee, you hold the door open, you smile at someone. It's those things that kind of pass things along. And like you said, we're all trying to get through this crazy life, you know, for parents or whatever. There's no guidebooks, you're trying your best, and you know, trying to suck a little bit less than the day before is always a good motto. But yeah, just really human connection to try to get people because I've noticed that people silo really bad and they feel like, oh, I'm the only one. It's like eight billion people in the world. You're you're not the only one. The chances of that are super unlikely. There's someone else, find someone else. Whenever you find someone else that's in your situation, you always feel a whole lot better. So human connection is what I'm all about.

SPEAKER_00 10:08

Awesome, man. Well, that's of course at the center of who I am. Human connection is at the heart of all healing. That's the essence, that's the motto, that's the main frame of welcome to humanity. And so we start really looking at the purpose of life is to indeed pre-create human connection through conversation, creativity, communication, and you know, just a collective compassion for each other and really just have the opportunity to connect with another. And there is no stronger influence that causes instantaneous healing and curing than actually connecting with another person. No medicines, no diet, nothing, nothing's ever been created that's more powerful than that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:45

There's so many times I've heard on the show from the guests, I thought I was the only one. No, not the only one. And instantly, like you said, feel better. Well, Freddy's.

SPEAKER_00 10:53

You know what's interesting though is what they are not, is they are not the first one to think that they're only that they're the only one. That's what's really important, is that every one of us thinks we're the only one. That's how we're built. That's what ego construction is all about. We think we're the only one, and that's just a common human influence as well. So it's not a matter of it not us being the only one. We as a as a species, as a as a culture, as a unified race, as a uh called the human race, each and every one of us is pretty sure that we're different than everybody else. And so the thinking that you're different than everybody else is actually a hallmark of being a human.

SPEAKER_01 11:32

I think we got a lot more in common than we do apart. Well, we'll dive into the first pillar, Frank, and yours is transforming the narrative about mental health globally. So you spent many years, you said, I think 37 years challenging conventional conversations around mental health. What part of the current narrative concerns you the most?

SPEAKER_00 11:52

Concerns me the most. I think it's that people really think there's something wrong with them, and that somehow that if they get a label, if they get something that

How Labels Become A Rabbit Hole

SPEAKER_00 12:00

explains that that's somehow relief. And then going down the slide of the treatments that are associated with the label actually creates a worsening of the symptoms frequently enough and perpetuates the condition that the whole treatment was marketed to deal with. And so, in some ways, you come in with a concern that this might be permanent or this might be a condition. I may have a defective or a deficiency or of a syndrome or an illness or a condition. And then you get the stamp of approval when you go into the so-called authority who gives you an acronym, you know, some sort of funny acronym of three or four alphabet soup letters, and now you walk around with that condition thinking that's who you are, and in that process begin treatments that actually perpetuate that thought line. So it's a rabbit hole of the no return, and it's very difficult to get out of that hole once you're in it. So, my biggest concern, how would I, what is my hope? My hope is that less people start thinking that they're like believing their thought that there's something wrong with them. Because when there's something wrong with you, what are you supposed to do? That we've already been programmed. When there's something wrong with you, you go to a doctor. You go to a doctor. And so when you go to a doctor, you get confirmation that there's something wrong with you. And then the whole cascade begins. Psychiatry is the only field I know of, the only subspecialty I know of that the client, if you tell the client that they're, that they're okay, they actually get pissed. It's very interesting. That doesn't happen in other fields. But in psychiatry, people come in knowing that they have a condition. They just want to know what it is. Even if they, even they just feel it. So now they they don't want to know if they have a condition, because no is not an answer they want to hear. So if I let you know that all of your uh all of your discomfort is just part of being a normal human, you'd be like, why did I come to you? I'm like, well, because that's what you needed to hear. Like, it's okay. It's okay. Life is hard, life is very hard. And I don't mean to diminish the pain. I hope that is really, you know, sometimes this gets misinterpreted as perhaps I'm diminishing the pain or putting it back on you. No, what I'm saying is labeling the pain doesn't diminish it for real. All it is is a pain that comes from a human condition and it doesn't make it less painful. It's very painful. It's hard to be human, dude. It's hard to be a human. And let's just respect that. And when we respect that, that the pain is very real, but doesn't necessarily translate into an alphabet soup diagnosis that allows us to start from a solid ground where a connection becomes much more possible between each other.

SPEAKER_01 14:36

So when you have people and you tell them it's part of the human condition and they're kind of frustrated that they didn't get the answer they wanted, how do you kind of redirect or do they come back and kind of realize that it was helpful? Or what's kind of that outcome? What does that look like?

SPEAKER_00 14:51

No, if people want to believe that there's something wrong with them and they they don't want me to actually suggest to them that there isn't, then they can they can easily go next door to the next psychiatrist who'll be glad to give them a diagnosis. It's no problem at all. And if you really need to believe that there's something wrong with you, you by all means go ahead and do that. It's fine. It's no problem. I it's not my job to convince you that there's not something wrong with you. It's okay. And so it isn't a matter of how do I deal with it. If we go the route that I'm going in this conversation, where we just kind of ease into the idea that maybe just maybe, the first word of this whole thing is maybe. So maybe there's nothing wrong with you, is a really important piece because once we give that people, then I can decrease this drop into what you called frustration. I it isn't a peak. There's no peak. There's no like, I thought there was something wrong with me and it didn't. Now you told me there isn't, and I'm frustrated and I'm going next door. Okay. Okay. There's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with that either. It's quite okay. If you really need to be confirmed that you have XYZ diagnosis and that you wouldn't even consider the possibility that you don't, then that's okay. You're just being you and finding a way through your com through this life of ours. So if you need to know you have PTSD or ADHD or a major depression or a bipolar disorder or a narcissistic personality disorder, you're on the spectrum, a blah, blah, blah. Okay, no problem. It's really no problem at all. I'm not, this conversation is more aiming to the very real possibility, very real possibility that there's nothing wrong with you in the idea of the log burning in the fire or in the idea of Krishna Murphy's quote of, you know, it's no sign of mental health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society, then those things hold some water for me. And I'm willing to have the conversation with people who I otherwise would think are just like massively wrong. Like there's I'm what about that person who thinks that about that? Where how did they get to that about that? Does that mean there's something wrong with them? No, it only means that through my very limited point of view, I think that person is outside of the circle that I call correct. That's all a diagnosis is, is you land outside of the circle of the diagnostician's comfort zone. That's all that is.

SPEAKER_01 17:00

It's interesting how it like kind of confirms itself, like you were saying. A million percent. You know, if they don't feel it, then they're just gonna keep kind of going until they get the answer they want. And maybe they just need to be okay with realizing that there's a possibility there's nothing wrong at all.

SPEAKER_00 17:14

Well, I again you I I'm only nitpicking here, but you said maybe they need to be okay. They don't need to do anything. You can do this any way you want. If you want to be uncomfortable, if you want to labor yourself as being less than a whole and complete human being and then walk through the world like that, if that's serving a purpose for you one way or another, even if it like, no, no, no, the doctor told me I got a condition. Okay, okay. It's it truly is okay. More power to you. And I'm not kidding. I I'm not here to argue that point. I'm here to tell you that it's possible that maybe, just maybe, there might be nothing wrong with you.

SPEAKER_01 17:47

Yeah, that's good. Fred, what gives you hope that the global conversation is moving in a healthier direction?

SPEAKER_00 17:53

Oh my goodness, what a wild question this is. A little bit slant. What gives me hope in the positive direction of the future of like our existence? Is that what the question is? Something like this? Oh, yeah. Okay. All right, let me capture that one. So we've made it this far. That's what gives me hope.

Hope In A World That Feels Fragile

SPEAKER_00 18:10

I don't have much in bigger than that. Look, I there are so many reasons to be concerned about an upcoming beyond imagination calamity of some nature, far beyond what you could ever have expla expected or explained, coming around the corner. That's really, really interesting because that is also inherent in the human condition and has always existed as a concern, no matter whether it was a Stone Age or the Space Age. It doesn't really matter. Humans have always been concerned. That's why the sky is falling had such a following. We are so certain that the end of the universe is coming around the corner. And maybe it is, by the way. Look, this might be the last conversation either of us ever have. It could really happen. We both know that that's not outside the range of at least conceivable.

SPEAKER_01 19:06

You gotta be right at some point, right?

SPEAKER_00 19:08

Yeah, uh broken clock is right twice a day, right? You got that. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 19:13

That's funny. Okay, Fred. We'll transition to your second pillar, which is how cats are our best teachers. So this might be the most unique pillar I've ever had on the show. What can t uh cats teach us that often that humans often miss?

unknown 19:28

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_00 19:29

So, in reading my book or having my book read to me this morning for chapter uh 18 and

Cats, Resilience, And Presence

SPEAKER_00 19:35

19 as we buzz through this on our way to chapter 29. The the launching phase of Desposito, Valentino, and Winston was discussed in these chapters just moments ago and how we picked them up and why they're here. And not only that, they were Valentino was just lounged in the middle of the living room while we're listening, and Valent and uh Desposito was on the couch behind Alexandra, and then Winston was eating and whining inside of the back porch and uh or the deck and the uh and the food. And so the three cats were kind of buzzing around the house. There were the three cats. How do they teach us? I honestly have never, ever, ever seen a creature that is more well equipped to handle life than a cat. They play, they rest, they forgive, they're beautiful, they know about love, they know about fun, they know about uh amusement, they can, they take care of themselves, they keep themselves clean, they keep themselves ready, they're athletes beyond belief. Like, you know, Winston, Winston can jump like he's not a special cat because cats, most cats can do this. The other Desposito and Winston can both do this, Valentino, not so much, is jump onto the ledge on the back of a deck. You know, it's about eight eight body heights. It's like us jumping onto a top of a building, and he lands on that thing perfectly without touching anything, and now is walking on the two by four that is the deck side. You know what I mean? You know, and it doesn't even look like anything until you realize, what the hell just happened? You know, and then or realizing that he has to jump over this to get to that. So, what is it that look, he's not teaching me how to be a gymnast. That's not what I'm talking about. What I'm talking about is his capacity to be with all things and to, you know, to be so insanely graceful and grateful and know how to rest, know how to play, know how to work, know how to create, just know how to interrelate with each other. Winston was gone at three weeks ago. Winston left the house. I left the door open when I was taking out the garbage and would kind of come back, and all three are outside looking at me like, bro, we are so out of here. Have a good day. And they just like chatter. Like, okay, okay, I guess that's how it's gonna go today. And Valentino and Desposito eventually came back. Desposito's pretty soon. Valentino took a few hours and they came back. They wanted uh maybe they wanted cat litter, maybe they wanted food. I don't know, whatever they wanted. And didn't come back. And then he didn't come back in the afternoon. And then the night came and he still didn't come back. And he's been gone one night, one night, once in the past. He didn't come back for a night. And I'm like, okay, I'm imagining he's got scared by a coyote or maybe some gangster, feral, cat scared him or something. And then he'll be, we'll see him in the morning because he'll be desperate. And morning comes and he's not back. I'm like, whoa, Winston. What the hell? And, you know, and then we go the rest of the day and Winston still doesn't come back. He's never gone this far. It's the rest of the day. I'm like, Winston, what what what I guess you've been like, we start believing that there's only it starts being only a couple explanations for why Winston hasn't returned. And uh, you know, the calamity is certainly one of them. Like, you know, he's he's roadkill or he's coyote food or whatever he is. And so we start thinking that, and then we start thinking, well, it'll be okay with two cats. Everything will be fine, you know. And then another night goes by and Winston doesn't come back and that night either. And I'm sitting right here, and I could show, I can't, I don't want to turn my desktop, but I could show you there's a window right here that looks out to the front of my house. The next morning, I'm on a podcast, just like this, and I look out the window, and here comes my freaking cat, a cause of glass, like nothing's happening, like it's all good, just coming home, house things. I'm interested, you know, interested in getting a can of food. And uh he comes scampering up to the front deck, the front door, and we open it up. He comes in, he rests for a little bit, eats a little bit, and he's not any worse for the wear. And the dude is a dude. He's so good. He learned some skills. You wonder, what did he eat? You know, did he eat a bird? Like, what the hell happened? Like, where did you learn? And he's picked up some habits. So now, for instance, the last couple days, we've watched Winston. You know, obviously litter is a thing with cats, like you gotta keep that thing clean or at least respectable, or your cats will make you pay. And uh Winston decided to use the planter outside on the um on the deck for his new litter box because uh that's what he learned was he was in the hood, you know. So he learned street urchin nonsense that that has him actually pawing into the planter and and peeing in there instead of on a box. Because they're so, you know, they're so resilient and they're so innovative and they're so flexible, and they're so beautiful. And, you know, they're they're just amazing. I I love love all three of them. I don't even know which one I love the most. Winston, sorta. So we always ask this question, which because one, they have three different personalities, and like Valentino is more of a shaman, and Winston is more of a like a playful street cat, like sketchy, a little more sketchy. And Desposito's like an inspector general. He's watches every he knows everything. When something moves just an inch, he'll come and he'll see that. And so, you know, just like Winston earned the name 34 early on because not because of Herschel Walker, but because of I think Charles Barkley might be 34 too. Anyways, uh, is because when asked who does your favorite, it was 33, 33, 33, and that only adds up to 99, which means that there's 1% dangling out here, and who should it go? And it goes to Winston. So that's how he got to be 34.

SPEAKER_01 25:17

Well, that's awesome. A question I wanted to ask you earlier, as you were talking about the book, and since we're here talking about the cats and topics, like I have a lot of people I've heard like, I'd love to write a book, but then they never do and they never start. And so you had these like pretty interesting topics and things like that. If someone was like, eh, I'd like to write write a book, like do you start with an outline? You talked a little bit about Claude, but how do you get like the framework for the book to begin with?

SPEAKER_00 25:43

Well, that's a really good question,

How To Start Writing Your Book

SPEAKER_00 25:45

too. And so I gotta, you gotta get something. This book here, this book of my memoirs, this book of 68 years taken down to the as deep in the ground as it can be, and then flowing as a thread of one life and how I got to be who I got to be, along with the manifesto about my concerns about mental health. Getting that all in is something that's been brewing for one way or another, I'd say for like 20 years. When I read my book, when I write my book, it's gonna look like this. You know, that's what it's been. So this is a culmination of a long, of, of a really, a long, a many-year intention or dream. How to write a basic book. I think that there's you know, or a book of something else that you're interested in, maybe your memoirs. I think I can really, I would people who are interested in what I'm saying, like the super excitement of having you actually read your book that you wrote about your life to you is freaking cool, dude. It's so good. It's so good. It's like the most therapeutic thing I've ever done. Yeah, I've been I've been a I've been in psychoanalysis on the other side. I I have laid on a couch four times a week for nine years. I I've done all that. And and I've had a lot of, you know, obviously lots of influence inside of growth and development courses. I've been a growth and development junkie. I've been in, you know, landmark education or Tony Robbins. I've been I've been deep in all those things before. And I've really worked hard. Spiritual learnings, studying the Torah or studying the the Dharma or the Iching or human design or Ginkies or, you know, there's so many things out there that promise to move your world forward. And maybe they all did. Maybe they all did and actually left me at a place where I can do this thing that I'm doing these days about looking at my life with my eyes open. I I this is like the coolest shit I've ever done.

SPEAKER_01 27:30

So for advice for people, did you kind of jot down chapter one, chapter two? You said it took yeah over 20 years or whatnot, but how do you start with that very?

SPEAKER_00 27:40

I kind of deflected. Here's what I think I would do. Either if you're a journal, a journaler, just write. Just write. Just go ahead and write anything. You don't have to write about, I'm gonna create a Dick and Jane novel, or I'm gonna create a a Buddhist instruction book, or I'm gonna create a book about how to lose weight. You don't have to, you don't have to do all that. What you have to do is discover through reality, through courageous reality, let's say um like radical authenticity, you know, like what your deal is. And you already, it's a matter of rediscovering it. So it's already here. You don't have to look out there for your deal, but your deal is not out there. Your deal has been with you the whole time. It's still with you, it's not going anywhere, it's here. But we get really caught up in going out there to find out what our deal is. No, actually, your deal is right here. It's all it's all good. It's been here the whole time. It hasn't left, it doesn't even know how to leave. It's right here. So when we actually find our true voice, or when we actually explore what that really is, we might get some ideas, and maybe with the help of the uh virtual machinery, that these days we do have that as a backup. And we feed that stuff into them. And in that possibility, they might ask really interesting questions. They, they being this LLMs or whatever you're working with, might ask you really important questions that lead you down some alleyways that you didn't even know you were interested in or could write about. Where are you an expert, or where are you a curious inspiration, or what is it that is floating your boat, or what is it that you can speak to that people would be moved by? Or maybe you write a book that you hope nobody reads. That's another, you know, do that. They they just write it so they like a almost like a diary or a journal where you write the book and it isn't really meant for anybody else's eyes. That's a little bit of a rare reason to actually write a book because a journal serves that purpose. So normally when you write a book, you're getting an idea that it's going to be released and people are going to learn who you who what it is that you said. So for me, for instance, with Ms. Memoir, there's so many intricate details to this thing that are fascinating as hell. Completely fascinating. I'm like, that was me. Oh, yeah, that's me. Like that's so fascinating. And there's intimate and intricate aspects to the book that when anyone reads this book, it will a hundred percent alter to a truer degree what they thought of me before they read the book. Like, I'm giving you an invitation to see my guts, to be with my true and honest whole person. And once that's done, then how you get to see me or deal with me. And if there's gonna be pieces of you like, dude, are you you actually you got arrested? Wait, wait, dude, you dropped out twice? Wait, you have two kids or four kids? Wait, you've been all over the world? Wait, you're in you love Israel? What like all that stuff that's in there? My brothers and my education and medical school and my experience as a doctor, and it some of that stuff is gonna be tweaked. It's meant to tweak you. It's meant to be like, oh yeah, that's that's gonna hit the audience hard. We just came up with one just now between Alex and I that was such an epiphany. It was a mega epiphany that put together chapter three with chapter 20, and like it drew an arc that we hadn't seen when I wrote the original, but it just happened when listening to it. And like chapter 20 is an answer to what happened in chapter three. And so all I did was dictate that into Claude, and now the book recognizes it. It's so good.

SPEAKER_01 31:05

Huh. That's interesting. Yeah, some really good advice on that. I think some people can start writing some books, and I think it's a perfect transition to our third pillar. You're talking about being radically authentic. So the final pillar is finding your truest voice. So, why do so many people struggle to speak with their authentic voice?

SPEAKER_00 31:25

Well, I did I did reference this a couple minutes ago, and indeed it is, in fact, the second book I wrote. It's called Find Your True Voice, and uh that could be found at findyourtruvoicebook.com and you get

Finding And Speaking Your True Voice

SPEAKER_00 31:35

it for free, just shipping and handling. So it'd be my pleasure to send that to you or to your listeners. Uh or be absolutely. So find your true voice. What is it? Where are you gonna look? Are you gonna look out there? You think I'm gonna say you look out there? No, of course not. No, you're not looking out there for your true voice. But that's what we do, you see. We look we look out there to become a person like the person we think is a cool person, or like we think the person who has something together. We become a person that we're not in order to protect the person that we are. Like we actually pursue pretending to be a person that we're not because we're afraid to be the person that we are, because then maybe we'll be a disruptor, or maybe we'll be dismissed, or maybe we'll be disregarded, or maybe we'll be thrown off the island altogether. And so we don't we're really afraid to bring that true and honest core, tender underbelly forward. And that's really interesting because if we don't do that, if we present ourselves as someone we're not, we're incapable, we can be certain that we're not gonna have a partnership, we're not gonna have a connection. It's sort of like having a cord and a and a socket. And if we don't like if if the socket is here and we keep going over here, we're not gonna be able to create a circuit. We're gonna have to put the circuit together from where we really are. So by cleaning up the things that are preventing us from being who we really are, we create the appearance or the emergence of our human frequency, right? That it's sort of like a tuning fork in the mud and the wet cobwebs and the rust and the dirt and the yuck. We wash that off, and now we start getting some true and honest human frequency being being expressed. And in that process, all of a sudden, me and you have a set, I'm landing on the frequency that's there for you. Even if you have a bunch of muck over your frequency, you still have a receivable, you know, a receptor for the human frequency. So one of the things to do to find your true voice is to begin to identify and then wash away the things that we have put there to block it from being expressed normally. And we learned that very early in school. You know, when we're five years old, and maybe even before, but at least it gets confirmed in school. When you're five and six years old, and you go to school and you begin to express yourself or be imaginative, or, you know, I was a real I talked a lot. Imagine that. I talked a lot when I was in elementary school. I I talked a lot. I had these two brothers who taught me how to be very inquisitive. They were 10 and 14 years older than me. And so they gave me all the tools and I was precocious. I knew shit that none of my none of my peers knew. And and I just talked, I just talked all the time. And uh the teacher, like there's no teacher who forgot having Fred as a student. No way, no way. That didn't happen. And through it in elementary school, it's like, oh yeah, all we'd have to say is my first name, and they'd say Freddie, Freddie Moss. I'd be like, yep, that's it. And it wasn't, it wasn't um it wasn't sanctioned. It wasn't the way the open conversation, a true and honest discourse was not what school was about, right? Instead, it was sit down, be quiet, do as I say, like I say, and then we'll pass you to the next to the next level. But and if you don't, we're gonna send you to the principal and get you fixed before you come back so that in fact you can shut up and listen because that's the purpose of school. It's not the purpose of education to tell somebody to shut up and listen. That's only a very small part of it. What's here is to experience life. And if you really want to learn life, then allow the person to be as close to themselves as possible and explore and imagine the things that they're going to explore and imagine, because that gives them the opportunity to really learn experientially. And there's no there's no learning that's more powerful than experience. Remembering and like, you know, jotting it down or having remembering acronyms. Well, that's one way to get a good test score, but it doesn't translate to learning.

SPEAKER_01 35:30

Yeah, that makes sense. So that's uh finding your truest voice. So we've done the three pillars, Fred. I'd like to try to bring all three of the things we talked about today. So I've noticed a lot of people wear masks like you said, and try to like look or appear a certain way. Can you kind of walk us through like where that develops or why we like emulate, like why aren't we just true? Wouldn't that just be easier to be true? Can you kind of walk us through wearing masks to look a certain way?

SPEAKER_00 35:59

Well, we've

Masks, School, And Real Conversation

SPEAKER_00 36:00

already touched on it, and it's a great question. Thanks for asking. But, you know, yeah, it's we're naturally concerned that we're going to cause more damage. And it's going, you know, with our soul exposed, that's somehow being disregarded or dismissed or rejected or embarrassed or humiliated or diminished in some way would hurt more if I bring you my real self. So instead we put on a veneer. We put on a veneer that actually protects us from having the experience of being rejected or dismissed. We, if we act like that kind of person, then we think we'll get that kind of respect or that people will give us that kind of room or allow us to be who we are. If we, you know, it's reached a point, Nate, where some of people, and me included, unfortunately, but it's also true with almost all every human, actually sometimes say things that even they don't believe.

SPEAKER_01 36:49

Yeah. I think we do it all the time.

SPEAKER_00 36:51

Take a take a moment. Isn't that take a moment?

SPEAKER_01 36:55

Yeah, I had a guest on uh another one. He was talking about masks as well, and somebody would come around and like say something. I forgot what the reference was. It's like, oh, does anyone want to drink? And like you just say yeah. And like, I don't even want to drink, but like I'm so conditioned to say like I do, that I just say yeah before I've even thought about it was what he was talking about. It's interesting because I thought of situations where it's like that. You answer the question, you're like, wait, do I even no, I don't even want that. But like I don't feel like I have to.

SPEAKER_00 37:21

Not only I do I not want it, but I don't even think that which I just said. Like I not even aligned. I didn't even, you know, like it's the most ludicrous, bizarre, absurd, preposterous strategy I've ever heard is to say something you don't mean. But we do it all the time. We do it all the time. And it's a in so when you ask, boy, how did it get developed? Where here's where it got developed. Back in the when we were five, back in school, you know, we started doing things that we didn't know that we really didn't want, you know, sitting down, being quiet, and looking at a blackboard while a teacher teaches things that you're deeply uninterested in is not a great way to live life. It just isn't. It just isn't. It's not the highest quality way to live life. It's been programmed to us that you got to do that in order to advance. And you're talking to somebody who's been who did a little bit of schooling, of course. I, you know, I I ultimately had 26 years in school. So I know a little bit about school. And uh and I hated, you know, I I I I disrespected the whole point of school. I skipped uh 200 times in 11th grade. I dropped out of college twice. I, you know, I didn't expect school to actually teach me uh that which I needed to know in order to be an effective human being. What school did is it was kind of a hurdle or an obstacle. It was a challenge to uh get through. And, you know, most of what I learned in medical school has nothing to do with being a doctor at all. Not even a little. Like, not even a little, not even one iota. Because medical school doesn't teach you how to be with people. It does that's that's not what happens. And being with people is so critical. Sitting in a hard chair watching a professor with a very large accent teach something that you're not curious about or not even interested in, and not even able to understand while there's a summer day going on in the background, or if you know, beautiful day going on, or a beautiful girl over there, or a beautiful beach over there, or a beautiful activity over there, when that's happening, that is not a way to learn how to be with people, bro. So it's not taught, it's just a little bit of programming along the way. Well, it's I think the key thing here is to get that the thing that we have here, the biggest challenge and and the one that always that is almost always sort of elusive is this idea of learning how to be with people. You know, this week we went to a dinner, we went to a a dinner, what what do you call it? Like a hosted dinner, you know, like a dinner at that. Like a group of people got together for dinner. And uh it was amazing to be with real people. Like it was amazing that I wasn't with rectangles. It was like, oh yeah, it was really interesting. And I realized that my skills have become a little bit more watered down, or it feels a little bit more challenging to start a conversation because uh now there's things that we can't talk about. Like things that we need to talk about in order to deal with the world as it is can't be talked about because we're afraid to bring up particular topics because we might actually hurt somebody, or we might actually offend somebody, or we might actually be dismissed. So we don't even talk about the things that are taking up our time when we're not with people, which is super interesting because there's a very serious disjoint between what we're thinking about all day long and then what we're capable of talking about when we're with another person.

SPEAKER_01 40:28

That's interesting. Yeah. Well, I think we need to try to keep it a little bit more real. They say you can't talk about religions and politics and things like that, but maybe we do need to, if that's what's running around.

SPEAKER_00 40:39

If we're gonna deal with it, if we're gonna deal with it ever, because if we don't deal with it, I mean, I hate to say this, I say it each time I say it, and I it is what I believe. If we don't deal with it with conversations with people who are diametrically opposed to what we think about things, and do so in a respectful way that can possibly move the needle forward, if we don't get to that level of evolution and maturity, bro, shit's done. That's it. Put a fork in it, it's over. That's what's required to move anything. And if we're so terrified that we can't do that, it's just a short matter of time.

SPEAKER_01 41:20

That'll be about the end. Well, thank you, Frank, for coming out. It's always a pleasure. Thank you for bringing your energy, wisdom, and unique perspective back to Mind Force. Before we wrap up, where can listeners connect and follow your work?

SPEAKER_00 41:33

Okay, so there's a few different places. Someone called me recently and told me that maybe one of the best sites they had ever seen was that website that I apparently have. Like I was like, Oh, that's uh that's cool. Whoisdrfred.com

Where To Find Fred And Closing

SPEAKER_00 41:46

is a very cool website. So you can get that's my speaker-based website. It's cool. I have a retreat coming up in uh September, and so that's the welcome to humanity retreat.com. That's exciting, calling healers together and helping people learn how to both receive and give. And uh we're all most of us uh leaders are deeply interested in giving and we forgot how to receive. So there's that. And I uh have uh a couple, a couple websites, but I also hang out in um so Dr. Fred360, DR Fred360 is another one, also a slick site, and you can find me there and hit the contact button. You can get a discovery call with me. How can I be of help, even if it's just to connect with you? I've got my book, the Welcome to Humanity Book.com. That's that's of course front and center. Uh now I'm dude, I'm so excited about this thing. It's so it's so good. And uh and I hope it moves people. And it's like this whole life was lived so that I could actually get that whole thing on paper. And I I feel very honored to have been to have a life where I could write a memoir, listen to it, and be okay with it. It's like really cool.

SPEAKER_01 42:51

That's awesome. Yeah, and on Audible, it sounds like you get to listen to it or read it, whichever way is best for you.

SPEAKER_00 42:56

Not only on Audible, on Audible as read by Pro Fred.

SPEAKER_01 43:00

That's right. By Fred. Well, to everyone listening, pay attention to your voice, pay attention to what feels true, and maybe pay a little more attention to the animals around you. I love you all. See ya.